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‘Racially abused players should collectively refuse to play!’ - Gordon Strachan | The Debate
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2019
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Sam Allardyce, Gordon Strachan & Paul Elliott discuss the subject of racism in football, with the panel asked whether they would ever encourage their players to walk off the field of play if they witnessed abuse first hand from the dugout.
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Start banning and heavy fines for first offenders
Russell Morton nah that’s a soft punishment.
For freedom of expression
Talking about racism they barely let the black guy speak.
It's racism letting him speak, only because he's black or seing him more privileged. That's where racism starts.
@@Raheem_925 not really, the black guy probably has the most experience with this racism topic and he is one of the founders of Kick It Out so he is the most qualified person to speak on this topic
Wolfe rex That’s a terrible way to look at it, he is the only one on the panel who would’ve been affected by racism and specifically in football. It makes the most sense for someone directly affected to speak on the issue.
Was getting annoyed at Mr Elliot being constantly talked over. Thank you for stating that
@@Raheem_925 Wolfe is being sarcastic, I think
Bit frustrating how they kept cutting Paul off just as he was making his point
Matt C When someone knows the truth, speaks the truth ... they always shut them up.
It's not that easy, Gordon. The old men at the top need to do more to root out racism in football from the grassroots to the highest level but they are too busy taken bribes.
No Sam, we are NOT doing our best, far from it!
Doing something doesn't mean 'doing your best'.
When you hear stuff like this it just makes me respect players like Paul Elliott , John barnes, Ian wright so sooo much imagine the abuse they got and they were still performing so well.
@Anthony
Hard to feel sorry for IanWright in that regard considering he was a bully himself. He always abused opposition players, was a bit thuggish at times, even pushed his own players at times on camera so who knows what he may have done to some off camera.
And Gordon Strachan. He would have got all sorts of abuse for his religion in Scotland
Shocking
Paul Elliott was talked over time and time again without being allowed to finish his points in the first half of the video. That's something Sky should consider fixing for next time.
Glad that Sam, Gordon & Jeff calmed down later (as much as we like their points) to let Paul finish because it was getting cringey to watch.
It would have been nice to hear Paul finish a sentence before being interrupted or interjected.
It should never be the victim's responsibility to solve the problem.
to a certain extent, you can't control how others act but you can control how you act... however I don't think this is a solution if anything it will make the problem worse
“Never”? I’m not saying this should be solved by the players being abused, but there are plenty of examples of victims having the capability of finding solutions to problems.
What about people who self harm
Just the racially abused players? ALL players should refuse to play utill FIFA and UEFA grow some balls and do not let into the stadium, any fans of the team who abuse.
Wrong then you stop the good fans seeing there team how is that fair ? If anyone had any sense they'd simply monitor the stands and single out the racial abusers that's hard how do you think Russia stopped the them in the world cup ?
I agree with this. And Josh Cox, if the good fans will not be motivated to root out the bad fans because everyone is affected by the players choice to protest, then the issue is deeper in society that I thought.
I do agree with your second point, Josh Cox, but the problem is that the people in the same positions of power equivalent to the Russians that enacted and enforced those rules are NOT doing those things. At some point, the players have to do something because they are not being properly protected.
@The Big Bad White Man That is absurd. If a terrorist calls my job and threatens to blow the building up, they better be punished. Free speech is a means of protection from the federal government persecution, not from the state or personal level. Learn your history.
@The Big Bad White Man Wow. You are daft.
Free speech, which would then include threats (terrorist threats included) should be protected in your eyes, right? There is no speech that would not be protected, right? Who cares about mass panic or indoctrination of fear, right? Free speech!
Also, free speech is protected from FEDERAL INTERVENTION. It is not protected from state, personal, or business space. If you are in another person's business space (a stadium, or store for example) and they have RULES AGAINST HATE SPEECH, then you are legally obligated to abide by the rules they have presented, leave their establishment, or ignore the rules set and risk legal consequence.
That is the history you have missed. Free speech is not protected in those spaces. It is only protected in the form that the government (federal) may not persecute any group or person based on their speech. However, state, personal, and businesses are not a, "protected" free speech space. Sorry bud. You can go to jail for what you say. So please don't give me that, "buh my free speeches are invincible" rhetoric. Know your history and your legal rights.
@The Big Bad White Man Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!
That compilation is the best you could muster? How sad and pathetic. You even did your best to avoid the fact that when you are in another's place of business, your, "free speech" is not protected. Especially since this happened at an arena venue. You are absolutely an idiot and your replies prove just such. Gg
At least youtube comment section was good for providing me a great and hearty laugh. Thank you for that.
Gordon Strachan interrupting Paul Elliott constantly to comment on racism. Oh dear
Is he not allowed an opinion because of his skin colour?
How many black managers are there in English football. There was a documentary showing a former black footballer applied for 30 clubs and and not even called for 1 interview, I mean even Holland small country but they have produced black coaches and it's not that this country has good managers anyway
and their team mates. just having the abused players not play means the racists win
The non racially abuse team mates should all band together and refuses to play in solidarity. Plus any fan caught being racially abusive should be banned from attending football games at every stadium for at least 5 years.
@The Big Bad White Man Yea I've got nothing better to do. Nope, football is not for everyone. Severely mentally challenged people (unless properly supervised) , pregnant women, rapists, racists and murderers amongst other people cannot be allowed into stadiums to watch a football match.
You do realize you call all coloured people "not English" and then proceed to call people that you believe are English to be "white English"? You never learned about redundancy in your big bad white school, did you? What's next, round circles?
Let Paul speak ffs hahaha, the fella can't finish his point
😂😂😂
FFS Big Sam is so annoying lmaoo
@The Big Bad White Man hilarious whitty insight from the edgiest account out there
@The Big Bad White Man whatever you say 'big bad white man'
@The Big Bad White Man yes because your prehistoric views on racism are dead intelligent
I still can't believe Fury got up
he got dropped like a rag doll twice tho
Why are you talking about Fury you Prick ??
Dosser !
Pretty misleading title as they bring up the idea and shut it down and offer alternatives immediately. Refusing to play almost entices the racists to continue what they’re doing. That’s them winning. I like the idea of holding up the game until security addresses the issue. At the end of the day everyone there has come to watch a game. Holding up play would stop people from making these offenses and motivate people to point out the offender.
Never Bummer I agree, if any of the players see members of the crowd racially abusing other players it should be highlighted instantly and the security should deal with them, and the players shouldn’t get in trouble for stopping playing in order to point this out as this is an issue that we must tackle together
A couple of dinosaurs trying their best not to be dinosaurs lol
@Ted Bundy Gordon Strachan saying in relation to racism "we've cracked it "(racism) and countries like Montenegro are 30 years behind us says it all I'm afraid. Not so much a dinosaur as a fantasist.
@Ted Bundy Gordon Strachan saying we've cracked it, meaning racism is not a problem in the UK, is what invalidates his argument. Nothing to do with his age or anything else, but if anyone thinks there is no racism in football in England, it is very hard to take those people seriously.
@Ted Bundy what do you want me to address? The view that there is no racism in English football? There are numerous very recent incidents that provide all the evidence you need. He's simply wrong, whether he's 22 or 102. Not sure what else you need me to say, my original comment addressed the inaccurate "we've cracked it" statement, nothing to do with age.
@Ted Bundy a young Bournemouth fan was prosecuted today for raciially abusing Spurs players, a man in his 50s was prosecuted a few weeks ago for racially abusing Raheem Sterling, who plays for the team this man actually "supports". Are Home Office figures good enough evidence? They say incidents of racism last season were 50% higher than the previous one, and have been on the rise the last 3 seasons. There are many many examples.
@@BB-mm5gk he didnt say that he said its still in the terraces
Refusing to play is letting the haters win. Be defiant, stand up to racism and never back down or be silent
You see someone or some people abusing someone, if you look away you are just as bad as the person committing the horrible emotional and psychological harm.
Raheem did the right thing, let it motivate u to smash their team n shut them up with what u do best.
I don't know if Gordon Strachan is really the right person to be commenting on this. His heart is in the right place, but it doesn't seem right coming from a guy who wouldn't know what its like to tell racially abused players what they should do.
I know what you mean but , as a Scotsman who played and managed for years in England, I'm sure he received plenty of abuse about his nationality over the years
The whole team should refuse to play... they are a team.
I respect STERLING alot for reacting like he did.
what do you mean “we’ve cracked it here, it’s only in Montenegro”
For real. That was some next bullshit.
The funny thing is most of those England fans in the crowd were EDL enthusiasts.
cough cough "football lads' alliance" cough cough
@Amitabh Bachchan cough cough "football lads' alliance" cough cough ? (a reincarnation thereof)
English defence league are not against black people though?
Does anyone know the rules for what would happen if a team walked off the pitch? Would that count as forfeiting or would the game be replayed?
0-3 loss. U cant leave the pitch no matter what unless the ref calls the game to be cancelled
He's not saying black players should refuse to play...he's saying the entire team should not play. That's why he goes on to say "you'd have other top teams like spain backing us refusing to play in Montenegro".
I dont understand that because spain doesn't have many black players in their team
@@zingyguy6221 That's the point...if teams who don't even have black players refuse to play teams with abusive fans it shows solidarity and forces those nations to take action.
@@kofib.mayhew9417 oh alright get ya
Kofi B Mayhew when have blacks shown solidarity for white ? 🤔🤔
@@jurgenforster8314 Those 200 years of slavery was what then?
So rival fans will pose as opposition fans and racially abuse their players to get them away.
Shame them, put their faces on the front page of the newspapers. Enough is enough! We are just like you, we might sound different, look different but inside, you have the same organs like I do.
Something I don't understand is why they play seconds after getting stuff thrown at them. Piss off, I'm not doing anything until you throw that guy out. And if it leads to more people throwing stuff, then I'm not playing until you throw them out too. If you can't, then we'll all pissing wait.
The media have started a narrative where they won't be happy until a team leaves the pitch soon. Talksport the other day was ridiculous.
SkySports should have brought in black pundits for this topic as well
Ban the team from the tournaments at least 2-3years and a heavy fine
You should clean first your own yard before cleaning others.
They’re 20 - 30 years behind us 🤦🏿♂️
That doesn’t fit right in this conversation
Right?!?! Acting like the UK is racism free when it's just more covert
Id say 35 -40 years behind....the 3 degrees generation.....guys like ian wright from the crystal palace 1990 team onwards ...it was a new generation...where racism was far less and moreso only a minority.....guys like john fashanu,hughton,gullit were beloved by not only their clubs with whom theyre synonomous but respected by 90% supporters at the time regardless of race
Yeah, we just pretend we're civilised while bombing and invading almost exclusively brown countries.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 your obviously a true fairminded and free thinker not afraid of uncomfortable truths and realities. ...we exist under a fascist msm that plays the party line in this regard allowing such calamatious bombings and incursions under the guise of fake news and imaginary wmd"s. Yet the 1 time (isis-syria,) when incursion was welcome they did nothing....
Frustrating that they never let Paul Elliot talk when he clearly had the best opinions and knowledge on the area.
Strachan and Allardyce just raise their voice every time he was about to make a point
truth
10 point deduction and closed door matches are the only way to force clubs to get off their asses about racism! Stop this NOW!
Refusing to play would only help the abusers getting it their way. I'm not even sure most of them are racists, I think they just are willing to do, or in this case say, anything to help their team win and to get in the head of their opponents. So the best is probably to beat them and address it after the game just like they did.
If a guy who worked at a regular shop kept getting racially abused by customers would he be able to refuse to work? Not likely. That said I get where they're coming from but doesn't seem like the right response.
These player have been disrespect in their own country, how can we talk about what's going on outside the country?
Why should someone be abused anyway. If somebody has served their time for an offense why should they be abused it's been done !
Why is it ok to give footballers abuse in other forms but not racism? That’s not to say racism is ok, but footballers take some horrible abuse in many forms, about their family, height, weight etc skin colour is another thing to add to that list. I think it’s wrong to solely focus on racism in football, instead abuse as a whole
kenwardens9 I’m a white guy so can’t really be certain in saying this but I think racism affects the players and is discussed more because it’s a more deep rooted hatred than simply saying someone’s a bit fat or a bit small or whatever
James W yeah that’s a fair point, the history behind it makes it more relevant. But at the same time I think there’s stuff said and shouted at footy games which is arguably worse than racism, which just gets overlooked and dubbed as “its part of the game”
@@kenwardens9 It has structural implications. Think about it; they're all rich yet racism affects them, even in their bubble cos its all around them.
Gordon Strachan is now banned from the show apparently
And if he tries to get back in to the sky studios they've got facial recognition software that goes BANG- GET OUT 👉
Everyone should refuse to play
Imagine having a discussion on racism and barely letting the person of colour speak smh
As a neutral I have seen more reaction against such hate crimes for a player in a England shirt than the same player being in a Man City shirt, are there any reasons for such a discrepancy ?
Those clubs whose fans dissout the abuse should have to play in an empty stadium for atleast two games. Fining clubs will not deter those fans from such behavior.
Imagine the France squad 😂😂
Yeah that's right Gordon great idea to get the blacks to stop playing completely 😂
In my opinion players should just continue playing, players are taught to ignore all kinds of insults from fans, grow a backbone and have a thick skin, these people will get due punishment once the match is over, by walking off the pitch it just gives power to those causing trouble, why let it get under your skin or protest?
The only thing that change is the Football Authorities FIFA, UEFA, FA and Premier League banning the idiots and fining the clubs is pointless . Follow the protocol set out by the Authorities take the players off if the issue carries on game abandoned simple as that. But alas these authorities thrive on money and they rather give meanless fines then lose money through Stadium Bans or Abandoned games
Oh come on. The money players are on they should just laugh in the faces of the racists. Raheem knows and made fun of them
If we were to dock points or throw teams out of comps could fans be planted to abuse this?
I don’t understand why they won’t allow a guy that has actually been racially abused (Paul elliot) to speak instead you have people that have never experienced racial abuse speaking like they know how it feels 🤦🏾♂️
@The Big Bad White Man Because they never say it out loud? Say it out loud and people will listen.
@The Big Bad White Man Well it's like they say, it isn't a crime if there's no witness. Ergo, it isn't white racism if no one ever reports it. Really, you are the first person to have ever talked this up so much. And unfortunately for you, I'm whiter than most people in my country. So, I've never had to hear any "names" to throw tantrums for. You pathetic weasel of a leper on the other hand, I'm not so sure about you.
@The Big Bad White Man So you feel the need to say "I'm not the first person" twice, and you think I'm in the echo chamber?
And oddly enough, it seems you are the one who has trouble making sense of words! The crime bit was an analogy to racism. Without witnesses, neither exists. Read it again, dimwit. I know it takes longer to follow words for your ilk but it seems I definitely overestimated your grasp over the language.
And what in hell is a Pajeet? If you're trying to be mean, at least use names that I'd actually take a little offence to!
@The Big Bad White Man Yep reiterating your point twice, in a single line? You must be incredibly stupid to not be able to understand what echo has to do repetition, which you've used in the most pointless fashion imaginable.
You want answer to your point then quit negating what I say and bring your own point to the table. It definitely isn't a crime without witness, evidence or report. It definitely wouldn't have been deduced as a meteor impact having had wiped out nearly all life, without proper evidence. And it definitely isn't white racism without evidence, reports and witnesses coming forward and expressing so. All you've done so far to debate my point is declare my statements false without any counterpoint as to why that should be the case.
By the way, you are absolutely the first person in the world to have brought this up. What makes you think the KKK have the same agenda as you? Have you read their complete manifesto? Go and take a look there and come back if you believe what they believe and vice versa.
Oh and calling people names that have nothing to do with them is utterly stupid of you. It's like calling a monkey a pig and expecting it to be offended by it. You really are not very intelligent for me to have to question it. Do you really think a person who uses "low IQ response" like a patented catchphrase can be considered even remotely intelligent?
Surely a club cannot be punished for fan behaviour, its punishing a majority for what a minority has done
Funny, sounds a bit like how racism works.
These places are 20-30 years behind us. These guys are dinosaurs. We've cracked it here. Cringe
From all the controversy from the media and ignorance of fans, Raheem Sterling is gonna be one hell of a player as he is already proving
Players shouldn't have to walk off if it happens the game should be stopped and the fans have to go and the game continues whether that's the home or away fans
The next time it happens that team loses a home game and have to play away and operate at a 3 strike rule meaning if you lose 3 home games in a season due to this issue the you forfeit your home games for the following season
In international football where you will rarely have this issue 3 times in a season that country should be under investigation for 3 years and if there is a pattern over that period that Country forfeit their right to home games in qualifying for the following tournament
At that point the fans will police themselves and point out the individuals who are committing the crime and then those individuals get kicked out the stewards can only do so much we as fans need to take control of this if a player points out that he is being abused from a certain area send a police presence over there to protect the fans and give them the confidence to point the individuals out
If we really want to solve this issue there has to be zero tolerance
So you're saying that black people shouldn't play
What a moronic idea, then the racists win. Just force them to play in an empty stadium and give them a fat fine.
@11:47 - Lol Sam Alladyce saying Football is England's National Sport.... Is he on dope again..! National Sport of England is Cricket. And thats what always been, regardless to Football being more famous...!
Tbf, he said "a" national sport. Not "the". Cut the man some slack.
I'm probably not the first person to make this point, but how is this panel compromised of three white men and a black men commenting on this topic?
And they wouldn’t let the black man speak
They're saying they should walk if you look at it in a certain way. They all probably love football but it's also their career and day job, would you go to work and just take abuse? No I don't think so you'd probably walk away, why should it be different for the players
As long as there is systematic racism there will be racism in football
Games should be stopped and rescheduled. Teams whos fans are racially abusive should have the game forfeited and points dropped or match lost. Fans should be found and banned for life. It needs to be stopped not just talked about
Well said Gordon!!
There is a lot tht can be done to limit racial abuse in football, in NBA teams give fans life bans jus for abusing players, let's not fool ourselves it starts from the top
Sterling done the right thing by mugging them off after banging against them.
Let your football do the talking and let the authorities in governing associations hand out fines and bans.
Offending fans should have their teams play behind closed doors.
If a player decides to walk off the pitch then I will give him my full support. In any place of work racial abuse is unacceptable so the football field isn't exempt. Until the powers that be start taking this serious then the players should take matters into their own hands. Simple
Tell them how it's done, comrade Strachan
1:32 was not in Europe was in Bolivia
Big Sam and Gordon talking over Paul Elliot consistently is so annoying. Let him speak
Gordon calling people round his age dinosaurs lol
Why has Strachan been banned from sky????
Because the world is gone PC mad
@@Coddinho88 very true
This is stupid, if the whole team walk off then it would be a shame for UEFA or FIFA or the governing board. Teams should stand with their teammates and their players. If they are sacrificing points then its a poor reflection of the governing board. If UEFA have teams walking off their pitches they would actually do something about it. We have coaches, teammates and press all shirking the responsibility of being allies with black players. All too scared to stand-up, when they are not the ones being abused Is kick it out only for black players or for everyone? I love Strachan, Alladayce and but you are asking the wrong people because they obviously haven't felt this abuse. The racists wont win, they will be embarrassed if people walk off. the point is non of the current actions work which means more drastic steps need to be taken.
I'm confused - genuinely - about why racial abuse is somehow worse than any of the other abuse that players are showered with... I would think insults about your mum or your daughter would be a lot closer to home and vile
I find it unnecessary for the EPL to bring back the kick racism out scheme again as we don't need it. We all already know about racism and the colour of our skins but what I'd suggest is that the likes of Montenegro are penalised in someway. I suggest that Montenegro are heavily punished. The EPL need not do anything, the FA have done the right thing by reporting it.
I agree with big Sam technology is not use enough ..
What a stupid idea.
Big Sam is spot on.
I hope they dont refuse to play, we could win the euros at the moment
@Amitabh Bachchan 5% hahaha you are being very kind
This league would be fucked if no foreign people played in it.
And wheres Greg Ckarke now..hmmm 👀?
Never thought I'd say this but trust the old white man on racism
Thats so stupid
need to man up crying because there being called a few names players get abused all the time but if its rascist its a problem I think there is an inferiority complex to be so offended by it
Jamaican Sterling
yhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i agree
Bad sam needs more respect
Little birds.
Nope
Terrible idea
sterling is good
I just want an all-white English team. Why is it so much to ask.
Lol, a lot of people think that, but of course it is due to the scum in power.
So you wanna be at bottom in the Nations leauge and never qualify for nothing lol....
Backwards suggestion.
Trying to eradicate racism is trying to eradicate idiocy, good luck from trump country
I agree. It would be nice to see a few Englishmen in the England team.
What do you mean? and the scots do need justice after the murder Kazakhstan got away with.
They removed the Johnson debate 😂😂
Don’t think that would work pogba/mbappe are probably the only black player right now that people would turn off tv/ratings would drop if he wasn’t playing. (Van dijk is world class but he’s a CB. Sterling great but he does have enough international influence etc.) And we all know at the end of the day uefa and fifa only care about money
what😂 awful points made
lil joey how was it awful?
@@GOATZELWARDBANDWAGON. "Van Dijk is world class but he's a CB" ay solid point that
lil joey seriously tho can van dijk is the best player at Liverpool yet Salah gets all the Media coverage and brand money. Position matters
I understand what you mean. But i think a white person needs to walk off to send a message to white people, they will listen then.
Off subject.. I'm not feeling sterling's new found ego.. did u c him against Montenegro.. he thought he was ronaldo holding the ball and standing still like he had a bag of tricks to offer? Yes he has improved but from what I see he is erratic he has no ball control .. his ego doesn't match his talent. Also I'm not feeling how he and harry think they run things and tried to shut out odoi if you watch that Montenegro game you will see how they act towards him.