Who are the Davidians (Shepherd's Rod)?
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- The Davidian Seventh-day Adventists, also known as the Shepherd’s Rod are a little-known and divided group. This video covers their teachings.
Links to Davidian websites:
UPA7
Universal Publishing Association UA-cam / @universalpublishing
Universal Publishing Association South Africa UA-cam / @upa7sa-goldenbowlstud...
Universal Publishing Association Website upa7.org/
Shepherds Rod Speaks Website www.shepherds-rod-speaks.org/
Why perish whyperish.org
Pre-11th Hour Ministries
Website pre-11thhourministry.org/
UA-cam / @davidiansdaadventist5190
Peralta’s UA-cam / @robp123451
Peralta’s Blog hearyetherod.wordpress.com/
Salem
Website www.davidian.org/
Bashan Hill
Website www.bashanhill.org/
Live Streams livestream.com/bashanhill
Mountain Dale
Website www.shepherds-rod-message.org/
Waco
HYTR UA-cam channel / @hytr
Davidian Today Website davidiantoday.org/
Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Church (Lennox Sam)
www.gadsda.com/
Samuel Gonzalez
Laodiceans Website laodiceans.com/
Universal Publishing Association www.universalpublishing.com/
Shepherdsrod.com shepherdsrod.com/
Victor Houteff Website www.victorhouteff.com/
Shepherd’s Rod Information Center
www.shepherds-rod.org/
I hate to be overly dismissive but there is something truly comical about all these tiny schismatic groups pointing fingers in circles at each other.
Especially as it makes things difficult for people who are thinking of potentially joining, with each group saying different things as to what's the 'valid' teaching.
also all of their websites look completely insane
This reminds me of all the Sedevacantist groups in Roman Catholicism and the Old Calendarist groups in Orthodoxy.
@@srd2725 late 90s website design is alive and well with these guys
Orthodox moment
Before you finish this series I fully expect you to say "but that denomination had a split and formed a new denomination, which is literally just one guy."
Yes, only one guy called Muhamad 😂
? @@thisistheway7529
Better yet, someone with multiple personality disorder who belongs to several mutually exclusive sects.
Davidian graphics are great. Inky cut-and-paste symbolism without even a nod to the modern world.
Indeed. I think that’s one of the problems for modern Davidian groups as they feel so beholden to re-publish exact duplicates of Houteff’s original writings that they are sorely out of date with modern tastes.
Fun little anecdote.
I had an OLD beat up dually that had electrical issues and couldn't pass emissions. Wasn't worth it to repair.
Listed it in the classifieds (yes I'm old) and the people who came to pick it up made sure it started, then gave us like $100 over our asking price because we had just filled it up (dual 20 gallon tanks). Cash in an envelope. Didn't want a bill of sale, hardly even wanted the title.
Asked them what they were gunna do with it, turns out the just needed a ranch truck for their compound. Asked them about their compound, and they straight up told us they were Branch Davidians out in some BFE town in southeast Arizona.
Small world, I guess!
One believer = heretic.
Two believers = church.
Three believers = schism.
Today I learned what BFE means 😅
Not a question for your specifically but why Egypt?? Surely there’s more desolate places who’s name could’ve been used. Egypt was such a big power throughout history
@@officaldungeons Just a turn of phrase my guy.
Oldest reference I could find is military slang from 1972... So who knows. I wouldn't read too much into it.
@@officaldungeonsget over it
That's mind-blowing. How do people even have the time for figuring out which branch they want to davidian with...
I like how the internal politics were so complicated that it took 14 minutes to get to “oh yeah, what do these people believe?” 😂
It is reminiscent of a Monty Python conversation.
@@elisejaudon925at first I read that as "Monty Python conversion" - quite an image!
wow, my head is spinning now.
Love the flowery prose of their mutual shade AND the way they all set themeselves up with the exact same names and brands.
It's a bit like that old line about how you never see a Second Baptist Church, or how most of the offshoots of the Latter-Day Saints movement just call themselves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints so people trying to study the movement resort to calling each branch by the name of it's founder (the most famous ones and the ones most people think of when they think of Mormons are the Brighamites, but there's also the Strangites, the Bickertonites, the W̶i̶l̶m̶i̶n̶g̶t̶o̶n̶i̶t̶e̶s̶ (upon further inspection this group doesn't actually exist: pretend I mentioned the Godbeites instead,) the various Temple Lot sects (that's Temple Lot in Independence MO, not Temple Square in SLC) and half a million more. Honestly as a scholar of new religious movements Christian NRMs have some of the worst branding I've seen. I mean the Church of Scientology's offshoots have branding that you'd never confuse with the COS, whether we're talking strictly about the Free Zone/independent Scientology scene (example groups would be the Advanced Ability Center, Ron's Org, and the Advanced Org of the Great Plains) or the various groups founded by Scientologists which don't practice Scientology (examples would include Erhard Seminars Training, NXIVM, The Process Church of the Final Judgement, and Eckankar (which in turn has its own offshoot groups like Ancient Teachings of the Masters and Vardankar.))
@@tjenadonn6158 who are the wilmingtonites? I've never heard of them before and I'm not getting any results from my internet searches.
@@weirdlanguageguy Upon further research they're what happen when I type some ungodly hour of the morning (no pun intended) and accidentally whip an LDS sect out of thin air. Call it a mulligan?
It's somewhat strange they haven't sued each other out of existence over it. At least corporate America tends to get hyper-defensive over branding and names being confusingly similar. You'd half expect that to carry over to these churches and give rise to internecine court battles where only the lawyers are winners thanks to huge legal fees. Are these groups perhaps religiously opposed to settling the issue in court, or do they all have such similarly strong claims to those names that they realise a fight over branding would be mutually assured destruction?
@@tjenadonn6158my step-father’s (God rest his soul) Church is St. John Second Baptist Church. It’s the only Church I know with “Second Baptist” in it.
Great video. This is the kind of religious study that most fascinates me.
I have an associate who is Davidian. Bats in the belfry. "Always Winter and never Christmas"
Is that a Narnia Quote?
@@thesinfultictac5704 yes.
For awhile there this descended (ascended?) into a Davidian version of Life of Brian.
"We have to unite against our common enemy!"
@@davidozab2753
The Judean People's Front?!?!
Most important point is Mr. Houteff was disfellowshpped from the Seventh-Day Adventist Church about a Century ago for teachings that were not in line with Seventh-Day Adventist. And everything since has been many splinters going further and further a field from the SDA church. As an SDA many years ago as a kid I heard of the Shepards Rods and as you said they are basically hostile towards Adventist yet view them as their only "mission field". Seems like a handful of "strong men" trying to fight it out for control these days. Thanks for the this amazing research.
Having grown up in "Adventist Ghettos", I've had to deal with these splinter groups several times. Sometimes they are low-key and are handing out propaganda flyers or pamphlets, and other times they are confrontational and protesting Adventist get-togethers. Looking at their literature makes me wonder WHO would ever take it seriously. Seeing their behavior also makes one question who would take them seriously.
This is largely false. Being in this movement for over 12 years now, I have RARELY seen or heard of Davidians being "hostile" towards SDA members. In fact, it is usually the other way around!
@@robp123451 Preying exclusively on the Sda church isn't hostile? Believing all SdA's one day must and will be Killed isn't Hostile? It certainly is from a SDA Christian ✝️ point of view.
@@larsandrune You are using the very same tactics the SDA use. They use trigger words such "prey" "disrupt" "hostile" etc. As for "all SDA will be killed" , that is out of context. The message from Ellen White (SDA founder) was the message originally that taught that a church purification was coming to the SDA church (we have a report on that). She used Ezek. 9 as her basis for that, the DSDA simply adhere to what the prophetess taught and do not deny it ( as do many SDA leaders -- a paradox for sure!). You can also see the purification from Scripture ( See Isaiah 66:15-21 and Mal. 3:1-5)
And I am pretty sure the Bulgarian Orthodox Church disowns Mr. Houteff as well!
As a Davidian Seventh Day Adventist, this video is accurate. Well done!
What is the Gospel?
I Don’t even know why they call themselves SDA 🤦🏻♀️… simply a group who started new false doctrines that’s why they were expelled from the SDA church…
@@sandrasmith265 What new false doctrines are you talking about? If anything, Davidian SDA members are more Adventist, than none Davidian SDA members. Give me one example of one of their false doctrines.
@@19AGJ86Can you tell me pls, what happened with that group of David Koresh and with Camp and buildings that have been burned down in that tragedy?
@@thisistheway7529 I'm not sure, but I believe that branch davidians still exist.
The amount of research you must have done in order to get all this information is insane.
Thank you for your work. You do an excellent job. There are so many groups I know nothing about, but when you cover the ones I’m familiar with, everything is spot-on! So I trust you as a reliable source of information for the rest. Again, great job and many thanks.
Hello, Father, are you a part of the Anglican Church in North America?
@@jacobnewmanlim2470 I think he is, yes.
Your best video yet. Well done.
Reading about all these little perpetually fractionating Protestant groups makes me so happy in my heart. Imagine what it must be like to belong to a church with maybe 100-ish people and to earnestly believe without a shadow of a doubt that yours is the one true church and that even those who are so similar to you except on minor details not even noticeable to outsiders are going to Hell for not believing the exact same things as you. It must be really, really nice honestly.
Not all small church Protestant lines believe all other Christians go to hell or that they are the "one true church" FYI
Wow as an ex-Trotskyist I sense something familiar with the Davidians. haha
Internal power struggles and schisms really do seem to be an inherent aspect of humanity
Ok as a marxist this sent me lmao
Really like the style you have going on. For some reason it makes me feel like I've gone back to the 80s in a library somewhere. I can almost smell the smell of the books. Thanks for your work!
Thank you. As always a great video but I've got to admit that, despite your formidable powers of lucid presentation, I am still bewildered.
Great video. There is a lot of work in this so thanks for sharing this.
Fascinating. Very impressive research Sir. Glad to be Roman Catholic.
Just as the Anglican church is the needle in the Catholics' ass up to this day.
So go do your research on that!.😅😅😅
Sure, there have never been any controversies or divisions about that church!
Yeah, it’s pretty easy if you always bow to Rome.
@@KingoftheJuice18 Schismatics will schism 🤷♂
Thanks for the breakdown, good summary on an otherwise fractured religious sect. It's interesting that all Davidian sects can agree on "the tithe only goes to who has the truth", and then these sects pop up all claiming to have the truth, while discrediting the other sects. Seems like each one just wants all the tithes to themselves. But that's crazy talk, they would never be motivated by money...
I enjoyed that. I am a former SDA born and bred so to speak.
I remember at a camp meeting about 58 or 59 right in front of the big tent at the evening meeting there was a trash can for Shepherd's Rod literature. There was also a guy with a white beard and like a shepherd's crook standing by.
I had no idea what was going on.
For some reason it's really funny to me that they said, if Brother Houteff didn't come back to life in 1959, they would be proven wrong, and then they actually went through with it and went back to being normal Seventh-day Adventists when it didn't happen in 1959. It's as if I'm shocked to see logic or science actually applying, even if there was a 3-year delay.
They have come to understand that brother Houteff was wrong, his argument failed biblical truth, and was not accepted by the Seventh day Adventist Church, so he took some members and creat his own, but his predictions shows his false understanding of the Bible, and the memebers went back to the SDA, that I believe what happened. SDA is the only church that teaches the biblical truth,
@@aganese4030 Victor houtteff did not predict the 1959 event...it was his wife after his death...never quarrel with facts
None of us have the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth. Phyxology is now a mandotory class at most Seminaries including SDA Lacombe Ab. Phycology is a "form of godliness denying the POWER" ( WE are told to depart from this ) "self esteem" is pride. So unfortunately SDA have also some 1/2 truths. Covetousness is the 10 commandment. Is what causes true Love to wax cold Math 24:12-15. Is NOT dietary issue repeat of 1st temple ( as some try to teach) But Covetousness is now being called "good christian stewardship. Teachers giving itcher ears what they want to hear. Promise blessing for dinations and tax deduxtions from athestic Gov lol Teachers often reaping what they have NOT even sown. Beware solar ecipse April 8 ( during Passover too) formed Cdptal "A" Igabod has been WRITTEN. 1 403 830 4124 Calgary Ab Cdn. WALK ( get out of the boat like Peter) in the LIGHT ( progressively ) lest the darkness over take us. BEWARE Enoch in 1st 1000 yrs Event every 1000 yrs. Math 27:52-53 is Rev 14:4 "First Fruits" is pre- trib prior to Nero 1st Century AD. Is conformed too 1 Thes 4:14 "asleep come with HIM" V 15-17 we are the next event. REV 7:9 the "Great Multide." ( note from the dead in the last 1993 yrs Beware Lukewarmness warned of - Math 22 few chosen for wedding 2 wtnesses sent to tell us the real Truth. No MSM etc will NOT tell us No UFO etc did NOT take a few HE is merciful. But Rev 20 those "beheaded" will be caught up" too with Rev 11. ZECK 14 NO reserection of Jews from Mt Olives. V 5 "saints come with HIM" coming to reign as Ambasdors already chosen at 3rd heaven Marriage Supper before they come with HIM. Will be required as Ambasdors to represent each nation at the Feast of Tabernacles. Rev 21 "new begings" is the 8th even 3 events on each side of the cross ( like we see on the Menorha ) Eyes to see and ears to hear. We have HIS WRITTEN WORD to whom much is given much is required. Live fresh water fish now in sink holes of the Dead Sea. Zeck 14 is starting to hsppen. It's WAKE up time. Amos 1 and Zeph 2 speak of Gazza. Etc.
Your video was very well done excellent video and well presented, your research and attention to detail is quite remarkable. I really did enjoy your video and you have presented information that most Adventists and even Davidians don’t know. Blessings
This is a better video than the one I saw in the past. Yet it is Almost perfect. Why is the following fact missing?
We have previously stated that this truth [[ the Shepherd's Rod ]] came through the Sabbath School department in 1929, in the lessons of the first quarter of that year, beginning with Isaiah 54 to the 66th chapter inclusive. The 54th was the first to reveal that these chapters were written directly to the church at this very time as explained on pages 136-40. In Isa. 58:1 we learned that *God is to reveal the existing sins in the church, and thereby call for reformation.* We quote the verse: "Cry aloud, spare not lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." {1SR:240.3}
This scripture now has met its fulfillment. *After these existing sins were revealed,* these studies were put into writing, the document being entitled "The Shepherd's Rod," and placed in the hands of the leading men of this movement. Thus the "Cry" like a "trumpet" is being sounded. The evidence of the existing sins being made known (shown) to God's people and to the house of Jacob, also showing that Laodiceans have neglected the invitations of the True Witness, therefore, the shame of our nakedness has appeared. "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear, and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev. 3:18.-1SR:240.3-241.1
There is nothing written in the Word of God that cannot come to pass. Always go directly to the source to find out for yourself all facts concerning any religious subject at hand.
When you get to the part that they all hate each other. I went "So they're all Libertarians?"
Damn Davidians they ruined Davidianism
Better to dislike others and debate about it than hating yourself like the average liberal.
@@k-v-d1795 preach, brother
It’s wild to me how many different denomination and “interesting” groups that came out of the original Adventist group.
William Miller opened a real can of worms!
It's an interesting premise for a UA-cam channel -- learning a lot. Thank you!
I have read and studied most of the books without being judgemental and I testify Bro Houtef indeed taught the present truth that I must know.
That's it! As Bible says "STUDY to show yourselves approved unto God.."
What I have learned from this channel is that there are some really crazy religions in the USA
That's been true for decades, at least. It was also true for the Roman Empire. 🤷♀️
That's a level of splintering enough to make even a Trotskyist blush ;)
As a Boards of Canada fan I feel scammed. As a professional Ready to Harvest enjoyer I'm here to learn about cool topics.
Brilliant summaries and analyses!
as a marxist i just have to say i'm in awe of this, these are the most trotskyist christians i've ever seen, all the denominations have one of two names and can only be destinguished by their po box city or website, several of the denominations literally just seem to be a guy with a website, and there's no attendance numbers because they're all purely entryist into the sda, actually incredible
Are you, by chance, a Branch Covidian, comrade?
I knew about the Davidians but thought it was just one group, not many. If I believed Christians were supposed to keep the seventh day, I'd just be a 7th Day Baptist ... rather than try to condemn everyone who doesn't agree with my bible interpretations in minute detail. Scary stuff.
They're well known amongst the SDA community for disrupting & dismantling churches, and generally being hostile to regular SDAs.
Thank you,Joshua🌹🌹🌹🌹
Great information.
"Let them fight!"
Brilliant. Thank you!
We praise the Lord this brother has compiled quite an accurate historical report. Being in the movement for about 14 years, I know where of I speak. Reading some of the comments I am compelled to clarify some points here.
1. Davidian Seventh-day Adventists are NOT the same as Branch Davidians (many want to lump them together because they see that both us the word Davidian.) We will use DSDA for short.
2. DSDA do not intend to "kill" SDA in the church someday. One of the craziest false rumors around!
3. DSDA hold to ALL the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church. The only difference being is that they have 15 additional Fundamental Beliefs.
4. They do not teach to "leave" the SDA church. That is not our goal at all.
5. The main basic teachings of the DSDA are -- reformation within our church, the church purification coming (Ezek. 9, Isaiah 66:15-21, Mal. 3:1-5) and prior to the world's close of probation, the setting up of God's final Gospel proclamation based from the Holy Land ( Isaiah 2:2-3). The sealing of the 144,000 and its importance. Ofcourse there are more but those are the four core teachings.
At first I read it as Dravidians and thought of course they still exist... And then saw the channel's name and read the title once again lol.
The Dravidians not only still exist, they have a sick tech tree and a great matchup against archer civs.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Dravidians are the people of southern India, speaking a family of languages unrelated to those of the Aryans of northern India. I did a quick Google search to figure out what on earth you're talking about. As far as I can tell, it's some computer game that hijacked the name "Dravidian" because it sounds cool.
@@bigscarysteve I'm not sure which computer game your referring to, I was referring to Age of Empires 2.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts I couldn't tell you either. As far as I'm concerned, all computer games are the same. My only concern is the difference between the Dravidians who live in a fictional computer world and the Dravidians who live in the real world.
This was a great video. Very informative and interesting
Not to be disrespectful or condescending, but one of the most reassuring aspects of my faith as a Catholic is that instead of fracturing into dozens of tiny contentious sects with murky lineages that vehemently bicker amongst themselves over minutiae, we have a crystal clear apostolic succession tracing back 2000 years and have continued to flourish to over a billion faithful. It’s comforting knowing that the spiritual head of our church traces his roots directly to St. Peter rather than some regular guy in Early America that just claimed to be prophetic.
I am in Eastern Orthodox Christian who loves my Catholic brothers and sisters. Let us pray that God will renew our Churches and bring us back into communion with each other. We need each other.
And I think it hilarious that you don’t recognize that almost all these splinter churches started as chunks that fell off your log in the early renaissance. Surely you know that the doctrines of your church change too. Remember limbo?
Soon all of us will see and know what is what.... judgment of God coming,already is in the land,for not accepting and believing his truths... Faith and works
Reminds me of the People’s Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Front.
Never heard of that.
@@bigscarysteve
It’s a Monty Python skit about two groups that want the exact same thing with slightly different names, but both hate each other.
Here's the link to watch the UsefulCharts video that continues the family tree of denominations: ua-cam.com/video/qe2a-mOkM68/v-deo.html
You don't want to miss this one!
Rather, it's time to know Jesus, it's time to hear from Him, because you won't have all the time you want to seek after Him, and you undoubtly know that you won't find Him in church.
You have to seek Jesus to find Him, because He is a real person, He Is Alive, He Is God, He Is Lord, He speaks and He is not mute. You have to pray to Him, you have to listen to Him.
Because you'll have to give an account to Him, and it can be whenever. Get right with Him, because otherwise you do everything in vain and you'll perish with vanity in Hell.
But He gave His Blood so that you can be right with Him, so that you can be forgiven of your sins if you repent, so that you can be delivered from sin, so that you can receive understanding from Him.
He does not only love people, He hates sin also. He Is Faithful to make Himself known to you if you humbly ask Him and persist.
May Jesus bless you.
As a literal Davidian... I must say
I find this enter😂ing
Thanks for doing research on these obscure sects. Not practical info for me, but their histories and interconnections are fascinating!
@@PassportReasons as a religious freak show- we find you freaky.
@@PassportReasons what’s the gospel?
An absolutely per superb job! This is the most accurate presentation of the history of the Davidians I have ever seen. And I have been studying their history for practically my whole life. If you do want to learn more details about the Branch Davidians, I recommend my channel. Good job Ready To Harvest!
I just subbed.
BDH,....Do you agree that these people have nothing whatsoever to do with the God nor Christianity of the Bible?
Do they view the government as a hostile power?
@@greatexpectations6577 if you mean: “Did the Davidians view the government as a hostile power?” No, not to the extent that the Branch Davidians did under Koresh. Having said that they would’ve held to a national Sunday law doctrine meeting that eventually the United States will pass a Sunday law, making it illegal to keep the sabbath.
@@branchdavidianhistory-fb3og ,....Again, Do you agree (understand) that these people have nothing whatsoever to do with the God nor Christianity of the Bible?
I'd love to see you cover and analyze the local church in The Simpsons: the First Church of Springfield, belonging to the Western Branch of the American Reformed Presby-Lutheranism. While clearly a joke, it would be interesting to see what The Simpsons says about denominations in pop culture, and to see if that church could theoretically belong to any real world denomination.
There is a real sect called the "Anglo-Lutheran-Catholics".
The Simpsons' congregation always seemed Methodist to me, but I can't tell you why. Also, I have been told by old ORU alumni that Ned Flanders is undeniably modeled on a former ORU chaplain whose name I have forgotten.
@@michaels4255 I think Methodism is a good fit: the Springfield church has liturgical worship, with vestments and hymns. They practise infant baptism, and (presumably) have an episcopal polity. Also, they do not appear to have a special focus on a born-again experience, and they don't have a strict social code. The church is also called "the first church of Springfield" (no denominational descriptors). If it truly was the first church in Springfield, and Springfield was founded in 1796, it makes sense that it was a Methodist or Methodist-influenced church, seeing that this was in the 2nd Great Awakening.
So many smart wolves, getting the sheep to follow!
The headquarters of the GA DSDA is across the street from my High School (I’m in Waco)
I am from Waco TX where the Branch Davidian standoff was in the 90s. However, the branch davidian cult still exists in Waco and my mom had to do a psych eval on one of its members
SDA Church has nothing to do with these lunatics.
Offshoots of offshoots. It's sad that so many people use these lunatics to call mainstream SDAs a cult.
It's just different dosages of the same poison in my opinion. I grew up in a third-generation "mainstream" SDA family, and Adventist culture and theology were quite harmful to me personally, and to many others I know. Adventists use the same kind of toxic in/out group thinking, information control, and guilt manipulation that other high-control groups do. Whether the SDA Church fits a strict definition of "cult" is an open question, but its behavior and the psychological damage it causes is absolutely similar.
@brettweier9504 it's not without some historical merit, The Advent of the Adventists name isn't celebrating Christmas its from the first leaders (incorrect) prediction that the world was going to end (Also to be fair that was kind of in vouge at the time). I'm also aware they have softened to the somewhat more mainstream view of the world is going to end we just don't know when so prepare for it.
@Hold Fast
This should be easy.
What ultimately happens to the wicked?
I watched the whole video, but I care so little about the subject that my mind kept wandering 😢
Great video
Very cool info
Fair and accurate analysis, not biased. May God bless you brother.
I did not think they still existed, fascinating!
My whole family is Waco Davidians. I was born a Davidian.
BTW you would be more accepted being a demon in the main SDA church than a Davidian. They treat Davidians like the Devil himself.
Oh Yes! and growing.
@robp123451 What set are you from?
@@famliy60 We are part of the Pre-11th hour Ministry
Excellent presentation
There is a UA-cam channel made by some of the modern branch davidians who reject David Koresh and it is fascinating.
David koresh stole the Branch devidian identity 😮see what happen? The enemy has and continues to tarnish the TRUTHS of God's words..... there will be a remnant saved from the bdsda.... the 144000 first fruits....GOD'S TRUTH WAS NEVER POPULAR, AND STILL IS TODAY😮....GUIDE US INTO ALL TRUTH CONCERNING YOUR KINGDOM OH LORD,AMEN
Strange and fascinating. Thanks.
Ahhh, see that's the part I got wrong about Biblical truth. My church is west of me... clearly I'm barking up the wrong tree.
The end of this made me laugh harder then I should admit. 😅
Good work , good man.
well said.God bless you
Thanks. I got it. I am listening. He is quite accurate on many things.
Based
All shall cower before my presence, mere mortals!
PEW Charitable Trust Published an article back in 2011 about "Why Millenials aren't going to church" (paraphrased title) It is partially this - churches arguing over who is right/legit and neglecting the work of the church
Hi Joshua, this is a little off topic, but what do you know about the Faith Center in Glendale CA, led by Pastor Melissa Scott? Apparently, the church was founded by her late husband, Dr. Gene Scott. I know it's not technically a denomination, but it seems to be its own unique entity. I can't figure them out.
It might be one of many independent congregations that exist these days.
I remember when that awful event happened. It's worth reading up on, or maybe watching the Netflix series about, which I just now learned about, so that's on my to-watch list.
Never had to end that way either. The Feds were too eager to cover themselves in "glory."
@@michaels4255 The ATF called it operation "showtime"
I know Caitlin Doughty from Ask a Mortician did a very respectful video on the subject.
I am surprised that the Seventh Day Adventist church allowed them to used the name Seventh day Adventist to ensure there was a separation
They tried to sue in court but for some reason lost.
Great work Joshua
Kindly share links to materials to all the groups of davidians available so far
Thanks! Links are in the video description.
In the early days of Christianity there were no New Testament writings, most people were illiterate and yet whatever they received from God deeply transformed them; to the point of being willing to die before giving it up! There was a deep fundamental unity amongst them weaved together by a DEEP love of God and one another. What changed?
Now that’s a great question.
Very potent question; I can't answer it, but it comes to mind: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:12-13
@ easy question to answer. Nothing changed. The gospel is the gospel. Christ crucified and risen for reconciliation. Many early Christians were slaves with no hope on the lunatic asylum planet of the universe. They rejoiced in a present hope of messiah, and a future hope of eternity with pure love and freedom. America, where I am cursed to live, has a population of big screen tv owners. They are the antithesis of slaves. Humans only repent and embrace the gospel when they are hurting and in pain. There ya go.
@ you did answer. Good answer
@ prosperity doctrine wasn’t preached to early church believers.
My head hurts 😢
If I may ask, where is Christ in all of this? He alone is the object of our faith and worship. While Joshua always does a fantastic job of accurately representing what each denomination believes, this all sounds like a huge distraction away from what is truly important
Exactly no Christ all law
Seventh Day Adventists & their infamous leader Ellen G White are a spinoff legalistic sect from Christianity that is more a cult that “threw the baby out with the bathwater”, in the pursuit of legalism.
Agreed. These different "sects" (my words, not the presenter's) are just an example of what is known as division among Christians that is better seen in the large denominations.
Yes, many of times Christ is placed to the side, as groups/sub-groups agrue about say laws and the like. They end up loosing the Spirit of the Word of God and what Jesus taught, because they are too focused on being Right and proving the opponent wrong.
I'm not opposed to pointing out sin and wrong doing, but do so in sincerity and love. Make it about Jesus and not about yourself or your group/church/denomination. Most humans can pick up on the Intent of your words/actions.
Stand firm in the Truth and avoiding squabbling with others because the Athiest love seeing it as it is ammo for their rifles. Few Athiest say it, but they aim to eradicate ALL religion from the world.
God bless and may we all firm up our character for salvation sake.
Just another bunch of nutty apocalyptic churches. I have no idea how any rational people would follow failed prophecies, like the Millerites who became the Seventh Day Adventists. If they make a prediction about the date of the end of days, and it is wrong, most likely most of the things they think about the Bible are also wrong. I'll never understand SDAs, or Jehovah's witnesses, or any of the other groups who base their lives around the concept that we are living in the end times. We've had 2000 years of people thinking that is true, and they all have been completely wrong.
Good question. Let's see, maybe it's the Lord who is "in all of this". "The Lord’s voice cries to the city-Wisdom shall see Your name:“Hear the rod! And Who has appointed it?" (Micah 6:9)
I just wanna say that all of these websites look terrible lol
Should tell you something about the people running them
The General Asociation makes a good point.
For some reason I read this as “Canadians still exist.”
I did not know that Koresh's Davidians grew out of SDA.
I wonder how they legally have the name Seventh-day Adventist when the founder was kicked out of the SDA church and the modern SDA church quickly sues any splinter group that includes their name in it.
Most likely because our movement has been in existence since 1930 and the name DSDA was used publicly since 1943. That's a long time of acceptance or, may we say tolerance from the SDA corporation.
SDA did try to sue over the name but lost in court. (Don't know why)
@@robp123451 our movement? No needs your devil dog movement freak.
I am surprised at how intolerant many Adventist are. I have never heard of a Southern Baptist or Evangelical Lutheran wanting to sue other Baptists or Lutherans who use that name.
Imma start the Davidians of Mt Carmel Publishers of Universal Shepherds.
I know what dividian is supposed to mean, but I think in this case it just means divided.
🔥 The Rod message in Mountandale NY teach the Truth. In Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers pg 475, Ellen White prophecies another prophet to Succeed her who is to be the Elijah, and that was Mr Victor Houteff ‼️ The last Major Prophet predicted in Malachi Chpt 4:
In the Meantime Satan sits on the Church teaching false doctrine and preaching past events instead of current & Future prophecy from the word of God.
The Message of the Rod is to bring about the Literal number of the 144,000 of Revelation Chpt 7 & 14, they're virgins because they profess a pure faith & with out fault before the Throne of God‼️
When they are all Sealed , that is when the harvest of Ezekiel 9, takes place, the cleansing. The church must first be purified before the holy fire 🔥 falls on them ‼️ You've been Warned 🔥
You should make a video about the break away groups of the Mormons such as the Temple Lot Church, Message of Elijah and their break away groups from within. It would be interesting.
“Doctor Blogger”
Best video ever.
I knew so little history, but as a Texan born I. 1980, I witnessed lots of news stories about the stand off. I didn't even realize this group splintered from the Seventh Day Adventists.
Have you reviewed Christian Scientists, the snake handlers, Moonies, universal Unitarian, shakers
Wow! Great Job! This all just goes to further show how absolutely apostate everything called the church is.
"In 1990, Vernon Howell changed his name to "David Koresh" and claimed to be messianic.'" What was that? Oh, only the wheels falling off the bus.
❕C U L T❕
About cult
I am amazed, churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Quite interesting.
Interesting
13:15 Is that a derogatory metaphorical use of the word "Jesuit"? That's fascinating if so. I wonder what the connotation is.
Yes he did indeed mean it in a derogatory way. His name is Lennox Sam, founder and "prophet" (as he is known by his followers)(Wavesheaf Ministries). Long story short he adds and subtracts to the original DSDA writings. His outlandish claims on "Jesuit infiltration" is his attempt to disparage those who challenge him. Of course, it is all a lie. Though our different groups do not see eye to eye on some of the doctrines, Lennox is almost universally shunned by those outside his group. The foremost reason is he has declared, though not openly (but through his teachings) , to be the last prophet of the SDA church. Something no one in any other active DSDA group claims or believes.
@@robp123451 only one prophet in the sadventist freak show.
@@robp123451 our group? You are a religious freak Davidian?
First!
"then this group split off, then this group split off, then some guy named Sam showed up and made a new one, then..."
Schism is like divorce, which God hates. If your church suffers from this, read on.
There are often those in a church who believe they are more inspired than those who taught them. But usually they have only generated unfounded doctrine, unwilling to accept they may be false. Here are a few ways I have come to discern truth in these matters. The doctrine is false if:
- The primary mission is to other church members and little obedience to Matthew 28:19 (Go ye therefore).
- The doctrine tends toward or includes the disparagement of leaders of the church in violation of Exodus 22:28 (Do not speak evil)
- Proponents are willing to interrupt Bible study groups discussions to use it as their platform in violation of 1 Cor 14:29 (let the other judge).
- Personal holiness is their only point in violation of Hosea 6:6 (I desire mercy).
- Making official-sounding organizations with themselves as the leader rather than building up the church (consider Acts 5:34-39).
- They believe their doctrine is foundational. And when discerning elders show them their doctrine is unbiblical, they react by working secretly, often sowing discord.
Now those points require a lot of discernment because the entire reformation movement could be condemned thereby. A sermon could be written on each point. There were only a remnant who returned to Jerusalem after the exile. There were few who were prepared for the appearance of a humble Messiah. And it appears that wickedness will increase until the day of his appearing. And who will be able to stand? My point is, the church leaders and the majority is often wrong.
For example, concerning the Sabbath, church leaders first desired to put to death our Lord Jesus, and by the law they condemned and crucified Him. Luther desired to reform the church but was unable, unintentionally ending up with a different church altogether. Each of the following reformers had their story. The Adventists did not intend or form a church of their own until they were rejected by their respective denominations (for their beliefs in the second coming 1 Thes 4:17).
In non-denominational churches, I know of many people disenchanted by the continuing progression of doctrinal changes (even while many others in the congregations don't care or love the changes). Because I belong to a denomination, they question me about all the new teachings from their pulpits. I can say this, that these sensational churches without a denomination are worse off than their former state for this reason:
- Abandonment of Bible principles for a theories or traditions, such as overlooking both old and new testament guidance on immorality in the church.
Some denominations in the last twenty years embraced teachings that were formerly unthinkable. The abandonment of the Bible and mixture of "culture" into the church is an act called spiritual "adultery". The first church to do this is given in the Bible the name "Babylon Mother of harlots". Any church embracing culture makes themselves one of her daughters because they seek to fill their worship centers based on lowered standards and inclusiveness. Is it okay to bring them into church with "come as you are", while also saying "stay as you are" in violation of John 8:11 (go and sin no more)?
So both ultra-conservative and liberal "wolves" are storming through our churches. Adventists suffer from the former because it is already a very conservative church, though there are also liberal pockets. Popular churches suffer badly from liberal teachings, relying on "sermon central" and similar sources for doctrine instead of the Bible and the influence of the Holy Spirit, and they are greatly influenced by political climate.
If only "thus says the Lord" would be the habit of all believers. If your church suffers from any of the above, it is time to be on your knees before the Lord (Rev 5:8, your prayers).
Wow.
These American cults are truly fascinating.
There is a reason Texans sometimes call the Adventists in that part of the state "Wackos" from Waco. Adventism itself seems strange to other Christian groups, Seventh-Dayers especially. Then Davidians seem strange even compared to them, and "Koresh's" group, well...no one is forgetting that debacle any time soon.
I was unaware of the splits between the various Davidian groups, but it's hardly surprising. This kind of thing tends to happen when modern people try to put themselves in the role of Biblical prophet regardless of their complete inability to hold up to the Bible's portrait and requirements of legitimate prophecy.
This is also the case with the Mormons. Everyone knows of the LDS group based out of Salt Lake, and many have heard of Fundamentalist splinter groups that tend to form polygamous communes in the desert each considering itself the sole bastion of true faith on earth. But there are several other splinter groups and each considers themselves the only true faith and excoriatesa all the others as apostates and heretics, arguing over proper temple sites and whose prophetic revelations are to be considered legit.
Such Restorationist prophet-chasing groups make the diversity of modern Protestantism look like a lesson in Ecumenicalism by comparison.
Even if a Christian believes in modern day prophecy, it is only reasonable and doctrinally safe to at least excercise the methods of discernment and protection given in the Bible. Not only does the OT tell us that any prophet who makes a prophecy which does not come to pass is a false prophet deserving death under the Law, but the New Testament warned believers to carefully test all purported prophecy, for the elders to subject it to Biblical teaching (not the other way around), and to reject anyone as a false prophet and troublemaker who attempted to alter the Gospel, made false prophecy, or taught contrary to the moral standards revealed in Christ.
If supposed believers held more tightly to the teachings of divine scripture than to the books of self-proclaimed prophets, none of these groups would have come into existence.
Although not a follower of hseroK divaD, she's a devoted Branch Davidian.
This is what it looks like when people just make up their own religion.
Stick to the Word of God, folks. Read it. Learn it. Live it.
Bible said, that Elijah would be appear in the last days before Christ 2nd coming, same of what had happened when Christ came first in the world through John the Baptist.. and that man will be rejected by many
Any info on Timothy McVeigh + Terry Nichols church (+ the KKK denominations)?
McVeigh was catholic. He just sympathized with the people who died at waco and saw the ATFs actions as reprehensible. McVeigh received his sacraments before his execution.