Tim, this is the internet. There are insane people who will misinterpret whatever you say, and will dislike you no matter what, so keep that in mind when you read ""criticism"". Some of it is not worth your time to care about.
Well, if this is the internet, then your advise can be easily abused and rephrased to "If someone doesn't agree or doesn't understand, just ignore comment". Some comments don't worth time but it is really hard to separate misunderstanding from hm... lets call it overconfidence in their abilities and knowledge. I think from Tim's "naive" answer to the question "why didn't you just fire them all", we as a community will get more.
Well, this is very irrational and insane comment from you, therefore you are one of those insane people you are talking about, since people are the same everywhere, human nature is the same, and the Internet is just a part of real life, symbiosis established for a raletively long time.
Correct. I'm just watching a game developer talking. Tim is talking to a mass audience. On that scale there will always be someone who, for whatever reason, misses the point. That response is not representative of the entire audience. How to determine which comments are not worth your time? Well, you still have to read them, but if there are no arguments, reason, evidence, logic formulated, you can just discard the comment. If the person didn't think their perspective valuable enough to be accompanied with some reason, evidence or logic, that's not our loss to discard it out of hand.
@@torv2204 That's hardly an abuse, that's just the right way to handle such comments. Especially when the communication is one to many, like in Tim's case. Ain't got time for that.
Sometimes boss is a bad guy just because someone has to be. One can found self in bad guy position just because everyone else unprofessional or too cute to highlight a problem.
I would absolutely watch a video on the process of rapid prototyping. As someone who has been quietly working on their own projects as a hobbyist hearing your perspective on the workflow is always incredibly valuable!
do the smallest amount possible to get it to mostly work: it doesn't need to be pretty (the character can be A/T posing aggressively as they slide from spot to spot), it doesn't need to be exact (the AI is running in a circle, at least they are moving), and it can use whatever you know how to work with (if you don't know how to use a map, or if a map exists, then use an array) (if you don't know how to do interpilation functions then have the thing snap to locations on a timer). if it has bugs/errors then work on the ones out that prevent it from functioning, and only look at the precision when the numbers don't make sense. optimize / make it pretty / change interfaces (data types) when it works when rapid prototyping your goal is not 60 FPS with perfect approximations of reality, your goal is: it doesn't crash, and you are moving in the direction you want to achieve. all of this being said there is a thought process in projects: "don't submit stuff that must be modified later" if you are working in a larger team (probably under source/version control) you don't want to be submitting a rapid prototype for integration (be the full project or just a feature). "if you build it right the first time you won't need to fix it later" this is where a lot of the 'caution' comes from (and why 4 week estimate on a 45-60 minute task) especially if you don't know what data structures should be used, or if the logic even makes sense to begin with, and if you could build it 'right' to begin with then you have probably made it before so you aren't rapid prototyping you are just using iterative design. "just look up a guide if you don't know' software engineers are glorified problem solvers and the real difference between Junior and Senior is a Junior needs to be told how to work on things, while a Senior can work through how to work on things.
From an outsider perspective it seems as though modern devs don't feel as if they have a stake in the game, as if they're just assembly workers putting together a product. It seems the non-indie side of the video gaming industry has been corrupted with the corporate mentality of "shut up and just do as you're told" and discouraging mistakes through punishment instead of encouraging good helpfulness with rewards.
i forget which game it was, but it was made heavily or entirely with temp contract workers. they kept replacing them to keep costs down and half the new guys time would be figuring out what the previous guy was doing.
@@MorganAndersun i think so, i wanna say their slip space engine fell apart because they fired everybody contractor just before they figured out how to do their job
After working at a nursing home and a hospital, I can definitely say that the kind of situations you've described are not "game development personalities" or something. People are just like this. Everywhere. I've encountered situations that felt very similar to things you've described, but with nurses and doctors. People have sore points, people are difficult and precious and stubborn. They also do great work.
@@rainiermcbane2313 well, that depends on what field we're talking about and what your standards are. In many lines of work "most people" wouldn't even be able to get theough the education needed to get that kind of a job.
This is a broader issue related to university and how young people are being sheltered from anything before entering the work place. You can't tell me the generation of "microagressions" and "safe spaces" isn't a huge factor on how workplace culture changed in the last decade or so. His entire video is just his first hand account of how the virus we now call wokeness started affect workplace interactions. People too sensitive to even hear a heated discussion, people scared of criticism and accountability... This is all easy to track back to college and the insanity going in there.
Hey Tim, I totally agree that sometimes people mistake passionate discussions as yelling because they are not used to voicing their perspective in their personal life or inner circle without it devolving into a mess. Your inner circle or family raised you in a solutions oriented discussion environment. I think you've nailed the issue that most people are battling their ego in a discussion instead of looking for the root cause of the issue. Great topic!
Passionate discussions can also be people battling their egos, I had a coworker who I cannot converse with because he'll try super hard to overpower everyone with long passionate monologues. I don't mind intense and scream matches, but if someone isn't being heard it's no longer a discussion. Edit: I know what Timothy meant by passionate discussions, and I don't think he's a terrible person.
Hey Timothy. This will be my sixth year in game development, and I find myself dealing with many of these boxes. I have discussions about many of these things with my coworkers. While I might not be the best at driving youtube comments, I want you to know that you instigate a lot of healthy discussions for me and my colleges. Many great lunch discussions. It must be hard bringing things like this up. Especially when discussions go in directions, or take tones, which are not productive, or healthy. However, you help so many people by highlighting these boxes, and jumpstarting discussions about them. Thank you for all of the insights, and great discussions!❤
Tim, thank you for continuing to share your experience. Your last video on this topic ended up in A LOT of places, and most would never cover that topic again after the coverage your received. I work in the industry, and I find myself constantly trying to get my teams to take more "risks" and just move faster. But it really does feel like every year we're getting more and more stuck in something like "process quick sand". It is really tough to push through, and it feels like the size of companies we operate in has made everyone operate as if we're a bank or a similar large bureaucratic organization. I don't know what the solution is, the only thing I can come up with is smaller team and organization size, to force more generalists into the organization.
I think team/organization scale management is definitely a significant component of this. Not the whole tangle of roots, but definitely a hefty part of the core. I'm tempted to look at militaries (historically) as a source of insight, as they are the domain where humanity has consistently worked on that problem *and found solutions.* The problem though is that most of those solutions tend to be... rough on creatives. Even still, I think there's something to how people in large teams need to be *sold* on the core vision of the game and on the core leadership of the project. Trust is a healthy motivator to pushing through discomfort and taking risks. Of course, corporate America has shown us that it's not something you can just create with a few team exercises, and I think our interactions in school and with government have given the last few generations a predisposition towards distrust with authority. ... and now I'm back to not having any good ideas 😂
@@RagTagPwner The military essentially attempts to beat the individuality and originality out of its recruits in favor of "the collective" in "boot camp" and beyond, "collective" being a terrible word for a gaggle of humans, though that's the one still in near-ubiquitous use, as though humans were, say, a bunch of automatronic atoms swirling about one another in a Cosmic soup, completely separate and apart with no shared dreams or desires or ideas or will and in *need* of being told what to do, who to be and what to say/not to say every minute of every day. (Gee, I wonder why?) "Whistleblowers," of course, refute the success of that particular model in molding human beings according to arbitrary will, yet one might argue that very model of "governance" has been adopted across the board from government to business to education to heathcare along with a quite obviously techno-logical mindset that earnestly believes bandaids can heal any and all open wounds. ...and now I'm back to not "having" any ideas. :)
@@drnage4495 That narcissism (according to its spiritual, not "psychological", definition) and the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm still rules...for the moment.
I genuinely think there are people who have grown up in environments where they have to take everything literally. There is little to no implied sarcasm in their lives or hyperbole or exaggeration, which makes it hard for them to understand a story which is by design made to obfuscate the real events to hide identities and timelines. These videos are an amazing window into the world of game development that you have experienced and I have never taken it as anything but thank you for them and never stop doing them or censoring yourself to avoid misunderstandings of people who can't see that this is only your experiences and they don't have to solve things you did decades ago for you lol.
Don't worry Tim, the majority understands what you were saying. Ed Boon talked about how they used to develop Mortal Kombat and change things daily. But nowadays if you want a little thing changed it's a 6 months process. I didn't understand what he meant until I heard what you said. My understanding is, that the modern corporate work environment makes it difficult to get things done. Right? People are incentivized to stretch the 10-minute work to a month. For many reasons. Even if Tod Howerd wanted to innovate and try new things with Starfield he would be swimming against the tide. In this corporate work environment even If we get Timothy Cain and Josh Sawyer to develop Fallout New Vegas 2, big chance it will end up like Starfield. We apreatate your videos. Hope those types of people don't turn you away. Masahiro Ito is one of Silent Hill developers. When he talks about the lore on Twitter, there are people who keep wrongly correcting him. Even tho he is one of the people who wrote the lore.
"Even if Tod Howerd wanted to innovate and try new things with Starfield he would be swimming against the tide." -- Thank you. One might argue that "swimming against the tide" is precisely what needs to be happening, but it's soooooo much easier said than done. People forget that Bethesda isn't calling all the shots at Bethesda these days. Zenimax was calling quite a few of them there for a while and now Microsoft will be. On the surface, that looks a lot more like an overwhelming tidal wave, but I gather that's why "undergrounds" are even a thing.
@@lrinfithat's what happened with redfall zenimax wanted that game because of the trends at the time 2018 the devs didn't want to nor did they had the experience making that sort of game also the pandemic
@@chilbiyito I can just feel the pressure being applied to Bethesda Softworks to monetize everything in its catalog that could possibly be monetized to try and make the recently approved deal between Zenimax and Microsoft look as appealing as possible to investors, but studios historically haven't existed solely to please shareholders, so overly focussed on ROI that game design itself is transformed to adhere to shady monetization practices and psy-ops the studios themselves along with their reputations, definitely, would be far better off without. Yet, they're increasingly being asked (and, even, ordered I'm sure) to engage in Skinner box game design and worse and that makes me wonder how much power the studios themselves wield today with "ownership" entities just a step or two higher up on the pyramid than they, which seem to have no problem throwing them to the wolves when things go wrong. I feel for Arkane. I truly do. So many games like Redfall were in active development when the live service financial bubble burst, we'll probably never hear of them all. And what did the umbrella corporations do when it did? Released games such as Fallout 76 and Redfall in less than ideal states, to put it mildly, effectively washing their hands of them and allowing the studios and their developers to take all the criticism and worse for the debacle. Their reputations may never recover. Studios that self-publish their games are among the most vulnerable because that publishing wing is highly likely to be split off into a separate entity eventually as with Bethesda Softworks and Bethesda Game Studios. I imagine there's then far less incentive to produce games out of the sheer love of producing interesting, innovative games and far more to please shareholders. It's trends such as these Swen Vincke, et alia, have been heavily criticizing of late, though usually, if not always, solely on behalf of developers and certainly not players. I truly hope Tim won't erase this comment from existence as the incident is public and UA-cam is a public forum, but Brian Birmingham opened up publicly about being terminated after sending an email stating he intended to resign in protest of the stack ranking system utilized by Blizzard at the time if he wasn't relieved of the responsibility of using it himself. I think that's terrible. Blizzard obviously considered him just another expendable cog in the machine. At the same time, though, I can only muster so much sympathy for the guy given the state of World of Warcraft and its own, increasingly insane monetization schemes. He didn't mind participating in those. His conscience only kicked in when people he personally knew and loved and worked with every day were impacted by that corporate employee policy. Never mind the "customers" being "addicted" to WoW and nickle and dimed to death. As a player and not creator of video games, I can empathize with industry professionals far more readily than I can sympathize with them because empathy doesn't require any emotion whereas sympathy does. Developers, no doubt, feel they're alone and powerless to do anything about the way things are going in the industry, but they're not. If established, they have playerbases to draw strength from if they care to protest as opposed to going along with insitutionalized greed that affects them as well as the communities of players they themselves had a hand in forming. Someone will probably shortly mention unionizing and that may help, but will only go so far.
This caution you're seeing is in most creative industries/ team environments where something is produced as an end product (think health care or even an abstract like justice). All pervasive is the managerial culture, geared toward micromanaging employes into what is perceived as increased productivity. Personal reasonability, passion, and a willingness to positively engage in good-faith open discussions are all unwanted traits that will be actively punished in that environment; you are seen as "difficult" or "hard to manage" if you want to do anything other than what you're told to do or question why things are being done how they are. Waiting to be told what to do is a sad survival trait developed from contact with thin-skinned managers who don't have the capacity to do anything other than what they have learned in business school. Keep shining the torch Tim, we won't get anywhere without it :)
I have been reading several of your posts. As an artist in the industry, the situation you describe really hits home. BTW, out side of video game development, the problems you talk about are very common. Thanks.
The first video was great, as a somewhat junior dev who came up in this new culture and doesn't know better. Don't be discouraged, your insight is very helpful.
As a fairly young Designer working on my first LARGE published game I find your channel to be one of the most positive places. I face so many of the challenges you describe every day in the office. 🤣 Things are getting more intense as our announcement approaches and I find myself more and more often binging your videos.😂 I learn a lot and hearing my challenges from a veteran like you gives me a lot of hope.❤ Thanks Tim.
I'm a sucker for behind the scenes gamedev content and I have been watching at least one video every day since I found your channel. Having you share your decades worth of experience is an invaluable resource for anyone willing to listen. I mostly avoid the comment section but even I couldn't help coming across posts, I think first on reddit, mischaracterizing your points and arguing them for drama. I hope you will not feel discouraged from such comments and basically just want to let you know I love your videos that started to sneak into my daily routine :)
Never seen/heard of your content before these 2 that just got suggested to me. As a software engineer with 5 years in a couple companies, it’s awesome to hear your stories and wisdom. Thank you for caring and sharing what you care about - it does certainly affect others like me. It gets me thinking about being considerate to others, but also how I can improve myself and our processes (and I’m not even a game dev). Very motivating
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." I wouldn't worry about the response to what's said as you are a wonderful mind with great experience who provides a lot of value with these videos. We can't control anything but ourselves and you can be sure that you're doing right by yourself and by the target audience here, and the real ones will relate an understand. Not to suggest that you shouldn't respond like you're doing here, I just wanted to show some support and let you know devs are with you and appreciate your content, understand your perspective, and appreciate the real world examples.🙏
Tim I really enjoyed your videos, as a game developer I have run into exactly what you're describing over the course of many years and I feel the same way as you! I also like speaking in specifics and examples and run into many the same issues as you, folks tend to latch onto the example!
I am a relatively new developer (3 years in) and after watching this, its funny how many times I could relate to your examples. It gave me a lot of insight as to the shortcuts I've offered in the past just to solve the surface level problem and some direction on how to fix it. Really appreciate this video!
Wow, I really appreciate this video. Since the first one is what brought me to the channel, this was a good follow up. Anyhow, I don’t know the solution but I do think a lot of your other videos have hinted at answers. Like about challenging yourself, I think self imposing challenges can lead to less over caution.
As a layman to game dev, I find your perspective valuable. I especially appreciate the metered and nuanced approach. I imagine it's gonna be pretty difficult to prescribe solutions to every issue mentioned because there will be one for every person, so I get why there aren't solutions provided for every bit of caution. If only closing a door could be used in more situations, right? 😂 But for all the nuance you include in your shares, it's negativity that gets clicks. I think it's great you show up to add to tense issues like this. Keep up the good work.
"there will be one for every person" -- I highly doubt that and agree with our greatest luminaries that it's the structure of human "consciousness" that is at issue, such luminaries including William Blake, Eugen Rosenstock Huessy, Jean Gebser, et alia, along with their present-day contemporaries, e.g. A. H. Almaas, author of 'The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization'. "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern." ~ William Blake
It's great when you get a team to a point where they feel pyschological safty. In my experience it does take some time. But when things work out it's very rewarding. Sometimes it can be a process fix, and sometimes it can just be reviewing a process and finding ways to agree on a common language for things. Definately one of my favorite topics, glad to hear it get brought up. :D
Hey Tim! Just discovered your channel and your content is awesome. I just went back to school for game development and I've been really excited. I really appreciate your videos they're extremely insightful but also make me warry.
Brilliant. I’m not in game development just a player so I can’t really add to the discussion but I can relate to what you’re saying, and really enjoy hearing you talk about your experience.
Tim, you are awesome. Great fireside chat. Love this content. Sometimes it's the people, but more often than not its the processes within the organisation. Coming from my point as a developer clear, concise communication in the process chain is VITAL! Getting a process to make sure that all departments are aligned on the end goal with clear expectations is the key. BTW fallout is awesome!!!!
I'm glad I watched these videos without any commentary from another sources. I started to watch part 1 with someone saying "Yeah, we have to fire these employees that don't want their name on the whiteboard." And I thought to myself that there's got to be more nuance to this story and ended up watching the video without the commentary. I'm glad I did! I don't work game design but to me this sounds like people need to have more ownership of a task. And sometimes that ownership can be passion driven too. I don't want to be an armchair dev either because I don't know the industry outside of hobbist blender and unity stuff. I think I was able to see where you are coming from though, and it's a shame so many external commentaries twisted some of your words. Thanks for the clarification and the great videos. I hope to see more!
Thank you for your effort trying to let people be aware of the situations. But the sad reality is even pointing out the root problem, it will take a huge chunk of time for the intended change to happen. I hope it makes you feel better that a lot of folks are trying to address them 🙂
Hey Tim. I have a theory, at least based on my experience. Gamedevs have no power any longer. They could easily do things like you describe if they were allowed to. But there's a whole plethora of people managing the devs in a studio, essentially taking all autonomy away from them. So the problem is not letting the devs be people and contribute in ways they think would be useful to the projects. Instead we have a bunch of rather clueless people managing them and demand status reports. If you question why such a person won't just do what's necessary to implement a simple feature, they will defer to their boss, because they don't want to get in trouble. And they will balloon estimates since a missed estimate is punished. Hate the process, not the people. I'm sure any of those devs could do the things that were asked in short time if they were on their own private project. Being in a big studio is just a whole other level of pain, with all the process you have to follow, all the monitoring you're under, and all the gates you need to pass. If you want to do something about it, empower the devs in your org to contribute the way they prefer. Give them control over their own time, and move away from gating to coaching.
Hi Tim, Long time listener, first time commentor. I love you are speaking on these topics, your wisdom and resume speak for themselves! Listen to this man, people!
Hi Tim I'm working as a developer (not a game developer), but i saw your examples mentioned in the previous video all the time. I totally get your point and share your pain. Treat this post as an encouragement post. Keep doing what you are doing.
Great intersection analogy - I am going to steal it! You see a similar thing in the B2B software world as well. Total lack of desire to understand the actual problem. I always try and apply HCD principles to deconstruct where the actual issue is (who is doing what when, where are the pain points) - but yeah it isn't always easy. I suspect "game dev caution" has a myriad of causes, each one specific to the environment where they are occurring. So you'd need to unpack each on a case by case basis.
I think a large part of the misunderstanding is that some people just want to use new arguments to justify their current way of thinking. Be it vindictiveness, fatalism, or apathy. I think what you're doing is great, Tim, and I'm thankful that some discussion's still being had as a result. I noticed a lot of similar problems in my industry (integrated circuit design), which is way more "impersonal" than games, so I can only assume this kind of caution is part of a larger cultural trend.
If you feel that there is too little discussion about root causes etc, just remember that many discussions happen between people who watch your videos, in chat rooms and IRL. Your channel is a treasure trove of gamedev insight and a great starting place for discussion topics. It is great that you try to be as clear as you can on the purpose and intent of your videos, but also please don't be discouraged by feeling misunderstood, it's always gonna happen, especially when you talk about something as complicated as gamedev. Have a nice day!
I'm an Indie game dev building a company with a friend, I found your channel around a month ago and enjoy how you tell stories about problems you experienced with good explanations on how you fixed or wanted to fix those issues too. These videos are amazing and I'm always interested to hear what more you want to talk about. Comments from the internet are always going to be mixed with negative and positive as every person thinks differently. "X makes sense but Y is just dumb to me" It doesn't mean Y is a bad solution, but it's not as optimal as X probably would be or vice versa
Hello! :) Firstly, I would like to praise your efforts and ability to articulate the problems. As a fellow game designer and a "generalist" at the core, I would like to proceed and just offer a few explanations or possibilities for the problems you mentioned in this video. Number one - Genius Identity Syndrome. Here we have a personal identity where correctness trumps collaboration. The individual is stuck on the idea that making a mistake will expose him/her as average and become an asset that may be substituted by any other average individual. Number two - Punching the Clock. This is a different kind of identity problem where the individual does not connect to the art he or she is making. Relegating the responsibility for beauty/functionality to higher-ranking colleagues or/and just hating the structure but refusing to quit. And finally, Number Three - If we are building the Pyramids we are not slaves! Many think they are doing "A Job" when in reality they are giving their life energy into a living thing. All developers are parents. Parents in the digital realm. And getting paid is not the reward. The Pyramid is the Reward!
I felt that one. I'm still in Uni, but this problem seems to root in Uni. I feel like I need to ascend to a super psychologist until people relax enough to start spitting out their thoughts raw, and then, still, some consciously don't want to spit their thoughts raw. When someone third steps in and starts talking with them, it becomes obvious why they're so closed: "you should re-read the manual", "that's the wrong way of doing things stop talking about it", "no that's not how you do it, the right way to do it is... um... okay let me try... I guess..." and basically I feel like we're being placed in a toxic environment where all we learn is how to survive in a hellpit. Sure people get extremely good at surviving in hellpits, some paralyze and hibernate, others fight back like whacky athletes, others want to remain conscious so they just accept their fate and suffer. That's often women by the way. I don't want to know what people will be like when I go to work. It feels like you need to massage them a lot before they can start discussing something, and half hour later something will scare them again and they'll stiffen up again. I don't like it. No discussion, no curiosity, no respect, no aspirations, no helping, no asking for help, basically unwillingness to interface with the world. And nobody wants to be like me, they all want me to be like them. I don't get that part.
Sometimes Tim's shirt looks like he's wearing a bib in the thumbnail and I can't get over the thought of Tim sharing game design tips over a rack of ribs.
most of these issues sound like the generic issues that plague most corporate environments just seen through the lens of game development. i think i personally have dealt with every situation you described in both videos all while i was working doing medical manufacturing. people get steadily trained to not care and do the bare minimum. EXAMPLE: there was a guy who worked in a department that regularly interacted with the production side where i worked. he was never sick and never took unscheduled days off. every year the workers were given a rating of 0-5 on each of a long series of metrics. one of those metrics was "attendance". even though the guy never missed a day, he got a score of 3. Why? because EVERYONE always got a score of 3 on every score unless they had seriously screwed something up (then it would be a 2), and your yearly pay raise was tied to the review. guess what his response was after getting his review? he said, "fuck it, i am taking next week off". Why? because, the only thing you earned from going above and beyond was extra exhaustion. these are problems that require a fundamental rework of the ENTIRE company culture from top to bottom, and without some major catastrophic event to wake people up, very few people will be interested in that level of change. the core solution you are looking for is something that would wake entire companies of people out of complacency and i highly doubt that there are many people who know how to do that (i sure don't). i am not saying you should give up, but just recognize that the core issue runs far deeper than a few in house procedures, and the vast majority of the public is not equipped to give you competent answers. i find it very likely that there are a few people who have good solutions randomly surfing youtube, BUT you will have to sift through the infinite pile of ignorance to find those good solutions. you talked about shining lights on boxes. let's take the analogy further: you find that one of the boxes is wet. Why is it wet? answer: something is dripping on it. What is dripping? answer: there is a hole in the roof above the box letting rain in. Why is there a hole in the roof? answer: the roof rusted through. Why did the roof rust? answer: because the roof is 30 years old and no one maintained it. How do we fix it? answer: replace the entire roof. How much time will that take? many years. How much will it cost to store stuff while the roof is replaced? millions of dollars. How much will this process cut into profits? millions of dollars. BUT! it is much more cheep and quick to move the boxes out from under the holes and just tag the wet areas as off limits.
I don't usually comment, but I really like your videos. It's refreshing that you're giving an honest opinion on the black box of game development. I also hate to write something like this, but I've always wondered how you even begin a game prototype - something to show off a game concept; which engine do you choose? If you haven't got any assets, what should you lean on? Is there a really rough prototype that you've seen that inspired awe? Anyway, I really hope you keep going with this. Your videos are sick
Tim, for what it's worth, I never come away from your videos with the wrong impression. I'm not sure how this stuff gets lost in translation for some folks, but please don't let them deter you from producing these videos. I like forward to them every day.
Tim, I'm new to your vids. I wish i worked with more people like you in my industry. There are too many people doing their jobs for a paycheck while lacking passion for what they do. Solving unique problems is frustrating, but can be a lot of fun. Most people just want to do the same old same old though, with no accountability or expectation of improvement.
I’m a software engineer and the team I am on have overcome some of the things you mentioned. Really enjoy these videos because I don’t think enough discussion/ meta analysis is happening about the issues around making software.
I absolutely enjoy you coming to youtube to brings to light. The sad part, is there is a lot going on causing nerves to be shot and people be in edge. So UA-cams already toxic comment section is made even worse. Please don't stop making these videos. You help me know that I still have a brain and still have worth to an industry that has little to no feeling.
People are always going to oversimplify and twist things to fit their own narratives. There's nothing you can do about that. It's just the world we live in now. You were clear in your original video. Your "treating the symptoms, not the disease" analogy is apropos and also just how the world and the majority of people operate/think. Would LOVE a video on rapid prototyping. Prototyping is so twisted in the industry - I swear 90% of the time I'm asked for a prototype what they really want is a vertical slice - and I'd love to hear your take/definition and style for rapid prototyping.
People that said you were the bad guy just don't want to be held accountable. That is the big issue in society and how people deal with communication. Often times when stuff like this gets talked about, some of the biggest critiques are people who took personal offense to it because they saw themselves in the story. It's nothing more than that. It sounds like an oversimplification, but that's the reality on social media now. People nit-pick, because they are too afraid to say a huge essay, or create content. Instead they prefer to sit in their small metaphorical cubicle and judge others on their creations and discussion. The world is divided into creators and critiques. You are a creator. Let the naysayers exist in their bubble, and let the forward thinkers continue on to do great things. I appreciated your stories, and they gave me valuable insight that I will hold with me going forward into the industry.
I know this was released a couple months ago, but as a game design graduate I strongly appreciate you bringing this up. It's not just in the industry, its in our society. I care very much about the root causes of issues. You just earned a subscriber. I look forward to watching your other videos.
I work in Infrastructure Architecture and I can't express how much this video (and the first installment) resonate with me. I plan on leveraging some of the examples used here to differentiate between solutions offered that are looking at/approaching the problem correctly and ones that are not. The inability for some to know the difference between the two is staggering.
The problem is that you can't really solve the warehouse's problems unless you make it operate like it used to (or at least change how it operates now). Because they're running off of boom bust cycles, people are always going to be, rightly, afraid for their employment, and they're always going to be nervous about doing something wrong. If you want to see my reasoning, I am going to direct you to the video "The Video Game Industry is NOT Collapsing. A Lawyer Explains.", as that'll, I believe explain why I think the industry won't be changing in the way that I think would solve the problem (reducing the scope of games and increasing the number of them, so each project isn't a behemoth that's financial aims don't exponentially balloon until they pop with a failure and ruin thousands of lives under their weight)
I think alot of what Tim is saying during both part 1 and 2 is really how things operate everywhere and i think three's alot to unpacked but that this is really a metaphor about how alot of people are feeling everywhere in the world aswell, personal accountability is dead. especially when there's a bigger team to displace the accountability. what you are saying is resonating with alot of people Tim, dont worry about what the negative comments are saying. this is your personal opinions and your aloud to state them please continue with this conversations, it really does resonate
This video and it's predecessor made me realize that almost every game I've loved and go back to also pisses me off in one way or another. Because it took risks and some of those ideas didn't pan out. Almost every classic or beloved game has a few rough edges.
I liked the whiteboard idea it gives you a clear cut goal and a place where you can see your accomplishments pile up on the com0leted side and if you are struggling you know what your goal is and what needs to be done to better ask for assitance
I was one ot the people who commented with a solution. I came from a point of trying to fill in the blanks more then trying to paint you as the bad guy. The scenario you described sounded so absurd that I just couldnt believe it. Thanks for taking the time to unpack your perspective again here. I now realize how bad it can be at some studios, sounds frightening.
One idea I'm working on is if I'm working with a team, I want to get everyone involved in the design process so everyone feels connected to the project. I think people lose a lot of motivation when they have their own ideas and no where to really present them without feeling like they're just handing out suggestions. I don't think the classical way of bouncing ideas off of each other and building off a single idea is effective enough to get an entire project team involved in design. The reason why I believe this is because in a meeting, you would need to give every individual a turn to speak (and the problem with this is time consumption). This was a lot harder to solve before the modern version of the internet, but now we have things like Discord that allow us to communicate seamlessly from all around the world. So in order to get everyone involved in the game design process, I had a thought about treating a game as if it were a character creation screen where you identify all the sliders and then everyone on the project team starts offering up different values for the sliders. An example would be like creating options for different characters, different buildings, different cities, different environments. With this idea, you can even take existing ideas and combine them in different ways to create new options. Then, when you want to start making decisions on what the actual game will be, you start putting the options to votes. I feel like this would work well, because psychologically, people would feel more involved. Game developers in the modern age have resources that people in the 80s did not have, millions of different examples to draw reference from.
Hey Tim I enjoyed your first video going over this and am jealous that you have had people who share the same admiration for game development during the meeting you had with the outer worlds dev. As someone who is graduating as a comp sci student what would be some words of motivation for someone who is young and inspired and entering the working world.
I know that this is beside the point, but as far as your videos and your approach to topics go, I'd love to work with you. Straight to the point, concise and not wanting to point the finger. I think I would grow exponentially with such people around. This is me blabbing on, but I think the points you make here speak to an increasing problem with maturity in the industry and its quite infectious, because people don't know how to approach them without alienating themselves. They're being cautious, in that sense.
Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on reviewing the progress of a game at the different stages: Concept, Pre-pro, production, etc. What have you found as effective approaches to playtesting, review, and iteration on the game within the team as well as with players.
People are not conditioned now to FIX problems, but to minimize their negative results. Like we have lost the power to resolve an issue. People have become faint and weak, unable to challenge and confront. To make a hard decision. Everyone seems so intent on making sure no eggshells are broken.
Very thought-provoking. The problem I run into a lot is that I can see what the symptoms are, I can see what the root cause is, but I have no control over fixing it. I can just tell someone "you've got this problem over there" and then they either do something about it, or much more likely... don't. I don't know how people get over not being able to fix something that is clearly broken no matter who you ask.
There have been at least two cases of people who played games, reported a bug, it didn't get fixed and they eventually joined the company, got on the team for the game, fixed the bug, and then quit. Because their only reason to join the company was seeing that bug fixed. I don't think people 'get over' something being broken and not being allowed to see that thing fixed.
I labored over an indie startup for three years and then ran out of budget without even getting a demo finished in spite of working 60-80 hours/week at odd hours destructive to my health whilst managing a large team of part-timers and interns on an extremely limited budget and far too much ambition. Had I heard some of the talking points from your channel, I might have avoided a lot of pain and struggle learning some of these lessons on my own firsthand.
This kind of touched on something I have been wondering about, can you please do a video about switching roles in a big company? I've heard some stories from a few indie developers that the reason they chose to go indie was because they couldn't get a leading role or that they couldn't even get out of QA. Strangely, though as far as I am aware none of them worked together, all of them mentioned that when they asked if they could make a pitch, they were denied and told to "stick to what you're good at" in various ways. I'd really like to know how changing jobs works from your perspective and if QA is a viable foot in the door, or if it's better to only apply for the job you actually want.
I wonder if you'd have any thoughts on the differences and or difficulties on programming interactive systems such as combat/inventory for keyboard and mouse vs. controllers. And overall do you think our current devices are holding us back from better combat in games. I know VR has some solutions with their unique controller styles but I still think regular gaming from a monitor/tv could evolve and be improved upon. To give an example, something like archery in video games usually is not very engaging with the controllers and only allows for pulling the string back a lot or a little but not much variation when it comes to how you hold the bow in the left hand. P.S. I do archery as a hobby so this is something that always sticks out to me in games. Great video btw as always!
The first video about this is incredibly important too. The underlying cause I suspect could be anxiety, or fear of being "that person" who threw a wrench into the gears. It can be a fear across most jobs I imagine, not wanting to rock the boat. But if you don't want to rock the boat or take risk you may just churn out something as safe and mundane as the attitude you had making it. I don't sift through many comments but I think there can be tons of people that can misunderstand concepts or topics, just on a presumed percentage of people watching, some are bound to take anything the wrong way.
Thank you so much for the videos Tim, can we get a video about rapid prototyping in video game development? I'd love to hear your experiences and what that offered your teams in the past. I'm shocked that's not used much now.
I’m 39 and also a game developer, the situation these days in game studios is exactly what you described. The amount of people in games that shouldn’t be in games is the source of the problem. Making tons of money has turned game development into enterprise corporate cr@p.
In a dark, quiet corner of a vast, dark warehouse sits the box labeled "Vampires development: working with the Source engine". I sense many people would be quite happy to see that box brought under the light more...
Tim, love your analysis of systemic problems that exist today with game development. I think it's a lot deeper than what you think, in terms of the lens that people view life through. I see a lack of critical thinking and poor judgment and faulty belief systems, tainting people's ability to be creative and innovative. Also, like you said, inflation is underming the ability to put sufficient funds to ensure high-quality game design/content. BTW, I love the entire Fallout series; played them all.
I feel like people get too defensive sometimes. Tim isn't picking on individuals, but certain people feel targeted because they feel they are slower or less capable of implementing the vision of their work. However, I don't think Tim or anyone else is hating on your for giving your best. Sometimes we have to take a step back, and really look at our own capabilities and put those into a real context. Understand one thing, you arn't being attacked, Tim isn't trying to hurt you, he's wants to help you.
thank you for making that video and clearing things up - there was a lot of important context missing in the first video that lead to me defending the position of the developer in a way, because i also heard a lot of attitude that comes from a simpler era of development and some of it does not work anymore the way it was back in the day. What i totally agree on is protoyping done without going to far into "real production", so i would love a video about rapid prototyping. I have the feeling that studios shift too early into production and the slower processes that comes with it while they have not figured out if the game design even works. So prototyping without the restrictions of modern game production is SO important - and doing this quickly and uncomplicted is really important. Especially WITH the knowledge that production processes slow down later, nailing game design BEFORE the project goes into that stage is key in my oppinion.
I see similar phenomenon in software development as well. Leaders often talk about taking ownership of topics, modules, frameworks, etc. But yeah, most people just want to be told what to do.
We need a co-op development model for games. A group of developers come in to make a game with the IP and final product being owned by everyone collectively. When the game ships, everyone can go their separate ways (or a few stay on to fix bugs for their fixed salary, or form new teams, or whatever) but every single person who worked on the game has life-time residuals on the game. The residuals era of development is what spawned the golden age of new development studios and innovation in games. We need that money to go to the creatives, not the middle management and executive monsters who care more about profit than their developers.
Bingo. Procedural solutions within a studio only work if the studio is the fulcrum, not the IP and/or purse holders. This doesn't solve problems with consumer mindsets and difficulties with costs vs. revenues, but it does address everything noxious that trickles down.
How do you reach consensus, if I put in more lines of code than every one else, I want to be paid more, how do you translate artist and other jobs to lines of code?
Maybe a co-op isn't right for you. Generally, people who are stuck in the mindset of "get mine" capitalism are not going to work well in a co-op situation where everyone has their own responsibilities and you can't necessarily track your work compared to theirs. @@GeomancerHT
Legendary developer Tim Cain announces his new warehouse simulator horror game franchise
This one gets it
Tim, this is the internet. There are insane people who will misinterpret whatever you say, and will dislike you no matter what, so keep that in mind when you read ""criticism"". Some of it is not worth your time to care about.
Well, if this is the internet, then your advise can be easily abused and rephrased to "If someone doesn't agree or doesn't understand, just ignore comment". Some comments don't worth time but it is really hard to separate misunderstanding from hm... lets call it overconfidence in their abilities and knowledge. I think from Tim's "naive" answer to the question "why didn't you just fire them all", we as a community will get more.
Well, this is very irrational and insane comment from you, therefore you are one of those insane people you are talking about, since people are the same everywhere, human nature is the same, and the Internet is just a part of real life, symbiosis established for a raletively long time.
Don’t forget trolling.
Correct. I'm just watching a game developer talking. Tim is talking to a mass audience. On that scale there will always be someone who, for whatever reason, misses the point. That response is not representative of the entire audience.
How to determine which comments are not worth your time? Well, you still have to read them, but if there are no arguments, reason, evidence, logic formulated, you can just discard the comment. If the person didn't think their perspective valuable enough to be accompanied with some reason, evidence or logic, that's not our loss to discard it out of hand.
@@torv2204 That's hardly an abuse, that's just the right way to handle such comments. Especially when the communication is one to many, like in Tim's case. Ain't got time for that.
I don't know how anyone could have come away from that video thinking you were the "bad guy". Imagine having reasonable work standards lol
Sometimes boss is a bad guy just because someone has to be. One can found self in bad guy position just because everyone else unprofessional or too cute to highlight a problem.
Some people just want to come to work with other but lack teamwork
It's the people who want four weeks. 😂
Those were the people that fucked up the outer worlds lol
IT industry is full of adult children who can't handle criticism.
(Not all, but that has been my experience being in the industry for 10+ years)
I would absolutely watch a video on the process of rapid prototyping. As someone who has been quietly working on their own projects as a hobbyist hearing your perspective on the workflow is always incredibly valuable!
do the smallest amount possible to get it to mostly work: it doesn't need to be pretty (the character can be A/T posing aggressively as they slide from spot to spot), it doesn't need to be exact (the AI is running in a circle, at least they are moving), and it can use whatever you know how to work with (if you don't know how to use a map, or if a map exists, then use an array) (if you don't know how to do interpilation functions then have the thing snap to locations on a timer).
if it has bugs/errors then work on the ones out that prevent it from functioning, and only look at the precision when the numbers don't make sense.
optimize / make it pretty / change interfaces (data types) when it works
when rapid prototyping your goal is not 60 FPS with perfect approximations of reality, your goal is: it doesn't crash, and you are moving in the direction you want to achieve.
all of this being said there is a thought process in projects:
"don't submit stuff that must be modified later" if you are working in a larger team (probably under source/version control) you don't want to be submitting a rapid prototype for integration (be the full project or just a feature).
"if you build it right the first time you won't need to fix it later" this is where a lot of the 'caution' comes from (and why 4 week estimate on a 45-60 minute task) especially if you don't know what data structures should be used, or if the logic even makes sense to begin with, and if you could build it 'right' to begin with then you have probably made it before so you aren't rapid prototyping you are just using iterative design.
"just look up a guide if you don't know' software engineers are glorified problem solvers and the real difference between Junior and Senior is a Junior needs to be told how to work on things, while a Senior can work through how to work on things.
From an outsider perspective it seems as though modern devs don't feel as if they have a stake in the game, as if they're just assembly workers putting together a product. It seems the non-indie side of the video gaming industry has been corrupted with the corporate mentality of "shut up and just do as you're told" and discouraging mistakes through punishment instead of encouraging good helpfulness with rewards.
i forget which game it was, but it was made heavily or entirely with temp contract workers. they kept replacing them to keep costs down and half the new guys time would be figuring out what the previous guy was doing.
@@markfreeman4727 There's a lot of candidates for that in the last few years.
@@markfreeman4727Ik what game ur talking about but also can’t remember the name of it lol
@@markfreeman4727was it halo or something? Maybe I’m confusing it but I 100% know what you’re mentioning
@@MorganAndersun i think so, i wanna say their slip space engine fell apart because they fired everybody contractor just before they figured out how to do their job
After working at a nursing home and a hospital, I can definitely say that the kind of situations you've described are not "game development personalities" or something.
People are just like this. Everywhere. I've encountered situations that felt very similar to things you've described, but with nurses and doctors. People have sore points, people are difficult and precious and stubborn. They also do great work.
They don't do great work. Most people are mediocre.
@@rainiermcbane2313 well, that depends on what field we're talking about and what your standards are. In many lines of work "most people" wouldn't even be able to get theough the education needed to get that kind of a job.
"“Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up.” ~ Pablo Picasso
This is a broader issue related to university and how young people are being sheltered from anything before entering the work place. You can't tell me the generation of "microagressions" and "safe spaces" isn't a huge factor on how workplace culture changed in the last decade or so. His entire video is just his first hand account of how the virus we now call wokeness started affect workplace interactions. People too sensitive to even hear a heated discussion, people scared of criticism and accountability... This is all easy to track back to college and the insanity going in there.
You missed the point where it wasn't an issue before and where they don't do great work
Hey Tim, I totally agree that sometimes people mistake passionate discussions as yelling because they are not used to voicing their perspective in their personal life or inner circle without it devolving into a mess. Your inner circle or family raised you in a solutions oriented discussion environment. I think you've nailed the issue that most people are battling their ego in a discussion instead of looking for the root cause of the issue. Great topic!
even if you weren't raised like that, you can still figure it out. It's all an ego problem as you pointed out.
This is something i had to come to terms with a few years ago and i still battle it to this day.
Passionate discussions can also be people battling their egos, I had a coworker who I cannot converse with because he'll try super hard to overpower everyone with long passionate monologues. I don't mind intense and scream matches, but if someone isn't being heard it's no longer a discussion.
Edit: I know what Timothy meant by passionate discussions, and I don't think he's a terrible person.
Hey Timothy.
This will be my sixth year in game development, and I find myself dealing with many of these boxes. I have discussions about many of these things with my coworkers. While I might not be the best at driving youtube comments, I want you to know that you instigate a lot of healthy discussions for me and my colleges. Many great lunch discussions.
It must be hard bringing things like this up. Especially when discussions go in directions, or take tones, which are not productive, or healthy. However, you help so many people by highlighting these boxes, and jumpstarting discussions about them.
Thank you for all of the insights, and great discussions!❤
Kidney stone = Get science in the room I want the pain to stop. This man has a great way with words!
Tim, thank you for continuing to share your experience. Your last video on this topic ended up in A LOT of places, and most would never cover that topic again after the coverage your received.
I work in the industry, and I find myself constantly trying to get my teams to take more "risks" and just move faster. But it really does feel like every year we're getting more and more stuck in something like "process quick sand". It is really tough to push through, and it feels like the size of companies we operate in has made everyone operate as if we're a bank or a similar large bureaucratic organization.
I don't know what the solution is, the only thing I can come up with is smaller team and organization size, to force more generalists into the organization.
And we call this "agile." That's what kills me every time.
I think team/organization scale management is definitely a significant component of this. Not the whole tangle of roots, but definitely a hefty part of the core.
I'm tempted to look at militaries (historically) as a source of insight, as they are the domain where humanity has consistently worked on that problem *and found solutions.*
The problem though is that most of those solutions tend to be... rough on creatives. Even still, I think there's something to how people in large teams need to be *sold* on the core vision of the game and on the core leadership of the project. Trust is a healthy motivator to pushing through discomfort and taking risks.
Of course, corporate America has shown us that it's not something you can just create with a few team exercises, and I think our interactions in school and with government have given the last few generations a predisposition towards distrust with authority.
... and now I'm back to not having any good ideas 😂
@@RagTagPwner The military essentially attempts to beat the individuality and originality out of its recruits in favor of "the collective" in "boot camp" and beyond, "collective" being a terrible word for a gaggle of humans, though that's the one still in near-ubiquitous use, as though humans were, say, a bunch of automatronic atoms swirling about one another in a Cosmic soup, completely separate and apart with no shared dreams or desires or ideas or will and in *need* of being told what to do, who to be and what to say/not to say every minute of every day. (Gee, I wonder why?) "Whistleblowers," of course, refute the success of that particular model in molding human beings according to arbitrary will, yet one might argue that very model of "governance" has been adopted across the board from government to business to education to heathcare along with a quite obviously techno-logical mindset that earnestly believes bandaids can heal any and all open wounds.
...and now I'm back to not "having" any ideas. :)
@@lrinfiwhat are you trying to get across
@@drnage4495 That narcissism (according to its spiritual, not "psychological", definition) and the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm still rules...for the moment.
I genuinely think there are people who have grown up in environments where they have to take everything literally. There is little to no implied sarcasm in their lives or hyperbole or exaggeration, which makes it hard for them to understand a story which is by design made to obfuscate the real events to hide identities and timelines.
These videos are an amazing window into the world of game development that you have experienced and I have never taken it as anything but thank you for them and never stop doing them or censoring yourself to avoid misunderstandings of people who can't see that this is only your experiences and they don't have to solve things you did decades ago for you lol.
Don't worry Tim, the majority understands what you were saying. Ed Boon talked about how they used to develop Mortal Kombat and change things daily. But nowadays if you want a little thing changed it's a 6 months process. I didn't understand what he meant until I heard what you said. My understanding is, that the modern corporate work environment makes it difficult to get things done. Right? People are incentivized to stretch the 10-minute work to a month. For many reasons.
Even if Tod Howerd wanted to innovate and try new things with Starfield he would be swimming against the tide. In this corporate work environment even If we get Timothy Cain and Josh Sawyer to develop Fallout New Vegas 2, big chance it will end up like Starfield.
We apreatate your videos. Hope those types of people don't turn you away. Masahiro Ito is one of Silent Hill developers. When he talks about the lore on Twitter, there are people who keep wrongly correcting him. Even tho he is one of the people who wrote the lore.
"Even if Tod Howerd wanted to innovate and try new things with Starfield he would be swimming against the tide." -- Thank you. One might argue that "swimming against the tide" is precisely what needs to be happening, but it's soooooo much easier said than done. People forget that Bethesda isn't calling all the shots at Bethesda these days. Zenimax was calling quite a few of them there for a while and now Microsoft will be. On the surface, that looks a lot more like an overwhelming tidal wave, but I gather that's why "undergrounds" are even a thing.
@@lrinfithat's what happened with redfall zenimax wanted that game because of the trends at the time 2018 the devs didn't want to nor did they had the experience making that sort of game also the pandemic
@@chilbiyito I can just feel the pressure being applied to Bethesda Softworks to monetize everything in its catalog that could possibly be monetized to try and make the recently approved deal between Zenimax and Microsoft look as appealing as possible to investors, but studios historically haven't existed solely to please shareholders, so overly focussed on ROI that game design itself is transformed to adhere to shady monetization practices and psy-ops the studios themselves along with their reputations, definitely, would be far better off without. Yet, they're increasingly being asked (and, even, ordered I'm sure) to engage in Skinner box game design and worse and that makes me wonder how much power the studios themselves wield today with "ownership" entities just a step or two higher up on the pyramid than they, which seem to have no problem throwing them to the wolves when things go wrong.
I feel for Arkane. I truly do. So many games like Redfall were in active development when the live service financial bubble burst, we'll probably never hear of them all. And what did the umbrella corporations do when it did? Released games such as Fallout 76 and Redfall in less than ideal states, to put it mildly, effectively washing their hands of them and allowing the studios and their developers to take all the criticism and worse for the debacle. Their reputations may never recover.
Studios that self-publish their games are among the most vulnerable because that publishing wing is highly likely to be split off into a separate entity eventually as with Bethesda Softworks and Bethesda Game Studios. I imagine there's then far less incentive to produce games out of the sheer love of producing interesting, innovative games and far more to please shareholders.
It's trends such as these Swen Vincke, et alia, have been heavily criticizing of late, though usually, if not always, solely on behalf of developers and certainly not players.
I truly hope Tim won't erase this comment from existence as the incident is public and UA-cam is a public forum, but Brian Birmingham opened up publicly about being terminated after sending an email stating he intended to resign in protest of the stack ranking system utilized by Blizzard at the time if he wasn't relieved of the responsibility of using it himself. I think that's terrible. Blizzard obviously considered him just another expendable cog in the machine. At the same time, though, I can only muster so much sympathy for the guy given the state of World of Warcraft and its own, increasingly insane monetization schemes. He didn't mind participating in those. His conscience only kicked in when people he personally knew and loved and worked with every day were impacted by that corporate employee policy. Never mind the "customers" being "addicted" to WoW and nickle and dimed to death. As a player and not creator of video games, I can empathize with industry professionals far more readily than I can sympathize with them because empathy doesn't require any emotion whereas sympathy does.
Developers, no doubt, feel they're alone and powerless to do anything about the way things are going in the industry, but they're not. If established, they have playerbases to draw strength from if they care to protest as opposed to going along with insitutionalized greed that affects them as well as the communities of players they themselves had a hand in forming. Someone will probably shortly mention unionizing and that may help, but will only go so far.
This caution you're seeing is in most creative industries/ team environments where something is produced as an end product (think health care or even an abstract like justice). All pervasive is the managerial culture, geared toward micromanaging employes into what is perceived as increased productivity. Personal reasonability, passion, and a willingness to positively engage in good-faith open discussions are all unwanted traits that will be actively punished in that environment; you are seen as "difficult" or "hard to manage" if you want to do anything other than what you're told to do or question why things are being done how they are. Waiting to be told what to do is a sad survival trait developed from contact with thin-skinned managers who don't have the capacity to do anything other than what they have learned in business school.
Keep shining the torch Tim, we won't get anywhere without it :)
I have been reading several of your posts. As an artist in the industry, the situation you describe really hits home. BTW, out side of video game development, the problems you talk about are very common. Thanks.
The first video was great, as a somewhat junior dev who came up in this new culture and doesn't know better. Don't be discouraged, your insight is very helpful.
As a fairly young Designer working on my first LARGE published game I find your channel to be one of the most positive places.
I face so many of the challenges you describe every day in the office. 🤣
Things are getting more intense as our announcement approaches and I find myself more and more often binging your videos.😂
I learn a lot and hearing my challenges from a veteran like you gives me a lot of hope.❤
Thanks Tim.
and your thinking wellp I glad its not only me...
Precisely 🤣
Plus some of the thoughts shared genuinely help me better navigate the chaos of game dev.🙏
Good luck Joshua. And congratulations on working on a big project.
"LARGE game" "announcement soon" Josh is working on GTA VI confirmed!!!!
/s
"LARGE game" "announcement approaches" Josh is working on GTA VI confirmed!!!!
/s
I'm a sucker for behind the scenes gamedev content and I have been watching at least one video every day since I found your channel. Having you share your decades worth of experience is an invaluable resource for anyone willing to listen.
I mostly avoid the comment section but even I couldn't help coming across posts, I think first on reddit, mischaracterizing your points and arguing them for drama. I hope you will not feel discouraged from such comments and basically just want to let you know I love your videos that started to sneak into my daily routine :)
I really appreciate your videos. Thank you for continuing to make them so frequently!
Never seen/heard of your content before these 2 that just got suggested to me.
As a software engineer with 5 years in a couple companies, it’s awesome to hear your stories and wisdom.
Thank you for caring and sharing what you care about - it does certainly affect others like me. It gets me thinking about being considerate to others, but also how I can improve myself and our processes (and I’m not even a game dev). Very motivating
Thank you so much for your insights, I am glad to have found your channel!
You are truly one the legends of game development of our time.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people."
I wouldn't worry about the response to what's said as you are a wonderful mind with great experience who provides a lot of value with these videos. We can't control anything but ourselves and you can be sure that you're doing right by yourself and by the target audience here, and the real ones will relate an understand. Not to suggest that you shouldn't respond like you're doing here, I just wanted to show some support and let you know devs are with you and appreciate your content, understand your perspective, and appreciate the real world examples.🙏
I appreciate the specific examples used in your videos, it makes it clearer, its why i think people like this channel.
Tim I really enjoyed your videos, as a game developer I have run into exactly what you're describing over the course of many years and I feel the same way as you!
I also like speaking in specifics and examples and run into many the same issues as you, folks tend to latch onto the example!
I am a relatively new developer (3 years in) and after watching this, its funny how many times I could relate to your examples. It gave me a lot of insight as to the shortcuts I've offered in the past just to solve the surface level problem and some direction on how to fix it. Really appreciate this video!
Wow, I really appreciate this video. Since the first one is what brought me to the channel, this was a good follow up. Anyhow, I don’t know the solution but I do think a lot of your other videos have hinted at answers. Like about challenging yourself, I think self imposing challenges can lead to less over caution.
As a layman to game dev, I find your perspective valuable. I especially appreciate the metered and nuanced approach. I imagine it's gonna be pretty difficult to prescribe solutions to every issue mentioned because there will be one for every person, so I get why there aren't solutions provided for every bit of caution. If only closing a door could be used in more situations, right? 😂
But for all the nuance you include in your shares, it's negativity that gets clicks. I think it's great you show up to add to tense issues like this.
Keep up the good work.
"there will be one for every person" -- I highly doubt that and agree with our greatest luminaries that it's the structure of human "consciousness" that is at issue, such luminaries including William Blake, Eugen Rosenstock Huessy, Jean Gebser, et alia, along with their present-day contemporaries, e.g. A. H. Almaas, author of 'The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization'.
"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern." ~ William Blake
It's great when you get a team to a point where they feel pyschological safty. In my experience it does take some time. But when things work out it's very rewarding. Sometimes it can be a process fix, and sometimes it can just be reviewing a process and finding ways to agree on a common language for things. Definately one of my favorite topics, glad to hear it get brought up. :D
Thanks for the follow-up video. I look forward to hearing what you have to say about rapid prototyping.
Hey Tim! Just discovered your channel and your content is awesome. I just went back to school for game development and I've been really excited. I really appreciate your videos they're extremely insightful but also make me warry.
Brilliant. I’m not in game development just a player so I can’t really add to the discussion but I can relate to what you’re saying, and really enjoy hearing you talk about your experience.
Tim, you are awesome. Great fireside chat. Love this content.
Sometimes it's the people, but more often than not its the processes within the organisation.
Coming from my point as a developer clear, concise communication in the process chain is VITAL!
Getting a process to make sure that all departments are aligned on the end goal with clear expectations is the key.
BTW fallout is awesome!!!!
Thank you for sharing all this knowledge and experience, Tim Cain.
It's amazing.
Thank you for sharing this Tim. This is incredibly valuable to those of us just getting into the field.
I'm glad I watched these videos without any commentary from another sources. I started to watch part 1 with someone saying "Yeah, we have to fire these employees that don't want their name on the whiteboard." And I thought to myself that there's got to be more nuance to this story and ended up watching the video without the commentary. I'm glad I did!
I don't work game design but to me this sounds like people need to have more ownership of a task. And sometimes that ownership can be passion driven too. I don't want to be an armchair dev either because I don't know the industry outside of hobbist blender and unity stuff.
I think I was able to see where you are coming from though, and it's a shame so many external commentaries twisted some of your words. Thanks for the clarification and the great videos. I hope to see more!
Thank you for being sincere and honest. I firmly believe that all coding projects need more people like you that get the conversation going.
Thank you for your effort trying to let people be aware of the situations.
But the sad reality is even pointing out the root problem, it will take a huge chunk of time for the intended change to happen.
I hope it makes you feel better that a lot of folks are trying to address them 🙂
Hey Tim. I have a theory, at least based on my experience. Gamedevs have no power any longer. They could easily do things like you describe if they were allowed to. But there's a whole plethora of people managing the devs in a studio, essentially taking all autonomy away from them. So the problem is not letting the devs be people and contribute in ways they think would be useful to the projects. Instead we have a bunch of rather clueless people managing them and demand status reports. If you question why such a person won't just do what's necessary to implement a simple feature, they will defer to their boss, because they don't want to get in trouble. And they will balloon estimates since a missed estimate is punished. Hate the process, not the people. I'm sure any of those devs could do the things that were asked in short time if they were on their own private project. Being in a big studio is just a whole other level of pain, with all the process you have to follow, all the monitoring you're under, and all the gates you need to pass.
If you want to do something about it, empower the devs in your org to contribute the way they prefer. Give them control over their own time, and move away from gating to coaching.
Just want to thank you for your videos and contributions to gaming over the years
The Doctor analogy is brilliant and right on the money. I really appreciate your thoughts, thanks for uploading. It’s a lot of food for thought
Hi Tim, Long time listener, first time commentor. I love you are speaking on these topics, your wisdom and resume speak for themselves! Listen to this man, people!
Thanks John. I have a lot of stories to tell, but they are all from programming and design perspectives. You should tell art stories!
Hi Tim
I'm working as a developer (not a game developer), but i saw your examples mentioned in the previous video all the time. I totally get your point and share your pain.
Treat this post as an encouragement post. Keep doing what you are doing.
Great intersection analogy - I am going to steal it! You see a similar thing in the B2B software world as well. Total lack of desire to understand the actual problem. I always try and apply HCD principles to deconstruct where the actual issue is (who is doing what when, where are the pain points) - but yeah it isn't always easy. I suspect "game dev caution" has a myriad of causes, each one specific to the environment where they are occurring. So you'd need to unpack each on a case by case basis.
You are a living legend. Keep saying what you're saying. Software and games needs this advice.
Right? I’m literally watching my favorite game kill itself! 🤦🏽♂️
I think a large part of the misunderstanding is that some people just want to use new arguments to justify their current way of thinking. Be it vindictiveness, fatalism, or apathy. I think what you're doing is great, Tim, and I'm thankful that some discussion's still being had as a result.
I noticed a lot of similar problems in my industry (integrated circuit design), which is way more "impersonal" than games, so I can only assume this kind of caution is part of a larger cultural trend.
If you feel that there is too little discussion about root causes etc, just remember that many discussions happen between people who watch your videos, in chat rooms and IRL. Your channel is a treasure trove of gamedev insight and a great starting place for discussion topics. It is great that you try to be as clear as you can on the purpose and intent of your videos, but also please don't be discouraged by feeling misunderstood, it's always gonna happen, especially when you talk about something as complicated as gamedev. Have a nice day!
I'm an Indie game dev building a company with a friend, I found your channel around a month ago and enjoy how you tell stories about problems you experienced with good explanations on how you fixed or wanted to fix those issues too. These videos are amazing and I'm always interested to hear what more you want to talk about. Comments from the internet are always going to be mixed with negative and positive as every person thinks differently. "X makes sense but Y is just dumb to me" It doesn't mean Y is a bad solution, but it's not as optimal as X probably would be or vice versa
Hello! :) Firstly, I would like to praise your efforts and ability to articulate the problems. As a fellow game designer and a "generalist" at the core, I would like to proceed and just offer a few explanations or possibilities for the problems you mentioned in this video. Number one - Genius Identity Syndrome. Here we have a personal identity where correctness trumps collaboration. The individual is stuck on the idea that making a mistake will expose him/her as average and become an asset that may be substituted by any other average individual. Number two - Punching the Clock. This is a different kind of identity problem where the individual does not connect to the art he or she is making. Relegating the responsibility for beauty/functionality to higher-ranking colleagues or/and just hating the structure but refusing to quit. And finally, Number Three - If we are building the Pyramids we are not slaves! Many think they are doing "A Job" when in reality they are giving their life energy into a living thing. All developers are parents. Parents in the digital realm. And getting paid is not the reward. The Pyramid is the Reward!
I felt that one. I'm still in Uni, but this problem seems to root in Uni. I feel like I need to ascend to a super psychologist until people relax enough to start spitting out their thoughts raw, and then, still, some consciously don't want to spit their thoughts raw. When someone third steps in and starts talking with them, it becomes obvious why they're so closed: "you should re-read the manual", "that's the wrong way of doing things stop talking about it", "no that's not how you do it, the right way to do it is... um... okay let me try... I guess..." and basically I feel like we're being placed in a toxic environment where all we learn is how to survive in a hellpit. Sure people get extremely good at surviving in hellpits, some paralyze and hibernate, others fight back like whacky athletes, others want to remain conscious so they just accept their fate and suffer. That's often women by the way. I don't want to know what people will be like when I go to work. It feels like you need to massage them a lot before they can start discussing something, and half hour later something will scare them again and they'll stiffen up again. I don't like it. No discussion, no curiosity, no respect, no aspirations, no helping, no asking for help, basically unwillingness to interface with the world. And nobody wants to be like me, they all want me to be like them. I don't get that part.
Sometimes Tim's shirt looks like he's wearing a bib in the thumbnail and I can't get over the thought of Tim sharing game design tips over a rack of ribs.
most of these issues sound like the generic issues that plague most corporate environments just seen through the lens of game development. i think i personally have dealt with every situation you described in both videos all while i was working doing medical manufacturing.
people get steadily trained to not care and do the bare minimum.
EXAMPLE: there was a guy who worked in a department that regularly interacted with the production side where i worked. he was never sick and never took unscheduled days off. every year the workers were given a rating of 0-5 on each of a long series of metrics. one of those metrics was "attendance". even though the guy never missed a day, he got a score of 3. Why? because EVERYONE always got a score of 3 on every score unless they had seriously screwed something up (then it would be a 2), and your yearly pay raise was tied to the review. guess what his response was after getting his review? he said, "fuck it, i am taking next week off". Why? because, the only thing you earned from going above and beyond was extra exhaustion.
these are problems that require a fundamental rework of the ENTIRE company culture from top to bottom, and without some major catastrophic event to wake people up, very few people will be interested in that level of change. the core solution you are looking for is something that would wake entire companies of people out of complacency and i highly doubt that there are many people who know how to do that (i sure don't).
i am not saying you should give up, but just recognize that the core issue runs far deeper than a few in house procedures, and the vast majority of the public is not equipped to give you competent answers. i find it very likely that there are a few people who have good solutions randomly surfing youtube, BUT you will have to sift through the infinite pile of ignorance to find those good solutions.
you talked about shining lights on boxes. let's take the analogy further:
you find that one of the boxes is wet.
Why is it wet? answer: something is dripping on it.
What is dripping? answer: there is a hole in the roof above the box letting rain in.
Why is there a hole in the roof? answer: the roof rusted through.
Why did the roof rust? answer: because the roof is 30 years old and no one maintained it.
How do we fix it? answer: replace the entire roof.
How much time will that take? many years.
How much will it cost to store stuff while the roof is replaced? millions of dollars.
How much will this process cut into profits? millions of dollars.
BUT! it is much more cheep and quick to move the boxes out from under the holes and just tag the wet areas as off limits.
Love this topic. Would love a part 3 where you spoke about your ideas for solutions!
I don't usually comment, but I really like your videos. It's refreshing that you're giving an honest opinion on the black box of game development. I also hate to write something like this, but I've always wondered how you even begin a game prototype - something to show off a game concept; which engine do you choose? If you haven't got any assets, what should you lean on? Is there a really rough prototype that you've seen that inspired awe? Anyway, I really hope you keep going with this. Your videos are sick
Tim, for what it's worth, I never come away from your videos with the wrong impression. I'm not sure how this stuff gets lost in translation for some folks, but please don't let them deter you from producing these videos. I like forward to them every day.
Tim, I'm new to your vids. I wish i worked with more people like you in my industry. There are too many people doing their jobs for a paycheck while lacking passion for what they do. Solving unique problems is frustrating, but can be a lot of fun. Most people just want to do the same old same old though, with no accountability or expectation of improvement.
I’m a software engineer and the team I am on have overcome some of the things you mentioned. Really enjoy these videos because I don’t think enough discussion/ meta analysis is happening about the issues around making software.
I absolutely enjoy you coming to youtube to brings to light.
The sad part, is there is a lot going on causing nerves to be shot and people be in edge. So UA-cams already toxic comment section is made even worse.
Please don't stop making these videos. You help me know that I still have a brain and still have worth to an industry that has little to no feeling.
Dude, thanks you for clarifying. I was so confused after the first video. Didn't understand the core issue, as you said.
People are always going to oversimplify and twist things to fit their own narratives. There's nothing you can do about that. It's just the world we live in now. You were clear in your original video.
Your "treating the symptoms, not the disease" analogy is apropos and also just how the world and the majority of people operate/think.
Would LOVE a video on rapid prototyping. Prototyping is so twisted in the industry - I swear 90% of the time I'm asked for a prototype what they really want is a vertical slice - and I'd love to hear your take/definition and style for rapid prototyping.
People that said you were the bad guy just don't want to be held accountable. That is the big issue in society and how people deal with communication.
Often times when stuff like this gets talked about, some of the biggest critiques are people who took personal offense to it because they saw themselves in the story.
It's nothing more than that. It sounds like an oversimplification, but that's the reality on social media now. People nit-pick, because they are too afraid to say a huge essay, or create content. Instead they prefer to sit in their small metaphorical cubicle and judge others on their creations and discussion.
The world is divided into creators and critiques. You are a creator.
Let the naysayers exist in their bubble, and let the forward thinkers continue on to do great things.
I appreciated your stories, and they gave me valuable insight that I will hold with me going forward into the industry.
I know this was released a couple months ago, but as a game design graduate I strongly appreciate you bringing this up. It's not just in the industry, its in our society. I care very much about the root causes of issues. You just earned a subscriber. I look forward to watching your other videos.
The hospital idea for road accidents made me laugh out loud, highly relatable to making games
Communication is key and we need more people like this in all development.
The competent people, the passionate people, the people who've seen what you've seen, you and they are on the same page.
I work in Infrastructure Architecture and I can't express how much this video (and the first installment) resonate with me. I plan on leveraging some of the examples used here to differentiate between solutions offered that are looking at/approaching the problem correctly and ones that are not. The inability for some to know the difference between the two is staggering.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic
The problem is that you can't really solve the warehouse's problems unless you make it operate like it used to (or at least change how it operates now). Because they're running off of boom bust cycles, people are always going to be, rightly, afraid for their employment, and they're always going to be nervous about doing something wrong.
If you want to see my reasoning, I am going to direct you to the video "The Video Game Industry is NOT Collapsing. A Lawyer Explains.", as that'll, I believe explain why I think the industry won't be changing in the way that I think would solve the problem (reducing the scope of games and increasing the number of them, so each project isn't a behemoth that's financial aims don't exponentially balloon until they pop with a failure and ruin thousands of lives under their weight)
I appreciate your channel and the insight you give!
I think alot of what Tim is saying during both part 1 and 2 is really how things operate everywhere and i think three's alot to unpacked but that this is really a metaphor about how alot of people are feeling everywhere in the world aswell, personal accountability is dead. especially when there's a bigger team to displace the accountability.
what you are saying is resonating with alot of people Tim, dont worry about what the negative comments are saying. this is your personal opinions and your aloud to state them
please continue with this conversations, it really does resonate
I feel you, I’m not in the video game industry but i see it every day with some individuals, love to see involved people talking about it
This video and it's predecessor made me realize that almost every game I've loved and go back to also pisses me off in one way or another. Because it took risks and some of those ideas didn't pan out. Almost every classic or beloved game has a few rough edges.
0:15 -- "Yeah I know the lighting's weird"
For what it's worth, I feel like the lighting seems actually better in this video.
Yup
I liked the whiteboard idea it gives you a clear cut goal and a place where you can see your accomplishments pile up on the com0leted side and if you are struggling you know what your goal is and what needs to be done to better ask for assitance
Very thankful for your existence Tim!
I was one ot the people who commented with a solution. I came from a point of trying to fill in the blanks more then trying to paint you as the bad guy. The scenario you described sounded so absurd that I just couldnt believe it. Thanks for taking the time to unpack your perspective again here. I now realize how bad it can be at some studios, sounds frightening.
One idea I'm working on is if I'm working with a team, I want to get everyone involved in the design process so everyone feels connected to the project. I think people lose a lot of motivation when they have their own ideas and no where to really present them without feeling like they're just handing out suggestions. I don't think the classical way of bouncing ideas off of each other and building off a single idea is effective enough to get an entire project team involved in design. The reason why I believe this is because in a meeting, you would need to give every individual a turn to speak (and the problem with this is time consumption). This was a lot harder to solve before the modern version of the internet, but now we have things like Discord that allow us to communicate seamlessly from all around the world. So in order to get everyone involved in the game design process, I had a thought about treating a game as if it were a character creation screen where you identify all the sliders and then everyone on the project team starts offering up different values for the sliders. An example would be like creating options for different characters, different buildings, different cities, different environments. With this idea, you can even take existing ideas and combine them in different ways to create new options. Then, when you want to start making decisions on what the actual game will be, you start putting the options to votes. I feel like this would work well, because psychologically, people would feel more involved. Game developers in the modern age have resources that people in the 80s did not have, millions of different examples to draw reference from.
Hey Tim I enjoyed your first video going over this and am jealous that you have had people who share the same admiration for game development during the meeting you had with the outer worlds dev. As someone who is graduating as a comp sci student what would be some words of motivation for someone who is young and inspired and entering the working world.
I know that this is beside the point, but as far as your videos and your approach to topics go, I'd love to work with you. Straight to the point, concise and not wanting to point the finger. I think I would grow exponentially with such people around. This is me blabbing on, but I think the points you make here speak to an increasing problem with maturity in the industry and its quite infectious, because people don't know how to approach them without alienating themselves. They're being cautious, in that sense.
Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on reviewing the progress of a game at the different stages: Concept, Pre-pro, production, etc. What have you found as effective approaches to playtesting, review, and iteration on the game within the team as well as with players.
loved your videos, and would have liked to be there discussing in the room about the game :-)
People are not conditioned now to FIX problems, but to minimize their negative results. Like we have lost the power to resolve an issue. People have become faint and weak, unable to challenge and confront. To make a hard decision. Everyone seems so intent on making sure no eggshells are broken.
Very thought-provoking.
The problem I run into a lot is that I can see what the symptoms are, I can see what the root cause is, but I have no control over fixing it. I can just tell someone "you've got this problem over there" and then they either do something about it, or much more likely... don't.
I don't know how people get over not being able to fix something that is clearly broken no matter who you ask.
There have been at least two cases of people who played games, reported a bug, it didn't get fixed and they eventually joined the company, got on the team for the game, fixed the bug, and then quit. Because their only reason to join the company was seeing that bug fixed. I don't think people 'get over' something being broken and not being allowed to see that thing fixed.
I labored over an indie startup for three years and then ran out of budget without even getting a demo finished in spite of working 60-80 hours/week at odd hours destructive to my health whilst managing a large team of part-timers and interns on an extremely limited budget and far too much ambition. Had I heard some of the talking points from your channel, I might have avoided a lot of pain and struggle learning some of these lessons on my own firsthand.
Tim, you got a heart of gold…and you’re expecting a lot from random people on the internet.
This kind of touched on something I have been wondering about, can you please do a video about switching roles in a big company? I've heard some stories from a few indie developers that the reason they chose to go indie was because they couldn't get a leading role or that they couldn't even get out of QA.
Strangely, though as far as I am aware none of them worked together, all of them mentioned that when they asked if they could make a pitch, they were denied and told to "stick to what you're good at" in various ways. I'd really like to know how changing jobs works from your perspective and if QA is a viable foot in the door, or if it's better to only apply for the job you actually want.
I wonder if you'd have any thoughts on the differences and or difficulties on programming interactive systems such as combat/inventory for keyboard and mouse vs. controllers. And overall do you think our current devices are holding us back from better combat in games. I know VR has some solutions with their unique controller styles but I still think regular gaming from a monitor/tv could evolve and be improved upon. To give an example, something like archery in video games usually is not very engaging with the controllers and only allows for pulling the string back a lot or a little but not much variation when it comes to how you hold the bow in the left hand. P.S. I do archery as a hobby so this is something that always sticks out to me in games. Great video btw as always!
The first video about this is incredibly important too. The underlying cause I suspect could be anxiety, or fear of being "that person" who threw a wrench into the gears. It can be a fear across most jobs I imagine, not wanting to rock the boat. But if you don't want to rock the boat or take risk you may just churn out something as safe and mundane as the attitude you had making it.
I don't sift through many comments but I think there can be tons of people that can misunderstand concepts or topics, just on a presumed percentage of people watching, some are bound to take anything the wrong way.
Thank you so much for the videos Tim, can we get a video about rapid prototyping in video game development? I'd love to hear your experiences and what that offered your teams in the past. I'm shocked that's not used much now.
Coming up in a few weeks!
I’m 39 and also a game developer, the situation these days in game studios is exactly what you described. The amount of people in games that shouldn’t be in games is the source of the problem. Making tons of money has turned game development into enterprise corporate cr@p.
Asmongold reacted to your part 1. That's how I found your channel.
In a dark, quiet corner of a vast, dark warehouse sits the box labeled "Vampires development: working with the Source engine". I sense many people would be quite happy to see that box brought under the light more...
I'm not in game development but I also think this problem could extend beyond game development. Also I like your videos.
Tim, love your analysis of systemic problems that exist today with game development. I think it's a lot deeper than what you think, in terms of the lens that people view life through. I see a lack of critical thinking and poor judgment and faulty belief systems, tainting people's ability to be creative and innovative. Also, like you said, inflation is underming the ability to put sufficient funds to ensure high-quality game design/content. BTW, I love the entire Fallout series; played them all.
definitely interested in the rapid prototyping video
I feel like people get too defensive sometimes. Tim isn't picking on individuals, but certain people feel targeted because they feel they are slower or less capable of implementing the vision of their work. However, I don't think Tim or anyone else is hating on your for giving your best. Sometimes we have to take a step back, and really look at our own capabilities and put those into a real context. Understand one thing, you arn't being attacked, Tim isn't trying to hurt you, he's wants to help you.
I love this. i need more Advice on Game Development.
thank you for making that video and clearing things up - there was a lot of important context missing in the first video that lead to me defending the position of the developer in a way, because i also heard a lot of attitude that comes from a simpler era of development and some of it does not work anymore the way it was back in the day. What i totally agree on is protoyping done without going to far into "real production", so i would love a video about rapid prototyping. I have the feeling that studios shift too early into production and the slower processes that comes with it while they have not figured out if the game design even works. So prototyping without the restrictions of modern game production is SO important - and doing this quickly and uncomplicted is really important. Especially WITH the knowledge that production processes slow down later, nailing game design BEFORE the project goes into that stage is key in my oppinion.
I see similar phenomenon in software development as well. Leaders often talk about taking ownership of topics, modules, frameworks, etc. But yeah, most people just want to be told what to do.
We need a co-op development model for games. A group of developers come in to make a game with the IP and final product being owned by everyone collectively. When the game ships, everyone can go their separate ways (or a few stay on to fix bugs for their fixed salary, or form new teams, or whatever) but every single person who worked on the game has life-time residuals on the game. The residuals era of development is what spawned the golden age of new development studios and innovation in games. We need that money to go to the creatives, not the middle management and executive monsters who care more about profit than their developers.
Bingo. Procedural solutions within a studio only work if the studio is the fulcrum, not the IP and/or purse holders. This doesn't solve problems with consumer mindsets and difficulties with costs vs. revenues, but it does address everything noxious that trickles down.
How do you reach consensus, if I put in more lines of code than every one else, I want to be paid more, how do you translate artist and other jobs to lines of code?
Maybe a co-op isn't right for you. Generally, people who are stuck in the mindset of "get mine" capitalism are not going to work well in a co-op situation where everyone has their own responsibilities and you can't necessarily track your work compared to theirs. @@GeomancerHT
Oh my gosh Tim you live in Seattle?? Me too!! If you're ever hanging out at game dev meetups or something that'd be so cool to run into you!
If this is a response to a certain UA-camr, then it's best to say they often misunderstand things and make bad takes.