Should You Fold Ace King Preflop? | SplitSuit
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- Опубліковано 8 сер 2017
- Ace King. Two cards that create more confusion than any other starting hand. See how SplitSuit plays it, and then steal his playbook! www.splitsuit.com/ace-king-po...
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Today's hand is from $2/$5 live. Ray finds himself in an interesting spot where he raises with AKs, gets 1 caller, and then faces a 100bb jam from a tighter player. Ray ponders if folding this hand preflop can be correct, and under what circumstances. SplitSuit breaks down this situation, double-checks the math, and shows you exactly when you can vs. cannot fold AK preflop. The answer may surprise you.
Looking for more information on AK? Take this free quiz and test your skills today: www.splitsuit.com/ace-king-all...
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A BAD FOLD, is way better then a Bad Call.
Bad Calls will set you on tilt,
I tilt players when I bluff them. So yeah, bad folds tilt way more knowing you could of won that BIG hand.
You just need to understand that everything you do at a poker table conveys information.
You should definitely fold J-7 of diamonds though
Folding AK suited on a 60bb stack with plenty of dead money in the pot based on a sample of about 20 hands: hero is the huge nit, not villain.
The villian is a supernit who just shoved preflop and you want to call with ace high? Nice analysis for a donkey.
noex100 you can't assume villain is a supernit based on just a 20 hands sample
villain is a supernit-- based on an hour of live play? That's what, 30 hands total? That's like 5 hands played for the average player.
Ak is overrated so many players go broke with that hand. You’re at best flipping and could be crushed. So many better spots. In tough games only the rooks lose all their money in this stop.
Who’s shoves jj or less in this spot for 550... only the pure donks
Split Suit continues to be a boss. Love your stuff, man. Looking forward to the book.
If you're aware that your opponent knows exactly what you have without guessing, I reccomend folding without putting money in the pot, getting up, cashing out your chips, and leaving the game.
I really like your videos. I just wish majority of the online poker community wasnt so toxic. Most ppl commenting on poker vids talk like they have a wsop bracelet to their name but ironically they are the ones clicking on tutorial vids !
I've watched all of Split Suit's videos, and thanks to him I've become confident about the numbers in similar spots.
Thanks James.
Because I'm comfortable with the numbers, I can focus on some good questions for myself, before making the final decision.
Like,
Is my estimated +$2 edge, big enough to allow this much luck, right here, and right now?
and,
Am I likely to find other spots with a way bigger edge at this table?
I've folded AK many times pre-flop and I'm happy that I did.
Cheers Darcy!
Great insightful vid!
Great analysis. Thanks for the perspective.
Thanks Nick!
If villain does have AA or KK there, you can console yourself in the knowledge that they made a fairly rookie misplay in 3-bet shoving. I mean, it's the best play if they actually get called by someone, but if not - they lose all that potential value from a call from a hand that's fairly behind, such as, say, AK.
If they had raised to 100 there, there's much more chance that hero calls, and in such a case they'd still be way behind and have a chance at giving up more value.
Honestly, as Split talks about, from a decent player it makes much more sense for a lot of their shove range here to consist of weaker hands than AA and KK (TT, JJ, QQ and AK) as those hands will generally have good equity if they get called, but given that they run more risk of falling behind they're happy to take the ~15 blinds that are already in the pot uncontested. But then you can get into the layers of thought discussion, where opponents would never expected a good player to shove AA or KK, so shoving with it can occasionally pay dividends.
I still think it is a more nitty fold. Ofcourse Villain has AA, KK sometimes, but I would lean more towards hands like AQs, pocket jacks. I do not think he has pocket 9s. Since I play mostly live, people overvalue so many hands. In my casino it is not unlikely to see allins for 80+ BB with pocket 9s. Sometimes even 8s. I guess it is different in all casinos. The biggest problem I have with this fold is the stack size. Hero has about 60BB. Now if we had 110BB it is a different situation. But if I have 60BB I raise get called and then shoved on I am usually stacking it. Yeah sometimes I run into AA, KK but I have blockers to that and I think especially in a live game this should have been a somewhat tank call. Not to mention we can run it multiple times. Great vid though, as always :)
Tomas Zaloudek agreed. I think villian is not very likely to just rip AA/KK in over a 30 dollar raise. Feels really AQ/JJ ish to me. I think in general 60 bigs effective is a very reasonable stack size to get AK in pre at lower stakes
Yeah if I have 60BB I am looking to double up, not to play too much postflop with good hands that are very vulnerable. There is just too much dead money in there to even consider a fold. I agree also that he doesn't rip KK+ when he could easily just make a small reraise.
Yup. I know I only mentioned it in passing at the end of the video, but many players fork their range and either remove or diminish their nut combos when they choose to jam over the $30 preflop. That alone can be the swaying factor...
Jordan Gerrity you need to look at the EV calculations in the video. Just because we may be behind doesn't make folding AK correct, we can be behind in equity and still have a plus EV call
I do not agree. Even if we concluded, that Villain does this purely with pairs (pairs above 3s lets say), then we have about 45% equity. Pot odds? 42%. So even if that is the case, it is a plus EV call. Sure its only 3% but it is still plus EV. Now lets factor in AQs, AJs and our EV skyrockets. Sure we have to add AA,KK but still it is purely plus EV. Not to mention the 60BB stack again.
Mathematical analysis is great. Thank you
I was in mtt tour w/AKs utg, i raised 3 bb, 1 caller and the HJ allin, had me covered, but that would be my tour life if i called??????, I folded, small pairs have been kicking my ass, w/AK, I finished 7th in tournant so it ended up +ev play?
What if u called and doubled up? U wouldve had a much better chance of winning. Tough spot for sure but sometimes u gotta go for it.
So, if the nitty villain raise to 100$ instead, what are my options with AK ?
Whats the biggest score that you made playing mtt's?
Don’t like folding here. The villain could just be using his right imagine to bag some money with a medium hand like 99-AQ. If he is tight and wakes up with AAs KKs why would he shove 18x? He already has a tight imagine so he knows that a lot of people are going to fold. I think he is just making a move with a medium paired hand with some equity. Hoping his imagine can save him and if not he still had a flopable hand. I think the villain has a medium to high pocket pair.
Matt Roither exactly !
Matt Roither he mabey isn't a villain,but he has a Poke-Badge..and he will use position and betting strats aswell
I think you need to be careful how much credit you give the guy..... most players at 1/3 2/5 just don't have the capability or skill level to use their image correctly. If you know he's a skilled player, then thinking through he's mindset is possible. I just have seen too many players at this level not be able to go that deep into the strategy......
@@robertkaufman9525 so true. That’s why you see a lot of props avoid playing no limit high stakes with randoms. It’s just a feeding ground for all sorts of different plays and weird angles/tactics.
How the hell did James know I'd open this first thing this morning w his 'goooood morning'?! 😅
~°The reads!°~ lol
..Have been subbed for a little over a year now and as always, great analysis,breakdowns, and content 👍
Thanks Happy!
Me personally have folded AK pre flop on about 5 different occasions but every time I was in between a rock and a hard place. Like having 2 people all in and still have at least one person left behind you. It’s a tough pill to swallow but if it means that you can live to play another hand then so be it
If i were villain with AA or KK, I'd reraise pre to about 140 to (hopefully) invite action. Shoving 550 pre screams medium pair; but do I want to flip?
I hate AK , I get screwed with them more than i win with them.
You'e probably not playing them aggressively enough. AK doesn't want to see the flop as often as QQ+. You make money by playing the hand aggressively preflop to force people to fold their equity, having decent equity when they do call against every hand except exactly AA (of which you block half the combos), as well as just dominating other AX hands.
yup
if your long term EV with AK is not positive then you're probably playing them wrong
Play them aggressively. Make a big bet preflop and be quick to make another quick bet on the flop.
Better than AJ anyway lol
Playing PLO earlier, folded a set of 9s on the flop after calling a quarter pot sized bet and the guy two seats behind bet the pot. Raising player had been hitting a lot of hands prior to this hand and I felt like he was on a rush. Like I said, I folded on the flop and when it got to the showdown I see that he had flopped a set of Jacks :/ Sometimes you just have to fold.
Also want to mention I only made that fold because I was already booking a huge win and the guy that raised had almost as much as I did. Just felt stupid to play as long and as well as I had just to throw it away out of position with middle set.
Wow great fold
1:33 When can I fold AK vs. a 3-bet preflop?
Simple answer (and I usually never oversimplify poker): This situation is the absolute only time.
Otherwise? Never.
how is the pot 372 prior to the call?
Fantastic stuff!
Thanks Ricky!
I may be missing something here, but I downloaded the spreadsheet and I can't see where is the "Calling a preflop shove" part. I only have "4-bet Preflop EV" and "4bet Commit EV". Did you link the wrong spreadsheet? :D
Thanks for the HU Rogor. I just updated it and you can redownload it here: redchippoker.com/free-poker-ev-spreadsheet/
its simple.. does he earn 500 a week at work or 5k a week at work.. 500 a week fold.. 5k a week call
when you say "this dude" i crack up a little
Been in this spot, made the wrong decision, great analysis
Thanks Will!
someone tell me , do we actually have the time to go put in the range of cards that the other players could have in the software then calcualte the pot odds or ev or equity , then only bet ? online tables only give you 15 secs to place your bet ! so how does one do all the calculation in the mind ?
The idea isn't to utilize software while actually playing, but instead to do enough off-table study that you can better intuit the actual answer. This workbook is one of the best ways to do that fwiw: www.splitsuit.com/poker-preflop-math-workbook
If you look at what you are holding you have exactly Ace high, so, with the possibilty of not improving likely, and you are likely behind already, its a fold, or you are gambling. If he is going all-in every hand different matter, but still risking your stack. That seems to be the style these days, but, if I wanted to play bingo I would go to the bingo hall.
Does it takes rack into consideration in the EV calculation?
Because rack is substantial in most games and decreases the call EV
I remember rack room shoes back in the 90s
Racks upon racks of footwear imo
I think it's pretty interesting to ask this question. If he has Aces here, why is he betting this much and can he really be wanting action here? I know for a fact that players do this with KK and QQ, and i am sure some of the time it might be AA, but wouldn't he want a better shot at getting action with AA some of the time? He is 19xing a 3bet, certainly this is not anything like a standard size, I would have to think about why a rec might be doing this, since a Reg just shouldnt ever really be doing this. Also I now realize Splitsuit went over all of this. Great video
Honestly everyone has there experiences with this spot i honestly would fold 1/3 of the time reasoning of folding here is just due to getting ak more often then aa and kk so I mean getting this type of spots with this kinda odds its to get...but I mean yo went off your pre flop reads knowing he's been sitting there and any 4x pre flop means aa kk qq aks...so basically when he sees your bet he can came with any of those hands making it look like he has aa or kk....so imo you made a good fold
While it's important to know how your opponents are playing, I think another thing that Hero is overlooking in this analysis is how am I being perceived? If I've been raising a higher percentage of pots, then I think this makes this situation a definite call. The Villain could simply be squeezing with hands like AQ or medium pocket pairs if they think we're raising wider especially when there have been several limps before our action. Our raise could be perceived as a steal & then Villain's 4-bet is a re-steal which I think is more probable given the over-size shove. On bigger hands like this, isn't that next level of analysis needed?
For sure. Though I'm not sure how much the deeper analysis would fare vs a player who is likely jamming 100BB over 6BB preflop out of fear (instead of as a strategic adjustment)
James (SplitSuit) fair point. Evaluating the other player's skill is key to this sort of analysis & the bet suggests that the skill level is questionable.
I have a question about my pre flop raising in 2/5, I just moved state for a couple of months and the live games here are super fishy, having said that im finding it difficult to maximise my EV with my opening range, my default in live games is usually 5 x and that does the job in my average game back home, if i raise 5 x in this state however every man and his dog wants to see a flop, so obviously i bumped up my raise size when i got to 7 x i thought i found a sweet spot getting 1caller pre but eventually the regs picked up that i was raising this amount consistently so they all started calling again, i ended up getting to 9 x and id get all folds unless someone had 10's plus then id get a call or a 3-bet, my question is what do i do in this situation to gain maximum EV do i just sacrifice equity with 6-7 x and back my post flop play or do i raise to a ridiculous amount and get all folds. Thank you
That's just about the funniest thing I've perused n a looong thyme!
I'm not james but I think that if they are calling you this light, you should just tighten up your range. Play nittier and you'll destroy them in the long run, i learned the hard way that live poker is a lot about BRM.
I'm playing 50/100 my opponent raises to 300, I'm looking at AKo and I want to isolate him so I reraise to 600, everybody else folds and then my opponent reraises to around 3,000. I've got around 7600 so I shove all in. Turns out he had KK, ran twice, didn't hit anything. I'm pretty sure it was a bad since I would assume his 3bet 30xbb range would be AQ+ and the equity was bad for me to shove.
I've seen this soooo many times ESPECIALLY with AKo. Even though the numbers vary by a about 3%, I believe there's big difference between AKs and AKo. That being said, with the scenario presented with the player types and how the table has been playing, I believe that this is a fold as well. Poker is a game of thinking and decisions, and I see a lot of people on here just "no brainer" AK . Being dealt slick doesn't mean you can automatically shut down your mind.
It really comes down to you how you think that game/table is playing and how that villian is and if you want to gamble. Personally I don't see a shove w/ AA or KK here very often, just sometimes. I see JJ and QQ shove, hoping to fold out AK's, AQ's, etc. AA and KK block a lot of AK's, where QQ and JJ don't. I would not expect anyone to shove AQ, etc. When I'm faced with this decision, I think small chance I'm crushed, mostly likely a race. If I'm up - I race, if I don't feel like rebuying, I fold. I only have $30 in the pot, its not a session maker. I may even SHOW the guy the AK to try and get him to show. Often the will. Plus, that induces a LOT of bluffs from the action players - thinking i"ll fold AK to any shove from them.... In the end, none of us here are pros or we would not be watching free videos on youtube. We all want to get better. Its your money, take all this, think about the hand and do what you'd like. I'm ok either way. BTW I folded AA preflop in a tournament that I won. It was a nightly WSOP turbo - 2nd blind level - UTG raised, UTG +1 reraised, UTG +2 shoved and middle called. I'm on the button w/ two red AA. BB was already doubled up and looking to call. I folded. BB had JJ - flopped a J - I'd have been out. Cash - I guess thats a call all day - but I wouldn't like it but I would. But in cash, I'd shove and flop my AA face up - and hope the BB folded his JJ -
Well said Greg!
Unless it's like a qualifier bubble time your AA is a bad fold. Just because you would've ended up being unlucky doesn't justify a bad play. It's like folding HU AA preflop and turning the board anywaus and seeing he somehow would've pulled a flush on you with K6 and saying how you made a great fold
@@ainevek lmao agreed. AA fold is maybe justified if theres like 5 playerd on FT and 4 of them shove. U willl earn money by folding AA. SO ITS fine.
isnt the effective 342?
I am not comfortable with taking AA and KK out of the guy's range in this situation but I've never seen anyone I would put on _just_ those hands either.
Yes!
My problem with your excellent videos emphasizing EV is that it all makes sense in cash games ... over the long run. But ... ant time you are facing a bet for all your stack in tournaments... it's a VERY different story. One error in evaluating where u are when making such a call there and u are done.
In tournament poker patience and discretion are rewarded when facing big bets. If you think someone is taking advantage of this philosophy... slow play monsters occasionally against them ... that'll slow them down.
This in a nutshell is why tournament players look 4 reasons to fold AK and why the hand is called "walking home to texas".
Im pretty sure these videos are aimed at cash game players. Of course tournament play is widely different from cash because of changing blind structure, icm, payout structure (tournament life vs in the money). Ranges are widely different in tournament play as well
so if I cal with 42% Equity I wil be break even but when I fold I will always losing 30$ already inwested :)
That's the difference between absolute vs. relative EV fwiw =)
It's not always the top two it could be Queens or jacks or tens Even a suited ace queen If they feel like you're fold
More likely an unsuited AQ (which there are three times more of) as they're happier seeing a flop with a suited hand
I really hate AK. I used to loose a lot of $ with it by playing too aggressively, so I switched strategy. I started flating with it when out of position as it disgises the hand and I don't feel commited, except when I'm in the BB or SB facing a raise from the button, in this case I 3 bet. If I miss and don't have much going on I just fold without thinking twice. When I'm in position I 3 bet and flat to a 4 bet and sometimes even just fold depending on the player.
But I'm just an average player playing NL10 so what do I know?
Ho, I do shove in some situations. When facing an all in from a short stack and we're the only ones into the pot.
And I'm refering to cash games.
Tough choice. Dude could be making a move on the button. But he's likely up against a hand that is a coin flip at best. Then it boils down to stack size.
This video popped up in my suggested and its a really interesting spot. At what point does overall table situation trump math? I believe this is a barely profitable spot and that math dictates i should close my eyes and call. that being said, do I need to take this spot vs a nit when there seems to be some really fishy players at the table who want to donate money? Note: If i do fold, im never showing the laydown
Its a cash game, so I suppose, you can reload? That being said I dont have a problem taking this spot off. As James show, its kind of marginal even in a best case scenario and massively losing in a worst case scenario.
I was playing a tournament (about 20 players away from the bubble) and got AKo on the CO with about 11BB left. I was also the shortstack at the table. Villain in front of me shoves. I call all in. Everybody else folds, he shows QQ and I don't get an ace or king and lose the tournament. If I had folded I might have been able to reach the bubble and cash out... yet on the other hand with only about 11 blinds left I had to do something. Still can't make out if I made the right decision or not.
How many bb did the guy have ?were there any short stacks after u ? Cause if there were He has a wide range
( he could shove with K10s here ). Anyways you're wayyyyy ahead of his range with AK and 20 players away from the bubble is still far away especially with 11 bb. So you should call
11bb? easy call man. Sleep easy knowing you made the right decision. Even if you put him on QQ its a counflip and you're taking that with a short stack
Do you think it's a profitable shove from the villain if his shoving range is JJ QQ KK AK facing that action?
Profitable, yes. Optimal, no.
Sometimes you have to fold it. AK isn't a made hand and you're going to lose a majority of the time. Mostly a gamble against a shove preflop.
AK
Well you block AA/KK
It’s feels like QQ.....
You have $265 left..... all depends on how you feel like gambling, I probably fold because one of the limpers definitely have a A
what good is a blocker? AA/KK still kicks AKs ass.
when nits shove, you run no matter what. unless ofc you have aa/kk
Still hurting after I went all in with AK suited and get called with AA
Idk that many people are going to shove with aces there. It’s more likely to be queens or kings in most situations but it’s not like we’ve been watching the guy play. I don’t hate the fold either way (I fold ak pre in tournaments a lot. Even if it is against qq or jj I don’t wanna put my tournament on the line for a flip unless I have to. If I think there’s a good chance it’s aq or aj I’ll of course make the call. People overate ak pre. It’s only a great hand against weaker aces or kq.
Basically what he jams here is what his image is portrayed and what he see your image and range...thats what its basically based on
I think naturally people don't want to have to get there, they want to already have a made hand in preflop all in situations. The sweat is just harder to take when you need help, even though it's a flip either way.
People also flat AK for similar reasons preflop. They've ran into scenarios where they 3bet preflop, get called, completely missed flop and feel pot committed, shove, get called by junk, and lose. Happens all the time so they really hate AK as a result.
I get it, I also hate playing AK, but I still know how strong it is and play accordingly. It's basically something you just have to force yourself to do.
what are the odds he has pocket aces or hings when you have 1 of each.....pretty slim i would think...i would be guessing pocket queers
Man I just got in a spot I'm iffy about. Ako in LJ, 2/5 game 1k eff (200bb) I open to 15 (3bb) , competent semi lag 3B! In HJ to 55 ( 11BB) folds to BTN, cold 4B! To 125$ (25BB) competent player again, reg at the casino 2/5 game. Back on me. The 4B! Sizing kind of threw me off because you rarely see an online sizing in a live game. And I hadnt seen him cold 4B! Before so i dont know what his typical sizing is. Anyway, what do you guys do her 200BB deep and OOP? Flatting and incentivizing the HJ to come in giving him 4:1 and go 3 ways ? 5B! To 250 (62BB) and happily get it in? 5B! To that amount and fold? It would be 1/4 of my stack so I could still fold. I was baffled. I'm not going to lie, I've been playing really bad lately, and I just pitched it. Would love some input. You dont see many 3B! Or 4B! In live games but this was a table where most hands were getting 3B! Or folded. Few flats. A few 4B! The table had been this way for about 90 minutes and I think I had seen 3 or 4 different 4B! So it wasnt your average 2/5 live game. Tbh I was a bit out of my element. I like to think I'm a solid player but I've never seen a 2/5 game at my casino with this many good players at a table and I've been running bad lately and I felt as though it would be a high variance table so I didnt play many hands. 3b! Q10s and got it through. Opened and flatted QQ to a 3b! Called a C bet and x/x turn and he folded to my river bet. those were only hands. Please lmk what you guys do. I'm viewed as a semi decent TAG player in my game.
Can you post this in the Discord? Thanks William! redchippoker.com/discord
AK is like Anna Kournikova, looks good, very rarely wins
Let me ask this would you rather play QQ or AKs in these spots ?
QQ in this spot
kevinboo2000 I mean obviously queens but he makes a good point . Even when you have the third best hand in the game pre ... the math is 56.35% to 44.65% .. essential
Still a coin flip
Can you fold AK? Yes, in fact, I don't like going multi way all in or in potential all in multi way with AK. It's bad.
Who ships AA in that spot? This is JJ-KK and AK from someone scared to play streets.
Aces get cracked all the time. Not a terrible play to just shove and take down the blinds.
I would much rather call with AK suited than any pocket pair you have way more outs yo improve post flop and not only that position in this case dosent matter because they would both be all in so not like he has to worry about a turn barrel. And if you wont call in this spot with some of your best hands do you ever call or what would you call with
any pocket pair will beat out AK.
AK suited you call. Unsuited you fold. You didn't analize AK unsuited in your program. Plus why did seat 7 flat call your raise ? I would definitely call and start pulling out the rebuy.
NOW you tell me! I only play tournaments and was about 7 or 8 levels in and had 50 big blinds, almost double starting stack. I'm on the button and it folds around to me. I have A-K (not suited). I raise 5 times the big blind. The small blind thinks and thinks and thinks and CALLS. The big blind raises 25 times the big blind! WTF? He shoved with A-Q earlier and knocked out a player ($200 entry fee; $50 bounty for each player knocked out). I think and think and think. My first instinct: FOLD; live to fight another battle. But then I thought more: "Maybe he's got A-Q again. Maybe he just thinks I'm trying to steal the blinds, which would make perfect sense. I end up calling, which is about half my stack. The small blind...what does he do?? Remember, he just called my raise. Well, he shoves (we have about the same stack size; the big blind has us both easily covered). The small blind goes all in and the big blind follows suit. My thinking is once again flawed: "I HAVE to go all in...I'm pot committed and I can win a TON of chips!" 3-way all in. The small blind (what a clever play by him) turns over pocket aces; the big blind turns over pocket queens. The aces hold and I'm out of the tournament. I am SO disappointed with my terrible play there...my initial instinct was spot on and I should have listened to it.
I think the button had pocket 10's.
Your coin flipping at best most of the times I’m never shoving unless preflop to a 3x bet so worst case QQ’s KK AA
Why on Earth pre-flop ? Unless it's to do with position ..
Even if they shove with 22. You know they are not shoving with anything you have an advantage over
Sorry, but isn't it calling $265 to win $342? (ignoring rake)
My calculation gives me 1.29:1 pot odds, with 43.66% break even...
I'm getting NOT PROFITABLE calling against that QQ+ AK range, because we only have about 42% equity against that range...
Where am I going wrong here? I'm pretty sure I counted the pot correctly ($265 from the shove, $30 from the flat caller if they do fold, my original $30, plus the blinds and two limps) at $342 total...
Hey Andrew. You are pretty close, but villain's shove is for $295. That $30 difference should get you back to the right number =)
Isn't Seat 7 important in this spot? What is his range and what percentage of that range might have A or K?
Which hands in his call $30 range do you feel Seat7 would also call the shove if we call too?
It's not that I think he would shove. I'm just thinking he must have some/lots of A or K (specially A) that take away the possibility of us making a hand. Is that a thing to take into consideration?
I ask this because I do it when I play... is that bad? For instance, if I'm UTG with AK and get called by 1 or 2 players that are kind of tight and another very tight player makes a big reraise or shoves, I tend to fold because I believe there must be Aces and K on those 6 cards and my outs must be reduced.
btw, I'm just a micro stakes player :)
They may be reduced slightly, but thinking about his entire range it at most is going to block one card just some percentage of the time. I don't factor it in here personally...
Thank you!! :) It's awesome to have this feedback from you!
You're very welcome Antero =)
Hands where all the decisions happen pre-flop can have very valuable learning concepts in them, to be sure. They make for incredibly uninteresting UA-cam videos, though. Are you sure there wasn't a different hand in that overflowing inbox of yours that would have demonstrated this pre-flop concept while also providing points of interest on later streets?
Could this spot arise preflop and also provide decisions on future streets?
Do you need someone to show you the way to Sesame street?
Why are we playing 2/5 with $260?
I would not use those tools, since that is something I cannot do in real time while playing. I think it is a good idea to try to do the math in your head
what if i tell you that having done with tools goes to your head
I do not know for which kind of audience is this video, but discussing about folding preflop AKs 60bb deep in this spot will surely not improve your game too much. It will be a lot more intresting discuss the same spot when hero and villain are 200 bb deep. It will be more useful for everyone. It is also a lot more common situation in mid stakes live games.
I do my best to review hands from a wide range of limits and for a wide range of skill sets. That being said, this hand at 200bb is actually even more boring =)
If more boring because more complex to analyze you are right. If not, I do not understand why you are saying so. Bye
If villain jammed 200bb here, you'd be getting worse odds. A good player understands jamming for 200bb there is an awful risk:reward and as such the player must not be good. If they are not good, are they really jamming 200bb with enough air? Likely not, and thus you almost certainly don't have enough equity to call.
Like I said...boring =)
(Put a different way. When it's right to call this at 200bb, it's so extremely obvious and read-dependent. In all other cases, there is pretty much zero reason to call it given the math)
You are right in your analysis when villain shove 200bb. I did not explain well what I wanted to say. Here it is: it will be more useful and interesting to analyze what to do in a similar spot when hero and villain are 200 bb deep and villain 3 bet to 15/20bb. That is what I wanted to say. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Ahh, then we are certainly on the same page now =)
No way am I folding 60 bigs here, especially when I have blockers
What if V has the last 2 Aces or Kings? Even in this hand, there are 3 combos of KK or AA.
I fold AK to every old nit at my casino. I hate playing with old nits
Okay but on the last calculation with tens plus it's still only a 21 ev. I would not consider that highly profitable when risking your $300 stack when you can basically choose any time to get it in during a cash game. I've been in plenty situations where I raised with garbage flop the nuts and just slowly bet down and the whole table is calling me I mean I know that's not going to happen all the time but I'm not coin flipping either. There's also times where I hit my two pair or my set. I mean it's cash not tournament you could sit there all day and these people are too stupid to notice so why gamble at all
Yes i should of folder [A] [K] suited hearts but i didn't and i lost to someone who had [3] [10] suited spades.
Lol
In cash game; yes, sometimes you should fold AK preflop………in tournaments……you should ABSOLUTELY fold AK preflop……and the reason why is in a tournament, one bad hand is the reason between nothing and being the chip leader……I’m not much of a cash game guy but I fuckin love tournament poker and as hard as it is……sometimes you have to let big slick go……..and honestly the main reason is if a short stack shoves with pocket 4s and you can with AK…….welll there favored against you………KQ is even worse…. IMO KQ is the worst hand to be all in with in a tourney for 2 reasons
1: you THINK you’re strong
2: you’re crushed mathematically by any pair and Ax
I've often had thoughts about AK vs under pairs recently and why I may it may be a bit less than a 50/50 flip. The calculator may call it a 50/50 flip but it won't take in to consideration if you are playing with a full ring and the strong possibility of other players holding an A or K. If you lose 1 or 2 of your outs you become a 30/70 dog.
You could just as easily say the opposite though - that with everyone folding it means the Ace and Kings are more likely to be IN the deck rather than OUT if people would typically play those hand types...
Lol this is such bad logic.
Whether those aces or kings are in the muck, other players' hands or the bottom of the deck; they're equally out of your reach. It statistically makes 0 difference how many players are in the game when you're counting your outs.
By the same token you could also argue that with more players, the chances ANY given card being dealt to the board goes down. Which reduces all combos of hands by the same proportion, making it meaningless anyway.
I would never(99%) go all in with AA or KK or fold AKs to a $260 bet.
I always get screwed aces Kings or ace kings. I much prefer JJ
100 bb min if allowed 250 bb.
AK off suit easy fold, AK suited I'd call.
If 80% of his range is AA-JJ and AK and weighted towards AA and KK you can justify a fold.
i would probably get out of a shove like that too pre-flop
You sound like Steve-O
Call me a donkey, but im just not folding AK preflop
Its obvious you're dominating any other Ace, dominated by AA, KK and flipping with any other pair. No real analysis needed.
This scenario has very little to do with math or strategy, it is all player dependent.
Your decision should be based on your perception of the players behavior.
How is zero math/analysis needed when the decision is exclusively based upon the range you put villain on and the pot odds?
i agrea a lot of these break downs seem simple to me...no calculator needed.
@@willb8684 the math is simple, doesn't mean you need a calculator
All in with an unmade hand? Shove better be from a super donk bingo type.
I had AKs and went all in vs AA. I was hitting the exit in 60 seconds. Gone in 60.
Todd Zickel this just happen to be . Raised a guy preflop to 5k . Guy behind me 3 bet to 15k . Original raiser goes all in . I tank for a minute then call . Other villain calls . AA for the 15k raiser. 10s for the other dude... need to less to say Kings didn’t run out LoL
As a HU player my answer is simple: NO!
I don’t get why this hand is overplayed so much. Best case scenario you’re flipping, and you still have to hit. So do you wanna flip for your whole stack? To me, I’d only do it if I’m short stacked or if I’m 4 betting, but prob wouldn’t call this unless maybe multi way so more money in the pot
Let's say you totally remove AK from your commitment ranges preflop. Are you only committing KK+? If yes, are you difficult to read if you get aggressive preflop?
@@ThePokerBankI just have an easier time pushing w pairs than a drawing hand. With that said, I am still trying to figure out why I can’t beat my 3/5 game so 🤷♂️🤷♂️😂😂.
I can be aggressive w a lot of hands when I am betting but I wouldn’t be too happy to call an all in w more than maybe 60-80BBs. I did it the other day when a guy 4 bet me for about $400 and he had KK
Fair and fair =) @@djson7651
It’s a cash game and he didn’t bring a huge stack... I shove for sure. This question might be more applicable in a tournament where you can’t rebuy.
In a tournament , it's a clear fold scenario.
@@richardlefaive1944 why? Depends on so much things in tourny. Its usuallya call. Rarely a fold. In mtts of course
3 words answer:
YES
YOU
DO!
next video: should you fold bullets?
Why u took my pic. For a second i tought it was my comment xd
@@SoFasT99 i copyrighted this BOIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
AK preflop to call an all-in raise? Donkey shove, every time!!
Good analysis for a tournament situation maybe. Cash game there's no reason chase miniature plus EV situations like this, assuming your opponent doesn't have AA or KK. There will be a day when this dude shoves preflop when you're holding AA or KK yourself and you can cash in.