All large entities can do this to small entities checkout the video: ua-cam.com/video/3a1lh7E3TZE/v-deo.html for the maths behind it. You can min max taking minimal damage while doing MAX damage. Any questions pop by my stream or drop them here!
ohh maybe hard to test but i'd love to see a comparison on this, just right clicking once and letting him grind in a gobbo sea and this collision damage micro. like how long it would take to kill them all/ how fast one gets kills vs the other rather than damage (because for scarbrand that matters)/ how much damage scarbrand takes doing each/which deals with the blob faster. of course i have to imagine the collision damage one beats all pretty solidly but is it worth baby sitting scarbrand with micro when you can maybe do other things instead really curious!
Chariots have a concept called collision attack but I don't think that is what we're seeing here. Rather, this looks like the eagle swoop of WH2 except amplified massively because Skarbrand has so much mass and his charge attack animation has crazy acceleration. I believe CA's term for this is impact damage. Chariots have collision attacks to make them deliver more damage when doing regular collisions with models and the difference it makes is massive, since chariots don't tend to have anywhere near the same mass big monsters do. Skarbrand, Nkari and so on don't have collision attacks, but they do have the potential for high speed and massive impacts. Same with Kholek, if one is playing that campaign and building up vassals.
@@Monochromatic_Spider A bunch of single entities do have collision attacks but yes this is impact damage that was fixed at some point. It used to do nothing for the longest time which was why cavalry felt like such a wet noodle. I think it was cavalry beta where they introduced the fix, end of WH2 lifecycle.
Yeah this has always been the case with chariots going back to RTW. And I believe the same logic applies to cavalry too, just more obvious with chariots.
@@lukesdewhurst It's really like the only way to make Slaanesh chariots viable tho. Just letting them stick in or even attacking one unit and cycle charging is inefficient. Without abusing collision damage they're kinda ass.
Also. Chariots can do insane melee damage to if you micro them through a unit. The models will swipe their weapons very quickly but they have to be side by side to actually do it. Each swipe is also area damage
I have also accidently discovered this with Taurox. Fighting a small army and he had a quite a few heal stacks so wanted to see what he could do on his own, turns out a hell of a lot more if you have him running through units like this than just to stand and fight.
@@Metalocalypse89 taurox also have really good animations ! N'kari have useless animations. Only his third one is somewhat good. But why would I let him in combat to not charge, do 2 useless attack then do one good one ? The only reason would be to drop pit of shades on top of him (wich is a viable option). But for one man doomstack, do like dis vid).
I found out about this from another video a few weeks back and it made things a lot easier (works best if youre targeting ranged units with melee in between them). What i was doing before was just taking skarbrand and placing him at the top of an incline...then when the enemy was coming after him (after aggroing them with this breath attack) i would just run (not attack) through them downhill and because of the collision and fall damage, they would just all die. i was doing that over and over until they all broke...this is how i cleared up the 8 dwarven armies that spawned with the dwarf crisis near thorek's capital. good cheese 👍
I learned this with lizard man units in Warhammer two. I'm glad your sharing the knowledge! Fun fact, if you time it right, you can basically continuously charge into AND out of units in a circular pattern. Second favorite thing to do after lining up 20 engines of the gods laser show
@@a7xincauto655 The charge is meh, but he's big and fast enough that he can just run through a unit of infantry and toss models away. And if there's any kind of incline for them to fall down then the fall damage kills the entities.
@@a7xincauto655 The problem is, he actually does massive damage when charged from the back or side. But even bigger problem is, he starts his animation way too early and picks of like one model.
Charging units in general have this problem where their strength is their charge, but instead of charging through a unit it's like most of them hit the emergency break and only hit the first couple of units. The biggest offender of this I think gotta be the Stonehorn. I thought that unit was complete trash compared to other large monster units until I learned to charge the units behind the target.
This is part of the reason why my Totalwar Warhammer enjoyment stopped with the second installment. It was clear they were not going to fix some of the weird stuff in the game. It's not hard to play around this. But it should not be a thing. The fact that they are happily pushing out DLC instead of fixing bugs is annoying and behavior I can not support.
This works even better with N'kari. And there's something about N'kari that allows him to damage shattered units by running through them with a normal movement order. For regular units, mammoths are absolute kings of this. It's disgusting what you can do with a planned charge with a mammoth. Warsphinxes as well.
This explains so much when you think about charge animations as well, the minotaur infantry get so much contact damage with their rolling dive animations based on this concept. It's the new version of cycle charging, but without the charging lol..... I'll head out now.....
I bet Grom would lokey benefit from this greatly as well, the fact that he can attack while moving as well as having his disgusting speed and charge bonus
Chariot tactics with monsters, it took me longer to figure this out than I care to admit. I tend to like the more durable ones where I can forget them for a bit longer.
I never used charges like that, that's so good. I know you can kill smaller entities with fall damage if you charge down a slope at them. Charging through them like in the video not only works everywhere but the large entities actually get the kills!
I don't see the point in mechanics like these. This is more like abusing knowledge of the engine than rewarding strategic play, similar to how I see many tabletop players complaining that 40k is devolving into "aha, gotchya" moments rather than using the importance of strategic positioning. Shouldn't a natural counter to large units be trapping them with halberds and wearing them down with ranged fire? This seems to defeat the purpose of that, throwing what I thought would be intended balance off scale. In multiplayer, this seems especially disingenuous to me because players will be losing, and don't know how or why and a game that can't teach a player through a loss is in my opinion the pinnacle of a bad mechanic. TW games have always been full of questionable design decisions to me, so I don't really know why I'm complaining now but I can't agree with what CA is doing here. Maybe an overreaction but I really hate "aha, gotchya" moments, this seems like that to me.
I gotta agree - they should just make large monsters and chariots automatically "bully through" their targeted unit and then turn around to do it again. The way it works now introduces a level of micro that kinda goes against the scale of the game imo.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was their solution to fixing chariots when they were bugged. Collision damage. Single units differently aren't made to be used like that. I'll stick to using them how they are supposed to be played and leave this kind of stuff to chariots, which this is supposed to be for.
I am interested in knowing how you believe single entities are meant to be played? Typically, I have my single entities go for other single entities before helping my other units out. Of course, mount options make a different too. This helped me get more value out of the cost of the unit. Especially, with a legendary lord. Fight a battle and let them fight the lords or heroes, they’ll get way more gold value quicker than fighting high number units. If I want to get rid of elite troops and playing a faction with no range power, a single entity unit can tie up a bunch of units then dump a bombardment spell or other magic to delete those enemy units.
@@emanuelalfred1565 I just meant that I order them to attack what I want them to attack and not the units behind the one I'm wanting to damage. That's all
@@seriouswall1173 oh got you. Yeah, micro of a SEU like that can become tedious and I don’t enjoy that. I just pick my fights carefully. I did test this method and I was able to rack up a lot of kills. I used Hellebron against 3 stacks of marauders and a chieftain. She did take a fair bit of damage though. I found I took less damage with quick charges through one unit then circling back around. It just takes forever to get rid of those 3 units plus the general like that. However, she had a more health left with this method. I also noticed she does a little damage by just pulling through a unit without attacking it directly on her blood caldron
Khemrian warsphinxes are great for this and unsurprisingly stonehorns are probably the best for it. If properly lined up a stonehorn can one shot a unit of infanty using this method
They should simply add this kind of charges of big entities into small entities. Like they would automatically use their big bodies to charge around and not getting stacked and killing like 2-3 soldier per aa.
@@muhammadsaduddin308 The collision attack on chariots will trigger at low speeds, so they will still do damage, but of course the chariots lack the mass of Skarbrand, so they'll easily get stuck in that situation. One thing to note, chariots do need to move to collide with enemies and do damage. If they get totally stuck then they stop moving. In my experience, the easiest chariots to play around and get the hang of things with are chaos lords and exalted heroes of Nurgle on chariots. Put points into melee defense, then buff damage.
I think the same thing is for taurox and the gore bulls. I made a doom stack of them and they absolutely delete multiple units in a single charge but you have to target them differently similar to skarbrand here
I play him almost identically to how i play carstein. My army is to keep their army distracted and keep him safe to kill all the enemy single entities. Starting with their lords.
i cant manage to make it work consistently. sometimes it just does an attack animation. sometimes it does enter charge animation and tries to walk through units, sometimes it just gets stuck .etc sometimes even just a movement command beyond the unit makes the SEM do massive charge damage - but this rarely ever actually happens. its so extremely inconsistent, chariots, cav, and SEMS would be so obscenely OP if this worked consistently, but no, its a chaff spam meta - which should be the most vulnerable to this strategy.
Yeah I reckon this is a much much better way of using Skarbrand because just charging him into a blob of units does nothing really for him. Since if you do that Skarbrand will just get bogged down and suffer tons of attrition damage because of how big he is. Yeah sure he has a lot of armor and a good amount of resistances but he has a massive hitbox which makes him uniquely vulnerable to blobs of infantry.
You know what"s worse in knowing this" Chariot heros can attack when moving. So you can milk out more damage on charges then get free hits as it leaves.
I agree with the Lord being the Lord and having a penalty if not on the field. I don't agree entirely with your in summon idea where they rout purely from a balance aspect as thematically I agree they should run off the map 1st but if you make them do that it could make the Deamons and Undead stronger as they will just disintegrate and go into the pool instantly. I think maybe they should add a timer which I think you have said before. So have it so they have to have been out of combat and not taken damage for X amount of time to stop people unsummoning in the way you me tioned but having a delay applied each time they take damage or are unable to unsummon if an enemy is within a certain radius could help stop unsummon cheese.
N'kari has definitely a harder time than skarbrand doing this though since he is too fast, I found that Kholek is pretty much the same as skarbrand for the collision damage, when combined with the banner of switfness they become stupidly op because it buffs the deceleration and acceleration of the charge by 200% ignoring the mass of any infantry unit :p
So does it work even if you just click behind the unit and move through it or do you need to click on enemy unit behind so the game knows your unit is charging? I am asking because I just clicked behind the units when I played Settra with his chariot and he did the "charge damage" to all units he collided with but it seemed not as high as it should be stat wise, so maybe this was the problem?
Funny,I always try to target unit behind other unit since watching Human Boy YesYes's Video show how Skarbrand surf skink and that isn't just Skarbrand but for any unit that have decent mass for massive charge damage
What the heck I tried this yesterday evening, and it changed everything Skarbrand got over 200 kills within few minutes by doing it.... hoooow?! I knew about N'kari zooming down the hill to knock everyone down but this is another level.
That's the thing that bugs me with monsters, like they are huge, why would they stand still and swing their arms, there should be a way to make them cycle charge infantry non stop
Lol hell yeah. Im playing as Archaon now, confederate Kholek with whopping 12500 mass. Its so funny seeing him just absolutely pummel infantry into the ground. Make a good run with him like you did with Skarbrand and the amount of kills will be off the charts.
How come when I try the same thing, instead he just walks into the enemies and gets stopped, before dragging one enemy away with him and never disengaging?
I believe charge bonus is only applied to successful attacks during a small window after charging.. Collision damage calculated by both units mass and speed. May be different in WH3 than it was in 2 tho.
Isn't this what ppl were doing with Sarthorael the Everwatcher all the way back in TW Warhammer 1 multiplayer? I think the meta was to bounce him around charging at different units.
Problem is that base dis for charge it's very low. You need two rigiments almost hugging for it to work. Made a mod that mages charge is above 5m, and within 80, and increase amount of units that can take collision dmg at a time. It makes robots concept show extremely, and it is awesome. But vanilla you have only like a 20m window you need quote some distance think ours 20m default for the charge to be used and you need to be very close first, think it is 40m. Sip it is excessively hard to make Work in anything but vs easier ai. . And from a pro perspective it drains insane amount of vigor, so
@@Battleseyttv Yeah, and Rome 2 was (and probably is) a famously poor game. There was once a time that the mechanics, at the real micro level, were what created the overal tactics in a total war game. The way individuals within a unity would interact with each other was the basis of the game. Engine change and a desire to make stuff look cool changed that. Since then you really can't zoom in without being repulsed. But, importantly. These small interactions would actually determine broad tactics within the game. Because it was all about actual entities connecting with each other. This created an ebb and flow to how battle lines would move around. It was sick. Sadly, the warscape engine wrecked it. Mind you, it's a trip going back to medieval 2.
This is so stupid CA. I shouldnt have to target a unit BEHIND another unit to do the most possible damage with my monsters. Holy cow what a dumb, hidden, mechanic.
Shouldn't units that can charge be smart enough to do the same damage as commanding them to run through? This is just another example of bad mechanis of the game.
Yeah I've always hated how if you click behind a unti with cavalry they do zero damage on the charge through because you didn't directly click them. Getting a stampede of 60 horses thrown at you at full speed should do damage no matter what
Is this viable with Dread Saurians too? I know the way they bounce into armies before charging definitely squashes a lot of enemies but if I can just walk through them Lizardmen are gonna be a breeze now lmao
All large entities can do this to small entities checkout the video: ua-cam.com/video/3a1lh7E3TZE/v-deo.html for the maths behind it. You can min max taking minimal damage while doing MAX damage.
Any questions pop by my stream or drop them here!
Should we be doing this with chariots?
@@Jamesy582 Yeah anything larger can do this
ohh maybe hard to test but i'd love to see a comparison on this, just right clicking once and letting him grind in a gobbo sea and this collision damage micro.
like how long it would take to kill them all/ how fast one gets kills vs the other rather than damage (because for scarbrand that matters)/ how much damage scarbrand takes doing each/which deals with the blob faster.
of course i have to imagine the collision damage one beats all pretty solidly but is it worth baby sitting scarbrand with micro when you can maybe do other things instead
really curious!
Chariots have a concept called collision attack but I don't think that is what we're seeing here. Rather, this looks like the eagle swoop of WH2 except amplified massively because Skarbrand has so much mass and his charge attack animation has crazy acceleration. I believe CA's term for this is impact damage.
Chariots have collision attacks to make them deliver more damage when doing regular collisions with models and the difference it makes is massive, since chariots don't tend to have anywhere near the same mass big monsters do. Skarbrand, Nkari and so on don't have collision attacks, but they do have the potential for high speed and massive impacts. Same with Kholek, if one is playing that campaign and building up vassals.
@@Monochromatic_Spider A bunch of single entities do have collision attacks but yes this is impact damage that was fixed at some point. It used to do nothing for the longest time which was why cavalry felt like such a wet noodle. I think it was cavalry beta where they introduced the fix, end of WH2 lifecycle.
This is something you need to do with chariots too, the collision damage they do is insane compared to their regular charge bonus.
Yeah this has always been the case with chariots going back to RTW. And I believe the same logic applies to cavalry too, just more obvious with chariots.
Who can be arsed though 😅
@@lukesdewhurst Need some coop play for that shit. Otherwise yeah. Too much micro.
@@lukesdewhurst It's really like the only way to make Slaanesh chariots viable tho. Just letting them stick in or even attacking one unit and cycle charging is inefficient. Without abusing collision damage they're kinda ass.
Also. Chariots can do insane melee damage to if you micro them through a unit. The models will swipe their weapons very quickly but they have to be side by side to actually do it. Each swipe is also area damage
Same with N'kari. His charges into units are absolutely horrible (he pics off like one entity of an entire unit)
I have also accidently discovered this with Taurox. Fighting a small army and he had a quite a few heal stacks so wanted to see what he could do on his own, turns out a hell of a lot more if you have him running through units like this than just to stand and fight.
@@Metalocalypse89 taurox also have really good animations ! N'kari have useless animations. Only his third one is somewhat good. But why would I let him in combat to not charge, do 2 useless attack then do one good one ? The only reason would be to drop pit of shades on top of him (wich is a viable option). But for one man doomstack, do like dis vid).
can suneater do that?
@@slymarbo4868 Yup any large entity can do so
@@Glowtrey N'kari's animations are good against single entities - he eats lords and heroes like crazy
I found out about this from another video a few weeks back and it made things a lot easier (works best if youre targeting ranged units with melee in between them). What i was doing before was just taking skarbrand and placing him at the top of an incline...then when the enemy was coming after him (after aggroing them with this breath attack) i would just run (not attack) through them downhill and because of the collision and fall damage, they would just all die. i was doing that over and over until they all broke...this is how i cleared up the 8 dwarven armies that spawned with the dwarf crisis near thorek's capital. good cheese 👍
All right this looks actually huge. My problem with Scarbrand was that he can't deal AOE damage but now...
I need to test this, thank you!
He's always been able to do massive AOE, just gotta know the secret tech ;) and you're more than welcome buddy.
N'Kari is even crazier since he goes zoom zoom
Also seems to only work on non-braced units from my experience
Bracing increases mass for infantry by a lot so impact damage decreases massively.
I know I am late to this video but finding this has changed how I use these units and the damage difference is insane. Thanks friend!
I learned this with lizard man units in Warhammer two. I'm glad your sharing the knowledge! Fun fact, if you time it right, you can basically continuously charge into AND out of units in a circular pattern. Second favorite thing to do after lining up 20 engines of the gods laser show
Blessed carnosaur with a banner of swiftness equipped makes for a hilarious chariot
Charge is broken in a lot of unit because of this : they stop and do an attack animation before doing collision dommage
n'kari s charge is one of the most underwhelming things ive seen in videogame history
@@a7xincauto655 The charge is meh, but he's big and fast enough that he can just run through a unit of infantry and toss models away. And if there's any kind of incline for them to fall down then the fall damage kills the entities.
@@a7xincauto655 The problem is, he actually does massive damage when charged from the back or side. But even bigger problem is, he starts his animation way too early and picks of like one model.
@@chaotix7275 yep. Its as if he hits an invisible wall before crashing into an unit. 6m tall demon that only hits one model. Like wtf bro...
SE's are meant to be cut down with halberds and black power blasts.
Charging units in general have this problem where their strength is their charge, but instead of charging through a unit it's like most of them hit the emergency break and only hit the first couple of units.
The biggest offender of this I think gotta be the Stonehorn. I thought that unit was complete trash compared to other large monster units until I learned to charge the units behind the target.
If you have good cavalry with charge like shock cav they can charge through but it needs to be a *really* good one
This is part of the reason why my Totalwar Warhammer enjoyment stopped with the second installment. It was clear they were not going to fix some of the weird stuff in the game. It's not hard to play around this. But it should not be a thing. The fact that they are happily pushing out DLC instead of fixing bugs is annoying and behavior I can not support.
I’ve tried this with an ogre hunter mounted on a stone horn. Absolutely devastating results due to the long charge animation.
This works even better with N'kari. And there's something about N'kari that allows him to damage shattered units by running through them with a normal movement order. For regular units, mammoths are absolute kings of this. It's disgusting what you can do with a planned charge with a mammoth. Warsphinxes as well.
This made me realize the hidden potential of carnosaurs as not only anti-large duelists, but as anti-infantry quasi-chariots
This explains so much when you think about charge animations as well, the minotaur infantry get so much contact damage with their rolling dive animations based on this concept.
It's the new version of cycle charging, but without the charging lol.....
I'll head out now.....
I bet Grom would lokey benefit from this greatly as well, the fact that he can attack while moving as well as having his disgusting speed and charge bonus
Stonehorn are absolute bonkers at this. Watching them clear waves of infantry is just so satisfying.
Chariot tactics with monsters, it took me longer to figure this out than I care to admit. I tend to like the more durable ones where I can forget them for a bit longer.
As a historical total war fan, this is how I've been using war elephants and chariots since Rome total war
Basically how elephants are used in every historical CA game with them.
Learned this with chariots. Would get mad because they would just get stuck and then get destroyed learned they had to be micromanaged a bit more.
yea i learnt this myself near the end of tww2 and it really opened my eyes about how insanely powerful sems can be when used correctly.
i remember troy having a similar thing with chariots where if you move em through infantry they just delete them
this little trick also works with some other units, lords, and even heroes I've found
I never used charges like that, that's so good. I know you can kill smaller entities with fall damage if you charge down a slope at them. Charging through them like in the video not only works everywhere but the large entities actually get the kills!
I don't see the point in mechanics like these. This is more like abusing knowledge of the engine than rewarding strategic play, similar to how I see many tabletop players complaining that 40k is devolving into "aha, gotchya" moments rather than using the importance of strategic positioning. Shouldn't a natural counter to large units be trapping them with halberds and wearing them down with ranged fire? This seems to defeat the purpose of that, throwing what I thought would be intended balance off scale. In multiplayer, this seems especially disingenuous to me because players will be losing, and don't know how or why and a game that can't teach a player through a loss is in my opinion the pinnacle of a bad mechanic. TW games have always been full of questionable design decisions to me, so I don't really know why I'm complaining now but I can't agree with what CA is doing here. Maybe an overreaction but I really hate "aha, gotchya" moments, this seems like that to me.
I was doing something similar with Chaos Giants. But mainly so I could leave them in a crowd and get good value.
I gotta agree - they should just make large monsters and chariots automatically "bully through" their targeted unit and then turn around to do it again. The way it works now introduces a level of micro that kinda goes against the scale of the game imo.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was their solution to fixing chariots when they were bugged. Collision damage. Single units differently aren't made to be used like that.
I'll stick to using them how they are supposed to be played and leave this kind of stuff to chariots, which this is supposed to be for.
I am interested in knowing how you believe single entities are meant to be played?
Typically, I have my single entities go for other single entities before helping my other units out. Of course, mount options make a different too. This helped me get more value out of the cost of the unit. Especially, with a legendary lord. Fight a battle and let them fight the lords or heroes, they’ll get way more gold value quicker than fighting high number units. If I want to get rid of elite troops and playing a faction with no range power, a single entity unit can tie up a bunch of units then dump a bombardment spell or other magic to delete those enemy units.
@@emanuelalfred1565 I just meant that I order them to attack what I want them to attack and not the units behind the one I'm wanting to damage. That's all
@@seriouswall1173 oh got you. Yeah, micro of a SEU like that can become tedious and I don’t enjoy that. I just pick my fights carefully. I did test this method and I was able to rack up a lot of kills.
I used Hellebron against 3 stacks of marauders and a chieftain. She did take a fair bit of damage though. I found I took less damage with quick charges through one unit then circling back around. It just takes forever to get rid of those 3 units plus the general like that. However, she had a more health left with this method. I also noticed she does a little damage by just pulling through a unit without attacking it directly on her blood caldron
These hooves are made for stompin'.
I wonder if we’ll see this tomorrow in the tournament.
If I played this I’d use it!
This works with even "smaller" large units like skaven chieftains when mounted
Khemrian warsphinxes are great for this and unsurprisingly stonehorns are probably the best for it. If properly lined up a stonehorn can one shot a unit of infanty using this method
Bold or you to assume I have any control over Khornes most and least favorite child.
They should simply add this kind of charges of big entities into small entities. Like they would automatically use their big bodies to charge around and not getting stacked and killing like 2-3 soldier per aa.
So what you are saying is: Skarbrand is a chariot? Got it
What chariot should be, instead charging then stuck inside the blob couldn't do anything
Not really. Chariots can do ridiculous damage with small collisions. Skarbrand needs speed to do it.
@@Monochromatic_Spider is it? I always get stuck using chariot
@@muhammadsaduddin308 The collision attack on chariots will trigger at low speeds, so they will still do damage, but of course the chariots lack the mass of Skarbrand, so they'll easily get stuck in that situation.
One thing to note, chariots do need to move to collide with enemies and do damage. If they get totally stuck then they stop moving.
In my experience, the easiest chariots to play around and get the hang of things with are chaos lords and exalted heroes of Nurgle on chariots. Put points into melee defense, then buff damage.
virgin cycle charge vs chad right click and watch
1500hrs of Warhammer TW and i had no darn clue. :'D
Thanks!
I think the same thing is for taurox and the gore bulls. I made a doom stack of them and they absolutely delete multiple units in a single charge but you have to target them differently similar to skarbrand here
So if there's a top 10 list of trample-hit and run legendary lord, Skarbrand would be 2nd, just right after Grom ?
skarbrand = giant chariot, got it
I play him almost identically to how i play carstein. My army is to keep their army distracted and keep him safe to kill all the enemy single entities. Starting with their lords.
Hell yeah, brother.
i cant manage to make it work consistently. sometimes it just does an attack animation. sometimes it does enter charge animation and tries to walk through units, sometimes it just gets stuck .etc sometimes even just a movement command beyond the unit makes the SEM do massive charge damage - but this rarely ever actually happens. its so extremely inconsistent, chariots, cav, and SEMS would be so obscenely OP if this worked consistently, but no, its a chaff spam meta - which should be the most vulnerable to this strategy.
Yeah I reckon this is a much much better way of using Skarbrand because just charging him into a blob of units does nothing really for him. Since if you do that Skarbrand will just get bogged down and suffer tons of attrition damage because of how big he is. Yeah sure he has a lot of armor and a good amount of resistances but he has a massive hitbox which makes him uniquely vulnerable to blobs of infantry.
Yeah his weapon strength is best used at deleting single entities and lords.
Another tip: You can open the options menu by pressing "ESC" on your keyboard.
You know what"s worse in knowing this" Chariot heros can attack when moving. So you can milk out more damage on charges then get free hits as it leaves.
every single charge order comes at a huge fatigue cost, just keep that in mind
Hellflayers, my beloved
Yeah. This also works with Chariots and Cav.
Cav is just bit difficult to pull out, so you usually only do it with Chariots.
Rediscovered cycle charging
That's also the way to play Slaughterhorns or Mammoths
Ain't nothin gonna break my stride ain't nothing gonna slooow me down oh no I got keep on movin
Any big ground lord or monster with high speed can do this well. Works best with units that have a longer charge animation.
Mammoths for norsca have always been like this, I don't think anyone really noticed and this hasn't been patched
Like a walking wind spell
I agree with the Lord being the Lord and having a penalty if not on the field. I don't agree entirely with your in summon idea where they rout purely from a balance aspect as thematically I agree they should run off the map 1st but if you make them do that it could make the Deamons and Undead stronger as they will just disintegrate and go into the pool instantly. I think maybe they should add a timer which I think you have said before. So have it so they have to have been out of combat and not taken damage for X amount of time to stop people unsummoning in the way you me tioned but having a delay applied each time they take damage or are unable to unsummon if an enemy is within a certain radius could help stop unsummon cheese.
Skarbrand is a chariot unit now
N'kari has definitely a harder time than skarbrand doing this though since he is too fast, I found that Kholek is pretty much the same as skarbrand for the collision damage, when combined with the banner of switfness they become stupidly op because it buffs the deceleration and acceleration of the charge by 200% ignoring the mass of any infantry unit :p
So the title should be "You're Using Large Single Entities Wrong."
L units should always attempt to charge through the unit they are attacking IMO
So does it work even if you just click behind the unit and move through it or do you need to click on enemy unit behind so the game knows your unit is charging? I am asking because I just clicked behind the units when I played Settra with his chariot and he did the "charge damage" to all units he collided with but it seemed not as high as it should be stat wise, so maybe this was the problem?
Yeah I think that's the case, having to charge another unit
Great video, thank you for posting it.
ye did this so often that when freinds played multi they would get mad at it
Funny,I always try to target unit behind other unit since watching Human Boy YesYes's Video show how Skarbrand surf skink
and that isn't just Skarbrand but for any unit that have decent mass for massive charge damage
Basically you have to use him as a chariot.
I suppose this might work for some monstrous cavalry too?
What the heck I tried this yesterday evening, and it changed everything Skarbrand got over 200 kills within few minutes by doing it.... hoooow?! I knew about N'kari zooming down the hill to knock everyone down but this is another level.
That's awesome! Glad you were able to use the mechanic!
That's the thing that bugs me with monsters, like they are huge, why would they stand still and swing their arms, there should be a way to make them cycle charge infantry non stop
Yes, should be a setting where chariots and the like will continually try to keep moving and get a good angle on the unit you select
Lol hell yeah. Im playing as Archaon now, confederate Kholek with whopping 12500 mass. Its so funny seeing him just absolutely pummel infantry into the ground. Make a good run with him like you did with Skarbrand and the amount of kills will be off the charts.
This is the same with Grom too.
I knew this worked for cavalry, but I'm surprised it works for Skabby boy too.
SKARBRAND HATES PLAYERS WHO ARE UNAWARE OF HIS SUBTLETIES!
I wonder if this technique could make greasus a better fighter.
How come when I try the same thing, instead he just walks into the enemies and gets stopped, before dragging one enemy away with him and never disengaging?
Does increasing his charge bonus have an effect on the damage he deals doing this?
I believe charge bonus is only applied to successful attacks during a small window after charging.. Collision damage calculated by both units mass and speed.
May be different in WH3 than it was in 2 tho.
Isn't this what ppl were doing with Sarthorael the Everwatcher all the way back in TW Warhammer 1 multiplayer? I think the meta was to bounce him around charging at different units.
Collision damage didn't properly exist in Warhammer1 it was introduced in Wahammer2 and refined in 3
Problem is that base dis for charge it's very low. You need two rigiments almost hugging for it to work.
Made a mod that mages charge is above 5m, and within 80, and increase amount of units that can take collision dmg at a time. It makes robots concept show extremely, and it is awesome.
But vanilla you have only like a 20m window you need quote some distance think ours 20m default for the charge to be used and you need to be very close first, think it is 40m.
Sip it is excessively hard to make Work in anything but vs easier ai.
.
And from a pro perspective it drains insane amount of vigor, so
whats your hardware my friend? Are you playing in 4K? Your game looks stunning.
Someone send this to the Spiffit Britt
It is really sad to see what happened to my favorite game series.
How come? This mechanic has existed since Rome 2
@@Battleseyttv Yeah, and Rome 2 was (and probably is) a famously poor game.
There was once a time that the mechanics, at the real micro level, were what created the overal tactics in a total war game. The way individuals within a unity would interact with each other was the basis of the game. Engine change and a desire to make stuff look cool changed that. Since then you really can't zoom in without being repulsed.
But, importantly. These small interactions would actually determine broad tactics within the game. Because it was all about actual entities connecting with each other. This created an ebb and flow to how battle lines would move around. It was sick.
Sadly, the warscape engine wrecked it.
Mind you, it's a trip going back to medieval 2.
Have been doing this since total war Rome buddy, charging praetorians and making them Just run through enemies does better than normal fighting
Whats this colour grading. Its so neon
This is so stupid CA. I shouldnt have to target a unit BEHIND another unit to do the most possible damage with my monsters. Holy cow what a dumb, hidden, mechanic.
What stat is more important for this
Speed or
Charge bonus ?
Because I don’t think you can do it with a slow unit like treeman right?
Will this work with a varghulf or any vampire units?
is not digusting damage to goblins. You spit at goblins and they die.
so basically single entity monsters are chariots/cav
Shouldn't units that can charge be smart enough to do the same damage as commanding them to run through? This is just another example of bad mechanis of the game.
Yeah I've always hated how if you click behind a unti with cavalry they do zero damage on the charge through because you didn't directly click them.
Getting a stampede of 60 horses thrown at you at full speed should do damage no matter what
Isn't it actually unit mass that matters here? But yeah this game is dumb, so many units that don't work well without being micro managed
Pretty exploity though. Like it's a single player game what's the point in winning with an exploit.
Is this viable with Dread Saurians too? I know the way they bounce into armies before charging definitely squashes a lot of enemies but if I can just walk through them Lizardmen are gonna be a breeze now lmao
Surely Kholek must be the best at this, right? With insane mass from vassals?
I am unable to micro this well with any units :(
Does this work with skullcrushers?😊
You said that this works with large entities such as Skarbrand. Foes this work with the Kislev Elemental Bear and the Cathayan Terracotta Sentinel?
Yup! Checkout my collision damage video for further details ❤️
Collision damage
Warhammer players discover cycle charging (2023)
So treat them like chariots in rome 2?