I have become addicted to senna (just started late this year (the game)) but I have been running youmu's and it is honestly the best item imo. The speed, the extra lethality is so so so useful for senna.
that laning phase on the first/second game analysis is literally how 50% of my games go. adc feeds, doesnt dodge abilities and blames me cuz i dont “support”
Says "Look at this impact! Senna still deals a lot of damage" as she uses one auto attack on naut the entire fight then gets ran down by Trist XD 13:53
I'd love to see the math where Youmuu's does more damage than Eclipse. Even without the passive proc from Eclipse, a simple test in the practice tool would show that Eclipse does about 80-100 more damage on average. Especially when you take into consideration tanks existing. This causes the % Armour pen from the mythic passive to be significantly better. Even if the argument is the movespeed from Youmuu's then you have to consider the movespeed that Eclipse provides not just on proc but from the passive as well. The clips that you used to show that Senna still does alot of damage was also poorly chosen seeing as how majority of the damage came from the Ahri and Jayce. I'm not saying Senna doesn't deal damage (she does) but those clips you were playing while saying it did not demonstrate that.
1. the flat lethality from ghostblade is way better as it improves her Q heal. The point about the mythic passive is less important due to supports usually not getting a bunch of completed items and the movespeed from the passive is on both items as well. Armor pen % vs the 7 Ad is also something to think about if we had to mention the mythic passive. The shield from eclipse is also not something important to senna as she would usually be out of range for the shield to be useful.
@@h4zaya558 1. The lethality improving the Q is minimal between two items. Its about an extra 10hp heal. 2. You will usually get at least 2 items (Umbral and Mythic) providing you with the 4% Amour pen at least. In comparison, this build requires you to complete LDR for the armour pen which is hard to build as a support as you said. 3. What do you mean by the 7AD is something to think about? The % Armour pen is better every time for Senna. 4. I never mentioned the shield because it isn't that useful. However the rest of the item is simply better. I tested it in the practice tool prior to the Crit buff. You're welcome to test it out yourself as well. Make sure you use 2 dummies. One that has the same stats as a tank would. Another that has the stats of a mage or enemy ADC. Can you show me with numbers where the Youmuu's does more damage than Eclipse.
1. The healing improvement is +12 with youmuu sure but it's +31 if you have the 100 stacks when you just have your mythic and umbral glaive and it goes up to +16 and +35 if you're full build thx to the bonus attack per item from youmuu. (Don't tell me the lethality bonus only last 3 seconds at the start of a fight, If as a senna you don't use your Qspell the first 3 seconds in a fight what are you even doing ? Also, heals work wonders outside of fight that way) 2. Have to disagree about getting 2 items most of the time, senna is a support who produces quite a lot of gold and since umbral glaive doesn't cost a lot, you usually have 3 items and are building the 4th at the end of a regular game. LDR is not that hard to make from my experience. 3. Did you know that % armor pen has a soft cap ? So if you're not struggling like me to build LDR most of the time when you need it, then you already have 30% into late game and the +4% from each item with eclipse is reduced meaning that at full build instead of having 42% total, you only get 38% (so only 8% from the eclipse). In comparison Youmuu will always give you your 21AD + up to 18 lethality when stacked. And 18 lethality makes more damage than 8% armor pen in almost every case scenario. 4. Only benefit with eclipse is the passive when you hit 2 time in quick succession, but Idefinitely not the stats it gives. And i think Youmuu makes up for it with the movement speed it gives which can prove being really useful.
@@nerekan2159 i'd say that the movespeed is the only factor that could be discussed. However, ghostblade does have the active item that also gives movespeed so thats more of a flavour thing. The "burst" from eclipse is not even worth it imo, 12 sec cd (without item haste) for 3% max hp phys dmg is not even that good
@@nerekan2159 1. You're saying that at full build, late game, the difference is less than 50hp. That's less than an auto from an adc and provides no real benefit. Senna isn't played for her heals. She's played for her damage. (If you're playing Senna for the heals, what are you even doing? Just play Soraka.) 2. If you look at any high elo Senna player, the only games they get 3-4 items in are those where they're stomping early or games that last 35+ minutes. So for 30-40 minutes, you will be without the necessary armour pen against enemies that already have atleast 3 items because they get to farm minions. This is also my experience playing the champion over 500 games. What experience do you have on the champion in that case where you make more gold on Senna that Challenger players? 3. Did you know that Lethality scales off of level? So you only get the full effect of lethality at level 18. The %Armour Pen on the other hand scales based on the enemies stats throughout the game (essentially). Even with the soft cap on Armour pen, you would still want it more than the lethality since the penetration provides more damage later on per item slot. Other champions do this as well. eg. Pantheon with cleaver(armour reduction) or grudge(%pen) alongside his passive on the ult giving 30% armour pen at lvl 16. Evelynn building Void Staff despite her w providing %MR reduction. 4. My original comment says that even without the two proc passive, Eclipse will do slightly more damage than Youmuu's. This can be checked in practice tool for yourself.
legit when the new youmus came out i thought it was great for senna. She is one of my main supports so i tried it out and played with some builds till i found the one i liked.
And here I was thinking eclipse was nice because it lets me make trades safely on senna, always thought it was more about getting the shield to absorb a counter attack
Youmuu's active gives more MS than Eclipse both to go in and to get out (lasts a full six seconds). The shield on Eclipse is halved for being ranged, so it's really not that useful. In my opinion Eclipse would be the best item for her if it wasn't for the massive nerfs the item imposes on ranged champions. Damage, base shield and shield scaling are all halved, while cooldown is doubled.
I love the ironic timing at 3:55 going from "some people go for approach velocity but that's not good" to "you always go boots of swiftness, it's your first and best line of defense". So then why is approach velocity bad?! Yes, I run inspiration secondary, and will continue to do so because movement speed IS the first and best line of defense (and offense).
Why no muramana? No BC+eclipse? If I am building eclipse I might as well throw in BC for the stacking and MS. Tear first buy for mana in lane and cheapest 100bonus AD later...
Eclipse has been bad on senna for a while now, when kraken used to be a mythic it outdamaged eclipse by a landslide because by the time you proc 1 eclipse passive you would of proced 3-4 kraken passive hits. IDK why people stuck with eclipse for so long, prob due to people always sticking so close to meta builds without actually doing their own tests to see what build preforms better for you. In Senna Mains subreddit most people agree that ever since youmuu's became a mythic it has almost immediately become Senna's best mythic. It gives amazing damage, all the stats she wants, and a lot of movement speed to kite well as positioning on senna is EVERYTHING. I love senna she is my most favorite champion in the game for so many reasons. One of these reasons is her amazing build versatility, she can pretty much run any item, and run it well. She used to go BoRK Into Solari for a tanky damage dealer that counters tanks very well while also healing and shielding allies from assassins. I personally love playing her as a healer damage support with umbral glaive into moonstone, then either lethality items, utility items, or support items for the final slots. She still does amazing damage, while also being able to give beefy healing to your team. Love this champion
people always ignore how much rune and item diversity she has, she can build like 70% of all items effectively, and works with almost every rune page, and with EVERY sub page
Hello Summoner. Lethality is most effective when the enemy has not much Armor. Armor Penetration is most effective when the enemy has a lot of Armor. So it is better to buy Lethality Items in the early game and to start buying Armor Penetration in the mid game (in my experience, most players buy Armor Penetration as a 3rd legendary Item, for example Lord Dominik's Regard).
lethality is a flat amount of armor penetration like 14 and armor penetration does a percentage which can be a lot of armor pen against tanks of very little against squishys
Lethality is flat armor penetration that scales with levels. Armor penetration can also be bought in percentage (like 35% Armor Penetration) which is better against high armor targets.
@@tovi3280flat armor pen is not the same as lethality tho. lethality gives an amount of flat armor pen that scales with levels, for example 10 lethality give 6 flat armor pen at lvl 1 while giving 10 flat armor pen at lvl 18
he explained it well, but as someone who has like a million points across 2 accounts, i must say i have some counterpoints. in the beginning he said ,,youumuus always deals more damage than eclipse'' and than he said ,,damage isnt all you need'' and he completely ignored the part where eclipse passive gives shield and ms, making her kiting even better, and giving her a shield so she DOESNT need to go any health and can use cut down even more efficiently. youumuus is great because it gives on demand movepseed, but its not the only item you should build. also he completely ignored the build route with navori/rageblade, which is stupid as hell, because its amazing against champs that you can kite, if you are facing things like cho, sett, garen, darius, that build does wonders, and since in the newest patch her crit penalty was removed, infinity is now also a viable item, even tho its a statstick mythic, which isnt considered the best, it makes you do DAMN amounts of damage, being able to 2 shot squishies and shred tanks. on top of that, in terms of runes, bone plating and revitalize are good against enemy bot lane that can assassinate (pyke, blitz, draven, trist), against lanes that just poke, taste of blood with ingenious is just better, giving you infinite uptime on umbral, over 15s reduction on youumuus cd, you also have sweepers active 24/7 making you amazing in jungle and objective control.\ TLDR: senna works with like 70% of all items in game, and with almost every secondary tree, pick the one suited for your lobby and you will improve
love how he describes Senna in the fights as some OP burst goddess but what we see is some poke at best xD Also her healing can be compared to Sona's W in amount, just on long CD, and it's almost always better to use it for poke and souls than target your ADC - this is also why she's good paired with melee tanky champs, because when they jump on an enemy, she gets to Q both ally and enemy for max effect. Her E is one of the most useless abilities in laning, but I think only because allies don't really make use of it, it's also her only speedup however little it may be. R is used for getting easy assists and occasional KS xD
Watch any pro players gameplay of senna, healing is only done either when the ally is about to die or when in trajectory of an enemy player, sennas late game job is to be a sudo-damage dealer. If you wanted a healer you could play a character that does this exact thing
Because it is, have you ever played the champ ? That's one of the reason why senna works well with "melee" champions (or nilah as an adc for example) because they can go in and be in the trajectory of the spell anyway. But as a senna, having to heal your ally only means you're not stacking and your late game will be weaker.
Could you like make your own videos and not have a not understandable random french guy voice over 60% of it? If i wanted to listen to not understandable random french guy i'd be watching not understandable random french guys videos you know
Could you like make your own videos and not have a not understandable random french guy voice over 60% of it? If i wanted to listen to not understandable random french guy i'd be watching not understandable random french guys videos you know
Let's take a moment to appreciate how great "Armor Penetration" sounds in that accent.
... unless you speak French of course 😅
Ahma
@@theraytech54Lè Penétracion
Lord dominique
Aרmoר penetרation
I have become addicted to senna (just started late this year (the game)) but I have been running youmu's and it is honestly the best item imo. The speed, the extra lethality is so so so useful for senna.
Now imagine how good this video would've been if he was a Fiora one trick
This was as good a guide for senna as it was a guide for perma banning nautilus
that laning phase on the first/second game analysis is literally how 50% of my games go. adc feeds, doesnt dodge abilities and blames me cuz i dont “support”
Says "Look at this impact! Senna still deals a lot of damage" as she uses one auto attack on naut the entire fight then gets ran down by Trist XD 13:53
Yeah. I've wanted to write that too. Like... Dude wtf? Focus tank and enemu adc literally burst you in 3-4 shots.
I'd love to see the math where Youmuu's does more damage than Eclipse. Even without the passive proc from Eclipse, a simple test in the practice tool would show that Eclipse does about 80-100 more damage on average. Especially when you take into consideration tanks existing. This causes the % Armour pen from the mythic passive to be significantly better. Even if the argument is the movespeed from Youmuu's then you have to consider the movespeed that Eclipse provides not just on proc but from the passive as well.
The clips that you used to show that Senna still does alot of damage was also poorly chosen seeing as how majority of the damage came from the Ahri and Jayce.
I'm not saying Senna doesn't deal damage (she does) but those clips you were playing while saying it did not demonstrate that.
1. the flat lethality from ghostblade is way better as it improves her Q heal. The point about the mythic passive is less important due to supports usually not getting a bunch of completed items and the movespeed from the passive is on both items as well. Armor pen % vs the 7 Ad is also something to think about if we had to mention the mythic passive. The shield from eclipse is also not something important to senna as she would usually be out of range for the shield to be useful.
@@h4zaya558 1. The lethality improving the Q is minimal between two items. Its about an extra 10hp heal.
2. You will usually get at least 2 items (Umbral and Mythic) providing you with the 4% Amour pen at least. In comparison, this build requires you to complete LDR for the armour pen which is hard to build as a support as you said.
3. What do you mean by the 7AD is something to think about? The % Armour pen is better every time for Senna.
4. I never mentioned the shield because it isn't that useful. However the rest of the item is simply better.
I tested it in the practice tool prior to the Crit buff. You're welcome to test it out yourself as well. Make sure you use 2 dummies. One that has the same stats as a tank would. Another that has the stats of a mage or enemy ADC. Can you show me with numbers where the Youmuu's does more damage than Eclipse.
1. The healing improvement is +12 with youmuu sure but it's +31 if you have the 100 stacks when you just have your mythic and umbral glaive and it goes up to +16 and +35 if you're full build thx to the bonus attack per item from youmuu. (Don't tell me the lethality bonus only last 3 seconds at the start of a fight, If as a senna you don't use your Qspell the first 3 seconds in a fight what are you even doing ? Also, heals work wonders outside of fight that way)
2. Have to disagree about getting 2 items most of the time, senna is a support who produces quite a lot of gold and since umbral glaive doesn't cost a lot, you usually have 3 items and are building the 4th at the end of a regular game. LDR is not that hard to make from my experience.
3. Did you know that % armor pen has a soft cap ? So if you're not struggling like me to build LDR most of the time when you need it, then you already have 30% into late game and the +4% from each item with eclipse is reduced meaning that at full build instead of having 42% total, you only get 38% (so only 8% from the eclipse). In comparison Youmuu will always give you your 21AD + up to 18 lethality when stacked. And 18 lethality makes more damage than 8% armor pen in almost every case scenario.
4. Only benefit with eclipse is the passive when you hit 2 time in quick succession, but Idefinitely not the stats it gives. And i think Youmuu makes up for it with the movement speed it gives which can prove being really useful.
@@nerekan2159 i'd say that the movespeed is the only factor that could be discussed. However, ghostblade does have the active item that also gives movespeed so thats more of a flavour thing. The "burst" from eclipse is not even worth it imo, 12 sec cd (without item haste) for 3% max hp phys dmg is not even that good
@@nerekan2159
1. You're saying that at full build, late game, the difference is less than 50hp. That's less than an auto from an adc and provides no real benefit. Senna isn't played for her heals. She's played for her damage. (If you're playing Senna for the heals, what are you even doing? Just play Soraka.)
2. If you look at any high elo Senna player, the only games they get 3-4 items in are those where they're stomping early or games that last 35+ minutes. So for 30-40 minutes, you will be without the necessary armour pen against enemies that already have atleast 3 items because they get to farm minions. This is also my experience playing the champion over 500 games. What experience do you have on the champion in that case where you make more gold on Senna that Challenger players?
3. Did you know that Lethality scales off of level? So you only get the full effect of lethality at level 18. The %Armour Pen on the other hand scales based on the enemies stats throughout the game (essentially).
Even with the soft cap on Armour pen, you would still want it more than the lethality since the penetration provides more damage later on per item slot. Other champions do this as well. eg. Pantheon with cleaver(armour reduction) or grudge(%pen) alongside his passive on the ult giving 30% armour pen at lvl 16.
Evelynn building Void Staff despite her w providing %MR reduction.
4. My original comment says that even without the two proc passive, Eclipse will do slightly more damage than Youmuu's. This can be checked in practice tool for yourself.
legit when the new youmus came out i thought it was great for senna. She is one of my main supports so i tried it out and played with some builds till i found the one i liked.
And here I was thinking eclipse was nice because it lets me make trades safely on senna, always thought it was more about getting the shield to absorb a counter attack
yes i think its not a bad choice at all but it shouldn’t be ur first one.
Youmuu's active gives more MS than Eclipse both to go in and to get out (lasts a full six seconds). The shield on Eclipse is halved for being ranged, so it's really not that useful.
In my opinion Eclipse would be the best item for her if it wasn't for the massive nerfs the item imposes on ranged champions. Damage, base shield and shield scaling are all halved, while cooldown is doubled.
I love the ironic timing at 3:55 going from "some people go for approach velocity but that's not good" to "you always go boots of swiftness, it's your first and best line of defense". So then why is approach velocity bad?! Yes, I run inspiration secondary, and will continue to do so because movement speed IS the first and best line of defense (and offense).
I actually. Prefer inspiration with approach since it gives you ALOT of speed for just pressing q
Why no muramana? No BC+eclipse? If I am building eclipse I might as well throw in BC for the stacking and MS. Tear first buy for mana in lane and cheapest 100bonus AD later...
ohno the secrets out T_T there goes my freelo
I prefer domination for that Umbral Glaive zombie ward combo as secondary
with 160 soul senna outrange all turret ... in a good game, you can have it at 30-35 min
you need rfc to do this
@takyre985 5cs/min is possible
@takyre985 souls*
@@Videos-lq9io it is already have more in some games
Eclipse has been bad on senna for a while now, when kraken used to be a mythic it outdamaged eclipse by a landslide because by the time you proc 1 eclipse passive you would of proced 3-4 kraken passive hits. IDK why people stuck with eclipse for so long, prob due to people always sticking so close to meta builds without actually doing their own tests to see what build preforms better for you.
In Senna Mains subreddit most people agree that ever since youmuu's became a mythic it has almost immediately become Senna's best mythic. It gives amazing damage, all the stats she wants, and a lot of movement speed to kite well as positioning on senna is EVERYTHING.
I love senna she is my most favorite champion in the game for so many reasons. One of these reasons is her amazing build versatility, she can pretty much run any item, and run it well. She used to go BoRK Into Solari for a tanky damage dealer that counters tanks very well while also healing and shielding allies from assassins. I personally love playing her as a healer damage support with umbral glaive into moonstone, then either lethality items, utility items, or support items for the final slots. She still does amazing damage, while also being able to give beefy healing to your team. Love this champion
people always ignore how much rune and item diversity she has, she can build like 70% of all items effectively, and works with almost every rune page, and with EVERY sub page
It’s because she’s a support and eclipse gives a lot of extra healing and the mythic passive gives you more armor pen
That's the Frenchiest man I've ever heard
9:14 and ofc he survived
Im a noob. Is lethality another way of saying armor pen?
Hello Summoner. Lethality is most effective when the enemy has not much Armor. Armor Penetration is most effective when the enemy has a lot of Armor. So it is better to buy Lethality Items in the early game and to start buying Armor Penetration in the mid game (in my experience, most players buy Armor Penetration as a 3rd legendary Item, for example Lord Dominik's Regard).
lethality is a flat amount of armor penetration like 14 and armor penetration does a percentage which can be a lot of armor pen against tanks of very little against squishys
Lethality is flat armor penetration that scales with levels. Armor penetration can also be bought in percentage (like 35% Armor Penetration) which is better against high armor targets.
@@roseysz4331this is not tru btw, armour pen refers to both % and flat (lethality)
@@tovi3280flat armor pen is not the same as lethality tho. lethality gives an amount of flat armor pen that scales with levels, for example 10 lethality give 6 flat armor pen at lvl 1 while giving 10 flat armor pen at lvl 18
Tbh no idea how you can lose cait senna lane to that, you can smash you head into ziggs and win.
Look at that impact hes impossible to hit with skillshots but senna still does a lot of damage
Meanwhile senna: literraly does 2 auto attacks and a q
he explained it well, but as someone who has like a million points across 2 accounts, i must say i have some counterpoints.
in the beginning he said ,,youumuus always deals more damage than eclipse'' and than he said ,,damage isnt all you need'' and he completely ignored the part where eclipse passive gives shield and ms, making her kiting even better, and giving her a shield so she DOESNT need to go any health and can use cut down even more efficiently.
youumuus is great because it gives on demand movepseed, but its not the only item you should build.
also he completely ignored the build route with navori/rageblade, which is stupid as hell, because its amazing against champs that you can kite, if you are facing things like cho, sett, garen, darius, that build does wonders, and since in the newest patch her crit penalty was removed, infinity is now also a viable item, even tho its a statstick mythic, which isnt considered the best, it makes you do DAMN amounts of damage, being able to 2 shot squishies and shred tanks.
on top of that, in terms of runes, bone plating and revitalize are good against enemy bot lane that can assassinate (pyke, blitz, draven, trist), against lanes that just poke, taste of blood with ingenious is just better, giving you infinite uptime on umbral, over 15s reduction on youumuus cd, you also have sweepers active 24/7 making you amazing in jungle and objective control.\
TLDR: senna works with like 70% of all items in game, and with almost every secondary tree, pick the one suited for your lobby and you will improve
last stand has worked even better in low elo. since you make mistakes, you are constantly low health
love how he describes Senna in the fights as some OP burst goddess but what we see is some poke at best xD
Also her healing can be compared to Sona's W in amount, just on long CD, and it's almost always better to use it for poke and souls than target your ADC - this is also why she's good paired with melee tanky champs, because when they jump on an enemy, she gets to Q both ally and enemy for max effect. Her E is one of the most useless abilities in laning, but I think only because allies don't really make use of it, it's also her only speedup however little it may be.
R is used for getting easy assists and occasional KS xD
i gotta be goated i pretty muchalways build yoummus on her
idk but imho the senna in this video doesnt care enough for his adc
Me who goes sorcery page as a support and have 500ad late game with sup item
geally gud xd
I still think Senna support is trash. I'd much rather play something like Zyra or Nautilus instead.
HE SPEAKS ENGLISH TRUE THE FRENCH FILTER IS SO HARD TO LISENT TO HIM
I find the French accent the cutest thing in the world, but it's a bit easier when you speak French 'cause you legit see the effort
@@dionysus5615 OUI OUI
YES SORRY MY BAGUETTE ACCENT IS SUS
This senna thinks q on enemy is more important than healing adc.
depant but yep most of the time i use my q to damage ennemys
well, yes, it's easier to stack passive faster
i only ever heal my ally if its in trajectory to hit enemy champ or if its crucial, i never use it to just heal
Watch any pro players gameplay of senna, healing is only done either when the ally is about to die or when in trajectory of an enemy player, sennas late game job is to be a sudo-damage dealer. If you wanted a healer you could play a character that does this exact thing
Because it is, have you ever played the champ ? That's one of the reason why senna works well with "melee" champions (or nilah as an adc for example) because they can go in and be in the trajectory of the spell anyway. But as a senna, having to heal your ally only means you're not stacking and your late game will be weaker.
Could you like make your own videos and not have a not understandable random french guy voice over 60% of it? If i wanted to listen to not understandable random french guy i'd be watching not understandable random french guys videos you know
Honestly 💀 The only reason I was able to understand him is because I speak French myself, this guy’s accent is THICK.
can u tell me what he says at 5:55 @@SierraOxygen
@@goth6irl”try to roam as little as possible as senna cause you’re gonna lose stacks by bot staying near waves”
thamk@@SierraOxygen
I understood him and english is not my first language. Neither is french.
Could you like make your own videos and not have a not understandable random french guy voice over 60% of it? If i wanted to listen to not understandable random french guy i'd be watching not understandable random french guys videos you know