.30-06 requires a 24" barrel to get advertised velocities. If it's loaded with slower burning powder, it'll lose that much velocity. I have no doubt though that that stuff is still underpowered. Great Video sir.
:) I’ll see if I can find a 24”-26” but still have a feeling the 2,880 is a little outside the obtainable velocity of 30-06 and was likely done for a little extra safety. IE If it stops it at 2880 no surplus will hit that at real engagement.
@BuffRANGE If you hold the ALT key on your keyboard and type 0177, then let go of the alt key, it will give you the "±" character. Similarity, ALT+0176 will give you "°" (degrees). Just an odd bit of information that you can use in future videos.
I think even in ww2 that Ammo was rated for 2780 FPS the extra 100 FPS was just a worst case scenario and to account for temperature changes, longer barrels etc.
@@Enjoyer.762 Anything less than drum fed is NGMI. My turrets use only the most Stallman approved free and open source software( with redundancies and firewalls and complex codes for security of course). The Antichrist will never make me drink the corn syrup!
I wouldn't say it's "obsolete" per se, but perhaps a bit obsolescent of a round to use for modern day testing. As we have seen in recent videos, things like M993 would just shred through Level IV plates that M2AP wont be able to go through and I'd imagine you're more likely to run into that vs M2AP nowadays out in the field. As well as that new 6.8 Sig round that they claim will just defeat all sorts of armor, as per Army's claims.
JOE BIDEN IS A COMMUNIST PAID BY XI PING TO RUIN AMERICA ARREST JOE FOR TREASON. AND NANCY AND MITCH ARREST THEM ALL FOR TREASON AGAINST ALL AMARICANS.
The only reason M2 AP was spec'ed by the NIJ is the stuff was ubiquitous when they first drew up the specifications back in the '70s? '80s?; every high power shooter using a DCM Springfield or Garand out past 600yds was using the then-readily available surplus because the 172gr AP bullet was more accurate at range than the standard 150gr M2 Ball, as it more closely approximated the original 175gr M1 Ball load the Springfield was designed to use. [NB: M2 was originally developed because the Army determined they didn't have enough ranges of sufficient length to maintain range safety in practice w/ M1. Now you know...] Regrettably, the stuff has become very thin on the ground in the decades since then, and someone stole my one 30cal ammo can of it (that I'd bought in the '90s when it was still cheap) a decade ago...
Your comments in this video should be listened to very carefully as there is a lot of wisdom to be found in them...such as how storage can affect performance (this applies to reloading powder as well). I have found in a number of cases where even shipping conditions (temperature et al.) and loading conditions (especially, humidity) can affect not only velocities, but case capacities as well! Your mentioning of place of manufacture and testing of AP core alloys and hardness àre also spot on and critical in making performance comparisons. As always, keep up the excellent work!
I like this guy he makes niche stuff that’s very satisfying!!! I do want to see if it can handle multiple hits of the proper 2,880 (or whatever the standard is)???
Please do a video using your clay backface box, and test out the Botach Poron XRD impact sheets. They are 11x14, 9mm thick, and are said to reduce blunt force trauma by a great degree. Botach is selling them as backface trauma pads.
@@bowathand Depends on the model of the vest and how effective your trauma plate is. Some older ones won't do much to absorb the impact and you will leave with some bad bruises. But there are also reports of soldiers getting shot with the same caliber using more modern vests who have felt less of the impact. It's certainly physically possible to improve padding materials aswell.
@@bowathand Yeah, for this vest you will definitely leave out with broken ribs. But then again, the tendency of body armor has been to be improved over and over in recent years. It's crazy how fast armor has been evolving in the past of only 20 years! And it's still definitely better to be hit with this than without it either way. More chances of survival if you receive quick enough medical attention.
Hey did you see the Adept Armor Colossus plate? It's claims to be rated for both M993/M995 and Swiss P AP, at just 6.5lbs and 650 usd per plate. Utilizing a SiC-TiB2 strike face and dyneema backer.
If these rounds were "magnum" loaded for SHTF situation like intended I'm sure they'd perform as such but unless it's a throw away M1 or .3006 caliber it's best left untested. Yes .3006 for modern day may be antiquated but I still don't understand why .308 was favored over .3006 in sniping platforms before .300 mag step up (besides logistic needs)
Love the pricing on those plates, best budget plates imo, i want to build another carrier with RMA, but what plates would u recommend for 1 teir above LAPG price wise
It's got the length of like a 180gr bullet, with a fairly long bearing surface. I'm not sure if they're loaded to max pressure or not. I'm sure one could get close with a 24" barrel ?
Man it's been a long time since I watched one of your video's. It's been a long time since FN 5.7 rounds and such... I got a bunch of 60's era 30-06 M2. I always wonder what they would go good with if pulled and I went with a more modern round. Still love my grand pa Springfield 30-06, but most hunting here is in the short to mid range so I never use it.
Asking "is 30-06 M2 AP obsolete [for testing level IV]?" is like asking if gasoline is obsolete for testing fuel economy. Maybe some day engines will be so efficient that we need to measure efficiency differently. Or maybe we'll need to measure efficiency using a metric that best fits a new type of fuel. Or maybe some day the NIJ will decide that M993 AP is best for determining whether a plate is level IV - or maybe it'll be down to how many watts of power the armor plate can take. Who knows? But until then it is not obsolete, it is a standard by which certain armor classifications are determined, wouldn't you agree? Maybe you meant "is questionable quality, ancient, surplus M2 AP appropriate for testing the M2 AP level IV NIJ standard?" Fighting caliber? Obsolete unless used for hunting armor plated elk... virtually any modern platform would be better suited.
Are you talking about a real cartridge, cause that's like 3 different cartridges all slammed into one there. Are you referring to 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Hybrid/Fury, or some 7.62 Cartridge?
Not it's not obsolete. You can take out stacks of modern SF with Cheetah 1919s. 1200 RPM on a tripod. The whole 100 yards WW1 style. Not obsolete by a long shot. You don't even need A.P. with volume as Northern Mexico has shown us time and again.
I would like to see the fn 5.7x28mm rounds in 27 grain fired at the level 4 armor as its reported to travel at 2,400 ft per second to see hat it will do.
have i have an idea for a video but if you like it you have to send me one :P Shoot a breachpen with various caliber tracers and see if they can be ignited while in a pouch.
.30-06 requires a 24" barrel to get advertised velocities. If it's loaded with slower burning powder, it'll lose that much velocity. I have no doubt though that that stuff is still underpowered. Great Video sir.
:) I’ll see if I can find a 24”-26” but still have a feeling the 2,880 is a little outside the obtainable velocity of 30-06 and was likely done for a little extra safety. IE If it stops it at 2880 no surplus will hit that at real engagement.
@@BuffRANGEprobably will have to custom order it. perhaps fuchs fine guns and get a double barrel bolt action rifle as well hahaha
@BuffRANGE If you hold the ALT key on your keyboard and type 0177, then let go of the alt key, it will give you the "±" character. Similarity, ALT+0176 will give you "°" (degrees).
Just an odd bit of information that you can use in future videos.
I knew about the degree symbol. Didn’t know about the +\-
You can also buy a Bulgarian keyboard. It already has that on it. But you have to learn Bulgarian
I think even in ww2 that Ammo was rated for 2780 FPS the extra 100 FPS was just a worst case scenario and to account for temperature changes, longer barrels etc.
1919 barrels were longer than garand barrels maybe?
@A A 1919 for perimeter home defense lol
@@Enjoyer.762 Anything less than drum fed is NGMI. My turrets use only the most Stallman approved free and open source software( with redundancies and firewalls and complex codes for security of course). The Antichrist will never make me drink the corn syrup!
Thanks for all the videos! I see them on armor companies websites. Appreciate it
Awesome! That means a lot when they actually embed my videos
I wouldn't say it's "obsolete" per se, but perhaps a bit obsolescent of a round to use for modern day testing. As we have seen in recent videos, things like M993 would just shred through Level IV plates that M2AP wont be able to go through and I'd imagine you're more likely to run into that vs M2AP nowadays out in the field. As well as that new 6.8 Sig round that they claim will just defeat all sorts of armor, as per Army's claims.
JOE BIDEN IS A COMMUNIST PAID BY XI PING TO RUIN AMERICA ARREST JOE FOR TREASON. AND NANCY AND MITCH ARREST THEM ALL FOR TREASON AGAINST ALL AMARICANS.
m993 won't penetrate level 4.
It's always good to have "get off my lawn" ammo.
More like "get under my lawn" ammo hahaha
Thanks for the video Matt!
Very professional approach!
My Pleasure!
Super Accurate data points and Testing as always B!!!
Right on
*BUFFMAN!!!!!!!*
someday I'll invent/create level 7 armor (gonna skip over 4,5, and 6)
It will be a wearable armor capable of stopping TANK ROUNDS.
Whats the point if u still die from impact
ICTV be like:
@@Token_Black_Guy Trauma padding is physically possible and it too has seen improvement over the recent years.
Nice video. Thanks for your efforts you put into your channel.
You're very welcome!
The only reason M2 AP was spec'ed by the NIJ is the stuff was ubiquitous when they first drew up the specifications back in the '70s? '80s?; every high power shooter using a DCM Springfield or Garand out past 600yds was using the then-readily available surplus because the 172gr AP bullet was more accurate at range than the standard 150gr M2 Ball, as it more closely approximated the original 175gr M1 Ball load the Springfield was designed to use. [NB: M2 was originally developed because the Army determined they didn't have enough ranges of sufficient length to maintain range safety in practice w/ M1. Now you know...]
Regrettably, the stuff has become very thin on the ground in the decades since then, and someone stole my one 30cal ammo can of it (that I'd bought in the '90s when it was still cheap) a decade ago...
I’ve shot this stuff through 1 inch steel plate at 50 yards no way it’s obsolete
Now just imagine how bad ass a tungsten penetrator is :)
Nice Kentucky windage Matt 👍!
Your comments in this video should be listened to very carefully as there is a lot of wisdom to be found in them...such as how storage can affect performance (this applies to reloading powder as well). I have found in a number of cases where even shipping conditions (temperature et al.) and loading conditions (especially, humidity) can affect not only velocities, but case capacities as well! Your mentioning of place of manufacture and testing of AP core alloys and hardness àre also spot on and critical in making performance comparisons. As always, keep up the excellent work!
I like this guy he makes niche stuff that’s very satisfying!!!
I do want to see if it can handle multiple hits of the proper 2,880 (or whatever the standard is)???
Most of these plate designs can handle 3-4 of them :D This one did take one at spec pLUS one at over 3100! ua-cam.com/video/Z-CVSYWc9ko/v-deo.html
Any chance you’d do a stacked plate destruction video? Either AR550 over a level III or a level III soft wrap under a cheaper level III ceramic?
That is crazy ouch
Please do a video using your clay backface box, and test out the Botach Poron XRD impact sheets. They are 11x14, 9mm thick, and are said to reduce blunt force trauma by a great degree. Botach is selling them as backface trauma pads.
Great video! Recommend shooting out of the M-1 garand 24 inch barrel!
Took me a second there figuring out what was going on when your third hand with red nails showed up to help.😆
Haha helper hands!
Ouch!!! Awesome video. Nice speeds for surplus ammo on a 23”
Designed for M1 Garand which has 24 " barrel
I'll gladly use the M1 and see what we get velocity wise :D
You'd lose the difference in velocity the 2 inches in barrel length would give you by using a semi automatic action.
@@xxxxxxxx183 very little though.
Yeah those rounds are definite vibe checks, idc if you roll up in a tank; you're gonna have a bad day - long barrel or short
Ya'know, trauma padding against blunt damage exists. It doesn't do miracles, but it has been a thing since ancient and medieval times.
@@mekingtiger9095 You will feel it still
@@bowathand Depends on the model of the vest and how effective your trauma plate is. Some older ones won't do much to absorb the impact and you will leave with some bad bruises. But there are also reports of soldiers getting shot with the same caliber using more modern vests who have felt less of the impact. It's certainly physically possible to improve padding materials aswell.
Blunt damage is in the ashtray. Spark it up dude
@@bowathand Yeah, for this vest you will definitely leave out with broken ribs. But then again, the tendency of body armor has been to be improved over and over in recent years. It's crazy how fast armor has been evolving in the past of only 20 years!
And it's still definitely better to be hit with this than without it either way. More chances of survival if you receive quick enough medical attention.
Hey did you see the Adept Armor Colossus plate? It's claims to be rated for both M993/M995 and Swiss P AP, at just 6.5lbs and 650 usd per plate. Utilizing a SiC-TiB2 strike face and dyneema backer.
Yes I am hopeful to get some for testing
Cool, I'll wait until I can see it tested to buy a set then.
Lol wow @@LSD25
Good job. Thank you so much.
Thanks Matt , time for another Scooby snack . You deserve it.
Very interesting videos. What is the proper temperature for the clay to show some real results???
About 103F
It may be obsolete but pulling the bullets and loading it in .300 Win Mag isn’t lol
The ".300 Win-Chad" lol
30-378 weatherby magnum would be monster
If these rounds were "magnum" loaded for SHTF situation like intended I'm sure they'd perform as such but unless it's a throw away M1 or .3006 caliber it's best left untested. Yes .3006 for modern day may be antiquated but I still don't understand why .308 was favored over .3006 in sniping platforms before .300 mag step up (besides logistic needs)
Love the pricing on those plates, best budget plates imo, i want to build another carrier with RMA, but what plates would u recommend for 1 teir above LAPG price wise
London bridge tactical runs ocasional deals on plate carriers, just look around and you will find a deal
Excellent video king. Is there anyway you could load the 30-06 cases to the 3880 FPS NIJ spec?
It's got the length of like a 180gr bullet, with a fairly long bearing surface. I'm not sure if they're loaded to max pressure or not. I'm sure one could get close with a 24" barrel ?
Man it's been a long time since I watched one of your video's. It's been a long time since FN 5.7 rounds and such... I got a bunch of 60's era 30-06 M2. I always wonder what they would go good with if pulled and I went with a more modern round. Still love my grand pa Springfield 30-06, but most hunting here is in the short to mid range so I never use it.
M2, or M2AP?
It seems the safest way to defeat level 4 is a head shot
Asking "is 30-06 M2 AP obsolete [for testing level IV]?" is like asking if gasoline is obsolete for testing fuel economy.
Maybe some day engines will be so efficient that we need to measure efficiency differently. Or maybe we'll need to measure efficiency using a metric that best fits a new type of fuel. Or maybe some day the NIJ will decide that M993 AP is best for determining whether a plate is level IV - or maybe it'll be down to how many watts of power the armor plate can take. Who knows?
But until then it is not obsolete, it is a standard by which certain armor classifications are determined, wouldn't you agree? Maybe you meant "is questionable quality, ancient, surplus M2 AP appropriate for testing the M2 AP level IV NIJ standard?"
Fighting caliber? Obsolete unless used for hunting armor plated elk... virtually any modern platform would be better suited.
It's cool
Maybe this would have been effective against "The Batman" batman suit.
Wish I could find this stuff
M2Ap? It’s about $3-4/rd right now
For the algorithm!
Alligators are green, and they appreciate thumbs uP!
The standard m2 3006 is rated to around 2900. I dont believe the ap rounds were ever loaded to 2880
I believe it was 2,740 was the M2 Spec at 78'. I will try to find the M2-AP spec. I thought it was 2,750, but maybe it's only 2,715?
@@BuffRANGE One thing to remember is there was a wide array of issued ammo and bullet weights between 150 to 165ish grains
@@keithrichardson4333 Indeed. I'll have try to find the spec sheet. I used to have it.
@@BuffRANGE that would be pretty cool to see
I think I lost a can of this in a boating accident somewhere? 🤔
I'm guessing M2 loaded at 3848fps (what the chrono read before you started shooting) will smoke through level IV like it's not even there?
That was from the Remington Accelerators.
@@BuffRANGE Haha I get that, but just hypothetically speaking, what would M2 at that velocity do? Could any level 4 out there stand up to such abuse?
Gun range rules says "every gun is loaded" shouldn't it be treat every gun like it's loaded?
There's a difference
I mean it says "Treat every gun as if it is loaded and dangerous".
7.6 grendal fury hybrid. 80,000 psi.
Done deal.
Are you talking about a real cartridge, cause that's like 3 different cartridges all slammed into one there. Are you referring to 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Hybrid/Fury, or some 7.62 Cartridge?
Not it's not obsolete.
You can take out stacks of modern SF with Cheetah 1919s. 1200 RPM on a tripod.
The whole 100 yards WW1 style.
Not obsolete by a long shot. You don't even need A.P. with volume as Northern Mexico has shown us time and again.
I would like to see the fn 5.7x28mm rounds in 27 grain fired at the level 4 armor as its reported to travel at 2,400 ft per second to see hat it will do.
They go 2000-2100 fps in the FSN. I've fired hotter 5.7 ammo at a compromised level IV and it took 10 concentrated shots to penetrate it.
@@BuffRANGE Ok thanks for the helpful info.
👍
devastating
All I know is faces are not bullet proof.
They are not indeed without armor, and head and face armor isn't level IV
dannng
have i have an idea for a video but if you like it you have to send me one :P
Shoot a breachpen with various caliber tracers and see if they can be ignited while in a pouch.