I’m a 53 year old New Englander. My favorite baseball player was on my beloved Boston Redsox. Carlton Fisk. Fisk, Bench and Munson played in the day of real Baseball. I admit hating Thurman back in the day. I would not be caught dead praising a New York Yankee. But, In my opinion Thurman Munson’s career being cut short should not disqualify him from the Hall. That man deserves to be inducted yesterday. RIP.
I always said Munson was a great catcher a great game caller, great handler of pitchers that doesnt show up in a box score, but! he was a great, player a winner, I miss him!!! to the person who did the research on this thumbnail, thank you! thank you! thank you! TM belongs in the HOF
I grew up & still to this at day 67, I loved the captain. Part of my man cave is a tribute to him. If the HOF committee has any type of decency they need to put him in. Modern day players should watch his Yankeeography as a requirement. God bless Diana & family.
I do not think he will make it (too much politics to overcome), but he will always be my favorite Yankee and player. Thank you for speaking on his behalf.
Yep, he was also my favorite player. He played hard and he was a family man, but he didn't care for the media, and the sports writers are the ones that vote people into the Hall. Managers and players should decide who gets in.
Here here and Bravo! I got here because I was looking for video to send to friends to make the case for what the 2022 Yankees need RIGHT NOW down 0-2 to the Astros in the ALCS. What a pleasant surprise! Well done and I can’t wait to sign the petition. The Yankees are the true “America’s Team” and Thurman represented everything great about them and baseball played, “the right way!” God bless you and god bless, Thurm. Just like The Iron Horse he’s our captain forever!
i grew up an hour away from the reds home park and hadn't experienced puberty yet when sparky anderson said "don't compare another catcher to johnny bench!" i knew then as well as now that thurman could stand aside bench with no problem. you have proven your case.
if you use Roy Campanella as a example he should be in...Roy Campanella played 10 years before he was paralyzed from a car crash...Munson played ten years and was killed in a plane accident...Campy had more home runs and rbi's but Munson had a better batting average and better post seasons...Campy batted .237 in 32 world series games...Munson batted 357 in 32 post season games...373 in 16 world series games...Roy Campanella had more power but he played in Ebbits field...A short left field porch...Munson played in Yankee Stadium which was 457ft to left center and 437 after the renovations...He did hit 20 homers in the old stadium...Campy had 42 one year and was the MVP three times...Munson once...Both players careers ended tragically...If Munson played in a band box like Campanella he would have more home runs... their stats................................................................................................................ Roy Campanella....games at bats runs hits.. BB..HR.. RBI.. BA..OBP..Slug.. ................................1215...4205..627 1161 533 242 856..276..360..500 162 game ave...........162.....561....84...155...71...32..114..276..360..500 post season................32.....114....14.....27...12.....4....12..237..310..386
Thurman Munson....1423...5344..696 1558 438 113 701..292..346..410 162 game ave...........162.....608....79...177...50...13...80..292..346..410 post season................30.....129....19.....46.....5.....3...22..357..378..491
I did some more research on both men...Campy played in 15 world series games in Yankee Stadium...he was 8 for 51...a .157 average...no home runs and three runs batted in...he was 4 for his first 40 in the Stadium...Munson played in 15 post season games in a modified Yankee Stadium...instead of 457 in left Center it was 437...he was a whopping 32 for 62...a .516 batting average...two homers and 15 runs batted in...he hit safely in all 15 games...
@@joedebarbieri I don't agree that Elston was better but every bit as good as Thurman. Both of them deserve to be in the HOF and the fact that they aren't is just an example of the ignorance of those who are in charge of selecting the candidates for enshrinement. The criteria for election should not only be based on a players stats but mostly for what they meant to the game and to the fans who loved them.
It was said that Thurman didn't finish his career and that is why he has not been elected to the hall. Well, Roy didn't finish his career either and he was put in almost immediately, and rightly so. I think that not putting Thurman in the HOF where he truly deserves to be is nothing more than a slap in that mans face as well as the faces of his family. He deserves this one last honor for not only a great playing career but also because he was just one hell of a good man.
I heard it's mainly because his playing years were too short and also because his peak years were not long enough. By '79 he was on the downward slide as catcher and his stats had really tailed off. Would I personally vote him in?? I'm on the fence about it. 50/50. It's not a slam dunk which IMO is an absolute prerequisite for any player. Realistically however Munson is not quite in that category and falls a bit short. But as a kid growing up he was certainly one of my favorite players.
Despite all that, of the 17 catchers in the Hall, Munson has a better JAWS than over a third of them. And him having a down year in 79 is only thought to be him declining, because he died and never got a chance to show otherwise. Many, if not all hall of fame players, had a bad year. Often, as is the case here, a result of injury. What if Ruth died after the 1925 season? What if Boggs died after he hit .259 in his last year as a Red Sox? They didn't. And as a result got to prove that those down years were a fluke. Maybe in the offseason, had he lived, Munson gets his knees taken care of. Maybe as his career goes on he is transformed into a first baseman or gets a lot of ABs as DH. But that should all be moot, because the HoF has set the standard at ten years service time. As such, if a player plays 11 seasons, judge those seasons and don't punish them for not reaching numbers it would take another near decade to attain. The only things that should be considered in cases of players with shorter careers, yet meeting the ten year minimum, are the 162 game averages, postseason play, accolades, defensive prowess and peak. And when they say peak, they are saying 7 years,so don't understand what yo mean when yo say his peak years weren't long enough. Especially given his 7 year peak WAR is 37, well above the average HOF catcher. Lets stop punishing Munson for dying. He met the standard for years played, and in that time he played, he was 1-B to Johnny Benches 1-A, as this video clearly showed. If Bench didn't hit all those homers, there wouldn't be a question about who the best catcher of the seventies was. And I don't mean that as a slight toward Bench, who obviously was phenomenal.
To be fair, some of us who didn't get to see him still understand that he obviously deserves to get in based on the standards for service time (10 years) set by the HoF itself. His career was just 11 years, but his average 162 games played produce 5.2 WAR, a .292 average, and around 170 to 180 hits. All while being the best defensive catcher of the decade and an unquestionably great leader... Oh yeah, he also has the highest post season average in history for players with his amount of games or more and batted a stupid good .373 in 16 WS games. Some of us value the history of the game and go beyond looking at career totals. Also doesn't hurt that I'm a huge Yankee homer who will find himself crying while watching the Munson Yankeeography
This guy belongs in the Hall of Fame and I'm not just saying it because I'm a Yankee fan this guy was one of the top players in the 1970'she belongs in the Hall of Fame his death ended his career at such a young age of 32. I don't buy that he did not have a longer career therefore he cannot go in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame committee needs to take this serious Thurman Munson belongs in the Hall of Fame Period
Based on his stats he deserves to be in HOF. I’m not sure why he wasn’t voted in during his eligibility time period. 7 time all star 2 world championships AL MVP .292 avg (top 13 in AL avg 7 years) 3-time AL Gold Glove (catcher) 46.1 war (13th best amongst catchers) But most importantly, Munson never had a Munson moment, either at-bat or behind home plate! (Let’s see how many of you even know what I’m talking about)
All above the average of the 17 catchers currently in the HOF: .292 batting average 5.2 WAR/162 37.0 seven year peak WAR He was spectacular in the postseason, with his lowest series average being .278 and his peak being .529. With a .373 average in 16 World Series games, he is, without exaggeration, one of the greatest World Series players in baseball history. 17 catchers are in the Hall, and he has a better JAWS than over a third of them, despite having his career, and life, so abruptly ended. Some committee or another needs to testify this and an apology should be extended to his wife for taking this long to do the obviously correct thing. If you polled his contemporaries, he might get 100% of the vote from players who played from 1969-1979. Ask Johnny Bench if he thinks Thurmon ought to be in.
And there's a case to be made that it is the other way around. Defensively, Munson was superior, he was more durable, was a better hitter by average. Bench was better in power numbers and that's really it. And I don't mean to downplay it, power is important, and that's why it is still even a debate for me. Because if homer numbers were equal, it is Munson by quite a bit for me. He was definitely no worse than a very close second.
I have to disagree. Munson was my favorite player growing up, but I think he falls short of the HOF. He is a .292 hitter, but has only a so-so lifetime OBP and was not a big power hitter. While he had a three year stretch in which he batted over .300 and drove in 100 or more runs each season, he never drove in more than 74 in any other season. In fact, the only season he had that was arguably comparable to his three year stretch of 1975-'77 was 1973, when he batted .301 with 20 HR, 74 RBI and 80 runs scored. He was a great defensive catcher and from what I have heard called a good game, but I don't think that is enough to get Munson over the top. The elites are Bench, Cochrane, Campanella, Berra and Carter. A player with an eleven-year career like Munson's is a terrific player, but I do not think he is a hall of famer.
Interestingly, had his team played better and beaten the Reds in1976, I believe Munson would have been the first, and only player to win league and WS MVP in the same season. Though I could be wrong on that. In the loss, he batted .529 with an OPS over 1.000
@@rewing84 you said it played longer and have terrible lifetime batting average, Catching is about defence and neither Bench or Fisk called a game or handled a staff like TM ( the video proves it)
Except the HOF has set the standard at ten years playing time. You can't keep players out because they didn't get the arbitrary numbers it takes 15+ years to get.
There's no benefit to pulling Munson. There wouldn't be anyone better to replace him defensively, and nobody would be available to hit who was more clutch with a bat than him. He was a very good hitter who was GREAT when it mattered most.
Wait a minute , wait a minute , wait a minute , what the hell is wrong with this picture . Wtf is he not in the hall of fame and how can Major League Baseball let this happen . Why aren’t the Yankees organization and the committee and the players pushing for this . It’s crazy I thought he was in the hall of fame already . I was in the bleachers as a child when he hit that massive 430 ft homer I the 1978 playoffs against the royals . Now this is truly a baseball disgrace and they need to fix this .
97 games played qualifies as playing a season. And the fact he only player that number because he died, makes it kind of gross to hold against him. He played ten qualified seasons according to the rules of the sport, and the standard set by the HoF is ten seasons or more played. Judge the seasons they played and don't have a number set in your mind that players need to reach. Of course a player isn't gonna have 3k hits in a ten year long career, but what if, as a catcher, you average like 170 hits per 162 games played due to your .292 batting average? That would be well above the numbers of the majority of HOF catchers, including Johnny Bench. What if they played just ten years, and still managed to have a better JAWS than over a third of the currently enshrined catchers? How about if they had a seven year peak of 37 WAR and averaged 5.2 WAR per 162? Would you think they were worthy? Because Munson has those accomplished. His numbers on average are better than a great deal of those catchers already in. Won an MVP, ROY, 7 time AS, 3 time GG, 2 time champ with the highest batting average in playoff history for players with 130+ ABs in the postseason. A ridiculous .373 average in 16 WS games. And lest you think he just had a few remarkable series but also some bad ones, his low point was batting .278 in one series.
I was the biggest Munson fan growing up, but I really don't think he belongs in the hall of fame. His career totals just don't add up compared to Bench or Fisk. At the same time I don't think Joe Mauer exactly belongs in the hall of fame either. Had several great years but the rest of his career wasn't hall of fame quality. I think the hall of fame should induct only the truly great players with lenghty careers not just those with only a few great years under their belts.
Sorry guys he’s not a Hall of Famer, cause his passing cut short years he had left. That being said several guys that are in there probably shouldn’t be. Baines, Lee Smith, Don Sutton to name a few. You can’t change the rules cause of the tragic event of Thurmans passing unfortunate yeah but it’s all about performance numbers Munson, Mattingley their careers were to short.
Disagree completely. He belongs. Tragically passing was beyond his control. Mattingly suffered a back injury and was never the same plus he had a full career. Extrapolate Thurman’s numbers and he would’ve had enough to get in
Then they need to remove the ten year service time standard. Because if that standard exists, how do you keep Munson out? He was literally just as good, if not better, than Johnny Bench over the course of the decade he played. His peak WAR and WAR/162 are both well above the average for HOF catchers are of the 17 catchers in, he has a better JAWS than over a third of them. Also perhaps the greatest post season catcher in history and the best defensive catcher of all the HOF catchers from his era. Unfair to punish him for dying and not playing 5-10 more years to compile stats to meet arbitrary numbers. Things like this are why the Hall voting and committees are a joke. Look at McGriff, if the strike never happens, he obviously hits at least 7 homeruns between when the strike began in 94 and ended in 95. And then he's in on the first ballot. Munson averaged .292 with around 170 hits per 162 games played. With 5.2 WAR... As a CATCHER, and was also a remarkably clutch hitter who was a phenomenal defender... Based on the fact the minimum time is ten years... Make a real argument against him being in. Giving counting stat numbers he didn't get, saying others just played longer, etc... None of that counts. Based solely on his average every 162 games and his peak, compared to other hal.of fame catchers and catchers of his era... Make a case that a guy who was neck and neck with Bench for a decade is NOT a hall of fame worthy player. He was as good as the best, at their best. They were contemporaries, and for a decade it realistically was 1-A and 1-B.
No need to extrapolate. There is a standard set at ten years played. He played ten qualified seasons and as such is eligible. It is beyond ridiculous that the hall sets a standard at ten years, and players are held to arbitrary statistical standards it takes almost 20 years to realistically get. The voters should look at 162 game averages, particularly for catchers who almost never will play 162 games in any one season particularly in his era during the early days of the DH. Other position players may have 150+ more plate appearances than catchers with which to add to their counting stats. A catcher like Munson who appeared to average maybe 140-150 hits a season, was actually averaging somewhere around 170 hits per 162 games played. Compared to the average HOF catcher he has a better batting average, WAR/162, peak WAR, JAWS, OBP, OPS, OPS+, dWAR. So based on the standard set, and a fair way to judge players with briefer careers, his numbers need no extrapolation. But if you did, he would have been first ballot. How close the Yankees came to fielding a team with Munson behind the plate and Mattingly at first, Winfield in right. Get a proper leadoff guy there and they've got some potential to contend for a year or two before natural decline happened with Munson sometime around 86-87... But if he just holds on for a little bit... Then we got Rickey. Bit of a tangent, don't mind me. I wasn't even alive when he was, but I can get passionate talking Munson and the Yankees.
One thing never seems to get mentioned and wasn't even mentioned here. He won. Teams won 3 pennants and 2 World Series, Fisk had 1 and none while Bench had 2 and 4.Ted Simmons had no business getting in ahead of Munson. A good hitting catcher playing on a 'rocket' astroturf infield, never won an MVP or came close. Munson always put down for HRs but Simmons hit 248 in 21 years while Munson hit 113 in less than 10 complete seasons.
It should be named the Hall of Shame.. he did not get accepted. They took the guy with 9 All Star games in 21 year career instead. If only Thurman had that same chance.
No matter what happens, he will always be in the hall of fame of our hearts.
I’m a 53 year old New Englander. My favorite baseball player was on my beloved Boston Redsox. Carlton Fisk. Fisk, Bench and Munson played in the day of real Baseball. I admit hating Thurman back in the day. I would not be caught dead praising a New York Yankee. But, In my opinion Thurman Munson’s career being cut short should not disqualify him from the Hall. That man deserves to be inducted yesterday. RIP.
Thank you. #MunsonHOF
I saw him play and he dominated in the 70’s. He belongs in the HOF.
I always said Munson was a great catcher a great game caller, great handler of pitchers that doesnt show up in a box score, but! he was a great, player a winner, I miss him!!! to the person who did the research on this thumbnail, thank you! thank you! thank you! TM belongs in the HOF
Thurman Munson has always been a hall of famer
Yes
Should have gone in the same way as Roberto Clemente did.
I grew up & still to this at day 67, I loved the captain. Part of my man cave is a tribute to him.
If the HOF committee has any type of decency they need to put him in. Modern day players should watch his Yankeeography as a requirement. God bless Diana & family.
Thurman was Mr. Clutch. He always came through when it mattered most.
Munson & Garvey are HOFs! I was a Reds...Big Red Machine fan as a kid...but these 2 dudes were Great!
I do not think he will make it (too much politics to overcome), but he will always be my favorite Yankee and player. Thank you for speaking on his behalf.
Yep, he was also my favorite player. He played hard and he was a family man, but he didn't care for the media, and the sports writers are the ones that vote people into the Hall. Managers and players should decide who gets in.
Still sport my number fifteen in the bronx to this day. Growing up watching the Yankees with my dad on WPIX-11 tugboat was our guy the captain
@@markmchenry4489 Amen, Brother!
Thurman was my idol and hero. He definitely is a Hall of Famer. He deserves to be inducted. RIP Thurman 🙏
#15 👍
Here here and Bravo! I got here because I was looking for video to send to friends to make the case for what the 2022 Yankees need RIGHT NOW down 0-2 to the Astros in the ALCS.
What a pleasant surprise!
Well done and I can’t wait to sign the petition.
The Yankees are the true “America’s Team” and Thurman represented everything great about them and baseball played, “the right way!”
God bless you and god bless, Thurm. Just like The Iron Horse he’s our captain forever!
After watching this, I believe that Thurman Munson belongs in the hall of fame, and playing the Last 3 years with knee problems
Steve Garvey & Thurman Munson are 2 guys who had HOF careers....1970's baseball.
i grew up an hour away from the reds home park and hadn't experienced puberty yet when sparky anderson said "don't compare another catcher to johnny bench!" i knew then as well as now that thurman could stand aside bench with no problem. you have proven your case.
The kid from Kent State was special. Still wear my number 15 in the bronx
@@patrickoconnor1077cool
Our captain, will get in, it took Rizzuto a long time, too
It's way past time 15 belongs in the HOF, Thurman Munson was just as good as Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk. He belongs in the HOF!!!
Is there a petition to sign to get Thurman in the Hall of Fame???
Yes
if you use Roy Campanella as a example he should be in...Roy Campanella played 10 years before he was paralyzed from a car crash...Munson played ten years and was killed in a plane accident...Campy had more home runs and rbi's but Munson had a better batting average and better post seasons...Campy batted .237 in 32 world series games...Munson batted 357 in 32 post season games...373 in 16 world series games...Roy Campanella had more power but he played in Ebbits field...A short left field porch...Munson played in Yankee Stadium which was 457ft to left center and 437 after the renovations...He did hit 20 homers in the old stadium...Campy had 42 one year and was the MVP three times...Munson once...Both players careers ended tragically...If Munson played in a band box like Campanella he would have more home runs...
their stats................................................................................................................
Roy Campanella....games at bats runs hits.. BB..HR.. RBI.. BA..OBP..Slug..
................................1215...4205..627 1161 533 242 856..276..360..500
162 game ave...........162.....561....84...155...71...32..114..276..360..500
post season................32.....114....14.....27...12.....4....12..237..310..386
Thurman Munson....1423...5344..696 1558 438 113 701..292..346..410
162 game ave...........162.....608....79...177...50...13...80..292..346..410
post season................30.....129....19.....46.....5.....3...22..357..378..491
I did some more research on both men...Campy played in 15 world series games in Yankee Stadium...he was 8 for 51...a .157 average...no home runs and three runs batted in...he was 4 for his first 40 in the Stadium...Munson played in 15 post season games in a modified Yankee Stadium...instead of 457 in left Center it was 437...he was a whopping 32 for 62...a .516 batting average...two homers and 15 runs batted in...he hit safely in all 15 games...
good point
as much as I liked Munson I think Elston Howard was just as good if not better than Munson...
@@joedebarbieri I don't agree that Elston was better but every bit as good as Thurman. Both of them deserve to be in the HOF and the fact that they aren't is just an example of the ignorance of those who are in charge of selecting the candidates for enshrinement. The criteria for election should not only be based on a players stats but mostly for what they meant to the game and to the fans who loved them.
It was said that Thurman didn't finish his career and that is why he has not been elected to the hall. Well, Roy didn't finish his career either and he was put in almost immediately, and rightly so. I think that not putting Thurman in the HOF where he truly deserves to be is nothing more than a slap in that mans face as well as the faces of his family. He deserves this one last honor for not only a great playing career but also because he was just one hell of a good man.
How he isn’t in the HOF I still don’t know
good point i wonder too
Politics. Always politics.
I heard it's mainly because his playing years were too short and also because his peak years were not long enough. By '79 he was on the downward slide as catcher and his stats had really tailed off. Would I personally vote him in?? I'm on the fence about it. 50/50. It's not a slam dunk which IMO is an absolute prerequisite for any player. Realistically however Munson is not quite in that category and falls a bit short. But as a kid growing up he was certainly one of my favorite players.
@@robertwheatley4907 agreed
Despite all that, of the 17 catchers in the Hall, Munson has a better JAWS than over a third of them.
And him having a down year in 79 is only thought to be him declining, because he died and never got a chance to show otherwise. Many, if not all hall of fame players, had a bad year. Often, as is the case here, a result of injury. What if Ruth died after the 1925 season? What if Boggs died after he hit .259 in his last year as a Red Sox? They didn't. And as a result got to prove that those down years were a fluke. Maybe in the offseason, had he lived, Munson gets his knees taken care of. Maybe as his career goes on he is transformed into a first baseman or gets a lot of ABs as DH.
But that should all be moot, because the HoF has set the standard at ten years service time. As such, if a player plays 11 seasons, judge those seasons and don't punish them for not reaching numbers it would take another near decade to attain.
The only things that should be considered in cases of players with shorter careers, yet meeting the ten year minimum, are the 162 game averages, postseason play, accolades, defensive prowess and peak. And when they say peak, they are saying 7 years,so don't understand what yo mean when yo say his peak years weren't long enough. Especially given his 7 year peak WAR is 37, well above the average HOF catcher.
Lets stop punishing Munson for dying. He met the standard for years played, and in that time he played, he was 1-B to Johnny Benches 1-A, as this video clearly showed.
If Bench didn't hit all those homers, there wouldn't be a question about who the best catcher of the seventies was. And I don't mean that as a slight toward Bench, who obviously was phenomenal.
He belongs in the Hall of Fame
Those who say he should not did not see him play
To be fair, some of us who didn't get to see him still understand that he obviously deserves to get in based on the standards for service time (10 years) set by the HoF itself. His career was just 11 years, but his average 162 games played produce 5.2 WAR, a .292 average, and around 170 to 180 hits. All while being the best defensive catcher of the decade and an unquestionably great leader... Oh yeah, he also has the highest post season average in history for players with his amount of games or more and batted a stupid good .373 in 16 WS games.
Some of us value the history of the game and go beyond looking at career totals.
Also doesn't hurt that I'm a huge Yankee homer who will find himself crying while watching the Munson Yankeeography
This guy belongs in the Hall of Fame and I'm not just saying it because I'm a Yankee fan this guy was one of the top players in the 1970'she belongs in the Hall of Fame his death ended his career at such a young age of 32. I don't buy that he did not have a longer career therefore he cannot go in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame committee needs to take this serious Thurman Munson belongs in the Hall of Fame Period
Based on his stats he deserves to be in HOF. I’m not sure why he wasn’t voted in during his eligibility time period.
7 time all star
2 world championships
AL MVP
.292 avg (top 13 in AL avg 7 years)
3-time AL Gold Glove (catcher)
46.1 war (13th best amongst catchers)
But most importantly, Munson never had a Munson moment, either at-bat or behind home plate! (Let’s see how many of you even know what I’m talking about)
All above the average of the 17 catchers currently in the HOF:
.292 batting average
5.2 WAR/162
37.0 seven year peak WAR
He was spectacular in the postseason, with his lowest series average being .278 and his peak being .529. With a .373 average in 16 World Series games, he is, without exaggeration, one of the greatest World Series players in baseball history.
17 catchers are in the Hall, and he has a better JAWS than over a third of them, despite having his career, and life, so abruptly ended.
Some committee or another needs to testify this and an apology should be extended to his wife for taking this long to do the obviously correct thing. If you polled his contemporaries, he might get 100% of the vote from players who played from 1969-1979. Ask Johnny Bench if he thinks Thurmon ought to be in.
I can't understand why Baseball Hall Of Fame has neglected Munson all the years ,that's crap ,look at the numbers .
Besides Johnny Bench.....Munson was the 2nd best all around catcher in baseball 1970's decade.
And there's a case to be made that it is the other way around. Defensively, Munson was superior, he was more durable, was a better hitter by average. Bench was better in power numbers and that's really it. And I don't mean to downplay it, power is important, and that's why it is still even a debate for me. Because if homer numbers were equal, it is Munson by quite a bit for me. He was definitely no worse than a very close second.
I have to disagree. Munson was my favorite player growing up, but I think he falls short of the HOF. He is a .292 hitter, but has only a so-so lifetime OBP and was not a big power hitter. While he had a three year stretch in which he batted over .300 and drove in 100 or more runs each season, he never drove in more than 74 in any other season. In fact, the only season he had that was arguably comparable to his three year stretch of 1975-'77 was 1973, when he batted .301 with 20 HR, 74 RBI and 80 runs scored. He was a great defensive catcher and from what I have heard called a good game, but I don't think that is enough to get Munson over the top. The elites are Bench, Cochrane, Campanella, Berra and Carter. A player with an eleven-year career like Munson's is a terrific player, but I do not think he is a hall of famer.
Interestingly, had his team played better and beaten the Reds in1976, I believe Munson would have been the first, and only player to win league and WS MVP in the same season. Though I could be wrong on that. In the loss, he batted .529 with an OPS over 1.000
Biggest HOF snub in all of sports
I’ve always wondered why he was not being exalted. They should use same approach as done with Clemente IMO.
HES NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME YET? WTF...YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN ME....
Munson 11 seasons, Bench 17 season's Fisk 24 seasons, those statistics show he belongs in the HOF and he was above those guys, (Loved him our captain)
except bench and fisk played longer and have better stats
@@rewing84 you said it played longer and have terrible lifetime batting average, Catching is about defence and neither Bench or Fisk called a game or handled a staff like TM ( the video proves it)
Except the HOF has set the standard at ten years playing time. You can't keep players out because they didn't get the arbitrary numbers it takes 15+ years to get.
Most importantly, Munson never had a Munson moment, either at-bat or behind home plate! (Let’s see how many of you even know what I’m talking about)
If you were his coach would you take him out of a game or keep him in to hold a lead?
There's no benefit to pulling Munson. There wouldn't be anyone better to replace him defensively, and nobody would be available to hit who was more clutch with a bat than him. He was a very good hitter who was GREAT when it mattered most.
Thurman Munson was a great catcher and hitter. But for the HOF? Nay , but with what's going on with the HOF committee now, why not.
Wait a minute , wait a minute , wait a minute , what the hell is wrong with this picture . Wtf is he not in the hall of fame and how can Major League Baseball let this happen . Why aren’t the Yankees organization and the committee and the players pushing for this . It’s crazy I thought he was in the hall of fame already . I was in the bleachers as a child when he hit that massive 430 ft homer I the 1978 playoffs against the royals . Now this is truly a baseball disgrace and they need to fix this .
He only played in reality 9 full seasons
Amen!
97 games played qualifies as playing a season. And the fact he only player that number because he died, makes it kind of gross to hold against him.
He played ten qualified seasons according to the rules of the sport, and the standard set by the HoF is ten seasons or more played.
Judge the seasons they played and don't have a number set in your mind that players need to reach. Of course a player isn't gonna have 3k hits in a ten year long career, but what if, as a catcher, you average like 170 hits per 162 games played due to your .292 batting average? That would be well above the numbers of the majority of HOF catchers, including Johnny Bench. What if they played just ten years, and still managed to have a better JAWS than over a third of the currently enshrined catchers? How about if they had a seven year peak of 37 WAR and averaged 5.2 WAR per 162? Would you think they were worthy? Because Munson has those accomplished. His numbers on average are better than a great deal of those catchers already in. Won an MVP, ROY, 7 time AS, 3 time GG, 2 time champ with the highest batting average in playoff history for players with 130+ ABs in the postseason. A ridiculous .373 average in 16 WS games. And lest you think he just had a few remarkable series but also some bad ones, his low point was batting .278 in one series.
I was the biggest Munson fan growing up, but I really don't think he belongs in the hall of fame. His career totals just don't add up compared to Bench or Fisk. At the same time I don't think Joe Mauer exactly belongs in the hall of fame either. Had several great years but the rest of his career wasn't hall of fame quality. I think the hall of fame should induct only the truly great players with lenghty careers not just those with only a few great years under their belts.
Fisk eat your heart out!!! TM next stop the HOF it's about time!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like Joe kleco of the jets same bs
except klecko will be alive if he gets an induction
Sorry guys he’s not a Hall of Famer, cause his passing cut short years he had left. That being said several guys that are in there probably shouldn’t be. Baines, Lee Smith, Don Sutton to name a few. You can’t change the rules cause of the tragic event of Thurmans passing unfortunate yeah but it’s all about performance numbers Munson, Mattingley their careers were to short.
Disagree on smith baines sutton
Disagree completely. He belongs. Tragically passing was beyond his control. Mattingly suffered a back injury and was never the same plus he had a full career. Extrapolate Thurman’s numbers and he would’ve had enough to get in
Then they need to remove the ten year service time standard. Because if that standard exists, how do you keep Munson out? He was literally just as good, if not better, than Johnny Bench over the course of the decade he played. His peak WAR and WAR/162 are both well above the average for HOF catchers are of the 17 catchers in, he has a better JAWS than over a third of them. Also perhaps the greatest post season catcher in history and the best defensive catcher of all the HOF catchers from his era.
Unfair to punish him for dying and not playing 5-10 more years to compile stats to meet arbitrary numbers. Things like this are why the Hall voting and committees are a joke. Look at McGriff, if the strike never happens, he obviously hits at least 7 homeruns between when the strike began in 94 and ended in 95. And then he's in on the first ballot.
Munson averaged .292 with around 170 hits per 162 games played. With 5.2 WAR... As a CATCHER, and was also a remarkably clutch hitter who was a phenomenal defender... Based on the fact the minimum time is ten years... Make a real argument against him being in.
Giving counting stat numbers he didn't get, saying others just played longer, etc... None of that counts. Based solely on his average every 162 games and his peak, compared to other hal.of fame catchers and catchers of his era... Make a case that a guy who was neck and neck with Bench for a decade is NOT a hall of fame worthy player. He was as good as the best, at their best. They were contemporaries, and for a decade it realistically was 1-A and 1-B.
No need to extrapolate. There is a standard set at ten years played. He played ten qualified seasons and as such is eligible. It is beyond ridiculous that the hall sets a standard at ten years, and players are held to arbitrary statistical standards it takes almost 20 years to realistically get. The voters should look at 162 game averages, particularly for catchers who almost never will play 162 games in any one season particularly in his era during the early days of the DH. Other position players may have 150+ more plate appearances than catchers with which to add to their counting stats. A catcher like Munson who appeared to average maybe 140-150 hits a season, was actually averaging somewhere around 170 hits per 162 games played.
Compared to the average HOF catcher he has a better batting average, WAR/162, peak WAR, JAWS, OBP, OPS, OPS+, dWAR.
So based on the standard set, and a fair way to judge players with briefer careers, his numbers need no extrapolation. But if you did, he would have been first ballot. How close the Yankees came to fielding a team with Munson behind the plate and Mattingly at first, Winfield in right. Get a proper leadoff guy there and they've got some potential to contend for a year or two before natural decline happened with Munson sometime around 86-87... But if he just holds on for a little bit... Then we got Rickey.
Bit of a tangent, don't mind me. I wasn't even alive when he was, but I can get passionate talking Munson and the Yankees.
A catcher could play a decade today and not catch 20 complete games. I guess that is a microcosm of why baseball is no longer fun to watch.
He means that Munson caught the full game, not that the pitcher threw a complete game.
One thing never seems to get mentioned and wasn't even mentioned here. He won. Teams won 3 pennants and 2 World Series, Fisk had 1 and none while Bench had 2 and 4.Ted Simmons had no business getting in ahead of Munson. A good hitting catcher playing on a 'rocket' astroturf infield, never won an MVP or came close. Munson always put down for HRs but Simmons hit 248 in 21 years while Munson hit 113 in less than 10 complete seasons.
that is the dumbest take on simmons i have ever or will ever hear
It should be named the Hall of Shame.. he did not get accepted. They took the guy with 9 All Star games in 21 year career instead. If only Thurman had that same chance.
i disagree 100%
@@rewing84 I see guys going in for less. If Thurman had 10 more years, he was definitely going in.
@@MrBoljangles I agree
Munson was better all around player than Fisk period!!! Also Better than that 2 stretoid players Pizza and Rodriquez
i strongly strongly doubt that'