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Monsieur Z You should do a video explaining the entire lore of Code Geass and what if the Holy Britannian Empire under either Charles’ or Lelouch’s reign and if they invaded our modern United States under Trump’s presidency and who would win in a war
I agree with that. I'd predict that the North American Norse would eventually expand westward along the St. Lawrence river and the great lakes. While northern French Québec and British Massachusetts bay colonies would be wiped out by NAN raiders, southern colonies such as Virginia and Carolina for the British and Louisiana for the French would be possible. The Dutch New Holland colony may fair better as NAN neighbors. So with this time line no one celebrates those hypocritical Puritans called the Pilgrims with Thanksgiving. I'd even go as far as saying that the border between either New Holland and New England (Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, Georgia, and maybe Delaware) would be the Mason Dixon line, and the Ohio river. While the French Louisiana and New England border would be the Mississippi river initially, or at least until the inevitable French and Indian war of 1754-1763. With a larger colonial presence in the new world, the British would have still won that war, and the colonies may not have revolted, as the southern colonies had more loyalists than the north to begin with. The only reason that the Continentals won the Revolution was because of strategic blunders in the south by Cornwallis and Ferguson. By sending "don't get involved, or we'll burn you out" letters to the Scots-Irish settlers of western North Carolina they alienated potential supporters, and created determined enemies instead.
To be perfectly honest and with history the Vikings weren't even the first. Phoenicians was the first, followed by Roman Christians. Then Irish monks fleeing Vikings. Then Vikings. Then Chinese. The Welsh lost at see. Then Azore fishermen, (the dried fish Columbus bought on the Azore Islands was from Florida). Then Columbus. Then Mali empire soldiers. Yes there is evidence to all of this. Even a cave in Brazil has writing in Phoenician. Says they was mining gems there for seven years but tensions with the locals forced them to abandon it.
@@fredriks5090 remains of a Roman cargo ship was found in north Carolina. Christian items was found in the remain. Dates back to 40 A.D. America's Stonehenge was made by Phoenicians, Phoenician writing was seen everywhere before its removal in 1910. Cave in Brazil also confirms Phoenicians had 3 mining settlements with the longest lasting 7 years. Remains of a small settlement located 70 miles north of American Stonehenge. 2 bodies found there with a Rosary at their waist confirms they were monks, DNA test shows from Ireland. The only Viking settlements was in Canada. Reports say it was started by Leif Erikson's sister. Old history from Canadian tribes confirms this well. They drove them off because they thought they was try to poison them. Native Americans are mostly lactose intolerant.
I feel colonialism would also slow greatly, over four centuries-agricultural and metalworking techniques from the Norse making their way into native hands is inevitable. North American tribes would likely be similar to that of the Germanic tribes, resistant to diseases, farming and perhaps even utilising horses brought over by the Norse. A nightmare for France and Britain for sure.
Nope i believe the vikings would've killed off the natives because whenever the vikings came into contact with the siberians they would fight each other
Dixie Proud anglo American the story of the a few ships that sailed to shore in Vinland was that they were attacked by the native tribes, they were never able to set up a settlement before they were wiped out or forced to return to their ships
I think the later colonists would have one major advantage over the Norse colony...gunpowder. Even though firearms were primitive in 1492, they would gradually improve over the coming centuries. That would make them a game-changer in this Euro-Norse War. Also, I think the Viking colony might have inadvertently made it harder for the later Europeans to colonize elsewhere. The Vikings would bring with them European diseases much earlier than in OTL. That might give the natives a chance to build up an immunity to them as well as allowing them a few centuries to repopulate after the initial outbreak. Thus, the Spanish and Portuguese would have a much harder time conquering South America and the English and French would have a much more difficult time in the North.
Yes, the others may have had guns, but based on the fact that in their first incursion Spain only sent 500 men... the Vikings would easily outnumber any colonist that attempt to attack them.
In my observation, the Norse are very good at inserting themselves into an already exsisting government structure and often does well where they're the minority. They assimilate and unite the different cultures as they have no preconception of each cultures. The Ruriks united various Slavic Tribes, the Normans assimilating to the French customs and assimilate the different groups of Southern Italy. They inserted themselves into the Byzantine Nobility and go on Crusading and establish Crusader States.
Ever wondered who the 7ft skeletons of northeastern usa's mounds were? i'm not too far off 7 ft myself so a fish eating viking could easily have reached that stature
Yeah, I think the Viking colony would just end up turning into some kind of Native American Kyivan Rus. Laws would vaguely be Norse with Native flavor but culturally and linguistically it would be American.
@@derekblevins2823man, that’s WEIRD to think about! I’d be really interested in the specifics of what this hypothetical language would be like; how many features from old Norse it would have, what Native American language it’d be primarily based on, how LONG the language has been in contact with other ones and those effects on it, the works! And then they get destroyed by the French when/if they take Quebec 😂😅
Since the Norse were literate, knew "the secret of steel" and in many ways equal or superior in technology to their Europeans of the day, I say it would be a hard time to beat them if they really managed to make a foothold and grow in population. No, the Norse wouldn't have had firearms, but just like the Japanese, it would take them a few years to replicate and even improve.
The Japanese had firearms before the Portugese arrived, they bought them from China. Bought Chinese firearms weren't very good, especially given that China and Japan are historical rivals/enemies.
@@the11382 Maybe they had rockets, grenades and rudimentary cannons, because that's what the Chinese had. Not muskets, which came with the Portuguese. But even so, you're proving my point. The Portuguese didn't colonize Japan, and no one else did either.
A couple of days ago I started an EU4 campaign just like this. Its 1444 and the last group of Norse Pagan warriors decide to flee Christian Europe and roll the dice on this new land they have heard about from Legend. They started with 1 territory and a small population. One day they will bring Odin back to the Land of Ice and Snow...
Except it was the opposite. It was Christians Vikings that made it much more inland US than any other. It would have been amazing seeing the Spanish coming to the Americas and seeing Virgin Mary statues with rune stone carvings on them
The mayflower land in America: Wonderful a new land- *Sounds of barbaric shouting are heard coming from the distance* Settlers: Why do I hear boss music.
This land is blessed to us by Odin may be more likely, would more certainly be used to disregard the Christian faith and the foundation of the cultural shift
I think the European conquest would’ve been harder and more natives would’ve survived, mostly because disease would have spread enough for a few hundred years that the remaining natives would’ve built up a immunity to it and build up their numbers again, as well as Viking weapons would’ve inevitably falling in the hands of some native tribes and would’ve spread
There are 492 years between Leif Erikson's discovery of Vinland and Columbus discovering the West Indies. In contrast, Jamestown was only settled 413 years ago. It was noticeable that once established English settlements in America would double in population every generation due to the plentiful farmland for new families even if immigration was subtracted. So any viable settlement would be an expanding settlement with a growing population spreading exponentially across America. Once they have a population big enough for full-sized armies no native resistance would stand a chance and Norse farms would spread across all of North America by the time of Columbus. Viking longboats would already be raiding the Aztecs and Caribbean for gold and conquest. Vinlanders may continue trading with the old world bringing back technology so they might already have Viking tall ships.
Lakota probably would’ve gotten a hold of them centuries before they do in our timeline. If not Lakota another Great Plains tribe would’ve turned into a mongol type raiders and empire.
The Great Plains tribes riding Icelandic horses is an interesting picture. The early adoption of horses amongst the native American tribes, would most likely be one of the most important change in such a timeline.
@@themoreyouknow7418 Yep, I'd like to think that constant raids would've been held on the Visigothic Kingdom. Maybe even with time, Christain motive to prevent Muslim expansion in Iberia, and to spread Christianity in North Africa would've led to a large-scale Crusade, similar to that of the Barbary Crusade.
Cool. I live in Newfoundland and I've always wondered about this. Mostly I like the idea of earlier settlement efforts working the land for an extra 500+ years so we could grow more of our own food.
I could see tribes like the cree and the Iroquois enduring raids from the Norse and having some of their people sold at slave market. That means there could be a decent number of natives who also speak Old Norse. This might lead to the rise of what the Spanish called the mestizo population essentially the people children of indigenous and European parents
There are many compelling reasons for why he was hung. Although the negative impacts on the Métis people were unfortunate. A Canada in which the conflicts were avoided, and a compromise was made between the English and Métis would be an interesting one indeed. Too niche for a scenario though.
@@DameOfDiamonds highly unlikely. In our time line diseases are what mainly wiped out indigenous populations. This was because of constant, massed contact with settlers. If the Norse stayed, they would have served to inoculate the tribes near them over the ensuing centuries to the point where settlers do come en Masse from Europe, the native populations, though still technologically inferior, would not die off in such large numbers from disease
We could arguably see something similar to the Kievan Rus develop in the Missisipi basin, with ultimate trading targets in the more developed cultures of Mesoamerica in place of the Byzantines and the Arabs. Arguably the influence of a consistent Norse colony would spread well beyond their would be meager territory in the north east. The advance of metal working technology, horses and European germs into the heartland of North America - again, through the easily navigable Missisipi - would transform the local people. By the time Cortes reaches Mesoamerica, it's societies would be largely innoculated from European diseases, would arguably have metal weapons and even cavalry, presenting a much tougher nut for the Spanish to crack. How that would turn out - and in the case of Cortes failing, would Pizzaro even attempt the conquest of the Inca - is certainly a fascinating topic of discussion.
Someone did a documentary on whether or not the Vikings reached Minnesota. They could not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Vikings made it to MN, but they did discover that an expedition left Iceland at a time that matches the date on the Kensington Runestone. While there is controversy over the authenticity of the Runestone, there are 2 interesting facts about it. The expedition from Iceland was similar in size to the group mentioned on the stone. The other thing was that the runes on the stone had some unique runes which matched runes used by the Icelandic court during that time. It is not enough to "prove" that the Vikings made it to MN, but it does keep open the idea that they could have.
I wonder what the modern world would look like if the Vikings stayed in America. Would it be more advanced? Less? Better than the states we know today?
less advanced for sure, both the north america and europe as well, or maybe, because north america is not really worth the effort, south america becomes invaded and developed by europeans, and the usa and canada shifts to south america. :D
@@doublesalopetoimcre you gotta wonder, how would history change if the Vikings stayed in North America? I can see the native population being much bigger in the modern day, through peace deals with Vikings and natives. I could see the U.S being much more ergonomic, with less emphasis in individualism and more in the general community. The U.S being a super power wouldn't exist, it probably wouldn't even be called the U.S. Slavery wouldn't have happens to the extent it was in our history.
What if the Kingdom of Soissons survived? Basically the Soissons was a rump state and it was disconnected from the rest of the Western Roman Empire. Eventually when Western Rome fell, the Soissons held out. It would be interesting to see if they actually survived more than they did.
Consider also that the Norse would have brought several of the plagues that decimated the Americas centuries later in the real timeline. So though they might face initial difficulties, as smallpox and other diseases ravaged the local populations, the Norse would benefit by less competition.
Probably the private companies would have existed by the 90s and we might have more than one ISS, with current plans on science bases on the moon, with Mars colonization being the new dream that the experimental bases are being developed for in the long term
Just thought of an interesting idea that the St Lawrence river would be name the Heimdall river as Heimdall was the protector and keeper of the rainbow bridge that connected the nine realms and the St Lawrence river connects to the Great Lakes I think it fits pretty well.
Interestingly, despite impact of Norse settling being minor, it's believed to have initiated the Anishinaabe Migration, created many tribes that exist today
The most interesting part of this to me is how the early introduction of domesticated animals to the americas as a result of this would effect the native americans
I'm new to your channel and I don't know if you return to these scenarios, but I really hope you come back to this one. I binged watched a lot of these, and I find this one to be the most interesting idea, I think it would be interesting to see how you would have things progress from the end of this on.
States resulting from intermixing between Natives and Norse would have also existed. Not to mention, through interactions with the Norse, some Natives night have acquired knowledge about metallurgy, domesticated animals and some resistance to diseases, which would allow them to expand south.
New England would’ve been an entirely different ballgame if there were a bordering nation of Vikings thumbing around to the north. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
For the next part of this growing series. What if the Norse did integrate their communities with the natives? (The starts of the republic of Vinland). And then European colonial efforts had to come in conflict with an organized Vinland and a native population that had, had their immune systems introduced to the European biomes before.
I think cultural melding would be way more likely in this version since the polyteistic religion would easier allow for it. Also the lacking influx of new settlers would probably force it upon the Norse at some point.
There is a possibility that these Vikings and natives would see their mutual interest in combine defense against the incoming invaders the old saying they hang together or hang separately.
Marcos Toledo also combine the fact that Iron and horses brought by the Norse settlers would’ve been spread to the other native tribes. Also the fact that the Vikings and the Natives would’ve intermixed. A nightmare for the European settlers using muskets.
Nope in almost e vry encounter with the siberians it would always end in bloodshed, for them too get along is impossible instead the vikings would have probably wipes the Siberians off the face of the earth
Was a little sad when you mentioned the interactions with other cultures there was no mention of the norse interactions with the sami people, as the sami and natives in north america do have a fair few similarities in terms of both having shamanism and some other things. Though the main positive interaction between the sami and the norse was the sami building them boats so maybe it isn't really important
Interesting as always, with the Norse in North America, I don't feel like the Canadians of this timeline will be nice to you and be sorry for everything, instead they'll become some rude people who keep insulting you. Unless America goes manifest destiny and we get Viking Reservations and mighty American Canada
Frankly, I think something like this would have happened except for, The Little Ice Age in which, the Greenland colony perished and the Iceland colony barely survived. Absent the The Little Ice Age caused by the corresponding Grand Solar Minimum, your scenario or something similar probably would have happened. Humans have always been subject to the weather derived from what the Sun does. And, lest any mistake, that subjectivity HAS NOT changed.
the little ice age was likely caused by volcanic activity, at least in the region of newfoundland, greenland, iceland and scotland that was the main driver
I'm working on a similar alternate history theory myself. And I personally think the Norse Americans would also expand abit south along the coasts at least. From Vinland downwards is alot of prime agricultural type of land. Which the Norse would want to establish a breadbasket region as soon as they could. Especially given that trade would be restricted for abit, since they'd have to recover from their long voyage. But once that happens they'd need a efficient supply of food in order to fuel their growth and societal developments, such as fortifications and the like.
What if Harold Godwinson somehow defeated the Norman invasion and what would the future of England would look like after the events of 2 invasions on the isle?
Social rights as developed under the New Deal would have been enshrined as new Constitutional Amendments. That was his intention. The neocons would have been centrists, not neoconservatives.
I think the horse and iron weapons would've spread to the plains people and beyond by the time Europe came back. A steppe like culture might emerge there. Beyond, you could imagine a scenario where the Aztecs had rapidly grown in power in the decades just prior to Spanish contact as the horse made its way through the empire. Instead of catching these civilizations on the decline they would've found an increasingly and newly united people in a technological revolution. And poised to better take advantage of new technology the Europeans would be bringing.
@@DameOfDiamonds you really think the vikings could have killed an entire continent of people? And bear in mind that in our timeline 90 percent of the natives were dead becouse of our deseases when we came across new land, so imagine how populated it must be without smallpox. And the vikings and native americans, militarily, and with weapons tech, were much more on par with the vikings back then, then the natives were to the spanish in the 16th century. The lack of technological advancement on the European part also makes it harder to colonise, so the natives would have more time to copy the technology and political systems (westernise) then in our timeline.
You missed a detail. After centuries of European diseases sweeping through the Americas like wildfire, the native tribes and empires would develop immunities to many of them, making later colonization take on a very different charecter. For one thing, healthier natives post contact means less need for Spain and Portugal to bring in African slaves. Caribbean ethnic and cultural history takes on a MUCH different trajectory just due to that. Fewer natives dieing of smallpox also means a higher Indian to White ratio in the western hemisphere.
Mostly independent? The Icelandic Commonwealth was fully independent as was Greenland. Greenland wouldn't become part of Norway until 1261 and Iceland 1262 (The east of Iceland 1264)
I think in this timeline the natives would’ve had many more chances against the later colonists, as the Viking would’ve brought over diseases from the old world and they would’ve spread across the americas centuries before the later colonists ever got there, so they would’ve had time to repopulate after the initial dying, allowing for greater resistance to European invasion. Once the natives and Vikings got their hands on firearms, it would become much more difficult for Europeans to colonize inland, and lead to much stronger native control over their lands.
I didn't know about Helluland and Markland. I'm surprised you didn't mention the stone off an island in Martha's Vineyard that's supposedly carved by Leif Eriksson in 1001. Also Women were warriors in the Viking culture and were equal members of society. Also Iceland was COMPLETELY UNINHABITED when the Vikings arrived!!! That as well as it's climate made it the perfect place to settle
I hear you, it does seem super likely that like their cousins that will show up in 4-500 years, they'll be less then friendly with the locals but they don't have the same advantages as they would. For one thing, numbers will be a major concern as a couple thousand sounds like alot, and it is, but most of those people would be needed to run farms, repair homes, build ships and fish. They won't be able to afford costly battles like the Natives or the Christians as it's not like they can wait for more to show up, at least past a certain point when everyone back home is already been converted. Then, there is the issue of weapons as their stuff will certainly be superior to the Native Americans would field, but an iron axe is no spear and a sword ain't no cannon. Basically, I can totally see there be skirmishes here and there, but nothing major. More importantly, they'll most likely trade(however forcefully) with the natives, and in time, thanks to increased trade and communication, they might welcome Native Americans into their settlements and cities, perhaps remembering their own misfortune back home, they create a generally accepting society where ones beliefs are respected and build up positive ties with neighboring tribes. Of course, the more likely alternative is that they respect Native practices, but hold their own in higher regard. Such a closeness, born really out of necessity, would mean that in a couple hundred years, 'white' is a minority as most people would have had a Native American person or two somewhere in their ancestry, with intermarriage between Vikings and Natives that perhaps live and work in their towns and cities being common. So most of the society being mixed or as my culture would call them, coloured. Because these are sea-faring people, they'll do like they did in Europe and sail down the American east coast, and up any rivers they find, setting up trade posts where they can dock, rest and trade with locals. This would also expose a greater amount of Native people to European diseases, which while dangerous and would no doubt kill thousands, would also give them immunity to some of the diseases that the rest of Europe would bring, and time for populations to recover at least in some aspects from said outbreaks. It also means that might end up as far south as Florida, the Caribbean and even Mesoamerica, even not for permanent settlements but for trade purposes, which also means another source of information on Mesoamerican civilizations from a very different view then to Spanish, which is always a plus as unlike the Spanish, these Viking descendants aren't liable to burn everything because 'Pagan'. Once those other Europeans arrive...oh boy, Native tribes would be extremely wary if not hostile to Christian missionaries, having heard the stories, exaggerated as they would most definitely be, of how they prosecuted the Vikings and their culture was targeted, destroyed and banned with its followers made second class peoples in their own lands, forced to convert under pain of penalty. With the Viking descendants themselves, they'll get one look of anyone wearing a cross and draw swords. As you say, early efforts by Europe to claim their lands would be extremely confrontational as you can't tell me that they'll just accept that these people don't worship the same God, and aren't willing to convert. Especially when these 'Godless Pagans' happen to be sitting on some of the best lands in North America, with access to plenty of natural riches from previous metals to exotic animal hides. I would call it a Crusade, but to be honest, Europe might have been Christian at this point, but they were far too fractioned to really unite, even against a common enemy as they'll always be the question of who gets what, and how much. That was long as heck, but it's one of my favorite alternative timelines, hope you have a nice day.
We'll have another upload next Wednesday at 2:30pm EST as always!
Pick up a copy of our novel: www.amazon.com/Am-Uncle-Sam-Dean-Mosley-ebook/dp/B07WNG95QH
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What if Ross Perrot won the 1992 election
What if Gary Johnson won the 2016 election
What if the Britsh Seized Alaska from Russia
Have considered a Ross Pierrot scenario, as well as some other alternate president timelines, but those tend to be left on the shelf for a long while.
you should really make a part two for this video, because I see potential for a part 2. It would be a waste if this video is left behind.
Monsieur Z You should do a video explaining the entire lore of Code Geass and what if the Holy Britannian Empire under either Charles’ or Lelouch’s reign and if they invaded our modern United States under Trump’s presidency and who would win in a war
What if the Scandinavian peoples successfully resisted Christianity.
Leif Erikson Day would be one of our national holidays.
Zion Molina it currently isn’t?
Zion Molina hinga dinga durgen
God, could you imagine Spongebob coming up in a modern Scandinavian-American society? How weird would that shit be?
I agree with that. I'd predict that the North American Norse would eventually expand westward along the St. Lawrence river and the great lakes. While northern French Québec and British Massachusetts bay colonies would be wiped out by NAN raiders, southern colonies such as Virginia and Carolina for the British and Louisiana for the French would be possible. The Dutch New Holland colony may fair better as NAN neighbors. So with this time line no one celebrates those hypocritical Puritans called the Pilgrims with Thanksgiving.
I'd even go as far as saying that the border between either New Holland and New England (Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, Georgia, and maybe Delaware) would be the Mason Dixon line, and the Ohio river. While the French Louisiana and New England border would be the Mississippi river initially, or at least until the inevitable French and Indian war of 1754-1763. With a larger colonial presence in the new world, the British would have still won that war, and the colonies may not have revolted, as the southern colonies had more loyalists than the north to begin with. The only reason that the Continentals won the Revolution was because of strategic blunders in the south by Cornwallis and Ferguson. By sending "don't get involved, or we'll burn you out" letters to the Scots-Irish settlers of western North Carolina they alienated potential supporters, and created determined enemies instead.
no it wouldnt u would be english not american america would have people of only swedish norweigen danish and icelandic decent
To summarize the European colonist's first contact with the American Vikings:
OH SHIT!! NOT YOU AGAIN!!!!
"Round two?" -Vikings, meeting the Europeans in America.
To be perfectly honest and with history the Vikings weren't even the first. Phoenicians was the first, followed by Roman Christians. Then Irish monks fleeing Vikings. Then Vikings. Then Chinese. The Welsh lost at see. Then Azore fishermen, (the dried fish Columbus bought on the Azore Islands was from Florida). Then Columbus. Then Mali empire soldiers. Yes there is evidence to all of this. Even a cave in Brazil has writing in Phoenician. Says they was mining gems there for seven years but tensions with the locals forced them to abandon it.
@@leaaronsanchez the "raft of serpents" described as the vessel of Quetzalcoatl, is very likely a european style ship with an animal headed bough.
@@fredriks5090 remains of a Roman cargo ship was found in north Carolina. Christian items was found in the remain. Dates back to 40 A.D.
America's Stonehenge was made by Phoenicians, Phoenician writing was seen everywhere before its removal in 1910.
Cave in Brazil also confirms Phoenicians had 3 mining settlements with the longest lasting 7 years. Remains of a small settlement located 70 miles north of American Stonehenge. 2 bodies found there with a Rosary at their waist confirms they were monks, DNA test shows from Ireland. The only Viking settlements was in Canada. Reports say it was started by Leif Erikson's sister. Old history from Canadian tribes confirms this well. They drove them off because they thought they was try to poison them. Native Americans are mostly lactose intolerant.
@@leaaronsanchez (tin hat go brrrr unless u cite source)
So wait... You’re telling me, that this alternate history gives us Vikings with guns? I think we were born in the wrong world.
Or the right one depending on how you look at it lol
@@johnathankorkie4984 the way I look at it I am born in the wrong one the boring one
You’re so funny and silly😐😐
I want Vikings with muskets!
@ligma nutz Vikings with F-22 Raptors!
I feel colonialism would also slow greatly, over four centuries-agricultural and metalworking techniques from the Norse making their way into native hands is inevitable. North American tribes would likely be similar to that of the Germanic tribes, resistant to diseases, farming and perhaps even utilising horses brought over by the Norse. A nightmare for France and Britain for sure.
Nope i believe the vikings would've killed off the natives because whenever the vikings came into contact with the siberians they would fight each other
Dixie Proud anglo American
The Norse historically did trade with Native Americans, mainly furs and game but it happened
Dixie Proud anglo American the story of the a few ships that sailed to shore in Vinland was that they were attacked by the native tribes, they were never able to set up a settlement before they were wiped out or forced to return to their ships
@pokezee king-wolf because they were severely outnumbered and lacked resources, with more people and food they would have slaughtered the natives
@pokezee king-wolf yes they were *outnumbered*
Just the thought of a viking Florida man sounds like the most intimidating thing to ever exist
Fjordia Man is real.
@@MonsieurDean oh no not even Thor can kill him
A Viking armed with a battle axe, and high on bath salts, screaming at 2am.
Well well well what do we have here?
Put him in an f22 and you have the most powerful entity on earth
I think the later colonists would have one major advantage over the Norse colony...gunpowder. Even though firearms were primitive in 1492, they would gradually improve over the coming centuries. That would make them a game-changer in this Euro-Norse War.
Also, I think the Viking colony might have inadvertently made it harder for the later Europeans to colonize elsewhere. The Vikings would bring with them European diseases much earlier than in OTL. That might give the natives a chance to build up an immunity to them as well as allowing them a few centuries to repopulate after the initial outbreak. Thus, the Spanish and Portuguese would have a much harder time conquering South America and the English and French would have a much more difficult time in the North.
Gunpowder was not so much advantage, norse could still learned using it. It is not a rocket science.
@@Motofanable Guns are so easy to make It wouldn't surprise me if the norsemen picked up the technology and fought back with equal arms
Yes, the others may have had guns, but based on the fact that in their first incursion Spain only sent 500 men... the Vikings would easily outnumber any colonist that attempt to attack them.
Vikings would have killed the natives
@@isaacbatz4673 Even then guns weren't even the main weapons of the conquistadors...
Me: "oh, this video seems cool. ima watch it"
Mike Bloomberg: *Allow me to introduce myself*
I got an ad for Saudi Arabia
In my observation, the Norse are very good at inserting themselves into an already exsisting government structure and often does well where they're the minority. They assimilate and unite the different cultures as they have no preconception of each cultures. The Ruriks united various Slavic Tribes, the Normans assimilating to the French customs and assimilate the different groups of Southern Italy. They inserted themselves into the Byzantine Nobility and go on Crusading and establish Crusader States.
Ever wondered who the 7ft skeletons of northeastern usa's mounds were? i'm not too far off 7 ft myself so a fish eating viking could easily have reached that stature
Yeah, I think the Viking colony would just end up turning into some kind of Native American Kyivan Rus. Laws would vaguely be Norse with Native flavor but culturally and linguistically it would be American.
@@derekblevins2823man, that’s WEIRD to think about! I’d be really interested in the specifics of what this hypothetical language would be like; how many features from old Norse it would have, what Native American language it’d be primarily based on, how LONG the language has been in contact with other ones and those effects on it, the works!
And then they get destroyed by the French when/if they take Quebec 😂😅
Since the Norse were literate, knew "the secret of steel" and in many ways equal or superior in technology to their Europeans of the day, I say it would be a hard time to beat them if they really managed to make a foothold and grow in population. No, the Norse wouldn't have had firearms, but just like the Japanese, it would take them a few years to replicate and even improve.
The Japanese had firearms before the Portugese arrived, they bought them from China. Bought Chinese firearms weren't very good, especially given that China and Japan are historical rivals/enemies.
@@the11382 Maybe they had rockets, grenades and rudimentary cannons, because that's what the Chinese had. Not muskets, which came with the Portuguese. But even so, you're proving my point. The Portuguese didn't colonize Japan, and no one else did either.
Long Live Vinland
(When you're watching Monsieur Z videos and a new one comes out "5 minutes ago.")
Renegade rename Newfoundland to Vinland?
Why does no one ever remember the fall of stürmfjord when the skraeling massacred the oh so feared viking who eventually got chased out of greenland
European Settlers: arrive on North America
Viking Americans: Who the hell are you guys?
European Settlers: How the hell did you guys not die yet?
Most realistic scenario
Person: hello Viking
Viking: where is your beard and where is your axe!
ArmourAll Viking: Restore your car, restore your pride.
Nonono
I am ashamed by the fact that I do not have a beard, i dishonour my ancestors
A couple of days ago I started an EU4 campaign just like this. Its 1444 and the last group of Norse Pagan warriors decide to flee Christian Europe and roll the dice on this new land they have heard about from Legend. They started with 1 territory and a small population. One day they will bring Odin back to the Land of Ice and Snow...
Good
More like Europe brings Protestant Christianity and Christianity wins.
How’d it go?
try the Elysia mod
Except it was the opposite. It was Christians Vikings that made it much more inland US than any other. It would have been amazing seeing the Spanish coming to the Americas and seeing Virgin Mary statues with rune stone carvings on them
The mayflower land in America: Wonderful a new land-
*Sounds of barbaric shouting are heard coming from the distance*
Settlers: Why do I hear boss music.
Lol I can imagine them all hearing a giant thundering singing of "My Mother Told Me" coming from the forests.
Barbaric shouting and guns being loaded because vikings with guns
@@KegaB3 and their native tribal partners ride in on horse back with iron and steel bows and arrows
The pledge of allegiance on this timeline: “...one nation under ODÍN…”
The pledge of allegiance originally did not have the under "god" phrase, it was added in the 19-20th century.
*Allfather Odin
(Maybe a “wise” at the end)
This land is blessed to us by Odin may be more likely, would more certainly be used to disregard the Christian faith and the foundation of the cultural shift
Nope, Christianity is what would succeed not the pagans.
@@slibertas1996 Odin is as real as Jesus.
I think the European conquest would’ve been harder and more natives would’ve survived, mostly because disease would have spread enough for a few hundred years that the remaining natives would’ve built up a immunity to it and build up their numbers again, as well as Viking weapons would’ve inevitably falling in the hands of some native tribes and would’ve spread
Always love learning about my Ancestors
Same.
Är själv en mix av svensk, dansk, norsk, och ashkenazi.
Hinga dinga durgen
Gotta love your roots!! Hail Odin!!
@@jollygreenjeff2640 "Is self a (Swedish grammar, english: I am a...) mix of swedish, danish, norwegian, and ashkenazi (North European Jew.).
The Brony Wiking hur mycket procent är du svensk, dansk, norsk och ashkenazi?
There are 492 years between Leif Erikson's discovery of Vinland and Columbus discovering the West Indies. In contrast, Jamestown was only settled 413 years ago. It was noticeable that once established English settlements in America would double in population every generation due to the plentiful farmland for new families even if immigration was subtracted. So any viable settlement would be an expanding settlement with a growing population spreading exponentially across America. Once they have a population big enough for full-sized armies no native resistance would stand a chance and Norse farms would spread across all of North America by the time of Columbus. Viking longboats would already be raiding the Aztecs and Caribbean for gold and conquest. Vinlanders may continue trading with the old world bringing back technology so they might already have Viking tall ships.
Cool
But the real question is what about the horses they theoretically brought over? and whats that effect on the surrounding cultures
Lakota probably would’ve gotten a hold of them centuries before they do in our timeline. If not Lakota another Great Plains tribe would’ve turned into a mongol type raiders and empire.
The Great Plains tribes riding Icelandic horses is an interesting picture. The early adoption of horses amongst the native American tribes, would most likely be one of the most important change in such a timeline.
The natives used to hunt and eat horses I believe, it's part of the reason American horses went extinct
What if Visogothic Kingdom never fell to the moors?
George Frideric Händel what if the vandal kingdom never fell
Possibly instead of reconquesta, it’d instead being holding a “wall against the moors” type of thing.
@@themoreyouknow7418 Yep, I'd like to think that constant raids would've been held on the Visigothic Kingdom. Maybe even with time, Christain motive to prevent Muslim expansion in Iberia, and to spread Christianity in North Africa would've led to a large-scale Crusade, similar to that of the Barbary Crusade.
Something similar to the Byzantine Empire but in the West and without the orthodoxe church
@@Quincius hopefully it would fail 🙏
Cool. I live in Newfoundland and I've always wondered about this. Mostly I like the idea of earlier settlement efforts working the land for an extra 500+ years so we could grow more of our own food.
That would have actually been kinda cool.
Not kinda,it would have been the meaning of cool.
It would have been...Metal.
Wait so the norse had a 2nd ammendment type tradition?
In a way, yeah.
The Norse are apart of the NRA
@@gamerswemeetagain2613 Norse Republics of America
The norse typically carried a customized knife on them at all times. I believe in one of the sagas someone is recognized because of their knife
@@vulpura oh didn't even think of that. Nice
I could see tribes like the cree and the Iroquois enduring raids from the Norse and having some of their people sold at slave market. That means there could be a decent number of natives who also speak Old Norse. This might lead to the rise of what the Spanish called the mestizo population essentially the people children of indigenous and European parents
Like the Métis in Canada, but Norse. Hopefully things would go better for them then they did for Louis Riel.
There are many compelling reasons for why he was hung. Although the negative impacts on the Métis people were unfortunate. A Canada in which the conflicts were avoided, and a compromise was made between the English and Métis would be an interesting one indeed. Too niche for a scenario though.
Nope i believe if the vikings stayed in america, the natives would have been killed off
@@DameOfDiamonds highly unlikely. In our time line diseases are what mainly wiped out indigenous populations. This was because of constant, massed contact with settlers. If the Norse stayed, they would have served to inoculate the tribes near them over the ensuing centuries to the point where settlers do come en Masse from Europe, the native populations, though still technologically inferior, would not die off in such large numbers from disease
Hugin Why? A Norse-Native race would be badass.
We could arguably see something similar to the Kievan Rus develop in the Missisipi basin, with ultimate trading targets in the more developed cultures of Mesoamerica in place of the Byzantines and the Arabs.
Arguably the influence of a consistent Norse colony would spread well beyond their would be meager territory in the north east. The advance of metal working technology, horses and European germs into the heartland of North America - again, through the easily navigable Missisipi - would transform the local people. By the time Cortes reaches Mesoamerica, it's societies would be largely innoculated from European diseases, would arguably have metal weapons and even cavalry, presenting a much tougher nut for the Spanish to crack. How that would turn out - and in the case of Cortes failing, would Pizzaro even attempt the conquest of the Inca - is certainly a fascinating topic of discussion.
Imagine the Vikings actually getting to Minnesota
Why am i thinking about pokemon after reading this
Someone did a documentary on whether or not the Vikings reached Minnesota. They could not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Vikings made it to MN, but they did discover that an expedition left Iceland at a time that matches the date on the Kensington Runestone. While there is controversy over the authenticity of the Runestone, there are 2 interesting facts about it. The expedition from Iceland was similar in size to the group mentioned on the stone. The other thing was that the runes on the stone had some unique runes which matched runes used by the Icelandic court during that time. It is not enough to "prove" that the Vikings made it to MN, but it does keep open the idea that they could have.
@@paulwoida8249 that be dope if their was some legitimacy behind the nfl team. Though the Scandinavian routes do run deep in Minnesota
They would have won 🏆 something.
Yo we meet again
Imagine the British coming only to meet the Vikings again
What if The Man in the High Castle was a reality?
You inspired me to become a alternate history fanatic btw
I'm very glad I was able to introduce you to a subject you enjoy. :)
This is my favorite EU4 custom faction to play. The Vinlandian Empire
American Vikings would be interesting. For them to have a Viking/European heritage would be something.
That moment when Vikings ARE European.
@@poplops1 No he means the Americans. He thinks it would be interesting for Americans to have Viking heritage
@@datukaruma1563 And a quasi-Viking civilisation in the Americas. That would be pretty cool.
I could also imagine a scenario where Erik the Heathen decides to pull stakes and head to the west rather than fight a losing war at home.
As always it ends right before the most interesting part. :(
This video could really use a part two if you ask me:)
I wonder what the modern world would look like if the Vikings stayed in America.
Would it be more advanced? Less? Better than the states we know today?
less advanced for sure, both the north america and europe as well, or maybe, because north america is not really worth the effort, south america becomes invaded and developed by europeans, and the usa and canada shifts to south america. :D
@@doublesalopetoimcre you gotta wonder, how would history change if the Vikings stayed in North America?
I can see the native population being much bigger in the modern day, through peace deals with Vikings and natives.
I could see the U.S being much more ergonomic, with less emphasis in individualism and more in the general community.
The U.S being a super power wouldn't exist, it probably wouldn't even be called the U.S.
Slavery wouldn't have happens to the extent it was in our history.
What if the CCP fell during a Korean War where the US wins (no stalemate)?
@Liam Nathan Abla
Communism = funni
It's been two years and I still wish this had a part 2.
What if the Kingdom of Soissons survived? Basically the Soissons was a rump state and it was disconnected from the rest of the Western Roman Empire. Eventually when Western Rome fell, the Soissons held out. It would be interesting to see if they actually survived more than they did.
Consider also that the Norse would have brought several of the plagues that decimated the Americas centuries later in the real timeline. So though they might face initial difficulties, as smallpox and other diseases ravaged the local populations, the Norse would benefit by less competition.
Yes, but over time the natives would somewhat recover.
@@the11382 and when the rest of Europe got in on the game, the survivors would have recuperated their losses and had some immunity
@@adamskeans2515 Any chance the Vikings would have mixed with the natives, creating an "Indo-Norse" people?
Not sure if you'll see this, but I have a proposal:
What if the US never left the Moon(as in, they didn't stop sending people to the Moon after 1972)?
Probably the private companies would have existed by the 90s and we might have more than one ISS, with current plans on science bases on the moon, with Mars colonization being the new dream that the experimental bases are being developed for in the long term
We probably did continue to send people to the moon. They just made it a black project.
@@michaelfoulkes9502 Interesting theory. Wouldn't be too surprised if that were the case though.
What if the japan decided to colonize America after they got into contact with Portugal and the Netherlands.
Only after the Sengoku period, Japan was too fractured.
I kinda wish this was the true History, who else wish so ?
What if Germany kept its Pacific protectorates
You're literally in the comment section of most videos I've watched! You're literally everywhere!
Kim Jong-un is everywhere.
@@Retravox you telling me the great leader of best and true korea cant be everywhere at once?
Would be only possible, if Germany won WW1
Just thought of an interesting idea that the St Lawrence river would be name the Heimdall river as Heimdall was the protector and keeper of the rainbow bridge that connected the nine realms and the St Lawrence river connects to the Great Lakes I think it fits pretty well.
"Ah shit here we go again" - a european explorer seeing a viking in america probably
This could do with a part 2. I would like to know if our Skyrim would retake Scandinavia?
Interestingly, despite impact of Norse settling being minor, it's believed to have initiated the Anishinaabe Migration, created many tribes that exist today
Will you be making a part two for this scenario?
What if Tecumseh's resistance succeeded?
We want a part 2 of this, for sure
To answer what if vikings stayed in America: video starts at 12:57
Was just thinking about Vinland today so i was
Even your comment is Irish.
The greatest effect would be the illness inflicted on the Mayas and Aztecs by the Vikings, perhaps preparing them to an European invasion.
The most interesting part of this to me is how the early introduction of domesticated animals to the americas as a result of this would effect the native americans
*captures Chicago five times
As a 22nd Generation NorseMan I am proud of my Heritage we made it to the new world.
I cannot believe you don’t even have 100k subscribers. All of your content is so professional and amazing. Keep up the good work
I'm new to your channel and I don't know if you return to these scenarios, but I really hope you come back to this one. I binged watched a lot of these, and I find this one to be the most interesting idea, I think it would be interesting to see how you would have things progress from the end of this on.
States resulting from intermixing between Natives and Norse would have also existed. Not to mention, through interactions with the Norse, some Natives night have acquired knowledge about metallurgy, domesticated animals and some resistance to diseases, which would allow them to expand south.
Notification Squad anyone?
North America would definitely have history of epic warriors with swords.
For April Fool's please make What if Joshua Norton became emperor of the USA, it is time for the US to show the UK who is the real empire.
What if Wilhelm let Leopold take the spanish throne in 1870 and was actually on time for the coronation
New England would’ve been an entirely different ballgame if there were a bordering nation of Vikings thumbing around to the north. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
For the next part of this growing series. What if the Norse did integrate their communities with the natives? (The starts of the republic of Vinland). And then European colonial efforts had to come in conflict with an organized Vinland and a native population that had, had their immune systems introduced to the European biomes before.
I think cultural melding would be way more likely in this version since the polyteistic religion would easier allow for it. Also the lacking influx of new settlers would probably force it upon the Norse at some point.
There is a possibility that these Vikings and natives would see their mutual interest in combine defense against the incoming invaders the old saying they hang together or hang separately.
Marcos Toledo also combine the fact that Iron and horses brought by the Norse settlers would’ve been spread to the other native tribes. Also the fact that the Vikings and the Natives would’ve intermixed. A nightmare for the European settlers using muskets.
Nope in almost e vry encounter with the siberians it would always end in bloodshed, for them too get along is impossible instead the vikings would have probably wipes the Siberians off the face of the earth
Was a little sad when you mentioned the interactions with other cultures there was no mention of the norse interactions with the sami people, as the sami and natives in north america do have a fair few similarities in terms of both having shamanism and some other things. Though the main positive interaction between the sami and the norse was the sami building them boats so maybe it isn't really important
Interesting as always, with the Norse in North America, I don't feel like the Canadians of this timeline will be nice to you and be sorry for everything, instead they'll become some rude people who keep insulting you.
Unless America goes manifest destiny and we get Viking Reservations and mighty American Canada
Frankly, I think something like this would have happened except for, The Little Ice Age in which, the Greenland colony perished and the Iceland colony barely survived. Absent the The Little Ice Age caused by the corresponding Grand Solar Minimum, your scenario or something similar probably would have happened. Humans have always been subject to the weather derived from what the Sun does. And, lest any mistake, that subjectivity HAS NOT changed.
the little ice age was likely caused by volcanic activity, at least in the region of newfoundland, greenland, iceland and scotland that was the main driver
I'm working on a similar alternate history theory myself. And I personally think the Norse Americans would also expand abit south along the coasts at least. From Vinland downwards is alot of prime agricultural type of land. Which the Norse would want to establish a breadbasket region as soon as they could. Especially given that trade would be restricted for abit, since they'd have to recover from their long voyage. But once that happens they'd need a efficient supply of food in order to fuel their growth and societal developments, such as fortifications and the like.
What if Monsieur Z did a playthrough of a Paradox game?
That will be epic
"Norse--americans"
I like that😊😊😊
What if the Norse kindoms never forgot about their expats, but continued trade routes with Norse America?
Honestly quite incredible
Part two??? Please this is so saucey I love it
What if Harold Godwinson
somehow defeated the Norman invasion and what would the future of England would look like after the events of 2 invasions on the isle?
What if Charlemagne was a pagan and never converted the Frank's to christianity?
bro i think you might mean clovis
What if FDR survived to serve his 4th term?
Social rights as developed under the New Deal would have been enshrined as new Constitutional Amendments. That was his intention. The neocons would have been centrists, not neoconservatives.
I think the horse and iron weapons would've spread to the plains people and beyond by the time Europe came back. A steppe like culture might emerge there. Beyond, you could imagine a scenario where the Aztecs had rapidly grown in power in the decades just prior to Spanish contact as the horse made its way through the empire. Instead of catching these civilizations on the decline they would've found an increasingly and newly united people in a technological revolution. And poised to better take advantage of new technology the Europeans would be bringing.
the Flag for this episode is nothing short of Genius!
I think the colonies would have an increased speed to their technological development due to a fear of invasion and a drive to counter said invasion
This would set the natives in a far better position further down the line.
Um no vikings would've killed them off
@@DameOfDiamonds you really think the vikings could have killed an entire continent of people? And bear in mind that in our timeline 90 percent of the natives were dead becouse of our deseases when we came across new land, so imagine how populated it must be without smallpox. And the vikings and native americans, militarily, and with weapons tech, were much more on par with the vikings back then, then the natives were to the spanish in the 16th century. The lack of technological advancement on the European part also makes it harder to colonise, so the natives would have more time to copy the technology and political systems (westernise) then in our timeline.
At 1:03, it's 'hazier' not 'more hazy.' Most 2-syllable adjectives take -er/-est in the comparative/superlative.
Vikings after seeing wendigos and skinwalkers: "HELL YEAH!!!"
You missed a detail. After centuries of European diseases sweeping through the Americas like wildfire, the native tribes and empires would develop immunities to many of them, making later colonization take on a very different charecter. For one thing, healthier natives post contact means less need for Spain and Portugal to bring in African slaves. Caribbean ethnic and cultural history takes on a MUCH different trajectory just due to that. Fewer natives dieing of smallpox also means a higher Indian to White ratio in the western hemisphere.
Mostly independent? The Icelandic Commonwealth was fully independent as was Greenland. Greenland wouldn't become part of Norway until 1261 and Iceland 1262 (The east of Iceland 1264)
North America? I think you mean... Norse America
European armies when vikings on moose come charging from the forest: "Time to abandon colony."
"king of the wood" by john maddox roberts is an excellent novel on the subject
I just finished Vinland Saga S1, so finding this video was perfect timing
I need to make Beyond Vinland. The ultimate Caribbean Viking and Island Management simulator.
Can you pls make a part 2 of this.
I think in this timeline the natives would’ve had many more chances against the later colonists, as the Viking would’ve brought over diseases from the old world and they would’ve spread across the americas centuries before the later colonists ever got there, so they would’ve had time to repopulate after the initial dying, allowing for greater resistance to European invasion. Once the natives and Vikings got their hands on firearms, it would become much more difficult for Europeans to colonize inland, and lead to much stronger native control over their lands.
Could you please make a sequal to this video, picking up where you left off here, to show what moght have happend in the longrun?
Yay! The Minnesota Runic Stone would be genuine then!
As long as they use the flag in thumbnail I'd be ok with it. That's a cool flag man.
Minnesota would become the most powerful state.
I didn't know about Helluland and Markland. I'm surprised you didn't mention the stone off an island in Martha's Vineyard that's supposedly carved by Leif Eriksson in 1001. Also Women were warriors in the Viking culture and were equal members of society. Also Iceland was COMPLETELY UNINHABITED when the Vikings arrived!!! That as well as it's climate made it the perfect place to settle
This would be a great historical fiction novel /movie.
I hear you, it does seem super likely that like their cousins that will show up in 4-500 years, they'll be less then friendly with the locals but they don't have the same advantages as they would. For one thing, numbers will be a major concern as a couple thousand sounds like alot, and it is, but most of those people would be needed to run farms, repair homes, build ships and fish.
They won't be able to afford costly battles like the Natives or the Christians as it's not like they can wait for more to show up, at least past a certain point when everyone back home is already been converted. Then, there is the issue of weapons as their stuff will certainly be superior to the Native Americans would field, but an iron axe is no spear and a sword ain't no cannon.
Basically, I can totally see there be skirmishes here and there, but nothing major. More importantly, they'll most likely trade(however forcefully) with the natives, and in time, thanks to increased trade and communication, they might welcome Native Americans into their settlements and cities, perhaps remembering their own misfortune back home, they create a generally accepting society where ones beliefs are respected and build up positive ties with neighboring tribes.
Of course, the more likely alternative is that they respect Native practices, but hold their own in higher regard. Such a closeness, born really out of necessity, would mean that in a couple hundred years, 'white' is a minority as most people would have had a Native American person or two somewhere in their ancestry, with intermarriage between Vikings and Natives that perhaps live and work in their towns and cities being common. So most of the society being mixed or as my culture would call them, coloured.
Because these are sea-faring people, they'll do like they did in Europe and sail down the American east coast, and up any rivers they find, setting up trade posts where they can dock, rest and trade with locals. This would also expose a greater amount of Native people to European diseases, which while dangerous and would no doubt kill thousands, would also give them immunity to some of the diseases that the rest of Europe would bring, and time for populations to recover at least in some aspects from said outbreaks. It also means that might end up as far south as Florida, the Caribbean and even Mesoamerica, even not for permanent settlements but for trade purposes, which also means another source of information on Mesoamerican civilizations from a very different view then to Spanish, which is always a plus as unlike the Spanish, these Viking descendants aren't liable to burn everything because 'Pagan'.
Once those other Europeans arrive...oh boy, Native tribes would be extremely wary if not hostile to Christian missionaries, having heard the stories, exaggerated as they would most definitely be, of how they prosecuted the Vikings and their culture was targeted, destroyed and banned with its followers made second class peoples in their own lands, forced to convert under pain of penalty. With the Viking descendants themselves, they'll get one look of anyone wearing a cross and draw swords.
As you say, early efforts by Europe to claim their lands would be extremely confrontational as you can't tell me that they'll just accept that these people don't worship the same God, and aren't willing to convert. Especially when these 'Godless Pagans' happen to be sitting on some of the best lands in North America, with access to plenty of natural riches from previous metals to exotic animal hides.
I would call it a Crusade, but to be honest, Europe might have been Christian at this point, but they were far too fractioned to really unite, even against a common enemy as they'll always be the question of who gets what, and how much.
That was long as heck, but it's one of my favorite alternative timelines, hope you have a nice day.