Why your Snare sounds like SH*T in a MIx!
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- Getting your Snare to work in a mix can be a horrific struggle. I've learned by failing. A lot. But once you take the right approach, it can be quite simple. Here's the solution.
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About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
If you truly love mixing, you’ll never stop having eureka moments and learning more about perfecting your craft, love to see it
I'd say it's just a lesson about life: you never end content with what you do, because the joy comes from the never ending mindblowings you get every time you learn something new which rocks your understanding of things!
Great player
Great snare
Great tuning
Great mic/s
Great room
Great engineer
Always sample your own snare in that session to add with no bleeds.
good tip about sampling the snare! The go to would be adding beef with already sampled snares, but why not use your own?
It’s much better to sample all the kit in oneshots, that reverb trick works wonders on kick and toms too.
Also, sample before but not after, so your sampled drums are freshly tuned.
@@scottsmith7521 sampling your own fits perfectly and of course sampling other snares can add beef but don't lose the natural tone because it will destroy your end result and sound fake like the new Blink182 album snare
Picked up a good tip today from Present Day Production: get single shots from the drummer at the end of a song session. You can then use *those* as your samples to “replace” and/or trigger the reverb.
yeah but remember about tuning your whole kit again before recording samples as the snare and toms will probably be out of tune or lower sounding than on the big portion of the tracks. I like recording samples before the session when the kit is freshly tuned
Oh yeah I LIKE that ..
Before you said, Glenn, i'd figured you'd just added a single delay on the drum hit (maybe with some compression/eq) to make it 'bigger'
Enhancement is cool, even time aligning the OCCASIONAL off note/hit - no technique shoiuld be TOTALLY off limits, just dont be a SLAVE to it, and make laboured-over homogenous gargage!
Not to be confused with Garbage ;) Hi Shirley!)
@@huberttorzewski isn't that the same problem but in reverse? the song/take you record last will sound out of tune with the fresh samples.
Not that I care, I simply use regular samples recorded who knows where and they sound fine, artists happy, labels happy, bank account happy. The drummers who make the most noise about "pReZeRvInG tHe iNtEgRiddY" are the ones who cant really play and need the heavy doctoring.
@@modernistmixing I always tune the kit slightly between recording each song but the best tuning is always before 1st song because I spend the most time on that. The difference is not that big though but if you're going to use something as a sample it better be well tuned.
My EVERYTHING sounds like Sh*t in a mix.
A snare I had to try and improve only sounded good with an utter overload of compression from about 5 plug ins. One plug in was ,C4 on the the too much limiting option. After all this the snare sounded quite fkn good. Far superior to the raw audio. That was atrocious
You were pretty adamant about how drums should be pure back in the day. And now you have your own sample pack and courses on how to use them the best!
Yeah, it obviously worked for him. Funny thing about "purist" mind sets: they are actually really good for learning something, but there is usually a good time to abandon them.
He's said before what got him rethinking it was the Peace Sells drums having samples
We live and learn. Just do what sounds best.
Everyone makes mistakes.
@@SMDaboobity in fact he says that in this very video
I love that the short answer is : "gated snare 'verb", and that the technique is used since the 80's on dance and disco records
Nice job Glenn!! I am really watching you progress and your mixes all these years
Killer video and explanation
Hell I feel relieved. Your close mics sound like mine and what you're doing is exactly what I do. I discovered it by just trying to emulate sounds I've listened to, to get that sound. Listen to your ears.
Excellent video! Thank you for the great advice. Also I have been using your three step Bass sound in Element on almost every song I have been working on recently. It just has the unique clang and bite sound I have been looking for. Thank you so very much for all that you do. Rock on 🤘🧡🔥🤘
Loved the demonstration on the mix with just simple subtleties, thank you.
Now this is a fresh breath of air back to the bones of what Glen does best. Well done Mr. Canadian:)
I've heard your mixes improve so much of the years and its cool to see you opening your mind to new techniques. Like your sounding more modernized but staying true to what you like etc
The room sample to reverb is a neat trick, I have been sending my snare bus to a plate for a similar effect, have to try this later
Awesome tip here !!! thank you Glenn !!!
Dude. Thanks for the video. These are so helpful. I do dig the guitar reviews, and the outboard gear reviews even more. But, these how-to's are the juice for me. Cheers,
- Jake in Windsor.
This is actually pretty cool idea. I’m gonna try this in my mixes. Thanks for sharing Glenn
Have fun!
Glad to see some recording tips again on the channel!
Glenn, thank you! This is a game changer for my drum mixing. I could never figure out why I wasn't 100% happy with my snare even after re-EQ'ing after putting reverb directly on it. Can't wait for your next mix review stream so I could show you what's cooking now.
Cool!
Thank you! Sounds great.
very inspiring growth on your mixes. Went from really good to god tier.
Thanks man!
Unreal tips as always I'm definitely gonna start doing this Glen you're the best
Go for it!
GLENNNNN!!!!!
This is your best video on UA-cam man. great, great job :).
That is of course CLA and his brother TLA's approach. They send only the ambient samples to the verbs. Never the dry drum signals. One thing to consider, and Andy Wallace talks about this, is the length of your ambient sample. So you probably want to gate it. You can also use ambient samples on your kick. Stereo samples. That way you can pan them left and right. Same with snare. You can get a really wide drum sound that way. So always be aware of whether you have a mono ambient or stereo ambient sample. Most are stereo. Last tip. Mix in your ambient samples wearing headphones. According to Andy Wallace you just want them to shade the sound. If your ambient sample is too loud in the mix it will make your whole drums sound to reverby. And you'll lose the punch.
🤘🏻Thanks for the shout-out, Glenn! Sounding killer as usual, man! Room samples are the way.
I'm going to try this technique next! What I usually did was using samples 100% wet with reverb as a parallel track (which is not bad) but this takes it to another level of realism. Awesome video dude!
Holy shit, its such a simple solution that ive never considered. This is going to elevate my own mixes, and not even in metal. Thanks!
Of course, this makes a lot of sense. Thanks Glenn.
This really is brilliant & simple, & makes me laugh at myself as to why I never did this before. 😄 It really gives more of that live recording definition and keeps the players personality on the instrument. Huge Thanx for this.
This is gold Glenn, thank you very fucking much!!!!!!
Thanks for the tips ✌️
Nice work . This is my tone seeing/ hearing you. I really liked what you did. I subbed to your channel too. Hope to see you again on the discord.
Snare's sounding great, and better fits into the overall sound/feel of the piece.
Kudos to the Guitarist also, a Satriani type expression without being overbearing like much typical Metal.
Oh yeah.... incredible, thanks Glen.
Dang I really needed this.
My guy giving hella sauce 🔥
Love this. Great, practical advice with demonstration. Not just the "how" but also the "why". Will be incorporating into my workflow. But, Glenn, we need to talk about solid body acrylic guitars. What type of tone plastic do you recommend? 🙃
Man that snare is like velvet to my ears, God damn man dope sound Ill try this method soon enough
Great stuff Glenn
I liked this so much I bought a Yamaha SPX2000 today. Thank you Glenn for the heads up on this unit.
I've said this before. One of my favorite snare sounds is on the Queensryche album Empire. So much pop. I think they used a sample for that one too.
In some demos, I had no bottom snare mic, so I cut highs on all drums and let the over heads get all the room sounds/highs of the snare and the toms. On rolls I had to cut the overhead tracks to not mudify the mix.
Thanks to you, I had the courage to sit down and have a proper mix session on some of my own work!
I'm very surprised to see something I had to figure out on my own here after I've used it, since I learn most of the mixing from you
Love the 80s sounding reverb on this !
Thanks man. Really enjoy your videos. Getting this one set up now….I have the 990.
Awesome! Good luck, man!
Like I always say (as of now lol), the sound of a drum is not just the stick on the head which is where the typical recording is done. What happens under, over and around the shell is just as important. You really can only capture that from the room mics. Of course, depending on the room, the room will need some EQ, reverb and gating adjustments as rooms always colour the sound and you must control the bleed from other instruments. Drums are omni directional and what the audience hears and what the drummer hears are never the same. What the drummer hears natively off the top of the heads is not always good and that is why drummers want in-ears that are properly mixed. The drummer wants to hear what is out in front of the drums in the open air. The recording of drums needs to be inclusive of all of the air around the drum set so the room mics are a critical part of the overall drum sound. The snare is the life of a drum set so it needs special attention.
I agree with this way of thinking for what I record. I have a very snappy snare that I like to record with. The shell has a lot less body but it has a massive crack. I find it easier to shape its sound, easier to add some body with a bit of EQ than trying to add articulation. It works well in the room and even overheads in my opinion.
I am happy for this guy . I’ve followed him since his first video and took a picture with him at namm show years ago . I am so happy for you bro and proud of everything you have achieved bro
Thanks, Jesse!
Thanks, SSS!
I currently use an AKAI MPC1000 sampler/sequencer/drum machine which is recorded, eventually, onto a Yamaha AW16G HDD recorder (all hardware, no computers!), this tutorial will be very helpful in future when mixing the drums. To date, nobody has noticed that there is no drummer, unless it is pointed out to them beforehand, and those who were in on "the secret" were enthusiastic about the mixes, claiming "it sounds just like a rock drummer, sweating away behind a real kit!"
It's good to know that I am not alone, in using samples to create a "rock" sound, instead of hip-hop style drums, which is something the MPC range is already well-known for.
Can you explain your workflow with the MPC? Like, are you just using it for the pads, or does it let you create a whole midi song track on there and then enable you to split out kick, snare, tom1 , etc
Anyone else see the thumbnail and immediately have the "St. Anger" cover pop in their head?
You should do an interview with Blaze Bayley. Did a gig with him a couple of weeks ago and he had me mix in a way I've never mixed before! And for his band it did work. You're never to old to learn something new! Just put your presumptions aside and listen to someone with more knowledge or different ideas. Great learning experience for me atleast.
This just reminded me of "room tone" on a movie shoot from 20 years ago. Sounds crispy and crunchy.
Def using this trick in my mix
Tried it right away! Works well even for more distant snares like I sometimes do for country folk . Plus, I always enjoy pulling a plugin I haven't used from my subscription 😅
This was genuinely eye opening and it sounds amazing! Great work Glenn
The song at the beginning that you were before and aftering the drums..The "After" sounded like Ross Robinson circa 94-95.🤙Thanks Glenn.
Cool, i've been doing this for years! i only ever used room samples on my drums as we as my actual room mics, but room samples on Kick,snare and toms have always been my go to! i just roll a little attack off of the initial impact of each room sample..
Great tutorial! Thanks! Putting the punch pieces together. I'm very much into "Doink!-material"! The tonal sustain stuff. Especially with bell bronze snares. Rammstein's "Reise Reise" impressed me a lot when it comes to snare sounds. I'd also always try additional room mics the room next door if possible. Sometimes very epic results. Never been a friend of layering. Either programming drums entirely or recording them entirely. Exception is "emergency replacement samples" recorded in the same session as the drum recordings. For time correction REAPER beats problem tools beat detective.
any way you do it dude, your snare sounds great.
Great vid🏆. I use Steven Slate drums on hard rock songs. Just recently figured out that when I use Slate samples with top and bottom (wires) samples on separate tracks and then blend together, I get a much better sound. The final mixes are far louder, if you allow the blended snare to sit on top of the mix, just above the vocal. That appears to be the way perception of loudness starts to work. I can get masters perceptively louder than Foo Fighters from the naughties albums, such as The Pretender, and they're "loud"!! Listen carefully to the FF snares in their mixes from that era. They're quite 'dry' and natural sounding - you can hear the snare wires which helps it sit up in a dense mix👍😁 (quite difficult to explain😆). All the best...
Im not a heavy rock / metal dude at all ! But i do really enjoy anything you share man !
Cool awesome tip
Okay yeah this is a great trick. I'm working on more of a pop rock mix, works here too.
The before snare sound was already good enough for my ears. That's not a critique of the after sound. It's a compliment to how good the starting point already was before the improvement. My issue has always been that the cymbals tend to be too quiet in Glenn's mixes. But I'm not a sound engineer so I wouldn't have a clue how to get that to my personal preference.
Glenn, the whole time I've been watching this show and hearing the same mix over and over... the snare needed this sound the whole time and I couldn't put my stick on it
The cool thing about realising you're wrong is that you don't have to be wrong anymore.
Not a metal head sorry guys, but this channel so much informative always. Keep up the works. Great Tip!
I rarely bother with compliments (opinions are like...), but now this is dope 👍
“… let me guess: Buttresses, Transom, Archways!?” 😂😂😂💯💯💯
Very interesting and very helpful! Could this technique be replicated for toms as well? Or do you recommend trying something else?
Hey man, enjoyed the video! I’m just not sure where to find room snare samples? I’m very green when it comes to samples haha can you use EZ Drummer to produce the room snare sample?
Thank you Glenn! The timing on this is perfect as I am in the studio now with my band and this information/technique is exactly when we are looking for. Because right now, the snare sounds like shit. Thanks again!!!
Good luck, man!
Glen you actually talked about something that I can use.
Man, this was topical as hell for me. I'm definitely trying these techniques in my next mix.
Okay, coming back to this one. Went back on a project I currently have on-the-go, and changing nothing except for the fact that only my room mic has 'verb on it made such a huge difference. Band's gonna be hyped. Cheers, team!
I feel like I'm slapped every time the snare hits. I think I like it😂
Something I found myself doing, this was also inspired by the Paul Lani interview is I just key in filtered noise through the snare drum using a gate. Not only that, I have the gated noise feed into the reverb bus so that way there's a lot of space in addition to just the dry noise.
can you simplify this process a little bit? Are you talking about “keying in the filtered noise” Via a side chain? Sending that signal to the Reverb and back to the track ?
@@scottsmith7521 yes sidechain the gate on the noise generator with the snare hits as a key. Then the noise which opens and closes with the snare hit, bus it to your reverb aux so that it has more space.
@@scottsmith7521Use a “White noise generator.” And a gate in reverse mode, every gate has a different name
For it (expander, reverse duck). Side chain it to the snare to the white noise only plays when the snare is it. The white noise can be audible or you can just send it to your reverb without actually hearing it.
Cool!
Congrats. You have learned something we all have been doing for the past 15 years.
Gleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee^10^10^10eeeeeeeeen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just tried this trick after watching this video but I did it a little diffrent.
Instead of slate trigger I send the snare top(Pre fader-Pre Fx) into a room reverb and after the room(1,1sec) into a another verb(2,5 sec) (reverbs in serial) and last in the chain was console 1 channel strip and I used side chain gate( info from the snare) and the snare sounded awesome!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing this awesome trick.
Elias from greece.
It gives your snare a 3D sound, like I do live with "fake stereo" live with a mono board and stereo effects pedals. I send my guitar pedals stereo sides to an amp sim pedal with aux out to house, the other side goes to my amp and only the amp has verb and delay in the effects loop. So same thing here with snare send your dry slight right, your verb overhead slightly left, you'll give it real depth.
Drums sound better when they played in time. As a drummer first and a guitarist/bassist seeing who is making music, it all comes down to everything working together. Working harder to be out of time is counter productive.
Ive been subscribed for years now..... It doesn't hurt at all....
Glenn your while drum sound since I've been watching the channel has always been amazing.
When I played, I used a Yamaha 8 inch steel snare and a 1957 Slingerland 4 inch piccolo snare. Using the proper heads matter too. I despise single heads. I used Remo CS blacks with white dot. That is a triple ply head. Takes a beating and created a powerful tone. If it doesn’t sound like a cannon going off it’s not correct.
You don't like a snare that goes "pinnnnnngggg" ?
not related but i got meself some studio monitors and it's a great advance on the sound. Also on the mixing as well. But also just a great pleasure when listening to songs.
For the record - i actually got them really cheap while they have a wide sound range too.
Perfection takes his soul and life out of music
I’ve been using this same room sample trick for about a year now and it 100% leveled up my snare tone. But I usually use samples I make in my own room. Not a bad sounding room I got over here but I do wish it had a bit more tail end on the reflections.
How do you use the copied top snare track to add the room samples? Is there a program or do you have to manually build a sample track or something?
@@Bobby_Uterus I build samples using the software that comes with trigger 2. I am fortunate to have a couple friends with huge collections of drums. They come by and I setup my live room with mics and we sit down and record multisamples. I also go all out on this. We will do 5 velocities with a minimum of 10 attacks at each velocity. I also use tons of mics. Often 2 top mics, 1 bottom mic, one shell mic, 2 overheads and 2 room mics. That is for snare. Obviously Tom’s or kick would be a little less involved but make no mistake, I take extra care in those elements as well. Just to build one sample it can take me a week. But once they are complete omg are they ever satisfying!!! If time allows I’ll do this with clients as well simply because if I choose to use samples, I prefer use samples made from the same drumset being using in the recording. This helps keep things sounding natural.
At the moment I’m considering building a website to sell these samples for super cheap. The more I make, the more I realize, the stuff offered in most trigger packs is unusable. It’s unrealistically processed and just way too easy to overuse, at least in my experience. I do feel like I have something to offer to the world here but I’m also terrified to share it because.. you know… reasons…
@@Bobby_Uterus oh I just reread your comment and realized I danced all around answering your question. Yeah look up Steven Slate trigger2. It’s a fantastic drum replacement plugin. Just pull it up like any other plugin and pick a sample. It works in real time and it’s super powerful but it’s easy to go overboard with it.
My suggestion would be to almost never fully replace anything. There’s a mix knob. Almost always do not put it to 100% you’ll want to get your recorded snare sounding as good as you can and if it needs a little something else, blend in a snare sample. But of course dig through the samples you have available. Don’t just randomly pick one. Make sure it complements the snare you mixed.
So what Glenn is saying here is, make a copy of your top snare. Put slate trigger on that copy and find a good sounding room snare. This would be one of those times to put trigger at 100% mix. Then fade in that track to taste. Boom you just made a FAT sounding snare with character.
@@smeemusic Awesome man, thanks for the reply. I’ve yet to try anything with samples. I have been curious how exactly it’s done combining samples with actual drum tracks. Man it must be really involved but also make for some huge sounding drums. Man sounds like you have quite a sample collection! Might as well give your venture a try! Sounds promising.
@@smeemusic Oh nice! Ok yeah that answers my question and makes complete sense. Right on, I’ll look up the Slate Trigger2 program. Sounds pretty handy and thanks for the tips. I may have more questions going foward.
Okay, tried this. One room sample.
Mind: BLOWN!
Yamaha SPX is definitely one of my favorite reverbs.
Glen are you still doing the live submit your mix reviews ?
thesee are some monster snare sounds.
That first snare was not bad - it only had room for improvement ;)
Do you think you might provide an easy-mode implementation of this technique for a future version of ELE?
Nice! I found a Tama Mirage room snare sample that I can try your technique with.
If you have Trigger 2, load up any of your favorite snare samples, mute the direct mics, and just send the room mics to the reverb. You can even use the transient designer to tame the attack a bit so it doesn’t interfere with the real snare’s attack.
Glen when are you going to discover the wonderful world of nuanced tone in all natural acoustic recording and the worlds classical and folk stringed instruments?
Glenn I'm gonna need you to do a whole video of Prog band names
Well, that looked easy (famous last words). I'm going to have a play about with my vst drums and see what I heavy, fat sound I come up with for my crappy one woman black metal "band". Thanks! One quick question: when you're playing with your knob (fnaar fnaar, ooo-er) doing automation, after the volume has changed for the duration you require, do you then set it back *exactly* to the level it was before or just do an ear "yeah, that sounds about right" estimate?
Yeah, this is the content I want. Not the endless guitar snob mythbusting
Also changing guitar and bass EQ drastically changes the snare sound and how it lays in the mix. These things can drive you crazy
Nice! I didn't understand the process. DO you send the dry snare sample to the external reverb OR only the room mic sound from the sample (with the actual close mic muted) and augment it with the external reverb?
my snare is a remo 13x3 piccolo. not very fat sounding. im happy with it. monday nite mix reviews????🍻
To me, Andy Wallace is the definition of a "mixer". His mixes sound what you'd think a mix should sound like - on a very basic level - multitrack sessions made to work as one cohesive whole.
Listening to his work, you don't think "why didn't he add more top-end on the snare", because it just works the way it is in a very universal way.
Also worth analyzing is his bass sound, which together with CLA's bass (just different in the context) is MASSIVE - from my understanding sent through a 1073, then SSL 4k with EQ and compression, finally popped into the instrumental bus.
Great examples are any tracks of Nevermind, "X" from Toxicity, "Lying From You" from Meteora, and so on.
Another interesting fact about his approach, is his flexibility - with every "trend" in mixing rock/metal/alternative music, he managed to keep the same pace as the rest of the industry (i.e. big reverberated 80's, into bone-dry and punchy 00's) without losing his signature sound. Whenever the kick and bass sound massive, you pretty much know and easily distinguish and Andy Wallace mix from any other mix.
A masterful audio-engineer and music-connoisseur.
I have found you can get a similar result if you send your dry snare to a reverb track with a transient shaper at the end of its fx chain to cut out all the attack and just have decay
That’s a great way to do it.
I like that you will do these videos where you're excited about a new technique. I do the same thing, whenever I learn something new I tell my regular clients "Dude, I've unlocked the key to everything!!" haha. Awesome video, thanks! And don't for get to fuck yourself.