How to grow mushrooms without a laminar flow hood - what I would do without a flow hood (SAB)
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2021
- Breaking down the still air box (SAB) an alternative to laminar flow hoods in order to grow mushrooms at home. freshfromthefarmfungi.com to purchase our living mycelium cultures and other products visit our ETSY shop Freshfungi www.etsy.com/shop/freshfungi MUSHLOVE
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I am a home hobbyist that uses a still air box & even open air when my fruiting blocks are too big to fit in the still air box.
because isopropyl alcohol is getting harder to find these days or is just way over priced I have been using Lysol spray a lot of the time.
when I inoculate my large fruiting blocks in the open air I go into my den, close the door and turn off my forced air heating system, spray the room with Lysol wait about 60 seconds spray again & than inoculate the fruiting blocks & heat seal the grow bags.
it has worked well (my first four blocks got contaminated because I didn't spray the air with Lysol) I now have six other 5 to 7 pound fruiting blocks that are colonizing very well with zero contamination.
Gary gave me the idea with his incessive cleaning recommendations & his info on the great importance of a sterile working environment while working with fungi.
I have learned the hard way not to ignore Gary's instruction about working as clean as possible !
Thanks Gary, My 9 year old Daughter got to eat some of our first Lions Mane Mushrooms yesterday, they were delicious !!
You can also get hospital disinfectant by the gallon and put it in an electric spray bottle with a fine mist output. It's basically ultra-cheap lysol (same chemical in it)
In normal use, the SAB would also not be on a level where your breath could blow in either, to help control bacteria. Some folks even wear masks to help diffuse the breath.
Helpful feedback thank you!
I mitigate the problem of air displacement the best I can by setting my Still Air Box up above my oven and combining the SAB with "Oven TEK". Basically there's a wall of 250 degree air blasting upwards from the open oven between myself and the SAB. That way I have to pass through that flow before entering the box. It has two great PROS and at least one glaring CON. The PROS are that, as already mentioned, it helps mitigate that air displacement into the box BUT it also helps to dry my gloves and arms faster after wiping them well with ISO which is a huge plus. It means as soon my hands are in the box, I can start working... which brings me to the CON - it can get hot af standing in front of a cracked open 250 degree oven. With the Oven Tek only, you are working on a grate above the flow but with the SAB combo you are basically standing in the hot flow. LUCKILY - mycology work is all about being fast and efficient and that hot flow is a great motivator LOL!
Also - my arm holes are only 4 .5 inches which is plenty big enough to do any of the work I do in there. 6 inches is pretty overkill. I've heard people complain about scratching or cutting their arms on the holes... my arms barely ever touch the edges but it wouldn't matter because they are very smooth. If you can afford the hole saw, you can afford a cheap pack of sand paper to clean that edge up. Takes like an extra 5 minutes tops.
Thank you, spray bottle idea is a gem with the isopropyl alcohol. Growing these things can be tough simply cause how easy contamination occurs
Thanks Gary, this is pretty much what I am doing. I place a towel down as the floor of the system and soak it pretty good with a mix of alcohol and dish soap, this makes a surfactant which captures spores dust etc when it touches the surface of the towel instead of just bouncing around. I place a piece of tinfoil on top of it in the center of the floor as a working area and also spray it with alcohol, so far I have made 3 (one lions mane expansion, one as a needle biopsy from store bought shiitake and pink oyster cloned to agar clamshell technique then liquid) from successful liquid cultures proofed and qc'd on the no pour agar method you mentioned. I also have 4 grainspawn bags 2 lions mane and 2 shiitake and 1 pink oyster lc direct to substrate in large pickle jar with gas exchange holes in lid. All have been successful with no contamination so far! 🙂 Still growing out about to begin to go to substrate today with the grainspawn. It's really fun and thanks for sharing, I really like your channel keep up the good work! 🙂
always great to see the technology being used as intended.
Amazing info!! Cant tell you how much I appreciate your insight and carefully explained procedures 🙏🏼🔥💪🏼
Thanks man, really nice to see a pro like you with all the top gear also think about us hobbyists!
I love your videos. It would be really cool to see you do some test with agar plates and a control to see how much the sba helps.
I'm just getting into growing mushrooms (my first oysters are coming in today, I think), so this is great info. Went out shopping a couple of times yesterday to try to make sure I had everything I needed, lol. Thanks!
Really informative. Thanks
Especially with the no pour agar jar.
You my friend are the first person I have seen in these videos that knows how to pronounce agar. My father was a micro biologist so I am very familiar with it.
Tatiana from Lion's Mane sent me here. Glad to have found this channel.
Great content as always
Thanks for the info my man!
Thank you so much!! My first attempt at inoculation with bought sterile bags ended up with cobweb mold and no mushrooms. I’m going to try again now with a SAB and I’m so much more confident that I will succeed this time! Thanks again!
You will definitely succeed!!!!
Thank you very much for your help.
Love it GREAT tip
Great information. Thank you!
Cool, man I used to live in castle rock when I was a kid we had 10 acres on a hill out west past the train tracks!
you rock brother man. and you don't even need an instrument!
I must’ve missed that the first time I watched this video. I never thought of inoculating the agar and once it’s grown out injecting my non inoculated liquid culture into the agar and suck it up to use back into the LC that just took it out of. The simplicity of that is genius. The only problem with that is how can I get my anger culture to an isolated culture without making any transfers and opening up the cover? I mean I guess you could do that and just watch how it grows out and it will tell you whether or not it’s been contaminated. God that is so awesome.
Great video. Thank you.
Very helpful thank you very much!
excelente vídeo!
Sweet that cool. Subscribed thank You
For better visibility, I use stretched film instead of a cover. At the bottom of the box, you need to put a towel soaked in soapy water. And also to irrigate the walls of the sab, so that the fallen particles could not rise. And also make a double bottom from the grid to minimize contact between surfaces.
I made an inductive loop sterilizer so as not to pull my hands out of the sab.
Buy the largest container you can find.
thanks for the tips!
Hey Paul. 2 years later, but building my SAB. Been wondering about sizes. You say largest size. I can find a 200qt clear laundry box. Is there anything as "too large" for an SAB?
@@MosesMLamget a 80 quart
Great video! Also I have that Same cookie jar lol
Good video... I was highly discouraged upon the discovery of the expense of a flow hood..
that's exactly why i would not want a flow hood, i don't mind wearing a mask and being extra careful
Thank you.
Thank you🙏🏻
Thanks for the info Gary, I'm working out of a SAB currently so it's always good to have great info on it
thanks for watching! I sometimes use these for cleaning up dirty plates and working with spores/spore prints - it still is helpful when you don’t want contams flying around 🙂❤️🍄
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi hey man been watching for a little while now and love your stuff, definitely been very helpful! So I used an SAB and now GLOVEBOX, and I just took foam banding (I forget what it’s sold as, furniture floor protectant or something) and wrapped the lip of my tote so when the lid is latched down, it does create that seal. And then I totally soak that seal with Lysol or another bleach cleaner that stays wet the entire time I work in there!
Thank you
I can tell you as a learning newbie that I have not had a lot of success without a flow hood even being extremely clean and careful. That being said if you use SAB stick to liquid culture and grain jars with injection port and you can do pretty good!
over my 4 years of growing I'll say this.
Flow hoods are a must if you are working with big bulk bags and ESPECIALLY if you are doing G2G transfers with grow bags
But after 2 years of using a SAB, I ditched it and now just do my myco work in open air with very similar if not better contam results. Obv I am still using a lot of iso and following other procedures, but the real key is turning off any fans and letting the dust settle in your room for a few hours before work. Vaccuming once a week helps too and never do work directly on the carpet as that is where the bacteria settles, have a clean desk you can spray every once in a while.
I still wear gloves and a mask and all that, but basically just work at a desk minus a SAB and no flow hood. If I had a flow hood, it'd cut back the amount of iso I have to use quite a bit but thats about it. I plan on getting on eventually, but wanted to share that even without a SAB, with the proper conditions and practices you'll do fine (most recent grow only had one jar contam out of 60.. all open air agar or g2g)
I use a sab for grain to grain transfer. I put bakers parchment paper on a formica counter top with all surfaces sprayed with alcohol. I buy 6 oz of grain spawn (on sorghum) and turn it into 6-7 quarts of grain spawn on steam sterilized millet. I have never had a contamination issue.
I make sure that everything is sprayed down and do everything without moving my hands out until everything is capped.
this seems to be a great method for that scale 👍
Bunsen burner with a propane tank way better then a SAB. Only drawback is that it is hard to work with spawn bags but everything else is fair game.
Hi Gary, thank you again for your help. I can't afford a flow hood, can you make an opening on the other side of the SAB and attach an Air Purifier pushing air towards you?
Thank you for making this well constructed and very interesting video. Would you recommend this method for innoculating substrate with grain spawn that has been fully cultivated?
Thanks for watching! It can be done but I recommend a flow hood for all processes but it can be done in a still air box
Hello Garry, I do my lab job with in my small room 3x3m. The room is quite clean, since I use UV germicide lamp and ionizer to reduce particles prior the job. Im not very comfortable with sab, do you think that working next to my Simple lab alcohol burner could reduce the risk of contamination? Many thanks in advance.
Awsome informative videos you make I'm a loyal subscriber. I a few have questions. Can a UV light be added? Would it help and? Or would UV light be damaging to mycelium.
UVC lighting is great but not for your skin or eyes, so you can use it but not when you are in front of or under the lights unless you are fully suited up & are wearing UVC block glasses (which will make it hard for you to see your finer work)
@@themyceliumnetwork thank you for your time. Love the channel
@@RayMigwans this is not my channel, feel free to drop by mine if you choose.
yes it can help to pre-sterilize the workspace, just be safe about it to not get hurt from skin or eye exposure - bleach works just as well as a pre-sterilant just wipe it off after it dries with isopropyl and that is my favorite method.
A hepa filter in the top of the box blowing down will give you a positive pressure box.
cool idea 👍
Very nice explanation lods I'm new friend 🍄 God bless you lods 👍
caring for a clean workspace and considering all air movements is better than handling any still air box. I never had issues in open air condition not even in a living room.
Hey man, awesome video. Do you not have to flame sterilize the needle?
not if it’s fresh out the package
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi thank you!!
What about blowing air into the box with a small HEPA filtered fan? Seems that could keep more stuff from coming into the box when you place your hands and jars and syringes into the box.
this could cause more
harm than good causing uncontrollable turbulence but if it’s sterile
then maybe
Found bleach to be more effective for spraying the inside of the SAB and soaking the bottom surface (I use a towel). Alcohol dries up too quickly to catch any floating particulates inside. Had most success that way, and with a mask.
this can work well yes - bleach will leave residue so that is a down side but I agree it is effective
Would you be able to remove the air filter carefully and inject through that hole....spray the connector of the filter and reattach. Rather than opening the entire lid?
For the glove box system you mentioned, I wonder if adding a flexible membrane on the side of the box to act as an air receiver/bladder might not reduce the issue of air infiltration. Cutting a third hole in the side of the box, attaching something like a grow bag to it (as long as it would have at least the same volume as the gloves you are using have), and then making sure the box air pressure is balanced when in use (the bag is not over inflated when your hands are in the gloves, and not under inflated when your hands are out of the gloves) might be a good way of doing it. The bag would probably have to be cleaned pretty thoroughly though, as it would probably be a likely source of contamination if it isnt. Something like that might be more work than it's worth compared to a normal SAB like in the video though lol.
Thanks for the video. Your content is very informative.
Just use a plastic tote that has a seal around the lid. That would almost eliminate the vacuum effect when moving around inside with the gloves.
I was thinking of putting a HEPA filter on the box somewhere so even if it lets air in, it would do it through the filter so no contam. I may try something like that soon using cheap filters.
I have a flow hood, and I only use it for agar which I almost never do anyway (I just use it for culture slants). Everything I do with LC can be done in a pretty dirty environment and I never have any contamination.
And I don't even need it for that... thanks! Never tried jar agar before!
And I can needle biopsy to isolate from the agar through the injection port(s). NOICE!
does it have to by isopropyl alcohol ? How about 70% ethanol ?
What if yoh made a SAB but cut a third hole at the back and attached a fan and hepa filter, so it blows sterile air into the box constantly? Like a flow hood but a flow box I guess? I'll try it anyway but am curious as to the thoughts of others. If anyone has tried this, please let me know how it went
Wondering what you used to cut the holes out of the sides? Coffee cans 4" seem too small. Holesaw is $$. Any tips on a simple way to cut w/o breaking the plastic? Curious what you used. Thanks! (And great explanation of how to use a SAB!)
it was the larger sized foldgers coffee can
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Got it! I ended up using a soup can as it's the same size as the 4" coffee. But I may expand it to 5" and found some great tutorials on adapting a soldering iron to hold an exacto blade to cut through plastic.
Also, I saved the 4" SAB cutout as it's 1. clear and 2. PP5 and cut it to fit inside the ring of my wide mouth mason jar - which gives me a clear lid for no pour agar! :) If it withstands PC (which it should), I now have a clear glass re-usable agar 'no-pour' container!
shouldn't u have flamed the needle before ur second draw?
HEY Gary, how do you sterilise? Whats your setup ? How long do you run for and at what temp ?
Do you lime ? Or use a pressurized or atmospheric sterilizer? If so did you build this yourself?
Would love a bubba barrel but a bit to expensive for me, looking at an atmospheric home build sterilizer and im interested in your experience with sterilising, hoping to see a vid soon, take care !
I use a bubba barrel they are worth every penny imo!
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi hi, Nice , would love a bubba Barrel, what size have you, and curious to know how you pack and how long you run it for ?
@@wande.r I will do a thorough video on that - still dialing it in but so far I love it!
You can make your own flow hood for 80$. Square desktop fan, two HEPA filters, and duct tape.
Agar tested and approved
where can I buy a hepa filter that you use ?
@@ranjanty Target is where I got mine. The filters lasted for about three months worth of use
Wow. Do you have pics of your flow hood?
Hi thanks for amazing tips... One question... I have added a syringe filter on no pour jar and injection port.. will that work as normal agar media?
it should work if everything is sealed correctly
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi thank you i wish i could share you the pic... I am new to this been trying for an year and a half still no fruits
I've been using a small alcohol burner inside of my still air box. I'm never in there long enough to start a fire and I always wait until the alcohol evaporates. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? Do tiny microplastics dissolve from the top? I'm only a week in and can't really see any contamination on anything. I've been trying to clone mushrooms from the grocery store onto plates. So far so good.
yes this can work but I avoid open flames because of the fire risk. It just takes one bad accident to cause damage but if you are careful it can work - this is how microbiologists worked before the modern innovations
After I use a spore syringe and do not use all of it how do I make sure that the specimen left will still be good later
they will be viable for years, possibly decades if stored correctly and if they came from a clean print (room temp/refrigerated out of sunlight and make sure it doesn’t freeze)
What agar recipe do you use for lions mane? I can't get it to grow worth a darn on any again.
I use MEA - it is typically wispy growth on grains it looks very faint but can colonize quickly and will thicken up in bulk substrate
Would it help (improve it) to use 80% isopropyl alcohol with 0.5% chlorhexidine mixed in? I was recommended it by my healthcare provider for the chlorhexidine's long lasting disinfecting capabilities for my skin before injecting the infusion set for my insulin pump.
Also, might it help to put a UV-C lamp inside the still air box (if you wear eye and skin protection) to kill airborn mold and bacteria before opening any sterile containers? You could turn it on and off while working, for example if you have to take your hands out of the box and put them back in. Philips has made a small tabletop lamp that would fit inside a box like this. For me, it would seem like a good compromise for the lack of a laminar flow hood. :)
yes all those are good ideas 👍
Thanks Gary, what would be your procedure to sterilise a syringe to reuse it over and over?
I have glass syringes with luer lock needles that can be autoclaved with a sterilization pouch - that is my preference, but for sharing cultures I use the plastic ones 😎❤️🍄
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Thank you. I didn't know about the sterilization pouch. I begun to sterilize my plastic syringe in jars. They resist to heat but I had some contamination I didn't had before, so I think my procedure wasn't ok. I think it would be interesting to make a video about that ;)
What are your thoughts about working under a flame (or torch, I don't know the english term)? Like if I'm in a closed room, everything is clean with iso, would you consider that technic?
yes that’s the old school method prior to flow hoods people would use the convection that’s created from a flame to protect the sample
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi okidoki! We still use this technic in biology at university since there's not enough room for all students to use only flow hood. But since it's in a real lab, it's clearly cleaner than in an appartement. Even if it's in an appartement, do you think it's okay with a flame or I should use a SAB?
Fresh from the Farm Fungi LLC how do you use the plastic tops/covers on your jars? like the grain jar one- my plastic tops melted during sterilization.
make sure they are pp4 or pp5 - it’s the type of heat resistant plastic and you can tell by the number inside the recycling triangle symbol on the lid
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi can you recemmend a place where I can order order those? almost all on amazon have 270 F limit.
I'm very new to growing mushrooms and am wondering about storing liquid culture syringes with the needle and cap. Is that sterile for long term storage, or is it better to take the needle and cap off and use a regular luer lock cap on the syringe? Will the needle cap keep contamination out of the liquid culture inside the syringe?
it can be an ok method if I do this I usually flame the needle prior to using it after long storage as an extra precaution
Best to use the luer lock caps. I've noticed when I stored mine with the needle on that they leaked a little bit. But samples didn't get contaminated. But I'm going to say that that's pretty much just luck.
Thanks Gary. Do u think its ok to place a small alcohol lamp inside for other aseptic techniques that i hv to perform?
I prefer to not use open flames but if you are safe and careful it can work well
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi thanks Gary
hi garry. how can ı grow healty liquide media ? because my tissue grow very well but when ı test it with agar plate. ı cant see the same result. where is the mistake in your opinion? thanks for sharing to you knowledge with us. ı am being thankful
Try new media preparations it could be a sensitive strain and require different nutrients or pH
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi thanks garry. what kind of nutritions do you use ?
How about using an ozonizer in the room... Would that help?
It can help but it can also damage mycelium so make sure you test in small amounts first - I have seen it help cut down trichoderma though
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi i don't know how you have the energy to reply while making on the side the most inspiring and informational channel, (and the production of fungi!) I really wish for you the best, you are an amazing human. Lots of spores will travel the Argentinian air thanks to you!
👍👍👍👍👍👊
Won't an ionizer or ultraviolet light device be a good substitute for flowhood?
no, maybe for an automated process but you need to have the technician’s health in mind.
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Ionizers are used in homes/offices and are harmless to humans. They are used to trap micro particles in the air.
Maybe you are referring to UV light though.
After ordering spores and grain, and substrate I can’t really afford an SAB rn, or an air filter. If I wipe everything down very good before inoculation, should I be ok?
it might work yes but doing it in a SAB is better and a flow hood could make it even more aseptic if done properly
I started about 4 weeks ago with spore syringes and grain and no SAB. I turn off the AC/heat, close all doors to the room, spray the air with lysol really well, disinfect the entire work space and tools with 70% isopropyl and heat the needles in between each bag. I've only had 1 bag contaminated so far, and the contam was due to a bad syringe for a different strain I was trying out. You can absolutely get started this way.
3:25 of course you pronounce "agar" the second accepted way.
Lol
Hi there!!🤓 First, thanks for sharing!. According to your Lab background experience, what do you think about using really good quality of food grade agar powder instead of lab grade one for using in plant tissue Culture 🌱? Would I expect a growing rate of contamination or a really decrease in the quality in my media if I decide to use the food grade one?? Is that big the difference?? 🤔
I only use food grade agar, never had a problem with that type of agar.
It all works well - food grade takes longer to dissolve in some cases but they both will work 👍❤️🍄
I built a beautiful flow hood but haven't used it in over ten years. It's nice when working with raw agar plates (non-peroxide) but to imply that it is a necessary piece of kit is ridiculous. It's not.
Wot size is ur sab as I'm a newbie at this
It was the biggest and clearest I could find (from target)
I saw a better way to use an SAB. It uses an unaltered box with no holes. You simply slide it off the edge of a table enough to reach up under for access via the open part hanging off counter or table edge. Less risk of contam and no holes in box. win win
cool idea yes this could work
Where did you get that little spray bottle?
I got it from my brother who said it was from a pet store in the reptile area 👍 I love the droplet dispersal on this one!
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi I ordered a few from amazon. Gonna test them out. I need a small one for inside the SAB, and then a super fine misting one for humidification of monotub.
Honey I shrunk the contamination 👍 got it
why not use a glove box with a decent filter- air may suck in out but it would be filtered vs the open holes....
this would be one step above in my opinion - to get a professional one that is 👍
Is any air purifier capable of laminar flow air?
yes - but specifically the ones designed for lab work are laminar because the currents are all unilateral and directed in a way that makes it uniform.
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi I want to use Bionaire air purifier to make laminar flow hood
I'm new to all of this but my main question is why do you need to do all of this when in nature nothing like that is needed and there is mushrooms all over the place? Like I said I'm really new to all of this so please don't nail me to the wall too hard even if my question seems rudimentary.
in nature there is a healthy biome of competing organisms and natural ecological niches and microclimates that allow for mushrooms to thrive. When cultivating them however, the mushrooms need to be isolated and kept sterile because other organisms will out compete the mushrooms and take over the substrates much faster like bacteria or yeast. In nature these organisms are controlled by checks and balances so to say but in vitro they expand rapidly too fast for the mushrooms to compete. Hope that makes sense!
Couple quick questions:
What mushroom would you recommend for micro-dosing?
Which mushroom is the easiest to grow?
I'm surprised you do not ware a mask? Our talking and breathing can place contams thru the arm holes.
A mask would help yes but I was mostly concerned about making the video and the audio this time 🍄❤️
Man I use a few drops to inoculate. An entire syringe is excessive !
more volume = faster colonization as long as it’s hydrated properly
"make no quick movements" Screws jar lid on like a maniac
maybe the only exception is closing the vessel - but probably best practice is to do it carefully and slowly yes 🙌
Good vid, but 6" is excessive unless you're Brock Lesnar.
it’s the size of the steel coffee can -
helps not to rub
$1000-2000 minimum vs. ~$300 DIY lam flow hood, kindof sounds like it's NOT worth just getting ripped off by a product with minimal competition aimed at a customer accustomed to paying exorbitant amounts for industry certification labels slapped on fundamentally simple equipment. Level up, do a simple weekend DIY project.
Back to midevil times!
louis pasteur would be proud!
Spraying an object with disinfectant is not “sterilizing” it. Please point out to your viewers that you are “disinfecting” your hands or jars/tubs, NOT sterilizing them. It is impossible to “sterilize” your hands.
you are correct
Waste of time. Save up and get a flow hood.
What I would do without a flow hood? Cry.
Honestly just turn your air off and put them in a closet this is so unnecessary
that could work as well but using more layers of protection for the mushroom culture increases the chances for success.