A World that Values IQ Above All - Dr. Richard Haier, UC Irvine Psychology

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  • Опубліковано 4 лют 2025

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  • @DemystifySci_Podcast
    @DemystifySci_Podcast  9 днів тому +3

    DEMYSTICON 2025 ANNUAL MEETING IN PORTUGAL!!! June 12-16:
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  • @PhilipSportel
    @PhilipSportel 7 днів тому +2

    I tested at 99th percentile and I was assigned to tutor kids in what they, at the time, called the 'Basic Program'. Those kids had better social skills than 100% of the people in the so-called 'Advanced Program'.
    I've spent so much of my life around people who would likely test 30-45 points below me on standard IQ tests that I've learned an appreciation for the kind of intelligence necessary to navigate 'the streets' or 'social situations'. Better to be the student, I thought for much of my life, but as Dr. Haier described, I simply couldn't grasp how they did it. I was the dunce, marveling at feats of intelligence I could never hope to achieve.
    As a result, I've had to think very hard about how to explain my interest in science in ways more people can understand. It's been hit or miss, but I savor those hits more than anything. In time, I've concluded one of the noblest aims for the smartest among us is to be a connector, to tie together very different groups of people so we can, collectively, weather a vast range of crises and opportunities. Cloistering intelligent people makes societies more brittle.
    We should value 'intelligence' because it's the one of the best alternatives to coercion to glue a society together.

  • @neilcreamer8207
    @neilcreamer8207 9 днів тому +11

    Your question about whether there’s a place in a technological society for people with low intelligence returned me to my general outrage at what our culture values. For example, it doesn’t take exceptional smarts to be a carer who looks after people who can’t look after themselves but I would find that job very hard. Yet it is one of the worst paid jobs throughout our culture. Although we value intelligence and pay people well for it, it’s not the only valuable trait that people can possess.

    • @DemystifySci_Podcast
      @DemystifySci_Podcast  9 днів тому +3

      Absolutely

    • @knowcoiner5599
      @knowcoiner5599 9 днів тому

      One of the arguments for homogeneous societies is that the mean intellectual of the group is sustainable.
      In a non-homogeneous society, different groups create to large of a gap different. And predisposition to violence in low IQ is higher, and most crime runs along the part of society where you have the biggest G factor difference, with resentment being a driving force.

    • @David-f8e2v
      @David-f8e2v 8 днів тому

      My iq was 135 and intelligent people are often the dumbest

  • @gojira2892
    @gojira2892 9 днів тому +3

    Great episode, thank you for inviting Dr Haier on the show!

  • @KRAU5555
    @KRAU5555 9 днів тому +4

    Bro, I'm a welder. The 20 year olds nowadays get to miss work if they can't wake up in time because they might have sleep paralysis or anxiety. Nobody is doing work anymore. There's going to be a collapse.

    • @DemystifySci_Podcast
      @DemystifySci_Podcast  9 днів тому +1

      😬

    • @KRAU5555
      @KRAU5555 9 днів тому

      ​@DemystifySci_Podcast I just came to the Trans-cranial stimulation part. If you want to know more then find Lee Von Kraus. His resume is insane.

    • @ProbablyJacob
      @ProbablyJacob 7 днів тому

      People like you have been saying this for 100 years and society just keeps going, so ill believe it when i see it big dog

    • @KRAU5555
      @KRAU5555 7 днів тому

      @ProbablyJacob 🤣 What do you mean? You want me to interview my co-workers about their mental illnesses and send you the videos?

    • @ProbablyJacob
      @ProbablyJacob 7 днів тому

      @@KRAU5555 what i mean is there will be no collapse, trades will remain staffed, difficult jobs will remain filled, and the earth will keep spinning because none of this made up moral panic about young people sucking has ever mattered once for the literal millenia that people have been bringing it up

  • @PhilipSportel
    @PhilipSportel 8 днів тому

    Reading my mind with these topics lately. You guys are amazing.

  • @keevancrawford6708
    @keevancrawford6708 9 днів тому +2

    Shilo is right regarding test prep. A lot of what we do is formulaic, there’s a psychology and philosophy behind it.
    The doctors response made no sense regarding testing better after prepping. He compared being sick to being unprepared.
    If you’re playing a board game, familiarity with the board game is going to produce better results.
    There’s always a level of insight on how things function that everyone doesn’t have access to.

  • @jamesconway9277
    @jamesconway9277 10 днів тому +2

    The thing that changed human intelligence was the rewiring of the brain by clicking on links that interrupted the flow of thinking that no interrupting in completing the reading of an article before any interruption occurred.

  • @WmJames-rx8go
    @WmJames-rx8go 9 днів тому

    Fascinating! Also, thank you very much for not flooding your work with a ridiculous amount of meaningless advertisements.

  • @WalkinginDivineHealth
    @WalkinginDivineHealth 9 днів тому

    This was a very interesting conversation! I do know that increasing dietary DHA, especially during development, increases cognitive function.

  • @charliesinger5161
    @charliesinger5161 9 днів тому +1

    Wow can't believe Another Sunday,,,,, how time flies... You guys are on fire and totally on point, especially for the times we are living through now,,,,,,,,,,,,, I haven't watched this show yet but I already have a thought that is a recurring theme,,,,, ((that I think this show will will help to reinforce))

    • @charliesinger5161
      @charliesinger5161 9 днів тому

      My definition for life is::: any localized dynamic that works as a system contained within a domain independent other domains that reside Within a relativistic but invariant medium,,,,,,,,,,, that can observe external signals and then at the point of simplest computation compute a decision,,,,
      That I believe is life....

    • @charliesinger5161
      @charliesinger5161 9 днів тому

      The fact that a decision can be made is life and it is consciousness at the most fundamental level. After we conclude on that and say hi to a degree of probability then we can get on with the debate about sentience and the different levels of consciousness The Matrix of thought in the phenomenon of intuition.....

  • @janedrew3050
    @janedrew3050 10 днів тому +4

    17:18 SAT tests are no longer aptitude tests. They are achievement tests. I actually went down this rabbit hole a few days ago. Apparently in '94 they started moving towards the "European model" and in 2016 they dropped the aptitude part all together. Supposedly it was in the name of equity but there's a study from Chile that says otherwise. It's interesting.

    • @janedrew3050
      @janedrew3050 10 днів тому +3

      38:37 John B Conant was the original developer of the SATs. He had some questionable ideas but also some good ones on this.
      It's so weird this came out a week after I looked all this stuff up 😅

  • @JrgenMonkerud-go5lg
    @JrgenMonkerud-go5lg 9 днів тому +2

    On the off chance of stochastic rudeness i must say that i have never heard anything intelligent said about iq, how poetic.

  • @charliesinger5161
    @charliesinger5161 9 днів тому +1

    One last thought, human beings as semi-programmable instruments,,,,,,,, are reflective of the environments and the processes that program them. One of the most valuable Commodities that we have today are our educators our teachers and our leaders the ones that lead us into good and that teaches us truth about Who We Are and what we do and how we should be. And in particular how we should behave towards one another,,,,,,
    Love you guys you are the salt of the earth

  • @themrcharlessjpg
    @themrcharlessjpg 8 днів тому

    1:20:25 the way that he portrays the "G" factor makes it seem like it is a statistical constant, a variable that appears when measuring intelligence in larger groups. That's why it can't be modified, because its the result of the variables measured that give the meaning to the G factor

  • @typhvam5107
    @typhvam5107 8 днів тому

    02:25:30 reminds me of the old concept of "the curse of thoth", thoth gave human writing but warned us that we would have less capacity to remember due to it, which seems factual. If we can externalize memory we do not need to train our memory nearly as much, thus we have less capacity.
    While you look at the few surviving cultures or remains of cultures that did not have widespread writting but oral cultures instead, and the capacity to memorize things that they have is superhuman compared to ours.

  • @mhullalaska
    @mhullalaska 7 днів тому

    The traditional manner of instruction among the Native Alaskans in remote villages was this: "I will perform this task and you watch me. Now you perform that task and I will watch you." Essential learning had to do with keeping yourself alive and learning the means of getting food for your family. IQ tests measure skills that are required for an academic, political, and even economic environment. The students I worked with for 27 years were generally diagnosed as language delayed as they entered school. However, once in a language rich environment their IQ scores frequently rose. (Psychologists insisted this does not happen). One student tested by the same psychologist in at age ten and then again at fourteen gained 20 points.
    When we look at the achievements of illiterate people from ancient times to pre-industrial times they demonstrated a high degree of an intelligence that would not be measured by IQ scores.

  • @themrcharlessjpg
    @themrcharlessjpg 8 днів тому

    23:00 intelligence being latent is an interesting approach that personally I hadn't really thought about. It being latent could explain the reason for which new discoveries like "artificial inteligence" might "seem" "emergent" but are latent within the capacitors of the systems. So the emergence in artificial inteligence is the reemergence of our latent inteligence being aware of its competition?

  • @wangelite5279
    @wangelite5279 9 днів тому +2

    Complexity and nature of task, will require different type of intelligence, maybe. And there is the problem of where human nature makes a system, like the insidious corporate world, insurance, fund managers, money markets, even health is going into the corporate world, where in korea, its more rewarding to be a aesthetic doctor than save lives. The systems we make(I think its just a natural part of human nature) rewards something insidious and simplistic at the core. We can have a combination of high intellect and more psychopathy, the motivation is how do they solve the problem of control and getting more power. High intellect and kindness, will be thinking about abstract problems and considering about everyone else. The high intellect and more psychopathy or bad faith or doing it because its "living in the real world", create and live in systems of fear, like if you dont grind yourself to produce or obey or do whats good for you, the system of fear arise naturally, because it puts everyone in a life and death mindset and make it consequential. The high intelligence and good faith will spend time exploring and making things, therefore poor at thinking about controlling people. May be genetics, also environmental. The current environments (all around the world) will reward the high intelligence and more psychopathic, the rewards are luxury and ease of living. The high intelligence with kindness will be bogged down with so much red tape, money as a control system, power structures, bureaucracy, then depression and health problems. The amount of cognitive load to think about how to navigate the corporate world will require so much effort, not enough energy left to do the abstract thinking, exploring, experimenting, creating, meaning of life questions

  • @jaysphilosophy1951
    @jaysphilosophy1951 8 днів тому

    There's something called Neoteny or "how quickly one ages," which should be taken into account as well. There was a study done that shows high school students born in January, and February do much better than students born in August/September.......The reason being students born in january have a boosted advantage of Neoteny over students born in August/September.......I'm not sure if you guys mentioned Neoteny or not I'm only at 22:38.

  • @Mystery_G
    @Mystery_G 9 днів тому +2

    I would replace IQ with wisdom. There are loads of intelligent people but few wise.

    • @CalebDiT
      @CalebDiT 8 днів тому

      You nailed it. There are many fools with high IQs.

  • @themrcharlessjpg
    @themrcharlessjpg 8 днів тому

    1:00:00 here for example you can extrapolate this to AI telling bad news to patients, here in Mexico in research we saw that it does not work because of how cold the delivery of the situation is. So I wouldn't necesarrily go for the higher IQ physician but for the one that understands better the doctor-patient dynamics and bioethics

  • @ProbablyJacob
    @ProbablyJacob 7 днів тому +1

    Literally stopping in the middle of my low IQ menial delivery job to say that the fact that the guest completely dodged anastasias questioning at the 40 min mark and completely willfully ignores the obvious socioeconomic and political problems with structuring society around inherited traits and the historical precedents surrounding this topic already on record and then immediatly begged for funding definitely says something about the quality of our academics

  • @knowcoiner5599
    @knowcoiner5599 9 днів тому +1

    This podcast made me realize the effectiveness of communist revolutions was the social engineering of low IQ majority by high IQ minority, by giving moral justification to base instincts (sophistry) and fueling resentment / victimhood.

    • @knowcoiner5599
      @knowcoiner5599 9 днів тому

      Most takeovers by Marxist social engineers begins with the administrative bloat / human resources, and wield enormous control over institutions and corporations until things become untenable.

  • @SitDownAndHaveALook
    @SitDownAndHaveALook 9 днів тому

    This way lies true peace and progress.

  • @Jules-Is-a-Guy
    @Jules-Is-a-Guy 7 днів тому

    1:43:25 You all should really check out Dario Nardi's work. Jungian neuroscientist who started coming up with some decent answers to this type of question.

  • @CalebDiT
    @CalebDiT 8 днів тому

    IQ is a measure of utility within a given culture. Put another way, IQ is a measure of utility in the eyes of the test creators.
    1. An African bushman does poorly on an American IQ test.
    2. An American does poorly on a hypothetical bushman IQ test.
    3. The Flynn effect follows the effect of education centered around a given value. As STEM fields become more valued in our culture and thus STEM studies have become prioritized even in primary education, of course average IQ is (was) rising.
    4. Yes, you can prepare for and improve your score on IQ tests. The gentleman describes this in the negative, saying your poor scores reflect your below-average mental state, whereas the truth of it is that you can improve your average beyond just memorizing answers, but learning about the peculiarities and demands of IQ tests.
    One question that's always tickled my curiosity is, how well do IQ test writers do on their own IQ tests?

  • @jaysphilosophy1951
    @jaysphilosophy1951 8 днів тому

    I get seizures now, so I'm definitely lower.....

  • @themrcharlessjpg
    @themrcharlessjpg 8 днів тому

    39:55 IMO it wouldn't be about raising IQ because of it's standarization previously discussed. We should use this herculean approach to intelligence in order to raise productivity in seamless ways, ways in which incorporate more human collaboration with artificial intelligence integration. To quote the power of now "it often it is not in what it is you are doing, but in the HOW" hahahah

  • @danny_invadio
    @danny_invadio 9 днів тому

    I don't like how you guys' smolder and nod your heads at the same time xD.

  • @myfriendscat
    @myfriendscat 9 днів тому +1

    Define Success

    • @anautonomousagent
      @anautonomousagent 9 днів тому +2

      From MW: 1a degree or measure of succeeding
      b favorable or desired outcome
      also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence
      2: one that succeeds
      3obsolete : outcome, result

    • @yassver
      @yassver 9 днів тому +1

      Define define

    • @anautonomousagent
      @anautonomousagent 9 днів тому +2

      @@yassver If you want word games I suggest you see Wittgenstein.

    • @DemystifySci_Podcast
      @DemystifySci_Podcast  9 днів тому +4

      Words are all we have here

  • @Eman_Puedama
    @Eman_Puedama 9 днів тому

    Slightly off-topic, but I wonder if the fact that the Flynn effect is slowing down could be a prediction of Rupert Sheldrake's theory that it's explicable by morphic resonance?
    If it's a case of the collective unconscious getting 'practice' at IQ tests, then wouldn't you expect that to start to peak at a certain point the way it does with other skills?
    I also wondered if questions which are designed to test fluid intelligence rather than crystallised intelligence are less susceptible to the Flynn effect.
    I'm halfway through and I haven't heard Dr Heier use those terms so I don't know if he thinks they're valid.
    I assumed that fluid intelligence was equivalent to G, but I expect I'm oversimplifying.

  • @williamturner-v1s
    @williamturner-v1s 8 днів тому

    I wish you would have asked him explicitly if there is a relationship between values and IQ. I'm curious about the answer he would give. You almost did.

  • @drkzilla
    @drkzilla 8 днів тому

    Polygenic scores weird me out. Actually statistics weird me out 😅

  • @jaysphilosophy1951
    @jaysphilosophy1951 8 днів тому

    I live in the Southeast and we are getting dumber......That for true.

  • @RayUp
    @RayUp 9 днів тому

    5:05
    Sooooo #TerrenceHoward is a genius IRT?

  • @drummersagainstitk
    @drummersagainstitk 9 днів тому +2

    No.

  • @andybaldman
    @andybaldman 9 днів тому

    The world needs Walmart workers just as much as AI engineers. The only difference is there are far more Walmart workers available. Hence the pay difference. Supply and demand is independent of utility to society.

  • @TheDeadlyDan
    @TheDeadlyDan 10 днів тому +8

    See how radically different a human brain is from a digital computer? This is why I always say "AI as presently created and employed is nothing more than a fancy calculator". AI takes one small aspect of Intelligence and models it. That model only performs a simulation of that one small aspect. This is why it's called Artificial Intelligence rather than Intelligence. The current corporate hype around AI is nothing more than willful participation in mistaking the map for the territory. Makes the stock jump.

    • @DemystifySci_Podcast
      @DemystifySci_Podcast  10 днів тому +4

      Interesting I felt like they were more similar after this podcast, as it's basically cross referencing everything to itself

    • @neilcreamer8207
      @neilcreamer8207 9 днів тому +1

      I'm with you, Dan. What he said reinforced the impression I had that AI is unrelated to human thinking because we don't even have a good idea what that is and AI people have seemed especially ignorant from that perspective. That said, this could be an out-of-date impression. I think current research towards AGI is a lot more cognisant of the gulf between what AIs do compared to what humans do.

    • @Osoronnophris
      @Osoronnophris 9 днів тому +1

      Digital computers are built by human brains to calculate solutions for human problems. Quantum computers designed and built entirely by AI that has upgraded itself beyond our own parameters is a whole other story

    • @Osoronnophris
      @Osoronnophris 9 днів тому +1

      What I see is the constant human need to feel special or important or king of the hill or whatever.

    • @TheDeadlyDan
      @TheDeadlyDan 9 днів тому +1

      @@Osoronnophris Quantum computers are just peripherals at this point in time. There's no such thing as a quantum operating system. Quantum computers are simply an addition to a digital computer.

  • @boohoo746
    @boohoo746 9 днів тому

    environmental interventions at an early age. something comes to mind, but I can't vocalize it.

  • @kalyasaify
    @kalyasaify 9 днів тому

    I really have to say it: this dude talks like he knows what he's talking about but average ppl simply can't understand the mind of a genius. it's not only about the brain, it's SO MUCH MORE. idk man, people should accept who they are...

  • @jaydenwilson9522
    @jaydenwilson9522 9 днів тому

    1:03:50
    Psychos, skitzos and normies. (Wolves, black sheep and white sheep)

  • @isitme1234
    @isitme1234 8 днів тому

    Hahaha yogi bear

  • @themrcharlessjpg
    @themrcharlessjpg 8 днів тому

    50:00 yes, or other places that allow for the copy and paste of chatgpt without any modification of ANYTHING hahahahahhaha

  • @WmJames-rx8go
    @WmJames-rx8go 9 днів тому +1

    I have always wondered about the correctness of considering the speed of problem solving as being a proper metric for the measurement of IQ. Yet, somehow we know that it is important.
    Having said that, consider two eternal Beings (for the argument), one entity is quick with an answer, in fact almost always quick with all answers to questions given, while Being number two is more late to answer.
    Both #1 and #2 are aware of the most important unsolved problem in the Universe.
    Up to some point in time neither has been able to solve said problem. Then seemingly out of nowhere #2 solves the most important of all problems. Which of the two should be considered the most intelligent?