You Are Wrong About BR Green
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- You have probably heard people refer to that dark green colour worn by British Railways locomotives, be they steam, diesel or electric, as "Brunswick Green". However, that is neither the colour worn by the BR locomotives nor the often attributed Great Western Railway, who wore Chrome Green.
But why ARE those BR locomotives a drab green, anyway?
SOURCES AND CREDIT
Photograph of a Great Western Railway 'Rover' - Public Domain, this file was provided to Wikimedia Commons by the Bulgarian Archives State Agency as part of a cooperation project. The Bulgarian Archives State Agency provides images, which are public domain. For attribution/citation of the source, Bulgarian Archives State Agency, please use the identification numbers of the document's fonds, inventory, archival unit and sheet, BASA-3K-7-518-16. commons.wikime...
Photograph of the York station pilot in North Eastern Railway Green by shipley43 - www.flickr.com..., CC BY 2.0, commons.wikime...
Website sources:
www.heritagera...
www.gwsr.com/k...
Literary sources:
'Railway Liveries: BR Steam 1948-1968' by Brian Haresnape, revised by Colin Boocock, published by Ian Allan
LINKS
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Twitter - / teawithcaramel1
Outro music: Kevin MacLeod - Fiddles McGinty
(Fiddles McGinty by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommon...
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Channel icon by Dean Walker - / lookitstrainart
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#BritishRailways
GWR Green was officially called Middle Crome Green, BR Green was Middle Bronze Green. BR paint supplier T&R Williamson of Malton still supply the original colours used by BR to preservation.
The Brunswick Green myth was mostly due to Airfix in the 1960s advising modellers to use Humbrol #3 Brunswick Green for their City of Truro, Evening Star and Biggin Hill plastic kits (Airfix owned Humbrol). Brunswick Green, aka British Racing Green contains Prussian Blue in the mix.
You know, I still prefer the older green liveries to the BR ones, but I have to say. BR green, whatever its real technical name, isn’t as ugly as I used to think. I think the real problem is models haven’t captured it well, at least historically. It is always been depicted as too washed out. It had only been in the last few years we have seen really accurate liveries.
I think "wheelie bin green" is the technical name
I don’t think the issue is that BR green is ugly (which it is by no means), but that it’s just drab, desaturated, and dark compared to most colours that preceded it. It certainly doesn’t strike the eye like express blue, Garter blue, apple green, or crimson, and that just leaves people feeling underwhelmed.
I always thought the odd experimental BR liveries felt like the type of colors you'd see in Thomas
I think... that's probably why they're painted that way in Thomas.
@@trainknut i dont think thats the case. i mean, the colors in thomas are from all the way back in 1945/before british railways.
NWR blue is Caledonian sky blue, the “official” (Awdry dubbed it as) Thomas has that colour. The green is obviously LNER Apple green. The red that James has though is interpretable. In the illustrations, it appears to be the same as the buffer beam red, which would make it either Vermillion or Carmine, but it very well could be LMS Crimson lake, or if James really want to be fancy, Madder Ruby/Rose over Vermillion, which would be amazing.
Having been responsible for cleaning a loco painted caledonian blue while volunteering, yes, it shows up the dirt like you wouldn't believe.
Also, there was 1948-1954 green which was literally post-war GWR green. After 1954 BR created their own
would be very interesting to see people's ideas for alternatives to br liveries
I actually prefer BR Green and Black over the big four liveries (except the LMS maroon which looks sexy af). It was simple, practical and looked nice.
Yeah I'll second this, with the asterisk that I prefer express blue, but BR green is a close second, then LMS red.
The Henry Ford quote. Lovely
Ah, but it was not Henry Ford who said it! Ford was not building black cars when the quote was misattributed to him, for it was Francis Webb who (most likely) said it before. And indeed, Francis Webb was the Locomotive Superintendant of the LNWR.
@@FlyingScott or at least someone in the lnwr board if directors
I really like BR Green, for some reason I've always liked it since I was young. Of course it's not as striking as say Express Passenger Blue (which is probably my favourite), LNER Apple Green or Garter Blue and it does look a bit "ordinary" but when painted well, it's stunning.
I think also the fact that models for a very long time couldn't get the right and only now are they starting to get it correct, especially Hornby who have now finally got the BR Green shade right and looks so much better than older models.
Very interesting and quite colorful history compared with most continental European railways which generally used black for post-war steam locomotives, the wheels were sometimes red, sometimes black.
With the exception of Czechoslovakia which not only ordered a remarkable number of post-war steam locomotive series, they also painted them in blue or green, some series in more lively shades, some rather subdued and still elegant. For other rolling stock the liveries there were also quite colorful and varied with numerous one-off paintings designed by workshops. It is only in recent years that Czech railways settled on blue/white and Slovak railways on red/white, for the most part. A number of preserved steam locomotives still show their vivid liveries.
I’ll second this, some of the prettiest locomotive liveries I think were the Albatros locomotives in their dark blue with red wheels, they’re awesome to look at.
Hey, I’m a tester for CW and shades of colour is a big discussion. I believe the colour used on CW locos from the N15 onwards is GWR Middle Chrome green. There are a couple different shades of BR green as hand mixing can result in inconsistency across the network, not to mention the paint fading over time. It’s also worth saying to take the colours of locos and stock in Train Sim with a grain of salt when using them as a visual aid, as it’s still a constant debate as to what the correct colours are
Just a minor suggestion for future videos because you’ve really done some good work here…
A bit of a conclusion where you re-state the true name of the livery would really serve to bring this to a nice close alongside the little “as long as it’s black” anecdote. :)
Colour is interesting, so much this is howxi remember it or it doesn't look right in a photo or screen.
Personally I like the BR loco green whatever shade it maybe.
As a railway modeller I wanted to find out the colour code for BR loco green as I live in Australia and I can't import model oaints from the UK.
I think you can't be pedantic about colour but suffice to say I can tell if a green is way off.
If you search BS colour standards you won't find any colour called BR loco green either pre or post 1954.
A professional model painter told be the colour is Deep Bronze Green as you stated, this means that BR adopted the colour and gave it there own name.
For any one interested it is BS381C no 224.
I always liked the BR derivative of ex BR livery and I think the GWR locos with all the polished brass beading, safety valve bonnets and copper clad chimneys look great.
I had heard that Brunswick green by Humbrol was the closest match and that’s where the misnomer came from. I really wish they stuck with Caledonian blue (light or dark), apple green, or even crimson, as striking, luminous colours are hardwired into the overall identity of uk steam, and because Flying Scotsman wouldnt have been in a drab green when I went to see her.
Happy New Year Scott!
Brunswick Green has been the bane of my modelling life. I have never been able to get a match for the color I would see in photos in magazines. Of course it doesn't help if those photos are at the whim of the color balances of the photos being printed. It also doesn't help if the green on transfer sheets doesn't match the green that model producers have on their production lines.
It would have been much more convenient if BR had just had three types of black, Lined Express, Lined Mixed and Unlined Freight Locomotives. But that's only an Australian's point of view. The only British locomotive I've seen up close is the Flying Scotsman, and that LNER Green looked different from what was on models.
How confusing.
Nice video didyou heard about hattons closing down 😢
Dear Flying Scott. Please do more British Railways Standard Class 5 4-6-0 Tender Engines like City of Peterborough No. 73050, 73156, 73129, Merlin No. 73080, No. 73054, Linette No. 73087, Tintagel No. 73084, No. 73000, No. 73069, No. 73052, No. 73029, and No. 73154, Flying Scott, for more of your videos, along with more 14xx Class 0-4-2 Tank Engines No. 1401, 1420, 1427, 1436, 1442, 1450, and 1466.
Well in the ' i cant be arsed to clean it livery' to quote a random lad that reveiwed a route
So, BR Brunswick Green is actually called Land Rover Green? How interesting!
2:48 , Did the Lord Nelsons actually ever carry Apple Green? I'm aware of BR ultramarine, apple green, and other transitional liverys but I've never heard of the LNs in BR apple green?
Arguments about locomotive livery, especially preserved examples, is the same everywhere. I see it all the time here in Victoria, especially with unusual ones like the R-class in WCR livery (something that was only briefly seen in the 90s/early 2000s when its owner thought it'd be funny to put into revenue service).
Hell, I've seen arguments about Japanese steam liveries, and they're all black!
What do you use to render the 3D models of the trains and environment?
Train Simulator!
Even the green Caledonia Works chose is wrong, Bossman Games has been the first TS dev (I think) to get it right with early AND late BR green liveries
What sim package are you using..?? Those train graphics are gobsmackingly gorgeous... 👍
When you just run the graphics on high and people seem to think you're using enhancing mods:
@@FlyingScott - Not asking what mods you're using - Just curious which train sim you're using.. 👍
Ah, my mistake - Railworks Train Simulator!
For the record; if we're comparing livery colours, the LAST sim I would use to represent said liveries would be TSC... They are infamous for getting the shades completely wrong, some of their American content isn't even the right COLOUR.
(B&O is not supposed to be PURPLE!)
Whilst that is fair, the only footage I have of a BR green locomotive are those two minutes worth of Flying Scotsman shuttling about at Shildon.
@@FlyingScott I figured that was the case, I just wanted to put it out there since it’s important context, especially when you talk about things like the experimental blue having a tendency to look almost black while dirty - meanwhile the livery on screen looks about as pastel blue as a livery can possibly get.
It’s just important to keep in mind that’s probably not what the actual locomotives looked like in person, at least most of the time… not that I’m trying to trash on the content either, it looks well made, just take things with a grain of salt in these kinds of videos.
It’s also entirely possible many content developers are falling prey to the same traps the model railway industry does.
(I can’t speak to that one way or the other, I barely know anything about UK rail history)
Wait do you mind going a bit more in depth about the bit to do with Land Rovers?
Brunswick green was used on Pennsylvania railroad
0:36 hang on I thought it was British racing green
Hello it's been a long time.
Wheelie bin livery
Aren't these colours defined by one of the British Standards? The locomotive colour is close to BS4800: 12C39. British Racing Green is close to 14C39,
Oh dear! The 'exact' shade of British Racing Green is even more impossible to define - there was a lot of variation, even in the day when British racing cars had to be painted green.
3:41 What is the name of the blue color of the British Railways?
Should've used wallpaper on them instead 😅
If I have to have a BR color for my engine, I'll go Lined Green nearly every time. Mostly because I'm an American. Nearly all American locomotives were black. BLACK IS BORING!!! I much prefer my engines to have at least a hint of old world class, hence preferring Green. I also prefer BR's Late Crest for the same reason: It's classy.
Paint is paint, just don't make it look ugly:p
I prefer B.R Green to Apple Green.opks more like built for a job
It's British Racing Green - Argue with me... 🙃🤣
Always hated the Blackberry livery.
Cool
LAND ROVER POWER!!!!!!
NER green is better
disgusting.
Why?
gacha cringe. get lost.@@W4lmartbag
Bro what?
reread it@@thescottishtwits6420
British foamers are so hard to please, you can have any locomotive in like 50 different paint jobs, but cry and whine because one "doesn't look good" when it looks amazing.
Keep crying and whining about that green and I will personally go to the UK, and paint everything Shiny Engine Black with a graphite smoke box and fire box, exactly the way god intended.
Maybe toss some white walls on stuff for some extra flair who knows
I guess as there are no headlamps, that people are relying on the colour to be vibrant and striking enough to be seen from afar. Also, many locomotives are supposed to have the tyres left in polished condition, which looks a lot like old Lionel style white walls!