Part of the reason that Kirk wasn't able to have his little book events at libraries was because he wanted the libraries to sponsor him to do them. When they told him no, we don't really pay for people to come do events at the library but you're welcome to rent out the library space to hold your event just like any other citizen is able to do, he threw a tantrum and screamed about being persecuted.
He wanted LIBRARIES to pay him? He wanted the not-for-profit, paid for by tax dollars, PUBLIC SERVICE to *pay him* to come sell his books at libraries?!? I work in sales, and I do events that are intended to market my goods to the public, and *I PAY* for it because I will get a return on my investment, the locations don’t pay me to come sell something out of their space!!!! At best they’ll let me use the space for free IF they’ll get a good return on their investment. What return does he think the libraries will get for spending our tax dollars on him selling his books???? This story tells me he is more than just selfish, he is also a moron who doesn’t know how business works.
That is exactly what happened, but most of the publicity about this neglected to include the whole story. Kirky could have chosen to pay for the rooms, but he wanted the libraries to ENDORSE him.
Also, he (or rather Brave Books) demanded the libraries give him a pre-Christmas time slot on their public reading program calendar. They contacted the libraries for this in early December, when of course the schedule was already completely filled. Even if the book had been good, it was obviously far too late to apply to get it in before Christmas. Therefore, the entire "controversy" was an engineered scandal to begin with. I suppose people in the fundie bubble think that Kirk Cameron is such a big-name star that any library should be happy to dump the person who'd gone through channels to get that premium time and give it to him, because True Christians™ deserve all the good things.
Idk if it’s just my personal traumas from being an abuse victim at a young age, but telling kids that “love hurts” and they should sacrifice their own wellbeing for the happiness of others is… extremely disturbing. I grew up in that mindset and ended up being abused by MULTIPLE people online in various ways because I wanted to make them happy, we need to teach our kids about boundaries and tell them that if a relationship is hurting them, it is NOT HEALTHY.
I heard a couple of the libraries said he was more than welcome to come read his book whenever he wanted, but they were not going to pay him to read it. He's claiming that they pay the drag queens for their story hours but they aren't paying them either.
I commented this elsewhere but have to repeat it, this story is proof the man is an idiot. The reason why a location may be will to sponsor someone hosting an event in their space is because that business may get a good return on their investment. Libraries are not for profit, they’re a public service, so there is not ROI on paying people to come in to host events. THERE IS an ROI for the authors coming in to host events, as they’re the ones selling a good, so they should be the ones investing the money into the event. His confusion about this proves the man is a moron and expects hand outs at every turn.
Wow. Kirk is out of touch! If you were to ask an average person "do people who do storytime at the library get paid for it?" Most would accurately say "no." I've always understood that as a *volunteer* position!
"love hurts but is always worth it" is the real grooming behavior. I know it's probably suppose to be like "god's righteous rebuking" or something but it's incredibly toxic and enables abuse
Oh your spot on. There is so much victim blaming in Christianity, I distinctly remember being told that bad things happened to people because they weren’t “walking God’s path”. This leads to a lot of anxiety and guilt in adults later in life, just for experiencing normal human emotions. It’s toxic af.
I’d say it depends on what they mean by it hurting, like if you were supporting a sick friend that would hurt but that’s because you hate to see them suffer, but in this case, I have not doubt it’s what you suspect it is.
The sad thing is Saving Christmas is hardly even about putting Christ back in Christmas. The entire thing is about justifying Christians throwing lavish Christmas parties and not donating money to the poor because that is somehow… worshipping… Jesus… apparently. Thanks for the review! You are absolutely right about politics in children’s books. A message of “accept people of every race, gender, and sexuality” is very different from “believe in Jesus and don’t let the government take your guns.”
I was genuinely confused by Kirk's movie about how Christians need to be more materialistic at Christmastime. Really confused. He must be so used to being wealthy he doesn't understand that most people have financial limits
When I was in college I wrote a story and used a computer program to print a book. In 1995. So…kinda primitive. I colored it with colored pencils, then I used cardboard, fabric, scissors, and glue to make it into a book. I gave it to my dad for Christmas and he LOVED it. My college project in 1995 was better than this book.
Boy I had quite a flashback to "I'm in the Lord's army" To the point where I was startled when Rachel didn't add in the "YES SIR!" (the motion being a salute) at the end of the verse like the version of that song I had listened to as a kid had. I had repressed that memory, apparently. I knew there was a lot of creepy mind-control-y christian songs in my past but there seems to have been more than I remember. (I am not religious and had been pulling away as a teen but couldn't truly leave until I became an adult. Sometimes when thinking back on things like this I wonder how I was able to stop myself and go "wait, this doesn't seem right to me." after a lifetime of conditioning to blindly follow the church.)
About that "strength and gentleness" line, there's a point in Mulan II, the sequel to Disney's Mulan (the animated version) where a kid asks in response to Mulan saying that very line, "How can you be strong AND gentle??!!". And Mulan responds with a song that shows a basic idea of the concepts (with motions, of course, but not the kinds of motions you see in fundy songs which explain nothing, the motions Mulan uses get the point across a lot better). Of course, that song might not explain it either, but at least that one's an attempt at an age-appropriate explanation.
@@kylejones8289 Yep. Because while Mulan II isn't exactly shitty, it's not a great movie, either. It's more like an average film. Of course, nearly all fundy media is way below average in terms of quality (and some is so bad it looks like it was written by an AI).
Something I've realized is that the grooming with songs is also done to adults, The churches I attended when I was still Christian had commonality within their "song services," where we'd sing along to whatever songs the church band and choir were singing All of these songs were 1. Simple and 2. Catchy Meant to be easily learned, and easily get stuck in your head and repeat on loop. Reinforcing those messages being told to you. I learned these songs as a mentally ill teenager Prime real-estate for Christians Who prey upon vulnerable people because they are more likely to buy what they are selling "Well, if you only gave yourself to God, he could take care of your illness," "Well, if only you pray enough, he might cure you," "If only you gave enough of yourself to him, your prayers would be answered"
As someone who wants to write and paint a children’s book one day this break down was incredibly helpful. Not only helpful, but also very entertaining! Thank you!! ♥️
Love the conversations in this! The fundie world Rachel describes is what I grew up in too. Ugh. I wanted to clarify on the Christian-ese around LGBTQ+ "sides" in the evangelical world. Side A is actually fully affirming of LGBTQ+ people and says queer people were intentionally created and relationships with the same gender are totally fine. Side B would consider it "same sex attraction" and a burden of temptation that you might have to deal with your whole life. So you should choose to be celibate or enter inter a mixed-orientation marriage with someone of the opposite gender. Then you can go to further extremes that would include conversion therapy and praying the gay away and all that terribleness.
You said he called them cadets and I thought “oh it’s bc they’re in the lords army” and then it wasn’t just an intrusive thought of the entire song but a literal physical response of my body wanting to do the motions. I’m 37 and have not sung that song for at least 16yrs. Definitely NOT grooming.
Same! I had a VHS tape growing up that I would put on repeat. I don’t remember the dance but I sure remembered the entire song before she said it. So weird in retrospect.
Same! As an adult everything about that song is so creepy! The words and the motions and the way it's drilled into kids heads..... just makes my skin crawl!
The “Sometimes love hurts but it’s always worth it” could be about spanking your children. I always remember my parents saying “This hurts me more than it’ll hurt you, I do it because I love you”
I love that you are both laughing that Kirk Cameron was a heart throb when he was on Growing Pains, he was until he became fundie when he was 17 and it turns out it was because his girlfriend at the time was fundie and it resonated with him. After that he refused to do the storylines that aligned with how his character had been up until then and so became a problem on the set. It did take a while before that took the shine off of his heart throb status though. Looks like we have him to blame for the whole family being the fundies that they are today.
Yes- you are correct-Kirk was a heartthrob back then. He and I are the same age and I definitely crushed on Kirk. He was on the cover of all the teen magazines. Once he became a born again fundie, his mainstream career was over. He was terrible and judgmental to his costars. Sadly he, Ricky Schroeder and Scott Baio have turned into Right-wing d*uche€b@gs.
I always remember that he got an actress fired from the show because she did Playboy. When I heard that I thought it was a dick move. I guess over the years he has just gotten worse.
i love when savy breaks out into laughter at the mention of the lord's army 😂 i grew similarly to rachel, so it didn't seem weird to me at all when i was young. now it seems bizarre for sure.
I literally had to skip that part because of the memoriesss, I grew up the same way and it didn't seem weird, it was fun and I still know the whole dance, BUT ITS SO WEIRD
When I tell you that Rachel made this recovered churchy black girl feel SEEN! I IMMEDIATELY thought you were talking about the song “we are soldiers…in the army…the have to fight, although we have to die. We have to hold up the blood stained banner. We have to hold it up until we die!” and was catapulted into the red pews of my childhood church…where I couldn’t wear pants when I gave my sermons, & the fact that the white fundies refer to gayness as SAA, is so kind compared to the commentary of the churchy blacks. 👀👀👀 So you can imagine that things got REALLY dodgey for this closeted bisexual youth leader/ministerial staff member. 😂😂😂 #religioustraumaanyone?! I love this video so much! The vibe was everything & this book is absolutely insane! I died when Rachel was like “wait wait wait…the TREE is the main character?!” As a fellow mommy of a tiny human that is painfully literal, this book would just piss her off soooo badly! Lol
fun fact there are females lioness that grow manes and even start adopting lion behavior. It's thought to be because of too much testosterone and that they are largely infertile ( they do mount other lioness but also try to mate with lions but seem unsuccessful)
Kept seeing people mentioning that the lords army unlocked a memory & I was like "Huh. I wonder if I know this one, I don't remember the title though" but YUP! As soon as Rachel started reading the lyrics, my brain was singing it
The Lord's Army song unlocked memories. I'd spend the night at my cousins' house and they grew up baptist fundie. I wanted to comment that there's hand movements until Rachel did them! Woah, I haven't thought of that for a long time.
"Love should hurt" as a moral directed at children is either going to create a future BDSM enthusiast or seriously, no joke, an abuse victim who gets gaslit into believing that the shame and pain is just how their abuser demonstrates their "love." It's incredibly warped and dangerous. My wager is that it was intended to sneak in a bit of corporal punishment apologetics.
I was going to borrow the ebook from my library, but there isn’t one 😢. What boggles my mind is that anyone thinks it’s okay to charge $22.99 for a children’s book. I can’t believe I had KC posted on my wall in my youth.
I really wish fundies, particularly Christian fundies, would just stop writing garbage books. It's embarrassing. Like... go ahead and write a book. Write about your faith. That's totally cool; but for the love biblically-accurate Jesus, at least TRY to write something decent. You don't need to be the next Dostoyevski or Bronte, but you should at least strive to be something a little more than aggressively mediocre.
He says that love hurts sometimes to justify spanking if you ask me. And everything is like everybody has to sacrify themselves for the father/husband, typicl radical religion. Such a foul book.
So I once had this super annoying boss and she always made personal calls at work. One day, we caught her on the phone WITH KIRK CAMERON'S MOM, trying to get her to set up a meeting between Kirk and boss' actor husband. Because he wasn't getting any acting jobs because he refused to ever play a villain. I swear I am not making any of that up.
@@teijaflink2226 the whole thing was SO DUMB. My coworkers and I kept poking out heads out from our cubicles to look at each other like "are we really hearing this??"
Authors behaving badly is my favorite series on here! You go in expecting snarky Twitter fights and BAM you get hit with murder plots and cross country stalking!!
I was raised Catholic, but as soon as you started reading out the lyrics, the tune and the movements popped into my head. I went to other Christian summer camps so that might have been where I learned it. Man, this crap never truly leaves you, does it?
The only kid-appropriate version of love hurting sometimes that I can think of is the pain of someone you love dying, since your sadness is usually a testament of the love you had for them.
The part with the tree branch being broken I believe is a reference to a commonly used analogy in sermons: that we need to “prune branches” off ourselves that are not compatible with God. This led to me trying to “prune” being bisexual…. Totally worked
i often forget sometimes that my family used to be family friends w the cameron’s.. uh safe to say they’re literally insane… kirk cameron and his whole family are so convinced that he’s like an A list celebrity and everyone wants to be him and uses him for his fame. like brother ur just a christian guy who happened to be in some movies
The spare use of words in the book… It suddenly struck me that it might be by design so that the adult reading to the children can “fill in the blanks with evangelistic messaging”. If Kirk ever got a chance to read to children in a library, he would have the chance to insert the propaganda using his own voice.
The song at 36:50 That gave me ptsd flashbacks help that is something I was forced to perform for years three times a year in front of the “adult” group
I just realized how odd it is that fundies fully support people making a sacrifice by giving their lives on the battlefield but they don't support people sacrificing some of their money to ensure that everyone is supported by a safety net. They like some sacrifices but not others.
Maybe "love hurts" is supposed teach children that all the corporal and emotional punishment their fundie parents dish out is okay. As well as supporting the "love the sinner hate the sin" BS they teach.
Maybe they gave the book blurb to the illustrator, but then Kirk Cameron didn't get the book bourb (or didn't read the book blurb) and Mike Seaver-ed the book. Wait, never mind, Mike Seaver would at least have paid or tricked a ghost writer to write something decent.
Kirk is NO "icon". And he's not a very good Christian either (in my opinion). I've heard him on a number of occasions talking about his Faith, and every time he went off into a tangent about how "sinners" were everywhere, and how "Christians" like him were being persecuted. I'm a Christian, and I don't feel like I'm being persecuted for it....but then again I believe that Christians need to avoid judging others, and viciously attacking them with scripture (unless of course they happen to be without sin themselves). I have a feeling people just don't like Kirk (and "Christians" like him) because just maybe he's an annoying, hateful jerk. Just my opinion.
LOVE the scrapbook idea. Maybe using multiple terrible kids books to create one good one. Using the words and cutting them out serial killer style too.
Two of my most favorite book related UA-camrs, you’re both awesome keep up the great work! I’m probably gonna go to bed but I will be back later to finish the rest of this video!
I use to watch growing pains when I was a kid and the growing pains movie's Kirk has truly lost his mind if he believes he's still a big star when he isn't anymore
Shouldn’t the tree represent Jesus or God or whatever? If it’s Christian propaganda, they should be advertising what Jesus/God can do to support you. That you may not notice Him, but He’s the foundation to your life and community and will always support you with His branches. But I’m not Christian, what do I know?
You reading a tiny blurb about Barbara got me a bit curious as to her background, mostly because the part that you read only mentioned the 2 famous children and not her other 2. Turns out one of those 2 had a successful career as a stand in (says so on her IMDB page written by her) and as an adult has been in a couple of Kirk's movies. The other sister is a producer and home schools her 5 children and all 4 siblings are fundies I thought this blurb on one of Barbara's books was funny considering the industry that they are in The Amish Farmer's Proposal About the author (2022) Barbara Cameron enjoys writing about the spiritual values and simple joys of the Amish. She is the best-selling author of more than 40 fiction and nonfiction books, three nationally televised movies, and the winner of the first Romance Writers of America Golden Heart Award. Her books have been nominated for Carol Awards and the Inspirational Reader's Choice Award from RWA's Faith, Hope, and Love chapter. Barbara resides in Jacksonville, Florida.
As a writer who has a children's book series, I find this so very disturbing. It seems like the books were written by people who have never actually read a children's book. If they ban all our books, then books like these will saturate the market. Scary and disheartening.
I clicked on the video because @readswithrachel is in it. I didn’t have the energy to hear about KC because he sucks. But I really wanted to see how the two of your interacted. It was great. I don’t like the tree is like the rainbow fish (hate that book) and I really forgot how fundie I grew up until I started watching more youtube during covid. Like I remember doing the lords army song in every church and youth group. I’m very glad that my parents jumped ship when I was in high school, and my youngest siblings know less religious trauma.
Here's the not-Christian version of Jesus Loves Me that I taught my kids: Kitty loves me, this I know, for my mommy told me so. Little ones she will sit on. She is cold, but they are warm. Yes, kitty loves me! Yes, kitty loves me! Yes, kitty loves me! My mommy told me so
The 'in the lord's army' song unlocked a fucking deep core memory. I absolutely hate it. If you want to talk about indoctrination stuff, Bible quizzing is wild
If anyone has a fascination with fundamentalist Christianity like I do I’d suggest Fundie Fridays here on UA-cam for a snarky look at the subject. I think Jen and Savvy would be great friends.
If you want to check out an indie children's book series that actually makes a difference, I highly recommend the Young Change Makers books. My absolute favorite kid in my life, Bryce, is in the fifth book in the series. They're such great books.
I'm now questioning whether I grew up partially fundie because I know this song and the tune is now stuck in my head. I'm now questioning all the other songs I learned in church growing up... was it all grooming? 😳
watching rachel rise to fame is so weird as someone who literally had to go through my google history manually to remember who she was 2 years ago. one day i woke up and i was randomly like "who was that black haired book lady" like months after watching my first video of hers lol! she handles the attention so well! and she's consistent with her message! love her!
Savvy, have you run across Max Lucado in the fundie children's books world? He writes Christian-flavoured inspirational books, and the art's often pretty nice, but they're really obvious, overly sentimental allegories that are extremely repetitive.
26:47, 27:00 anyone notice that the evil warmaking animals are black? I’m sure it wasn’t intentional but that kinda makes it worse ETA: holy balls that “I’m in the Lord’s Army” song! INSTANT FLASHBACKS
31:44 (ish) Okay, explaining the sides. Originally, Side A vs Side B was just about gay marriage and/or gay sex. Side A is the pro gay marriage side, while Side B is the anti gay marriage side, noting that this is *just* about your own denomination marrying people, so "I support gay civil marriage, just not gay religious marriage" would still be considered Side B. However, being such a basic distinction, there's also diversity of thought on both sides. For example, a lot of people on Side A might still oppose premarital sex, and just also allow gay couples to marry (and have sex), while a lot of others don't care about that. (According to one r/Christianity straw poll, Side A is split about 40% anti premarital gay sex, 60% pro premarital gay sex) Meanwhile, the differences within Side B are more about whether it's sinful to even have a gay crush on someone, so unlike with Side A, you'll occasionally see additional sides for those. Side X is probably the most recognized of them. It originally refers to the whole ex-gay movement, but also gets used slightly more broadly for it being sinful to even be attracted to someone. So in the three-way A/B/X split, Side B proper says it isn't sinful to have a crush on someone, only to ask them out, while Side X says it is. But finally, and as the weirdest side to explain, there's Side Y. See... conservatives frequently do this thing where they use the same words as liberals, but with different meanings. So for example, when a lot of conservatives hear or say "homosexuality", they're thinking of gay sex specifically, not the mere concept of being attracted to someone, which starts to explain things like why they're opposed to kids identifying as gay or learning about "homosexuality". To their ears, that sounds like kids having or learning about gay sex. But because of this, and speaking from experience, a *lot* of Side X people, if actually pushed on it, will admit to holding a position closer to Side B, just with different words. And so while there isn't a strict definition of Side Y, like there is for the other three, I'd generally use it for the "Don't call yourself gay" crowd. So to summarize and illustrate, imagine there's some guy Adam who realizes he has a crush on his friend Steve and asks him out. The two start dating, Adam and Steve start identifying as gay, they have sex, and, eventually, they get married. What does each side think is a sin in all that, if anything? Side A would say that next to none of that was, but they'd be split on the sex - not because it was gay, but because they weren't married. Side B would say that asking him out, having sex, and getting married were, but not the crush or identifying as gay. Side Y would say the crush was the only bit of that that wasn't sinful. And Side X would say that everything, including the crush, was sinful
I was raised Catholic in a heavily fundamentalist Protestant area (yay for the 1-2 punch of bullying over my queerness and religion!), and while I’d hear bits and pieces about fundamentalist stuff, I never would have imagined the whole weird godly military thing. I do have a friend who is a “B side” queer, and it’s always heartbreaking to hear them talk about that stuff because it’s so plainly obvious how much it hurts them
Great review ladies. I grew up in the IFB as a minister's son. We were taught to read a book called the Two Babylons that literally taught that the Catholic Church was created by Satan and is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation.
Kirk Cameron doesn't get children or Christ and I hope he doesn't keep making books. I remember before he become super Christian and he was a nice person afterwards he was judgmental and rude.
A lot of people dont actually know what socialism is. A lot of Christian's say that socialism is bad because they kinda use that as another word for communism. And in America you tend to not learn what communism is exactly, just that its bad. Also I agree on the hair on furries thing but a lot of furries add hair on their fursonas and you guys are calling them out lmao
Quite a few of the books where I live (uk) has little games at the end that tie in with the stories. Usually little pictures of the illustrations, so the kids can retell the story back to you so you know they listened. Also seen like a little quiz or things to do that are related to the book (ie bear hunt why don't you take your Teddy and go on a bear hunt, type thing). It's really good, it's mostly in my first type books that kids are supposed to read eith their parents. You should totally add something like it.
Part of the reason that Kirk wasn't able to have his little book events at libraries was because he wanted the libraries to sponsor him to do them. When they told him no, we don't really pay for people to come do events at the library but you're welcome to rent out the library space to hold your event just like any other citizen is able to do, he threw a tantrum and screamed about being persecuted.
Shocking that Kirk would leave that part out. /s 🙄
He wanted LIBRARIES to pay him? He wanted the not-for-profit, paid for by tax dollars, PUBLIC SERVICE to *pay him* to come sell his books at libraries?!?
I work in sales, and I do events that are intended to market my goods to the public, and *I PAY* for it because I will get a return on my investment, the locations don’t pay me to come sell something out of their space!!!! At best they’ll let me use the space for free IF they’ll get a good return on their investment. What return does he think the libraries will get for spending our tax dollars on him selling his books???? This story tells me he is more than just selfish, he is also a moron who doesn’t know how business works.
That is exactly what happened, but most of the publicity about this neglected to include the whole story. Kirky could have chosen to pay for the rooms, but he wanted the libraries to ENDORSE him.
Totally on brand.
Also, he (or rather Brave Books) demanded the libraries give him a pre-Christmas time slot on their public reading program calendar. They contacted the libraries for this in early December, when of course the schedule was already completely filled. Even if the book had been good, it was obviously far too late to apply to get it in before Christmas.
Therefore, the entire "controversy" was an engineered scandal to begin with. I suppose people in the fundie bubble think that Kirk Cameron is such a big-name star that any library should be happy to dump the person who'd gone through channels to get that premium time and give it to him, because True Christians™ deserve all the good things.
Idk if it’s just my personal traumas from being an abuse victim at a young age, but telling kids that “love hurts” and they should sacrifice their own wellbeing for the happiness of others is… extremely disturbing. I grew up in that mindset and ended up being abused by MULTIPLE people online in various ways because I wanted to make them happy, we need to teach our kids about boundaries and tell them that if a relationship is hurting them, it is NOT HEALTHY.
Then how will the parents maintain complete control?
As a children's librarian, im happy to see people tear into propaganda in children's books
I heard a couple of the libraries said he was more than welcome to come read his book whenever he wanted, but they were not going to pay him to read it. He's claiming that they pay the drag queens for their story hours but they aren't paying them either.
I commented this elsewhere but have to repeat it, this story is proof the man is an idiot.
The reason why a location may be will to sponsor someone hosting an event in their space is because that business may get a good return on their investment. Libraries are not for profit, they’re a public service, so there is not ROI on paying people to come in to host events. THERE IS an ROI for the authors coming in to host events, as they’re the ones selling a good, so they should be the ones investing the money into the event.
His confusion about this proves the man is a moron and expects hand outs at every turn.
Wow. Kirk is out of touch! If you were to ask an average person "do people who do storytime at the library get paid for it?" Most would accurately say "no." I've always understood that as a *volunteer* position!
Someone needs to ask him why he feels specially entitled to other people's hard-earned tax dollars!
@@dinosaysrawr if only he'd give a real answer and not just whataboutism nonsense...
@@MyPumpkinSpicedChaos , well, that wouldn't be good for the grift, would it?
"love hurts but is always worth it" is the real grooming behavior. I know it's probably suppose to be like "god's righteous rebuking" or something but it's incredibly toxic and enables abuse
Oh your spot on. There is so much victim blaming in Christianity, I distinctly remember being told that bad things happened to people because they weren’t “walking God’s path”. This leads to a lot of anxiety and guilt in adults later in life, just for experiencing normal human emotions. It’s toxic af.
I had the same thought.
I’d say it depends on what they mean by it hurting, like if you were supporting a sick friend that would hurt but that’s because you hate to see them suffer, but in this case, I have not doubt it’s what you suspect it is.
The sad thing is Saving Christmas is hardly even about putting Christ back in Christmas. The entire thing is about justifying Christians throwing lavish Christmas parties and not donating money to the poor because that is somehow… worshipping… Jesus… apparently.
Thanks for the review! You are absolutely right about politics in children’s books. A message of “accept people of every race, gender, and sexuality” is very different from “believe in Jesus and don’t let the government take your guns.”
I don't think there's much difference, honestly.
Seriously. It's prosperity gospel propaganda
And claiming Pagan customs are totally Christian. Decorated Christmas trees are like the Garden of Eden.
@@kwallacetube681 Oh yeah, that too!
I was genuinely confused by Kirk's movie about how Christians need to be more materialistic at Christmastime. Really confused. He must be so used to being wealthy he doesn't understand that most people have financial limits
The printed in Canada reaction at the end was fantastic. As a Canadian, I would say that we really don't need their business, please.
Ahh yes! Christian hypocrisy at its finest. Pro-American, but outsources the printing.
When I was in college I wrote a story and used a computer program to print a book. In 1995. So…kinda primitive. I colored it with colored pencils, then I used cardboard, fabric, scissors, and glue to make it into a book. I gave it to my dad for Christmas and he LOVED it.
My college project in 1995 was better than this book.
That's adorable and I'm sure it totally was.
I love that
thats not a fair comparison though because you put thought and care into your book
That's a cute story. =3
Boy I had quite a flashback to "I'm in the Lord's army" To the point where I was startled when Rachel didn't add in the "YES SIR!" (the motion being a salute) at the end of the verse like the version of that song I had listened to as a kid had. I had repressed that memory, apparently. I knew there was a lot of creepy mind-control-y christian songs in my past but there seems to have been more than I remember. (I am not religious and had been pulling away as a teen but couldn't truly leave until I became an adult. Sometimes when thinking back on things like this I wonder how I was able to stop myself and go "wait, this doesn't seem right to me." after a lifetime of conditioning to blindly follow the church.)
Seymour Clues is such an Ace Attorney name I love it
About that "strength and gentleness" line, there's a point in Mulan II, the sequel to Disney's Mulan (the animated version) where a kid asks in response to Mulan saying that very line, "How can you be strong AND gentle??!!". And Mulan responds with a song that shows a basic idea of the concepts (with motions, of course, but not the kinds of motions you see in fundy songs which explain nothing, the motions Mulan uses get the point across a lot better). Of course, that song might not explain it either, but at least that one's an attempt at an age-appropriate explanation.
You know you've messed up if Mulan II is being used as a better example on how to do something.
@@kylejones8289 Yep. Because while Mulan II isn't exactly shitty, it's not a great movie, either. It's more like an average film. Of course, nearly all fundy media is way below average in terms of quality (and some is so bad it looks like it was written by an AI).
Something I've realized is that the grooming with songs is also done to adults,
The churches I attended when I was still Christian had commonality within their "song services," where we'd sing along to whatever songs the church band and choir were singing
All of these songs were 1. Simple and 2. Catchy
Meant to be easily learned, and easily get stuck in your head and repeat on loop. Reinforcing those messages being told to you.
I learned these songs as a mentally ill teenager
Prime real-estate for Christians
Who prey upon vulnerable people because they are more likely to buy what they are selling
"Well, if you only gave yourself to God, he could take care of your illness,"
"Well, if only you pray enough, he might cure you,"
"If only you gave enough of yourself to him, your prayers would be answered"
As someone who wants to write and paint a children’s book one day this break down was incredibly helpful.
Not only helpful, but also very entertaining! Thank you!! ♥️
Love the conversations in this! The fundie world Rachel describes is what I grew up in too. Ugh. I wanted to clarify on the Christian-ese around LGBTQ+ "sides" in the evangelical world. Side A is actually fully affirming of LGBTQ+ people and says queer people were intentionally created and relationships with the same gender are totally fine. Side B would consider it "same sex attraction" and a burden of temptation that you might have to deal with your whole life. So you should choose to be celibate or enter inter a mixed-orientation marriage with someone of the opposite gender. Then you can go to further extremes that would include conversion therapy and praying the gay away and all that terribleness.
You said he called them cadets and I thought “oh it’s bc they’re in the lords army” and then it wasn’t just an intrusive thought of the entire song but a literal physical response of my body wanting to do the motions. I’m 37 and have not sung that song for at least 16yrs.
Definitely NOT grooming.
Same! I had a VHS tape growing up that I would put on repeat. I don’t remember the dance but I sure remembered the entire song before she said it.
So weird in retrospect.
Same! As an adult everything about that song is so creepy! The words and the motions and the way it's drilled into kids heads..... just makes my skin crawl!
Definitely unlocked a memory somewhere. I had forgotten that song existed
I can't even express how much I relate to this. Oof.
It's actually very typical for furries to put more hair on top of the fur to get like human hair styles.
The whole thing about the "Island of Free Ice Cream" is bad is hilarious
In WW2 the US Navy had a ship that, I kid you not, gave out free ice cream
The “Sometimes love hurts but it’s always worth it” could be about spanking your children. I always remember my parents saying “This hurts me more than it’ll hurt you, I do it because I love you”
Person: "I struggle with master*****". Me: "why, are you doing it wrong?"
I absolutely struggle with it 😏
I love that you are both laughing that Kirk Cameron was a heart throb when he was on Growing Pains, he was until he became fundie when he was 17 and it turns out it was because his girlfriend at the time was fundie and it resonated with him. After that he refused to do the storylines that aligned with how his character had been up until then and so became a problem on the set. It did take a while before that took the shine off of his heart throb status though.
Looks like we have him to blame for the whole family being the fundies that they are today.
Yes- you are correct-Kirk was a heartthrob back then. He and I are the same age and I definitely crushed on Kirk. He was on the cover of all the teen magazines. Once he became a born again fundie, his mainstream career was over. He was terrible and judgmental to his costars. Sadly he, Ricky Schroeder and Scott Baio have turned into Right-wing d*uche€b@gs.
I loved him! Until he became weird with Chelsea.
I always remember that he got an actress fired from the show because she did Playboy. When I heard that I thought it was a dick move. I guess over the years he has just gotten worse.
"No, Savy, I have to correct you. The back of the book says he is, uh, an icon."
The is an immediate subscribe from me. 😂
i love when savy breaks out into laughter at the mention of the lord's army 😂 i grew similarly to rachel, so it didn't seem weird to me at all when i was young. now it seems bizarre for sure.
I literally had to skip that part because of the memoriesss, I grew up the same way and it didn't seem weird, it was fun and I still know the whole dance, BUT ITS SO WEIRD
"caloric density of a communion wafer" is a burn for the ages
😂😂😂
Why are the cheetahs dressed in medieval clothes and standing in a snowy forest??? They're native to Africa and Iran.
The Giving Tree: But make it fundie.
When Rachel recited the Lord's Army lyrics my body took a screenshot. XD Two of my fave reviewers in one video is always a good time!
“I can’t believe they said the quiet part out loud.” If there wasn’t a sleeping person near me, the scream I would have screamt. 😂
When I tell you that Rachel made this recovered churchy black girl feel SEEN! I IMMEDIATELY thought you were talking about the song “we are soldiers…in the army…the have to fight, although we have to die. We have to hold up the blood stained banner. We have to hold it up until we die!” and was catapulted into the red pews of my childhood church…where I couldn’t wear pants when I gave my sermons, & the fact that the white fundies refer to gayness as SAA, is so kind compared to the commentary of the churchy blacks. 👀👀👀 So you can imagine that things got REALLY dodgey for this closeted bisexual youth leader/ministerial staff member. 😂😂😂 #religioustraumaanyone?!
I love this video so much! The vibe was everything & this book is absolutely insane! I died when Rachel was like “wait wait wait…the TREE is the main character?!” As a fellow mommy of a tiny human that is painfully literal, this book would just piss her off soooo badly! Lol
Male lions are the sex of that species who grow manes so is the lion with a braid a #transicon?
fun fact there are females lioness that grow manes and even start adopting lion behavior. It's thought to be because of too much testosterone and that they are largely infertile ( they do mount other lioness but also try to mate with lions but seem unsuccessful)
@@jasonbolding3481 so the long haired lioness might be a trans icon or an intersex and possibly gay/bi/queer icon?
In any case, #accidentalally
Kept seeing people mentioning that the lords army unlocked a memory & I was like "Huh. I wonder if I know this one, I don't remember the title though" but YUP! As soon as Rachel started reading the lyrics, my brain was singing it
The Lord's Army song unlocked memories. I'd spend the night at my cousins' house and they grew up baptist fundie. I wanted to comment that there's hand movements until Rachel did them! Woah, I haven't thought of that for a long time.
"Love should hurt" as a moral directed at children is either going to create a future BDSM enthusiast or seriously, no joke, an abuse victim who gets gaslit into believing that the shame and pain is just how their abuser demonstrates their "love." It's incredibly warped and dangerous. My wager is that it was intended to sneak in a bit of corporal punishment apologetics.
This the cinematic universe crossover that I never knew I needed
As a child I thought the song "I'm in the lord's army" was "I'm in the Lord's RV". God and I were going camping.
41:34 I was waiting for you to say 'That's muscle mommy, SHE'S AN ICON!'
I love Rachel so much! What a great collaboration, please do more together!
I was going to borrow the ebook from my library, but there isn’t one 😢. What boggles my mind is that anyone thinks it’s okay to charge $22.99 for a children’s book.
I can’t believe I had KC posted on my wall in my youth.
I really wish fundies, particularly Christian fundies, would just stop writing garbage books. It's embarrassing.
Like... go ahead and write a book. Write about your faith. That's totally cool; but for the love biblically-accurate Jesus, at least TRY to write something decent. You don't need to be the next Dostoyevski or Bronte, but you should at least strive to be something a little more than aggressively mediocre.
With the only male animals being in the military part, my brain just decided to say "God FORBID women do anything"
We furries do not claim Kirk Cameron, no matter how much Zootopia fanfiction he pens.
He says that love hurts sometimes to justify spanking if you ask me.
And everything is like everybody has to sacrify themselves for the father/husband, typicl radical religion.
Such a foul book.
So I once had this super annoying boss and she always made personal calls at work. One day, we caught her on the phone WITH KIRK CAMERON'S MOM, trying to get her to set up a meeting between Kirk and boss' actor husband. Because he wasn't getting any acting jobs because he refused to ever play a villain.
I swear I am not making any of that up.
Lol she really thought Kirk could help him get acting jobs, he barely gets any himself.
@@teijaflink2226 the whole thing was SO DUMB. My coworkers and I kept poking out heads out from our cubicles to look at each other like "are we really hearing this??"
The Antibot did do a video on “christianese” which is the term for fundamentalist Jargon, you might enjoy that
Rachel's description of her channel has immediately won me over, def gonna be checking her channel out after this
Authors behaving badly is my favorite series on here! You go in expecting snarky Twitter fights and BAM you get hit with murder plots and cross country stalking!!
I was raised Catholic, but as soon as you started reading out the lyrics, the tune and the movements popped into my head. I went to other Christian summer camps so that might have been where I learned it. Man, this crap never truly leaves you, does it?
The only kid-appropriate version of love hurting sometimes that I can think of is the pain of someone you love dying, since your sadness is usually a testament of the love you had for them.
He managed to write an even worse version of The Giving Tree
The part with the tree branch being broken I believe is a reference to a commonly used analogy in sermons: that we need to “prune branches” off ourselves that are not compatible with God. This led to me trying to “prune” being bisexual…. Totally worked
i often forget sometimes that my family used to be family friends w the cameron’s.. uh safe to say they’re literally insane… kirk cameron and his whole family are so convinced that he’s like an A list celebrity and everyone wants to be him and uses him for his fame. like brother ur just a christian guy who happened to be in some movies
I think with love hurts. It can be when someone dies? Because grief is just love for the person/pet that is no longer with us.
Can't risk a child thinking that 2 adult animals might not be a male and female pair, so must add girlie hair to one.
The spare use of words in the book… It suddenly struck me that it might be by design so that the adult reading to the children can “fill in the blanks with evangelistic messaging”. If Kirk ever got a chance to read to children in a library, he would have the chance to insert the propaganda using his own voice.
Hannah and Jake and God Awful Movies have reviewed Fireproof, qnother "awful" Kirk Cameron movie. He's the "gift" that keeps on giving.
The song at 36:50
That gave me ptsd flashbacks help that is something I was forced to perform for years three times a year in front of the “adult” group
I just realized how odd it is that fundies fully support people making a sacrifice by giving their lives on the battlefield but they don't support people sacrificing some of their money to ensure that everyone is supported by a safety net. They like some sacrifices but not others.
Now every time I hear Kirk say he wrote a book I will think "yOuR mOm WrOtE a BoOk!"
Real talk, non-Americans make a lot of money off our political shit show. Like that British marketing company that promoted Trump.
Maybe "love hurts" is supposed teach children that all the corporal and emotional punishment their fundie parents dish out is okay. As well as supporting the "love the sinner hate the sin" BS they teach.
Maybe they gave the book blurb to the illustrator, but then Kirk Cameron didn't get the book bourb (or didn't read the book blurb) and Mike Seaver-ed the book. Wait, never mind, Mike Seaver would at least have paid or tricked a ghost writer to write something decent.
I'm 75. I take my philosophy from Terry Pratchett, not Kirk Cameron.
"Remember, if you're scared, anxious, or worried, then you don't trust God enough"
Kirk is NO "icon". And he's not a very good Christian either (in my opinion). I've heard him on a number of occasions talking about his Faith, and every time he went off into a tangent about how "sinners" were everywhere, and how "Christians" like him were being persecuted. I'm a Christian, and I don't feel like I'm being persecuted for it....but then again I believe that Christians need to avoid judging others, and viciously attacking them with scripture (unless of course they happen to be without sin themselves). I have a feeling people just don't like Kirk (and "Christians" like him) because just maybe he's an annoying, hateful jerk. Just my opinion.
LOVE the scrapbook idea. Maybe using multiple terrible kids books to create one good one. Using the words and cutting them out serial killer style too.
Two of my most favorite book related UA-camrs, you’re both awesome keep up the great work! I’m probably gonna go to bed but I will be back later to finish the rest of this video!
Kirk is a proponent of the Prosperity Gospel. That means the best Christians all deserve to be rich.
"I sholuld have to break off pieces of myself to give someone else" dear God it's Rainbow Fish all over again!!!
That love hurts like is setting kids up to excuse or accept abusive behavior.
I use to watch growing pains when I was a kid and the growing pains movie's Kirk has truly lost his mind if he believes he's still a big star when he isn't anymore
Zootopia is an X-Files/Breaking Bad crossover fanfic tho (a good one)
Shouldn’t the tree represent Jesus or God or whatever? If it’s Christian propaganda, they should be advertising what Jesus/God can do to support you. That you may not notice Him, but He’s the foundation to your life and community and will always support you with His branches.
But I’m not Christian, what do I know?
You reading a tiny blurb about Barbara got me a bit curious as to her background, mostly because the part that you read only mentioned the 2 famous children and not her other 2. Turns out one of those 2 had a successful career as a stand in (says so on her IMDB page written by her) and as an adult has been in a couple of Kirk's movies. The other sister is a producer and home schools her 5 children and all 4 siblings are fundies
I thought this blurb on one of Barbara's books was funny considering the industry that they are in
The Amish Farmer's Proposal
About the author (2022)
Barbara Cameron enjoys writing about the spiritual values and simple joys of the Amish. She is the best-selling author of more than 40 fiction and nonfiction books, three nationally televised movies, and the winner of the first Romance Writers of America Golden Heart Award. Her books have been nominated for Carol Awards and the Inspirational Reader's Choice Award from RWA's Faith, Hope, and Love chapter. Barbara resides in Jacksonville, Florida.
As a writer who has a children's book series, I find this so very disturbing. It seems like the books were written by people who have never actually read a children's book. If they ban all our books, then books like these will saturate the market. Scary and disheartening.
27:55 "Sexy nurse deer antelope" - *Zoom and enhance*
I clicked on the video because @readswithrachel is in it. I didn’t have the energy to hear about KC because he sucks. But I really wanted to see how the two of your interacted. It was great. I don’t like the tree is like the rainbow fish (hate that book) and I really forgot how fundie I grew up until I started watching more youtube during covid. Like I remember doing the lords army song in every church and youth group. I’m very glad that my parents jumped ship when I was in high school, and my youngest siblings know less religious trauma.
Here's the not-Christian version of Jesus Loves Me that I taught my kids: Kitty loves me, this I know, for my mommy told me so. Little ones she will sit on. She is cold, but they are warm. Yes, kitty loves me! Yes, kitty loves me! Yes, kitty loves me! My mommy told me so
Gosh, that blurb is bad. It doesn't even sound like a children's book. It sounds like a blurb for a shitty adult (cozy) fantasy novel.
The 'in the lord's army' song unlocked a fucking deep core memory. I absolutely hate it. If you want to talk about indoctrination stuff, Bible quizzing is wild
Kirk Cameron was a teen heartthrob-back when we knew him as fun-loving Mike Seaver, and not uptight Kirk Cameron.
He made his mom write that.
Wow, didn't know that "Tooth and tail" has published fanfiction
If anyone has a fascination with fundamentalist Christianity like I do I’d suggest Fundie Fridays here on UA-cam for a snarky look at the subject. I think Jen and Savvy would be great friends.
Can we put all the Republicans on Freedom Island and just allow them to govern themselves (or not)?
If you want to check out an indie children's book series that actually makes a difference, I highly recommend the Young Change Makers books. My absolute favorite kid in my life, Bryce, is in the fifth book in the series. They're such great books.
I went to a lot of different churches as a child because we moves a lot and that "lord's army" song just unlocked a long forgotten memory
I'm now questioning whether I grew up partially fundie because I know this song and the tune is now stuck in my head. I'm now questioning all the other songs I learned in church growing up... was it all grooming? 😳
watching rachel rise to fame is so weird as someone who literally had to go through my google history manually to remember who she was 2 years ago. one day i woke up and i was randomly like "who was that black haired book lady" like months after watching my first video of hers lol! she handles the attention so well! and she's consistent with her message! love her!
This was a very entertaining thing to listen to on my way home 😂 I couldn’t see the art but I don’t think I needed to to get the gist of it all
Savvy, have you run across Max Lucado in the fundie children's books world? He writes Christian-flavoured inspirational books, and the art's often pretty nice, but they're really obvious, overly sentimental allegories that are extremely repetitive.
Those are not tigers????
I live that Kirk clearly doesn't understand the difference between preaching and teaching, and likely has limited experience with the latter
26:47, 27:00 anyone notice that the evil warmaking animals are black? I’m sure it wasn’t intentional but that kinda makes it worse
ETA: holy balls that “I’m in the Lord’s Army” song! INSTANT FLASHBACKS
“AS YOU GROW YOU WILL KNOW SORROW” is way too hard a sentence to be in a really bad children’s book.
31:44 (ish) Okay, explaining the sides.
Originally, Side A vs Side B was just about gay marriage and/or gay sex. Side A is the pro gay marriage side, while Side B is the anti gay marriage side, noting that this is *just* about your own denomination marrying people, so "I support gay civil marriage, just not gay religious marriage" would still be considered Side B. However, being such a basic distinction, there's also diversity of thought on both sides. For example, a lot of people on Side A might still oppose premarital sex, and just also allow gay couples to marry (and have sex), while a lot of others don't care about that. (According to one r/Christianity straw poll, Side A is split about 40% anti premarital gay sex, 60% pro premarital gay sex) Meanwhile, the differences within Side B are more about whether it's sinful to even have a gay crush on someone, so unlike with Side A, you'll occasionally see additional sides for those.
Side X is probably the most recognized of them. It originally refers to the whole ex-gay movement, but also gets used slightly more broadly for it being sinful to even be attracted to someone. So in the three-way A/B/X split, Side B proper says it isn't sinful to have a crush on someone, only to ask them out, while Side X says it is. But finally, and as the weirdest side to explain, there's Side Y. See... conservatives frequently do this thing where they use the same words as liberals, but with different meanings. So for example, when a lot of conservatives hear or say "homosexuality", they're thinking of gay sex specifically, not the mere concept of being attracted to someone, which starts to explain things like why they're opposed to kids identifying as gay or learning about "homosexuality". To their ears, that sounds like kids having or learning about gay sex. But because of this, and speaking from experience, a *lot* of Side X people, if actually pushed on it, will admit to holding a position closer to Side B, just with different words. And so while there isn't a strict definition of Side Y, like there is for the other three, I'd generally use it for the "Don't call yourself gay" crowd.
So to summarize and illustrate, imagine there's some guy Adam who realizes he has a crush on his friend Steve and asks him out. The two start dating, Adam and Steve start identifying as gay, they have sex, and, eventually, they get married. What does each side think is a sin in all that, if anything? Side A would say that next to none of that was, but they'd be split on the sex - not because it was gay, but because they weren't married. Side B would say that asking him out, having sex, and getting married were, but not the crush or identifying as gay. Side Y would say the crush was the only bit of that that wasn't sinful. And Side X would say that everything, including the crush, was sinful
I was raised Catholic in a heavily fundamentalist Protestant area (yay for the 1-2 punch of bullying over my queerness and religion!), and while I’d hear bits and pieces about fundamentalist stuff, I never would have imagined the whole weird godly military thing.
I do have a friend who is a “B side” queer, and it’s always heartbreaking to hear them talk about that stuff because it’s so plainly obvious how much it hurts them
Great review ladies. I grew up in the IFB as a minister's son. We were taught to read a book called the Two Babylons that literally taught that the Catholic Church was created by Satan and is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation.
30:50 If I'm not mistaken:
Side X is what Rachel called "Side A"
Side B is the same as what Rachel called Side B
and Side A is pro gay
Pig The Pug - best children's book ever! Pig's misadventures are worthy of an old testament story!
Kirk Cameron doesn't get children or Christ and I hope he doesn't keep making books. I remember before he become super Christian and he was a nice person afterwards he was judgmental and rude.
Am I the only one who hears the word “saga” applied to a series of far-right children’s books and senses some rather… erm… Volkish undertones?
I sang that Fundi song every week at my Christian Private School :)
Dude, wait til Savy learns about Vacation Bible School 😶
A lot of people dont actually know what socialism is. A lot of Christian's say that socialism is bad because they kinda use that as another word for communism. And in America you tend to not learn what communism is exactly, just that its bad.
Also I agree on the hair on furries thing but a lot of furries add hair on their fursonas and you guys are calling them out lmao
Quite a few of the books where I live (uk) has little games at the end that tie in with the stories. Usually little pictures of the illustrations, so the kids can retell the story back to you so you know they listened. Also seen like a little quiz or things to do that are related to the book (ie bear hunt why don't you take your Teddy and go on a bear hunt, type thing). It's really good, it's mostly in my first type books that kids are supposed to read eith their parents.
You should totally add something like it.