I tried setting 6 up, 6 right, 6 down, and 6 left. Then if you dial 1 up, 1 right, 1 down, and 1 left that opens also -- again multiples of 5 -- perhaps some aid in decoding understanding.
I dont understand myself why that happens, but yeah I have one myself (different name because europe but still the same and I set up-down as combo. down-up doesnt work, also iirc bosnianbill also showed it in his recent vid about this funny little thing.
There are realistically 5^4 possible wheel positions and several ways to reach each one. It's like the clock twisty puzzle where you try to align all the times
I don't understand this either. It would seem like it doesn't matter what order the combination is being done (i.e. ↓→→↓ should move the wheels the same as ↓↓→→) yet somehow it *does* matter what order you do them in .
@@IznbranahlGoose I don't have one so its a little hard to tell in the video but from what I can see there are 2 positions the pins can interact with, one will turn the wheel 2 steps counter clockwise (what was shown in the video), the other will move the wheel 1 step clockwise. If all the wheels are positioned so the centre pins are in the 2 step position then you move the dial down the bottom wheel will rotate 2 steps CCW and the side wheels will move 1 step CW (because those pins are 1 step offset from the centre position), now the top and bottom wheel are oriented in the CCW 2 step position and the side wheels are oriented in the CW 1 step position relative to the centre pins. This gives you the order requirement and makes the move "remainder problem" much more complex than a simple remainder of 5 🙂 (again best I can tell not having one IRL - remainder referring to the mathematical operator). Edit: I think its actually more like 4-5 positions in the "2 steps", shifted dependant on orientation of the pin position but for explanations sake calling it 2 is easier to follow because it looks like there are 2 exit positions. It might be "1" or "2" "steps" both CCW with a single exit point instead of one being CW too (the one that starts CW then changes to CCW if it hits the centre star).
I just got into lockpicking and was lucky enough to pick up a bunch of american locks here in Hungary. Catch is, everything was without key, code or combination. I also got one of these directional locks. I got the two triangle screws out, but couldn't get the middle one, even with wd-40. So I drilled it, but missed the center a little and it didn't want to come apart. I kept on prying and out of nowhere the whole body sprung open spraying pieces everywhere. I thought well that is done for, but after watching your video a couple of times I managed to get it back together and it's working. Now with my own combination! Thank you very much for the video.
Very informative and excellent video. Glad Bosnian BIll recommended watching, it really does explain how the lock works. Now off to browse through all the rest of Chris Ahrens videos and see what other fun stuff happens.
Number of combinations: 1 048 757 Since each direction can effectively only be used a maximum of 5 times, there's at most 20 possible elements to choose from (5 up + 5 down + 5 right + 5 left), the sequence can be of length 1, 2, 3, .. 20 which means there's sum 20>(n_choose_k(20, i)) = 1048575 combinations Math
@@tobias1428 because each wheel is limited to 5 effective rotations, the lock has only 4^5=1024 internal states, and while it isnt immediately obvious to me which combinations you would need to use to check all 1024 of them due to the whole 3 wheel move thing, you dont need to check all combinations, just all internal states. With some work with paper and pencils (or better yet, a computer program), it should be possible to find a set of 1024 combinations with unique internal states.
idk, I just emailed ML asking why. In any case, I decided I like the idea of a directional lock, and am now designing a 2-direction electronic lock (I think 2-direction combinations would be easier to memorize, at least for me) for a control panel that a child might reach. Although I'm not visually impaired, I think it's good to design interfaces usable by people who are.
Absolutely fantastic look into the mechanics of this lock. I just got one, used, no combo and I been trying to decode it to no avail. And what you explain here has me thinking this will never happen. Their are way too many combo possibilities for me to simply guess at it. Thank you so much for doing this. You did a darn good job. Outstanding !!!!
this lock is fascinating. amazing engineering, reminds me of an enigma machine! The 2 resets are what really tie it all together. So if the 5/5/5 combo also works with 10/10/10...would 0/0/0 also work(no combo)? I don't even need a lock but I'm going to buy one of these just to play with.
I absolutely love these locks. I pulled one apart several years ago and they are a "bitch" to get back together! I think Chris's explanation is excellent. I would note one more thing that if you don't "reset" your combo when entering a new one, you place your "new" combo OVER the old one and you can lock yourself out if you don't realize what you did (In this case redial you old one and then the new one and you will get an open; i.e., been there, done that). I also note that only 1 push in of the shackle is needed to "reset" the lock (BE SURE to reset when setting new combo! + seems always need to "reset" before opening, especially when it gets "sticky"). I explored this lock even further and found that the original is made in China under patent by the Israel company "Knollan" under the model name "Saly Dance" (for the "outdoor? model), Kollan p/n 1201. Seems obvious to me that Knollan "cut a deal" with Master Lock and is reaping the royalties! (also seems obvious to me that Master has "cut a deal" with several other lock designs that we see under the Master label). I further note Knollan Patent No, 6718803. "Highest Security level in ASTM F833 Grade II" So by looking at the patent I found the designer who is in Israel. I had some communication with him about a higher security design, and he proposed a six figure investment to proceed. Anyone want to join the party? I wanted a 3/8" or 5/16" shackle with steel body, better internals, etc. for higher security -- I still believe that this would be an all time best selling FANTASTIC Padlock! So easy and simple to use. I have given many, many of these away and even found a person who liked them for handicapped children as they can easily open them.. I like to open these blindfolded and backwards! check' em out www.knollan.com PROS -- super easy to open, can be set to long combination, or easy one for gardener, maid, etc. access. CONS" -- not high security, does NOT hold up to weather FYI -- I'm not sure either how to decode one, but then again it's not "high security" BRILLIANT DESIGN -- Thanks Chris for showing us on video
Logic must be that you reset the lower wheel with the schackle and then the "change combination" does 2 things. Seperate the lower and upper wheel, and reset the upper wheel as well to prepare it for the new combination. Actually rather good, and intricate if you think about it being a rather cheap lock.
Just a beautiful design and a great video. I was waiting for mine to fail to open it up and see what makes it tick, but after 3 years it just keeps working! Thanks for the lengthy and clear explanation.
Thanks for that, BB sent me :). Question, are the wheel free to move when fully assembled as you showed moving them with the pick. If so, could a bit of very light shackle tension and mechanical vibration (say a sander minus the actual sanding pad) get the gates to line up?
it is just the count of each direction and not the sequence thas does matter? And all multiples of 5 resets the count to 0? In that case ist would just have 5^4 = 625 combinations.
Chris, you're probably going to see a lot of traffic on this one, since BB mentioned you in his vid. Being a LOCK GEEK, I greatly appreciate the time you took to do this.
How does it make order important? Up, down moves the top and bottom dial once and both sides twice, same as down, up. Pulling the shackle with a very specific tension should allow the wheels to drag slightly, which should provide a tiny bit of feedback when one or more of the wheels enters the correct position.
Looking more closely, it looks like each of the three ways to move a wheel leaves it in a slightly different place, but advances it by roughly the same amount. In that case each of the four locking mechanisms cares "How many times was I manipulated, modulo 5?" and "what direction was the last manipulation?". That makes the *end* of the sequence important, but only the last two different directions need to be in order. Are URDL and RUDL equivalent?
@@danpowell806 Looks to me like it just has to be the correct sum on each wheel modulo 5 and the order doesn't matter. The wheels are turned using the same cam if manipulated from the side or from the topdown. So in total I'd say it has 5^4=625 possible combinations in total. Looks reasonable, even though it's about two thirds of a 3 digit combination lock. The novelty may add a couple minutes to a brute force combination attack, if for whatever reason the ol' wrench trick was unavailable.
I did a room escape once that used one of those on a final lockbox. We had the worst time getting it to work despite having the combination....that is pretty fascinating how it works though. thanks
I think (at least part of) the trick is that with every push you rotate 3 dials (not just 1). So your code will rotate the the 'Up'-Wheel 2 times, the 'Down'-Wheel 8 times, the 'Left'-Wheel 6 times and the 'Right'-Wheel 8 times... Each wheel (the lower ones that need to be aligned to allow the shackle to move) has 15 possible positions (allowing in theory max. 50626 codes). Not sure why apparently 2 permutations of your code work while others don't - I think I might have to buy one of those... Probably 2, to take one apart :)
You are taking advantage of the multiple of 5. UUU LL UUU will also work, U LL UUUUU also works, same with UUUUU LL U. once you get past 5 the order doesn't matter as long as the sum is the same.
Each time the button is moved, three wheels move one step. Do the wheels always move in the same direction? Do they always move the same distance (number of degrees) each time, or is the distance dependent on which direction the button is moved? (It looked like they all moved counterclockwise in the video, but I couldn't tell for sure.)
I found a document where someone says the amount of movement can be 24, 48, or 72 degrees. The amount it gets moved can depend on which pin moves it, and what position it was in. Each disk can be in 1 of 15 positions.
But, if that is correct, starting with an unlocked state, moving the button in the same direction 5 times in a row should not return it to an unlocked state.
Hello, I am a UA-camr preparing to shoot UA-cam video content related to escape from a room in Korea. I wanted to explain the principle of the directional lock, so I bought a directional lock... Is it okay to upload a part of the video as a reference because the bolts are not loosened?
I donde 1 of those at a flea market new in its case for 1 dllr.but is missing the combination instruction paper The compartment is open and empty.is there something I can do to open it and set a new combo.?
If it's new and still has the sticker on the back (covering the change lever) then it only has 4 movements as default from Master -- So try some possible combos with only 4 movements, you should be able to decode it fairly quickly.
I'm thinking the best physical attack for the lock would be to pull on the shackle until the plastic on the wheels breaks and lets those 4 lugs move freely.
There's something that's missing from this explanation. Why don't UD and DU unlock each other? They should both move the upper/lower wheel once, and both side wheels twice. Edit: there's a detailed PDF on the web that indicates the movement of the discs are not constant. It varies based on prior input.
Is it me or do the order of the combination doesn't really matter? It seems only the number of times it has been pushed into each direction actually really matter, so I think a UDULRL combination could be opened with UUDLLR, for example. Am I wrong?
I think it is 5 choices maximum in each direction. As the order of operation doesn't matter when setting the "combination", you can make 4 choices a maximum of 5 times. ULDR,ULDR,ULDR, ULDR,UDLR for example. That makes for 20! / (20 - 5)!, or 1,860,480 total combinations. Rather impressive.
5^4 is correct if order is unimportant. If order is important, the exact number of permutations depends on in what manner order is important. It looks like maybe each wheel rotates to a slightly different position for each of the three directions it moves, which I think means that it matches both "How many times was this moved" and "what was the last movement that moved it.". In any case, the lower wheel has 15 slots, and the upper wheel must fit into exactly one of them, which means there are only 15^4 possible ways to assemble the four of them together. (matching the (5*number of moves*3 possible most recent moves). 15^4 = 50,625 possible combinations, not all of which are actually possible to attain if I'm right. If I'm right, UUDD is the same as [UUD]D (where anything in the [] operator can be done in any order). And [X]RU would be the same as [X]RU.
@@danpowell806 oops. I meant 5^4. I'm pretty sure each wheel only has 5 positions no matter which way the actuator is moved. I rewatched the video and I could be wrong but I'm pretty confident about that.
This really is a great video about a really interesting lock. The mechanics of the reset feature is what I find the most interesting for some reason. I couldn’t begin to think of a way to truly decode one
It really doesn't matter how many possible flapper sequences there are. If each of the four wheels has 5 positions, then there are only 5^4=625 possible wheel positions. There may be more possible flapper permutations but many of them are essentially redundant as many of them lead to the same wheel position that can open the lock. It's quite possible to make a long sequence that has several other much equivalent shorter sequences that also open the lock.
100% Thanks! This will probably take me a minute to figure out, meaning, a HOT MINUTE, a wail! What I find rather spooky is the fact that this cool hip quick dial padlock seems to be put together with esoteric symbols in combination. I find that rather odd since I sort of question people's faith in the relatively unknown! Open this lock up, and all these esoteric symbols are all working together, no wonder this lock gave me such a hard time,......this lock is the devil!😃🤔😒😈👽 👍👍👍 So far, I understand Tesla's flying saucer more! 😃
I don't have one so its a little hard to tell in the video but from what I can see there are 2 positions the pins can interact with, one will turn the wheel 2 steps counter clockwise (what was shown in the video), the other will move the wheel 1 step clockwise. If all the wheels are positioned so the centre pins are in the 2 step position then you move the dial down the bottom wheel will rotate 2 steps CCW and the side wheels will move 1 step CW (because those pins are 1 step offset from the centre position), now the top and bottom wheel are oriented in the CCW 2 step position and the side wheels are oriented in the CW 1 step position relative to the centre pins. This adds a order requirement to the combination instead of simply number of moves in a direction and makes the move "remainder problem" much more complex than a simple remainder of 5 🙂 (again best I can tell not having one IRL - remainder referring to the mathematical operator). Edit: I think its actually more like 4-5 positions in the "2 steps", shifted dependant on orientation of the pin position but for explanations sake calling it 2 is easier to follow because it looks like there are 2 exit positions. It might be "1" or "2" "steps" both CCW with a single exit point instead of one being CW too (the one that starts CW then changes to CCW if it hits the centre star).
I am wondering. Does the actual series matter. It appears it does not. So for example up up down is the code. Does down up up also work. My guess is it does.
I think this lock has 625 possible codes. longer or the same in a different order are just another way of getting the mechanism to the same place as the 625. Still alot if you are trying to guess a code. Very cool lock.
Thanks for your reply. I cant figure out why it wouldnt work if it simply index's the wheels 1 notch. It would seem that an "up" turns the top three rotors 1 increment. The down motion turns the bottom three. Since the rotation of the rotors is in the same direction regardless of the motion on the side dials i would think all the rotors would be in the right place regardless of series. I must be missing something in my understanding.
minib111 it's the way the notches line up. Say you go up the side wheels will contact the inner notch causing a slight counter turn then the outer to cause the proper turn. Down would contact the outer first causing a large counter turn then the proper turn. Hope this makes sense
So only 625 possible different combinations (4 digit base 5). The order of the movements isn't crucial, only the total in each direction. Up, up, down, up can be opened by up, up, up, down... and down, up, up, up... and so on. I am curious as to when he had 10 in each direction, and 5 in each direction would open it; would it even be locked at all after closing and resetting? Because, essentially, that is the same as 0 in each direction.
@@RPRosen-ki2fk ah, I see. He touched on it in another comment. There are 5 places on each wheel (72°) and 3 prongs that can turn each wheel that are 90° apart. So depending on the direction the center piece is moved, the amount of rotation is different. So... 3 prongs and 5 places on each wheel. And you can see this on the bottom wheel, it has 15 places for the pin in the top wheel to engage. This means 4 digit base 15 (50,625) possible combinations.
I didn't realize that these were mechanical. I thought they were electric. So you tried doubles like 3 and 6 but it only worked 5 and 10. Have you tried 4 and 9 clicks as they are 5 apart? Also with the way it works is "up up down" the same as "up down up"? I hope these questions make sense to you... lol
Phred Phlintstoner very good questions I didn't think about. The 4 and 9 didn't work. Tried the up,up, down compared to up, down, up. Looks like the the reason that don't work is when it goes up on the two side wheels it contacts the center star shape on the wheel then on return it hits the outer half Moon. On the down it hits the half Moon first then which causes a counter turn first. So up will give a small turn ccw then a big turn cw. Down would do a big ccw and a big cw. Hope that makes sense. Great questions made me think more on it
Great video. I'm in Wyoming and have 7 if these outside in the bitter cold. I always bring a jug of hot water because they will only operate after a quart of hot water goes on them. The problem is after a winter or two they fail completely and about 6 so far had to be cut off and re purchased. Dry lube, oils, don't do any good and customer service almost cried when I said they were used outside. This is costing be big bucks. Anyone?
dude... you're pouring hot water on a frozen plastic padlock meant to be used in a locker room... Get yourself proper weather sealed locks... Poor customer support, they have to deal with people like you...
It is permutations, with a maximum number of 5 counts per direction, 4 directions. If so, I compute 116,280 total number of permutations? That is 20! / (20 - 4)!
You can go more than a five count just if you make your combo at 5s I think it will double your chances you could make your combo 9up 9 down 9 left 9 right. Mathematically I don't know how to figure what this lock could do. If your combo was 10,10,10,10 then 5s and 10 would open but you still have to get the sequence right
Not really. If each of the four wheels has 5 positions, then there are only 5^4=625 possible wheel positions. There may be more possible flapper permutations but many of them are essentially redundant as many of them lead to the same wheel position that can open the lock. It's quite possible to make a long sequence that has several other much shorter equivalent sequences that also open the lock.
@@trondwell13 A permutation is an ordered sequence -- and they do not matter. It's the position of the wheels that allows the hasp to open. ANY sequence that results in the same wheel positions will open the lock whether or not that was the intended unlock sequence.
@@timharig i accept your total number but the mechanism moves three out of four tumblers for every direction so i find it hard to grasp that a different route would achieve the same pattern of four tumblers. best leave it at that as i had few moments of mathematical enlightenment
Ok. So... not 100% on how this works with the max of 5. But it doesn't really matter, once the lock is reset with the double shackle tap there will be a prescribed mathematical order to go through combinations in order to open the lock as pulling open the shackle does not effect the lock. So no matter how many times you get it wrong, no effect. I did math at uni but I couldn't make a start at the theory but I know ppl who could solve this in a toilet queue
While I think we can all agree that in general Master sucks, it's clear to me that at one point they hired a VERY talented engineer (and then probably fired him or lost him to Abloy or something). But this really is an outstanding lock. And of course, it's difficult to find online now.
Very clever mechanism, a lot of thought and R&D has gone into this padlock. It could be said it's almost over engineered for a "little bitty" padlock. Reeks of Asian design, due to its "complexity" and would require a some dexterity to put together on the assembly line. Thanks for showing Chris, and kudos to Master for a great little padlock that can't be "manipulated" quickly, unlike some of their other products .... Regards, Brian.
Clever machine! Not a high security lock of course but I can admire its design nonetheless. It borders on "elegant." Obviously any combination you may set has more than one actual solution. I'm sure it could be worked out into a mathematical formula. I reckon the total number of combinations is more than enough to make it as secure as a plastic lock needs to be.
After Chris replied to my comment I can see my original on my phone, but still not om my PC -- so problem is on my end, i.e., my PC - I'll investigate further. Lesson is DO NOT make a long comment or youtube "spams" the commentor, i.e., me. -- go figure
Bosnian Bill sent me. 😀
Thank you for your support
same here he sent me here to
Me too. What an ingenious design!
Me too lol
I tried setting 6 up, 6 right, 6 down, and 6 left. Then if you dial 1 up, 1 right, 1 down, and 1 left that opens also -- again multiples of 5 -- perhaps some aid in decoding understanding.
although because the order matters it gets a LOT more fun, even with long combinations.
I dont understand myself why that happens, but yeah I have one myself (different name because europe but still the same and I set up-down as combo. down-up doesnt work, also iirc bosnianbill also showed it in his recent vid about this funny little thing.
There are realistically 5^4 possible wheel positions and several ways to reach each one. It's like the clock twisty puzzle where you try to align all the times
I don't understand this either. It would seem like it doesn't matter what order the combination is being done (i.e. ↓→→↓ should move the wheels the same as ↓↓→→) yet somehow it *does* matter what order you do them in .
@@IznbranahlGoose I don't have one so its a little hard to tell in the video but from what I can see there are 2 positions the pins can interact with, one will turn the wheel 2 steps counter clockwise (what was shown in the video), the other will move the wheel 1 step clockwise.
If all the wheels are positioned so the centre pins are in the 2 step position then you move the dial down the bottom wheel will rotate 2 steps CCW and the side wheels will move 1 step CW (because those pins are 1 step offset from the centre position), now the top and bottom wheel are oriented in the CCW 2 step position and the side wheels are oriented in the CW 1 step position relative to the centre pins.
This gives you the order requirement and makes the move "remainder problem" much more complex than a simple remainder of 5 🙂 (again best I can tell not having one IRL - remainder referring to the mathematical operator).
Edit: I think its actually more like 4-5 positions in the "2 steps", shifted dependant on orientation of the pin position but for explanations sake calling it 2 is easier to follow because it looks like there are 2 exit positions. It might be "1" or "2" "steps" both CCW with a single exit point instead of one being CW too (the one that starts CW then changes to CCW if it hits the centre star).
I just got into lockpicking and was lucky enough to pick up a bunch of american locks here in Hungary. Catch is, everything was without key, code or combination.
I also got one of these directional locks. I got the two triangle screws out, but couldn't get the middle one, even with wd-40. So I drilled it, but missed the center a little and it didn't want to come apart. I kept on prying and out of nowhere the whole body sprung open spraying pieces everywhere.
I thought well that is done for, but after watching your video a couple of times I managed to get it back together and it's working. Now with my own combination!
Thank you very much for the video.
Very informative and excellent video. Glad Bosnian BIll recommended watching, it really does explain how the lock works. Now off to browse through all the rest of Chris Ahrens videos and see what other fun stuff happens.
Thank you for your support and kind words
Thank you so much for this excellent explanation of a brilliant mechanism! I only wish I could have watched you reassemble it.
Number of combinations: 1 048 757
Since each direction can effectively only be used a maximum of 5 times, there's at most 20 possible elements to choose from (5 up + 5 down + 5 right + 5 left), the sequence can be of length 1, 2, 3, .. 20 which means there's sum 20>(n_choose_k(20, i)) = 1048575 combinations
Math
Not sure about that. Isn't it n!/(k1!*k2!*k3!*k4!) ? So 11732745024 combinations already for using a sequence of 20.
@@tobias1428 because each wheel is limited to 5 effective rotations, the lock has only 4^5=1024 internal states, and while it isnt immediately obvious to me which combinations you would need to use to check all 1024 of them due to the whole 3 wheel move thing, you dont need to check all combinations, just all internal states. With some work with paper and pencils (or better yet, a computer program), it should be possible to find a set of 1024 combinations with unique internal states.
Why did they discontinue this lock? And why don't they make it in more styles like with more resilient materials for different applications?
idk, I just emailed ML asking why. In any case, I decided I like the idea of a directional lock, and am now designing a 2-direction electronic lock (I think 2-direction combinations would be easier to memorize, at least for me) for a control panel that a child might reach. Although I'm not visually impaired, I think it's good to design interfaces usable by people who are.
@@Boodlums You can do it!!
Absolutely fantastic look into the mechanics of this lock. I just got one, used, no combo and I been trying to decode it to no avail. And what you explain here has me thinking this will never happen. Their are way too many combo possibilities for me to simply guess at it. Thank you so much for doing this. You did a darn good job. Outstanding !!!!
this lock is fascinating. amazing engineering, reminds me of an enigma machine! The 2 resets are what really tie it all together. So if the 5/5/5 combo also works with 10/10/10...would 0/0/0 also work(no combo)? I don't even need a lock but I'm going to buy one of these just to play with.
I absolutely love these locks. I pulled one apart several years ago and they are a "bitch" to get back together! I think Chris's explanation is excellent. I would note one more thing that if you don't "reset" your combo when entering a new one, you place your "new" combo OVER the old one and you can lock yourself out if you don't realize what you did (In this case redial you old one and then the new one and you will get an open; i.e., been there, done that). I also note that only 1 push in of the shackle is needed to "reset" the lock (BE SURE to reset when setting new combo! + seems always need to "reset" before opening, especially when it gets "sticky").
I explored this lock even further and found that the original is made in China under patent by the Israel company "Knollan" under the model name "Saly Dance" (for the "outdoor? model), Kollan p/n 1201. Seems obvious to me that Knollan "cut a deal" with Master Lock and is reaping the royalties! (also seems obvious to me that Master has "cut a deal" with several other lock designs that we see under the Master label).
I further note Knollan Patent No, 6718803. "Highest Security level in ASTM F833 Grade II" So by looking at the patent I found the designer who is in Israel. I had some communication with him about a higher security design, and he proposed a six figure investment to proceed. Anyone want to join the party? I wanted a 3/8" or 5/16" shackle with steel body, better internals, etc. for higher security -- I still believe that this would be an all time best selling FANTASTIC Padlock!
So easy and simple to use. I have given many, many of these away and even found a person who liked them for handicapped children as they can easily open them.. I like to open these blindfolded and backwards!
check' em out www.knollan.com
PROS -- super easy to open, can be set to long combination, or easy one for gardener, maid, etc. access.
CONS" -- not high security, does NOT hold up to weather
FYI -- I'm not sure either how to decode one, but then again it's not "high security"
BRILLIANT DESIGN -- Thanks Chris for showing us on video
Ken Nixon maybe you can see it if I comment
Chris Ahrens LHG I can see on my phone now
Thanks for the spring explanation. Now that I know where it goes I can attempt to put it back together
I was always curios to understand how this lock works - great explanation and demo. Thanks a lot - really enjoyed watching.
Potti314 I would love to see you decode it. If anyone could do it you can.
This engineering in this lock is awesome on so many levels.
Again Bill sent me, really did a fine job explaining this. Thanks for taking the time to do it. New to lock sport and so much out there to learn. 🗝
Logic must be that you reset the lower wheel with the schackle and then the "change combination" does 2 things.
Seperate the lower and upper wheel, and reset the upper wheel as well to prepare it for the new combination.
Actually rather good, and intricate if you think about it being a rather cheap lock.
Great video, followed the Lock-Lab link. I enjoyed the pause as you tried to and finally grasped how the reset mechanics functioned.
Thank you. Thank you for your support
Just a beautiful design and a great video. I was waiting for mine to fail to open it up and see what makes it tick, but after 3 years it just keeps working! Thanks for the lengthy and clear explanation.
Thank you I really appreciate it
Awesome engineering. Thanks for the video, totally nailed it!
Thanks for that, BB sent me :). Question, are the wheel free to move when fully assembled as you showed moving them with the pick. If so, could a bit of very light shackle tension and mechanical vibration (say a sander minus the actual sanding pad) get the gates to line up?
I don't know if the vibration would rotate the wheels but no idea is a bad idea
So the 10 up 10 down that works with 5 up 5 down would work with any multiple of 5?
How did u open the middle screw?
Awesome video sir! Thank you so much for your time and effort! Very interesting
Fabulous video, I pick locks for hobby. This is fascinating.
Thanks for this. I've been wondering how does the internal look like! Just learnt about this lock less than an hour ago only.
it is just the count of each direction and not the sequence thas does matter? And all multiples of 5 resets the count to 0? In that case ist would just have 5^4 = 625 combinations.
That's really neat. I wondered how they worked. Thanks for taking it apart and sharing that.
Chris, you're probably going to see a lot of traffic on this one, since BB mentioned you in his vid. Being a LOCK GEEK, I greatly appreciate the time you took to do this.
Lol I can tell BB is a popular guy and I appreciate his Shout outs.
Great video. Thanks for breaking this lock down for me. The mechanism is clever.
Thanks for watching
How does it make order important? Up, down moves the top and bottom dial once and both sides twice, same as down, up.
Pulling the shackle with a very specific tension should allow the wheels to drag slightly, which should provide a tiny bit of feedback when one or more of the wheels enters the correct position.
Looking more closely, it looks like each of the three ways to move a wheel leaves it in a slightly different place, but advances it by roughly the same amount. In that case each of the four locking mechanisms cares "How many times was I manipulated, modulo 5?" and "what direction was the last manipulation?". That makes the *end* of the sequence important, but only the last two different directions need to be in order. Are URDL and RUDL equivalent?
@@danpowell806 Looks to me like it just has to be the correct sum on each wheel modulo 5 and the order doesn't matter. The wheels are turned using the same cam if manipulated from the side or from the topdown. So in total I'd say it has 5^4=625 possible combinations in total. Looks reasonable, even though it's about two thirds of a 3 digit combination lock. The novelty may add a couple minutes to a brute force combination attack, if for whatever reason the ol' wrench trick was unavailable.
@@E1nsty Look again. The three ways of moving the wheel give slightly different end states.
How the heck do I get this spring on?
I did a room escape once that used one of those on a final lockbox. We had the worst time getting it to work despite having the combination....that is pretty fascinating how it works though. thanks
Average Picker they are a little sticky and as you could see dirt gets in it very easily
That is very clever engineering! I would use that for a locker or something where a destructive attack would draw too much attention.
Interestingly, when I set my padlock on: UU LL UUUU, I can also open it with UUUU LL UU. Other variations doesn't work.
I think (at least part of) the trick is that with every push you rotate 3 dials (not just 1). So your code will rotate the the 'Up'-Wheel 2 times, the 'Down'-Wheel 8 times, the 'Left'-Wheel 6 times and the 'Right'-Wheel 8 times... Each wheel (the lower ones that need to be aligned to allow the shackle to move) has 15 possible positions (allowing in theory max. 50626 codes). Not sure why apparently 2 permutations of your code work while others don't - I think I might have to buy one of those... Probably 2, to take one apart :)
You are taking advantage of the multiple of 5. UUU LL UUU will also work, U LL UUUUU also works, same with UUUUU LL U. once you get past 5 the order doesn't matter as long as the sum is the same.
Each time the button is moved, three wheels move one step. Do the wheels always move in the same direction? Do they always move the same distance (number of degrees) each time, or is the distance dependent on which direction the button is moved?
(It looked like they all moved counterclockwise in the video, but I couldn't tell for sure.)
I found a document where someone says the amount of movement can be 24, 48, or 72 degrees. The amount it gets moved can depend on which pin moves it, and what position it was in. Each disk can be in 1 of 15 positions.
But, if that is correct, starting with an unlocked state, moving the button in the same direction 5 times in a row should not return it to an unlocked state.
Nice explanation :-) it’s an ingenious mechanism... shame they made it out of weak materials
Very thorough explanation, thanks for sharing.
Cameron Dunn thank you
Hello, I am a UA-camr preparing to shoot UA-cam video content related to escape from a room in Korea. I wanted to explain the principle of the directional lock, so I bought a directional lock... Is it okay to upload a part of the video as a reference because the bolts are not loosened?
You know you have been watching too much AvE when you scream “focus you fauhck!” at other people’s videos
I donde 1 of those at a flea market new in its case for 1 dllr.but is missing the combination instruction paper
The compartment is open and empty.is there something I can do to open it and set a new combo.?
Jose Gonzales the only way I know would be to take it apart and manually turn the wheels
Ok it looks like that's what I'll do.thanks very much..
If it's new and still has the sticker on the back (covering the change lever) then it only has 4 movements as default from Master -- So try some possible combos with only 4 movements, you should be able to decode it fairly quickly.
I'm thinking the best physical attack for the lock would be to pull on the shackle until the plastic on the wheels breaks and lets those 4 lugs move freely.
There's something that's missing from this explanation. Why don't UD and DU unlock each other? They should both move the upper/lower wheel once, and both side wheels twice. Edit: there's a detailed PDF on the web that indicates the movement of the discs are not constant. It varies based on prior input.
How do you reset the lock if you forget the combination?
You can't. It has to be taken apart.
Is it me or do the order of the combination doesn't really matter? It seems only the number of times it has been pushed into each direction actually really matter, so I think a UDULRL combination could be opened with UUDLLR, for example. Am I wrong?
The order does matter
The discs don't always move in 72 degree movements. So, the movement depends on prior input. It's rather clever. The video doesn't reveal that.
Great video. So on my understanding the actual permutation count is 5^5 or 625 right?
If I've done my math correctly (and I'm no mathematician), the number of possible permutations should be 1,860,480
Do R/C 625 is correct 5 to the fourth power.
I think it is 5 choices maximum in each direction. As the order of operation doesn't matter when setting the "combination", you can make 4 choices a maximum of 5 times. ULDR,ULDR,ULDR, ULDR,UDLR for example. That makes for 20! / (20 - 5)!, or 1,860,480 total combinations. Rather impressive.
5^4 is correct if order is unimportant. If order is important, the exact number of permutations depends on in what manner order is important. It looks like maybe each wheel rotates to a slightly different position for each of the three directions it moves, which I think means that it matches both "How many times was this moved" and "what was the last movement that moved it.". In any case, the lower wheel has 15 slots, and the upper wheel must fit into exactly one of them, which means there are only 15^4 possible ways to assemble the four of them together. (matching the (5*number of moves*3 possible most recent moves).
15^4 = 50,625 possible combinations, not all of which are actually possible to attain if I'm right.
If I'm right, UUDD is the same as [UUD]D (where anything in the [] operator can be done in any order). And [X]RU would be the same as [X]RU.
@@danpowell806 oops. I meant 5^4. I'm pretty sure each wheel only has 5 positions no matter which way the actuator is moved. I rewatched the video and I could be wrong but I'm pretty confident about that.
This really is a great video about a really interesting lock. The mechanics of the reset feature is what I find the most interesting for some reason. I couldn’t begin to think of a way to truly decode one
Thank you. I really like the lock. I don't have a clue how to decode but if anyone could figure it out I think it would be potti314
I'm waiting for someone to machine one of these from high melting point metal.
It really doesn't matter how many possible flapper sequences there are. If each of the four wheels has 5 positions, then there are only 5^4=625 possible wheel positions. There may be more possible flapper permutations but many of them are essentially redundant as many of them lead to the same wheel position that can open the lock. It's quite possible to make a long sequence that has several other much equivalent shorter sequences that also open the lock.
Look at the lower wheel. There are 15 positions. Also, you have to take into account that 1 wheel doesn't spin while the other 3 are spun.
if you were trying to discourage somebody from buying this gadget, you did a fine job, my friend.
Love these locks! -- THANKS CHRIS for helping me -- EXCELLENT VIDEO
100% Thanks!
This will probably take me a minute to figure out, meaning, a HOT MINUTE, a wail!
What I find rather spooky is the fact that this cool hip quick dial padlock seems to be put together with esoteric symbols in combination.
I find that rather odd since I sort of question people's faith in the relatively unknown!
Open this lock up, and all these esoteric symbols are all working together, no wonder this lock gave me such a hard time,......this lock is the devil!😃🤔😒😈👽 👍👍👍
So far, I understand Tesla's flying saucer more! 😃
I don't have one so its a little hard to tell in the video but from what I can see there are 2 positions the pins can interact with, one will turn the wheel 2 steps counter clockwise (what was shown in the video), the other will move the wheel 1 step clockwise.
If all the wheels are positioned so the centre pins are in the 2 step position then you move the dial down the bottom wheel will rotate 2 steps CCW and the side wheels will move 1 step CW (because those pins are 1 step offset from the centre position), now the top and bottom wheel are oriented in the CCW 2 step position and the side wheels are oriented in the CW 1 step position relative to the centre pins.
This adds a order requirement to the combination instead of simply number of moves in a direction and makes the move "remainder problem" much more complex than a simple remainder of 5 🙂 (again best I can tell not having one IRL - remainder referring to the mathematical operator).
Edit: I think its actually more like 4-5 positions in the "2 steps", shifted dependant on orientation of the pin position but for explanations sake calling it 2 is easier to follow because it looks like there are 2 exit positions. It might be "1" or "2" "steps" both CCW with a single exit point instead of one being CW too (the one that starts CW then changes to CCW if it hits the centre star).
Very cool video Chris my friend awesome demonstration and explanation nicely done👍👍😊👍😊😎✌✌✌
In multiples of 5 -- so say you set it at 6 (in same direction), then would just 1 work? Guess I'll have to try it on one of mine.
Yes, If you set to say 6 up (only) then 1 up works, 11 up works, etc., any multiples of 5
I am wondering. Does the actual series matter. It appears it does not. So for example up up down is the code. Does down up up also work. My guess is it does.
I think this lock has 625 possible codes. longer or the same in a different order are just another way of getting the mechanism to the same place as the 625. Still alot if you are trying to guess a code. Very cool lock.
The series does matter up up down is not the same as down up up won't work
Thanks for your reply. I cant figure out why it wouldnt work if it simply index's the wheels 1 notch. It would seem that an "up" turns the top three rotors 1 increment. The down motion turns the bottom three. Since the rotation of the rotors is in the same direction regardless of the motion on the side dials i would think all the rotors would be in the right place regardless of series. I must be missing something in my understanding.
minib111 it's the way the notches line up. Say you go up the side wheels will contact the inner notch causing a slight counter turn then the outer to cause the proper turn. Down would contact the outer first causing a large counter turn then the proper turn. Hope this makes sense
So only 625 possible different combinations (4 digit base 5). The order of the movements isn't crucial, only the total in each direction. Up, up, down, up can be opened by up, up, up, down... and down, up, up, up... and so on. I am curious as to when he had 10 in each direction, and 5 in each direction would open it; would it even be locked at all after closing and resetting? Because, essentially, that is the same as 0 in each direction.
Charles Shores You are correct about the multiples of 5 (1,6,11 are all the same number), but you are wrong about order. It does matter.
How can order matter when each wheel has fivefold symmetry? Doesn't each maneuver rotate three wheels by 72 degrees?
@@RPRosen-ki2fk ah, I see. He touched on it in another comment. There are 5 places on each wheel (72°) and 3 prongs that can turn each wheel that are 90° apart. So depending on the direction the center piece is moved, the amount of rotation is different. So... 3 prongs and 5 places on each wheel. And you can see this on the bottom wheel, it has 15 places for the pin in the top wheel to engage. This means 4 digit base 15 (50,625) possible combinations.
I didn't realize that these were mechanical. I thought they were electric. So you tried doubles like 3 and 6 but it only worked 5 and 10. Have you tried 4 and 9 clicks as they are 5 apart? Also with the way it works is "up up down" the same as "up down up"? I hope these questions make sense to you... lol
Phred Phlintstoner very good questions I didn't think about. The 4 and 9 didn't work. Tried the up,up, down compared to up, down, up. Looks like the the reason that don't work is when it goes up on the two side wheels it contacts the center star shape on the wheel then on return it hits the outer half Moon. On the down it hits the half Moon first then which causes a counter turn first. So up will give a small turn ccw then a big turn cw. Down would do a big ccw and a big cw. Hope that makes sense. Great questions made me think more on it
With my a bit rusty math I ended up with ~15504 when we have max 20 lenght.
Ingenious mechanism
Brilliant!
Very cool mechanism to bad it's made out of plastic great video Chris.
Interesting lock for sure !
Thanks
I had posted a long comment a while back and now it's gone? Who deleted it and why?
Ken Nixon your comment is still there i can see it
I still cannot see my long comment -- can anyone else?
Amazing video!
Great video. I'm in Wyoming and have 7 if these outside in the bitter cold. I always bring a jug of hot water because they will only operate after a quart of hot water goes on them. The problem is after a winter or two they fail completely and about 6 so far had to be cut off and re purchased. Dry lube, oils, don't do any good and customer service almost cried when I said they were used outside. This is costing be big bucks. Anyone?
lube them before they fail and put a shroud over them
I give them a good squirt of silicone spray inside - it helps repel water and lubes them.
dude... you're pouring hot water on a frozen plastic padlock meant to be used in a locker room... Get yourself proper weather sealed locks... Poor customer support, they have to deal with people like you...
Potti314 would love this! great work Chris!
Rookie Lock I know he could crack it
so what you're telling me if we replaced everything with steel it'd be better
It is permutations, with a maximum number of 5 counts per direction, 4 directions. If so, I compute 116,280 total number of permutations? That is 20! / (20 - 4)!
You can go more than a five count just if you make your combo at 5s I think it will double your chances you could make your combo 9up 9 down 9 left 9 right. Mathematically I don't know how to figure what this lock could do. If your combo was 10,10,10,10 then 5s and 10 would open but you still have to get the sequence right
Not really. If each of the four wheels has 5 positions, then there are only 5^4=625 possible wheel positions. There may be more possible flapper permutations but many of them are essentially redundant as many of them lead to the same wheel position that can open the lock. It's quite possible to make a long sequence that has several other much shorter equivalent sequences that also open the lock.
@@timharig i think the lock defines a sequence not individual states on each rota
@@trondwell13 A permutation is an ordered sequence -- and they do not matter. It's the position of the wheels that allows the hasp to open. ANY sequence that results in the same wheel positions will open the lock whether or not that was the intended unlock sequence.
@@timharig i accept your total number but the mechanism moves three out of four tumblers for every direction so i find it hard to grasp that a different route would achieve the same pattern of four tumblers. best leave it at that as i had few moments of mathematical enlightenment
Sad to see that the internals are all plastic. Every chain has a weak link and that's it.
Ok. So... not 100% on how this works with the max of 5. But it doesn't really matter, once the lock is reset with the double shackle tap there will be a prescribed mathematical order to go through combinations in order to open the lock as pulling open the shackle does not effect the lock. So no matter how many times you get it wrong, no effect. I did math at uni but I couldn't make a start at the theory but I know ppl who could solve this in a toilet queue
While I think we can all agree that in general Master sucks, it's clear to me that at one point they hired a VERY talented engineer (and then probably fired him or lost him to Abloy or something). But this really is an outstanding lock. And of course, it's difficult to find online now.
Bill said the party was here, am I too late? ;)
Very clever mechanism, a lot of thought and R&D has gone into this padlock. It could be said it's almost over engineered for a "little bitty" padlock. Reeks of Asian design, due to its "complexity" and would require a some dexterity to put together on the assembly line. Thanks for showing Chris, and kudos to Master for a great little padlock that can't be "manipulated" quickly, unlike some of their other products .... Regards, Brian.
Very interesting mechanism. Too bad they chose to make it out of poop. Thanks for the vid!
Clever machine! Not a high security lock of course but I can admire its design nonetheless. It borders on "elegant."
Obviously any combination you may set has more than one actual solution. I'm sure it could be worked out into a mathematical formula. I reckon the total number of combinations is more than enough to make it as secure as a plastic lock needs to be.
After Chris replied to my comment I can see my original on my phone, but still not om my PC -- so problem is on my end, i.e., my PC - I'll investigate further. Lesson is DO NOT make a long comment or youtube "spams" the commentor, i.e., me. -- go figure
If only they made the components out of metal.
Jesus Loves You
Ha! Its an old N64 controller LOL