It's interesting that those tenders allowed better visibility backwards than forwards. I built a german-inspired streamline loco and tender in Minecraft the other day, and ended up designing the tender very similarly for the same reason.
In Hungary, we had our own push pull capable steam engines, with cab cars to work with them, starting in 1962. There were 3 locomotive types chosen initially, the 324, 328 and 424 classes. The 328 was later dropped, while the 324s received 4 axle tenders to run more stable in reverse at speed. The biggest ones, the 424s, were limited at maximum 75 kmh in reverse. To allow this, mechanical systems were used, giving the driver control of the airbrakes, the throttle (to shut it), the lights and the whistle also. The throttle still had to be opened from the loco, so a third, assisting driver was placed on the engine, with whom the driver in the cab car communicated with by either telephone or by bell, according to some sources.
>in den 60ger leben >in hamburg arbeiten >in harburg wohnen >mit der Bundesbahn nach Hamburg pendeln >in Hamburg angekommen >in richtung tür gehen >BR 38 angucken >den zug verlassen
Vielen Dank für die sehr nützlichen Auskunft über die Art der Pendlerdienste, die die Mädchen für alles in den letzten Jahren ihres Bestehens erbracht haben. Es ist erstaunlich, daß Sie so spezifische Kenntniße über die Laufeigenschaften von herkömmlichen- im Vergleich zu Badewannen-Tendern haben.
In my village they have a old German kriegslokomotives that are still operational today as museum pieces that I see going in reverse from time to time and I kind of like the kriegsloks.
@@pascalstrijker3985 Since you've mentioned it, I want to add that the "Kriegslokomotive", or BR 52 (63 in Norway) was prohibited from running backwards on Rørosbanen in Norway. It happened after a derailment at Stensli. Curvature combined with uneven track and possibly high speed resulted in the tender being rocked sideways rhythmically and the water in the tender adding enough momentum to help tip the tender of the track and the rest of the train along with it, at least that's what they thought. This type of steam locomotive is one of the largest types used in Norway since most Norwegian types were both smaller and lighter to suit the light standard of the track. Then again, this derailment happened in 1965, so it was a familiar locomotive at that point. It was also shortly before the end of regular steam powered trains, so this prohibition didn't make a big difference, most likely. As a side note, most Norwegian steam locomotives servicing push-pull trains around the few larger cities had an integrated tender, like usual in many cities in Europe.
I absolutely love your videos with the graphics, animations, and the information! I love learning about the original DB trains, I hope you cover everything up to even ICE Ts and 4s! Love it all!
Push Pull trains in the U.K. existed but mainly on Branch Lines (The Great Western and Western Region used them and also the LMS Midland region) it was only in the late 1970’s that Diesel Push Pull trains were introduced The service from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street in Scotland. By the end of British Rail, there were a considerable number of Push Pull Intercity Express trains operating in the U.K. the Eastern Region used them with the 225 Electric service out of Kings Cross to Edinburgh etc. plus the service from London Liverpool Street to Norwich, again electrically powered and services out of Euston on the West Coast mainline. I always think of the BR 38 (P8) class as being the German equivalent of the LMS Black 5 class of locomotives.
Most of P8 with this big tub tender (w2'2'T30/10) were not equipped with a closed engine driver's cab but only adjusted to the alternative. Of course the closed version was very comfortable because a good shelter against wind, rain, snow and cold in harsh winters. Only 41 P8 had closed cabs and were equipped with reversing train control system - by the way not only for the 4-axle push-and-pull wagons shown, but also with converted pre-war 2-axle vehicles. @philosimot
In Europe steam locomotives ran longer than in the United States, As bad World War II might have been the good thing was that railroad enthusiasts overseas still got to see steam in action well into the 60s and 70s
38 1772 is not a "Wendezug P8". It lost its original Prussian Tender in an accident around easter 86 (I believe) while traveling on the Wutachtalbahn in southern Germany. Thats why it has the open Cab.
The commands were transferred through an engine telegraph, similar to those used on ships. When the driver sends a command, the fireman hears a sound and can see the driver's request on the telegraph. Only once the fireman responds by sending back the same command, the sound turns off. I might do a more in-depth video about this in the future.
The preserved Siamese Railway that runs the excursion train also do double heading in a rather unusual setup. Both locomotives will put their rear together and one will be running forward and the other one running backward. The reason being that Thai railway no longer has a turntable and wye also not a frequent sight.
@@nigelslade5276 Double headed Garratts would have been a sight to behold. We also had some around here too (the same gauge as South African ones too) but they are static displays now.
They used different types of telegraph machines, with one in particular being very similar to those used on ships. I might make a separate video about that in the future.
Manufacturers are not very happy about running Locomotives in Reverse?! The brakes were designed to stop Rolling Forward??? A lot of stress are on brakes running in Reverse???!!
Erm... No offence, but I really think you should either improve your English pronunciation a little, or include human-made CC. I struggled with understanding this narrative of yours, and so did the algorithm generating those "auto-generated" CC. So I gave up mid-video, it was just too much trouble for me. Again, this is NOT to ridicule or mock you, I understand it's hard to overcome one's native language sounds, but still. Cheers.
It's interesting that those tenders allowed better visibility backwards than forwards. I built a german-inspired streamline loco and tender in Minecraft the other day, and ended up designing the tender very similarly for the same reason.
In Hungary, we had our own push pull capable steam engines, with cab cars to work with them, starting in 1962. There were 3 locomotive types chosen initially, the 324, 328 and 424 classes. The 328 was later dropped, while the 324s received 4 axle tenders to run more stable in reverse at speed. The biggest ones, the 424s, were limited at maximum 75 kmh in reverse.
To allow this, mechanical systems were used, giving the driver control of the airbrakes, the throttle (to shut it), the lights and the whistle also. The throttle still had to be opened from the loco, so a third, assisting driver was placed on the engine, with whom the driver in the cab car communicated with by either telephone or by bell, according to some sources.
I’ve never seen this type of set up on tenders or operation anywhere else in the world. Thanks for making a video on this German train history.
>in den 60ger leben
>in hamburg arbeiten
>in harburg wohnen
>mit der Bundesbahn nach Hamburg pendeln
>in Hamburg angekommen
>in richtung tür gehen
>BR 38 angucken
>den zug verlassen
As an American, your videos are treasure troves of info. Appreciate you putting these together, and I love seeing your 3D Model work.
Thank you! I'm glad my videos are informative to you!
Vielen Dank für die sehr nützlichen Auskunft über die Art der Pendlerdienste, die die Mädchen für alles in den letzten Jahren ihres Bestehens erbracht haben. Es ist erstaunlich, daß Sie so spezifische Kenntniße über die Laufeigenschaften von herkömmlichen- im Vergleich zu Badewannen-Tendern haben.
In my village they have a old German kriegslokomotives that are still operational today as museum pieces that I see going in reverse from time to time and I kind of like the kriegsloks.
Always good to hear, a fair number of them are still operational in many different countries and are still going tender first from time to time!
@@steelbridgemodels There is actually footage of one of their trains actually going tender first on its way back
@@pascalstrijker3985 Since you've mentioned it, I want to add that the "Kriegslokomotive", or BR 52 (63 in Norway) was prohibited from running backwards on Rørosbanen in Norway. It happened after a derailment at Stensli. Curvature combined with uneven track and possibly high speed resulted in the tender being rocked sideways rhythmically and the water in the tender adding enough momentum to help tip the tender of the track and the rest of the train along with it, at least that's what they thought. This type of steam locomotive is one of the largest types used in Norway since most Norwegian types were both smaller and lighter to suit the light standard of the track. Then again, this derailment happened in 1965, so it was a familiar locomotive at that point. It was also shortly before the end of regular steam powered trains, so this prohibition didn't make a big difference, most likely.
As a side note, most Norwegian steam locomotives servicing push-pull trains around the few larger cities had an integrated tender, like usual in many cities in Europe.
Vsm Apeldoorn?
@@Lumberjackk no
I absolutely love your videos with the graphics, animations, and the information! I love learning about the original DB trains, I hope you cover everything up to even ICE Ts and 4s! Love it all!
Push Pull trains in the U.K. existed but mainly on Branch Lines (The Great Western and Western Region used them and also the LMS Midland region) it was only in the late 1970’s that Diesel Push Pull trains were introduced The service from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street in Scotland. By the end of British Rail, there were a considerable number of Push Pull Intercity Express trains operating in the U.K. the Eastern Region used them with the 225 Electric service out of Kings Cross to Edinburgh etc. plus the service from London Liverpool Street to Norwich, again electrically powered and services out of Euston on the West Coast mainline. I always think of the BR 38 (P8) class as being the German equivalent of the LMS Black 5 class of locomotives.
I never knew P8’s with Wannentenders existed before, they look really nice and unique. Also, great video
Thank you! I like them too, the long tender gives them quite an elegant appearance.
@@steelbridgemodels The Wannentender’s roundness also quite matches with the boiler’s which is nice aswell
In the late 60s most P8 were equipped with them. But only 41 with closed cabs - they had that reverse train control. @@steelbridgemodels
Most of P8 with this big tub tender (w2'2'T30/10) were not equipped with a closed engine driver's cab but only adjusted to the alternative. Of course the closed version was very comfortable because a good shelter against wind, rain, snow and cold in harsh winters. Only 41 P8 had closed cabs and were equipped with reversing train control system - by the way not only for the 4-axle push-and-pull wagons shown, but also with converted pre-war 2-axle vehicles. @philosimot
In Europe steam locomotives ran longer than in the United States, As bad World War II might have been the good thing was that railroad enthusiasts overseas still got to see steam in action well into the 60s and 70s
very interesting explanation of the tender conversion and its motivation!
Excellent video and beautiful models!
My father owns one of these with the tub-tender in model form.
Greetings from Germany to Germany
Thank you, und danke schön! The tub-tender P8 is certainly a lovely model to have!
Did some quick google searches and one in fact _does_ have a similar style of tender you documented. 38 1772 from what I’ve seen
38 1772 is not a "Wendezug P8".
It lost its original Prussian Tender in an accident around easter 86 (I believe) while traveling on the Wutachtalbahn in southern Germany.
Thats why it has the open Cab.
Nice Video of Favourite Steam Loco the P8; I would like to see a video of a Baureihe 23 that would also be very interesting.
good video. Explained well. Strange, but effective engines.
I REALLY liked this video and I subscribed to your channel.
I'd like to get a history of the BR45 or the BR53. Two VERY large German locomotives. :)
Im curious, is there any information available on the control cars or how the locomotive recieved commands?
The commands were transferred through an engine telegraph, similar to those used on ships. When the driver sends a command, the fireman hears a sound and can see the driver's request on the telegraph. Only once the fireman responds by sending back the same command, the sound turns off. I might do a more in-depth video about this in the future.
The preserved Siamese Railway that runs the excursion train also do double heading in a rather unusual setup. Both locomotives will put their rear together
and one will be running forward and the other one running backward. The reason being that Thai railway no longer has a turntable and wye also not a frequent sight.
A very elegant solution to a common problem with steam excursion trains. Thank you for sharing!
Did this in South Africa with double headed Garratts
@@nigelslade5276 Double headed Garratts would have been a sight to behold. We also had some around here too (the same gauge as South African ones too) but they are static displays now.
@@steelbridgemodels It looks rather odd for seeing them back to back TBH but it’s a simple and effective way.
@@thinaphonpetsiri9907 With tender locomotives it's quite an unusual sight, that is very true.
Found your chennel today. I love it!
There are still some push and pull locomotives still in existance in the UK. Though their all tank engines.
Thanks for this informative video
It's called "tender first" if it's not a tank engine.
this is a great quality we need more of this.
you got sub 111 now
viele grüße aus Deutschland/best wishes from germany
Thank you so much, there are certainly a lot more videos to come! Beste Grüße zurück!
How did the driver in the control cab communicate with the fireman in the loco?
They used different types of telegraph machines, with one in particular being very similar to those used on ships. I might make a separate video about that in the future.
Time to go up to the attic and run my class 38 tub-tender model (märklin 5597)
Sounds like a perfect plan!
If it is Märklin, it is no model 😂😂😂😂😂
awesome channel 👍😎
Amazing video! :D
Thank you so much!
great video learned alot! thank you! video about 45 big steam frieght loc
Thank you! I'll keep the Class 45 in mind.
The Netherlands did this too.
More about the v36 please!
You have earned my Attention here have a Subscriber and enlighten me with your knowledge.
I will do my best!
A certain Brakevan would be happy!
Oh, he would be!
Hello from Romania
Greetings from Germany to Romania!
Manufacturers are not very happy about running Locomotives in Reverse?! The brakes were designed to stop Rolling Forward??? A lot of stress are on brakes running in Reverse???!!
The P8s were always equipped with brake gear engaging with the wheels from both directions, therefore braking in reverse wasn't a problem.
Erm... No offence, but I really think you should either improve your English pronunciation a little, or include human-made CC. I struggled with understanding this narrative of yours, and so did the algorithm generating those "auto-generated" CC. So I gave up mid-video, it was just too much trouble for me. Again, this is NOT to ridicule or mock you, I understand it's hard to overcome one's native language sounds, but still. Cheers.