Tesla Model S P85D with slow supercharging
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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I also have a 2015 P85D with (in my opinion) almost no degredation (55 000 km). I hardly Supercharge, but when I do the charge nerf has destroyed the car as a family trip car. I live close by you Bjørn, you're welcome to come scan/test it if you want.
how long are this family trips? most people doesnt ride 600+km on a day include wife and kids.
@@_baumi_ I'm on original MCU1, but don't think it's possible to root those cars anymore. At least I don't know about anyone capable of doing it.
@@InternetDude oh really 🙄
what is nerf?
Yup, this is basically exactly the charging curve/speed I now get on my 2015 85d. My deg is luckily only about 5%. I basically no longer use it for journeys beyond the range of the vehicle as it takes too long to supercharge nowadays. Was angry a few years ago when they nurfed it, but now resigned there is nothing I can do about it.
You maybe can do something…… ask Emobility-Driving Solutions in Weimar/DE
It's a nice trick to "motivate" you to buy a new Tesla 😉
You can have the older software version reinstalled by third party companies. That makes you get the old speed back. Just make sure never to install any updates afterwards.
Hi Bjørn, please get in touch with the teslalogger guys. We have more than 4500 recorded charging sessions that prove that all 85 packs are affected. Independent of Model and Miles and age.
yes every lithium battery gets a higher internal resistance after a number of charges and discharges and then very fast charging is no longer possible, tesla ensures that the speed is adjusted so that the battery remains safe and does not degrade even harder so that it can be used for a long time! if they throw the old SC charging speed back on, there is no guarantee of rapid degradation or heat internal shorting of individual cells.For a Lithium accu standarts You can expect a peak of 1C and they all still do with 70 / 80kW peak so it is not that bad for old used lithium batteries that have already suffered quite a bit.
@@JW-urth all 85 packs were reduced, no matter how old or how many cycles they have. A 500.000km 2014 Taxi was treated the same way as a AC-only 50.000km 2015 model.
Thank you. I want to buy an older 85, so I make a note of everything interesting. This truly was.
I bought a high mileage Model S. The advantage is that most of them (not all!) were well sorted and updated during the warranty period. Being on the market for a while now there are 3rd party repairers and 2nd hand / aftermarket parts available. The car itself is a well build timeless classic design.
@@moestrei I wish I knew this before, so, I could have saved a lot and bought smaller battery. Saying 85 everywhere but having a capacity of 75 and with nerfed speed is heart broken to know after bought a used 85.
That's one interesting thing with EVs and their miles. Sounds like there should be two meters, one for the car and one for the battery.
There are, you can read the two meters out with Scan My Tesla.
My 2014 P85 supercharged a lot slower than this. I have only owned it for about seven months and I never got the battery down to 2% in my time but from 10% it would start at around 60 KW and pretty quickly drop to about 40 KW. By the time it approached 80% it would be down to 20 KW. The battery recently failed completely and the car is currently at the service center waiting to have a new battery installed. Lucky for me this happened with one year left on the warranty. It will be interesting to see how it performs with the new battery but I am going to baby the new battery so it will hopefully last a long time. That means supercharging is going to be rare and I plan on only charging it to 70-75% on a daily basis.
this is pretty scary to me to read - it means it is a lottery game to buy a second hand Tesla. I currently own a Lexus 450h from 2011 which I bough second hand 3 years ago. According to the previous owner he never actually had anything fail. And so far I had not a single failure either, not even a xenon light (which by now should at the end of their useful life). It has only 143’000 km which is not a lot for this age.
unfortunately you will get a reconditioned battery that has no more than 10% degradation. if you want high speeds on the super charger, you will first have to drive / preheat the battery well warm 35 to 40 degrees. I say charging AC with 7kW to 76% and charging again from 25%, if you are going to empty the battery below 20% then this is not a problem, just take it easy with your right foot! This will improve the battery life as well as the battery is cold, slowly accelerate or always use the battery at temperatures below 15 degrees. good luck
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 Thanks for the info and tips. I also read somewhere else that it's most likely going to be a refurbished battery but at least it should still be an upgrade from what it had. Btw. the mentioned charging speeds were after driving 100+ km on the motorway so the battery should be warm enough for supercharging by then. I just think the battery was at the end of its life. It had done about 273.000 km and I don't know exactly how the previous owners treated it. I believe they usually charged to 90% and to 100% for longer trips and I suspect they drove it almost flat on several occasions. They also told me that they had taken some trips from Denmark to Southern Europe in the summer which naturally involves a lot of supercharging and hot temperatures during these trips.
@@ThorRavnsborg I hope Tesla will come back with fresh new batteries for the first model S / X and then 90kWh packs for a price of 10,000 to 15000 Euro. I will buy one of those when my 85 kWh battery has gone really bad (now 250K kilometers and quiet 67kWh usable).
The only reason for them to do this is to protect against either further degradation or fire. My guess is the early chemistry cells has dendrite formation issues with age which can cause a short in the cells... By limiting fast charging it will drastically reduce dendrite formation as its a function of rate of charge/discharge.
Really. Then Tesla is supposed to recall for such things and not remove features from the car without informing.
I have a S85, and hold MY reservation and now, with this unprofessional and unethical behaviour by Tesla, I am seriously considering Ionic 5 or walk away from Tesla in future.
Bjorn, I also have a P85D from 2015 with 116k km with 3400 DC fast charging and plus 20k AC charging and my pack has 75.2 Nominal. That is no way normal no matter what tesla says.
Perhaps the BMS did not have the opportunity to measure the capacity for a long time. You need to get the 0% (using the cabin heater) and then charge to 100%. This way the BMS can re-measure the capacity. Another explanation would be that you actually have a 90kWh pack.
@@moestrei Hi. My answer was regarding the slow charging speed. Recently I discharge the car until 5km and then charged back to 100% on AC and the 75,2 still remain. I already tap in the can and check the reported with scan my tesla.
@@liviomanuelcerqueira Thank you for clarification. Tesla cars are great but Tesla politics are questionable.
I see the cell min/avg/max are very low for 98% in your Scan My Tesla. I have one of the earliest 2014 P85Ds with an original pack, no nerfed Supercharging, and my cell voltages are around ~4.20 when I’m close to 100%. Something is definitely up with that pack!
My MS P85D with 96 756 km on the odometer has nominal full pack of 77,2 kWh in Scan my tesla. DC charge total of 2455 kWh. The original nominal full pack must have been higher than this from start. The batteri pack has not been replaced. The degradation you show must be even higher on your test car based on this data.
My 2015 90D only has 74.5 kwh nominal right now (using scan my tesla). 50,000 miles but I have a refurbished battery that was changed at 26k miles. However, it supercharges much faster than the older 85 packs. It keeps 100 kw up to around 40% SOC
thank you for for this video, it awnsered a lot of questions for me about the current charging speeds for an older tesla model s. i get that the majority of people might see the charging speed as a disadvantage, but seriously? you went from ~2% to 68% in around 45 minutes, i'd still consider that very impressive and usable.
As a owner of one of Europes First P85+, i can confirm that the Supercharger speed is correct. I get a little higher charging speed when i supercharge, but as we say in norway "It's free, so who care" xD
How long would it take to do 1000km in one of these nerfed cars?
what does nerfed mean?
Bjorn, the P85D that you set the record in 5 years ago was able to pull 77.5 kwh in that run. Double check your video and stats at the end to confirm. Interestingly, this car only shows 378 kw max discharge (at 97% SOC) which is very significant drop from peak power output when it was new.
My 2015 85D is charging exactly the same :-/. Tested yesterday at the brand new V3 Supercharger in Zusmarshausen, Gernany.
@Lukas Scherenschleifer Yes, that’s how technology should be: become cheaper over years. VW has managed to propose EV with properties similar to Tesla from 2015 except acceleration, smartphone app and flawless OTA updates. Let ID mature and we will have a real comparison.
@Lukas Scherenschleifer Catastrophe ? Lets compare the charge rate of a 6 year old VW EV with this 6 year old Tesla. Lets compare any new model Tesla with......anybody (in charging km/min). Also: Tesla batteries have proven to last a very long time (over 300.000km here and 12% degr.), all others still have to proof they can do the same. I bet there will be surprises.....
@Lukas Scherenschleifer He is talking about 2015 model with old battery. Still charging faster than 2015 VW if you want co comprare something relevant.Have no idea what are you comparing with. Do it with Tesla model 3/Y 2021.
One might suspect a ploy to back away from the Free Unlimited deal, making it painful to use.
It has nothing to do with free supercharging. The reason for Tesla to reduce the speed is to avoid too many battery warranty cases.
The charging speed was nerfed to reduce the risk of battery fires. The nerf occurred after there were three cases of batteries catching on fire shortly after the cars were charged. This happened 2-3 years ago and involved only 85kWh models. So far, the nerf has worked because there hasn't been any more reported fires after charging.
@@bjornnyland what do you think about that? Tesla has sold a product, which has a certain performance. This performance is unfortunately to much in the long run, so Tesla reduces this performance _after_ the product is sold. The reductions is not notified, owners are not given any compensation. The product usefullnes is critically hampered. Charging speed, 0-80% in X minutes was a salespitch they used. Who does actually own the car after sales?
@@MiesvanderLippe it wouldnt be different on ionity because it is the car that chooses what charging speed it wants to get at a certain percentage
@@Neurocracy Every software update changes the vehicle. I got Autopilot lane change added. Big improvement......for free. But yes, your car is in Elon's hands.....
The battery sticker is on the side of the battery, and you can see it through the rim of the front wheel. If I remember correctly it`s the front right side
Yes but they do fall off (like on mine). I have not heard of any other way to identify your pack version.
Hello. I own the same P85D as you. I think it's a very nice car. Thank you for the very meaningful video. From the Millennium Falcon in Japan.
Here are my results in three consecutive charges of a warm battery from my 2015 S85 with 220,000+ km and mostly supercharging (first number is percentage, secomd is kW):
15% 80kw, 17% 77kw, 20% 74 kW, 22% 72kw, 25% 71kw, 30% 68, 36-65, 39-63, 42-60, 47-56, 50-53, 56-49, 60-44, 65-40, 70-37, 75-33, 80-30
6-114, 7-116, 8-116, 9-114, 10-110, 11-107, 12-104, 13-102, 14-100, 15-96, 16-94, 17-92, 18-90, 19-88, 20-86, 21-85, 22-84, 23-82, 24-80, 25-80, 26-78, 27-76, 28-74, 29-73, 30-72, 31-70, 32-69, 33-68, 34-66, 35-65, 36-64, 37-62, 38-62, 39-61, 40-60, 41-59, 42-58, 43-57, 44-56, 45-55, 46-53, 47-52, 48-52, 49-51, 50-49,
6-127, 7-118, 8-112, 9-107, 10-104, 11-100, 12-98, 13-95, 14-94, 15-92, 16-90, 17-88, 18-86, 19-85, 20-84, 21-82, 22-81, 23-80, 24-79, 25-78, 26-76, 27-75, 28-74, 29-72, 30-72, 31-70, 32-69, 33-68, 34-67, 35-66, 36-64, 37-64, 38-62, 39-62, 40-61, 41-60, 42-58, 43-57, 44-56, 45-54, 46-54, 47-52, 48-51, 49-50, 50-49, 51-48, 52-47, 53-46, 54-45, 55-44, 56-44, 57-42, 58-42, 59-41, 60-40, 61-39, 62-38, 63-38, 64-37, 65-36, 66-36, 67-35, 68-34, 69-34, 70-34, 71-32, 72-32, 73-32, 74-30, 75-30, 76-30, 77-28
Same speed of mine s85 219.000km (battery changed 5months ago under warranty I think refurbished) Tesla said because previously owner used too much Supercharger…
I had an early plasma TV that cost 3 times what a recent, larger, higher resolution LED costs. But I got to use it when it was the new thing. Bleeding edge tech is just this way. On the plus side, this car still has resale value!
On some Model S charging speed deterioates because one of the coolant pumps have failed. When charging both pumps should run which you can hear / feel when removing the frunk tub.
Interesting. Can you make a video on how to save batterylive for newbies? How to avoid degration? When to sell an EV? Etc thanks
You can never avoid degration, it is inevitable. But to keep the degration in minimum, don't charge your car to 100% or drain it close to 0%. Battery likes alot around 50% when staying idle. Some other cars(not Tesla) have a buffer at top of the battery, meaning even you are charging it to 100%, the true state of charge is maybe 95%.
@@mikaelpettersson5916 All modern ev have top and bottom buffers.
Don't charge or discharge the EV with too high numbers. For instance, charging the car with 3kw AC is heaven for any EV. Also don't hammer the EV with cold battery, or generally don't discharge it too aggressively. A German lithium-ion expert Holger Laudeley
has a Model S and X 2015 that have only 1% deg. Because he always slow charges and drives with a hat. (in Laudecrouse mode)
@@kasmopaya2676 they drive with a hat ???
Also, you meant ludicrous mode
@@theproffessional9 Driving with a hat -> elderly people driving slowly like James may
Holger Laudeley -> will drive his Model S plaid+ in laudecrouse mode -> meaning behind trucks for maximum efficiency and battery SOH. (no joke)
Hi, I have a similar model/year and see the same problem. Tesla want DKK 1400 just to investigate the problem even though they must know what they changed in the software. The Danish "ladegruppen" has taken legal action against Tesla (I did not join the group). But I like to check my car. What app and ODB adapter do you use?
My 2013 P85+ with 215k km with original pack has around the same capacity and charging speed as this one. It has done less DC charge as this one. It’s annoying indeed
so you have to super charge every day for longer 300+km trips since this lower speed is annoying?
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 I don’t get what you mean, but I do need to supercharge for 300+km trips. When I drive about 1100km, I charge around 4-5 times.
Luckily trips that are more than 300km don’t happen often at all.
@@maxencesimonart4302
so it is rare that you drive more than 300km and have to charge at the super charger, then that extra time on the SC is not a daily big problem and your tesla does what it has to do for you 99.9% of the time .
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 yes, but on trips, it is annoying. For 1100km, it takes 14 hours
My 2014 S85 at best charges SoC + KW = 105 +/-
So seems that the charing in this video is normal after nerf bat.
I think the biggest problem is for people complaining about charging speeds on theese nerfed cars is SoC and battery temp. Even when you navigate to SuC and preheating starts, and it has reached its preheating temp. It is still not hot enough for best chargning speeds.
I love that my Tesla now charges slower so that I can spend more time in my Tesla and appreciate how great Tesla is. Tesla is great. I love Tesla. Anything Tesla does is a divine act of god. I wish it would charge even slower so I can appreciate my Tesla even more. Whenever the car gets worse after a software update, I tell myself how lucky I am and how I don't deserve this. I love that supercharger rates and range has degraded so much. To make things even better after a software update, my Bluetooth got messed up and I love it. Tesla is so great. I love Tesla so much :)
Can you name a car brand that the battery of the electric car simply continues to charge with high currents after an x number of fast charges / time? brands that do this quickly get complaints about too high degradation(Tesla batteries generally do not have much degradation ... 10% after 7 years and more than 200K km, so you miss a small 50km range on your total) and the batteries therefore last less long, which is not really sustainable! they also take a very big risk with safety, lithium battery cells have their limits and you have to respect them! Tesla cannot do anything about that and no car brand or battery manufacturer in the year 2021!
I think the culprit is that the car was sitting for very long time with full battery.
That could also cause such high degradation.
Can you test more the model 3 SR+ facelift?
Maybe an charging test
If Tesla doesn’t do anything about “old cars”, the depreciation of those cars will be amazing
In daily use, charging is done at night at home or at a public pole, so that often people do not use the Tesla SC.As a battery gets older you may want to charge at high speeds, but then you will really start a degratstie effect , the resistance will then increase faster and the cooling can no longer handle it. I think it's very good, safe and smart what tesla does with the charging speeds .... this way these batteries and cars can run for years without having to replace the battery. Every battery has this and Porsche / Audi also notice that too much degradation occurs due to the high charging speed ..... the new large cells from Tesla have 5x less resistance and so they last longer and you will after a number of years can charge with higher currents because no extra heat is built up due to the lower internal resistance, and therefore less loss in resistance / heat during discharge, so more usable energy that you get from the battery. Let Tesla do what they are good at, those people who know very well what to do and what not to do in the field of batteries!
That SC speed seems to be the new normal for 85 packs after the mid 2019 software update changes.
But that pack has limited capacity or has been at least temporarily capped. Capped meaning the BMS isn’t allowing the bricks in the pack to charge all the way to 4.2V. There is some data out there as to why this happens, and it maybe fixed with future software or need the pack replaced. Use scan my Tesla to see what the cell voltages are at 98% SOC. Also check the cell imbalance.
Based on the odometer and total charged it would mean 266 Wh/km so it seems it's still the original battery...
Nice informational video as usual.
Do you know if ABRP has this calculation for charging speed in their app. I'm planning on a 5,000 mile trip next month in my 2013 S 85.
You can edit each charging stop and set the anticipated rate in kW and the desired ending SoC. For instance, "Charge to 90% at 35kW" and it will calculate the charging time from that. You can set capacity degradation in one place but not charging speed degradation.
What is the power number from that car? In Portugal on the car registration document is says 772cv, which is clearly wrong. I would like to know what happens in other countries.
Please check the climate system. If is improperly maintained-low refrigerant or bad maintenance-then you will see low SC speed.
I like the way how you trace down an issue. 👍😉 Well done. It looks like many p 85 d seem to have this kind of issue. It would be intersting to know which NMC technology was used for this pack.
NMC???? NCA!
Not sure if this model used already the NCAl technology
Can not confirm this on my p85d from april 2015. I still got over 100kw till 10%. Its not super fast, but still a lot better then this here. It is slower then 2 years ago, but it makes 5min difference on 30min charging...
Maybe this car was often charged to 100% SOC and kept at 100%SOC? Who knows.
Elon Musk to his most dedicated followers: "Too bad SUCKERS!!" LOL
Hi! I have a Model S 85 December 2014 AP1 original pack. In Scan my Tesla it says it as 70,5 kwh Full pack.
As I understand you said that my car as new had a 73kwh. So my 10 years old 200000km car as a 4% degradation?
Is it technically possible to replace the 85 battery by a 90 or even a 100 pack ?
It is possible to replace the 85-pack with a 90-pack, but not a 100-pack due to design difference. Go watch gruber-motor and you will get a in depth explanation
TSK.ua made a successful attempt to transplant 100 kW but they had to replace most of the car :) made no sense...
@@KarzanMamle but Tesla has a new part number which is a modified 100-pack. It has 85 kWh but at 350V, which means they are taking out 2 modules.
Shouldn't Tesla P85D have 85 kwh battery pack nominal?
At least I can see I am not alone :-(
Mine P85D 2015 with 60k km is exactly same :-(
I keept very long soft 2017 just half year ago migrated to 2020...and since than range go down and charging speed reduced significantly.
In past when I charged over Chademo, I could het stable 45kw till at least 90% (before I did not tried on SuC)
Now I tried few times on SuC, tried with CCS2, Chademo - it is same. With 50% battery capacity it drops to about 37KW.
I only wonder if Tesla did it to protect battery (from degradation), did it for safety reason, or to "convince" me to buy a new Tesla (like e.g. Apple do).
Certainly this is software dependent and mostly affect 85 battery pack (not sure if other as well - rather not). Nothing to do with frequent DC charging, nor with car usage.
Hello Bjorn, regarding the battery age/mileage on this vehicle, I did a simple calculation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is the total discharge amount of approx 40MWh connected to the battery, or to the car? If it is just the battery related number, then I have simply devided it by some average consumption of such car (21kWh/100km) and that gives us approx 190 000km driven. I have same aged S 85D with just exact same observations, the only difference is I have 120kW on SCh just little bit longer, but crossing 45% this curve is getting a little bit higher, so is more flat compared to mine. So to sum-up, I don't think there's really something wrong with this car at all...
S85 300k km 8yo - 67kWh available.
these cells have been sitting on 4.2V(100% SOC) for a looooong time, that destroys the cells slowly.
Super interesting, I have 2015 P85D with 92000km and I have 75.4kW nominal full pack so about 71 usable. * Only 5157kW charged with DC. My car also tapers hard with DC. But on long trips does better. Eg second supercharger on the same day I seem to taper slower. Not sure why.
The battery degradation and charging speed from my car is about the same. Tesla told me my car is 3% better than fleet average.
What happened to the millennium falcon
Just rented a Tesla Model 3. Drove from San Diego to San Francisco and back in the past couple days and my charging experience has been terrible. The throttling, the wait time, more throttling, charging stations having different speeds in different capacities. Very disappointed. The car is amazing but the overall experiences bad. Until infrastructure is properly built out there’s no way I can purchase one of these
I am interessted to hear from TB's own Model S. Last time he aborted polar circle tour because of slow charging and some other defects. Maybe Tesla reduced charging speed again, so slow charging is now normal.
So random, i recently bought this car!
Hi I have similar experience with my P85D with almost identical km on odometer and same very low charging curve.. it happened in November 2019 I think. you need to be well under 10% SOC to see a over 100KW charge speed that drops fast.... I never abused supercharging.
Nothing communicated by Tesla.. but this curve makes my planned and COVID aborted 2020 trip from Copenhagen to south of France MUCH longer...
Anyone recommending this trip with 3 boys in backseat now ?? I'm really having second thoughts....🙈
that will be 20 hours including 6 charging stops of an average of 40 minutes. an overnight stay somewhere halfway does not hurt. with a fuel car an average of 110kmh over 1600km it would take you a klien 15 hours ..... you do not do that in 1 day. I would just take the time and enjoy traveling and do a game of football or something with the kids every charging stop
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 thanks Gerbrandt. Yes I imagined something like that. Do you know if the ABRP takes into account that this model is *nerfed* in this way?
@@larsdam7533if all goes well, given that they work with real life data from vehicles? so that the sc speed on your model Tesla is screwed down, they would take this into account, but you can also manually adjust a lot of parameters on your car / driving and loading behavior.
Hi Bjørn, is it possible that this car has an Cell Drift? If an EV can not charged to 100% its indecation that this car haven this problem. When the Cell with the highest voltage get to the highest SoC Voltage the complete Pack stopps charging. Because the Cell with the lowest Voltage is not full charged the BMS shows you an SoC about 98% Normaly there is some Balancing in the Battery Pack but this works not when you have an big cell Drift.
How big is the difference between the highest and the lowest cell?
It can be solved by Charged to Full. Drive it as low as possible and charged it again with the lowest speed (6A) at 20 Celsius.
Yes I red that a lot. However some owners report that AC charging terminates before reaching 100% and only DC charging fixed the issue of recalibration. However this is not the problem here.
@@moestrei yes that when the Cells are driftet away. Than you have to less current to charge the Batterie. So you have to do this more than one time. To charge with DC to Full is definently not the best idea. In Germany there is this Guy from T&T E-Mobility his name is Ove and he read out allways the Celldrift we he check the Cars.
@@groepi1972 Im German/Australian and i have watched all the Ove videos. I even bought an E-Cannonball hoodie. But a number of people stated that the slow AC 0-100 charging did not work for them but doing it DC did. Just sharing the info.
@@moestrei Calibration is the wrong term. You want to have the same voltage to all cells. If you can only rebalacing with DC than there its somthing wrong. But first you have to check each cell.
And I think to drive the battery empty the most drive very fast with the car which also not helps.
@@groepi1972 Nein, das siehst Du ganz falsch. There is balancing of the cells to ensure they have all the same voltage. This is important to not overcharge individual cells when approaching 100% or discharge individual cells too low or even reverse their polarity. There is restive balancing which bleeds existing charge into resistors or active balancing which takes charge from the top cells and re-distributes into the bottom cells. The Tesla balances when approaching the 100% which is called Top Balancing. Some people prefer Bottom Balancing. On my converted motorcycle I do active balancing at all times.
Then there is calibrating. This is were the BMS takes samples of different voltages during the charging/discharging process in order to work out what is 0% and what is 100%. As it is more healthy for the battery to operate the vehicle around the 50% mark most owners operate in a 20%-80% window which can cause the BMS's calibration to drift away with time as it can never measure the points below 20% and above 80%. You can then empty to near 0 (best using the heater for the last %) and slowly charge to 100% to give the BMS a lot of measuring points and recalibrate the SOC calculation. Just rewatch Ove's and uncle Bjorn's videos on that matter.
So what I was saying is that sometimes the calibration is so stuffed that with AC charging it simply doesn't let you charge to 100%. But several owners have reported that in that case they DC charged and were able to complete the process this way. I am an electronics engineer and Tesla owner and have converted a motorcycle to electric myself incl. BMS system and solar charging. Now you can believe all the stuff above or not, is your choice. But I rest my case here. Thank You and greetings from Australia, Martin also.
Is it only the 85 that have this ”problem”?
Interesting. My 2015 P85D has done 180k km, about 5% degradation, 33% has been DC charging. I still get around the expected 110 - 120 SoC + charging speed combined (or about 10-15kW more than this car on average). I think the pack on this one is faulty in one way or another. My pack is usually around 40c to get full speed.
How did you measure degradation?
@@bjornnyland ScanMyTesla
@@bjornnyland Nominal full pack at 73,4kWh so it's in gold health, question is what happened to the one in your video? Too long stuck at high SoC?
@Brian Hansen: So you have 69.3kWh minus the 4kWh buffer usable,new usable minus 4kWh buffer was around 77.5kWh so it is around 10% degradation not 5%. you can also make this calculation: 81.5kWh minus 73.4kWh is 8.1kWh= 10%.I think you have calculated with 77.5kWh and 73.4kWh and then you are about 5% but then you have not taken the buffer of 4kWh from the 73.4kWh. From 100% to zero% you will be able to get about 68kWh usable from the battery and about 340km with an average consumption of 200Wh / Km
@@JW-urth I think you are correct
Jesus wept I'd be crying if I had an 85kwh pack and had those stats!
My 75kwh pack has just as good a set of numbers and better charging to boot. I'd be worried they were really 75kwh packs.
77.5kWh usabel from 100% to 0%.
minus zero the 85 pack have 4kWh buffer so 81.5kWh in total.
@@JW-urth On that video there is 67/68kwh usable if you watch. What your talking about would be a brand new battery.
A German UA-camr had find a solution through downgrading the software, this made him capable of getting the original charging speeds
The battery will degrade faster.
@@eruveo to be honest at this point I don't care. Unfortunately we can sew Tesla because of this and due to this limitation the resell value of old model S is much lower. For me cause i travel regularly 400-600 km the time saved is totally wort the money for the downgrade. Maybe if someone here is interested i will make an update in 1- 2 years about how the degeneration is. Now after 265,000 it is 10%. It is a 2013 p85
@@eruveo actually the main issue was the battery caught fire. I think in 2019 3 model s with 85kw batteries caught fire causing Tesla to reduce the charging speed of older batteries for safety.
Could you share a link to the UA-cam video that you refer to? I feel similar to you...i'd rather save the time and take the risk. (2015 S85 which i take from the UK to Holland and France regularly).
How can you downgrade the software? You would have to hack the Linux code??
That was a good leap in battery voltage (313 - 350) when you started supercharging - high internal resistance?
0,38Vdc per series/cel. hi charge amps is the reason
@@JW-urth Still higher than the bump my 75D sees - I know I have fewer cell groups, but it's WAY more than mine sees for a similar current
Voltage drops a lot towards the end. Common for all litium batteries.
Not brought to you by -stormberg ?
Thats about the same as my 2014 S 85.
Does this problem potentially affect all Tesla after some years of usage? I plan to buy a model Y and I expect no such a degradation in charge speed. Am I wrong?
Yes! do you need fast charging in daily use?
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 absolutely no! Just for long trips. But I expect to be able to supercharge after 8+ years of ownership.
@@upiferico super charging will continue to work after 8 years of use, but as a battery gets older and is often discharged / charged, there will be a moment that the battery suffers too much if it is charged with high peaks for a longer period of time and the SC speed will turn down. . I wouldn't worry if you only make a long trip over the super charger once a month or something. 99.9% of the times you use the car, it does what you need to do and most of the charging is done at home slowly and cheaply at night
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 yea, i agree. I'm my case I will be charging it on solar in my house. I think the new battery format will handle better SC. Maybe in 8 years it's still acceptable
I like this kind of video's...
Thanks for again, testing older Tesla´s, my 85D, 2015, 89.000km, is also charging slow after the Tesla update, in Denmark we are actually making a lawsuit against Tesla for lovering the charging speed with an update, witch for some with long traveling make the car unusable, they are going for a compensation of 100.000kr. I am considering joining
a car only becomes unusable when the battery degradation is more than 30% and you get that very fast when the fast charge speeds remain high. therefore tesla screw it back, seems to me a lot safer too.
I just picked up a 2015 P85D two days ago and shoved the supercharger in only to get 53kwh charging. I was a little bit miffed by this.
@Gunfodder Graphics; "only to get 53kwh charging" Do you mean max power 53 kW or a full charge will only be 53 kWh (a 37% battery capacity loss from the original 85 kWh). If charged on AC does it charge to higher capacity? Is battery still in warranty?
Also depends on battery temperature and ratio AC/DC charging history.
@@moestrei I drove for 40 minutes to get to the charger in 10C, dry and sunny with a car that has almost exclusively been home charged, so I'unno :p
@@Foersom_ I mean max charging speed of 53 kW, starting from 30% SoC. But yeah, battery is on warranty for two more years, so I'll have Tesla check it out before the regular warranty runs out next month.
@@ChronoSakuya As i mentioned elsewhere it could be that one of the battery coolant pumps is defect which causes slow charging.
Why does the headline say 35kW when lowest we saw on video was 39kW and average around 59kW or higher? Hard to calculate exactly as timestamps were not shown exactly when the charging started.
The owner claimed max 35 kW.
HI Bjorn. I think testing the charging curve degradation would be very important. Nobody is testing this currently.
I think the most interesting cases are "new" Teslas with 250kw peak charging speed and overall great charging curve. How long do these remain great?
*lord Elon Musk* 😂
Hello Björn.
I didn't hear any noise from the cooling fans in the background, so that would mean that someone reprogrammed the BMS in this car. I have more and more so one feeling that the Tesla-People have no idea about that what they are doing!
Sorry but it's just terrifying that such people are allowed to reprogram our cars.
I don’t know what is wrong with Tesla!! That is just incompetence!
Greetings from Germany
Andy
What does scan my tesla show as degradation?
It's still pretty fast in comparison to my Kona
Lol now that’s saying something
Have you thought about going to weight station weight the Tesla model s P85D
And then see if you can weigh someone’s else’s car and there just might be a surprise for you ?? Just a idear bjorn
🤞🏽🤓
It Will most likely weigh less, because of the lost electrons..
Honestly: Either the pack or part of the BMS is broken.
This is not normal, even for batteries with heavier degradation.
I drive a 85D 2015 Model S myself and my charging is nowhere near as slow as this.
This is a case for the Tesla warranty.
Hi
Is there any difference in speed using ccs or type2?
Type 2 AC uses the Onboard Charger and therefore the power is dependent of the car and the AC-Outlet. Normal speed is from 3,7kW up to 22kW (old Renault Zoe 43kW).
CCS Combo 2 DC uses the Charger in the infrastructure. The EV still limits the charge to preserve the battery but with 800V/900V battery systems, up to 350kW are possible. Normal charging speeds are from 50kW to 170kW I would say. So Type 2 is slower in general.
@@MrKroolboy I am talking about supercharger only. You can either use type 2 or ccs with Tesla S / X. As you said type 2 use AC while ccs goes directly to batery with DC. I suppose there might be some difference in speed but also in degradation over time.
I would be really disappointed if I dished out for a P85D and this is the state the car is in after such a relatively short time of ownership.
Furthermore, this really speaks against the second-hand value of Teslas..
Do you know if there is an electric car that heats the battery during charging when it is cold during the winter?
They pretty much all have the option (except maybe the Leaf?), but it may depend on the specific trim / region it's sold in.
All the Teslas do though, and the latest models have a few methods of managing the battery temperature thanks to the "octovalve"
@@chunkychuck my 2013 UK Leaf has a battery heater but it's only used to stop the pack freezing in winter. It is not used to increase charging speeds.
Hey Bjorn. My theory is that Tesla lowered the charging rate of Tesla’s with free supercharging. The reason is obvious.
Your thoughts?
Completely agree. I don’t think they did it for safety reason but to force us to upgrade. Jerks.
So on other fast chargers it should charge quicker?
"It has nothing to do with free supercharging. The reason for Tesla to reduce the speed is to avoid too many battery warranty cases." - Bjørn Nyland -> i agree with him.
What do you mean that it hasn't been supercharging that much? Maybe not compared to your previous car, but still 30% of the time supercharging. That's a lot of supercharging and maybe the most of it was done when it could charge faster in the old days, which wear more on the battery, which is also why Tesla set the charging speed down later on.
Oh yeah the "great" tesla service center and that they don't find anything wrong "lemon " "good will " teslas favourite .
Polestar
Ohh no
NEIN NEIN NEIN : NEIN
About 70% capacity and Tesla needs to change the battery under warranty. Indeed 14% deg. within specs. for now. But in the 50kWh range, it will be a warranty case. Ninja maths done by the EV ambassador already.
This pack/BMS should be changed, no doubt for me the numbers don't add up.
This was an expensive/premium car at the time and should be treated as one by Tesla.
Costumer care is essential on a premium brand there can't be no exceptions.
More than one hour to 80% is surely out off spec.
You are showing the VIN around the 1 minute mark - maybe you should better pixelize/cover it? Cheers from Berlin.
Why? Its public information
You can read it in the corner of the windscreen.
use allergy medicine please. Antihistamin + nasal spray + eyedrops. No need to suffer.
Try propolis. Natural bie shit. It makes wonder to pollen allergy. Helsekostbutikker har den.
If it only has 100km and it's that old, it sat around a lot. I wonder if the owner had a habit of either letting it sit near 0% or 100% for long periods of time.
100km in 6 years is above the averge, what a car is driven in the nordics. In Sweden for exampel a driver drive in averge 11280 per year, Company cars drive 12960 per year, Norway is about the same. This car has done 16700 averge per year so that not low but 32% above averge.
@@KristoferOlsson Ah, thanks for the insight. I'm from US and average is about 22km a year. Sorry to assume that was "normal" everywhere, lol. Duh.
Not a good commercial for used tesla cars with higher milage.... I didn't expect such a bad charging result for such a expensive car