The Case for Cessationism | Pastor Tom Pennington
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Have the miraculous gifts ceased or do they continue today? What does the Bible teach? What are they key arguments for cessationism vs. continuationism?
In this episode of the #SoundWordsPodcast, Pastor Tom Pennington walks us through 7 biblical arguments for why the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are no longer exercised today.
Pastor Tom Pennington is the Pastor-Teacher at Countryside Bible Church (@CountrysideBibleChurch in Southlake, TX. Prior to that, he served at Grace Church (@GraceChurchSunValley as the managing director of Grace to You (@gracetoyou Elder, Associate Pastor, and Personal Assistant to Pastor John MacArthur.
He’s written a book on this subject titled, A Biblical Case for Cessationism: Why the Miraculous Gifts of the Spirit Have Ended - amzn.to/3ziBapo.
#SoundWords #LSB #LegacyStandardBible #Bible
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Cessationism: The case for "unbelief". I have watched debates on this at the end of the day its simply unbelief.
Yep! Pure unbelief. It’s pitiable honestly, they deny themselves and others all God has for them in salvation.
Cessationist: No "sign-gift" has been operative for the past 1,924 years.
Atheist: Hooray! We agree ... except it's closer to 16 billion years.
I say those who claim to perform miracles are liars!!!! I believe the word of God and people who believe man has the gifts of the spirit to perform miracles are calling God a liar
@@justkeepnitreal4198 You posted nonsense. Nothing you said about what you believe tells us a single word about what the Bible says. Please make better arguments.
Have you listened to anything they said?? Obviously not. This is way you don't understand, you don't listen when someone is explaining. Your reply: The case for biblical ignorance.
Thanks Tom! Raised a PK in a Pentecostal church. 3 years in a Pentecostal Bible College. After years of doubt and questions… Through the teaching of John MacArthur and your book, “A Biblical Case for Cessationism,” and God’s Word, I have been set free. Thank you! 😊 Thank you Jesus!
I was ever baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1971. It was for me so overwhelming that I’ve never doubted it. It was in a former Catholic convent which was sold and taken over by Episcopalians. It was used as a church as well as a disciple training place.
Hi, the Catholic Church does not preach the biblical gospel, they reject the biblical teaching that we are saved by faith alone in Jesus.
@@changedman6035 Uh, it was in a FORMER Catholic convent bought by non Catholics. Maybe I didn’t make my self clear.
@@8Throtl1 John MacArthur is a enemy to millions of Christian’s
Excellent conversation!
I met Dr. Pennington at the G3 2023 Conference in Atlanta. I was so looking forward to going to the G3 conference in Oklahoma in October 2024. But I had to cancel my reservation.
Thank you for this video!
THIS content is what I am starving for!!!
women can work miracles through Jesus too
Actually, the Bible cleared that the gifts will continue in the church. That’s why he gave them to the Church.
Good video, the sufficiency of scripture says it all for me
it didn't use to have misogyny in it!
Assuming that this was taped after his heart incident, he's looking well.
God is sooooo good - the event has only a 5% survival with no other damages (heart/brain) we are giving THANKS & PRAISE
What a super helpful discussion! Thank you very much for this content.
Cessationism is obsessed with charismatic people, over the top obsession. Christians speak in tongues whether you believe it or not and just because you don't believe in it, it won't change one thing about it EVER !!
They never speak in actual languages tho. So what happened to THAT gift??... All we hear is babble with no interpretation...scripture does NOT support this.Test all things in light of scripture and hold on to what is TRUE.
@@MinLeeMajors out of all the times tongue is mentioned in the Bible, ONLY ONCE are known human languages explicitly connected with the incident. That one time is Pentecost, on the other hand when Paul is discussing tongues in 1 Corinthians, he’s absolutely including speaking in unknown potentially non human languages. Plus he literally commands us to not forbid speaking in tongues. I think I’ll go with Paul on this one, sorry cessationists
They’re obsessed because aggressive, educated, Spirit-filled Christians are a major threat to lies like Cessationism
@@TheJMan31what a weak argument! Biblical gift - a gift of the Holy Spirit is a human language miraculously spoken or interpreted without being learnt. Gibberish is not same as tongues.
but you all go overboard and God knows you love your man made gender roles too that were never in the original scriptures before the roman church and political people such as Kings changed it along with nuts like Plato and Aristotle. Let go Misogynists and abuse against the gifts when none of you exercise the fruit of self control before marriage or towards teenage girls. Stop the abuse in general!
This was excellent! So clear, well-articulated, and most importantly, Biblical.
Not as biblical as you might suppose. Very selective in his usage of Scripture. And either ignorant or closed to the Scriptures that clearly contradict his view.
Been praying in tongues for 44 years. The gifts have never ceased. 600-650 million of us still praying in tongues
Nope
What's the purpose of you praying in tongues?
@@veekee75 absolutely nothing.
I don’t think what you’re doing is speaking in tongues. I believe you believe it is. But I believe you are in a hyper suggestive state akin to what many former pentecostals speak of
I too have spoken in tongues since receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost for 36 years.
I can see making a case for the false teachers using tongues because of the unbiblical way they use them in certain churches. But for those of us who do follow Biblical guidelines, we are often lumped in together with heretics.
Like in so many things, debate polarizes positions, and the true middle gets cut out.
How come People who boast of Sola Scriptura can't find one Scripture to support Cessationism except rely on their experience to advance Cessationism. The New Testament has many Scriptures advancing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit including " forbid not to speak in tongues " and " despise not Prophesying " . I will go with Scripture above anybody's opinion.
These are very well thought out and supported arguments. Well done!
Thought out yet not scriptural
Not historically accurate. Augustine believed the gifts continued, as did many other people in church history.
You are centered in your unbelief.
Anyone who denies the Biblical work and power of the Father is rightly labeled a heretic.
Anyone who denies the Biblical work and power of Christ is rightly labeled a heretic.
Anyone who denies the Biblical work and power of the Holy Spirit is given an ill fitting suit and a degree from Master’s Seminary.
Why is this? Why do they think they can get away with rejecting a member of the Holy Trinity without severe consequences?
Anyone who does not know how to read the bible and is deceived by his own flesh the devil and a false church will have to stand before God and explain his willful Ignorance of scripture. God help you come out of your deception. So show me the scripture that proves all the gifts continue today.
Ephesians 4:7-8
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Has God changed? Then neither have his gifts. They are for the edification of the body. I would add that gifts are the Lord's to give. And take away. But I also believe that the miracles abound where access to God's word is limited.
Negative
"For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."
Romans 11:29
I believe this verse is true.
Jesús is the Word and He performed miracles and gifts. We only have the Bible. We only see and know in part. If Jesus being the Word saw no issues with performing healings, casting out demons and miracles, then why do we? Atheist see Christianity as just another religion with no power and you agree with them. Unbelievable!
Ephesians 4:7-8
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
there has been healing and miracles today,
Who needs Jesus when you have John MacArthur 😂😂
Moronic and ignorant reply on your part. You don't listen very well.
The gifts of the Spirit are for the "Church". The church age ends at the rapture. I have a gift of the Spirit operating in me for 46 years. The gift of Discerning of spirits.
I do
So every promise in the book isn’t yours like the promise of the Father in Luke 24:49 and Acts 2:39?
Maybe I missed it what is the Foundation of the Church. Is it Ephesians 2:20 the Apostles Prophets and Jesus Christ as The Chief Cornerstone? If it is Why do we neglect the Ascension Gifts Of Ephesians 4:11-16 that Jesus Gave with Explanation why? If the Apostles and Prophets are Still working then all the gifts should still be functioning. If the gifts used by Apostles and Prophets aren’t functioning how are we being saved?
Because scripture, the Word, (essentially the mind of Christ) is present and powerful and sufficient for everything we need for salvation and living in Him! We don’t need new apostles, when we have the living Christ in His Word and in the Holy Spirit!
Explain then why in Ephesians 2:20 that Jesus made the foundation of the Church Apostles Prophets and Jesus as the Chief Cornerstone.
If the Apostles and Prophets the Foundation aren’t needed, neither are the teachers evangelists or preachers by your own words. Jesus gave us the 5 fold ministry for preparing His Bride the Church for Him. Do you see that Church Now? Go back and read Ephesians 2:20& 4:11-16.
If your listening to Jesus what are you doing? The Word was meant to teach us and use what he has given us. I find it fascinating people who say their listening to God are missing a lot of the best they could have.
Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away! Are 1 cor. 13 and 14 not His words?
Cessationists: SOLA SCRIPTURA! (Minus the verse we don’t like)
The new covenant came with gifts. Are we under a third covenant with the cessation of gifts? Do cessationists pray for sick people? If so, why? Do you believe that demons can inhabit people? What can you do about the demon possessed people?
Of the fivefold ministerial gifts, given to build up the church to the fullness of the maturity of Christ, have been reduced to three in the Cessationist's view. Since the ministries of apostles and phrophets have ceased. Why haven't the other three of teachers, evangelists amd shepherds, ceased as well?
Paul wasn't of the original 'twelve'. There were apostles in Paul's day. Though many were false apostles because of their false teaching and motivation that was not from the Holy Spirit.
This presentation presents many of the strengths of the cessationist view (and fair critique of some of the Continuationists practices), but should not be mistaken for a robust, complete, or accurate scriptural view (as the interviewer seems to think). Regarding tongues, the speaker has not carefully worked his way through what Paul teaches and affirms in 1 Cor. 14, his understanding of biblical miracles in clusters is truish but overstated, and his early church history is inaccurate. Mainly though, he has overlooked or ignored clear biblical teaching that opposes his position. More careful Scripture study will reveal: there is no indication we should expect the gifts to end prior to Christ’s coming, we are warned to not despise them and are urged to use discernment, and all gifts bear the empowering imprint of the Holy Spirit (we should not be classifying some gifts as ongoing and others as ceasing). Let God be God and do His purposes. This accounts for all the data.
Churches speak in tongues more than preaching against sin, spreading the gospel and making disciples for the kingdom, which Christ commanded the believers. Speaking in tongues isn’t real. It would be an easier argument if there was so many people abusing the scripture.
Proverbs 3: 35, and the wise shall Glory but shame shall be the promotion of fools.
One instance and idea of the word Glory as it appears throughout the Bible can mean weight and Authority, Ephesians 4 says he gave some Apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors, and some teachers. All with distinct offices for the edification of the church and perfecting of the Saints until we come to the fullness of the stature of Christ basically until I become a reflection of who Jesus was in the Earth.
John 1 in the beginning was the word and the Word was God and the word was with God John 1:14 The word(: the message and the expression of God's ideas) became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld the glory of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth
There is no explicit doctrine of cessationism in the New Testament. However, it does say that the spiritual gifts are distributed as the Holy Spirit wills and decides. God can decide to not give the miraculous gifts to Christian’s at a historical point in time. So have you seen a Christian today speak in a foreign language he didn’t know? Have you seen a Christian impart power to a quadriplegic that resulted in complete healing? Have you seen a Christian give sight to a blind man? That’s what you have to ask.
Does God still work miracles? Cessationists would say yes of course. Can God use Christian’s in the working of miracles? Yes. Does God give the continual working of miracles like he did with the Apostles? No, there’s no person today that has a gift in themselves to work miracles
@@1989pfrost
Show me two scriptures that say that. In the witness of two or three, let every word be confirmed. Jesus is the Word and some people think because we have the Bible the gifts have ceased. Jesus was the Word made flesh and he saw no issues performing miracles and healings. Atheist don’t believe the Bible but they could be convinced with miracles, casting out demons and healings.
Ephesians 4:7-8
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
We have plenty of scriptures to support our position, the unbelievers have none.
@@johnortiz566 2 Corinthians 13:1 has nothing to do with establishing doctrine, so you can’t twist it to make a rule of it. It’s about addressing sin within the Church.
You wouldn’t expect the NT to address the gifts ceasing because it was written during the time of the Apostles on whom the foundation of the church was laid (Eph 2:20).
We have writings from church fathers from as early as the 2nd century stating matter of factly that the gifts ceased after the time of the Apostles. Men who would have been alive to witness the miracles now say they are dying away.
Sure atheists could be convinced but many were not convinced by the miracles of Jesus. They didn’t care about His message they only wanted to see the miracles.
Can you show me one person today, who like Peter are healing people just by their shadow? Or people who are inerrant in their prophesy?
We have 2000 years of church history and biblical interpretation on our side, you have a bunch of heretics from the 20th century like Charles F Parham on yours.
To your three very relevant questions: No. Yes. Yes.
@@paulsccduffwhere did the yes yes happen?
Let's consider the evidence Peter and Paul said the gifts continue until Christ's return ...
The coming of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) was accompanied by the manifestation of tongues. It was what drew the crowd's attention to the apostles and those with them. Peter declared what they were seeing and hearing was synonomous with the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. So, when he told the crowd, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," he was saying they would receive the same Holy Spirit that had just fallen on the apostles. Further, that same Holy Spirit that had just been observed, was "for you and your children and for all who are far off - for all whom the Lord our God will call." Peter is clearly saying what you have just seen continues until God stops calling people.
Paul's letter to the Corinthians arrives in A.D. 53 or 54. It's important to recognize this is a letter meant to be understood at the time by its recipients. It's not a riddle. It contains its own referents and it explains itself.
Among those who first hear it in the Corinthian church are believers who will still be alive after all the apostles have died and -- cessationists say -- gifts have ceased. He begins: "... even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you - so that you are not lacking in any gift (charisma), as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Cor 1:6-8
There's nothing in Paul's introduction that indicates he's gaslighting them with false hopes. No one reading the letter had any reason to believe those gifts Paul linked to Christ's sustenance of his church were going to cease before "the end." NO ONE, including Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, thought the close of the canon in A.D. 100 (which would not be officially defined for another 300 years after that) was intended by anything in 1 Corinthians. The gifts -- charisma -- are linked to Christ's sustenance of his church "to the END" (teloj G5056 in Strong's Concordance).
Indeed, 1 Cor 1:6-8 becomes the referent for 1 Cor 13:8-10: "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the PERFECT (teleioj G5046 - from G5056) comes, the partial will pass away."
Anyone reading the letter in A.D. 53 would immediately recall what Paul said at the beginning of his letter. Not only are the two passages parallel in their idea, they are parallel in the Greek. Paul's "the perfect" (or "completeness," as others have translated it) is "teleioj," and derived from 1 Cor 1:8's "the end" -- "teloj" -- which Paul equates to "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Actually, [X-until-Y, where Y=Day of Our Lord Jesus Christ] is a recurrent theme in 1 Corinthians. In Chapter 5, Paul orders the church to remove the man who had his father's wife and "deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." DELIVERED TO SATAN--until--THE DAY OF THE LORD ... X-until-Y. In Chapter 11 Paul corrects abuses of the Lord's Table and links the bread and cup to the Lord's death and second coming: PROCLAIM THE LORD'S DEATH--until--SECOND COMING. He does it again in Chapter 13 with tongues and prophecy. Paul's time horizon is the end of time, not 50 years in the future when the last apostle has died.
Perhaps most significantly, he does it in Chapter 15 where he explicitly defines what he has meant by "the end," e.g. "teloj." Indeed, I've come to see this chapter as the primary reason he wrote the letter, because of all the troubles in the Corinthian church, this chapter addresses the most existential one.
Here, Paul addresses those in the church who were beginning to doubt the dead would be resurrected. Believers had died and were still in the ground nearly 25 years after Jesus was resurrected. That didn't fit expectations. Some had even begun to doubt Christ himself had risen from the dead. So Paul first makes clear the resurrection is the sine qua non of the faith -- no resurrection, then no hope, no faith, no forgiveness of sins. It's all-in or nothing.
He then lays out how it all goes down and caps it off in verse 24 with "THEN COMES THE END ... 'teloj'" He bookends his letter with "the END" in Chapters 1 and 15. Christ destroys every rule and authority and power ... he destroys the final enemy, death ... he delivers the kingdom to God the Father ... he subjects himself to the Father ... and God is all in all. Until then, exercise church discipline in light of and in expectation of the day of the Lord. He will sustain his church at His Table and by the gifts until the day of the Lord, and he commands the church to continue in them (1 Cor 11:26, 14:26-33). THEN COMES THE END ... the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is "the perfect" and "completeness" of Chapter 13. Paul, like Peter, has said gifts of the Spirit continue "to the end." If cessationsist were correct, Peter and Paul would have to be rejected as false prophets.
Cessationists who enjoy playing gotcha with charismatics and pentecostals over the very serious matter of false prophecy and other unbiblical antics might want to consider how seriously God views adding and subtracting from his word (Rev 22:18-19). False prophets only get stoned. Bible grifters lose their share in the tree of life.
Wow ! Very informative ! Thank You !
Two things that can’t exist at the same time. Self-control and charismatics having seizures in church “because they are filled with the spirit”.
Glosslalia is a pagan practice.
“Many pagan religions around the world are interested in tongues, including: Shamans in Sudan, The Shango cult of West Africa, The Zor cult of Ethiopia, The Voodoo cult of Haiti, and The Aborigines of Australia and South America.
In these religions, holy men may speak gibberish or murmur, and their words are interpreted as deep mystical insight”
@@ArmedShepherdand so you don't think there were fakes in biblical times? Why else would Paul have insisted that all be done in good order. The nonsense you're referencing is not of God. I totally agree. In fact, that stuff you see on TV with people falling over is a dark art. It's a show. So because a pastor doesn't lead his church in a biblical way, you're going to throw it all out? Stop it
@@Ark-Angel44 throw all of what out? The pagan stuff? Yes.
People use the Bible to deceive others, should we get rid of it because others use it wrongly? Your logic fails.
Sacrifice was also commonplace in many pagan faiths. So maybe we should disregard Jesus' sacrifice if we are to be consistent with your argument?
Why don’t you check out a book by An Anglican Priest by the Name Thomas Boys (1792-1880). In 1832 he published the Suppressed Evidence, or Proofs of the Miraculous Faith and Experience of the Church of Christ in all ages, from authentic records of the Fathers, Waldenses, Hussites..,
Him: What’s important is not what someone experiences but what the Bible says
Also Him: The Bible does not explicitly say the gifts will cease but we have evidence from church history (experience) that they cease
Only the evidence is very faulty eg. Citing Augustine
The gifts haven’t ceased. Sorry guys.
That’s a weak position, to say nowhere does it say the gifts will continue. If the gifts have been operating and continue to do so today because demons are being cast out, people are being healed with the laying on of the hands and people do pray in the Spirit with tongues, then why would anyone say they ceased? Why, because you haven’t experienced it? How could you if you don’t believe. The Bible is clear, don’t expect to receive anything from the Lord if you don’t have faith. The gifts operate through faith. What about the gift of discernment of spirits? How many churches are being deceived by deceiving spirits?
Jesus is the Word and He performed miracles. Jesus did not see the two conflicting. Jesus, the Word made flesh, and yet He performed healings and miracles. We have a Bible and think the gifts ceased because of it. Why can’t we have both, the gifts and the Bible. Who can say we don’t see in part? Who can say we don’t know in part? That which is complete has not come yet. That’s referring to the coming of the Lord Jesus. We will know Him as He knows us. To see God’s power move and brush it off and call it a farce is the height of arrogance.
Not only did ALL miracles done by men cease but all teachers and pastors (ephesians 4:11-15 and 1cor 13:8-13). Christ did a short work on earth which reconciled us by to the father. The relationship with the father was destroyed by Adam, which resulted in spiritual death (separated from God) Christ restored that relationship. We are in a new heaven and earth (Covenant) where in we walk in love through and in the spirit
The gifts havnt ceased. Simply put the is One Gift, that is the Holy Spirit, and He works in various ways and expressions. If the gifts have ceased then the Spirit has ceased and thats Blasphemy. Cessationism is heresy.
Cessationism is unbelief. Rejection of the Spirit.
Where is your proof of the spiritual gifts being present in this age? Give me a link and show me
@@postcodeox278 Mat - Rev
The bible says that tongues will cease. And they have.
Yeah, when "the perfect" comes, which contextually has nothing to do with the Canon of Scripture or the 70AD judgement or the death of the Apostles.
No, they have not…speaking in tongues everyday for years. Ask Jesus for the gift.
I'll listen to Paul and pick the better gift, "prophesy"! You keep babbling and I'll preach so they can understand me. God is great!
@@stevenstpierre7061 the same Paul that said he thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone? That Paul?
@dandeliontea7 yes he did...and that they would cease! I'm not saying that God can't use tongues as a sign TO THE UNSAVED for his purpose. Paul said he would much rather preach so people could understand the message
I’ll comment on this later but this is as from biblical exegesis as bill hosnon is. Cessationism is not I. The Bible and is as dangerous as NAR
They did not cease
Isaiah 28:11 is fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus... he spoke in tongues.... parables... the language of scripture. That being true... then all cessationists and continuationists are in big trouble. The spirit of antichrist is already here.
Only people who have never spoken in tounges argue against it
Wow. Either this guy is ignorant or dishonest. I hope it's just ignorance. All his arguments have been utterly refuted by Remnant Radio and Andrew Wilson after Strange Fire. Now, over 10 years later, he's still referencing Augustine and the church history argument when the clear evidence from Augustine supports continuationism, as does many other voices from church history. If he knew his stuff, he would at least remove that argument.
what a stupid argument, if thats the case you can also make a case for salvation being only avaliable for that age as well where do you stop...
Listen, this idea that there were 3 periods of MEN working miracles and that ended with so and so, so now there has been a Cessation of the Holy Spirit is not taught in scripture. Jesus was not recorded having done any supernatural works until after He was given the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John. The scripture says, "13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him ..."
Jesus told the Apostles what would happened when people "believed" the Gospel as they went out. Jesus said, " ... Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
The scripture then says something significant. It says, "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following."
Jesus indicated "believes" would have "signs" that followed them.
Not certain guys who did miracles to prove the 1st Century Church was authentic ! That isn't even how God thinks !
In Acts 1, Luke recorded the commissioning in this way, "2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen..." It doesn't say MEN ie. Apostles who were assigned the power to do miracles. It was the Holy Spirit who empowered the believers in every case. Jesus went on to say, "4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." Then Jesus said, "8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Did Jesus say, I am going to have seasons like 3 epochs where I will asign certain people as miracle workers to lend credence to the early church. NO ! Jesus plainly said they would recieve POWER when the Holy Ghost came to them. We see what happens in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit was poured out. Peter, who only days before had denied Christ was so filled with the piwer of the Holy Spirit his sermon caused 3000 to join the church. Peter was an Apostle but the power came from the infilling of the Holy Spirit, not having Apostle in front of his name. He was an Apostle when he was denying Jesus. Judas was an Apostle when he betrayed Christ. The differentiating factor was the Holy Spirit. Look at Acts 8 for further proof. Phillip, who WAS NOT an Apostle, heard someone was supposed to go to Samaria. Phillip went down there and signs followed exactly like Jesus said. It wasn’t Phillip who had some special ability, No ! It was the Holy Spirit exactly like Jesus said. Phillip took the ministry as far as he could but then had to send for Peter and John. When Paul came along he ran into believers and said this, "19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
Did Paul do a miracle ? No, the text plainly says, the Holy Ghost got involved. Paul explained events like this in 1 Corinthians with these words, "7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
Paul lists all 9 Gifts, Miracles being one, Healing beìng another. Paul does not say God makes certain men miracle workers to give the early church credibility. No ! Paul says the Gifts are available to EVERY MAN by the Holy Spirit ! Paul wanted there to be no ambiguity, so he repeated who the Gifts were for again. Paul said, "7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal ..."
It is very clear from Paul's teaching that the Holy Spirit is who manifests any and all of the 9 Gifts. The idea that God makes a MAN a healer orca miracle worker is plainly contrary to scripture. Then saying the Holy Spirit left or is somehow muted is not in the Bible. This idea that therebis no mention of Gifts in the epistles is not true. James says, "14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."
Jude says, "20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"
So obviously the Laying on of Hands still work in James' time. Tongues was still practiced in Jude's day. So nothing had ceased ! It went straight back to Jesus telling the what the BELIEVERS would do in Mark 16. The Gifts are even mentioned in the Book of Revelation. Look at this passage, "3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will ..."
So if the Holy Spirit left the planet when the Apostles died, how are these guys doing miracles and prophecying ? Nothing has left ! The scripture says, "29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."
Gifts dont come and go like God cant make up His mind. Also a man 8sn't the carrier of special power like a Marvel Movie. The Holy Spirit manifests the Gifts THROUGH BELIEVERS. It is not their power, it's the Holy Spirit who has the power. The idea that there were 3 times God made men miracle workers, instead of God sent the Holy Spirit to empower men, is completely unhitched from the teaching of scripture.
Speaking tongues (a foreign language to you that can be understood) is the sign that you have received the Holy Spirit.
Speaking in tongues means, a person who has never been exposed to Mandarin suddenly knows how to speak Mandarin.
All that "shabalala" nonsense is NOT speaking in tongues. Nobody understands that gibberish.
LOL
This is so disturbing. Your guest is so focused on the basis of arguments for his point of view. The purpose of his teachings are to come against charismatic. He says Scriptures are God's box,yet you are denying the power of the Holy Spirit. He brought forth 0 Scriptures to refute the gifts. We can clearly see that God gifts to whom He pleases and to those who believe. You clearly do not believe, so you shall not receive.
They're still talking gibberish. You better believe it.😂
Funny that’s what they said in Acts! They are all drunk! 😂
Stop using the term "the church"
It's as if you think everyone, regardless of belief structure, fits under one umbrella.
That's not true and not scriptural.
There are a group of people that line up with scripture (the church) and there are the rest.
You would be more scripturally accurate to use the word religion.
There are thousands of man made religions, only ONE church. (Hint..it's not catholic)
There are absolutely zero arguments to back the false teaching of Cessationism!
So many strawmen
dumb question
This is just a man made theory. You can never read the Bible with commentary from the Holy Spirit and become a Cessationist. You have to read a book written by a Cessationist or listen to a Cessationist to become a Cessationist.
And yet we see fake tongues and fake miracles, fake healings, and fake continuationists all over the place. None of the continuationists are Biblical.
Nobody can read the Bible and come out saying the fakeness of what we see today is Biblical. Fake tongues, fake miracles, fake healings, false prophecies, are not works of the Holy Spirit. Rathers works of the demonic.
@@atlantiscommunitychurch8851 Yes we do. We also see true tongues, and healings, and real followers of Jesus exhibiting the gifts of the HS
Negative. You have to read the Bible in its historical context
@@EdwinOtabil same as Calvinism 👍