Doctor Falls is an argument that the show should end (a horror story about franchises resetting to the status quo). Twice Upon a Time is a case for it carrying on. I believe Doctor Falls probably would not be as uncompromising as it was, if Twice Upon a Time wasn't about to happen. And even there, one of the final beats is; "where there's tears there's hope." If 12 had gotten to see that Bill was alright in the end, that probably would have been the thing to pull him back from the edge.
I can’t think of a more relatably, tragically human take on regeneration than running out, yearning for more life, getting your wish, then on the next one just wanting to be done.
I love that the Twelfth Doctor, who started this incarnation so vehemently against soldiers, ended this regeneration witnessing the Christmas armistice. Twice Upon a Time is a sweet coda focusing on the theme of memory and the nature of life. It’s probably the best way a Doctor has bowed out. Moffat was such a great writer and showrunner.
Bill Potts, as the most ‘classic who’ companions in nuwho, was the absolute perfect choice for this story. She’s the literal manifestation of the student/teacher archetype that the first decade of classic who was all about.
Pretty sure Gold said that Rose's Theme and The Doctor's Theme S1/2 both play because they were the first tracks he composed and he thought it fitting to include them in his final episode (and Doomsday for some reason)
The Peter Capaldi era was the best era of doctor who and I kept feeling like something was missing with the RTD2 specials. I finally realise that that's subtext.
@@robbiemartin9312 See, I've seen this take a few times. But it doesn't make any sense. The pitch seems to be that the not-things are approximations that are ever so slightly not right, but as they get more and more data they can approximate you better and better - and how them being attracted to chaos is a commentary on online divisiveness. There's something to that, but the more you analyze this, once again, the quicker it breaks apart. I've seen someone say "the way they have become malevolent despite being initially lacking in any qualities ties in with the business of algorithms and LLMs and so on not being neutral, because they’re shaped by social structures through their input, e.g. being racist because of the racism in the dataset they’ve been trained on" - but this only makes sense if we read that the whole of reality that they're training on, the "noisy, boiling universe" is biased in this way. But the episode rejects this reading, this isn't why they're tilted towards nastiness. It's because "love letters don't travel very far". Which just sorta undermines the entire metaphor, if this is what Davies is going for. And this flaw in the reading just renders it completely untenable - it doesn't have an explanation for their malevolence, AIs aren't inherently malevolent, they're just piles of linear algebra. The more obvious reading is that it's about insecurity, anxiety, depression, loneliness. I mean, they come from nothing, nowhere, they are Not-Things, they drifted in from the blackness, no shape no form no purpose, etc etc. But this has its own flaws as well. It's just a very muddled episode.
God, thanks for this one. Seeing popular opinion about this particular episode online dominated by the sheer weight of the touch of one popular youtuber who happened to not like it for years has been heartbreaking. There's such a general tendency to refuse to engage with the emotional core of Moffat's writing (which is wild because the guy is constantly aspiring for poetic and romantic language) in favor of some of his more out of touch jokes and "attempts to be clever" (the latter of which can be fun, it's a matter of taste, it's like appreciating puns, idk what to tell you.) If you go into twice upon a time looking for moffatisms you'll find them, but if you go in willing to engage emotionally I really don't see how you'd leave empty-handed.
What a hate about his videos is that he suggestion to make the story better are kinda unreasonable. Like, he hated the clara scene because the doctor only saw clara, he would only be happy if All the the companions ever appeared. And im sure he would complain about the special effects if they did that. I remember so vivid about that point that I stopped then and there to watch his stuff
Best Christmas special easily imo, also the novelisation is a banger, I love the Daleks Master Plan VHS reference that Peter Capaldi just has in his TARDIS
thank you so, so much for this. this is my favourite doctor who story and just one of my favourite episodes of anything. I've never really been able to put why into words because it's so personal to me. it's a suicide story with a happy ending. reaching your lowest, after losing all your friends and you are so desperate to leave. but it's not over, you have so much left. new friends, new feelings, new realisations. I'm still here, I'm still living. I'm reinventing myself. im so young and i have a lot of life left to run. I'm not ready yet. thank you so much for this video.
I enjoyed the specials (well, two and a half of them ig), and I'm exited for Gutwa, but I agree with you about having to change how we see the show. 12's era felt like a step forward, for the first time since 2005 the show really evolved into something new, before going right back to the same old with 13. I really hope 15s run will pick up where 12 left off and the Chibnall era will be a weird footnote in retrospect, but I'm not holding my breath.
Beautiful video, this episode is such a bittersweet treasure, especially with the element of how it's the most mature point the show has ever let the character reach and since then it's just been trying to ape Tenne
That is my very favourite video of yours ❤️ I mean it's lovely just to hear gushing about a beautiful story from two intelligent compassionate people who see It like Clara sees Twelve...but the connections made to _my_ favourite Christmas film, which I hadn't noticed before, implied in images and cutting instead of words, really touched me. That's art! This isn't a commentary, you've made art that reflects a love for another, as all art does. Had me tearing up in that last minute. Everybody is important to someone, somewhere.
I got into Doctor Who a few years ago during a time that was very very hard for me and binged the whole of NuWho in a couple days. Capaldi was my favorite right away because he had a weariness, righteousness, and exhaustion with people that I related to heavily. It's a good thing I hadn't really gotten good at picking apart media yet when I got into it as I probably would've hated his Character Arc at the time as a major cynic, because the arc 12 went on struck a very deep chord with me in a way that I didn't understand at the time. Turns out, I was a very hurt and damaged individual who masked my inability to stop the deep pit that was in my heart trying to escape out my mouth as "realistic" pessimism, and brutal honesty, when really, I was hurting and didn't know how to stop it from leaking out. I can say now that I've grown a lot as a person and strive to be kind whenever I am able. I'm still not always nice though no one ever is, but I work to always be kind if I'm able. And I learned that from Capaldi's Doctor, even if I didn't realize it for a long time.
I did find it funy how one of the last things 12 said to the audience was "be kind" and a percentage of said audience took one look at Jodie and said "he wants us to be kind, break her legs!".
This is an episode I will never consider one of the best - it's not even really got a plot, just a string of interlinking events and settings - but its one I find really endearing. To me it doesn't work on its own, but it is a sterling epilogue to the two episodes that preceded it.
tuat is one of my favourite stories, it's just amazing,. How dare you upload your commentary to my... 3rd?? favourite episode of the new series whilst im drunk
Weirdly, 12 going out on a depressing note might have been a more fitting setup for 13’s characterization as an emotionally closed off and self righteous incarnation (even if said characterization seemed to be largely unintentional). I’m glad we got Twice Upon a Time since Capaldi deserved to go out on a bright note, but it would be super interesting to know the original plan for the 12 to 13 handoff. Also man it’s such a bummer that the Series 10 soundtrack was never officially released, the track that plays when Bill is revived/when the Doctor asks if they can ever have peace is so gorgeous. I hope we get that track in good quality someday. Also, lmao, turns out I didn’t have to wait long to hear Davis’ thoughts on the 60th anniversary specials 😂
I can absolutely relate to you both and the struggles the previous decade brought. I love the twelfth doctor. It was watching this ep again in 2022 that my ego gave in and let me rebuild anew. I lost a lot of people this year, but I found myself.
I just finished my rewatch of the Capaldi era and man… this episode nearly had me in tears. I get where you were coming from now Sam haha. Such a gorgeous send off and declaration of big Moff’s guiding principals for Who. I have some big reservations about the news of him coming back for S14, but this episode really reminded me of why I love Moffat’s writing and what I dearly hope he brings to the new series. Man, I miss Capaldi, Mackie, and Lucas 😢
What a beautiful commentary track - almost as comforting as watching the episode itself. thanks for bringing some joy to what has been an otherwise miserable christmas for me :)
I just finished the video and wow... I wasn't expecting that. Regardless of what I personally think of the story, this video was damn powerful and something I needed to hear. Thanks guys.
I was in the same boat as Ian when this aired. I binged all of classic who in between S9 and S10 and was starting to think about doctor who critically around the time this aired, very much doing the whole hipster thing. As a result, I was too harsh on S10 and perhaps this story most of all. I haven't watched it in a while so I might give it another go around and see if I can pick up on some of the stuff you're both on about here. Then again as much as I love DAVIS's videos (and I really do) I scarcely agree with them haha.
Just wanted to say, I now understand why Rusty the Dalek is in this episode, and with that my biggest remaining problem is gone. But even with the issues I do have this is without question the best multi Doctor special, just for being the one with a reason to be here. Twelve is so thoroughly an end to the Doctor in a meta sense, and seeing where he started, what’s changed and what hasn’t, if you’re making a possible ending (or new beginning as it were), you couldn’t do better.
I'd argue this story is about whether or not Doctor Who should take their own life (negative), and - adjacent to that - whether or not the Twelfth Doctor, after a long long good life, should be allowed to sleep (positive) Realising the Twelfth Doctor _is_ definitively his own person, means he gets to sleep AND Doctor Who can live. I think Twice Upon a Time is sorta the most tender and careful portrayal of every kind of death? 😅 It's this script that made me see beyond technical or tonal niches of Steven's stories, and step back to see the wider truth: what a beautiful, lovely man Steven Moffat is. Look at how much heart and patience and compassion he has to tell this story so right. We are very lucky to have you ❤️
I recently learned that there's public confirmation that he was s*lf h*rming at least subconsciously throughout some of his time as showrunner. Which really does color this story and the last in a slightly more vivid shade.
@@najawin8348 - was he really? That's so awful. You can't guess these things, but from how much it comes up in his era, I had wondered if he thought about it. I'm glad he seems to be on the other side of it all?
@@nightowl8477 Not on the level you're thinking of, probably. More on the "scratching so hard you bleed while thinking on a subconscious level" level. It's in some DWM interview about the stress from running both DW and Sherlock.
One thing I love about the 1st Doctor’s inclusion is how they resolve the debate on changing history. It was such a big point of contention and drama throughout his era (and frequently pops up in his EU stories), and 12 showing 1 that yes, he can find ways to cheat the system and make life a fairytale, was a perfect way of tying that whole thread up in a bow.
appreciate having a nice video earnestly talking about the positives of this episode given how the biggest videos on this i've seen were hbomberguy's takedown video and mrtardis' incredibly dismissive tack onto his weirdly bad faith read of into the dalek
So glad you made this! I love Hbomberguy’s video but I will defend this episode to death. I think you’re absolutely right, it’s almost like a thesis on why doctor who as a show deserves to go on.
If The Doctor Falls had been the proper regeneration story, it would have been the new series’ Caves of Androzani, which is equally cynical and depressing. But people still love that story despite its lack of typical Who optimism.
I would love if you were the show runner for doctor who because you would probably have varying good episode ideas as well that you would probably bring back Paul or Christfer to be a doctor and let the have their 10 year Thay deserve
Watched this in the leadup to the 60th and admittedly still not a fan, but I do definitely get why people like you appreciate it and I've certainly grown out of my Moffat hater phase. I'm still not a fan of a lot of his tropes but I mean, it is somewhat subjective I guess. Even if I personally don't think it comes together for me even as I can see how it would for someone like you, I'm able to at least approach things in good faith instead of just being completely cynical.
For real, I think a lot of Doctor Who fans have a lot of maturing left to do. Don't let a children's show stagnate you, guys, that's literally the opposite of what children's media exist for ahah.
@@SamyulDavis Have you been following Jamie's theories as to what Ruby's plot is? I think he's completely right. The snow following them everywhere and such.
I know the point of contention for 1st Doctor fans here was confusing William Hartnell's attitude with that of the 1st Doctor. More over where the character was in terms of development by The Tenth Planet. Moffat didn't get that distinction.
Eh. I like what its going for but the horrific characterisation of the first doctor damages it a fair bit for me personally. I do get why others like it though and the Christmas Armistace scene is well done
@@SamyulDavis - ahhh, yes. There's no technobabble, but it is in no way played for drama (greatly missed opportunity, yes!), and it's also sandwiched by _"Time's gone wrong!!!"_ which is just a super efficent version of what you're saying. I do think Steven's poking us to remember _"Oh, yeah, he can't retain his memories, etc."_ without wasting a line saying it. Still missing out tho.
"I was incredibly miserable from like 2014 to 2020"
dude same.
Doctor Falls is an argument that the show should end (a horror story about franchises resetting to the status quo). Twice Upon a Time is a case for it carrying on.
I believe Doctor Falls probably would not be as uncompromising as it was, if Twice Upon a Time wasn't about to happen. And even there, one of the final beats is; "where there's tears there's hope." If 12 had gotten to see that Bill was alright in the end, that probably would have been the thing to pull him back from the edge.
I can’t think of a more relatably, tragically human take on regeneration than running out, yearning for more life, getting your wish, then on the next one just wanting to be done.
I love that the Twelfth Doctor, who started this incarnation so vehemently against soldiers, ended this regeneration witnessing the Christmas armistice. Twice Upon a Time is a sweet coda focusing on the theme of memory and the nature of life. It’s probably the best way a Doctor has bowed out. Moffat was such a great writer and showrunner.
Bill Potts, as the most ‘classic who’ companions in nuwho, was the absolute perfect choice for this story. She’s the literal manifestation of the student/teacher archetype that the first decade of classic who was all about.
Pretty sure Gold said that Rose's Theme and The Doctor's Theme S1/2 both play because they were the first tracks he composed and he thought it fitting to include them in his final episode (and Doomsday for some reason)
The Peter Capaldi era was the best era of doctor who and I kept feeling like something was missing with the RTD2 specials. I finally realise that that's subtext.
Tbf there was subtext, the subtext in the second episode was A.i
@@robbiemartin9312 See, I've seen this take a few times. But it doesn't make any sense. The pitch seems to be that the not-things are approximations that are ever so slightly not right, but as they get more and more data they can approximate you better and better - and how them being attracted to chaos is a commentary on online divisiveness. There's something to that, but the more you analyze this, once again, the quicker it breaks apart. I've seen someone say "the way they have become malevolent despite being initially lacking in any qualities ties in with the business of algorithms and LLMs and so on not being neutral, because they’re shaped by social structures through their input, e.g. being racist because of the racism in the dataset they’ve been trained on" - but this only makes sense if we read that the whole of reality that they're training on, the "noisy, boiling universe" is biased in this way. But the episode rejects this reading, this isn't why they're tilted towards nastiness. It's because "love letters don't travel very far". Which just sorta undermines the entire metaphor, if this is what Davies is going for. And this flaw in the reading just renders it completely untenable - it doesn't have an explanation for their malevolence, AIs aren't inherently malevolent, they're just piles of linear algebra.
The more obvious reading is that it's about insecurity, anxiety, depression, loneliness. I mean, they come from nothing, nowhere, they are Not-Things, they drifted in from the blackness, no shape no form no purpose, etc etc. But this has its own flaws as well. It's just a very muddled episode.
God, thanks for this one. Seeing popular opinion about this particular episode online dominated by the sheer weight of the touch of one popular youtuber who happened to not like it for years has been heartbreaking. There's such a general tendency to refuse to engage with the emotional core of Moffat's writing (which is wild because the guy is constantly aspiring for poetic and romantic language) in favor of some of his more out of touch jokes and "attempts to be clever" (the latter of which can be fun, it's a matter of taste, it's like appreciating puns, idk what to tell you.) If you go into twice upon a time looking for moffatisms you'll find them, but if you go in willing to engage emotionally I really don't see how you'd leave empty-handed.
Oh that "did it suck" picture while saying "only seeing the negatives" very nicely done
For real, I’m so sick of Harry’s Moving Castle
@@A7CHITECT he says he's too old to do this... despite still doing it.
What a hate about his videos is that he suggestion to make the story better are kinda unreasonable. Like, he hated the clara scene because the doctor only saw clara, he would only be happy if All the the companions ever appeared. And im sure he would complain about the special effects if they did that. I remember so vivid about that point that I stopped then and there to watch his stuff
@@neto135791 slight correction - he would be happy if all the RTD companions appeared. Moffat onwards, ehhhhh
He's seemingly anti-vax too lmao. Not too surpirsing, he is very obviously conservative.
Best Christmas special easily imo, also the novelisation is a banger, I love the Daleks Master Plan VHS reference that Peter Capaldi just has in his TARDIS
I love Husbands of River song too much personally, this is great though
Definitely an emotional experience revisiting this episode.
thank you so, so much for this. this is my favourite doctor who story and just one of my favourite episodes of anything. I've never really been able to put why into words because it's so personal to me. it's a suicide story with a happy ending. reaching your lowest, after losing all your friends and you are so desperate to leave. but it's not over, you have so much left. new friends, new feelings, new realisations. I'm still here, I'm still living. I'm reinventing myself. im so young and i have a lot of life left to run. I'm not ready yet.
thank you so much for this video.
What better way is there to spend Christmas Eve than watching this 🥰😆
I enjoyed the specials (well, two and a half of them ig), and I'm exited for Gutwa, but I agree with you about having to change how we see the show. 12's era felt like a step forward, for the first time since 2005 the show really evolved into something new, before going right back to the same old with 13. I really hope 15s run will pick up where 12 left off and the Chibnall era will be a weird footnote in retrospect, but I'm not holding my breath.
Beautiful video, this episode is such a bittersweet treasure, especially with the element of how it's the most mature point the show has ever let the character reach and since then it's just been trying to ape Tenne
Exactly. Let's hope things will have improved in Series 14 when that's properlyish starting.
That is my very favourite video of yours ❤️
I mean it's lovely just to hear gushing about a beautiful story from two intelligent compassionate people who see It like Clara sees Twelve...but the connections made to _my_ favourite Christmas film, which I hadn't noticed before, implied in images and cutting instead of words, really touched me. That's art! This isn't a commentary, you've made art that reflects a love for another, as all art does. Had me tearing up in that last minute.
Everybody is important to someone, somewhere.
I got into Doctor Who a few years ago during a time that was very very hard for me and binged the whole of NuWho in a couple days. Capaldi was my favorite right away because he had a weariness, righteousness, and exhaustion with people that I related to heavily. It's a good thing I hadn't really gotten good at picking apart media yet when I got into it as I probably would've hated his Character Arc at the time as a major cynic, because the arc 12 went on struck a very deep chord with me in a way that I didn't understand at the time.
Turns out, I was a very hurt and damaged individual who masked my inability to stop the deep pit that was in my heart trying to escape out my mouth as "realistic" pessimism, and brutal honesty, when really, I was hurting and didn't know how to stop it from leaking out. I can say now that I've grown a lot as a person and strive to be kind whenever I am able. I'm still not always nice though no one ever is, but I work to always be kind if I'm able. And I learned that from Capaldi's Doctor, even if I didn't realize it for a long time.
My fav episodes of Classic and New Who both featuring Ben and Polly must simply conclude they are the best companions. 🤷♂️🤷♂️ facts are facts ig
I did find it funy how one of the last things 12 said to the audience was "be kind" and a percentage of said audience took one look at Jodie and said "he wants us to be kind, break her legs!".
fuckin hell, that wonderful life comparison at the end broke me. merry christmas; i suppose one more lifetime wouldnt hurt anyone!
It feels like this video was made just for me. Glad to know that somebody else "gets" it in the same way I do
This is the most heartfelt and insightful one of these yet, you both made such good points that I instantly went and rewatched the episode after this
Finally, one of these for grown ups. Excellent!
And a very merry therapy session to you!
Did you know that every time a cloister bell rings, a weeping angel gets its wings?
This is an episode I will never consider one of the best - it's not even really got a plot, just a string of interlinking events and settings - but its one I find really endearing. To me it doesn't work on its own, but it is a sterling epilogue to the two episodes that preceded it.
tuat is one of my favourite stories, it's just amazing,. How dare you upload your commentary to my... 3rd?? favourite episode of the new series whilst im drunk
Plot twist: The First Doctor saw Star Wars at one point and mistook Tuskin Raiders for Arabs, hence the accidental racism.
Weirdly, 12 going out on a depressing note might have been a more fitting setup for 13’s characterization as an emotionally closed off and self righteous incarnation (even if said characterization seemed to be largely unintentional). I’m glad we got Twice Upon a Time since Capaldi deserved to go out on a bright note, but it would be super interesting to know the original plan for the 12 to 13 handoff.
Also man it’s such a bummer that the Series 10 soundtrack was never officially released, the track that plays when Bill is revived/when the Doctor asks if they can ever have peace is so gorgeous. I hope we get that track in good quality someday.
Also, lmao, turns out I didn’t have to wait long to hear Davis’ thoughts on the 60th anniversary specials 😂
Neither of you mentioned Peter Capaldi's beautiful mad scientist hair, what the hell is wrong with you
this was a total delight. thank you for all you do!
I can absolutely relate to you both and the struggles the previous decade brought. I love the twelfth doctor. It was watching this ep again in 2022 that my ego gave in and let me rebuild anew. I lost a lot of people this year, but I found myself.
Merry Christmas Davis.
This was such a brilliant video! Felt so inspired lol
Wow. This was just so great. Thank you for this. Forgot how much I loved this story, too. Merry Christmas Guys!
I just finished my rewatch of the Capaldi era and man… this episode nearly had me in tears. I get where you were coming from now Sam haha. Such a gorgeous send off and declaration of big Moff’s guiding principals for Who. I have some big reservations about the news of him coming back for S14, but this episode really reminded me of why I love Moffat’s writing and what I dearly hope he brings to the new series.
Man, I miss Capaldi, Mackie, and Lucas 😢
Merry Christmas, Sam! That was absolutely lovely! Thank you!
What a beautiful commentary track - almost as comforting as watching the episode itself.
thanks for bringing some joy to what has been an otherwise miserable christmas for me :)
So Sam, when are the 12claras gonna have their representation with a Last Christmas whotrack? ;)
I just finished the video and wow... I wasn't expecting that. Regardless of what I personally think of the story, this video was damn powerful and something I needed to hear. Thanks guys.
I was in the same boat as Ian when this aired. I binged all of classic who in between S9 and S10 and was starting to think about doctor who critically around the time this aired, very much doing the whole hipster thing. As a result, I was too harsh on S10 and perhaps this story most of all. I haven't watched it in a while so I might give it another go around and see if I can pick up on some of the stuff you're both on about here. Then again as much as I love DAVIS's videos (and I really do) I scarcely agree with them haha.
Just wanted to say, I now understand why Rusty the Dalek is in this episode, and with that my biggest remaining problem is gone.
But even with the issues I do have this is without question the best multi Doctor special, just for being the one with a reason to be here. Twelve is so thoroughly an end to the Doctor in a meta sense, and seeing where he started, what’s changed and what hasn’t, if you’re making a possible ending (or new beginning as it were), you couldn’t do better.
My favourite episode of Moffats
Just found out you are an Isac Leon fan. Very good.
I'd argue this story is about whether or not Doctor Who should take their own life (negative), and - adjacent to that - whether or not the Twelfth Doctor, after a long long good life, should be allowed to sleep (positive) Realising the Twelfth Doctor _is_ definitively his own person, means he gets to sleep AND Doctor Who can live. I think Twice Upon a Time is sorta the most tender and careful portrayal of every kind of death? 😅
It's this script that made me see beyond technical or tonal niches of Steven's stories, and step back to see the wider truth: what a beautiful, lovely man Steven Moffat is. Look at how much heart and patience and compassion he has to tell this story so right. We are very lucky to have you ❤️
_"Well, I suppose...one more lifetime...couldn't kill anyone. Well, except me!"_
I recently learned that there's public confirmation that he was s*lf h*rming at least subconsciously throughout some of his time as showrunner. Which really does color this story and the last in a slightly more vivid shade.
@@najawin8348 - was he really? That's so awful. You can't guess these things, but from how much it comes up in his era, I had wondered if he thought about it. I'm glad he seems to be on the other side of it all?
@@nightowl8477 Not on the level you're thinking of, probably. More on the "scratching so hard you bleed while thinking on a subconscious level" level. It's in some DWM interview about the stress from running both DW and Sherlock.
@@najawin8348 - I hadn't heard of this
One thing I love about the 1st Doctor’s inclusion is how they resolve the debate on changing history. It was such a big point of contention and drama throughout his era (and frequently pops up in his EU stories), and 12 showing 1 that yes, he can find ways to cheat the system and make life a fairytale, was a perfect way of tying that whole thread up in a bow.
appreciate having a nice video earnestly talking about the positives of this episode given how the biggest videos on this i've seen were hbomberguy's takedown video and mrtardis' incredibly dismissive tack onto his weirdly bad faith read of into the dalek
So glad you made this! I love Hbomberguy’s video but I will defend this episode to death. I think you’re absolutely right, it’s almost like a thesis on why doctor who as a show deserves to go on.
If The Doctor Falls had been the proper regeneration story, it would have been the new series’ Caves of Androzani, which is equally cynical and depressing. But people still love that story despite its lack of typical Who optimism.
I would love if you were the show runner for doctor who because you would probably have varying good episode ideas as well that you would probably bring back Paul or Christfer to be a doctor and let the have their 10 year Thay deserve
Merry Yule.
27:34 So the next Christmas special is gonna be about the Doctor trying to get a Red Ryder?
Watched this in the leadup to the 60th and admittedly still not a fan, but I do definitely get why people like you appreciate it and I've certainly grown out of my Moffat hater phase. I'm still not a fan of a lot of his tropes but I mean, it is somewhat subjective I guess. Even if I personally don't think it comes together for me even as I can see how it would for someone like you, I'm able to at least approach things in good faith instead of just being completely cynical.
5:44 LOL
For real, I think a lot of Doctor Who fans have a lot of maturing left to do. Don't let a children's show stagnate you, guys, that's literally the opposite of what children's media exist for ahah.
_"I like it cos it reminds me of simpler times!"_ You are not giving children's fiction due credit: Doctor Who especially!
Sam, are you getting Faction Paradox vibes from the new trailer, or is it just me?
How so? I watched it just the once.
@@SamyulDavis Have you been following Jamie's theories as to what Ruby's plot is? I think he's completely right. The snow following them everywhere and such.
I know the point of contention for 1st Doctor fans here was confusing William Hartnell's attitude with that of the 1st Doctor. More over where the character was in terms of development by The Tenth Planet. Moffat didn't get that distinction.
What are your thoughts about Moffat being back
bummer
11:48
Eh. I like what its going for but the horrific characterisation of the first doctor damages it a fair bit for me personally. I do get why others like it though and the Christmas Armistace scene is well done
True they should of made him racist not sexist 😂
1:05 thinking you've misread this? There's no such line.
12 forgot about 1's regeneration rejection, no? I might've misspoke.
@@SamyulDavis - ahhh, yes. There's no technobabble, but it is in no way played for drama (greatly missed opportunity, yes!), and it's also sandwiched by _"Time's gone wrong!!!"_ which is just a super efficent version of what you're saying. I do think Steven's poking us to remember _"Oh, yeah, he can't retain his memories, etc."_ without wasting a line saying it. Still missing out tho.
Ah the last good episode. Before the show became entirely propaganda