I've always viewed Granny's 'Headology' as Discworld's version of psychology - with her being able to convince people to do the thing she needs them to do without really even having to do any magic at all, but just by using a combination of insight into human nature, her affected status, and the suggestion of magic as a kind of placebo effect. The result being that her targets are often left wondering exactly how she managed to get them to do what she wanted, so it must have been magic! My impression has always been that Granny gets more satisifaction knowing she could use magic, but rarely needs to, to solve her problems.
You are so right - very perceptive. Pratchett does not demonise those people who are ''wrong', as it were. He will make fun of their intransigence, but he will show where it comes from. They don't even necessarily have any ill will towards this girl, they've just never been challenged in what they assume is right. He is kind towards his characters. A black and white villain is boring. Pratchett doesn't see good guys and bad guys, just people. Headology is not to do with herbs. Essentially, it's Granny Weatherwax's version of psychology (except she would never have truck with such a word). She intuitively understands how a lot of people's minds work, and uses that for her purposes (e.g. curing people of diseases, or deflecting them from understanding what she actually did). She does also work with herbs. But she can also do magic - she just prefers not to. That's the great thing about Granny - we know she's actually very powerful, but she prefers to be clever. And it's interesting what you said at the start about Eskarina being "meant" to be a wizard (it's wizard, not warlock - a warlocks would be a male witch). But the staff found her, so I think that just means that although wizards might be prejudiced, a magical staff is not. Pratchett is not really into 'chosen one' mythos as a whole. The Discworld is more chaotic than that. He's more like "Stuff happens. We muddle through".
Headology is more complicated then just psychologie. Diskworld is a setting where perception is reality and belief is strong enought to create the thing it believes in. The magic in headologie is to use that power to make ppl sort of magic themselves. So while Granny might not be watching the road to see what is comming. Her belief in that that would work to trick ppl into thinking she knows who it is by magic is enougth to enable her to actaully know who it is. Or when she sets her own hand on fire to free herself from a vodo doll. It's not that she set the doll on fire herself. She just made the user of the doll believe that it would work like that and therefor it did.
"I'm gonna read it to you again. You weren't listening close enough!" 😂 This is why we reread these books so much. There's always more to catch. I'm so happy you're discovering the Disc and loving as much as I do. I think I'll go back and read along with you. Have fun!
Good News: Granny reappears in just a few books-book 6 Wyrd Sisters-which is probably my favorite early Pratchett book, either that or Guards! Guards! Bad News: Eske is not in that book so I guess temper your expectations a bit. However, there are new witches that I am certain you will adore. I am very very excited for you to meet Nanny Ogg and Magrat this fall.
@@merphynapierreviews This is speculation, but I think Pratchett just found Granny more fun to write. I kind of ponder if she was originally supposed to have a smaller role in the story, like the classic "mentor" character, but she turned out to be such a strong character that she ended up more of a main character than Esk. Even in Equal Rites, Granny is the one who goes through the biggest character arc and the one who develops the most. (You kinda see something similar with Vimes and Carrot in the Watch novels; Pratchett has admitted that he'd originally intended for Carrot to be the main character, but Vimes just kind of took over because he was the more interesting protagonist. Of course Carrot did still have a large role in the books.) There's a LOT more Granny Weatherwax in upcoming books, though. And, without going into any sort of details, she's going to go through a LOT more development and we get to explore her a LOT more. Equal Rites is just the start of her journey. (And Esk is not the last young girl she takes on a mentor role towards.)
Witches vs wizards is a bit like the difference between psychologist vs surgeon. Both are complex medical fields, and need a high degree of expertise. Fixing people in very different ways. But are often very different people who persue understanding of thoughts vs bodies.
Since I just started crying because I thought of Sir Terry and that he isn't with us anymore, I need this right now. I love Granny (almost as much as Vimes). Later books that make it more clear how powerful she actually is have a great insight with the topic of power, I think.
I’m loving that you’re reviewing and loving Discworld! I also read it chronologically, but that’s mostly because there were maybe 5 books when I started. His books are so layered and full of references, have a unique charm and still manage to kick society in the wossnames. And they make a refreshing break from high-fantasy heavyweights. 😊
Maybe it's been too long since I read Equal Rites (It's always been too long since I read ANY Discworld book), but the way I remember it, neither version of magic was considered better than the other, it was just that men and women went about things differently, and that was accepted and fine. Until it wasn't. And "find the place where everything is balanced, and you push" reminds me so much of Douglas Adams with his "Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground, and miss."
i finished the book this afternoon, and i just finished my book club discussion -- i loved Equal Rites! and now listening to your thoughts i think i love it even more~
The prose was so great and funny. My favourite one was where the witch in her tent sat and her opulent jewelry sounded like the brass section went over a cliff. 😂
Please also make sure to read the Tiffany Aching novels! They are great! While they are technically written for a younger audience, they really don't feel like it. They als dive deeper into the way that witch-magic works! Even more so than the witches' books in the main series, I think.
Currently re reading Tiffany Aching and I had forgotten just how dark it is! I actually wouldn't recommend it for anyone too young. The focus on death and dying as well as some of the darker aspects of humanity might be a bit much for young readers.
@@mumsageek1883 Yeah, I remember when after reading something bleak (could be a Peter Watts novel) I went to "I Shall Wear Midnight" for a palate cleanser. It worked in the end, but the beginning hits you over the head with a domestic violence and does not let up for quite a while…
Withces is my favorite Discworld "storyline" so happy you started it! Wyrd Sister is my favorite Pratchett book, can´t wait for you to read it! Im so happy
13:56 True, Pratchett did write a lot of characters willing to listen to the opinions of others and discuss things with a view to resolution - but I feel like people generally (in real life) were more inclined this way at the time. This willingness is the most commendable way to approach contentious subjects, I think, but now it seems like most people take the most extreme position they can and steadfastly refuse to be reasoned with.
Granny does have some herb lore and she has nature themed magic and also (when pushed) a frightening amount of raw power but when she talks about 'Headology' she just does not know the word psychology. She knows the very non-magical art of manipulating people for their own good, she gets into their heads.
I just finished reading Equal Rites last night, my first time reading it despite being a longtime Pratchett fan. Loved it, and really enjoyed your take on it. Your sheer delight at Pratchett's prose makes me appreciate it anew. You're in for a real treat with later books, there's a lot more Granny Weatherwax and she keeps getting better and better. [Spoilers for Equal Rites AND A Wizard of Earthsea!] I noticed some unexpected parallels between Equal Rites and A Wizard of Earthsea towards the end. The frozen/solidified sea, the idea of fighting a shadow of yourself, and the importance of knowing when NOT to do magic - these are all parts of A Wizard of Earthsea, though viewed through a skewed Pratchettian lens.
I think this is the first book where Pratchett starts asking more "Why?" questions, and I think he gets better at it as he goes (not that Equal Rites is bad, quite the contrary). I also thought "Headology" was a bit of a satirical twist on the idea that while women are less "powerful" they have the ability to manipulate, or get into your "head" as it were, which is a sort of magic all its own. But, maybe I read way too much into that.
I Loved this book... I love all the books about the witches. About this one, the only complaint I have is... Why not explore the women in wizardry again in other books about the wizards and unseen university?
I hope that when you get to the time they came out that youvalso read the Science of Discworld books. While they aren't counted among the 41, they do have some story elements to them that impact a few later books.
I always thought equal rites was written for a young Rihanna she has said in the past that she chose to write for computer games because she felt if she became an author her career would be judged with an assumption of nepotism ("she's only published because her dad is terry pratchett") which wouldn't happen if she was a son granny's character is based on his own grandmother who was very influential in stp's life so her being a mentor to esk
The witches is my favorite series in discworld, and granny is my favorite character. And she is just getting started here. I’m so glad you took the time to highlight the prose. This is one of Pratchett’s strong points imo.
I think you may have slightly misunderstood something. The wizards don't think witches are only good for having babies. Witches are involved in midwifery. So they help with childbirth. This is very typically thought of as "women's work". And on the Discworld, this is mostly true.
Interesting observation! And to be fair that’s hard to really understand from this book, but truly gets fleshed out by later works that focus on the three witches and the Tiffany Aching stories. But I agree, it’s like he hadn’t quite defined his edges for witchcraft yet and the wizards definitely didn’t understand women, so it almost works on that level too. Cool cool cool
About how magic would work, I think I am more on your side because we wouldn't really consider it magic if it was easy to study scientifically. Well I guess it could have been hard in the past and then over time people started understanding underlying mechanics.
Granny is my #1 favorite Pratchett character. Also Death. and Vimes, and Nobby, and Rincewind, and Susan, and Tiffany, and... In conclusion, buckle up :D it's gonna be a ride (a bumpy one, Granny's broom is a character as well).
You mentioning how you love the prose, combined with your well documented fascination for nautical stories, reminded me of what the Stepbrothers almost said: "Boats and prose Boats and prose Gotta have me my Boats and prose" Then I laughed that headlaugh that's just for me, but decided to open the door for those few who will see this comment so they could have whatever reaction they find themselves having.
One quibble: you say "chronological" when I believe you mean publication order. A few of the books (namely Small Gods) take place out of order, and one book has a time jump in the middle in which other books take place.
Spot on about the questioning nature of his books. Warlocks however are somewhat a rarity on the disc. It's definitely male =s Wizzard not warlock... With the exception of" The Department of Post-Mortem Communications " @ the UU.
Others have commented pretty well on Witch magic, but there's another aspect to it - telepathy. That is, their talking to and even possessing animals. "I ATEN'T DEAD". Granny calls it Borrowing, but it's more than that - she has to communicate with the critters before she Borrows them, and it has side effects, just like wizard magic (in the case of Borrowing, the side effects are losing yourself in the animal mind you're Borrowing).
Adding to this: Wizards are kind of awful at telepathy in all forms. In fact, their total lack of awareness of others mindsets is likely a reason why they can be such complete and utter berks.
I think Magic would work like the pactverse. Which is to say that it'd be built around patterns and grooves worn into the universe over generations. The "Science" approach then tells you "If X then Y". But that's not quite right. Because you can just about bend it so it's "Kind-of-X" and "Kind-of-y". For a boon, you can sacrifice a ram, or you can sacrifice a stuffed sheep toy that you've loved as a kid. The latter might even be more powerful. Eventually, the ritual "Opens up" because it understood the way Ram led to Toy, and so now it'll take basically anything the person is attached to. A Ram also works though, and will always work. It's just the force behind the ritual has been led down a line of thought where other stuff now also works. In time, people might forget about the ram entirely. Until one clever clogs comes along and demands the boon of "The blood of my enemies" and sacrifices a ram. The old, violent version, and reminds the ritual of who it used to be, and it gives him a very powerful boon, for example. It's more fluid in the pactverse, it can be "Understood", but it's also murky.
I'm not sure if this is already part of the plan, but if you're interested in the magic system you should read the Science of Discworld books as part of the reading order (which isn't for a while yet, anyway). They're structed as one fictional chapter written by Pratchett, then a chapter on real science by Stewart and Cohen (that's Jack Cohen the scientist, not Cohen the Barbarian >
Yeah, those four books are dense but interesting. The Folklore of Discworld is also well worth it but not structured in the same way so not as essential but definitely a good insight.
Also, yeah, if only for The Sea and the Little Fishes is a great character study and a nice bridge between the original Witches boos and the inter-witch politics of the Tiffany books.
@@wolervine yes very good read! I didn't mention that due to it not containing any story elements (iirc), but there is such a wealth of Discworld-related books (and even academic articles) out there that really add to the enjoyment of the series, both by Pterry and others. My two favourite authors are Pratchett and Tolkien - very different writers, very different politics and beliefs, but both equally good for just getting super deep into the work and completely nerding out >
I rarely notice excellent prose while I am reading it - I only miss it when a book doesn't have it. And then I need to go back to Pratchett, Gaiman or Morgenstern to really appreciate their talent and skill💜
And like wizard men might have a tendency of power driven jobs, but they are pit again each other and live a greater pressure of competition, as on the which side they tend to be more collaborative having each their own space, not searching to eliminate each other to get the big hat. There is some truth to that.
This is my favorite of the early couple of discworld books. I also freaking loved Pyramids, which I think is supposed to be one of the worse Discworld books, so who knows. I'm only eight deep here, so I have still have plenty left to add to my "best of" list
I highly doubt any of this was some fate thing, or the world deciding it's time for this to happen. For one, Discworld's Fate is kind of a stuffy asshole who is not the sort to go changing things like this or doing anything this prone to causing chaos. Given how such things work on the Disc, it's more likely that all forces/deities involved with this simply assumed that Esk would be the eighth son of an eighth and so be a Wizard, and just forgot to check to make sure she was actually going to be a boy till it was too late. I do love the distinction between Witch and Wizard magic and how much Pratchett makes clear both are wholly viable routes with their own strengths and weaknesses. And it's more about outlook, Witches try to find the way to do the most change, with the least effort, to be subtle, to just, nudge things here and there to get the outcome they want. Wizards, are more brute force, tell the laws of physics to sit down, shut up, you are going to do what you want! Though 'headology' isn't part of the magic, or really anything to do with herbs, or being close to the earth. it's just Granny being really, really good at understanding people and at knowing how to get them to think the way she wants them to, as well as knowing that a lot of the issues people have are more all in their heads, or that you need to phrase things in certain ways to make them actually do what they need to. Tell someone "Do this exercise three times a day to help with that stiff back" and they will just 'ah whatever' and forget about it after a few days, explain it as "You must perform this secret, mystic ritual that involves moving in this precise pattern (that just happens to be the same as the aforementioned exercise) three times per day to banish the evil spirit that is hurting your back!" they will pay more attention.
I think you're going to love how the Witches develop, Granny Weatherwax just gets better and better. One thing - that whole "women's brains overheat" reminded me of the old Harry Enfield sketch : "Women Know Your Limits" ua-cam.com/video/LS37SNYjg8w/v-deo.html
Love watching discover discworld. Granny becomes the best character in the series from Lord's & Ladies onward. Wait till you meet Nanny Ogg, you aren't ready for the songs.
You won't be seeing Esk again for a very long time, which, yes, is a shame. Glad you love Granny already, you're only going to love her more as she comes into her own in the upcoming books.
Thanks for the recommendation, I have just bought the first book to try. Another series that represents magic as science with a military slant is The Irregular at Magic High School. Although I will worn anyone interested in reading it, the main two characters are a brother and sister, and the sister is in love with her brother.
Magic feels more like tapping into universal energies that make the magic user seem like a dust mote. A magic user trying to harness and control magic seem to parallel a fisherman in the center of the ocean during a hurricane saying "I got this.". Never underestimate nature... you'll get squashed.
I’ve read through the series a few times now and I tell people that unless there’s a certain book that really calls to you, read in chronological order. The world building stacks enough where there are references you miss , but after the first read through then if you want to carve out a sub-series like the witches, wizards, guards, Industrial Revolution, or any of the stand alone books it’s much more enjoyable. A lot of people do like Merphy did here, start somewhere in the middle with guards/death/tc but then come back to the beginning anyway.
I actually wouldn't recommend starting with The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic. Pratchett was still figuring out what Discworld would be, so they're not the best representation of the series. I'd recommend starting with either Small Gods or Guards! Guards!.
If only modern gender discourse could be even half as nuanced as this book. I really love your take on soft magic, I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, as far as I can remember, we don't see esk again in the Discworld series. It's been over a decade since I last read the books though so I could be wrong.
Gender discourse is this nuanced, in academia and in the communities who are engaged it it. You just won't get that impression if the only place you hear about it is Fox news or whatever.
Regarding magic systems, personally I like the approach to be similar to how the culture approaches other natural forces: (Spoilers for each of these series in their magic systems, I'm putting the series in first, so skip that point if it's something you've not experienced -In the Stormlight Archive, people tend to approach surgebinding with the same kind of methodical thoughtfulness that surgeons and scholars use elsewhere in that world. -In the Magnus Archives, it's repeatedly said that the supernatural stuff going on is complex and doesn't operate on human levels of logic, but the best understanding of it comes from a Victorian age scholar who developed a taxonomy of Fears and that provides a loose working model that isn't *quite* 100% right but is close enough most of the time. That kind of approach fits in with real world Victorian attempts to explain the universe and how a lot of modern conceptions of it used in the Western World are those ideas just tweaked and refined to better match reality. -In Avatar the Last Airbender, understanding of the world is largely a spiritual one, and the magic reflects that. Water covers healing not because of a hard and fast mechanical reason, but because water is spiritually associated with healing. Metalbending is a type of earthbending not because iron is a prevalent element in the earth's crust, but because it's a refined version of a material dug out of the earth. -In Malazan Book of the Fallen, the overall level of scientific development is vaguely medieval. Like...they have explosives, but only because this one group of people knows how to make them and the Empire made an alliance with them and gained an immense martial advantage as a result of it. Similarly, the understanding of Warrens is fairly vague. Ancient like the various Tiste and such are wilder and more potent but also more raw, and the Warrens and Holds associated with those peoples are similarly wilder and more potent and more raw. -Conversely, in The Wheel of Time, the Seanchan fall flat for me in large part because of the combination of omen reading that hearkens back to classical Greco-Roman cultures with the sophistication of being able to create new ter-angreal leashes, something the White Tower considers lost to the Age of Wonders until Elayne figures out how to create copies. To me, this is a nonsequiter on the level of having a story that's about the Roman empire except their navy is using steam powered ironclads. I...what? No! More things need to be different!
In terms of the witch vs wizard magic. The further we go in Discworld we see how Pratchett really wants to showcase just how the Witches' magic is actually helpful to communities to people and the world in general; and the Wizards' magic does squat all--they rarely help in any useful way and are too pumped up on their own elite academia actually get in and do anything. It's definitely a big comment on society (not necessarily men and women's traditional roles or whatever) but a mirror on the hypocrifulness that is elitism vs community based getting in and doing shit. Oh something like that ...
I love how the most important part of both male and female coded magic on the disc is mostly "don't". The wizards sit around and theorize (and are generally kind of useless) and the women mostly use psychology to convince regular people to do the right thing (and are generally way more practical). The wizards are ivory tower academea, the witches are rooted in their society, and in later books it's incredibly clear Terry loves one waaaay more, hahaha
Looking at the themes throughout the first half of the books, you could also draw parallels to trans issues imo. Esk was bestowed with wizards magic, she didn’t choose it and maybe it shouldn’t have happened but it did. Feeling it unnatural, her family tried to raise her out if it. It failed. So instead, Granny tried to teach her as a witch. And Esk almost lost herself in the most literal sense in the process. So the only option she saw left to her was do the "unnatural" thing and let Esk be schooled as a wizard.
Hello mephy I love you very much I really want to to recommend jujutsu Kaisen, I hadn't that great of a experience reading manga week to week since One piece. It's a fight shonen more than one piece but there is a lot of horror as a genre as well, a lot of junji Ito reference. I'ma gonna change my name
Yes! JJK is so great. It's not absurdist in the way One Piece is. Its roots are Bleach and HxH. It takes a while for any significant plot to kick in. Most of the earlier part (until the flashback) is just getting to know the characters and the magic/power system. Then the plot starts. I mean, there are various incidents, but not a cohesive whole. But as Merphy has read HxH she would be understanding of this.
@@wolervine Yes you're right. And Sourcery add some value. As I see it as a soft reboot. I actually liked it much more than I tought. Enough to break chronology and go straight to Eric Illustrated to see what's next. But then Wyrd Sister so back to the witches that she likes so much right now.
If you can understand magic "like science," then it is literally science. I think magic HAS to be unexplainable. That's something inherent in its definition. It's like the classic quote from Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It's why I don't love Sanderson's magic systems, with all the rules clearly outlined and explained. It's also like I'm reading the manual of a video game...
i like Terry Pratchett. I like Diskworld. I really liked Esk and "Equal Rites". Sadly though, i feel Terry Pratchett did not like Esk or Equal Rites, as he never mentions Esk again, even though both the Wizards and Granny Weatherwax feature prominently in other books. This I feel undermines any point he was trying to make in Equal Rites. Wizards are still always men, and Witches are still always women.
For me, Simon's character exists to contrast the experience of boys and girls growing up and excelling. Esk and Simon are both individually naturally talented and attract wizard's magic, but Esk is actively drawn away from it as she grows whereas Simon is nurtured and held in high esteem, particularly when he arrives at the university. Everyone (including Granny) assumes men only can be wizards and women only can be witches, and the only reason for that is because evidently men ARE currently all wizards. The snooty and elitist attitude of the wizards at the university is somewhat owing to their innate superiority by virtue of being men, and therefore their innate talent and ability. They react almost aggressively to Esk's attempt to enter into their world as it threatens their system of beliefs, and the idea of women sharing their talent is unfathomable.
i think what you're missing here, because you need to read more with granny =), but headology is not strictly speaking women's magic. headology is basically psychology but without the bullshit, esp because they do live in a highly magical world. its understanding people and how their minds work. a lot of the things she does, the image, the idea of a witch, is simply because she is aware of the minds of people. village people and how they think, city people and how they think. and she uses those ideas. those stories. as you get further in, you will find other witches and how they use women's magic. and its not all headology. women's magic is really just the mentality of women but approaching magic. same with wizard magic. it is the way it is because of the difference in femininity and masculinity. but in equal rights its showing that sometimes a person does not fit into just one way of it, sometime a person is both. not because they want to break the system but in a natural sort of way, its who they are.
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I've always viewed Granny's 'Headology' as Discworld's version of psychology - with her being able to convince people to do the thing she needs them to do without really even having to do any magic at all, but just by using a combination of insight into human nature, her affected status, and the suggestion of magic as a kind of placebo effect. The result being that her targets are often left wondering exactly how she managed to get them to do what she wanted, so it must have been magic! My impression has always been that Granny gets more satisifaction knowing she could use magic, but rarely needs to, to solve her problems.
“You don’t help people with magic, you help people with skin.”
It's definitely psychology.
Regarding Granny, there is a HUGE development of character between this book and Wyrd Sisters. This is Proto-Granny, hold on to your hat. 🧙♀️
Our Murphy is in for a ride
Yep grmmy is one of the best discworld characters.
You are so right - very perceptive. Pratchett does not demonise those people who are ''wrong', as it were. He will make fun of their intransigence, but he will show where it comes from. They don't even necessarily have any ill will towards this girl, they've just never been challenged in what they assume is right. He is kind towards his characters. A black and white villain is boring. Pratchett doesn't see good guys and bad guys, just people.
Headology is not to do with herbs. Essentially, it's Granny Weatherwax's version of psychology (except she would never have truck with such a word). She intuitively understands how a lot of people's minds work, and uses that for her purposes (e.g. curing people of diseases, or deflecting them from understanding what she actually did). She does also work with herbs. But she can also do magic - she just prefers not to. That's the great thing about Granny - we know she's actually very powerful, but she prefers to be clever.
And it's interesting what you said at the start about Eskarina being "meant" to be a wizard (it's wizard, not warlock - a warlocks would be a male witch). But the staff found her, so I think that just means that although wizards might be prejudiced, a magical staff is not.
Pratchett is not really into 'chosen one' mythos as a whole. The Discworld is more chaotic than that. He's more like "Stuff happens. We muddle through".
Wonderfully Put.
The philosopher Didactylos has summed up an alternative hypothesis as "Things just happen. What the hell".
Hogfather
Headology is more complicated then just psychologie. Diskworld is a setting where perception is reality and belief is strong enought to create the thing it believes in. The magic in headologie is to use that power to make ppl sort of magic themselves. So while Granny might not be watching the road to see what is comming. Her belief in that that would work to trick ppl into thinking she knows who it is by magic is enougth to enable her to actaully know who it is. Or when she sets her own hand on fire to free herself from a vodo doll. It's not that she set the doll on fire herself. She just made the user of the doll believe that it would work like that and therefor it did.
"I'm gonna read it to you again. You weren't listening close enough!" 😂 This is why we reread these books so much. There's always more to catch. I'm so happy you're discovering the Disc and loving as much as I do. I think I'll go back and read along with you. Have fun!
You’ll love the rest of the witches books. Granny is such a great character.
Good News: Granny reappears in just a few books-book 6 Wyrd Sisters-which is probably my favorite early Pratchett book, either that or Guards! Guards!
Bad News: Eske is not in that book so I guess temper your expectations a bit.
However, there are new witches that I am certain you will adore. I am very very excited for you to meet Nanny Ogg and Magrat this fall.
Esk does however show up way, way later again in a Tiffany Aching book though.
awe such a shame that we don't continue with Eske, though I'm thrilled to get more granny!
@@merphynapierreviews This is speculation, but I think Pratchett just found Granny more fun to write. I kind of ponder if she was originally supposed to have a smaller role in the story, like the classic "mentor" character, but she turned out to be such a strong character that she ended up more of a main character than Esk. Even in Equal Rites, Granny is the one who goes through the biggest character arc and the one who develops the most.
(You kinda see something similar with Vimes and Carrot in the Watch novels; Pratchett has admitted that he'd originally intended for Carrot to be the main character, but Vimes just kind of took over because he was the more interesting protagonist. Of course Carrot did still have a large role in the books.)
There's a LOT more Granny Weatherwax in upcoming books, though. And, without going into any sort of details, she's going to go through a LOT more development and we get to explore her a LOT more. Equal Rites is just the start of her journey. (And Esk is not the last young girl she takes on a mentor role towards.)
Witches vs wizards is a bit like the difference between psychologist vs surgeon. Both are complex medical fields, and need a high degree of expertise. Fixing people in very different ways. But are often very different people who persue understanding of thoughts vs bodies.
I will love to see your review of Wyrd Sisters.
Since I just started crying because I thought of Sir Terry and that he isn't with us anymore, I need this right now.
I love Granny (almost as much as Vimes). Later books that make it more clear how powerful she actually is have a great insight with the topic of power, I think.
I’m loving that you’re reviewing and loving Discworld!
I also read it chronologically, but that’s mostly because there were maybe 5 books when I started.
His books are so layered and full of references, have a unique charm and still manage to kick society in the wossnames.
And they make a refreshing break from high-fantasy heavyweights. 😊
Maybe it's been too long since I read Equal Rites (It's always been too long since I read ANY Discworld book), but the way I remember it, neither version of magic was considered better than the other, it was just that men and women went about things differently, and that was accepted and fine. Until it wasn't.
And "find the place where everything is balanced, and you push" reminds me so much of Douglas Adams with his "Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground, and miss."
Satellites can do it ...
I love so much that you are reading this series! Love the videos!
i finished the book this afternoon, and i just finished my book club discussion -- i loved Equal Rites!
and now listening to your thoughts i think i love it even more~
I’ve probably read all of the Discworld books ten times. You’re getting me excited to read them again. Can’t wait for the next video.
The prose was so great and funny. My favourite one was where the witch in her tent sat and her opulent jewelry sounded like the brass section went over a cliff. 😂
Please also make sure to read the Tiffany Aching novels! They are great! While they are technically written for a younger audience, they really don't feel like it. They als dive deeper into the way that witch-magic works! Even more so than the witches' books in the main series, I think.
Currently re reading Tiffany Aching and I had forgotten just how dark it is! I actually wouldn't recommend it for anyone too young. The focus on death and dying as well as some of the darker aspects of humanity might be a bit much for young readers.
@@mumsageek1883 Yeah, I remember when after reading something bleak (could be a Peter Watts novel) I went to "I Shall Wear Midnight" for a palate cleanser. It worked in the end, but the beginning hits you over the head with a domestic violence and does not let up for quite a while…
Withces is my favorite Discworld "storyline" so happy you started it! Wyrd Sister is my favorite Pratchett book, can´t wait for you to read it!
Im so happy
13:56 True, Pratchett did write a lot of characters willing to listen to the opinions of others and discuss things with a view to resolution - but I feel like people generally (in real life) were more inclined this way at the time. This willingness is the most commendable way to approach contentious subjects, I think, but now it seems like most people take the most extreme position they can and steadfastly refuse to be reasoned with.
Granny does have some herb lore and she has nature themed magic and also (when pushed) a frightening amount of raw power but when she talks about 'Headology' she just does not know the word psychology. She knows the very non-magical art of manipulating people for their own good, she gets into their heads.
Seeing your enthusiasm urges me to reread all of the Discworld. 😀
I'm so happy that you like it. 😊
I just finished reading Equal Rites last night, my first time reading it despite being a longtime Pratchett fan. Loved it, and really enjoyed your take on it. Your sheer delight at Pratchett's prose makes me appreciate it anew. You're in for a real treat with later books, there's a lot more Granny Weatherwax and she keeps getting better and better.
[Spoilers for Equal Rites AND A Wizard of Earthsea!] I noticed some unexpected parallels between Equal Rites and A Wizard of Earthsea towards the end. The frozen/solidified sea, the idea of fighting a shadow of yourself, and the importance of knowing when NOT to do magic - these are all parts of A Wizard of Earthsea, though viewed through a skewed Pratchettian lens.
I can't wait for Merphy to read Mort. It's one of my favourites in Discworld, it's so so good.
GOOD
I love this book! It's waiting in my daughter's bookshelf for her to pick it up when the time is right.
I'm really excited for you to finally start reading the witches series. Can't wait for you to meet Gree.... khm, well you'll see! 😉😁
I think this is the first book where Pratchett starts asking more "Why?" questions, and I think he gets better at it as he goes (not that Equal Rites is bad, quite the contrary). I also thought "Headology" was a bit of a satirical twist on the idea that while women are less "powerful" they have the ability to manipulate, or get into your "head" as it were, which is a sort of magic all its own. But, maybe I read way too much into that.
I Loved this book...
I love all the books about the witches.
About this one, the only complaint I have is... Why not explore the women in wizardry again in other books about the wizards and unseen university?
I was worried there for a second...thanks for the video Merphy.
I hope that when you get to the time they came out that youvalso read the Science of Discworld books. While they aren't counted among the 41, they do have some story elements to them that impact a few later books.
I always thought equal rites was written for a young Rihanna she has said in the past that she chose to write for computer games because she felt if she became an author her career would be judged with an assumption of nepotism ("she's only published because her dad is terry pratchett") which wouldn't happen if she was a son granny's character is based on his own grandmother who was very influential in stp's life so her being a mentor to esk
Also i think the staff thing has more to do with narrativium than esk being a chosen one
And i will never get tired of seeing reviewers minds being blown by Pratchett's prose
The witches is my favorite series in discworld, and granny is my favorite character. And she is just getting started here.
I’m so glad you took the time to highlight the prose. This is one of Pratchett’s strong points imo.
I think you may have slightly misunderstood something. The wizards don't think witches are only good for having babies. Witches are involved in midwifery. So they help with childbirth. This is very typically thought of as "women's work". And on the Discworld, this is mostly true.
Interesting observation! And to be fair that’s hard to really understand from this book, but truly gets fleshed out by later works that focus on the three witches and the Tiffany Aching stories. But I agree, it’s like he hadn’t quite defined his edges for witchcraft yet and the wizards definitely didn’t understand women, so it almost works on that level too. Cool cool cool
About how magic would work, I think I am more on your side because we wouldn't really consider it magic if it was easy to study scientifically. Well I guess it could have been hard in the past and then over time people started understanding underlying mechanics.
The difference between Witches and Wizards on the disc is the difference between pomposity and pride.
Granny is my #1 favorite Pratchett character. Also Death. and Vimes, and Nobby, and Rincewind, and Susan, and Tiffany, and...
In conclusion, buckle up :D it's gonna be a ride (a bumpy one, Granny's broom is a character as well).
That's written based on Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books as the master said. She gave the idea.
You mentioning how you love the prose, combined with your well documented fascination for nautical stories, reminded me of what the Stepbrothers almost said:
"Boats and prose
Boats and prose
Gotta have me my
Boats and prose"
Then I laughed that headlaugh that's just for me, but decided to open the door for those few who will see this comment so they could have whatever reaction they find themselves having.
I love Granny Weatherwax! So much!❤
Weatherwax is one of my favorite characters in fiction.
One quibble: you say "chronological" when I believe you mean publication order. A few of the books (namely Small Gods) take place out of order, and one book has a time jump in the middle in which other books take place.
Can I just say how much I love the title of the book?
Spot on about the questioning nature of his books.
Warlocks however are somewhat a rarity on the disc.
It's definitely male =s Wizzard not warlock...
With the exception of" The Department of Post-Mortem Communications " @ the UU.
Ive benn waiting for this
Wyrd Sisters is book #6! ❤
Others have commented pretty well on Witch magic, but there's another aspect to it - telepathy. That is, their talking to and even possessing animals. "I ATEN'T DEAD". Granny calls it Borrowing, but it's more than that - she has to communicate with the critters before she Borrows them, and it has side effects, just like wizard magic (in the case of Borrowing, the side effects are losing yourself in the animal mind you're Borrowing).
Adding to this: Wizards are kind of awful at telepathy in all forms. In fact, their total lack of awareness of others mindsets is likely a reason why they can be such complete and utter berks.
Well, you just made me start a new series 😂
I think Magic would work like the pactverse. Which is to say that it'd be built around patterns and grooves worn into the universe over generations.
The "Science" approach then tells you "If X then Y". But that's not quite right. Because you can just about bend it so it's "Kind-of-X" and "Kind-of-y".
For a boon, you can sacrifice a ram, or you can sacrifice a stuffed sheep toy that you've loved as a kid. The latter might even be more powerful. Eventually, the ritual "Opens up" because it understood the way Ram led to Toy, and so now it'll take basically anything the person is attached to. A Ram also works though, and will always work. It's just the force behind the ritual has been led down a line of thought where other stuff now also works.
In time, people might forget about the ram entirely. Until one clever clogs comes along and demands the boon of "The blood of my enemies" and sacrifices a ram. The old, violent version, and reminds the ritual of who it used to be, and it gives him a very powerful boon, for example.
It's more fluid in the pactverse, it can be "Understood", but it's also murky.
I'm not sure if this is already part of the plan, but if you're interested in the magic system you should read the Science of Discworld books as part of the reading order (which isn't for a while yet, anyway). They're structed as one fictional chapter written by Pratchett, then a chapter on real science by Stewart and Cohen (that's Jack Cohen the scientist, not Cohen the Barbarian >
Yeah, those four books are dense but interesting.
The Folklore of Discworld is also well worth it but not structured in the same way so not as essential but definitely a good insight.
Also, yeah, if only for The Sea and the Little Fishes is a great character study and a nice bridge between the original Witches boos and the inter-witch politics of the Tiffany books.
@@wolervine yes very good read! I didn't mention that due to it not containing any story elements (iirc), but there is such a wealth of Discworld-related books (and even academic articles) out there that really add to the enjoyment of the series, both by Pterry and others.
My two favourite authors are Pratchett and Tolkien - very different writers, very different politics and beliefs, but both equally good for just getting super deep into the work and completely nerding out >
I kinda feel bad that she’s looking forward to seeing Eskarina in the next books lol
It's not a huge wait. 👀
I rarely notice excellent prose while I am reading it - I only miss it when a book doesn't have it. And then I need to go back to Pratchett, Gaiman or Morgenstern to really appreciate their talent and skill💜
I hope you get around to the Tiffany Aching series eventually, too many people pass over those.
Which edition do you have I have? Haven't seen those style normally it's those cool cartoon pictures all over the cover
US versions have those simplistic pictures on the front.
@@wolervine so disappointing
And like wizard men might have a tendency of power driven jobs, but they are pit again each other and live a greater pressure of competition, as on the which side they tend to be more collaborative having each their own space, not searching to eliminate each other to get the big hat. There is some truth to that.
Lol wow i can actually read along since i have all his books.
I am definitely more of a hard magic person but god do I still love Pratchett’s magic
Very Entertaining story
This is my favorite of the early couple of discworld books. I also freaking loved Pyramids, which I think is supposed to be one of the worse Discworld books, so who knows. I'm only eight deep here, so I have still have plenty left to add to my "best of" list
I highly doubt any of this was some fate thing, or the world deciding it's time for this to happen. For one, Discworld's Fate is kind of a stuffy asshole who is not the sort to go changing things like this or doing anything this prone to causing chaos. Given how such things work on the Disc, it's more likely that all forces/deities involved with this simply assumed that Esk would be the eighth son of an eighth and so be a Wizard, and just forgot to check to make sure she was actually going to be a boy till it was too late.
I do love the distinction between Witch and Wizard magic and how much Pratchett makes clear both are wholly viable routes with their own strengths and weaknesses. And it's more about outlook, Witches try to find the way to do the most change, with the least effort, to be subtle, to just, nudge things here and there to get the outcome they want. Wizards, are more brute force, tell the laws of physics to sit down, shut up, you are going to do what you want!
Though 'headology' isn't part of the magic, or really anything to do with herbs, or being close to the earth. it's just Granny being really, really good at understanding people and at knowing how to get them to think the way she wants them to, as well as knowing that a lot of the issues people have are more all in their heads, or that you need to phrase things in certain ways to make them actually do what they need to. Tell someone "Do this exercise three times a day to help with that stiff back" and they will just 'ah whatever' and forget about it after a few days, explain it as "You must perform this secret, mystic ritual that involves moving in this precise pattern (that just happens to be the same as the aforementioned exercise) three times per day to banish the evil spirit that is hurting your back!" they will pay more attention.
welcome to Granny Weatherwax
Sounds like a good book
I think you're going to love how the Witches develop, Granny Weatherwax just gets better and better. One thing - that whole "women's brains overheat" reminded me of the old Harry Enfield sketch : "Women Know Your Limits"
ua-cam.com/video/LS37SNYjg8w/v-deo.html
Love watching discover discworld. Granny becomes the best character in the series from Lord's & Ladies onward. Wait till you meet Nanny Ogg, you aren't ready for the songs.
You won't be seeing Esk again for a very long time, which, yes, is a shame. Glad you love Granny already, you're only going to love her more as she comes into her own in the upcoming books.
Shes such a powerful entity, I hold her up in the same regard as baba yaga
The new author I love right now is Carlos Zen because his story uses magic as a science in military usage.
Book: The Saga of Tanya the Evil
Thanks for the recommendation, I have just bought the first book to try. Another series that represents magic as science with a military slant is The Irregular at Magic High School. Although I will worn anyone interested in reading it, the main two characters are a brother and sister, and the sister is in love with her brother.
Magic feels more like tapping into universal energies that make the magic user seem like a dust mote. A magic user trying to harness and control magic seem to parallel a fisherman in the center of the ocean during a hurricane saying "I got this.". Never underestimate nature... you'll get squashed.
Is it best to read Discworld chronologically or do you have a recommended starting point?
I say chronologically but everyone has a different opinion.😅
I’ve read through the series a few times now and I tell people that unless there’s a certain book that really calls to you, read in chronological order. The world building stacks enough where there are references you miss , but after the first read through then if you want to carve out a sub-series like the witches, wizards, guards, Industrial Revolution, or any of the stand alone books it’s much more enjoyable. A lot of people do like Merphy did here, start somewhere in the middle with guards/death/tc but then come back to the beginning anyway.
Chronological order but don’t be put off if the first two don’t appeal to you. Pratchett changes from parody to social satire after those.
I actually wouldn't recommend starting with The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic. Pratchett was still figuring out what Discworld would be, so they're not the best representation of the series. I'd recommend starting with either Small Gods or Guards! Guards!.
there are subseriedepending what you like thematic most. and they are all good starting points.
If only modern gender discourse could be even half as nuanced as this book.
I really love your take on soft magic, I wholeheartedly agree.
Unfortunately, as far as I can remember, we don't see esk again in the Discworld series. It's been over a decade since I last read the books though so I could be wrong.
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We do, in the penultimate Tiffany book, four or five books from the end of the series
Gender discourse is this nuanced, in academia and in the communities who are engaged it it. You just won't get that impression if the only place you hear about it is Fox news or whatever.
Regarding magic systems, personally I like the approach to be similar to how the culture approaches other natural forces: (Spoilers for each of these series in their magic systems, I'm putting the series in first, so skip that point if it's something you've not experienced
-In the Stormlight Archive, people tend to approach surgebinding with the same kind of methodical thoughtfulness that surgeons and scholars use elsewhere in that world.
-In the Magnus Archives, it's repeatedly said that the supernatural stuff going on is complex and doesn't operate on human levels of logic, but the best understanding of it comes from a Victorian age scholar who developed a taxonomy of Fears and that provides a loose working model that isn't *quite* 100% right but is close enough most of the time. That kind of approach fits in with real world Victorian attempts to explain the universe and how a lot of modern conceptions of it used in the Western World are those ideas just tweaked and refined to better match reality.
-In Avatar the Last Airbender, understanding of the world is largely a spiritual one, and the magic reflects that. Water covers healing not because of a hard and fast mechanical reason, but because water is spiritually associated with healing. Metalbending is a type of earthbending not because iron is a prevalent element in the earth's crust, but because it's a refined version of a material dug out of the earth.
-In Malazan Book of the Fallen, the overall level of scientific development is vaguely medieval. Like...they have explosives, but only because this one group of people knows how to make them and the Empire made an alliance with them and gained an immense martial advantage as a result of it. Similarly, the understanding of Warrens is fairly vague. Ancient like the various Tiste and such are wilder and more potent but also more raw, and the Warrens and Holds associated with those peoples are similarly wilder and more potent and more raw.
-Conversely, in The Wheel of Time, the Seanchan fall flat for me in large part because of the combination of omen reading that hearkens back to classical Greco-Roman cultures with the sophistication of being able to create new ter-angreal leashes, something the White Tower considers lost to the Age of Wonders until Elayne figures out how to create copies. To me, this is a nonsequiter on the level of having a story that's about the Roman empire except their navy is using steam powered ironclads. I...what? No! More things need to be different!
In terms of the witch vs wizard magic. The further we go in Discworld we see how Pratchett really wants to showcase just how the Witches' magic is actually helpful to communities to people and the world in general; and the Wizards' magic does squat all--they rarely help in any useful way and are too pumped up on their own elite academia actually get in and do anything. It's definitely a big comment on society (not necessarily men and women's traditional roles or whatever) but a mirror on the hypocrifulness that is elitism vs community based getting in and doing shit. Oh something like that ...
I love how the most important part of both male and female coded magic on the disc is mostly "don't". The wizards sit around and theorize (and are generally kind of useless) and the women mostly use psychology to convince regular people to do the right thing (and are generally way more practical). The wizards are ivory tower academea, the witches are rooted in their society, and in later books it's incredibly clear Terry loves one waaaay more, hahaha
Looking at the themes throughout the first half of the books, you could also draw parallels to trans issues imo. Esk was bestowed with wizards magic, she didn’t choose it and maybe it shouldn’t have happened but it did. Feeling it unnatural, her family tried to raise her out if it. It failed. So instead, Granny tried to teach her as a witch. And Esk almost lost herself in the most literal sense in the process. So the only option she saw left to her was do the "unnatural" thing and let Esk be schooled as a wizard.
Spoilers (whole series).
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Whos going to tell Merphy how long she has to wait for Esk's next /only other appearance?😂
That book is too funny right from the beginning. 👏 And how the women think in the world here too, stubbornly. They are just witches and that’s it. 🤟
Hello mephy I love you very much
I really want to to recommend jujutsu Kaisen, I hadn't that great of a experience reading manga week to week since One piece.
It's a fight shonen more than one piece but there is a lot of horror as a genre as well, a lot of junji Ito reference.
I'ma gonna change my name
Can't watch this video though 😭. Cause I wanna read and have spoilers. But I will come back
Yes! JJK is so great. It's not absurdist in the way One Piece is. Its roots are Bleach and HxH. It takes a while for any significant plot to kick in. Most of the earlier part (until the flashback) is just getting to know the characters and the magic/power system. Then the plot starts. I mean, there are various incidents, but not a cohesive whole. But as Merphy has read HxH she would be understanding of this.
You're in for a treat, the next 2 would be Mort and Wyrd Sisters
Mort and Sourcery
@@wolervine Yes you're right. And Sourcery add some value. As I see it as a soft reboot. I actually liked it much more than I tought. Enough to break chronology and go straight to Eric Illustrated to see what's next.
But then Wyrd Sister so back to the witches that she likes so much right now.
Weatherwax sounds like a made up name, but it's a real name. The kid who played Pugsley in the old Addams Family TV series was named Ken Weatherwax.
Not warlock.warlock meant deciever. Breaker of oaths
If you can understand magic "like science," then it is literally science. I think magic HAS to be unexplainable. That's something inherent in its definition. It's like the classic quote from Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It's why I don't love Sanderson's magic systems, with all the rules clearly outlined and explained. It's also like I'm reading the manual of a video game...
That sounds like a novel that I know. I'm the 8th son. Are you kidding me?
i like Terry Pratchett. I like Diskworld. I really liked Esk and "Equal Rites". Sadly though, i feel Terry Pratchett did not like Esk or Equal Rites, as he never mentions Esk again, even though both the Wizards and Granny Weatherwax feature prominently in other books. This I feel undermines any point he was trying to make in Equal Rites. Wizards are still always men, and Witches are still always women.
Men (Wizards) and Women (Witches) can be Equal but different: and that’s ok.
Granny Weatherwax is cool; but Nanny Ogg is Queen.
For me, Simon's character exists to contrast the experience of boys and girls growing up and excelling. Esk and Simon are both individually naturally talented and attract wizard's magic, but Esk is actively drawn away from it as she grows whereas Simon is nurtured and held in high esteem, particularly when he arrives at the university. Everyone (including Granny) assumes men only can be wizards and women only can be witches, and the only reason for that is because evidently men ARE currently all wizards. The snooty and elitist attitude of the wizards at the university is somewhat owing to their innate superiority by virtue of being men, and therefore their innate talent and ability. They react almost aggressively to Esk's attempt to enter into their world as it threatens their system of beliefs, and the idea of women sharing their talent is unfathomable.
i think what you're missing here, because you need to read more with granny =), but headology is not strictly speaking women's magic. headology is basically psychology but without the bullshit, esp because they do live in a highly magical world. its understanding people and how their minds work. a lot of the things she does, the image, the idea of a witch, is simply because she is aware of the minds of people. village people and how they think, city people and how they think. and she uses those ideas. those stories. as you get further in, you will find other witches and how they use women's magic. and its not all headology. women's magic is really just the mentality of women but approaching magic. same with wizard magic. it is the way it is because of the difference in femininity and masculinity. but in equal rights its showing that sometimes a person does not fit into just one way of it, sometime a person is both. not because they want to break the system but in a natural sort of way, its who they are.
:)
I liked Granny in this book. Unfortunately, in the subsequent ones, she turned into somewhat of an asshole-ish mobster.
But that's just my opinion.