What did Adam's Fall Cause? Pain in Childbirth? Death? Disease? ft. Iain Provan
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Iain William Provan is a British Old Testament scholar, now living in Canada. He was Marshall Sheppard Professor of Biblical Studies at Regent College in Vancouver from 1997 until his retirement on December 31, 2022. He also wrote, Discovering Genesis: Content, Interpretation, Reception (2015).
Seriously Dangerous Religion: What the Old Testament Really Says and Why It Matters: www.amazon.com/Seriously-Dang...
Link to small Genesis commentary: www.amazon.com/Discovering-Ge...
Dr. Provan's website: iainprovan.ca/
Cuckoos in Our Nest: Truth and Lies about Being Human: www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Our-Ne...
Yeah, people forget how common it was for women and/or infant to die from childbirth just a few generations back
Why do non-human animals suffer birth pangs? Did they get punished too?
All of physical creation was punished, according to the story. Only whack theologians that put death before the fall.
How could it be that Adam's rule in Genesis 3:16 is an oppressive rule, if Paul references this same passage as justification for male headship in church? Is Paul perpetuating oppressive language?
@@jjoesmith331 Thanks for your input. I’m not familiar with any instance where Paul cites Genesis 3:16. Where do you think Paul does this?
Fun fact: it is never stated where the tree of knowledge is located so they would have had no idea whether they were eating it's fruit or not. The bible only says the tree of life (different tree) is in the center. It also states that you would die when you eat from it, which obviously did not happen. On top of that: telling someone something is evil whilst not allowing them to know the difference between good and evil is.... well, evil.
Is the center not a location now. lol? Dude contradicted himself in in his own post.
The knowledge there is not knowing about, it's like, knowing depression is experiencing depression.
@@Dizerner The tree of life and the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) are two different trees.
Oh boy I sure am having a good time watching this video but I wonder what John Thomas thinks
@@kaylorschaff2791 hahaha best comment goes to…
Who made who ? Is God good as the bad 'he' designed?
@@johnthomas753 I’m not understanding the question
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou
Do you believe the biblical God is thee "God's ?
Oh
@@kaylorschaff2791 agreed
Knowledge. The original sin.
Think about that. What kind of god would punish for knowledge?
@@johnthomas753 I don’t think God punished the man and woman. Even if I did, I don’t think he punished them for gaining knowledge like we might think of today. Here’s a good video on the topic if interested: ua-cam.com/video/_2WxcjvAkFc/v-deo.htmlsi=U869z1E3I6iNipXA
I heard a commentary saying the punishment wasn’t for eating the Fruit. If it was God would have punished them after they ate the Fruit, but God didn’t.
God punished Adam after Adam blamed God for giving him a wife, and God punished Eve after she blamed someone else for her own actions.
Reread it, see what you think.
There are also other commentaries that can open your mind to see the story in other ways.
@jsbrads1 Eve did not blame the serpent. She explained but did not blame she took responsibility, and that's the difference. Adam blamed her AND God in his response.
@@__reneemaof2 Eve ate and then fed Adam, she left out that part, but thank you for sharing your perspective, it opened up my perspective on the story. You are right, there definitely is a difference between Eve and Adam.
Compared to the Fable, the books about Harry Potter are much more fun, interesting and realistic, and have much better moral values.
@@Bob94390 seems pretty subjective but okay
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Most people find the books about Harry Potter to be much more fun, interesting and realistic than the Fable, and also have much better moral values.
People who start reading a book about Harry Potter, usually read all of it. People who start reading the Fable, usually do NOT read the whole mess.
We can debunk the bibles as much as we want but it won't matter. (although it is very entertaining to do) . Atheists need no convincing and believers will see it as an attack and dig in even further. Maybe it would be a better approach to focus on why we have/had religion in the first place and how mono-theism was invented as a means to influence (and control) the people. Polytheism makes sense as a way to understand things in the absence of (scientific) explanations. Monotheism simplifies everything and as a result makes people stop thinking too hard. "Don't worry, about it. The answer is always god" It discourages free thinking and makes it easier to 'herd' (pun intended) the people.
It's clear enough. You cannot rebel against your own Creator, the source of all life, without something bad happening... and something bad happened.
So which of the "creators" do you subjugate yourself to? There are huge numbers of different "creators" in various religions.
Do you believe in the Christian nonsense? Where "God" creates plants and animals BEFORE humans in chapter 1 in the Fable, and then one more time in chapter 2, this time AFTER humans? Do you believe that the Earth is standing on pillars and has four corners? Do you believe that rain is caused by "gates" opening in "heaven"? Do you believe that stars are so small that several of them can "fall down" on Earth at the same time?
@@Bob94390 Bob, it's nap time. Time to take your meds.
We all just think it's weird that you believe this silly creation story when the god that you believe supposedly created the universe seems to understand absolutely nothing about it. You should learn about the process that created your Bible in what stores came before it's weird that the creation of the world stories came so long after so many other stories and things people did you think that would be the first story but it's not it was invented way after societies were jamming out. @@axderka
@@Bob94390 The point of these is metaphors. It's not that hard to figure that out.
@@Bob94390 You don't seem to know when you are reading a plain historical description, and when you are reading allegory/poetry that is describing real historical events.
Another Bible scholar who is not going to look outside the Bias and into the Classics. Please consider getting a Classics scholar to give a unbiased perspective on the fairytales of the Bible :)
@@johnthomas753 a classicist is not an expert in the Bible and therefore wouldn’t make sense to have on to talk about the Bible. They don’t even use the same language. That would be like asking a historian in the American Indians to talk about what was going on in Europe in the 17th century.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou
That's BS. Do you know what century the Old Testament was written in and what language the Hebrew's copied their fairy tails from?? That's right, the Ancient Greek.
You,'ll figure it out eventually. Truth doesn't fear investigation.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou
A Classic goes beyond biblical scholars. You're pissed off now, but if you keep searching for intellectual honesty you soon figure it out.
@@johnthomas753what does “goes beyond biblical scholars” mean?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Classics go beyond Bible scholars by looking at other sources that confirm or codordict what the Bible says is accurate.
It all comes down to Ancient Greek. Ask a biblical scholar how much Ancient Greek they know.
Ancient Greek is where the Hebrews copied all there fairytale stories. Ask a Bible scholar if they know of any original Hebrew Authors outside of the Bible. There is none because the Hebrews copied everything from ancient Greek stories.
This is a short two chapter story that these folks try to destroy, so they can slide in their empty, ominous, interpretations. Just read the story: the only "evil" in the story was God. God was evil. He lied and punished others for his ignorance.
@@TheMesomovie why do you think God punished them?
@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Are you kidding? He threw them put of Eden after telling not to eat a particular fruit that made them into Gods. God's was jealous and prideful. Too bad they didn't lose this ridiculous story.