Voddie Baucam was a guest on Douglas Wilson's Man Ramapant last year to talk about the topic of Christian Nationalism. Doug asks Voddie: Are You A Christian Nationalist?
It's unique, that these two men, who have stood by their convictions on patriarchy, christian nationalism, and not wearing the yoke of the woke have beared the most lasting fruit of the men who had ministries from when I first converted 15 years ago (Driscoll, Chandler, Keller, ect.) I think that speaks for itself with whom the Lord is being preached faithfully.
What are some of the commenters thoughts on heathen Nationalism? Seems like we should be more worried about them than Christians. It will be their laws and policies we will be forced to keep. This phrase Christian Nationalism is just another phoney phrase to shame people into not participating in their own Nations politics. Just another label to manipulate people like Islamaphobe or homophobe. It's coming from Marxists and when people use the pulpit to shame Christians what they really are is obvious. The word Snakes comes easily to mind.
@@Tracy-Inches I'm sure he's breathing the same air as other humans. But the breath of fresh air is a saying, not to be taken literally. To Lord Jesus be the glory.
Yes they have the wisdom and rationale to say, “ infants are objects of Gods wrath”…yes that kind of breath coming out their mouth is probably the most vile and stinky
I'm a true immigrant (unfortunately I need to explain I'm a legal immigrant) and I can attest that America IS NOT racist. From my point of view, God loves America so much that he currently gave many true preachers like Voddie, McCarthur, Piper, Paul Washer, etc....
Saying that "America" is or is not racist does not mean much because "America" is not a single entity with one mind and one worldview. A better inquiry would be to find out if racism, overt or not, still exists in America. The answer to this question could easily be found in the comment section of articles in Foxnews, Newsmax, or Breitbart about one or more black people. Evidence of racism can also be equally easily found in social media groups like those affiliated with the Nation of Islam which shows that all races can be guilty of racism. This does not mean that all or even most Americans are racist but racism is still a reality in this country. Not talking about racism to combat it is as effective as not talking about sin to overcome it (racism is a form of sin after all). One should avoid the extremes of not seeing racism or seeing it everywhere. The Bible with its concept of all men made in the image of God gives us the moral foundation to overcome racism or not engage in it because racism is a direct denial of God's image in man.
I struggled with visual.. literally, started looking up what Calvinist believe to justify the whiskey.. live in metro area of Portland Oregon. I from Boise Idaho…. So yeah get extremes . This visual broke my heart. My pastor here in Portland area is a good pastor.. and he had warned us as flock living in Portland where addiction issues are huge…. He has policy no drinking for staff.. he said “ how would you feel if you called me up and were struggling with a spouse or child that was addicted and I met you at door with cocktail in my hand?” Your job as pastors is to protect the sheep.. please keep that in focus..
@@virginiaweir-hj1rtwell it says don’t be drunk - be sober minded (many aspects). So if anything affects your thinking you are drunk. More than a few sips of wine or maybe one sip of liquor. Today alcohol mix drinks are much stronger than in the time of scripture being written. So yeah really should avoid for most part and entirely can’t hurt.
@@virginiaweir-hj1rt Don’t do good things that look bad nor bad things that look good We should not be a stumbling block to brethren even if what we do is not forbidden
@@hewhohasearstohearlethimhe4284 a short youtube comment is the perfect means to damn my soul, thanks! If you really believe this, why not provide some Biblical basis?
We ought take the Gospel to the ends of the world definitely, but lets also take the true Gospel to the corner around our house, blessings to all ❤️🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
A blessing to see brothers sit down and talk together instead of taking cheap shots by way of twitter of other social media platforms. Thanks for sharing.
@@wills9392 Nah, like the dudes who weren't apostles trying to cast out demons. "We know of them, but who are thee?" WWWWWOOOOOOOOPSSSS Better yeet on outta there
Both of these men are kings of analogy. They have such a profound, god-given ability to help people understand and comprehend God's truth in comparison to reality.
@@jasonhinkle4083 ,,..If you want a compelling argument, read the Bible and learn what the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible really is. Stop listening to and praising ungodly men.
@@LuciferisJesus-mv9hp What specifically have these men said that you believe is antithetical to the truth, the gospel, and Christianity? Please explain.
@@jasonhinkle4083 ,,...It doesn't matter what they have specifically stated. The fact is they are NOT Christians. They are both the sellers of the Godless worlds counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. Their entire christianity is an unbiblical manmade fraud. Sure, like all Godless cults, they say some things that are correct as they have to. If they didnt state some Biblical truth here and there, no one would be deceived by them. They are both wolves in sheeps clothing, everything the Bible warns you not to be deceived by. They are just the representatives of the apostate church and of its antichrist christianity that the entire church sells to the lost. All the churches pastors, preachers, teachers are all frauds. I suggest you read all of 2nd Peter Ch. 2, as well as the book of Jude. (and the entire Bible) The christianity of these ungodly men and of the church is not the Christianity of the Bible. 2 Peter Chapter 2 1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2, And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3, And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
59:44 books mentioned 1. Idols for Destruction: The Conflict of Christian Faith and American Culture by Herbert Schlossberg 2. The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution by Carl R. Trueman 3. We Become What We Worship: A Biblical Theology of Idolatry by G. K. Beale 4. The Quest for Cosmic Justice by Thomas Sowell 5. The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy by Thomas Sowell 6. Fault Lines by Voddie Baucham
#ThankYou for the solid, thoughtful and illuminating discussion and Q&A. I am familiar with Jody bottom from years ago that I heard him speak at a homeschool conference in Phoenix and have followed him since but not Pastor Doug Wilson. This was very helpful to me to differentiates and coalesce Christian and nationalism without it being a presumed pejorative. Thank you again will continue to study and read the word of God and follow you for clarification to agreement in these troubling times. Hebrews 12:1,2, Psalm 139
I like the point about doing what pleases God or not. Do we want to do what pleases God as a nation or not ? That question perfectly frames the debate, and of course I say we should have laws that pleases God as a nation.
You cannot legislate pleasing God. Enforcing laws forcefully won't make a state godly. Instead, lead people to Christ through words, deeds, and compassion, rather than fixating on gaining power in a secular government system unrelated to Christianity.
@@sifx.z1524 The thing is, both OP and you can be right. You can't force people to have faith by law, but you can legislate in a way that pleases God. It's a question of what ought to be illegal. For example, God hates murder and rape, and it would be just for a Christian people to condemn those things and create laws against them as a society. Just because a law against murder won't make a person godly, it can stop a person from otherwise harmful behavior and remove those who don't think the law ought to apply to them. It is a form of loving one's neighbor to desire just laws and just punishments. If we can agree on that much, then it is a question of how we know what laws and punishments are just. As a Christian, I think God has something to say about it in Scripture what we should study and seek to apply. But if we reject God's example of civil law, what do we do? Enforce whatever seems right in our own eyes as if we are God, knowing good and evil?
@@oracleoftroy I get what you're saying, but it's best if church and state stay totally separate. Think about it: God judges us by our hearts, not by the laws we make. You speak of the 6th Commandment that our laws can handle, but they can't cover the first 5! It's better to please God by what's in our hearts than what we have enacted as laws on paper.
@@sifx.z1524 I think when we study scripture, we see that God sets up two spheres of government, one of civil government run by the city elders and appointed regional leaders and the high judge, and one of the church run by the Levites. However, _total_ separation doesn't seem to be the case. The church has a role in speaking to the evils of civil government and calling them to repent and do as God commands, and the civil government has a duty to protect the church. But the church is not the state and the state is not the church. Moreover, not all sins are crimes. Take murder. God lays out civil cases that result in civil penalties for murder. But Jesus also calls hate murder, yet we see no civil punishment. I think if one would do a proper study of scripture and the law, much of these kind of objections against God's law simply go away as scripture doesn't support it. In fact, the way to fight that kind of abuse is to go to scripture and advocate for what God has said rather than run away from scripture and put in place people who hate God and do what is right in their own eyes.
A Marxist ideal lived out of “free sex” was a very important point that Doug highlighted. How you get a Viking/Motorcycle Gang type of society versus men submitted to the sexual cycle of females and producing a healthy society 👌🏻👏🏻
“Where is this other place you are trying to emulate?”……. GREAT QUESTION! Where is the other nation you perceive as so much better, America? Which one is it exactly?
@@jakebredthauer5100 not disagreeing. Nobody wants the America of today. Leftists want their utopia, elitist establishment want China-esque. The rest of us, a previous version of America, like 125yrs ago (for me).
Thank you so much for interviewing Dr Baucham. I am incredibly thankful, fortunate, and blessed to have found his videos and interviews as His G-dly wisdom has brought me closer and deeper to our L-rd and Savior, and The Messiah, Yeshua. Regarding the state of the nation, I couldn't agree more with Dr Baucham's perspective that local community and governance come first. This is not to discount or understate the importance of federal elections, as they are so very important. But over the course of the 21st Century, I've seen how powerful and influential local elections are to citizens' day-to-day lives as the American culture and society have fractured across pronounced ideological lines. I also believe that the fabric of the nation started fraying in the 1960s and is now irreparably torn into pieces, which speaks to the importance of local community and governance. Also, the question regarding predestination (elect) salvation as it relates to abortion was an interesting one. As I thought about it, it raised other questions like, "When does one become responsible/accountable for their salvation?" and "Does predestination (elect) absolve the individual from their responsibility and accountability to ask, seek, and knock (Matthew 7:7-11)?". That led me to wonder if one's salvation and responsibility/accountability are based on age, physical/mental ability to communicate, or being introduced to God's Word, etc? Is a child who dies from abortion, or was not old enough to communicate and understand, or someone who was born with a physical/mental disability, or someone who lived on a remote Pacific island and never came into contact with G-d's Word covered by His grace and mercy? In the end, I guess that all I can do is search His Word for His wisdom, which led me to Romans 10, Romans 8, and 2 Samuel 12 (although I'm sure there are other applicable and helpful verses). Based on what I read, one's ability to hear, see, comprehend, understand, and accept or reject His Word is central to the discussion, and I presume that those who are unable to are saved by G-d's grace and mercy and are therefore predestined (elect). Finally, with the question about living in Christ in a technologically evolving world, there is only one book that you need to learn, discern, instruct, rebuke, etc and that's G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16). It is timeless and eternal (Psalm 119:89 & 160) and there is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Fundamentally, I don't see any difference between the world that Apostel Paul wrote about in the First Century and today - Adam and Eve's nature is alive and well and is still in conflict with G-d's nature. In fact, the church is in the same, if not a worse, state than the one that Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 5, and just like the church at Corinth, churches in America and across the world have invited in and embraced the culture so much so that a growing number are indistinguishable from the pagans. Foundationally, I would say that Christian's biggest vulnerability or challenge to living in Christ in this world isn't technology, the internet, mainstream media, or the devil. Our biggest and most glaring vulnerability is our abject ignorance of His Word and our failure to apply His Word to our lives every day, in every moment, and in every thought and action. Along with that is our failure to put on and live in the armor of G-d (Ephesians 6:10-18) and not take it off. That vulnerability creates our challenges and leads to sin. There's no doubt that wise men of G-d like Dr Baucham, Mr Wilson, and many others have wisdom and teaching that will be of great benefit to all Christians in their walk in Christ and that they absolutely answer Yeshua's call to feed His sheep (John 21:17). But, it does not replace G-d's Word and knowing His Word. Just like technology, the internet, and the mainstream media can be sources that ultimately attack, confuse, and deceive a Christian in their walk, technology and accessibility to other Christians views and opinions (no matter how G-dly they are) can very easily supplant and replace time spent in G-d's Word. At the end of the day, one's life and journey in Christ is a personal relationship and, just like every other relationship, the only way you get to know Him is to spend time with Him and He lives through His Word - not through someone else's word about Him - which is why immersing yourself in and meditating on His Word is foundational. Lastly, an equally important part is communing with Him every day through individual prayer in private (Luke 6 & 11). (Edited) I wanted to add a YT video from the channel "John MacArthur Sermon 2024" titled "Overcome difficulties and hardships to be with God - John Macarthur Sermon 2024" as it speaks to the topic. Thank you again for hosting and sharing your interview with Dr Baucham. Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
@@HappyPenguin75034 Thank you for the reply and for sharing John 6:39, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day". That verse is a great example of how the predestined elect are given by G-d the Father to G-d the Son (Yeshua) and it also reminds me of what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8. In particular.. Those whom G-d the Father gave to G-d the Son (Yeshua) have G-d the Holy Spirit living within them and will shed their physical bodies of death to live eternally with Him - Romans 8:9-11," 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you." For those whom G-d the Father gave to G-d the Son (Yeshua) are the Son's adopted daughters and sons in Christ who cry out His name - Romans 8:14-15, "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” Yeshua's adopted daughters and sons are of G-d the Father as they embody and live the fruit of the Spirit in their lives with their eyes affixed to His Word and on the Son - Romans 8:23, "23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies." Additionally, those who G-d the Father predestined (the elect and remnant) shine His light as they seek to live in Yeshua and in doing so demonstrate that they heard His voice and are justified in Him, and will be glorified after they shed their sinful physical body upon death - Romans 8:28-30, "28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." Finally, G-d the Father will glorify the predestined elect (and remnant) which will demonstrate that Yeshua will not lose any of the saints whom G-d the Father gave the G-d the Son. - "38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Oh, what a blessed assurance for those who continually ask, seek, and knock on His door and run the race to the very end with their eyes, hearts, minds, and spirits affixed to the cross and Yeshua's eyes while renewing their spirit every day through the Holy Spirit. Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
@@HappyPenguin75034 Thank you for the reply and for sharing John 6:39, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day". That verse is a great example of how the predestined elect are given by G-d the Father to G-d the Son (Yeshua), and it also reminds me of what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8. In particular.. Those whom G-d the Father gives to G-d the Son (Yeshua) have G-d the Holy Spirit living within them and will shed their physical bodies of death to live eternally with Him - Romans 8:9-11. For those whom G-d the Father gives to G-d the Son (Yeshua) are the Son's adopted daughters and sons in Christ who cry out His name - Romans 8:14-15. Yeshua's adopted daughters and sons are of G-d the Father as they embody and live the fruit of the Spirit in their lives with their eyes affixed to His Word and on the Son - Romans 8:23. Those who G-d the Father predestined (the elect and remnant) shine His light as they seek to live in Yeshua and in doing so demonstrate that they hear His voice, are justified in Him, and will be sanctified and glorified after they shed their sinful physical body upon death - Romans 8:28-30. Finally, G-d the Father will glorify the predestined elect (and remnant) which will demonstrate that Yeshua will not lose any of the saints whom G-d the Father gave the G-d the Son. - Romans 8:38-39. Oh, what a blessed assurance for those who continually ask, seek, and knock on His door and run the race to the very end with their eyes, hearts, minds, and spirits affixed to the cross and Yeshua's eyes while renewing their spirit every day through the Holy Spirit. Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
I really wish...that your content was two decibels louder. I often listen with earbuds at work where it's very loud and I only catch about 50% of what's being said, so even though this is totally my problem, if you could please just crank it up a notch just for me that would be great, thank you!
Are you from America? God is strong and alive here. It's just not what's broadcast to the world. 100s of millions of people are against what's going on in our country
I looked at my white undershirt and realized I failed my "whiteness" test. 😂😊😅 I've never seen anyone have white or black skin color. I'm not "white" and my race is human. Acts 17:26
It does seem unnecessary...if they were at each other's homes...and both brothers are of equal maturity...that's one thing...but those of us who have struggled with alcohol addiction...it again..in my opinion...is an unnecessary accessory to this conversation....
German viewpoint: only very few countries in the whole world are blessed to survive as Christian countries in this century, definitely NOT Europe. Love this from the German diaspora, God bless you two, America and Zambia.
- Does Baucham have a dedicated channel or podcast? I've looked for a place to listen to his collected sermons, or something like that, but I've just had to hunt and find one here and one there.
Around 46:00 I love how voddie calms the fears of persecution. The enemies of Christ are weaker and less violent now than in the past. Christians shouldn't get complacent but it's not the main concern the church faces. The devil is sly and sneaky. He is weakening the Church from the inside out.
Tiff Shuttlesworth is superior to them both on eschatology. Sorry Voddie but being a post milliniest? Your denial of the rapture? Pastor Tiff has 50 yrs of eschatology under his belt and you don't hold a candle. Eschatology is not your area of expertise.
I'm 72 and feel like I live on another planet now......the America I grew up in looks so different now....I hate all the lies and this thing called hate speech and racism....and now the woke stuff and pronouns....I don't know how to deal with it....😢
Doug is free to drink alcohol, including hard liquor. However, I question his judgment and wisdom to publicly consume hard liquor in front of an unknown and mixed public audience during a discussion on Biblical values vs worldly values. What was the purpose of that and how does he think that makes him more manly? I noticed Voddie didn’t touch his glass.
@@raskolnikov6443 Follow me. If he thinks that by publicly drinking hard liquor is a sign of his masculinity, then the reasoning would follow if he does not drink hard liquor publicly, he is displaying or possessing less masculinity. I don't know any public conservative Christian leader that would drink alcohol, let alone hard liquor publicly or on a video posted to UA-cam for millions around the world to see. Maybe you can respond to that point since that is the more serious concern, his poor judgment.
I pray for Voddie, when I think about some of the violence against Christians in Nigeria I think it is bold for Zambia to declare a Christian country. God be with Voddie and the country of Zambia.
Why do we Christian always have to compare with ungodly people to set a standard? This is more like advocating for a political gain. Let’s make all nations Christian and problem solved. The church should just continue preaching the gospel and don’t worry about what the nations do.
@@nicholasgeisler1290 absolutely not saying not to preach the gospel to all nations but nowadays we Christians feel that we need to hear that certain nation is now a Christian nation. That’s my argument. And again, real Christians shouldn’t be taking the position that having politicians calling themselves Christians will solve everything and unfortunately the more we keep playing politics in the church, the more we’re losing. Jesus will not lose but our job as the scripture says, we’re not doing it.
The church should be the conscience of the government. We are to occupy until he comes. It’s harmful to allow evil people to run amuck in government or anywhere else. You’re harming your neighbors by abdicating your responsibility to participate in all levels of society and point to Jesus. Yes, share the gospel. We can walk and chew gum.
The majority of paedobaptists don’t believe Wilson is “confessionally reformed” since he supports Federal Vision theology which has been ruled heresy by multiple conservative Presbyterian denominations. And his paedocommunion advocacy further puts him outside the bounds of the historic reformed confessions.
It is interesting to me how many people in the comments are so focused on casting judgment on these two men before they give a compliment of anything they spoke of. My only hope is that most of the negative comments are from young Christians and not so-called mature Christians. If so, I can understand why our church has such issues. God, please forgive us for judging others instead of praying for them. It shows where we lack in our faith and our walk with God. We must do better if we decide to follow Christ!
I think you can be a cultural Christian ie want to live in a place founded on Christian principles but salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ through grace and Christianity can only be spread by evangelism, not by force of law or military.
Founders ministries has a good video on this topic recently and while your first half is correct the second is not. A good example is that of the godly kings of Judah who forcefully tore down the asherah, the high places, unalived those who worshiped there. A "strong" man approach works to reset culture to a godly one. The relationship with Christ is individual, but the framework for that to happen and perpetuate can be external through a strong man approach. Works in reverse too, and our enemy uses it well.
@@JJFrance Ah yes the disingenuous strawman. Whenever I see someone write about an individual relationship with Christ, my first thought is...still holds to the old covenant . Lol.
@@EverEverOn you literally just used the Old Covenant. There is no "strong man approach", and Christian nationalism, if it wasn't obvious enough, but take a closer look at the word itself and Christian theology. It's the antichrist system. It's no surprise, though. Having dipped my feet in both, I can tell you that we have some REALLY BAD ACTORS (both in its actual meaning and as well as literal bad actors cause this whole ruse is obvious to me now) on the Orthodox Christian side of UA-cam and abroad pushing for the exact same thing. It's not a coincidence at all. I'm starting to think, as a Slav myself, that at the very least, Russian slavs are the Tribe of Dan from which the antichrist will come. I'm sure most people know that theory by now, having to do with the Danube, D(a)nieper etc. I haven't actually studied the etymology of either name and realize this honestly will remain a shot in the dark until whenever it is that we will know who the tribes are, but I am basing my hunch on vastly different reasons. So, anything else just adds. No country is Christian and you can bet your bottom dollar that not a single one truly will be, let alone multiple ones, in the likened days of Noah and actually far worse. As it is written that it will be worse and that the Earth will not have seen that amount evil in its entire existence, and never shall it be again when the New Earth and New Jerusalem are created. Entropy is as scientific a term as it is biblical. There will be no revival. There will be a great falling away. There will be no "we have to get organized because stupid is unsustainable" as Wilson said in this. Unsustainable? Lucky... I don't know what world or Gospel you are in, but when the eschaton describes an Earth that is worse than the days of Noah and we are trying to stop it with "Christian Nationalism" are we not fighting against prophecy? Are we not doing what Peter did when Christ told him "Get behind me, Satan."? Oh Jesus No! We have to fix this up right away there's no way we can let the world go down to degeneracy and- ..... oh... wait. Oops.
LOVE trumps LIBERTY. That’s the easiest way to say what the Bible teaches about being a stumbling block to others with our choices. It’s one thing to have a drink, it’s a completely different thing to flaunt this liberty for thousands to see. Romans 14:15.
Given the rather hateful legalism of many teetotalers over the last century or so, I think it is a very loving thing to model Christian self control. Too many only know how to binge or abstain and have no example to look to for properly exercising Christian liberty. I hope more good Christian men would do this and demonstrate that its the legalists who try to turn love into a jail who are in fact not following God and making a law unto themselves.
The Baptists have traditionally not consumed alcohol at all have they? I agree with above: alcohol may be consumed but not abused..after all “it’s not what goes into a man’s body that defiles him, but that which comes out”
They are just drinking casually on stage because it’s no big deal! They have first class seats at Jesus table with special permission because they please him most…Like Augustine, they are allowed to make the rules and reinvent the meanings of scripture whenever they want. 😄
Two men who claim to speak for Jesus yet don't feel any need to directly draw any of these political strategies out of His Word. But I am only 30 minutes in, if they get to an exposition of Scripture later please timestamp it below. I would like to be wrong.
Wilson: Tribalism breeds war and globalism breeds tyranny. Then proceeds to defend nationalism which has bred both war and tyranny countless times. This incoherence is what happens when you don't get your ideas from a faithful exposition of the Word.
@@mriconoclast13 nationalism can easily turn into globalism if the ideology is trying to bring a global righteousness to fight the wicked. The antichrist will be a false righteous individual that will be so deceiving that even the very elect could be deceived. The first half of the antichrist reign will be a false righteousness reign. He will mimick the Christ, this is how he could use nationalism to bring an authoritarian regime. Dark ages 2.0 along with crusades. Plausible IMO. The world is crying for a Saviour. Jesus is the only one who comes to bring true righteousness. How can we be discerning so that Satan doesn’t give Christians deception in these last days??
I have my volume at max and I'm in a quiet room and yet I struggle to hear the dialogue. It isn't my ears. Could someone at Canon Press check the audio settings and repost? I'd rather have to turn down the volume than have to read the closed caption.
@@daniel.s8126 Thanks, but I would not have made the comment if it was fine on my side. The audio can easily be boosted in the software the video was created in. Daniel, are you in charge of the production or just a random commenter trolling the comments?
So I’d like to know how students can afford to go to the college because maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to figure out how to get involved and helping in that area what’s the gist of any of that? Let me know, before my dad left for heaven He had a lot to do with growing Liberia’s children so maybe that’s something I should be doing in Zambia
The alcohol in a video like this isn’t needed. The zoom in of the pour is just poor taste. I’m not offended by Christian’s drinking. But if something like alcohol distracts people who are struggling in that sin…. I think you men should have been more sensitive to that. Sorry to anyone struggling with alcoholism who found the booze as a distraction.
@@cosmictreason2242 if you’re a Christian, why wouldn’t you try and engage in an actual conversation? Why wouldn’t you give an explanation to their concerns instead of this “you’re offended.” Womp womp sucks to suck attitude?
@@lofipuddles no point in engaging with a liar. Let him admit that he takes offense and then let's consider if anyone should change for his sensibilities
@@cosmictreason2242 then there is no point in engaging with anyone. Because every person is a liar. In John 13:35 Jesus tells us that the way people will know who his disciples are, is by the fact that they will have love for one another. I pray God reveals to you the state of your own heart. Refusing to engage in a discussion with a fellow Christian, because they have a different viewpoint as you, or as you would put it “because they’re a liar” is not loving at all, and it’s far from Christ like.
@@lofipuddles you're not interpreting scripture rightly. All liars have their part in the lake of fire. By your own standard, then, you and op will both be there. Bye then
Yeah the alcohol is a distraction and stumbling block for many Christians. I dont drink at all and was surprised voodie bacham would flaunt this. Praying it dont lead others astray. Also i felt they didnt do a good job explaining christian nationalism oh well.
The fact that there was a bottle of liquor on the table made me turn it off quickly. How is that a good idea? Don’t tell me it’s not a sin to drink alcohol. It is a stumbling block period. Shameful
It most certainly is not a sin to drink alcohol, it is a sin to be a drunkard. Two completely different things. It is exactly the same as, it is not a sin to eat food, it is a sin to be a glutton and abuse food, however.
This was quite good. The only complaint I have is that you often say "we" did such and such when we didn't do any such thing. The leftists god haters did it. Never say "we" when you mean "them". Other than that i really enjoyed this discussion. Mr. Baucham's insight was quite refreshing.
+canonpress *Christian nationalism is the subject of exceptional debate.* Christians are supposed to be Subjects o' the Sovereign LORD of Gods first, citizens of the mission field second.
*Addition:* Sha'ul Ben Azar-Yahu of Tarsus, Province of Asia, Roman Empire, explained the fundamentals of faith in his Epistle to the Assemblies o' the Called Out in the Prefecture of Galatia: "For do I seek to promote men, or GOD? Yet if I pleased men, I wouldn't be the Christ's Servant." (Galatians 1.10)
Philippians 3:20-21 NIV 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, [21] 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Yaweh is the God of all nations and peoples, He gave his son for all people because he loved the world. America is is just one nation among many and for people to assume that we are God's most loved nation is just pure ethnocentrism
Then you fit right in with so many who can’t wait to take up arms for Jesus and blast people away because they don’t want your religion down their throat. Your God must be so proud of you!
Hey Logan, I know that an online "comments" section like this one is far from being ideal. Nonetheless, I do hope that you will respectfully consider that which I am about to say... You clearly state that you identify yourself as a Christian Nationalist. In response, I would simply suggest to you that the concept of Christian Nationalism is, most definitely, unbiblical. Let me explain... First of all, I have absolutely no desire to impose personal preferences or opinions upon you. Rather, I would prefer to point you directly to God's Word, and even more specifically, to that which Jesus Himself has to say... John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” Very clear... very concise. So that while the idea itself may seem to be reasonable, noble, and/or even appropriate... the truth of the matter is, Biblically speaking, that the very words of Jesus declare that this concept of "Christian Nationalism" is clearly not a thing... and certainly nothing that we, as Christ followers, have been called to pursue in any way. Thanks, Logan. I welcome your thoughts...
@@loganross1861 Again, my personal perspective is irrelevant, Logan. However... Biblically speaking, the very concept is indefensible. The term itself, in its purest form, declares a misguided dominionism. If you believe that I'm missing something here, I want to be open. Please help me understand your position through Biblical context/evidence, not by way of feelings or opinion.
I have no problem branding our nation as having a Christian heritage. But to officially call ourselves a Christian country is only going to invite persecution. History is very clear about this. There is a radical right and they have no problem making religious laws and enforcing them with brutal force. The US needs to be a place of religious freedom.
In the 30s Nationalism was centralism..it took power from provincial government..Anti Nationalist was "decentralism": Today there is a movement towards Globalism.. So today, Nationalism is decentralism....I am a decentralist.., yes a Nationalist..
It's unique, that these two men, who have stood by their convictions on patriarchy, christian nationalism, and not wearing the yoke of the woke have beared the most lasting fruit of the men who had ministries from when I first converted 15 years ago (Driscoll, Chandler, Keller, ect.) I think that speaks for itself with whom the Lord is being preached faithfully.
Good observation
I've thought about this for a while. Praying these brothers continue and finish strong!
Ole J Mac is at 55 years just saying and Dr Lawson is 40 plus
Agreed
What are some of the commenters thoughts on heathen Nationalism? Seems like we should be more worried about them than Christians. It will be their laws and policies we will be forced to keep. This phrase Christian Nationalism is just another phoney phrase to shame people into not participating in their own Nations politics. Just another label to manipulate people like Islamaphobe or homophobe. It's coming from Marxists and when people use the pulpit to shame Christians what they really are is obvious. The word Snakes comes easily to mind.
Two men who both deserve respect for their faithful service to Jesus.
Except Wilson is a false teacher. ua-cam.com/video/vVR01OudbDA/v-deo.htmlsi=wXSPhZ9yEhmM5nwM
Curious that they can spend an hour talking about what Jesus wants yet never make any serious reference to His Word.
😢😢😮kids UK rcly hw 😢🎉
Only the Son? What about the Father?
Hypocrisy shouldn’t be celebrated or praised
When I see Doug Wilson and Voddie Baucham I click. Two of my favorite people, thanks for sharing 🤍
When you see these two fake christians, you should run the other way.
Amen. Same for James White; James, Doug Wilson, Joe Boote, and Voddie. Of course some others, but Amen!
Oh hey, i just looked at who it is.
This is ChîRhôpher Lazarus. How have You been, Sister?
Of course
@@dumisanexego1770 ,...These two are 100% frauds and are NOT Christians. Repent of your ignorance and your fake christianity, all of you!
Two men, who are sane, talking with with Godly wisdom and rationale. What breath of fresh air in today’s world.
Not sure what air you are breathing otherwise, But a great breath of Yah’s blessing is over on channel “hanging on his words”
Yah bless
@@Tracy-Inches I'm sure he's breathing the same air as other humans. But the breath of fresh air is a saying, not to be taken literally. To Lord Jesus be the glory.
Yes they have the wisdom and rationale to say, “ infants are objects of Gods wrath”…yes that kind of breath coming out their mouth is probably the most vile and stinky
You are completely deceived. These two men are NOT Christians.
@@JesusistheonetrueGod
Jesus is the Son of the One True God(YHWH)
God bless you, Voddie, from your ex-lesbian now Christian pal in the UK!
Why would a married man have a female pal?
@americandropbear5081 she's just saying she's a fan dude
Praise God
Two Godly men being mightily used by the Lord. Excellent content!
These two are not Godly men. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and they have deceived you. Reent!
And that bottle.
We need Voddie Baucham to come back and run for president
He would be treated worse than Clarence Thomas and who needs that? Plus I would miss his preaching.
So true!
President of Liberia
You must be joking.
Then we might lose a good pastor for a time.
Thank You, Lord for giving us these two men for the benefit and blessing of Your Church. May You keep and preserve them for Your glory.
Theres enough alcohol up there to preserve them for life.
I'm a true immigrant (unfortunately I need to explain I'm a legal immigrant) and I can attest that America IS NOT racist.
From my point of view, God loves America so much that he currently gave many true preachers like Voddie, McCarthur, Piper, Paul Washer, etc....
Chris Rosborough.
Saying that "America" is or is not racist does not mean much because "America" is not a single entity with one mind and one worldview. A better inquiry would be to find out if racism, overt or not, still exists in America. The answer to this question could easily be found in the comment section of articles in Foxnews, Newsmax, or Breitbart about one or more black people. Evidence of racism can also be equally easily found in social media groups like those affiliated with the Nation of Islam which shows that all races can be guilty of racism. This does not mean that all or even most Americans are racist but racism is still a reality in this country. Not talking about racism to combat it is as effective as not talking about sin to overcome it (racism is a form of sin after all). One should avoid the extremes of not seeing racism or seeing it everywhere. The Bible with its concept of all men made in the image of God gives us the moral foundation to overcome racism or not engage in it because racism is a direct denial of God's image in man.
New laws are passed every month in the South that make it hard for black people to vote.
@@markb3786 When you consider that most of the v ot ing m ac hines are fr au dul ent, that is beyond crime....
Take OFF the blinders! America is racist.
I haven't heard Voddie laugh so much in an interview as today! You can tell these brothers love each other's company!
Well that's what alcohol does.
I struggled with visual.. literally, started looking up what Calvinist believe to justify the whiskey.. live in metro area of Portland Oregon. I from Boise Idaho…. So yeah get extremes . This visual broke my heart.
My pastor here in Portland area is a good pastor.. and he had warned us as flock living in Portland where addiction issues are huge…. He has policy no drinking for staff.. he said “ how would you feel if you called me up and were struggling with a spouse or child that was addicted and I met you at door with cocktail in my hand?”
Your job as pastors is to protect the sheep.. please keep that in focus..
Show me in the Bible where it says you shouldn't drink!
@@virginiaweir-hj1rtwell it says don’t be drunk - be sober minded (many aspects). So if anything affects your thinking you are drunk. More than a few sips of wine or maybe one sip of liquor. Today alcohol mix drinks are much stronger than in the time of scripture being written. So yeah really should avoid for most part and entirely can’t hurt.
@@virginiaweir-hj1rt Don’t do good things that look bad nor bad things that look good
We should not be a stumbling block to brethren even if what we do is not forbidden
Interesting you know How Doug and Voddie should lead their flocks.....
@@henrylopez7721 we do know - God said how in the Bible. Wow.
Love these guys! Their work has blessed me greatly over the years.
Their work has only deceived you and led you into the lake of fire with them. Repent!
@@hewhohasearstohearlethimhe4284 a short youtube comment is the perfect means to damn my soul, thanks!
If you really believe this, why not provide some Biblical basis?
We ought take the Gospel to the ends of the world definitely, but lets also take the true Gospel to the corner around our house, blessings to all ❤️🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
Two of the best voices for the truth of God's Word. May God bless you both!
Two of the biggest frauds in the 100% apostate christian church.
This is the best dialogue I have seen on this topic in a while. I think it’s hard to disagree with this if you call yourself a servant of Christ.
Voddie is the best Christian apologist of our time. Praise God for his ministry!
@danielfunk7380
Then you must have never heard about Dr. James White. Voddie himself would tell you that dr. White is the best bar none.
He (Daniel) doesn't know Vocab Malone
Amen!!!
@@luboshcamber1992White😅😅😅😅😅😅 CALVINIST, so you are one also, to Respect such ism teachers! Hey, why not go with Ellen White😅
A blessing to see brothers sit down and talk together instead of taking cheap shots by way of twitter of other social media platforms. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed
Two of my favorites. I more closely align with Voddie on some things and Doug on others…but man I’m glad I have these two giants in my camp.
They both in trouble....
@@washingtonupstatetrouble? like the kind the apostles got into?
@@wills9392 Nah, like the dudes who weren't apostles trying to cast out demons. "We know of them, but who are thee?" WWWWWOOOOOOOOPSSSS Better yeet on outta there
@@xBurzurkurxhmm interesting assessment…I might agree with you on that one!
Good stuff here men! Please keep advancing the Gospel!
Pastor thanks you all. For God glory my God Blessed You and continue to use you to preach and word of God
Yes, a breath of fresh air. Truth is soothing to the soul, even though it sometimes stings a little initially.
I deeply appreciate this discussion. Thank you.
Thank you for releasing this!
Both of these men are kings of analogy. They have such a profound, god-given ability to help people understand and comprehend God's truth in comparison to reality.
These two ungodly men have nothing to do with the God or Christianity of the Bible.
@@LuciferisJesus-mv9hp Compelling argument. 🙄
@@jasonhinkle4083 ,,..If you want a compelling argument, read the Bible and learn what the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible really is. Stop listening to and praising ungodly men.
@@LuciferisJesus-mv9hp What specifically have these men said that you believe is antithetical to the truth, the gospel, and Christianity? Please explain.
@@jasonhinkle4083 ,,...It doesn't matter what they have specifically stated. The fact is they are NOT Christians. They are both the sellers of the Godless worlds counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. Their entire christianity is an unbiblical manmade fraud.
Sure, like all Godless cults, they say some things that are correct as they have to. If they didnt state some Biblical truth here and there, no one would be deceived by them. They are both wolves in sheeps clothing, everything the Bible warns you not to be deceived by.
They are just the representatives of the apostate church and of its antichrist christianity that the entire church sells to the lost. All the churches pastors, preachers, teachers are all frauds. I suggest you read all of 2nd Peter Ch. 2, as well as the book of Jude. (and the entire Bible) The christianity of these ungodly men and of the church is not the Christianity of the Bible.
2 Peter
Chapter 2
1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2, And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3, And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
Great discussion
I feel like I’m in a room w a couple of my uncles having a great conversation and I’m just listening in..
Jesus Christ is Lord and God. Amen. Bless His Name.
Awesome conversation!
59:44 books mentioned
1. Idols for Destruction: The Conflict of Christian Faith and American Culture by Herbert Schlossberg
2. The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution by Carl R. Trueman
3. We Become What We Worship: A Biblical Theology of Idolatry by G. K. Beale
4. The Quest for Cosmic Justice by Thomas Sowell
5. The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy by Thomas Sowell
6. Fault Lines by Voddie Baucham
#ThankYou for the solid, thoughtful and illuminating discussion and Q&A. I am familiar with Jody bottom from years ago that I heard him speak at a homeschool conference in Phoenix and have followed him since but not Pastor Doug Wilson. This was very helpful to me to differentiates and coalesce Christian and nationalism without it being a presumed pejorative. Thank you again will continue to study and read the word of God and follow you for clarification to agreement in these troubling times. Hebrews 12:1,2, Psalm 139
love both these guys!!
I like the point about doing what pleases God or not. Do we want to do what pleases God as a nation or not ? That question perfectly frames the debate, and of course I say we should have laws that pleases God as a nation.
You cannot legislate pleasing God. Enforcing laws forcefully won't make a state godly. Instead, lead people to Christ through words, deeds, and compassion, rather than fixating on gaining power in a secular government system unrelated to Christianity.
@@sifx.z1524 The thing is, both OP and you can be right. You can't force people to have faith by law, but you can legislate in a way that pleases God. It's a question of what ought to be illegal.
For example, God hates murder and rape, and it would be just for a Christian people to condemn those things and create laws against them as a society. Just because a law against murder won't make a person godly, it can stop a person from otherwise harmful behavior and remove those who don't think the law ought to apply to them. It is a form of loving one's neighbor to desire just laws and just punishments.
If we can agree on that much, then it is a question of how we know what laws and punishments are just. As a Christian, I think God has something to say about it in Scripture what we should study and seek to apply. But if we reject God's example of civil law, what do we do? Enforce whatever seems right in our own eyes as if we are God, knowing good and evil?
@@oracleoftroy I get what you're saying, but it's best if church and state stay totally separate. Think about it: God judges us by our hearts, not by the laws we make. You speak of the 6th Commandment that our laws can handle, but they can't cover the first 5! It's better to please God by what's in our hearts than what we have enacted as laws on paper.
@@sifx.z1524 I think when we study scripture, we see that God sets up two spheres of government, one of civil government run by the city elders and appointed regional leaders and the high judge, and one of the church run by the Levites. However, _total_ separation doesn't seem to be the case. The church has a role in speaking to the evils of civil government and calling them to repent and do as God commands, and the civil government has a duty to protect the church. But the church is not the state and the state is not the church.
Moreover, not all sins are crimes. Take murder. God lays out civil cases that result in civil penalties for murder. But Jesus also calls hate murder, yet we see no civil punishment.
I think if one would do a proper study of scripture and the law, much of these kind of objections against God's law simply go away as scripture doesn't support it. In fact, the way to fight that kind of abuse is to go to scripture and advocate for what God has said rather than run away from scripture and put in place people who hate God and do what is right in their own eyes.
Really enjoyed this conversation
Whatever brand it is within Christendom…it’s beautiful
A Marxist ideal lived out of “free sex” was a very important point that Doug highlighted.
How you get a Viking/Motorcycle Gang type of society versus men submitted to the sexual cycle of females and producing a healthy society 👌🏻👏🏻
“Where is this other place you are trying to emulate?”……. GREAT QUESTION! Where is the other nation you perceive as so much better, America? Which one is it exactly?
China, officially atheist.
America 125 years ago.
@@EverEverOn
The revolutionaries want America to be one way and the counter-revolutionaries want America to be another way.
@@jakebredthauer5100 not disagreeing. Nobody wants the America of today. Leftists want their utopia, elitist establishment want China-esque. The rest of us, a previous version of America, like 125yrs ago (for me).
So good. I need to take notes. Many great quotes
Jesus Christ is King!
I love Voddie Baucham!
Thank you so much for interviewing Dr Baucham. I am incredibly thankful, fortunate, and blessed to have found his videos and interviews as His G-dly wisdom has brought me closer and deeper to our L-rd and Savior, and The Messiah, Yeshua.
Regarding the state of the nation, I couldn't agree more with Dr Baucham's perspective that local community and governance come first. This is not to discount or understate the importance of federal elections, as they are so very important. But over the course of the 21st Century, I've seen how powerful and influential local elections are to citizens' day-to-day lives as the American culture and society have fractured across pronounced ideological lines. I also believe that the fabric of the nation started fraying in the 1960s and is now irreparably torn into pieces, which speaks to the importance of local community and governance.
Also, the question regarding predestination (elect) salvation as it relates to abortion was an interesting one. As I thought about it, it raised other questions like, "When does one become responsible/accountable for their salvation?" and "Does predestination (elect) absolve the individual from their responsibility and accountability to ask, seek, and knock (Matthew 7:7-11)?".
That led me to wonder if one's salvation and responsibility/accountability are based on age, physical/mental ability to communicate, or being introduced to God's Word, etc? Is a child who dies from abortion, or was not old enough to communicate and understand, or someone who was born with a physical/mental disability, or someone who lived on a remote Pacific island and never came into contact with G-d's Word covered by His grace and mercy?
In the end, I guess that all I can do is search His Word for His wisdom, which led me to Romans 10, Romans 8, and 2 Samuel 12 (although I'm sure there are other applicable and helpful verses). Based on what I read, one's ability to hear, see, comprehend, understand, and accept or reject His Word is central to the discussion, and I presume that those who are unable to are saved by G-d's grace and mercy and are therefore predestined (elect).
Finally, with the question about living in Christ in a technologically evolving world, there is only one book that you need to learn, discern, instruct, rebuke, etc and that's G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16). It is timeless and eternal (Psalm 119:89 & 160) and there is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Fundamentally, I don't see any difference between the world that Apostel Paul wrote about in the First Century and today - Adam and Eve's nature is alive and well and is still in conflict with G-d's nature. In fact, the church is in the same, if not a worse, state than the one that Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 5, and just like the church at Corinth, churches in America and across the world have invited in and embraced the culture so much so that a growing number are indistinguishable from the pagans.
Foundationally, I would say that Christian's biggest vulnerability or challenge to living in Christ in this world isn't technology, the internet, mainstream media, or the devil. Our biggest and most glaring vulnerability is our abject ignorance of His Word and our failure to apply His Word to our lives every day, in every moment, and in every thought and action. Along with that is our failure to put on and live in the armor of G-d (Ephesians 6:10-18) and not take it off. That vulnerability creates our challenges and leads to sin. There's no doubt that wise men of G-d like Dr Baucham, Mr Wilson, and many others have wisdom and teaching that will be of great benefit to all Christians in their walk in Christ and that they absolutely answer Yeshua's call to feed His sheep (John 21:17). But, it does not replace G-d's Word and knowing His Word.
Just like technology, the internet, and the mainstream media can be sources that ultimately attack, confuse, and deceive a Christian in their walk, technology and accessibility to other Christians views and opinions (no matter how G-dly they are) can very easily supplant and replace time spent in G-d's Word. At the end of the day, one's life and journey in Christ is a personal relationship and, just like every other relationship, the only way you get to know Him is to spend time with Him and He lives through His Word - not through someone else's word about Him - which is why immersing yourself in and meditating on His Word is foundational. Lastly, an equally important part is communing with Him every day through individual prayer in private (Luke 6 & 11).
(Edited) I wanted to add a YT video from the channel "John MacArthur Sermon 2024" titled "Overcome difficulties and hardships to be with God - John Macarthur Sermon 2024" as it speaks to the topic.
Thank you again for hosting and sharing your interview with Dr Baucham. Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
Jesus said He would not lose any given to Him
@@HappyPenguin75034 Thank you for the reply and for sharing John 6:39, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day".
That verse is a great example of how the predestined elect are given by G-d the Father to G-d the Son (Yeshua) and it also reminds me of what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8.
In particular..
Those whom G-d the Father gave to G-d the Son (Yeshua) have G-d the Holy Spirit living within them and will shed their physical bodies of death to live eternally with Him - Romans 8:9-11," 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you."
For those whom G-d the Father gave to G-d the Son (Yeshua) are the Son's adopted daughters and sons in Christ who cry out His name - Romans 8:14-15, "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.”
Yeshua's adopted daughters and sons are of G-d the Father as they embody and live the fruit of the Spirit in their lives with their eyes affixed to His Word and on the Son - Romans 8:23, "23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies."
Additionally, those who G-d the Father predestined (the elect and remnant) shine His light as they seek to live in Yeshua and in doing so demonstrate that they heard His voice and are justified in Him, and will be glorified after they shed their sinful physical body upon death - Romans 8:28-30, "28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."
Finally, G-d the Father will glorify the predestined elect (and remnant) which will demonstrate that Yeshua will not lose any of the saints whom G-d the Father gave the G-d the Son. - "38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Oh, what a blessed assurance for those who continually ask, seek, and knock on His door and run the race to the very end with their eyes, hearts, minds, and spirits affixed to the cross and Yeshua's eyes while renewing their spirit every day through the Holy Spirit.
Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
@@HappyPenguin75034 Thank you for the reply and for sharing John 6:39, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day".
That verse is a great example of how the predestined elect are given by G-d the Father to G-d the Son (Yeshua), and it also reminds me of what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8.
In particular..
Those whom G-d the Father gives to G-d the Son (Yeshua) have G-d the Holy Spirit living within them and will shed their physical bodies of death to live eternally with Him - Romans 8:9-11.
For those whom G-d the Father gives to G-d the Son (Yeshua) are the Son's adopted daughters and sons in Christ who cry out His name - Romans 8:14-15.
Yeshua's adopted daughters and sons are of G-d the Father as they embody and live the fruit of the Spirit in their lives with their eyes affixed to His Word and on the Son - Romans 8:23.
Those who G-d the Father predestined (the elect and remnant) shine His light as they seek to live in Yeshua and in doing so demonstrate that they hear His voice, are justified in Him, and will be sanctified and glorified after they shed their sinful physical body upon death - Romans 8:28-30.
Finally, G-d the Father will glorify the predestined elect (and remnant) which will demonstrate that Yeshua will not lose any of the saints whom G-d the Father gave the G-d the Son. - Romans 8:38-39.
Oh, what a blessed assurance for those who continually ask, seek, and knock on His door and run the race to the very end with their eyes, hearts, minds, and spirits affixed to the cross and Yeshua's eyes while renewing their spirit every day through the Holy Spirit.
Numbers 6:24-26 and Shalom Shalom.
Thanks for good interview!!!
I really wish...that your content was two decibels louder. I often listen with earbuds at work where it's very loud and I only catch about 50% of what's being said, so even though this is totally my problem, if you could please just crank it up a notch just for me that would be great, thank you!
Love these two Godly men ❤
Excellent! Very informative!
We shouldn't wait for things to come crashing down to organize.
Reform not revolt!
7:10
“History will record with the greatest astonishment that those who had the most to lose did the least to prevent it happening.”
All I can say is... thanks to the both of you. Beautiful talk.
The last question was the best one for that video to end on, especially with the resources they listed and with Voddie's last comments.
I needed to hear this today, because I would have thought American was just void of God.. So glad to hear your perspective
Are you from America? God is strong and alive here. It's just not what's broadcast to the world. 100s of millions of people are against what's going on in our country
@@michaelkendall1263 I've been on the dark side of life for 13 years away from God. Just really coming back.
I look forward to watching this when I am able. Whoa, now that's what I call a crossover!
I looked at my white undershirt and realized I failed my "whiteness" test. 😂😊😅 I've never seen anyone have white or black skin color. I'm not "white" and my race is human. Acts 17:26
Two of my favorite dude men on the planet. There's more gospel faithfulness in those 2 chairs than in a thousand pulpits.
You could not be more blind, lost, deceived, unsaved, and steeped in ignorance. Repent!
Thank you for sharing this. I’m reading through Jesus and the Powers which definitely recommends “just a seat at the table.”
I am listening to what you both are saying, but distracted by what your drinking on the table, is it alcohol? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong to be bothered by it yes
What if it is? Does not our Holy Bible tells us “All Things In Moderation”? I don’t understand the purpose of your question.
Ever wonder where all the names came from? What a great conversation between 2 men. Thank you
I would still like a response, from one of them, for why they felt it necessary to have hard alcohol present during their discussion.
It does seem unnecessary...if they were at each other's homes...and both brothers are of equal maturity...that's one thing...but those of us who have struggled with alcohol addiction...it again..in my opinion...is an unnecessary accessory to this conversation....
Great chanel! GOD BLESS YOU!🙏
Great interview
Really interesting !
German viewpoint: only very few countries in the whole world are blessed to survive as Christian countries in this century, definitely NOT Europe.
Love this from the German diaspora, God bless you two, America and Zambia.
25:24 wow! One of the most powerful points ever made 👏👏👏
Great conversation, but the real question is…what kind of whiskey (bourbon? Scotch? Ice tea?) are they drinking?
Henry McKenna bourbon
- Does Baucham have a dedicated channel or podcast? I've looked for a place to listen to his collected sermons, or something like that, but I've just had to hunt and find one here and one there.
He doesn't. The man's extremely busy.
Grace Family Baptist Church is the channel name.
There are channels under his name but they are people impersonating him.
Sermon Audio and Canon Press.
@@ThisGirlSaved92. That’s what I was going to say. I believe this was his church before he moved to Zambia. They have many sermons.
Hearing two Godly men have a conversation about the ridiculous culture we live in is a breath of fresh air. God bless you gentlemen
Around 46:00 I love how voddie calms the fears of persecution. The enemies of Christ are weaker and less violent now than in the past. Christians shouldn't get complacent but it's not the main concern the church faces. The devil is sly and sneaky. He is weakening the Church from the inside out.
I love Voddie and Doug
If these two men talk eschatology, then I’m done for!!!! Please consider.
Tiff Shuttlesworth is superior to them both on eschatology. Sorry Voddie but being a post milliniest? Your denial of the rapture? Pastor Tiff has 50 yrs of eschatology under his belt and you don't hold a candle. Eschatology is not your area of expertise.
I'm 72 and feel like I live on another planet now......the America I grew up in looks so different now....I hate all the lies and this thing called hate speech and racism....and now the woke stuff and pronouns....I don't know how to deal with it....😢
Doug is free to drink alcohol, including hard liquor. However, I question his judgment and wisdom to publicly consume hard liquor in front of an unknown and mixed public audience during a discussion on Biblical values vs worldly values. What was the purpose of that and how does he think that makes him more manly? I noticed Voddie didn’t touch his glass.
More manly? What?
@@raskolnikov6443 Follow me. If he thinks that by publicly drinking hard liquor is a sign of his masculinity, then the reasoning would follow if he does not drink hard liquor publicly, he is displaying or possessing less masculinity. I don't know any public conservative Christian leader that would drink alcohol, let alone hard liquor publicly or on a video posted to UA-cam for millions around the world to see. Maybe you can respond to that point since that is the more serious concern, his poor judgment.
I was wondering the same thing. Gives me pause.
can you not drink alcohol as a reformed baptist?
I was shocked to see that. Voddie likely wasn't expecting that, and no surprise he didn't indulge.
Born again, Bible believing Christian here. Everything else revolves around that. I wear no other titles.
You have a drivers license? Social Security Number? Home Address?
this was very very good i enjoyed every minute thank you
Great will be your reward in heaven!!
I pray for Voddie, when I think about some of the violence against Christians in Nigeria I think it is bold for Zambia to declare a Christian country. God be with Voddie and the country of Zambia.
Why do we Christian always have to compare with ungodly people to set a standard? This is more like advocating for a political gain. Let’s make all nations Christian and problem solved. The church should just continue preaching the gospel and don’t worry about what the nations do.
Except God's word tells us otherwise. In the great commission Jesus tells us to "teach the nations to obey all that I ha e commanded."
@@nicholasgeisler1290 absolutely not saying not to preach the gospel to all nations but nowadays we Christians feel that we need to hear that certain nation is now a Christian nation. That’s my argument. And again, real Christians shouldn’t be taking the position that having politicians calling themselves Christians will solve everything and unfortunately the more we keep playing politics in the church, the more we’re losing. Jesus will not lose but our job as the scripture says, we’re not doing it.
The church should be the conscience of the government. We are to occupy until he comes. It’s harmful to allow evil people to run amuck in government or anywhere else. You’re harming your neighbors by abdicating your responsibility to participate in all levels of society and point to Jesus. Yes, share the gospel. We can walk and chew gum.
Let’s goooooo
And all of the paedobaptists cried in the beginning when their beloved Pastor Wilson affirmed reformed baptists in being “confessionally reformed.” 😊
😆👍👍
The majority of paedobaptists don’t believe Wilson is “confessionally reformed” since he supports Federal Vision theology which has been ruled heresy by multiple conservative Presbyterian denominations. And his paedocommunion advocacy further puts him outside the bounds of the historic reformed confessions.
It is interesting to me how many people in the comments are so focused on casting judgment on these two men before they give a compliment of anything they spoke of. My only hope is that most of the negative comments are from young Christians and not so-called mature Christians. If so, I can understand why our church has such issues. God, please forgive us for judging others instead of praying for them. It shows where we lack in our faith and our walk with God. We must do better if we decide to follow Christ!
I think you can be a cultural Christian ie want to live in a place founded on Christian principles but salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ through grace and Christianity can only be spread by evangelism, not by force of law or military.
Founders ministries has a good video on this topic recently and while your first half is correct the second is not.
A good example is that of the godly kings of Judah who forcefully tore down the asherah, the high places, unalived those who worshiped there. A "strong" man approach works to reset culture to a godly one. The relationship with Christ is individual, but the framework for that to happen and perpetuate can be external through a strong man approach.
Works in reverse too, and our enemy uses it well.
@@EverEverOn I assume you believe we are still under Mosaic Covenant and not a new Covenant of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
@@JJFrance Ah yes the disingenuous strawman. Whenever I see someone write about an individual relationship with Christ, my first thought is...still holds to the old covenant . Lol.
@@EverEverOn you literally just used the Old Covenant. There is no "strong man approach", and Christian nationalism, if it wasn't obvious enough, but take a closer look at the word itself and Christian theology. It's the antichrist system. It's no surprise, though. Having dipped my feet in both, I can tell you that we have some REALLY BAD ACTORS (both in its actual meaning and as well as literal bad actors cause this whole ruse is obvious to me now) on the Orthodox Christian side of UA-cam and abroad pushing for the exact same thing. It's not a coincidence at all. I'm starting to think, as a Slav myself, that at the very least, Russian slavs are the Tribe of Dan from which the antichrist will come. I'm sure most people know that theory by now, having to do with the Danube, D(a)nieper etc. I haven't actually studied the etymology of either name and realize this honestly will remain a shot in the dark until whenever it is that we will know who the tribes are, but I am basing my hunch on vastly different reasons. So, anything else just adds.
No country is Christian and you can bet your bottom dollar that not a single one truly will be, let alone multiple ones, in the likened days of Noah and actually far worse. As it is written that it will be worse and that the Earth will not have seen that amount evil in its entire existence, and never shall it be again when the New Earth and New Jerusalem are created. Entropy is as scientific a term as it is biblical. There will be no revival. There will be a great falling away. There will be no "we have to get organized because stupid is unsustainable" as Wilson said in this. Unsustainable? Lucky... I don't know what world or Gospel you are in, but when the eschaton describes an Earth that is worse than the days of Noah and we are trying to stop it with "Christian Nationalism" are we not fighting against prophecy? Are we not doing what Peter did when Christ told him "Get behind me, Satan."? Oh Jesus No! We have to fix this up right away there's no way we can let the world go down to degeneracy and- ..... oh... wait. Oops.
LOVE trumps LIBERTY. That’s the easiest way to say what the Bible teaches about being a stumbling block to others with our choices.
It’s one thing to have a drink, it’s a completely different thing to flaunt this liberty for thousands to see. Romans 14:15.
Given the rather hateful legalism of many teetotalers over the last century or so, I think it is a very loving thing to model Christian self control. Too many only know how to binge or abstain and have no example to look to for properly exercising Christian liberty. I hope more good Christian men would do this and demonstrate that its the legalists who try to turn love into a jail who are in fact not following God and making a law unto themselves.
I HAVE QUESTION DID HE SERVED ALCOHOL TO HAVE A NICE TALK???
@cancunnowgq8323 And so? Christians can drink just not unto drunkenness. My Lord Jesus drank wine.. so stop clutching your pearls over it. 😂
The Baptists have traditionally not consumed alcohol at all have they?
I agree with above: alcohol may be consumed but not abused..after all “it’s not what goes into a man’s body that defiles him, but that which comes out”
I am a Baptist and I take rum to settle my stomach. The Bible does not say don't drink. It says don't get drunk!
They are just drinking casually on stage because it’s no big deal! They have first class seats at Jesus table with special permission because they please him most…Like Augustine, they are allowed to make the rules and reinvent the meanings of scripture whenever they want. 😄
@wonderlife62
Another crying Arminian not finding any better way how to be quarrelsome?
Two men who claim to speak for Jesus yet don't feel any need to directly draw any of these political strategies out of His Word.
But I am only 30 minutes in, if they get to an exposition of Scripture later please timestamp it below. I would like to be wrong.
Wilson: Tribalism breeds war and globalism breeds tyranny.
Then proceeds to defend nationalism which has bred both war and tyranny countless times.
This incoherence is what happens when you don't get your ideas from a faithful exposition of the Word.
@@mriconoclast13 nationalism can easily turn into globalism if the ideology is trying to bring a global righteousness to fight the wicked. The antichrist will be a false righteous individual that will be so deceiving that even the very elect could be deceived. The first half of the antichrist reign will be a false righteousness reign. He will mimick the Christ, this is how he could use nationalism to bring an authoritarian regime. Dark ages 2.0 along with crusades. Plausible IMO.
The world is crying for a Saviour. Jesus is the only one who comes to bring true righteousness. How can we be discerning so that Satan doesn’t give Christians deception in these last days??
I have my volume at max and I'm in a quiet room and yet I struggle to hear the dialogue. It isn't my ears. Could someone at Canon Press check the audio settings and repost? I'd rather have to turn down the volume than have to read the closed caption.
Audio’s fine
@@daniel.s8126 Thanks, but I would not have made the comment if it was fine on my side. The audio can easily be boosted in the software the video was created in. Daniel, are you in charge of the production or just a random commenter trolling the comments?
Great to listen to... confirms Romans, especially chapter 1 verse 32... go read it and weigh yourself !
Dang! I don't live far from Moscow. Of I knew this was happening I would have been there.
So I’d like to know how students can afford to go to the college because maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to figure out how to get involved and helping in that area what’s the gist of any of that? Let me know, before my dad left for heaven He had a lot to do with growing Liberia’s children so maybe that’s something I should be doing in Zambia
The alcohol in a video like this isn’t needed. The zoom in of the pour is just poor taste. I’m not offended by Christian’s drinking. But if something like alcohol distracts people who are struggling in that sin…. I think you men should have been more sensitive to that. Sorry to anyone struggling with alcoholism who found the booze as a distraction.
You are offended
@@cosmictreason2242 if you’re a Christian, why wouldn’t you try and engage in an actual conversation? Why wouldn’t you give an explanation to their concerns instead of this “you’re offended.” Womp womp sucks to suck attitude?
@@lofipuddles no point in engaging with a liar. Let him admit that he takes offense and then let's consider if anyone should change for his sensibilities
@@cosmictreason2242 then there is no point in engaging with anyone. Because every person is a liar. In John 13:35 Jesus tells us that the way people will know who his disciples are, is by the fact that they will have love for one another. I pray God reveals to you the state of your own heart. Refusing to engage in a discussion with a fellow Christian, because they have a different viewpoint as you, or as you would put it “because they’re a liar” is not loving at all, and it’s far from Christ like.
@@lofipuddles you're not interpreting scripture rightly. All liars have their part in the lake of fire. By your own standard, then, you and op will both be there. Bye then
Happy Father’s Day 🎉
Yeah the alcohol is a distraction and stumbling block for many Christians. I dont drink at all and was surprised voodie bacham would flaunt this. Praying it dont lead others astray. Also i felt they didnt do a good job explaining christian nationalism oh well.
All things are lawful, but not essential. As christians we don't want to be a stumbling block, a bad witness. If, Im wrong, correct me.
Doug Wilson is about promoting Doug Wilson. I'm so sad to see Voddie with him.
The fact that there was a bottle of liquor on the table made me turn it off quickly. How is that a good idea? Don’t tell me it’s not a sin to drink alcohol. It is a stumbling block period. Shameful
It's not. Drunkenness is.
What is in wine?
It most certainly is not a sin to drink alcohol, it is a sin to be a drunkard. Two completely different things. It is exactly the same as, it is not a sin to eat food, it is a sin to be a glutton and abuse food, however.
The first advertisement I see? Barack asking for $ for Biden 😂 😅
I didn’t see any ads
Angels who persevere and heard the WORD and HOSTS shared "i" AM will say, unto all will draws this SWORD WILL PERISH BY THE SWORD!
This was quite good. The only complaint I have is that you often say "we" did such and such when we didn't do any such thing. The leftists god haters did it. Never say "we" when you mean "them". Other than that i really enjoyed this discussion. Mr. Baucham's insight was quite refreshing.
When they say “we,” they are taking responsibility for the Church’s role in allowing these beliefs to take root.
Yea there them sometimes means separatist
@@LampWaters Yes. In 2nd Corinthians Paul says not to team up with nonbelievers
I don't blame the Zambians if they don't necessarily want to consider a second generation Indian a native Zambian.
Yes sir, you be right bout everything! Voodie please ! Project 2025 !
+canonpress *Christian nationalism is the subject of exceptional debate.* Christians are supposed to be Subjects o' the Sovereign LORD of Gods first, citizens of the mission field second.
*Addition:* Sha'ul Ben Azar-Yahu of Tarsus, Province of Asia, Roman Empire, explained the fundamentals of faith in his Epistle to the Assemblies o' the Called Out in the Prefecture of Galatia: "For do I seek to promote men, or GOD? Yet if I pleased men, I wouldn't be the Christ's Servant." (Galatians 1.10)
Second doesn't mean "not at all"
No one disagrees with that
Philippians 3:20-21 NIV
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, [21] 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Yaweh is the God of all nations and peoples, He gave his son for all people because he loved the world. America is is just one nation among many and for people to assume that we are God's most loved nation is just pure ethnocentrism
I’m definitely a Christian Nationalist. Not on purpose necessarily but that’s what I am, clearly.
Then you fit right in with so many who can’t wait to take up arms for Jesus and blast people away because they don’t want your religion down their throat. Your God must be so proud of you!
Hey Logan,
I know that an online "comments" section like this one is far from being ideal. Nonetheless, I do hope that you will respectfully consider that which I am about to say...
You clearly state that you identify yourself as a Christian Nationalist.
In response, I would simply suggest to you that the concept of Christian Nationalism is, most definitely, unbiblical.
Let me explain...
First of all, I have absolutely no desire to impose personal preferences or opinions upon you. Rather, I would prefer to point you directly to God's Word, and even more specifically, to that which Jesus Himself has to say...
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
Very clear... very concise.
So that while the idea itself may seem to be reasonable, noble, and/or even appropriate... the truth of the matter is, Biblically speaking, that the very words of Jesus declare that this concept of "Christian Nationalism" is clearly not a thing... and certainly nothing that we, as Christ followers, have been called to pursue in any way.
Thanks, Logan.
I welcome your thoughts...
@@josephtripoli5069
Please define Christian Nationalism , as you see it?
@@loganross1861
Again, my personal perspective is irrelevant, Logan.
However...
Biblically speaking, the very concept is indefensible. The term itself, in its purest form, declares a misguided dominionism.
If you believe that I'm missing something here, I want to be open. Please help me understand your position through Biblical context/evidence, not by way of feelings or opinion.
@@josephtripoli5069
WHAT concept is indefensible? Please define the concept you are referring to….
And how is anything I said emotional?
I have no problem branding our nation as having a Christian heritage. But to officially call ourselves a Christian country is only going to invite persecution. History is very clear about this. There is a radical right and they have no problem making religious laws and enforcing them with brutal force. The US needs to be a place of religious freedom.
Not whether but which
In the 30s Nationalism was centralism..it took power from provincial government..Anti Nationalist was "decentralism": Today there is a movement towards Globalism.. So today, Nationalism is decentralism....I am a decentralist.., yes a Nationalist..