Cinema Motion Picture Film for Still Photography 🎥 🎞️ - An Overview!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лют 2024
- Let’s chat about color cinema or motion picture film and using it for still photography!!
Carmencita blog post: carmencitafilmlab.com/blog/ev...
Flic Film: flicfilm.ca
Atlanta Film Co: www.atlantafilmco.com
This Is How I Roll: / thisis_howiroll
Reflx Lab: reflxlab.com
Cinemot: cinemotfilm.com
===================================
Join the eclectachrome email newsletter crew!
►MONTHLY NEWSLETTER: eclectachrome.substack.com
SUBSCRIBE AND KEEP FILM ALIVE
===================================
►shop the gear I use (I've actually bought this stuff on amazon):
Developing tank: amzn.to/3O5yaBh
Darkbag: amzn.to/3UvtqJc
Chemistry bottles (if you don't have other ones to reuse): amzn.to/48I9838
Thermometer: amzn.to/3HO4ULU
Temperature control sous vide: amzn.to/4bt3uUz
Etone darkroom timer: amzn.to/3TTMAZ5
Distilled White Vinegar: amzn.to/48wAucC
120 Negative sleeves: amzn.to/4boYXT4
35mm Negative sleeves: amzn.to/3SKvX0L
Instax wide film: amzn.to/3SM8GvF
Instax square film: amzn.to/484kmxW
I set up an Amazon Associates account which earns the channel something on purchases that qualify :) I've linked items that I 100% recomend and use myself.
#filmphotography #analogphotography #filmcommunity - Наука та технологія
at 9:53 another way this film is marketed is in 70mm canisters, like the Canon/Nikon 750 backs, but used in Linhof Cine backs, (like a normal 120 but using 135 like canisters inside, housing the 70mm film on spools); Mamiya Rb-67 and some other cameras use this style of backs too (Linhof aero Technika, for arial photos uses this style of film).
at 3:06 there is one other point, Large format Sheet film does have this, on some emulsions, as this protects the film from reflections from the holder septum, bouncing back and creating a 'double exposure', ghosting, etc.
Also, from what I've heard (from watching UA-cam videos on movie camera loading), the film is weaker, so if a jam occurs, it breaks, a sacrificial material; as this is best when you don't want a $200,000 Panavision camera to be sent off for repairs!! ( from my research they develop this "neg" into a print negative, which is what the projectors use).
CineStill doesn’t remove the rem jet anymore. They just get uncut master rolls from Kodak without the rem jet. That’s how they can do 120 without the perforations showing in the image.
Yessss they do it that way!
MOLLLLLYYYYYY…. Lovely video… just in time to perfectly sync with me as I’ve just shot a bunch of motion picture film AND IN EXCITED FOR THE RESULTS!!
after looking at all you’re it’s just so inspiring.
Thank you again for such a cool video. And love the adidas top ✌️
YESSSS I cant wait to see what you shot!!!!! hehe that's one of my favorites!!! thank youuuuuuu :) you're the best :D
Good fun review. Look forward to part 2 with your developing skills on show.
Thanks!! It was fun doing the dev so looking forward to finishing that video!
Thank you very much for the super-informative video - I'll probably have to try it out soon.
Thanks! Yeah give it a go 😊
Cinema film is my favorite. I wish smalller format films would get more attention from Kodak though- double perf 16mm and classic double 8 would be interesting to see make a return.
There was a company in the 1970s, Seattle Film Works, that sold 35mm movie positive film and processed it as slides. I shot it because I was a poor college student, but I liked the slides.
Oh very cool, yeah I remember the name now! Nothing beats looking at slides
Thanks for the great overview. I just bought 10 rolls of UltraFine Motipix 50D & 250D. These are respooled Kodak Vision 3 films in metal cassettes. Really looking forward to shooting and developing these.
awesome, have fun!!
Really cool video Molly…looking forward to that ECN2 developing video as I have never done it myself 👌🏽😎
Thanks Armando!! It’s cool to be able to do it at home, might release it next week!!
Great video Molly, I just got two rolls of Refix Labs (Kodak) Vision 250D back from Graination Lab in Toronto and they did a superb job processing in ECN-2 with a two day turn around time. I just have to scan them.
Thanks Bill!! That’s a fantastic turnaround time!! Let me know how they turn out, will you do a blog post for them?
This was super helpful! Thanks 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Yeah, the lighting is cool. Very cool.
Thank you 🙏 😊
Thanks Molly. When I was an animation cameraman we used to be left with short ends of Kodak and Fuji motion picture film that would just get thrown because we were loading 400ft rolls into the magazine and a couple of feet left on the roll no use. I loaded these into film cassettes - not a full 36 exposure because the film is thicker. It had to be filtered because of being tungsten balanced but once I'd shot the roll I'd take it out of the cassette and send it to the lab with the day's rushes (dailies for US viewers) from what ever film we were shooting. Processed overnight and get back a roll of positive images and a roll of negatives the next morning. All for free. Happy days.
sounds amazing!!! what a hookup :D
250D is beautiful. I bought it in a 100 foot bulk roll to save money on colour film. We have a few labs about an hour away that offers ECN2.
That’s nice they are so close! I love 250D, awesome that you bulk load it!!
With a friend we bought 100ft roll of 250D and I love it!
The colours, the latitute of the film is amazing.
The only problem is the processing in house, which is stinky 😂 and how many steps you need. But other than that I totally recommended. I wish I have a lab around here where I can develop the film instead of leaving my whole bathroom smelly 😅.
haha what kit are you using? the flic film kit didn't smell too bad! or at all actually! but that's a great thing to go in on with a friend or multiple friends!! yeah 250D LOVE it :)
Great explanation!
Thanks!
I really love the Vision 250D (my heart is torn between this one and the Gold 200 😅), in France we have Sunbath who re-spool motion picture film and they also have an amazing lab so they offer very affordable rates for developing their films. That was a really cool video :D Love your energy.
thank you!! thanks for watching and also so cool to learn about Sunbath, sounds great!! very cool they both respool the film and also process it :)
Tungsten film can be easily balanced in post to look like daylight films. I do it every time on my 500T rolls
yes definitely! or a warming filter could be used, I forgot to mention that!
My local film shop sells respooled vision3 and processes it! She can do ecn2 or c41 too :3
That’s awesome!!
I am so happy that you said there was a tool for opening the flic film style canisters. I ordered one from Freestyle. I guess i'm an idiot because I have just been ripping those things open for a couple years now. Thank you.
That’s what I did!! Haha yeah it was great to learn about it, let me know how it goes!
Very interesting and informative. And nice Saab at 17:58!
thanks for watching!! and yes that was a random house i passed by in town, beautiful car!!
Loved seeing pics of my hometown Laconia. I used to jump off that footbridge by the damn as a kid until the cops chased us away. That dock at the end looked too long for Laconia did you also go to Meredith or Wolfboro? I used another brad of cinema film QWD (quiet we’re dreaming). I had it processed at Old School photo in Dover and got really good results.
so cool!! yeah I went to Meredith!! haha the water looks so inviting to swim in in the summer :) oh yess I saw that but haven't tried them, good to know, I'll have to try them in the future! Love Old School Photo, the quality of their work is really great!!
Great overview!
Thanks Billy!!
Shooting Motion Picture film is an art form all on it's own, there's so many variables to take into consideration when taking your shots, developing the film and post production colour grading. It's also the film that saved Kodak. Without the who's who of Directors, including Spielberg and Tarrantino, insisting the major movie studios sign a deal with Kodak to keep them supplied with Motion Picture film, Kodak would have gone. They could not have survived on stills film and brand licencing alone. All three were key to Kodak remaining in business.
Yeah Hollywood definitely has a strong influence there absolutely - I hope it continues!!
First of all I love Double-X. But as far as ECN-2 films I tend to stay away from them except for Cinestill 800&50. They've always needed some photoshopping after the scan, but I've found them to be pretty versatile, especially 800T. I have an 85B filter that I use outdoors and really don't need any of the other speeds that often. There is a small lab about 90min away from me in Denver that will be selling Vision3 in 35mm cartridges and offering ECN-2 processing services for still photographers so I'm eager to try them out!
nice!! do you process your own too? the 85b filter I've heard is really good for those films, need to try one!
@@Eclectachrome I haven't processed black & white film in a while, and I've never done C-41, that always went to a local camera store. There is a motion picture lab about 1.5hrs drive North of me in Denver that will soon be offering ECN-2 processing and cut rolls of Vision3 films just like Silbersalz, so I might be taking advantage of that soon.
I've been doing it in C-41. Colours are a bit wonky but still good results.
nice! how do you scan/convert? i always find it tricky doing that part of it
Adding another new film stock - Mira Color 400, mainly available in France and EU. It is Classic Kodak 250D Cinematic film, without remjet stock. Can therefore be developed in the usual C-41 process. They had released the 1st test late last year and I had fun with it. Even for a test batch. As I understand, they are launching the 2nd batch. Loves light (even if it is a 400 iso), greens and reds. They are also super fast and friendly, chatty over Instagram
Awesome, will check them out, thanks!! Sounds cool 😎
How do these films end up looking if developed with C41 vs ECN2? I've tried some sans remjet, lab processed C41, so curious. Btw, you should try Harman's new Phoenix 200. Still in development, but a very neat retro look!
That would be a good comparison with a controlled test! And I have, there’s a recent video on my channel about it 😊😁😎👍
Awesome! Wow -- that was a good 3-hour lecture class boiled down to under 20 minutes -- with lots of PowerPoint slides to go along with it!!! And a good 3 hours of enthusiasm squeezed into it also! Great to get all of this info and see great example photos!!! Always a joy to watch your videos....
Haha thank youuuuuuu, always nice to get your positive and enthusiastic comments too!!!!!! 🫶🏼😊😊
The Adidas track suit would be a better outfit for a video on smena or moskva cameras XD
😂 I’ll have to get one of those
Reflx Lab sells 220 Aero these days too 😊 Anxious to see if they start selling Vision 3 in 220.
That would be awesome!!
Having extensive experience with the Jobo ECN-2, I doubt I'll ever go back to any C41. The price/performance ratio with Vision 3 is just so high.
Another great video!
Oh the Jobo sounds great, they have high quality stuff, thank you!!
@@Eclectachrome So far I've used up two of their kits through my CPE-3 - super easy. I'm now working on dialing in Kodak XX rotary processing 😁 The movie films are just so good and cheap.
Movie film isn’t flat because it’s meant to be color graded. Carmencita gets that wrong about movie film just as pretty much every stills photographer. ECN2 films are flatter because they’re designed to be printed. Either directly onto movie print stock or intermediate stocks for further copying and to protect the original camera negative. People keep think it’s flat for digital color grading because it’s scanned flat, but the ECN2 process is much older than film digitization. Scanning film flat has different reasons, some to do with saving hard drive space and data bandwidth. Movie print film simply has more contrast than RA4 darkroom paper for C41 films and copying through multiple generations also increases contrast, so ECN2 films are flatter.
Hey thanks so much for all the info!! But the film is still flat so it would need to be digitally color graded these days anyways right? But then back when there was only film, it went through something similar just an analogue process so to speak?
@@Eclectachrome It’s not really flat. Scan some 250D negs and compare them with Portra 400 negs scanned the same way, these two films are very similar to each other. ECN2 films are a bit flatter than C41 film but they’re not really flat. Movie scanners scan the film with a much much flatter contrast curve that it’s meant to be changed again for viewing. It’s very different from “Flat Scans” you might get from a lab.
Any footage for a movie needs to be color graded to match shots in a scene that was filmed over many horse or even days and to create a look for the movie. But was the case in the all analog days too. Back then the process was similar to making color prints in the darkroom on RA4 paper. The movie negative would be printed onto print stock and during the printing process they could change the global RGB and density values to match shots and create a look. Then these printer points for each shot would be applied to make an inter positive from the camera negative which would have the color changes backed in. The inter positive would be printed onto a dupe negative from which final release prints for theaters would be made. The whole process is called color timing. Paul Thomas Anderson and Christopher Nolan still use it. When you watch a print of Oppenheimer, all the color changes were done with RGB density points only and the image (except for the 100ish shots that were composited in the computer) never went through a digital interpretation. What you’re seeing is pure Kodak Vision3 on Vision 2838 print stock the way it was all meant to look. And this is not a low contrast subtle saturation look.
Did you remove the remjet layer from your hair? Because. Halatiously smooth!
I'm glad you noticed!! LOL flic film kit is dual purpose!! :p
@@Eclectachrome lol definitely worth the investment 😄
Tungsten is made for tungsten lamps. Wouldn't work with neon. Or white led. Daylight is made for true sunlight color temperature. Which means you could have pretty much the same colors with a white flash.
cool! thanks for adding!!
Many, MANY, moons ago when I was in college -- I was a 'Film' major -- about 2/3rd about motion pictures -- storyline, plots, drama, acting -- and 1/3rd about the technology of film-making. This was pre-digital photography/movies/TV. And color-grading of film is a real 'art' and technically very tricky and expensive -- you try out the color grade, 'burn' it to film from the original camera film, then get it developed and screened to see if it worked! If not, do it all again. Not nearly as easy as color grading digital video today. So the base films were somewhat 'flat' -- as you can see from the C41 results of motion-picture film now -- but nowhere near as flat as the 'Log' color profiles in many digital cameras today -- some of those are so 'flat' that they look like there is very little color information recorded at all (but there is) -- that gives a huge amount of flexibility in color grading, but the process is a lot 'easier' today -- pull the footage up in your computer in your editing software, click a few things and apply many different types of color grades/changes and see the results in real time. With film it was way too time-consuming and expensive to risk/allow that much flexibility, so the typical cinema film had a 'mild' Log profile -- and you can often see this reflected in the 'Made For TV' movies of the 1970's and 1980's -- where little to no time (and $$$) was spent on color grading before final editing and broadcasting. Many of those films have a lackluster color to them -- and that's not due to time and fading, I grew up them and that was how they looked when first broadcast on TV. But these days most still film shooters have access to the same digital editing tools as digital film-makers, but to use on their scanned still images. So it would be interesting if someone released a really 'flat' Log still film -- giving a *lot* of color-grading flexibility in post. Personally I rarely edit my film scans at all -- I grew up where pretty much your prints reflected what you captured with the camera and film. The photo-printing labs might bump the color/exposure a teeny bit in printing, but that was it. So I like to try to capture the best that I can *in camera* -- so I really research what each type of film 'should' look like before I run out and shoot it. And I like, or do not like, the 'unedited' look of specific films (love the warmth of Kodak ColorPlus 200 and Gold 200 -- they remind me of the consumer color films and results from when I was a kid). Whew -- sorry for going on and on!!!
No worries!! I love hearing about your experience and what it was like to color grade the film when there was only film and not the digital tools we have today. Sounds like an intense process to do that!! gosh can you imagine what that costs today?!? crazy stuff. but yeah I'm glad we have the digital tools to work with that today! and I hear what your saying about wanting to shoot something that you don't have to edit or color grade, ColorPlus is one of my favorites and Gold is great too! It's always nicer to have it look a certain way out of the gate!
There are companies that respool ORWO. For example, the Kino series from Lomography is respooled ORWO.
oh interesting, I thought that since some of Lomography's film says made in that area where they are...but it's not confirmed by either companies right?
I don't think it is officially confirmed anywhere, but confirmed by inspection from the community. haha
@@ThingOfSome haha ok different things!!
@@Eclectachrome Given how typical respooling/repackaging is and that there were only a few film producers, confirming by inspection is essentially the same.
I guess regular film is getting back in stock. But the prices are still as if there was no stock. Orwo film you can get 100ft for 122 euro. Which comes down to +/- 7 euro per roll.
that's fabulous about the Orwo film price - bulk loading is absolutely a great way to save more on film!
One problem with ECN-2 film is that it is not really compatible with RA-4 papers for printing in a darkroom. Thesa are films that are originally made for printing to positive print films in the movie industry. Movies these days are made mostly digitally. even when shot on film, with color grading and cutting. This of course means they can be used for digital processing for still pictures too. But don´t assume it will print without problems in analog process. Also, it will have wild color crossing if developed in C-41 chemistry, which can be dealt up to a certain point with in hardcore photoshopping. On RA-4 printed in darkroom, it would mean things like green skies and magenta pavement on a single frame.
That’s a bummer!! Can you adjust the color filters or dials in the darkroom a certain way to make it come out okay?
@@Eclectachrome There are some issues in that. First, ECN negatives are flat, and printing flat negatives to a low contrast paper (like all the RA-4 stuff is) has its problems. The colors have also problems with crossover, because the materials are not fully compatible, and the paper will not produce exactly the color it is supposed to produce with film. With films cross processed in C-41, this problem is bigger - with the negatives being also dense. This is the reason CineStill sells 500T as a 800 ISO film.
Color crossover is a problem that is very hard to address in darkroom, because it means you could have areas in your picture that are too green and too magenta at the sama time. Or too blue and too yellow. Normally, when you correct the too magenta color, it means also making the picture more green. It will then make the too green spots even worse.
That said, some photographers like the results they get from cross processing, and there are tricks around these problems. Some suggest overdeveloping in ECN-2 chemistry to get nicer negatives for printing. Personally, I have found these materials being not worth the effort for darkroom printing. Another issue is that ECN-2 developer does not keep well, but must be used in about a week after mixing.
OrWo sells their motion picture films in 135 cartridges for still photography. They don’t use a rem jet and weirdly it seems like their movie films have been designed for C41. Their color films are pretty trashy in a GDR kind of way.
yeah orwo is a different story but interesting!! I'm glad someone else aside from kodak though is making cine film, always good to have more than one in case something ever happens :)
There is one thing, I always wondered about. Shouldn’t motion picture film be slide film ? It doesn’t make sense to put a color negative film into a projector. 🤔
Cinema stocks for filming are different to what is used for projecting
yeah i think someone else said too that they transfer the filming to something else, but need to do more research about that part of the process! fascinating though!!
Silbersalz isn’t very good. They probably have the best spooled film since it seems to be done by Ilford. But their development is very large scale so your film gets linked to others, cutting through the last frame and the negatives I got back from them were dirty with drying marks and stuffed fused onto the film base. Their scanning also pretty much marking BS with the whole 14K thing, which is absurd for 35mm. The colors are pretty unevenly balanced not really giving the Vision print look the claim to produce and the dynamic range isn’t too great either. The scanner doesn’t handle underexposure well at all.
Also it takes way too long and too much work to get your negatives back from them.
Film Speed Lab in Germany does ECN2 by hand and a decent job.
On Film Lab also in Germany does ECN2 films in a standard Fuji processor in C41 after removing the rem jet. Processing ECN2 films in C41 gives the higher contrast of stills films which helps with labs scanners and printing in the darkroom.
Bummer you had a bad experience with them, but great that you can access Film Speed Lab!! They sound nice!
@@Eclectachrome I mean it’s all Germany, which is where I live.