It would be cool to see individual EGT’s on both setups. Seems like a fuel distribution issue to me. Did they change intakes as well when they went from carb to EFI?
Where were the cfm between carb and efi cause I see a lot of these video where ppl compare efi which usually 1000cfm to a 750cfm carb on a sbc😂 I'm just saying
The carb just wasn’t set up/working correctly but nobody was able to get it right. Multiple carbs multiple people setting it up etc. not sure why it was being so difficult some of the best in the business had their hands on it.
If the reversion suddenly vanished at a certain RPM, that could be a problem. Heavy reversion can double- or triple- pass air through the carbs' venturis, and make it super-rich, and that is one of the problems EFI definitely solves. It doesn't CARE if you are reversing airflow very heavily below a certain RPM. It's still going to give you the fuel you need, not excess fuel. Carbs have the one weakness: they meter fuel to a certain amount of airflow, regardless of which direction that airflow is going, or how many times it has passed by that venturi. With EFI, you can have so much overlap and duration that the same air can travel through the intake port as many times as it wants, but it will not result in tricking the motor into putting more fuel into it. For that reason, EFI can have a far wider useful powerband than carburetors, which can be fooled by reversion at lower RPM's than are the engine's focused power band. (long duration and high overlap work GREAT at high RPM's and cause carburetors to fall flat on their faces to too-low RPM.) No wonder Pro Stock went to EFI. It would be nice to see the actual power graphs of Pro Stockers pre- and post-EFI. I assume they would use way more cam with EFI or be able to get lower RPM power with the same cam timing.
I have been waiting for a test just like this so I/we could see how power was affected, the smoothness of the power, and just an overall review comparing the two. Others have always just posted peak numbers. Joe showed us power across the curve. I know the carb was having issues down low and had been to the best carb tuners and still, the same problem persisted. With the EFI it was able to handle being tuned from the bottom to the top. This was nice to see the power output but also shows what EFI can do no matter what the problem may be. Awesome video/information Joe!!!
It's understandable there would be a huge difference in the low-to-mid rain but I bet even with the carb situation cleared up there would still be a substantial gain in the low-to-mid. Super cool thanks for sharing Joe
Was the injector placement normal like at the head side of the runner kind of as close the intake valve as you can get or was it up the runner a bit? I don’t hate it love carbs. But I do enjoy efi and learning about the two methods of fuel delivery. Thanks joe. Super cool. I prefer turbos bc I came from rotary and small displacement stuff but now use a small block single deal but I like all of it. Nitrous combos sounds so sick. Especially big cube 5 inch or 5.300 bore space giant engines screaming. Love the flames. Regardless I am glad they got it straightened out.
It's a cool comparison I belive benefits of efi and tuning are there but the carb tuned correctly is still in the game.carb more responsive then let's throw In mechanically injection even more crisp
I swapped my car from a carb to the throttle body injected terminator x with 8 injectors and it made a big difference in the car. The carb was good at idle, great wide open, but sucked everywhere in between. I went through 3 sets of plugs in one summer with the carb, around 500 miles. With the EFI I can have the same set in all year N/A. Not to mention I can start it and get back out of it while it warms up instead of sitting in the car holding the pedal so it will stay running.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can dyno my new 632 BBC with a carb and then switch it to the efi and test it. It will be on an engine dyno but I think it would be cool to compare as well
Reversion at low RPM will trick the carbs into thinking there is more airflow, so expect to run rich at lower RPM. However, that may mean you can go the aviation piston engine route and just add gobs of timing, and I mean GOBS of additional timing, when you know it's running rich, and take full advantage of the low-RPM fuel-swilling issue. Most treat rich mixtures as a problem. If said rich mixture is predictable in where it appears, you can add otherwise-unheard-of levels of timing to take advantage of the situation. The key is to monitor each cylinder's EGT and A/F ratio. Your leanest cylinder will be the limiting factor. However, if you really want to do a real man's job of it, then treat each cylinder like its own individual motor and tailor the spark timing on a per-cylinder, per-RPM, per-throttle-opening and per-A/F ratio basis. Think of it like Mercedes, who have had a history of entering then utterly dominating various motorsports. Leave no stone unturned and you will not only win, but TROUNCE the competition. Be lazy and apply general rules to specific problems based on assumptions, and you will LOSE.
@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest It’s a Street Strip car Driven on street 95% of time taking to the track 5% I’d like to keep my current intake which is a Edelbrock Rpm AirGap it is also a stick shift car.
I'll be sending this video to my father in law that will only use a carb and msd for his nitrous promod... I'm a efi guy myself lol To be fair his works damn good though
Yeah, I have to admit, it's pretty weird to be pushing those numbers and still only have one carb's worth of air ramming into the engine. Even more weird to be able to change from carb to EFI without changing out the intake manifold. Unless it's a TBI model like a Holley Sniper or somethin'.
I refuse to accept the idea that a carburetor wouldn't work like they wanted. The amount of adjustments and functions of a carburetor make them extremely tunable. Dare I say, just as tunable as EFI. Just not as quickly as using key strokes when you're pulling metering blocks to make adjustments. The engine is essentially an air pump. Adjust accordingly to get the fuel into it!
A properly tuned carburetor will always make more peak power than a fuel injection system on a non-nitro engine, I have dynoed thousands of engines at my shop. Sounds like that team needs to get a better carb tuner if that engine is running on gasoline.
@@CamaroMan79 maybe if you just swap carburetor to some carburator looking crap like Sniper. But if you built the engine to be EFI then it will make more power.
![K&N Finally Has A Competitor and its Just $7 [Dyno Tested]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RdbFAG5xbyY/mqdefault.jpg)
For the nostalgia and simplicity, I still appreciate what a carburetor can do.
It would be cool to see individual EGT’s on both setups. Seems like a fuel distribution issue to me. Did they change intakes as well when they went from carb to EFI?
Thumbnail is badass. 🍻🔥
Id love to see more info on why the low speed fueling was so poor on the carb setup? Wrong runner lengths? Plenum size?
Where were the cfm between carb and efi cause I see a lot of these video where ppl compare efi which usually 1000cfm to a 750cfm carb on a sbc😂 I'm just saying
what a wonderful A to B on what I expect to see.
Thats interesting because when inject nitrous you should inject extra fuel to balance the ratio. Was that the issue? Running a dry nitrous system?
The carb just wasn’t set up/working correctly but nobody was able to get it right. Multiple carbs multiple people setting it up etc. not sure why it was being so difficult some of the best in the business had their hands on it.
If the reversion suddenly vanished at a certain RPM, that could be a problem. Heavy reversion can double- or triple- pass air through the carbs' venturis, and make it super-rich, and that is one of the problems EFI definitely solves. It doesn't CARE if you are reversing airflow very heavily below a certain RPM. It's still going to give you the fuel you need, not excess fuel.
Carbs have the one weakness: they meter fuel to a certain amount of airflow, regardless of which direction that airflow is going, or how many times it has passed by that venturi.
With EFI, you can have so much overlap and duration that the same air can travel through the intake port as many times as it wants, but it will not result in tricking the motor into putting more fuel into it.
For that reason, EFI can have a far wider useful powerband than carburetors, which can be fooled by reversion at lower RPM's than are the engine's focused power band. (long duration and high overlap work GREAT at high RPM's and cause carburetors to fall flat on their faces to too-low RPM.)
No wonder Pro Stock went to EFI. It would be nice to see the actual power graphs of Pro Stockers pre- and post-EFI. I assume they would use way more cam with EFI or be able to get lower RPM power with the same cam timing.
I have been waiting for a test just like this so I/we could see how power was affected, the smoothness of the power, and just an overall review comparing the two. Others have always just posted peak numbers. Joe showed us power across the curve. I know the carb was having issues down low and had been to the best carb tuners and still, the same problem persisted. With the EFI it was able to handle being tuned from the bottom to the top. This was nice to see the power output but also shows what EFI can do no matter what the problem may be. Awesome video/information Joe!!!
It's understandable there would be a huge difference in the low-to-mid rain but I bet even with the carb situation cleared up there would still be a substantial gain in the low-to-mid.
Super cool thanks for sharing Joe
Very cool back to back comparison
That thumbnail is Fire! 🔥 Need a poster of that in my shop!
This is most definitely awesome UA-cam content, Boss👍🏼
Was the injector placement normal like at the head side of the runner kind of as close the intake valve as you can get or was it up the runner a bit? I don’t hate it love carbs. But I do enjoy efi and learning about the two methods of fuel delivery. Thanks joe. Super cool. I prefer turbos bc I came from rotary and small displacement stuff but now use a small block single deal but I like all of it. Nitrous combos sounds so sick. Especially big cube 5 inch or 5.300 bore space giant engines screaming. Love the flames. Regardless I am glad they got it straightened out.
It's a cool comparison I belive benefits of efi and tuning are there but the carb tuned correctly is still in the game.carb more responsive then let's throw In mechanically injection even more crisp
I swapped my car from a carb to the throttle body injected terminator x with 8 injectors and it made a big difference in the car. The carb was good at idle, great wide open, but sucked everywhere in between. I went through 3 sets of plugs in one summer with the carb, around 500 miles. With the EFI I can have the same set in all year N/A. Not to mention I can start it and get back out of it while it warms up instead of sitting in the car holding the pedal so it will stay running.
Your carburetor definitely needed a rebuild.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can dyno my new 632 BBC with a carb and then switch it to the efi and test it. It will be on an engine dyno but I think it would be cool to compare as well
Reversion at low RPM will trick the carbs into thinking there is more airflow, so expect to run rich at lower RPM.
However, that may mean you can go the aviation piston engine route and just add gobs of timing, and I mean GOBS of additional timing, when you know it's running rich, and take full advantage of the low-RPM fuel-swilling issue.
Most treat rich mixtures as a problem. If said rich mixture is predictable in where it appears, you can add otherwise-unheard-of levels of timing to take advantage of the situation.
The key is to monitor each cylinder's EGT and A/F ratio. Your leanest cylinder will be the limiting factor.
However, if you really want to do a real man's job of it, then treat each cylinder like its own individual motor and tailor the spark timing on a per-cylinder, per-RPM, per-throttle-opening and per-A/F ratio basis.
Think of it like Mercedes, who have had a history of entering then utterly dominating various motorsports. Leave no stone unturned and you will not only win, but TROUNCE the competition.
Be lazy and apply general rules to specific problems based on assumptions, and you will LOSE.
I’m currently running a carburetor on a 427 BBC I’m looking at Holley efi which one would you suggest Holley Terminator or Holley Sniper??
All depends on what you are using it for. I’m a fan of converting to port injection and running an hp or dominator ecu
@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest It’s a Street Strip car Driven on street 95% of time taking to the track 5% I’d like to keep my current intake which is a Edelbrock Rpm AirGap it is also a stick shift car.
Did they use a 4bl throttle body like an accufab or Wilson?
I'll be sending this video to my father in law that will only use a carb and msd for his nitrous promod... I'm a efi guy myself lol
To be fair his works damn good though
Looks like something is choking the carb setup at low rpm. Looks like fueling issues at lower rpm. I could probably be way off.
Cool sounds like a problem with someone who didn't know what a carb needs.
One carb on promod?
Yeah, I have to admit, it's pretty weird to be pushing those numbers and still only have one carb's worth of air ramming into the engine. Even more weird to be able to change from carb to EFI without changing out the intake manifold.
Unless it's a TBI model like a Holley Sniper or somethin'.
BARB WOULD NEVER LET ME REMOVE MY BRAWLER850 FOR DATENIGHT AT THE WESTERNSIZZLEWR
If you run a carb at this time your just a caveman
*you're
caveMEN run carbs. caveSISSIES run efi.
so
I refuse to accept the idea that a carburetor wouldn't work like they wanted.
The amount of adjustments and functions of a carburetor make them extremely tunable.
Dare I say, just as tunable as EFI. Just not as quickly as using key strokes when you're pulling metering blocks to make adjustments.
The engine is essentially an air pump. Adjust accordingly to get the fuel into it!
that was cool
A properly tuned carburetor will always make more peak power than a fuel injection system on a non-nitro engine, I have dynoed thousands of engines at my shop. Sounds like that team needs to get a better carb tuner if that engine is running on gasoline.
No it does not.
@@V8Lenny Bet? You are welcome to come to my engine shop in Rockdale, IL
@@CamaroMan79 maybe if you just swap carburetor to some carburator looking crap like Sniper. But if you built the engine to be EFI then it will make more power.