Tiny Subwoofer Shootout | KEF KC62 vs SVS 3000 Micro
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2021
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SVS 3000 Micro Review: • SVS 3000 MICRO: Small ...
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FINALLY, more subwoofer reviews!! Thank you for your hard work.
Very insightful on these two products. I bought the SVS-2000SB and love it. The micro is pretty cool size and App. Insane how small the new subs are. Thanks
I bought two of the SVS’ and I couldn’t be happier. Sounds like a pair of dual high end subs
Great work as always, Joe!
great review, good mix of real-world listening scenarios and useful stats
this was an excellent review--great explanation of what to expect
Thanks, this answer a lot of the questions I had , mainly that if you what deeper fuller sound - bigger is better ( I didn’t get that from other reviews )
Excellent review Joe. I have an SVS 3000 micro in !
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Joe, Great Review! I just purchased the SVS 3000 Micro. I had to subscribe to your channel for two reason....You are an Excellent reviewer and your "Joe N Tell" handle is 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!!!!
👍 Really great review and very informative. I’ve watched a lot of reviews on speakers and subwoofers recently and this was one of the best.
Great advice on using a decibel meter to determine what your actual listening levels are before worrying about needing to have a subwoofer which hits high DB levels.
This was a fantastic review from a technical perspective as well a normal human's perspective.
thanks this clarified a lot for me well done sir!
Excellent video! Congrats.
Nice review! Interesting take in the conclusions. Good common sense is back!! 😀
It appears that the KEF KC62 is an engineering marvel regarding performance for its size! Hoffman's Iron Law is still intact though.
Thanks for this review!
Helpful information with measurement. Thank you.
Nice job, Joe!
Joe nice review. I have the svs micro. I’m considering the kc62
I very rarely go beyond 90db at peak levels but I'd say 90% of the time my system peaks at 80db. I hope you're able to check out the KF92 one day.
I appreciate the review! I went with the SVS micro simply because of the app and I’m glad I did. No more having to get on my hands and knees to dial in the sub whenever it needs a tweak. I would of liked the Kef however the app is a game changer!
It's been 6 months since your comment, so how is the SVS micro + app holding up? I'm considering it for music and TV audio setup in a small apartment.
@@Underhills I rarely use the sub for 2 reasons. Even though its a small sub a and I don’t turn it up too loud, I think it bothers the neighbours and 2, I like the sound of my speakers.
I still really like the app however I think for my apartment I would like to try the little Kef sub.
Even though the SVS goes low which would be great for movies, I feel like I’m missing mid/low bass articulation/detail when it comes to music.
@@j.craigh.3480 So if the sub overpowers or interferes with your two speakers then perhaps your setup isn't optimal. Have you reduced sub output enough? Is it placed in a cabinet or is it floor standing? Where's your speakers? Are they too cheap or "weak" to be paired with the sub?
I had a listen to the SVS SB-1000 and that sounded great as a hi-fi sub. Mid-range and everything, but it's too big for wall mounted hi-fi cabinettes. The Kef has the right form factor but the 3000 Micro has more bang for the buck it seems. Thanks for sharing you experiences.
@@Underhills I don’t know. Maybe its my room. I’m using Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52’s. The sub is off the floor about 6” (15 cm) and not in a cabinet.
SVS says if I turned the sub any lower it would be off. Possibly I have a dunce unit. Maybe I’ll get SVS to look at it.
When I was using studio monitors I had a Neumann KH 750 sub in this apartment and had excellent detail and bass clarity and when I cranked it up it sounded like live music here. A bass guitar sounded like a bass guitar.
I would suggest trying the SVS Micro out before purchasing it if you can.
As I mentioned I think this sub would be excellent for movies.
For music it’s ok but not for me.
Great review!
Hoping to see more stereo intergrated amplifiers like the Sabaj A20a & A10a with built in LFE for a sub. These are some sweet little subs. I prefer foot long subs though 😄
The review is finally here. Hope they have fixed the "standby" software issues surrounding the LFE mode. Seen many complaints on reddit and other forums about this.
For kef or svs?
Kef
I like these both for 2 channel audio, I don't think I'd consider them for home theater unless I was in an apartment. Nice review Joe.
You're spot on. Really, it's about expectations and how the sub(s) react in the room. I have a pretty large living room and garage space and both of these got loud enough for my taste if I corner loaded then. I'm sure if I placed them mid-wall or pulled away, it would be a completely different story.
Is it really necessary to have a high pass filter for use in a 2 channel system?
Nice video Joe
Hey what's up man. Thanks!
Good review!
Really good tiny subs been around. Sunfire made great tiny subs many years ago. May not have had app functions like today’s but they were amazing subs.
I still have 3 from Sunfire. HRS12. They put out serious sound. Still ideally a larger box would sound best but not everyone has the space or wants to look at a big sub.
@@thomasnew8606 I have a Sunfire HRS10 and it’s great for the size!
You're right, this would make a good replacement for my old Sunfire True Sub Mk ii when it finally goes. Which I think will be soon sadly; only worth repairing the electronics so many times.
Even with movies I don't let it get much above mid-80 db's; trying to preserve my hearing and all that. :) I think this might do great for all the organ music I listen to (32', 16 Hz pipes). Better than the Sunfire. (though I have my eye on some Rythmik subs too).
My 4 True subs are still amazing, 20 years on!!!
Nice review!
I wonder if the limiter changes based on the room position switch. For example, if “corner” is selected is there as much limiting for the low frequencies since there is boundary reinforcement?
Thanks. I didn't test that. I leave the deep dive to you. I would assume they would take advantage of the boundary gain in a corner. My guess is they only are tracking input signal to prevent over excursion and using the switches to adjust frequency response. Just a hunch.
@@joentell don’t you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby.
Enjoyed the review. What about a system for both music and home theater? You rank these based on one or the other, SVS for theater, KEF for music. I have been considering the Kef as I have the LS 50's along with the Kef center channel. I use an AVR with pre-outs to a powered amp, then to all 3 speakers. I also use the 2 channel feature for music listening. Which of these micro subs would work best for both music and movies?
Thank you Joe, your reviews are so good on so many levels, which is why I was hoping you could help me make a decision. I am finally replacing my 80s B&W. speakers which due to physical layout constrictions have been hanging from my walls near the ceiling. I intend to buy a sub or subs and downsize the speaker size somewhat, given that I will be using subs do you think that a good set of bookshelves will do the job or is there still a case for something a bit bigger. thanks Dave.
Thanks Dave. A good bookshelf + subwoofer setup can easily sound as good as a pair of floorstanders in my opinion
Time to bring in the KF92 (or two) now Joe! :)
I already see and appreciate KEF's engineering chops. The price reflects that too! 😉
Great review. I think we were all pretty skeptical of KEF’s claims on their website.
And with good reason. I still think it was misleading marketing
Yes this thing is seeming crazy!
Not sure what happened there - most of my comment disappeared. I have an SVS 3000 micro in a 2 channel system. The DSP is great and enables good integration, way better than an old monster REL I had. My speakers are stand mount Proacs and the sub adds enough bass below about 55hz to make a gorgeous big sound. Might add a second though. Excellent review btw.
I want a micro sub so bad lol, I love that sub woofer refrigerator reference
I think these are pretty amazing at a lower price www.amazon.com/dp/B0BBQ4JZS8/ref=cm_sw_r_as_gl_apa_gl_i_70B2MHRR4HAD93Q3TWQA?linkCode=ml1&tag=joentell-20
(Affiliate link)
I talk about that sub in this review: ua-cam.com/video/y5O5Rgc0IdU/v-deo.html
I like it so much, I bought 2 more!
Hi , Thanks for the details. Can you explain the difference between those 2 inputs in KEF62 (LFE vs Smart Connect) .. is using Smarrt connect and setting crossover to 80hz will be a good option when to use with Senhenisser Ambeo max soundbar ??
I thoroughly enjoyed this video, thanks!
You can't beat physics 😅🤣. If a subwoofer doesn't scare me I cannot use it for watching movies. Very comprehensive review and the comparison to the SVS 3000 MICRO was very appropriate. I agree that for the money , based upon what 2 subwoofers will do for you , the dual SVS 3000 MICROS are the choice over one KEF. Thanks for your attention to detail. Hope you are doing well. Still in my thoughts and prayers.
Thanks for caring!
The KEF has 2 subs.
@@iWubmusic both have two subs.
Thank you. which of the two subs would you say has the best transient response. Thanks.
Toss up
Great review. I am pairing my KEF R7s with the SVS SB 3000 sub...would that sound better than the micro of KC62 combo with my speakers? Thanks
Thanks Joe, nice review. do you have THD data for both subs? i think that is key info that most 2 channeler would focus.
Man here in Europe the prices don’t even differ that much! If SVS was half the price of Kef I’d go for that but now I’m still not sure.
Distortion seems quite a problem with the SVS.. don’t know if I like that.
I,m searching klipsch c-series sub review but no-one made it. Maybe You wil compare those 3 subs? Svs 3000 micro Vs klipsch c310aswi Vs kef Kc62?
This is super cool…learned so much from this video alone, thank you! But wanted to ask, what about Rel t/x series?
John, I've never tested any REL before.
@@joentell No worries! Just know that if you did, your perspective would be the most Tell(ing) ; )
God, the KEF62 looks so much smaller in the pictures of the set up @12:06. The SVS Micro looks titanic in comparison :-)
The KEF drivers are aluminum and dent dent dent easily. The SVS drivers are also aluminum but SVS made the wise choice of making the grill not-removable.
Joe Are you able to control EQ modes through the app? Also can the kef do high passs filtering from the app with an other brand of speakers or not? Its not clear
Small subs have been around for some time. I remember Bob Carver had one out in maybe the 80's.
The Sunfire True Subwoofer came out in the mid 90's iirc.
I Kno they can't do what big subs can, but I just LOVE micro subs
If I was to buy a sub... I feel like the kef should be on a dedicated stand. Lol
Idk. U think it'd be ok on the floor(2nd floor, wood)...or get something to put it on?
Kc62 is too small to use as a footrest under my desk🤣
Bro why are subs such comfortable foot rests. Lol. Lean my chair back, put feet on sub and I could watch movies or listen music for hours and even fall asleep 😂
Which brand audio cable you suggest connect from KEF subwoofer to KEF speakers ?
If one already has a ported sub up front that digs really deep, would adding something like the 3000 Micro to play nearfield behind the sofa be a good idea for some added punch in the 40-80Hz region?
You should reviewed the REL tzeroo mk3
I really appreciate that you did the REW thing, but would you mind posting the THD results of both subwoofers? I am really interested in if those small subwoofers can dive without getting super distorted.
I don't have those measurements, but the CEA 2010 measurements use THD as a threshold for whether a speaker can play certain frequencies. See if there are any CEA 2010 measurements for the subs you're interested in.
Are the high pass and low pass filters inside KC62 high quality transparent components?
Between kef 8b reference against kef kc92 which one is sounds better or are they the same. they both have the same 9 inch drive?
I cannot find your review on KEF LS50 wireless 2... Can you review that thing?
What app did you use for the low frequency bass test?
how does this compare to something like an Outlaw M8 sub? It's only 200ish bucks so I'm leaning to that and saving a bunch of cash
What’s a good match for subs with the Klipsch Fives?
If U add paradigm seismic110 to that comparison it would way outperform both of those subs mentioned.
Well I’m planning the kef k62 vs svs SB-1000 pro
I was not too happy with the sb1000 normal at all sounded a little gray /dark to me but the dsp and extra watts make me think about it
Are you using DSP? A sub always interacts with the room and you need to compensate for that.
@@joentell i insider the pro1000 for the app I have the micro3000 and I like the app. I want more output but I don’t want the extra weight cause I use them for
Playing live music at restaurants and I hate big subs because weight. I don’t use dsp but my audiophile curiosity makes me try different subs.
I wonder how two 12inch or two 15inch would performe in same configuration…😃
Great with measurements…🙂👍
14:55 lmao me with a Dayton um18 10cbft box
Thanks - Did you use the svs app PEQ to modify the output? It seems it would give you control over the smoothness and maybe the low end roll off.
I use it all the time on the SVS if the system doesn't have any PEQ capabilities
Still seems like a SVS SB-3000 is a good compact option
Interesting, I wonder if the kef is intended to be used with room correction.
Yeah. Seems like calibration would be inaccurate. I can’t see away around it.
If you don’t use room mode that should disable built in dsp and then you can use AVR dsp
Danke!
You didn't have to do that, but I am very appreciative that you did that. By the way, I just uploaded my KEF KC92 review, and I thought of you and made sure to talk about DSP! :-)
@@joentell Thank you so much, Joe....
I think I HAD to do that.
I have stolen so much of your time and I also annoyed you.... only because of my carelessness and lack of concentration....
In addition: you were also right about my words being disrespectful in a certain way....
I am so sorry about that and I wish you all the best for yourself, your channel and your whole life.....
Stay healthy, Joe..... 🙋👋
I'm now going to watch your brandnew video.... 🤗👍
KEF Looks like similar idea of Phantom speaker.
Great video! Are you using isoacoustic feet on the bottom of you speaker stands?
Yes. They sent me GAIA III's to check out and I'm a fan. Mostly because they're so stable on various surfaces. I didn't think much of them until I used some stands without them and I end up missing what they do. They almost act like suction cups on flat surfaces. I like that.
@@joentell ive heard nothing but good things. I didn't know if they benefits stands or are just for floor standers. Are they worth it? Looking forward to your review.
@@dajikbatarang1 I just put the feet that came with these ELAC Uni-Fi Reference and I'm seriously considering using the ISO Acoustic GAIA III's instead. The originals have spikes and just a tiny disk with an indent for the spike. One wrong move and the spike is touching the flooring.
Thanks for the review, great to see actual measurements for the two. SVS seems to be the obvious choice. Even with a minidps thrown in the mix for high-pass it is way cheaper.
(Take the sub-20hz measurements with a grain of salt, the UMIK-1 is only rated down to 20hz. Anyway it still provides value as you can see how they compare relative to each other.)
Yes. I mentioned that I wouldn't trust the data below 20hz, but it's good to get a general idea if anything is happening in those frequencies below 20hz.
@@joentell Ok, guess I missed that in all my excitement :D. Great review btw!
My understanding from looking at the manual is that to use the high pass functionality of the KC62 in a passive speaker system, you either need separates or an integrated that has preamp outs and amplifier inputs. The speaker level inputs are inputs only with no output.
That is correct.
Have you ever tried the bigger brother KF92?
Can you add a second 3000 micro to normalize the $$$’s?
What speaker was that in the background?
0:51: huh, since when is aluminum that heavy? That stuff must be thick af. Perhaps there's something more going on there. Both these subs look amazing though.
Depends on the thickness. It could just be the magnet on the drivers for all I know.
Good review 👍🏽 but you may have forgot that Velodyne had the Mini Vee series over 10 years ago with 1000 watt RMS down to 18hz. Baby Beast they were ! I had two 8's and 2 10's.
I remember the Sunfire True Subwoofer with 3000 watts too. I was always skeptical about their claims and I was skeptical about this KEF too. Glad I got to experience it for myself to gain perspective.
This KEF is way different
How would you describe the bass signature? Boomy? Punchy? Tight? Thunderous? Orgasmic? Disappointing?
Joe have you ever tried a Devialet Phantom? Pretty neat package which uses similar tech
I've heard them, but never reviewed them.
@@joentell Think it would be pretty cool, the 108dB model is quite something I'm sure they'd happily provide a pair. The little guy (reactor) is also unbelievable for its size
Amazing for its size indeed. But not the most refined sound...
Which one of these makes the least vibration? doesn't dual opposing woofers cancel that vibration that goes into the floors and wall? I need one for my apartment and I cant find it anywhere for demo -_-
The subwoofer enclosure itself hardly vibrates, but that doesn't mean that the sound pressure from the sub won't make stuff in your place shake.
The only thing missing is sound ,that’s what we want Tach Infos are of little value ,but thx for the onfos
Very nice 🤔
that t shirt Dope
I'm a Leica fan and when I went to the store, I picked up 2 t-shirts. I didn't really look at the price, not sure they had tags. When I walked out and looked at my receipt my total was about $100! Even their shirts are expensive! 🤣
Was there much testing done with different DSP mode? Looking at putting one in a cabinet next year
I did a frequency response test of all the modes. I'm not sure how well the cabinet one works because I would assume the "correct" response would differ based on the cabinets. I wouldn't put much thought into it if you plan on using DSP. If not, then I would assume the modes help a bit. They weren't huge swings in frequency response, just minor tweaks. There's not a ton of modes, so I guess you could always just switch through them and see which you like best.
@@joentell Thanks Joe for the great video on the KC62 and the time you've taken for the reply. You're correct is guessing I'll be using a Mini-DSP to work the response as this sub will hopefully go in the cabinet behind the listener at the back of the room and fill a huge-20db drop between 40hz - 50hz at the main LP. Which the main front Rel can't fill given its own position within the room, so need a second sub to even the room response. This sub seems to be the right tool for the job given its size, power and dimension. Plus the anti resonance cabinet as a bonus. I am Looking forward to any follow up video of the KC and your future content. Many thanks for your time and advice take care.
Hi Joe. I see from images in your video that you used these subs with The Fives. I am in the market for a sub for my Fives (which I use connected to my TV via eARC but also music occasionally). Would you recommend the SVS 3000 micro specifically for The Fives in this use-case?
I think that's a perfect match. Here's my review of the 3000 Micro. ua-cam.com/video/s5-XWaqKj5M/v-deo.html feel free to use my affiliate link if you decide to purchase them 👊😎
@@joentell Thanks for your prompt response! I am a little confused exactly how to integrate the sub with The Fives regarding the whole 80Hz high pass filter thing and am wondering how you did it. May I ask exactly how you connected the 3000 micro to The Fives? Did the cable go into the LFE input? Did you set low pass on the SVS and where at?
Also, is it necessary to manually turn off the SVS upon turning off The Fives (or my tv which turns off The Fives)? Thank you
@@davidbowyer6840 just sub out from The Fives to LFE on the SVS. No need to mess with the crossover. The Fives automatically high pass 80hz and up and put those on the main speakers, 80hz and below goes to SVS.
Does the built-in active DSP that adjusts depending on gain interfere with Audyssey or MiniDSP?
Ah you answered at about 11:35 of the video
I haven't done it to see as to what extent it would interfere, but the change I see in the graphs suggest it could cause some issues.
I'd like to see a pair of KEF R3s paired with KF92s. I think that setup would be very hard to beat for music.
what would your take be on which would blend best with electrostatics or other fast speakers?
I don't believe in fast/slow subs since a woofer playing a 120hz test tone is moving just as fast as any other woofer playing that tone. Most of what I think people are referring to is how a woofer might sound bloated/boomy in a room. Floyd Toole said something to the effect that what people are hearing is a fast woofer playing in a slow room. I agree with that. Also, many audio enthusiasts don't have enough experience with accurate/flat subsonic bass, and they tend to incorrectly associate bass extension with boominess, and they consider a speaker that doesn't have the capability to play those lower frequencies as "faster." If a sub can only play down to 30hz, sure that's a faster frequency than one that can play down to 18hz, but if the content is playing down to 18hz, I want to hear/feel that.
@@joentell Thanks for such a thoughtful response, Joe.. I am trying satellites that roll off at 80hz which are replacing full range speakers I've had forever...so I am missing some bottom end and don't want to diminish the greater articulation and coherence of the satellites....so I need small but want to get the job done correctly....so in that context it would seem your view is that the Kef would cover more of the spectrum but the blending at the handover level (I have a minidsp for that) is irrelevant. Is that correct? If so then you end up with the more subs the better?
@@joentell Actually, I believe it was Toole who once commented; "Yeah, the bass was so fast it got up and left the room before I could hear it."
Apps will eventually become end of life. It’s part of what is known as the software development life cycle. So the manually configured KEF sub is a product that will likely out last its competitor.
It seems that no other company can beat SVS for Value and size apart from maybe Monoprice but Monoprice subs dont come with a UK plug which is a big shame.
From my point of view the KEF is the indisputable first choice for good quality music. (Paired with at least a pair of LS50 Meta's)
If you're into home cinema the SVS could be your first choice. Investing the saved money into a nice bodyshaker-setup isn't the worst of ideas for home cinema 😉
Not sure how you could come to this conclusion without proper measurements. Just based on size alone, the KEFs smaller drivers will have higher distortion numbers are moderate to high spl levels.
@@RehashedZeal I'm really curious what the distortion figures are for the KEF at 18Hz compared to the SVS and wonder if that's actually contributing to the higher SPLs measurements at those frequencies. It's just hard to understand how two 6.5" drivers could output lower than two 8" drivers.
@@yelnatsch517 It‘s the TSP (purpuse of the driver): There are more 12“ Subwofer drivers reach subsonic frequencies than 18“ (because the purpose of 12“ drivers is mostly for home-hifi-Subwoofer enclosures. 18“ for hifi subs is not often requested from customers. The 18“ usually are designed for PA-Subwoofers. Subsonic is traded for max LSP). Low SD is depending on membrane weight and how stiff it‘s mounted in the gasket in relation of the air-weight/volume behind the driver (mass/feather correlation). Additionally there is the DSP target courve.
As discussed: Distortion comes up earlier with smaller drivers, than bigger ones at a named (subsonic) frequency.
The svs 3000 micro struggles to hit 90 db. I bought one to replace a ported velodyne cht-8 and it wasn't better. It sounded little better quality but down low it just lacked what I'm used too for a ported sub if you're a basshead. Definitely get the pb 1000 pro or even sb 2000 pro. Small woofers just cant hit the lows very well. Im sure the kef is even less powerful down low but amazing on top of you like Country music and soft rock but if you like music with deep bass and want to feel it definitely get ported sub. My 20 year old velodyne is only 175 rms and 350 peak and does a better job at shaking my chest and compessing the room at all bass notes except the tight buzzy bass frequencies found in Country music. Domt get me wrong its still a neat sub for how small but I just wasn't that impressed. My old velodyne is louder for the most part and sounds damn near as good.
I disagree. It EASILY produces 100+ SPLs at 30 Hz and above, and that's within a large room. Most probably you connected it or configured in the wrong way.
EQ setting for the Kef has a cabinet option. Does this mean it's finally considered OK to have the sub inside let's say a wall mounted hi-fi furniture with acoustic fabric doors like Clic or similar? In my mind it's either that or no sub due to WAF and other aspects. The compact size is THE reason I'm considering something like the KC62 or the 3000 Micro. I wanna hide them.
The answer is that everything has a tradeoff, including the size of the subwoofer you are using, the location you are placing it, etc. So, if it's in a cabinet or _nothing,_ then sure it is better, especially if you can do room correction. You could do that for either of these.
Appreciate your response@@luke9822
Kf92 is the same size. But 2.5 times more expensive
Very interesting. Not sure I would call Kef's rating of 11hz accurate. There's clearly a lot of DSP trickery going on. It seems like the true -3db point is around 45hz based on your measurements. Sure it might be 19hz at -50 volume, but who specs subwoofers at that level? I wish there was a frequency response standard that manufacturers had to adhere to to avoid these cases.
CEA 2010 is the standard way of measuring subwoofers based on SPL at certain frequencies before they hit a threshold of distortion. This would show that there are any laws of physics being broken by the KEF or SVS. The driver in our headphones can also hit 11hz, at extremely low volume and right next to our ears! 🤣
15 years ago didn't Sunfire and Velodyne have subs that were this size with 1,000+ watts?
yep, i still have a Sunfire True Sub Mk ii, 11" cube, 2700 watts, (2) 8" drivers (one passive) circa 2000-2001. goes down well to 17-18 Hz, but not as refined as today's subs.
problem is the power supplies on these things tend to fry caps regularly. :)