I had the totemism and clans coming together for rites of passage theory. On the central pillars the presence of foxes never dawned upon me. I have seen the images, but that detail I missed. And I love foxes! I do think that the ancestor (skull) cult was a big part of it too. So a funerary cult. Especially with the vulture symbolism too. So there is for sure a death and underworld thing going on. With also as I know evidence of feasting there and other locations, and chemical analysis of alcohol, I suspect that there were both funerary and fertility rites happening at Gobekli Tepe. Probably at different times of the year. Maybe spring versus winter. With rites of passage also playing a big role. The central pillars I always took for a deity couple or twins of sort. Maybe hieros gamos. Which could tie well into the fertility aspect of it as well, next to the rite of passage.
The fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis is a story about new religious ideas about self-awareness. The Bible says agriculture resulted from eating the fruit (i.e., becoming self-aware). I think that these are memories of an actual religious movement that preceded agriculture and that the snakes at Gobekli Tepe are Lucifer, the light-bringer. If myths about sea-level rise can last 10,000 years, why wouldn't we retain cultural memories of the transition to agriculture. BTW, these are not my ideas. See Jacques Cauvin, an esteemed archeologist who wrote The Birth of the Gods and the Origins of Agriculture.
@@andrewcutler4599 I suspect that our ancIent ancestors were aware of the dangers of rapId technologIcal advance, and the symbols and Iconography represent a contemporary dIscussIon. GenesIs contInues thIs dIscussIon.
Only 20 minutes in, and this is already one of the most enlightening perspectives on the sites that I've ever heard from anyone! Thank you for your amazing insight Jon!
Jon, it’s sincerely refreshing the way you speculate with caution and with measured reason to leave things open. You are right, we may never know. For many to jump to solid conclusions is very irresponsible. Thank you for always staying true to yourself and for not following popular hype around ancient sites like this ❤
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Growing up in my small farming community in Michigan there was a story that you had to take a bite of the heart after hunting a deer. That was the 1980s. There still is quite a bit of traditional to hunting there. Gas stations build wood structures to hold bucks to show off the number of antlers. Which ever hunter has the the biggest deer/ most antlers wins money. It's a fascinating study of ancient practices in the modern world.
@@heathergallimore1371 my family has a tradition where when we kill a deer for the first time we mark our forehead with a bit of its blood, line between the eyes. It sounds gross but in the moment you feel a deep connection with your family and the deer.
Thanks for the exclusive look into all this newly revealed ancient iconography. We see more and more signs of starting civilization at 9000-10,000 BCE the more we look. There is so much here I hope we can get further answers to in the future.
When I saw the images of the dead animals and their bent in legs, I was reminded of a hunting display. As a lad, hunters would formally “lay out” their day’s kills ritualistically. I wonder if this ritual could be related, but with more symbolic significance.
At 10:15 you were right 1st time. The picture on the right is part of a porthole. These were set into the rooves. As at Catalhuyuk entry to the homes and communal areas was via the roof. I think it was last year (2023) that careful excavation of the debris showed voids left by rotted roof beams. As there were slots on top of the T pillars that suggested they supported a roof this is confirmation. Along with the portholes of course.
Many of the images that included bent knees, combined with the angle of the animal, gave me the impression of movement. I also lean into the idea that these images are tied to stories that we'll never know. I continue to hold space for the possibility of astrological alignment, but I'm curious, not adamant.
What a breath of fresh air your lectures are, Sir. Your presentation is a delight. Your visual aids are informative and relevant, not just "dressing". Your expanse of knowledge of - what do I call it? - the thousands of years long phenomenon of Homo sapien sapien psychology and culture? - is breathtaking. Your commitment to academic integrity is admirable and honourable. Thank you. I am about to become a paying customer.
Best Gobekli Tepi video by far. So much more informative about what is at the actual site than other videos I've seen. Other videos focus on the age and dating of the ruins which is cool too but I love your description of all the carvings and artifacts.
Regarding bull castration. Practiced even today in Spain. The testicles of the slain bull is bought buy top restaurants. Also, testicles of the sacrificed bull were offered to Artemis of Ephesus. The multiple oval structures were misinterpreted as breasts. But the structures are attached to the tunic rather than the body.
Hey Crec, I like this format! I really enjoy the stories you tell, but this blend into the more popular archeology is cool. I want to hear your cohesive opinion on ancient archeology sites in relation to much, much older myths which inform the creation of these places! Slainthe
To me, listening to your lectures is the verbal equivalent of reading the Golden Bough for the first time, absolutely gripping and magical and wise stuff in your voice. Thank you. * At the risk of sounding like a wingnut, Jon, have you seen the videos of the bottom halves of the Moai on Easter Island that are carved with symbols, animals, belts and even, in some cases, the hands so reminiscent of Gobekli Tepe? If I had to make an informed guess I would say the iconography and pillars and reliefs at Gobekli Tepe comprise a kind of horizontal totem-pole with tribal animal totems and other symbols representing hunting magic, coming-of-age magic, sex magic, nature magic, death magic, etc., a kind of stations-of-the-cross for neolothic hunter-gatherers making the transition to a farming, herding society. Just tossing around ideas.
Absolutely love this stuff! Thank you for sharing your images and findings and thoughts about these pieces of ancient history. It's incredible to try to reach your mind back to those early, early days when people just like me lived in such a different world altogether. It might have been the same Earth, but the world you live in is much more than the rock you walk on ❤
Great video! Thank you Jon for your efforts and thoughts. I definitely agree that pillar 43 does not depict handbags - the key indicator of typical handbag iconography, funnily, is the hand that holds the handbag (as opposed to a disembodied free floating bag x3). I also agree that hunting was central to these folk and would take it a step further to suggest that G.Tepe was a hunting school - for instance, pillar 1, to my untrained and unlearned eye, looks more like a net being cast on the ram. Following from this, I find your view on pillar 43 depicting possible game that are near the dwellings compelling - perhaps the rest of the pillar 43 has a temporal element - i.e. when (which seasons) would particular animals be readily found.
i agree re pillar 1 showing a net to capture/drive the sheep Ive heard a theory that the 'handbags' are sunsets/sunrises at 3 of the key seasons equinox/solstice and the animals depicted coincide with the 'ruling' constellation. We do know that there's evidence of same animal-constellation associations 8k yrs old and many suspect some of the 40k yr old paintings depict same animal associated with constellation (dots on the shoulder of a bull align with where tauroid meteor stream seems to originate) Im borrowing from jean M auel here, but in her 'earth's children' paleo based fantasy series, most of the people recognise 3 seasons spring was longer back then, summer and early autumn were merged and winter was winter. The 'shamanic' people were imparting knowledge to adepts in the book and said there were 2 'hidden' seasons making 5 in total and went into other shamanic teachings and numeral symbolism. I know that the herbalism and archaology n her research were 100% on point, she became honorary archaeologist from the research she did into the series. This 3 seasons idea might be why theres only 3 sunset/sunrise handbags. But also, as i think this was a place of teaching and celebration, im thinking spring, summer and autumn are best times to hunt. animals migrate south or diff terrain or hibernate in winter -chamois come down from mountains, sure, so would be easier, but mammoths went north, animals were skinnier, less of the essential fat humans needed to survive and excuse my brainfog, but i believe that humans didnt hunt in winter anywhere where there's 4 seasons. Im not making a good argument, but hopefully you can fill the gaps of my poor communication slips I dont think the pillars or encirclements their positions have anything to do with astronomy/astrology, but i do wonder about some of the symbolism, like the bags
I think 'teeth bared' = death grin. Also...those nine snakes look more like a net to me. I know they weren't true pastoralists, but likely herding had gone on a long time before fences...but anyone who's tried to catch a sheep that don't want to be caught knows how useful a net would be.
I agree it can look like a net, but there are snake like heads at the bottom of their bodies, plus why would they draw a net on a pillar? I think, for now, that they are probably snakes.
Many thanks! Wouldn't it be lovely to have a public full list (with images) of all reliefs and sculptures etc. and their locations, including the "totem poles" and the protomes that is constantly being updated? I guess any interpretation of the images/reliefs will remain very precarious, considering that with many (most?) of the settlements/structures/images/reliefs we do not know if they where contemporaneous or not, or in what stages of repair/revision/reconstruction they might have been contemporaneous. There might be several hundred years between the initial erection of a decorated pillar and its reworking or reuse -- and might it not diminish or erase meaning of an image/relief if it ended up facing into the wall upon reuse?
Concentrating cereal crops would be a mouse magnet. The mice would be a snake, and fox magnet. Maybe the snakes and foxes were being depicted so frequently because they were considered honourable and powerful allies because they were eating the mice, and/or they were depicted so frequently because it was believed it would attract more of them to the area to eat the mice. Poor mice.
foxes and snakes eat each other and anything else. .really not honourable etc ,the opposite .Foxes go to a den to breed and roam around otherwise ,nocturnal .There would be many things to eat ,I think only the modern store bought snake particularly eats mice !So don't know why they liked them ,but those fox tails look cosy.I think the big snake has little snakes in it,like a human male.ahem.
That's all really fascinating... the place is amazing. A couple thoughts... 1). The "snakes" on the first pillar. When the picture came up, before I was paying attention to what you were saying about it, my literal first thought was, "Oh cool... they hunted with [weighted] nets!". Even after hearing snakes - which I don't see at all - it still looks like a net being thrown over the animal below. 2). I think you are right about most of the animals being dead. Which is probably just what a bunch of H&Gs like in an animal. (Live critters ain't dinner.) 3). I'm not sure about the auroch with his tongue out being dead. Maybe he's pining for the fields. 😉
Finally I've got time to watch this video. It really frustrating that we can only guessing and may never know the true meaning of the ancient archeological sites. As you cited that "fame never fades", I kinda agree to disagree because 2 thousands years is not a short time span. More likely that I doubt that, at least that the people -2000 years after the hero lived- still remember about the true story. We here today have a vague knowledge about what was really happened a century ago, save that our grandparents had not possessed any technology that we have now. Furthermore, the people from Gobleki Tepe era to PIE speakers, I believe, had shorter life span due to the quality of nutrition and medicine they had at that time. A century, for us, is about 4 generations, but it might be more for people from prehistoric era. I wish I can peek into ancient times to know what was really happen 😅
Thanks for going inplace and sharing this firsthand experiences with us. For sure, more digestion will come, looking forward to it- as one comment mentioned -please let us know what was known about the migrations at this time and what your myth database would support for this symbols and with what confidence level. The idea with transition from ancestors to gods (civilization) is a likely trace. But many, many animals present here, extremely important somehow-may be animistic representations of groups, ancestors, forces? Your deep experience with native cultures will give further insights-what a.e in comparison to ice age siberians? What role had the fox there or the wolf? Yep, more will come! 😃👍
- I miss yet the geobiological input- we are after the younger drias period- wasn't that a warming period, delivering rich growth of animal herds and plants in this area? That would explain, why hunter/gatherers finally can build longer term stable settlements, no? Then it would have been a period of growth and fertility. - The twins: Yes that's an interesting thesis to prolong the twins from indoeuropean times to Göpekli Tepe..however no double human imprints have been found on the double pilars, nor double animals, or similar animals as fox/wulf, no? I am fascinated by this double pilars. Did you see at 22:30 all this double pilars point basically the same direction ? the long X-axis is not necessary for static reasons, even if you have just short branches available for the roof- an engineer would just use 2 separate, rough pilars to overcome short branches- but here, with high efforts, 2 plates have been flattened- with the tools of the time, imagine. Just to get them flat and parallel. This was very important to them, and always the same gap width and direction so it had a meaning to them. May be this was the direction of their origin, or a star prominent at that time, or where they wanted to move to ? It also is so abstract for a culture that otherwise is very concrete, animistic, and has few abstract symbols. May be it was a further development of the stone age pattern for tombs- 2 sideplates and a roof plate- but the roof plate has gone here, why ? Did they want to show the stars, was it an open roof ? So many ideas are possible at this stage, looking forward to further clues. Very inspiring.
Can't find it now, but I've seen another vid that made a compelling argument that these are not snakes but eels - or at least that some of them are eels. I just have to remember on what channel. And if they are eels then these creatures shown in a channel would mean they are swimming in a river.
I said the same thing earlier. It's just a theory of course. And eels don't have heads like that. If a snake has a head shaped like an arrowhead, it's likely poisonous. But whatever these are, they are not shown with teeth, so it's hard to say. I think when eels come out to go up river, it would be a strange sight to anyone, but especially during a time when they were hunting animals to live.
Yes, they could be, although the distinctive head, makes me feel they are more representative of a snake. Eel heads tend to be the same width as the body,
Amazing, lots to see, I loved looking at the pictures and listening to your describtion and explanation, I didn't even realise it was one hour long :) 24:19 if they are snakes, on the botom there is a two headed snake :D - head 3 and 4 share the same ''body'' or one head is extra... (I've seen this image a million times and I just notices it now) 43:43 could it be we are looking at a circle of life here? Old animal dies, young one is born - life goes on. Or the big one died protecting the young one, again life goes on. also the crudeness of this carving (and some other one later) could be like you said, the skill of carving was lost, or it is older. Or it could also be done in a hurry after some event or maybe it is just a scetched outline and the carving was never finished... About the bend legs, I see they are bend but do we also see somewhere animals with straight legs? I think some of the birds have straight legs, what about the others. They could be all dead or maybe that is just how they carved legs?
These are all possibilities, we may never know for sure, it is fascinating to actaully see all these symbols, this art, and ponder what was going on 10,000 years ago.
When i took my first doe my dad made me take a bite of her heart. Weird i know but i remember the warmth of the blood, how proud i was i really did feel like a man. My old man made it very clear that it was about respect for the animal that it was providing for us. Strange to think about from a modern view point but its good to feel some kind of connection to the past and all of humanity. Even from such a strange and somewhat barbaric tradition
Some of the animals, in particular the fox and the snake, could be a symbol of lineage or other type of social group. Most of the remaining animals could be food animals- the critters that were hunted and eaten.
So, perhaps our ancestors carved images of their hunting victories to commemorate those moments, while in later times, men mounted heads to walls. For instance, wealthy, Victorian era men certainly saw themselves as conquerors of the wild world. The hunt unites men across thousands of years, even in eras where survival didn't depend upon it.
I haven't been able to shake the feeling that a lot of the carvings at gobekli were done during a time of incredible hardship, or more precisely, famine. The amount of energy put into the site almost speaks of a certain desperation, and the disproportionate amount of imagery depicting dead animals, rib cages, hands on stomachs...clearly speaks to me of a very rough period. However, the representations of the phallus would also indicate an urgent need to keep procreating, especially in the face of mass starvation. Whatever the case, i dont think it was all sunshine and lollipops for the humans at this time.
Yes, I always thought the images of people here were more on the thin side, deliberately so. Not because it was a preference, but maybe because of hard times.
@@toxic-o1u🤔 Agreed... I think I was trying to imply that since there's nothing but starved dead animals around, there's nothing actually left to hunt. 😳😵💀Hence, the natural course of action then is to embark on a paradigm shifting arts and crafts spree, with a smattering of cryptic animal sculptures,🦤🦂🐍and just enough phallic symbolism thrown in to mess with future archeologists and ancient👽🍆 alien podcasts. But that aside, if we're sticking strictly to reality in the comments without any wiggle room for absurdist exaggeration, then yes, I completely agree with you. ✌️🥸
Thank you for this in-depth pillar presentation! - I think "ancestors" is more appropriate than "gods". Twins are also a matter of (mythological) significance in central Africa
This is fine, the video is about sites in Turkey, and the Turkish love their coffee. I did try some, but despite its unforgettable taste remain a tea drinker.
Excellent as usual. My question: there is a preponderance of male / phallic imagery and hunter / prey celebration imagery, also potentially masculine (but not necessarily). There are some female images but seemingly fewer. Does this indicate that the Tepe culture was patriarchal, following the model that the transition from hunter gathering to agriculture / sedentary lifestyles tended to privilege male strength by enabling control of an economic surplus? Or is there more “female” “meaning” within these monuments? I am not sure: perhaps the very existence of and shape of the monuments represented female / reproductive power, with male hunter initiation taking place within that matrifocal context? I suspect the picture is quite complex. I would be very interested in your thoughts and I would like to see a video from you on how the evolution of mythology might represent the emergence of patriarchy.
I was thinking of the gangs of men moving around ,women elsewhere.(Except that one poor female,) .This matches the foxes behaviour who roam and return to a den to breed..@@Crecganford
i think the pits/holes on the sides of the t-pillars wouldve been used to support wood poles. uses for these poles i can think of are; bracing the pillars, use as a curtain rail to hide or divide a room/annex, support for shelf, some other hanging use, perhaps for pelts and furs, drying herbs, as support for drying racks or spears -something along those lines.
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It's obvious that these people had great veneration for the animals around them. As animists they would have perceived these animals as having or being a spirit or deity and so perhaps were symbolizing those spirits within the carvings. They may have brought offerings to seek bounty or protection from predators thinking the spirits would accept these and grant their prayers.
Maybe in the context of "becoming a man" ( or hunter, as we don't know how egalitarian the society was), the pillars unadorned by fox pelts represented the unitiated hunter, while the fox pelt represented a hunter who had made perhaps not a first kill, but a first kill of a large predator. They may well have been seen as elite hunters, the best at their craft, and so celebrated. The gap between the tqo pillars could have represented crossing over to that exalted status. Also, is there any remnant of brwwing at these sites, or of the ingeation of any psychotropic plants? That may also have been part of a celebratory ritual. As well, I'm reminded of the Cain and Abel story. Could it have been that aabel was the better hunter, and Cain was unable to provide a socially significant kill to present to whatever deity was worshipped, and the story just handed down in a somewhat baatardised version?
Brown bears are known to have lived in eastern Anatolia and in regions between Turkey to Turkmenistan. Some brown bears still live in soem parts of Turkey but are rare today. So, that animal could well be a bear, and not a boar.
The testicle thing is probably true, in Spain we still it them nowadays, they are served in bars and restaurants. But I think it goes more with Nim, the Egyptian God
I have to wonder what the interior of the buildings looked like with a roof resting on top of them. It seems the beautiful starkness and drama of the T pillars that we see now might be lessened by saplings or leafy branches resting on top. We should also consider what the ceiling, as an integral part of the original structure, might have represented to the builders.
Question: Since we know how to date myths and also their corresponding human migratory patterns, would we then be able to get an idea of what myths may have been present in the area at the time? If so, could we then focus in on those mythemes the iconography seems to indicate such as: coming of age, the hunt, twins, dragons/rain snakes, etc? If so, we may be able to obtain a rough sketch of what stories the iconography seems to suggest. Also, it occurred to me that the ball the vulture is playing with could be BOTH the head of the decapitated man AND the sun. Just some thoughts. Anyway, excellent and informative video as always... Thank you!
As humans migrated, they encountered new landscapes, challenges, and other groups, leading to adaptations in their mythologies. Artifacts, cave paintings, and oral traditions can provide context for dating myths? I think but not really much detail
Yes, although dating myths is not that specific without further context, although we could certainly understand the motifs being said. I just need more data and then I maybe able to present a more solid case of the specific motifs told here at this time,
38:58 “Pillar 37 shows either some naivety on the scaling of these images, or there were sausage-dog-looking foxes in the area, which I don’t believe there were” Damn bro, roasting the quality of these artisans’ work 😂
There are 3 baskets on pillar 43, look up towards the pole star, you see 3 baskets, the Big and Little Dippers, between them, the basket shaped head of Draco.
@@Crecganford I'm at 1:03:33 at the moment, I believe you said the were homes with round top roofs. The head of Draco and the first curl was associated with Damu the Sumerian dying and rising vegetation god called the Swine or Pig, the Little dipper was associated with a wolf or dog, the ancient Greeks called it "The Dog's Tail", Cynosura (originally Κυνόσουρα in Greek). the Big Dipper was associated with the leg of a Bull, the Leg of the Bull was the father of Cynosura, known as Wepwawet, his name means "Opener of the Ways". he is seen riding a Plow, which is another name of the Big Dipper. Damu was the son of Pabilsag, whose name means "Chief Ancestor", seen as Sagittarius, damu means Blood, brother and relative, in Sumerian, Sah means Pig, Sahu means Boar, those were the Egyptian names for Orion. The handle could be seen as them going around the dome of the northern sky, they did think there was a hidden world behind the spinning pole star, it's where Taweret or Reret (Sow) keeps Seth the god of Chaos chained in Egyptian myology, Taweret was seen as Draco and Ursa, she is a hippopotamus, seen as a water pig, with limbs of a lion, Mistress of the horizon, Mistress of of pure water, goddess of rebirth. I just see something else than you is all.
@@Crecganford When you get to the rest of my comments, you'll see, I know what I'm talking about, in Sumerian Gal means Great, but it also means Cup, do you know why? In Irish, cup-la means Twin.
@@Crecganford In a court of Law, ones silence means he agrees, he has no rebuttal, it's been two days. As you might know, Taweret was associated with Draco and Ursa Major by the Egyptians, Taweret is a Hippopotamus, Ursa Major a Bear, funny, the Sumerian word Dimshah means both Bear and Hippopotamus, in Egyptian mythology, she chained Seth (Thigh of the Bull's Leg) to the Pole Star. In Sumerian, 'dim' means Pillar (43) Post Pole, or it means Bond, Binded, Knot. 'sha' or 'shah' means Heart as 'sah' (Orion) means Pig, or her as Reret means Sow, this is from the Pole of Orion, we call his Sword, the 8th brightest star of Orion, "Hatysa", the ancient Egyptian word "Haty" means Heart, (Shah), the "Sa" is the sign seen next to Twaeret's Right Leg, it means Lifesaver or Protection. in Sumerian "sa" means Muscle, Sinew, or the color Red. When you look at the Milky Way Galaxy, going over the top of us like a Handle, running from Sagittarius, the Golden gate of the Gods, to Gemini, the Silver Gate of Man, looking up you see those 3 basket always spinning around us, never falling below the horizon, why Taweret was the Mistress of the Horizon. You wield your education around like a club, i on the other hand quit high school because I was unable to read or write above the 3rd grade, I'm self taught, no over educated ego to place me in a box. Don't come take a swipe at me a run away, I don't take it very well.
Have you seen the 2023 video by The Prehistory Guys of their 3 day visit. The 1st leg of a marathon journey from Gobekli Tepe to Stonehenge. Well worth a look.
To say that the people who constructed the site had no writing is a foregone conclusion from the fact that no familiar scripture had been found, yet. We know of much older sets of repeating symbols across Ice Age Europe which relevance as possible precursors to writing, we haven't decided upon, yet. It is not impossible that the symbols on the artifacts are indeed early pictograms, reminiscent of hieroglyphs, telling a story not just symbolically, but literally.
Sayburc... the first image does indeed look like a "blooding" ritual. In my lifetime, British fox-hunters used to cut the brush off a fox and rub it on the noses of any novices present (usually children). However, in the Trobriand Islands, a building was collapsed onto a copulating couple at the moment of orgasm - and onanism was part of Ancient Egyptian ritual.
im sorry i havent visited as often as id like. My priority for my limited mental energy is ukraine invasion and dispelling geopolitical propaganda But damn i saw this title and theories/insights on gobekli tepe are VERY close to my heart, i know i wont be disappointed and i cannot wait til iv cooked my meal and can sit down to this!
@@Crecganford p.s. i fully appreciate the time and hardwork you put into this vid, Your insights were/are particularly valuable esp re the symbolism as i feel theres not enough input from other non-archaeology experts. i feel 'we' can sometimes come across as 'ungrateful' and too ready to say our bit, to pick things apart esp if/because weve come to cherish certain ideas too much on such topics XD
Those round holes make me wonder if they're for horizontal rods. Maybe for curtains that can be pushed aside to reveal something, or maybe poles for banners. They look deep enough and wide enough to hold something that could take some weight, so maybe something more substantial than cloth hung from them.
@@oakstrong1 Good point. Although fiber arts might be older than we can prove, since both cloth and looms would rot over time, the anthropomorphic pillars did show fox pelt loincloths.
Modern people often over interpret that ancient pictures show rituals. What we forget is that life back then was a struggle for efficiency. The easier you survive the better. People were thinking practical. Ancient Pictures show how to be efficient and how to master life. It's not all religious.
But that view could be argued as a modern view as it doesm't take into account that people may have thought that everything was sacred, which is a view held by may scholars, things were done deliberatley, and if they're sacred, there would be ritual, and if there is ritual, there would be myth.
@@Crecganford your right, many scholars believe that people of ancient times thought that everything was sacred. That belief comes from the early days of archeology when western archeologists were themselves deeply biased towards religion. And it's a very sticky belief.
I have only started watching but I can't help myself - I HAVE to comment: I'm SO glad you got to go there - I saw you in the Ancient Architects video first and I was - "wait a minute I know him" and I want to thank you for something else even before watching the rest: THANK YOU for not using AI art on this one - I love your channel but I had stopped watching because I couldn't stomach the AI. I know images from myths and ancient civilizations are scarce, but AI looks SO weird! (not to mention the environmental impact and their databanks stealing from actual artists) 🙏
30:15 ... The position of the hands on the pillar (groin area) is very similar to how the statues on easter island have their hands positioned (the larger, more complete statues). Is there a deeper meaning to this?
Is there a theory that the symbols may represent clans? I doubt there will ever be much certainty to any social conclusions from the sites but perhaps if there was a pattern to the symbols found in the dwelling, maybe that would suggest clan symbology?
Something like this crossed my mind, with certain enclosures having more of a particualr animal type than others, and so were they for different sets of people? We may never know, but it is an interesting thought.
It was a hunting camp (Tent City) at the base of the Euphrates river. The Hunting/Proving Grounds of Assyrian Royalty. This is just a stab in the dark. With little to no basis, other than the geographical location of these sites.
I like to keep things simple. The dead animals, the dangerous predators, the variety of animals, a few selections of snakes and vultures. This is the animal landscape. The dangerous animal landscape. Some are food that will feed many. Some must be killed in large numbers to feed a community. I would say it is about life and community. On the other hand, maybe it’s a memorial for those killed by the dangerous animals. The ones they went after and brought back to the community so everyone could live and a representation of the animal they were hunting and killed the one being memorialized. Maybe John is right and these are where stories were told and acted out. That is a simple explanation for me.
What are your theories about the symbols and iconography at these sites?
I had the totemism and clans coming together for rites of passage theory. On the central pillars the presence of foxes never dawned upon me. I have seen the images, but that detail I missed. And I love foxes! I do think that the ancestor (skull) cult was a big part of it too. So a funerary cult. Especially with the vulture symbolism too. So there is for sure a death and underworld thing going on. With also as I know evidence of feasting there and other locations, and chemical analysis of alcohol, I suspect that there were both funerary and fertility rites happening at Gobekli Tepe. Probably at different times of the year. Maybe spring versus winter. With rites of passage also playing a big role. The central pillars I always took for a deity couple or twins of sort. Maybe hieros gamos. Which could tie well into the fertility aspect of it as well, next to the rite of passage.
The fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis is a story about new religious ideas about self-awareness. The Bible says agriculture resulted from eating the fruit (i.e., becoming self-aware). I think that these are memories of an actual religious movement that preceded agriculture and that the snakes at Gobekli Tepe are Lucifer, the light-bringer. If myths about sea-level rise can last 10,000 years, why wouldn't we retain cultural memories of the transition to agriculture. BTW, these are not my ideas. See Jacques Cauvin, an esteemed archeologist who wrote The Birth of the Gods and the Origins of Agriculture.
@@andrewcutler4599 I suspect that our ancIent ancestors were aware of the dangers of rapId technologIcal advance, and the symbols and Iconography represent a contemporary dIscussIon. GenesIs contInues thIs dIscussIon.
05:42 the man is holding a slingshot.
One of the foxes looks like its in a hunting pounce, and I find it interesting the animals represented. And thank you so much for sharing this.
It was great to share the adventure to Turkey with you mate!
It was Matt, and one day I'm sure we'll talk history rather than footy!
@@Crecganford two of my favorite channels
@@JonnoPlayshey Jonno!
Yes, same here. Two of my favourite content creators!
What a crossover!
Only 20 minutes in, and this is already one of the most enlightening perspectives on the sites that I've ever heard from anyone! Thank you for your amazing insight Jon!
Thank you for yor very kind words, they are appreciated.
I agree. 😊 🏴
Jon, it’s sincerely refreshing the way you speculate with caution and with measured reason to leave things open. You are right, we may never know. For many to jump to solid conclusions is very irresponsible. Thank you for always staying true to yourself and for not following popular hype around ancient sites like this ❤
It's wonderful, Atlantis hasn't come up once! 😁
Thank you for your kind words, I do my best to remain unbiased in my views.
Agree! That’s one of my favourite things about these videos
Dorchester MA or Dorchester England?
@notmyname9625 What if instead of notmyname9625 he was called “notmy 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴9625” and instead of being a normal person he was trying to hook up with someone in the comments
I'm using the auto-generated subtitles and they keep rendering "auroch" as "orc", which adds a whole new dimension to our ancestral journey.
Perhaps I should deliberately try and get more subtle Lord of the Rings references into these videos.
Hello friends. I see at this point there were 30K views. But only 1k "likes"... Please get in habit of clicking 👍 to help not only spread his good teaching that monetarily he will gain. I am a big fan of Mr White's work. Blessings to you all.
Thank you for your support.
Thankyou. Gobekli Tepe has been waiting 10,000 years for this video!
Growing up in my small farming community in Michigan there was a story that you had to take a bite of the heart after hunting a deer. That was the 1980s. There still is quite a bit of traditional to hunting there. Gas stations build wood structures to hold bucks to show off the number of antlers. Which ever hunter has the the biggest deer/ most antlers wins money. It's a fascinating study of ancient practices in the modern world.
I can assure you that tradition was very much alive in southern Michigan when I took my first deer in the early 2000's
@fcnova2291 so gross
Feminine beauty and masculine bravery are celebrate in all cultures across the world.
@@heathergallimore1371 my family has a tradition where when we kill a deer for the first time we mark our forehead with a bit of its blood, line between the eyes. It sounds gross but in the moment you feel a deep connection with your family and the deer.
Thanks for the exclusive look into all this newly revealed ancient iconography. We see more and more signs of starting civilization at 9000-10,000 BCE the more we look. There is so much here I hope we can get further answers to in the future.
That was fantastic, I've never seen all the pillars presented like that.
Thank you so much.
When I saw the images of the dead animals and their bent in legs, I was reminded of a hunting display. As a lad, hunters would formally “lay out” their day’s kills ritualistically. I wonder if this ritual could be related, but with more symbolic significance.
At 10:15 you were right 1st time. The picture on the right is part of a porthole. These were set into the rooves. As at Catalhuyuk entry to the homes and communal areas was via the roof. I think it was last year (2023) that careful excavation of the debris showed voids left by rotted roof beams. As there were slots on top of the T pillars that suggested they supported a roof this is confirmation. Along with the portholes of course.
This is interesting, I shall try and find further information about this.
Many of the images that included bent knees, combined with the angle of the animal, gave me the impression of movement. I also lean into the idea that these images are tied to stories that we'll never know. I continue to hold space for the possibility of astrological alignment, but I'm curious, not adamant.
Yes, that is the fascinating thing, we may never know for sure and they'll probably always be arguments for opposing views.
What a breath of fresh air your lectures are, Sir. Your presentation is a delight. Your visual aids are informative and relevant, not just "dressing". Your expanse of knowledge of - what do I call it? - the thousands of years long phenomenon of Homo sapien sapien psychology and culture? - is breathtaking. Your commitment to academic integrity is admirable and honourable. Thank you. I am about to become a paying customer.
Wow, thank you so much for your kind words. To me, I just love teaching, and I try to do it in a way I would have like to have been taught.
How exciting! Thank you for the adventure, Jon.
Thank you for coming along with me.
Best Gobekli Tepi video by far. So much more informative about what is at the actual site than other videos I've seen. Other videos focus on the age and dating of the ruins which is cool too but I love your description of all the carvings and artifacts.
Thank you for your kind words, they're appreciated.
Regarding bull castration. Practiced even today in Spain. The testicles of the slain bull is bought buy top restaurants. Also, testicles of the sacrificed bull were offered to Artemis of Ephesus. The multiple oval structures were misinterpreted as breasts. But the structures are attached to the tunic rather than the body.
Hey Crec,
I like this format! I really enjoy the stories you tell, but this blend into the more popular archeology is cool.
I want to hear your cohesive opinion on ancient archeology sites in relation to much, much older myths which inform the creation of these places!
Slainthe
Thank you for the feedback, my next video will be another opinion piece which you may enjoy.
I wish we could see the whole of that area how it was in its "golden age"... Great video Jon!
Thank you!
This is great! One of the best presentations of the tepes I've seen. Thanks Crecganford.😊
Thank you so much.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the support, it is appreciated.
So happy you did this topic!! Great video! Well done yet again
The puts on the top of the pillars could have been anchor points for roofing. Perhaps
To me, listening to your lectures is the verbal equivalent of reading the Golden Bough for the first time, absolutely gripping and magical and wise stuff in your voice. Thank you. * At the risk of sounding like a wingnut, Jon, have you seen the videos of the bottom halves of the Moai on Easter Island that are carved with symbols, animals, belts and even, in some cases, the hands so reminiscent of Gobekli Tepe?
If I had to make an informed guess I would say the iconography and pillars and reliefs at Gobekli Tepe comprise a kind of horizontal totem-pole with tribal animal totems and other symbols representing hunting magic, coming-of-age magic, sex magic, nature magic, death magic, etc., a kind of stations-of-the-cross for neolothic hunter-gatherers making the transition to a farming, herding society. Just tossing around ideas.
Absolutely love this stuff! Thank you for sharing your images and findings and thoughts about these pieces of ancient history. It's incredible to try to reach your mind back to those early, early days when people just like me lived in such a different world altogether. It might have been the same Earth, but the world you live in is much more than the rock you walk on ❤
Myths are collective memory of ancient past. It is a window for us to better understand how our ancestors perceive the cosmos.
Definitely the best info about these sites available. Really appreciate and enjoy your channel. 🏴
Great video! Thank you Jon for your efforts and thoughts. I definitely agree that pillar 43 does not depict handbags - the key indicator of typical handbag iconography, funnily, is the hand that holds the handbag (as opposed to a disembodied free floating bag x3). I also agree that hunting was central to these folk and would take it a step further to suggest that G.Tepe was a hunting school - for instance, pillar 1, to my untrained and unlearned eye, looks more like a net being cast on the ram. Following from this, I find your view on pillar 43 depicting possible game that are near the dwellings compelling - perhaps the rest of the pillar 43 has a temporal element - i.e. when (which seasons) would particular animals be readily found.
Thank you for that feedback and your thoughts, they are always appreciated.
i agree re pillar 1 showing a net to capture/drive the sheep
Ive heard a theory that the 'handbags' are sunsets/sunrises at 3 of the key seasons equinox/solstice and the animals depicted coincide with the 'ruling' constellation.
We do know that there's evidence of same animal-constellation associations 8k yrs old and many suspect some of the 40k yr old paintings depict same animal associated with constellation (dots on the shoulder of a bull align with where tauroid meteor stream seems to originate)
Im borrowing from jean M auel here, but in her 'earth's children' paleo based fantasy series, most of the people recognise 3 seasons spring was longer back then, summer and early autumn were merged and winter was winter. The 'shamanic' people were imparting knowledge to adepts in the book and said there were 2 'hidden' seasons making 5 in total and went into other shamanic teachings and numeral symbolism. I know that the herbalism and archaology n her research were 100% on point, she became honorary archaeologist from the research she did into the series. This 3 seasons idea might be why theres only 3 sunset/sunrise handbags.
But also, as i think this was a place of teaching and celebration, im thinking spring, summer and autumn are best times to hunt. animals migrate south or diff terrain or hibernate in winter -chamois come down from mountains, sure, so would be easier, but mammoths went north, animals were skinnier, less of the essential fat humans needed to survive and excuse my brainfog, but i believe that humans didnt hunt in winter anywhere where there's 4 seasons.
Im not making a good argument, but hopefully you can fill the gaps of my poor communication slips
I dont think the pillars or encirclements their positions have anything to do with astronomy/astrology, but i do wonder about some of the symbolism, like the bags
I think 'teeth bared' = death grin.
Also...those nine snakes look more like a net to me.
I know they weren't true pastoralists, but likely herding had gone on a long time before fences...but anyone who's tried to catch a sheep that don't want to be caught knows how useful a net would be.
I agree it can look like a net, but there are snake like heads at the bottom of their bodies, plus why would they draw a net on a pillar? I think, for now, that they are probably snakes.
@@Crecganford I can dig that
Another pro-snake argument, at least on the pillars shown, I don't recall that any of them had depiction of hunting or tools used for hunting/herding
Many thanks!
Wouldn't it be lovely to have a public full list (with images) of all reliefs and sculptures etc. and their locations, including the "totem poles" and the protomes that is constantly being updated?
I guess any interpretation of the images/reliefs will remain very precarious, considering that with many (most?) of the settlements/structures/images/reliefs we do not know if they where contemporaneous or not, or in what stages of repair/revision/reconstruction they might have been contemporaneous. There might be several hundred years between the initial erection of a decorated pillar and its reworking or reuse -- and might it not diminish or erase meaning of an image/relief if it ended up facing into the wall upon reuse?
There is great tragedy in losing our past. In seeking it, great beauty. If we can find our past then we can find our future!
Ooh hour long vid on Oldest temple? Hell yeah!
Thank you so much for this video! All of them, actually.
When you say ‘T-pillars’ I hear ‘tea-pillars’. And i make a sip😹
That's exactly how UA-cam originally translated it!
@ 😹
Great video. Thanks going through all the pillars. Very cool.
Concentrating cereal crops would be a mouse magnet. The mice would be a snake, and fox magnet. Maybe the snakes and foxes were being depicted so frequently because they were considered honourable and powerful allies because they were eating the mice, and/or they were depicted so frequently because it was believed it would attract more of them to the area to eat the mice. Poor mice.
foxes and snakes eat each other and anything else. .really not honourable etc ,the opposite .Foxes go to a den to breed and roam around otherwise ,nocturnal .There would be many things to eat ,I think only the modern store bought snake particularly eats mice !So don't know why they liked them ,but those fox tails look cosy.I think the big snake has little snakes in it,like a human male.ahem.
Very well put together
Pillar 37 with the 'long' Fox made me immediately think of a komodo dragon or possibly iguana. Which surprised me, then you said fox.
That's all really fascinating... the place is amazing. A couple thoughts...
1). The "snakes" on the first pillar. When the picture came up, before I was paying attention to what you were saying about it, my literal first thought was, "Oh cool... they hunted with [weighted] nets!". Even after hearing snakes - which I don't see at all - it still looks like a net being thrown over the animal below.
2). I think you are right about most of the animals being dead. Which is probably just what a bunch of H&Gs like in an animal. (Live critters ain't dinner.)
3). I'm not sure about the auroch with his tongue out being dead. Maybe he's pining for the fields. 😉
"Today, were going to go back 10 to 12 thousand years in the past."
So something recent, I see.
Technology, craftmaship and artistry is quite advanced even in the earliest monument. That means human history must be older than this.
Finally I've got time to watch this video. It really frustrating that we can only guessing and may never know the true meaning of the ancient archeological sites. As you cited that "fame never fades", I kinda agree to disagree because 2 thousands years is not a short time span. More likely that I doubt that, at least that the people -2000 years after the hero lived- still remember about the true story. We here today have a vague knowledge about what was really happened a century ago, save that our grandparents had not possessed any technology that we have now. Furthermore, the people from Gobleki Tepe era to PIE speakers, I believe, had shorter life span due to the quality of nutrition and medicine they had at that time. A century, for us, is about 4 generations, but it might be more for people from prehistoric era. I wish I can peek into ancient times to know what was really happen 😅
Thanks for going inplace and sharing this firsthand experiences with us. For sure, more digestion will come, looking forward to it- as one comment mentioned -please let us know what was known about the migrations at this time and what your myth database would support for this symbols and with what confidence level. The idea with transition from ancestors to gods (civilization) is a likely trace. But many, many animals present here, extremely important somehow-may be animistic representations of groups, ancestors, forces? Your deep experience with native cultures will give further insights-what a.e in comparison to ice age siberians? What role had the fox there or the wolf? Yep, more will come! 😃👍
- I miss yet the geobiological input- we are after the younger drias period- wasn't that a warming period, delivering rich growth of animal herds and plants in this area? That would explain, why hunter/gatherers finally can build longer term stable settlements, no? Then it would have been a period of growth and fertility.
- The twins: Yes that's an interesting thesis to prolong the twins from indoeuropean times to Göpekli Tepe..however no double human imprints have been found on the double pilars, nor double animals, or similar animals as fox/wulf, no? I am fascinated by this double pilars. Did you see at 22:30 all this double pilars point basically the same direction ? the long X-axis is not necessary for static reasons, even if you have just short branches available for the roof- an engineer would just use 2 separate, rough pilars to overcome short branches- but here, with high efforts, 2 plates have been flattened- with the tools of the time, imagine. Just to get them flat and parallel. This was very important to them, and always the same gap width and direction so it had a meaning to them. May be this was the direction of their origin, or a star prominent at that time, or where they wanted to move to ? It also is so abstract for a culture that otherwise is very concrete, animistic, and has few abstract symbols. May be it was a further development of the stone age pattern for tombs- 2 sideplates and a roof plate- but the roof plate has gone here, why ? Did they want to show the stars, was it an open roof ? So many ideas are possible at this stage, looking forward to further clues. Very inspiring.
Great video, mate! 👏👏
Thanks Sturla!
Can't find it now, but I've seen another vid that made a compelling argument that these are not snakes but eels - or at least that some of them are eels. I just have to remember on what channel. And if they are eels then these creatures shown in a channel would mean they are swimming in a river.
I said the same thing earlier. It's just a theory of course. And eels don't have heads like that. If a snake has a head shaped like an arrowhead, it's likely poisonous. But whatever these are, they are not shown with teeth, so it's hard to say. I think when eels come out to go up river, it would be a strange sight to anyone, but especially during a time when they were hunting animals to live.
Yes, they could be, although the distinctive head, makes me feel they are more representative of a snake. Eel heads tend to be the same width as the body,
Amazing, lots to see, I loved looking at the pictures and listening to your describtion and explanation, I didn't even realise it was one hour long :)
24:19 if they are snakes, on the botom there is a two headed snake :D - head 3 and 4 share the same ''body'' or one head is extra...
(I've seen this image a million times and I just notices it now)
43:43 could it be we are looking at a circle of life here? Old animal dies, young one is born - life goes on. Or the big one died protecting the young one, again life goes on.
also the crudeness of this carving (and some other one later) could be like you said, the skill of carving was lost, or it is older.
Or it could also be done in a hurry after some event or maybe it is just a scetched outline and the carving was never finished...
About the bend legs, I see they are bend but do we also see somewhere animals with straight legs? I think some of the birds have straight legs, what about the others. They could be all dead or maybe that is just how they carved legs?
These are all possibilities, we may never know for sure, it is fascinating to actaully see all these symbols, this art, and ponder what was going on 10,000 years ago.
Congrats on 200K!
Thank you.
Most fascinating, thank you.
When i took my first doe my dad made me take a bite of her heart. Weird i know but i remember the warmth of the blood, how proud i was i really did feel like a man. My old man made it very clear that it was about respect for the animal that it was providing for us. Strange to think about from a modern view point but its good to feel some kind of connection to the past and all of humanity. Even from such a strange and somewhat barbaric tradition
Thank you so much for bringing the iconography to life (life is myth, not math)
Bloody marvelous. Thank you.
Thank you.
Fantastic video Thankyou for sharing 🙏
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment such kind words, they are appreciated.
Always presented at Tea Time, but for my it is whiskey hour! Still love it all the same... always brilliant!
Yes, I'm partial to the odd whiskey myself.
Snakes! Lots and lots of snakes! - Homes and communal places dug into the ground would likely be attractive places to snakes.
snakes avoid humans.
Some of the animals, in particular the fox and the snake, could be a symbol of lineage or other type of social group. Most of the remaining animals could be food animals- the critters that were hunted and eaten.
Gobekli Tepe... A Sheelagh-na-Gig. I didn't expect that. She features on Kilpeck Church, not far away from me (nice pub nearby).
So, perhaps our ancestors carved images of their hunting victories to commemorate those moments, while in later times, men mounted heads to walls. For instance, wealthy, Victorian era men certainly saw themselves as conquerors of the wild world. The hunt unites men across thousands of years, even in eras where survival didn't depend upon it.
An hour long video 😍yes, please!
I love how the automatic subtitles turn the aurochs into orcs. Gives all this a whole different meaning. :)
I haven't been able to shake the feeling that a lot of the carvings at gobekli were done during a time of incredible hardship, or more precisely, famine. The amount of energy put into the site almost speaks of a certain desperation, and the disproportionate amount of imagery depicting dead animals, rib cages, hands on stomachs...clearly speaks to me of a very rough period. However, the representations of the phallus would also indicate an urgent need to keep procreating, especially in the face of mass starvation. Whatever the case, i dont think it was all sunshine and lollipops for the humans at this time.
Yes, I always thought the images of people here were more on the thin side, deliberately so. Not because it was a preference, but maybe because of hard times.
Or done when they had some spare time.
@@HighWealder When you're a hunter gatherer with nothing but dead animals around, all you have is spare time. Explains... Well, everything.
@@matthewbecker7389 quite the opposite, you have less time because you will have to invest more time in hunting your prey.
@@toxic-o1u🤔 Agreed... I think I was trying to imply that since there's nothing but starved dead animals around, there's nothing actually left to hunt. 😳😵💀Hence, the natural course of action then is to embark on a paradigm shifting arts and crafts spree, with a smattering of cryptic animal sculptures,🦤🦂🐍and just enough phallic symbolism thrown in to mess with future archeologists and ancient👽🍆 alien podcasts. But that aside, if we're sticking strictly to reality in the comments without any wiggle room for absurdist exaggeration, then yes, I completely agree with you.
✌️🥸
Thank you for this in-depth pillar presentation! - I think "ancestors" is more appropriate than "gods". Twins are also a matter of (mythological) significance in central Africa
Thank you sir.
This may be sacrilgeous, but I drink coffee while I watch your videos.
This is fine, the video is about sites in Turkey, and the Turkish love their coffee. I did try some, but despite its unforgettable taste remain a tea drinker.
Gasp! Coffee makes me barf. Lifelong tea drinker.
I AM a true believer cafetarian but I love these videos
Excellent as usual. My question: there is a preponderance of male / phallic imagery and hunter / prey celebration imagery, also potentially masculine (but not necessarily). There are some female images but seemingly fewer. Does this indicate that the Tepe culture was patriarchal, following the model that the transition from hunter gathering to agriculture / sedentary lifestyles tended to privilege male strength by enabling control of an economic surplus? Or is there more “female” “meaning” within these monuments? I am not sure: perhaps the very existence of and shape of the monuments represented female / reproductive power, with male hunter initiation taking place within that matrifocal context? I suspect the picture is quite complex. I would be very interested in your thoughts and I would like to see a video from you on how the evolution of mythology might represent the emergence of patriarchy.
I think it suggests that the males were probably deciding what images would be carved, and so could suggest a male lead society.
I was thinking of the gangs of men moving around ,women elsewhere.(Except that one poor female,) .This matches the foxes behaviour who roam and return to a den to breed..@@Crecganford
34:10... _"the hungry leopard will take your kill"_
i think the pits/holes on the sides of the t-pillars wouldve been used to support wood poles. uses for these poles i can think of are; bracing the pillars, use as a curtain rail to hide or divide a room/annex, support for shelf, some other hanging use, perhaps for pelts and furs, drying herbs, as support for drying racks or spears -something along those lines.
Sir, I understand that this is out of the blue, however you have a great voice. Have you ever thought about doing voice overs? I believe you would be a natural and quickly a favorite. Might I suggest you contact the podcast, "Midnight Burger". I am of the opinion that you would be very welcome, and very popular. Your own channel is good, but I believe you have a great opportunity for general acting that I as a listener would hate to miss. Please consider it.
Thank you for your feedback, and many people say they fall asleep to my voice. I'll look at the Midnight Burger and see what it is about.
We live in a cool era!
I believe the urinating man is a reference to an important ingredient in the tanning methods of the times, urine. Urine was collected.
It's obvious that these people had great veneration for the animals around them. As animists they would have perceived these animals as having or being a spirit or deity and so perhaps were symbolizing those spirits within the carvings. They may have brought offerings to seek bounty or protection from predators thinking the spirits would accept these and grant their prayers.
Pillar 22 might be a river with eels, travelling in a certain direction, maybe at a certain time
Thanks for anotner really interesting video!!!
And thank you fro watching and taking the time to comment, it is appreicated.
@@Crecganford You are very welcome! I watch all your videos and they are always fascinating!!
Maybe in the context of "becoming a man" ( or hunter, as we don't know how egalitarian the society was), the pillars unadorned by fox pelts represented the unitiated hunter, while the fox pelt represented a hunter who had made perhaps not a first kill, but a first kill of a large predator. They may well have been seen as elite hunters, the best at their craft, and so celebrated. The gap between the tqo pillars could have represented crossing over to that exalted status.
Also, is there any remnant of brwwing at these sites, or of the ingeation of any psychotropic plants? That may also have been part of a celebratory ritual.
As well, I'm reminded of the Cain and Abel story. Could it have been that aabel was the better hunter, and Cain was unable to provide a socially significant kill to present to whatever deity was worshipped, and the story just handed down in a somewhat baatardised version?
Brown bears are known to have lived in eastern Anatolia and in regions between Turkey to Turkmenistan. Some brown bears still live in soem parts of Turkey but are rare today. So, that animal could well be a bear, and not a boar.
Yes, it is definately possible.
The testicle thing is probably true, in Spain we still it them nowadays, they are served in bars and restaurants. But I think it goes more with Nim, the Egyptian God
I have to wonder what the interior of the buildings looked like with a roof resting on top of them. It seems the beautiful starkness and drama of the T pillars that we see now might be lessened by saplings or leafy branches resting on top. We should also consider what the ceiling, as an integral part of the original structure, might have represented to the builders.
Question: Since we know how to date myths and also their corresponding human migratory patterns, would we then be able to get an idea of what myths may have been present in the area at the time? If so, could we then focus in on those mythemes the iconography seems to indicate such as: coming of age, the hunt, twins, dragons/rain snakes, etc? If so, we may be able to obtain a rough sketch of what stories the iconography seems to suggest. Also, it occurred to me that the ball the vulture is playing with could be BOTH the head of the decapitated man AND the sun. Just some thoughts. Anyway, excellent and informative video as always... Thank you!
As humans migrated, they encountered new landscapes, challenges, and other groups, leading to adaptations in their mythologies. Artifacts, cave paintings, and oral traditions can provide context for dating myths? I think but not really much detail
Yes, although dating myths is not that specific without further context, although we could certainly understand the motifs being said. I just need more data and then I maybe able to present a more solid case of the specific motifs told here at this time,
38:58 “Pillar 37 shows either some naivety on the scaling of these images, or there were sausage-dog-looking foxes in the area, which I don’t believe there were”
Damn bro, roasting the quality of these artisans’ work 😂
There are 3 baskets on pillar 43, look up towards the pole star, you see 3 baskets, the Big and Little Dippers, between them, the basket shaped head of Draco.
I guess you didn't watch the video?
@@Crecganford I'm at 1:03:33 at the moment, I believe you said the were homes with round top roofs. The head of Draco and the first curl was associated with Damu the Sumerian dying and rising vegetation god called the Swine or Pig, the Little dipper was associated with a wolf or dog, the ancient Greeks called it "The Dog's Tail", Cynosura (originally Κυνόσουρα in Greek). the Big Dipper was associated with the leg of a Bull, the Leg of the Bull was the father of Cynosura, known as Wepwawet, his name means "Opener of the Ways". he is seen riding a Plow, which is another name of the Big Dipper. Damu was the son of Pabilsag, whose name means "Chief Ancestor", seen as Sagittarius, damu means Blood, brother and relative, in Sumerian, Sah means Pig, Sahu means Boar, those were the Egyptian names for Orion. The handle could be seen as them going around the dome of the northern sky, they did think there was a hidden world behind the spinning pole star, it's where Taweret or Reret (Sow) keeps Seth the god of Chaos chained in Egyptian myology, Taweret was seen as Draco and Ursa, she is a hippopotamus, seen as a water pig, with limbs of a lion, Mistress of the horizon, Mistress of of pure water, goddess of rebirth.
I just see something else than you is all.
@@Crecganford When you get to the rest of my comments, you'll see, I know what I'm talking about, in Sumerian Gal means Great, but it also means Cup, do you know why? In Irish, cup-la means Twin.
@@Crecganford In a court of Law, ones silence means he agrees, he has no rebuttal, it's been two days.
As you might know, Taweret was associated with Draco and Ursa Major by the Egyptians, Taweret is a Hippopotamus, Ursa Major a Bear, funny, the Sumerian word Dimshah means both Bear and Hippopotamus, in Egyptian mythology, she chained Seth (Thigh of the Bull's Leg) to the Pole Star. In Sumerian, 'dim' means Pillar (43) Post Pole, or it means Bond, Binded, Knot. 'sha' or 'shah' means Heart as 'sah' (Orion) means Pig, or her as Reret means Sow, this is from the Pole of Orion, we call his Sword, the 8th brightest star of Orion, "Hatysa", the ancient Egyptian word "Haty" means Heart, (Shah), the "Sa" is the sign seen next to Twaeret's Right Leg, it means Lifesaver or Protection. in Sumerian "sa" means Muscle, Sinew, or the color Red.
When you look at the Milky Way Galaxy, going over the top of us like a Handle, running from Sagittarius, the Golden gate of the Gods, to Gemini, the Silver Gate of Man, looking up you see those 3 basket always spinning around us, never falling below the horizon, why Taweret was the Mistress of the Horizon.
You wield your education around like a club, i on the other hand quit high school because I was unable to read or write above the 3rd grade, I'm self taught, no over educated ego to place me in a box. Don't come take a swipe at me a run away, I don't take it very well.
Thank you!
Have you seen the 2023 video by The Prehistory Guys of their 3 day visit. The 1st leg of a marathon journey from Gobekli Tepe to Stonehenge.
Well worth a look.
Yes, I follow them when I can.
Thanks for the great content.
And thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
To say that the people who constructed the site had no writing is a foregone conclusion from the fact that no familiar scripture had been found, yet.
We know of much older sets of repeating symbols across Ice Age Europe which relevance as possible precursors to writing, we haven't decided upon, yet.
It is not impossible that the symbols on the artifacts are indeed early pictograms, reminiscent of hieroglyphs, telling a story not just symbolically, but literally.
The figure of the "excited" man at Sayberg tepe looks like the same pose as the Urfa man statue
Yes, and I may talk about that link in a future video, I just need more data before I can do so.
Sayburc... the first image does indeed look like a "blooding" ritual. In my lifetime, British fox-hunters used to cut the brush off a fox and rub it on the noses of any novices present (usually children).
However, in the Trobriand Islands, a building was collapsed onto a copulating couple at the moment of orgasm - and onanism was part of Ancient Egyptian ritual.
im sorry i havent visited as often as id like.
My priority for my limited mental energy is ukraine invasion and dispelling geopolitical propaganda
But damn i saw this title and theories/insights on gobekli tepe are VERY close to my heart, i know i wont be disappointed and i cannot wait til iv cooked my meal and can sit down to this!
I hope you enjoy it.
@@Crecganford i thoroughly did n helped me build on some ideas i was brewing, which iv shared
@@Crecganford p.s. i fully appreciate the time and hardwork you put into this vid, Your insights were/are particularly valuable esp re the symbolism as i feel theres not enough input from other non-archaeology experts.
i feel 'we' can sometimes come across as 'ungrateful' and too ready to say our bit, to pick things apart esp if/because weve come to cherish certain ideas too much on such topics XD
Aah, was hoping to see your opinion on the site at some point.
I really enjoyed this
Thank you.
Those round holes make me wonder if they're for horizontal rods. Maybe for curtains that can be pushed aside to reveal something, or maybe poles for banners. They look deep enough and wide enough to hold something that could take some weight, so maybe something more substantial than cloth hung from them.
Unlikely cloth as they were not farmers. More like hides if your idea is correct.
@@oakstrong1 Good point. Although fiber arts might be older than we can prove, since both cloth and looms would rot over time, the anthropomorphic pillars did show fox pelt loincloths.
I guess it was a map where to hunt the animals and best ways to do so with tools, etc.
Modern people often over interpret that ancient pictures show rituals. What we forget is that life back then was a struggle for efficiency. The easier you survive the better. People were thinking practical. Ancient Pictures show how to be efficient and how to master life. It's not all religious.
But that view could be argued as a modern view as it doesm't take into account that people may have thought that everything was sacred, which is a view held by may scholars, things were done deliberatley, and if they're sacred, there would be ritual, and if there is ritual, there would be myth.
@@Crecganford your right, many scholars believe that people of ancient times thought that everything was sacred. That belief comes from the early days of archeology when western archeologists were themselves deeply biased towards religion. And it's a very sticky belief.
Let's Go!
The H may be a T pillar with base, representing support, strength, someone who is in charge of the thing...
Pillar 22: The snakes are an early form of the vishap, associated with water in rivers and canals.
I have only started watching but I can't help myself - I HAVE to comment: I'm SO glad you got to go there - I saw you in the Ancient Architects video first and I was - "wait a minute I know him" and I want to thank you for something else even before watching the rest: THANK YOU for not using AI art on this one - I love your channel but I had stopped watching because I couldn't stomach the AI. I know images from myths and ancient civilizations are scarce, but AI looks SO weird! (not to mention the environmental impact and their databanks stealing from actual artists) 🙏
30:15 ... The position of the hands on the pillar (groin area) is very similar to how the statues on easter island have their hands positioned (the larger, more complete statues).
Is there a deeper meaning to this?
Is there a theory that the symbols may represent clans? I doubt there will ever be much certainty to any social conclusions from the sites but perhaps if there was a pattern to the symbols found in the dwelling, maybe that would suggest clan symbology?
Something like this crossed my mind, with certain enclosures having more of a particualr animal type than others, and so were they for different sets of people? We may never know, but it is an interesting thought.
It was a hunting camp (Tent City) at the base of the Euphrates river. The Hunting/Proving Grounds of Assyrian Royalty.
This is just a stab in the dark. With little to no basis, other than the geographical location of these sites.
I like to keep things simple. The dead animals, the dangerous predators, the variety of animals, a few selections of snakes and vultures. This is the animal landscape. The dangerous animal landscape. Some are food that will feed many. Some must be killed in large numbers to feed a community. I would say it is about life and community.
On the other hand, maybe it’s a memorial for those killed by the dangerous animals. The ones they went after and brought back to the community so everyone could live and a representation of the animal they were hunting and killed the one being memorialized.
Maybe John is right and these are where stories were told and acted out. That is a simple explanation for me.
It’s tradition in Britain to smear blood on the face of a man on his first hunt, at least in the ‘landed classes’ (the royals do it to this day).
You should get a sponsorship from Big Tea. :o)