Why 2 stroke for hard enduro!🙀 The #1 reason people never explain!
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- Опубліковано 19 лис 2022
- #rm250 #yz250 #yz125 #rm125
#2stroke #kx250 #kx125 #mixinggasandhaulingass #dirtbike
#hardenduro #ktm #crosscountry #2stroke
This will explain the real reason a well jetted 2 stroke is top pick for hard enduro and tight woods riding.
While I knew all of this before watch, I just wanted to take my hat off to a very good, and very simple explanation that everyone who rides can wrap their heads around. Great work man!
THANKS!
I was doing enduro on a crf450r and swapped to a new sherco 300se factory it's made life so much more easy and fun exactly how you explained.
I have a 2006 YZ144 that I resisted taking into the trails because its so jumpy and hyper. One day i had to because my 350 was down and I quickly learned if I kept it a gear high it turned into this even handed smooth bike. I also LOVED the lack of engine braking trying to send me over the bars all the time... however... there was not enough torque for me to just goose it but for the trails Im on thats never really something I need. And... damn bike is so light it felt like a mountain bike.. what a pleasure a light bike is.
i’ve always known this since i’ve ridden 4 strokes and 2 strokes for 30 years, the two strokes are my pick for most things,
Great explanation, I’ve always tried to explain to guys how while a 4 stroke has more low end a 2 stroke is much more ridable on the low end in the woods. My 450 will konk out and stall where my 300 I’m in 4th gear in some tight single track just flowing tractoring along. Like you said in the woods a 2 stroke is much more relaxed but take them to a track and it flip flops the 4 stroke is. That’s why I own both for different styles
Totally true but a 2 stroke of the same displacement actually has more low end torque it’s dyno proven
3:37 You mentioned the flywheel. Very smart. I think most bikes have way too little flywheel. A heavy flywheel will fix the dead zone problem.
Great video! I'd never really thought much about why I like riding two strokes for woods riding but this explanation nails it!
great video. you verbalized it perfectly with great scenario descriptions.
Agree 100%! I have both a Yamaha WR 450 and a Beta 300RR and the engine braking on the WR is exhausting on tight trails. Because you typically have to stand up on these gnarly trails your constantly being jerked back and forth on the four stroke, even with my Rekluse! Not so on the Beta.
I have a 2022 Beta 300 rr , best bike ever for me and I’ve had plenty of 4t and 2t .
Попробуй выбирать более высокую передачу, и дольше держать сцепление в точке схватывания. Я выбираю передачу так, чтобы при закрытии газа меня не бросало вперёд, это позволяет реже переносить вес и экономит силы. Также на длинных треках нужно стараться ехать на ровном газу, без подрывов и резких закрытий дросселя, это также экономит силы👍
Yeah...MUCH smoother transitions!
Good explanation. I've definitely had this question myself, and never found a simple answer. And I think you're right, things get "Lost in translation."
Definitely have to ride my 4 stroke through the woods differently then my 2 stroke your video nailed it!!
I have to engage my clutch into a turn on my 4 stroke so the engine brake sometimes will cause you to turn sooner then you want which resulted in me hitting a tree lol
I had to laugh. Hitting a tree! (Hope you didn't get hurt!)
Yes, the engine braking is REALLY different than that of a two-stroke!!!
Me? I just know I would be pulling in the clutch at every turn. LOL, yes, I would be buy an aftermarket hydraulic clutch in a hurry! Can you say "Arm pump!" LOL
Great explanation. I used to bore & stroke 125’s to 167cc at ROM’s.
I rode them like a 250 in the woods, utilizing the smooth off-pipe torque,
knowing that a tap on the clutch turned it into a giant 125!
Awesome video man! Thanks for the info
You've explained a few things her3 that I have simply felt for the last few years. My old kx250 has been the best trail bike I've ever seen because that low rpm is so easy to ride with and so smooth, and soon as I need a bit to hit a ledge or a log I just hit the clutch and there she goes easy as. Plus I've thrown it down countless hills, drowned it, and got it stuck in some dumb places, but that old two stroke would not give up nor leave me hanging. On the other hand I've seen four strokes throw a fit at being a little hot and then being dropped on a log. Good video.
Can confirm. Just sold my kx250f because it melted a piston twice (both within 8 hours of eachothers) because of that exact reason. Went with a kx 125
@dirtymotovation I'd love to try enduro with a 125. Hope it serves you well.
Holy crap, I may need a 2 stroke. Thank you for the insight and great personality!
I have a KDX200 and it’s perfect in the woods for that exact reason you explained. 👍
The other advantage of a two stroke happens when you have to constantly stop to check directions. A two stroke can be started with a quick paddle off down any moderate downslope. Your four stroke needs some hefty kicking if you do not have electric start.
Right, there are so many advantages. Years ago, I rode a 98 300sx a whole year with the kick start shaft stripped. It was just so easy to bump start it wasn't an issue. And I got way better clutch control that year as I was motivated to not let my bike stall.😄
Back in the 2000s, I tried to kickstart a YZ400 (no electric start!)... I gave up and handed the bike back to the owner.
@@microsoftteams2663 Did it have the decompression lever?
@@texas2strokes727 I honestly don't remember.
Great points! Only other thing I could add would be the 2T, doesn’t act like a “gyroscope” making it easy in tighter turns. Everything is spinning down low compared to the 4T
I would ass one more thing.
Throttle response. A 2t can jump up almost any obstacle near instantly. Come around a hairpin and run into a rock wall? Just rip the throttle, as long as you stay on it will jump up some pretty insane climbs.
4 strokes just Rev too slow and have their power too far up the rpm range compared to the enduro 2ts.
You nailed it brother.
Spot on!
Great video. Love my 06 RM 250, for hare scrambles I ad a flywheel weight, change to the Clark tank, and go from the Fatty to the Gnarly and a spark arrestor . Handlebars are cut down to fly through the trees and so glad I installed a Rekluse years ago , that thing is the best!
Appreciate it sir. I love those rm250s they have such a nice feel.
@@texas2strokes727 Yup, the absolute best bike I've ever ridden.
That cat emoji was exactly my reaction to your explanation. Thank you for finally clarifying, I’ve been pondering this question forever.
I've been telling everyone for 30 years that 2 stroke's make the best trail/enduro/woods bikes. I like ripping a 4 stroke on the track. But get me in the woods and I'm riding a 2 stroke. A 125 specifically. It's light, nimble, doesn't wear you out, no engine braking that can get you in trouble.
It depends on what enduro you're talking about, real enduro (time keeping on dirt tracks with light obstacles) 4 strokes are better
For time trials hard enduro, a 2 stroke is lighter so way easier to get over trial obstacles
Everyone needs to see this before they buy. I love both just like you but I ride enduro and yeah that traction on the low end is key.
I found a hack for the efi four stroke "dead zone". Drill a hole .080" in the middle of the bottom half of your butterfly valve, right behind the injector. Turned my 21 kx250f into a little tractor
Great explanation! I have switched back and forth over the past 40 years and, as I got older, the 2-stroke works best for me (A-rider). I ride enduros and hare scrambles and, the tighter & gnarlier the trail, the better I like my 250 XC-W. I would even go one step further to say I prefer the 250 over the 300 because the 250 is a bit softer on the bottom. The 250 easier to ride and it is only one clutch pull away from the power band. And, as long as the throttle is open, it doesn't stall. It might not be pulling hard, but it will keep running and give you time to clutch or change gears. Long live the 250 2-stroke!
Great video 🎉
100%
I've tried to explain this before to people and they just don't understand. It's like you have 2 different engines in the same bike and you can choose which one you want based on gear selection.
Exactly
Nailed it.
Good explanation. I always tell guys 3 gear and up is good 4 stroke county where they won't stall or heat up. 3 rd gear and down is definitely 2 stroke county.
That sed i see so many guys struggling in the woods on big 4 strokes because they think they need big power for whatever reason. Than a seasoned rider on a 150 or 200 2 stroke smokes em lol.
Started on a two stroke in the 70s and still ride a two stroke today.
I've got a 2022 WR450F at the moment and I love it but I'm definitely gonna try a 300 2 stroke next for the reasons you mentioned. Hard engine braking, stalls easy and snappy throttle down low even with retarded timing all of which make it a lot of work in technical trails.
very informative
I agree wholeheartedly. My favorite trait is that the 2-stroke doesn't feel like a Sherman tank like a 4-stroke.
What fourstroke have you tried ? Honda XR600 or KTM GS600LC4 ?
The current gen fourstrokes are hardly heavier in weight or feel than the twostrokes, just the 125/150 are a bit lighter.
@@wernerxldata My riding buddy's 2008 RM-Z450. I was riding my 2005 KTM 300 EXC. We were on a motocross track trying to get the nerve to make it across a tabletop but we landed on the flat every time. My KTM's suspension was soft-ish for desert racing. His was pure moto. My bike had its share of suspension softness on a motocross track. But the Suzuki? Felt like landing a C-5 cargo plane - without any landing gear.
Both types are good if set up right. My 2021 KTM 500 XCF-W is actually lighter than a 2024 Husqvarna TE 300. The 2T feels lighter due to the less reciprocating mass and lower center of gravity. The 500 makes more torque down low, more power up on top, and the powerband is more linear and predictable. It can launch from low speed just as well as the 300. The 300 is more fun and responsive, but requires far more maintenance: expect to rebuild the top end at 150-300 hours vs 800 hours for the 500. The 500 can go well over 100 miles on a tank of fuel, the 300 60 miles to 80 max. The 500 finds traction in the slippery steep gnar better than the 300. Try riding both in the mountains in the winter and you will see what I mean. It is best to own one of each.
@@garthlundquist3623 I agree with everything you said. I am going off on my one negative experience on the Perris motocross track. I suppose that is unfair. And, yes, I do love my two-stroke! LOL.
As a side note, I did have a very positive experience with a four-stroke was when I rode a 600cc XR out in the desert that had Precision Concepts' suspension. WHOO HOO! The faster I went over moderately-sized, spaced-out high speed whoops, the smoother it was. I think I got up to 70 mph(?)
I would like to add that there is an expense component to a four-stroke if the cylinder head fails. That is a monstrous expense. And the repair and replacement parts of the head's componentry? Ouch! In comparison, the two-stroke head single failure is warpage in the event the engine gets severely overheated.
Labor-costs wise, most all riders can tackle the top-end job of a two-stroke themselves. A four-stroke top end job? Not so many. Repair shops have to make a living...and so will eat you alive. Especially dealers.
@@garthlundquist3623 Exactly, why choose if you can have both
Great video, may be worth giving the disclaimer of "bike setup changes a lot, a better setup machine is always going to be better, regardless of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke"
Got my first 4 stroke and know what you are talking about trying to us the motor as a break. First time I almost went over the bars. But do a Video on the climbing ability pf both bikes.
Yep. Couldn’t have said it any better.
Very true 👍. I still prefer my 4 stroke tho. I like engine breaking for aggressive riding so I’m not all over the brakes. And for me the steady pull helps me keep the traction down. But yes I’m all over that clutch.
I ride a WR250R right now and I feel like it's holding me back on the trails and I'm not putting a king's ransom into the suspension. Yesterday I rode my friends X-Trainer and my other friends 350 EXC-F back to back. The KTM is FAST but man for our trails I can't even describe how much I like that Beta. It's just so easy to ride. Probably gonna be a 2 stroke for me. Even the 200RR I test rode at a demo day seemed like it would be perfect for me.
Had TT 600 dirt bike once, god that thing was a beast. Once I fell off it , it was a nightmare to start, pain in the ass.
Makes sense to me! I love the 2 stroke. The 4 stroke engine brake kills me. You are so so right about that
Unfortunately, I live in California and in order to ride I had to go with a Dual Sport (2022 Husqvarna FE350s). They are making the laws so stricken here that pretty soon 2 strokes will be illegal. The 350 is a great bike and a good compromise but the best bike I ever had for the type of riding I like to do was a 2014 KTM 300 XC-W. It was my first two stroke and it was amazing to ride, It actually made me a better rider and I always described it just like you...it was like riding a mountain bike with an engine. So light and nimble with a tons of power when you needed it. I will definitely have another one before I hang up the helmet someday, Great video.
Thank you, sir.
I’m 62 and have been riding 50 + years and I have no plans given it up. I just bought a new Beta 300 last year. I ride just as good now or better than ever. Keep ridin’ Dude!
The 350 is a bit of a goldilocks bike in that you can ride it in almost any condition. The only downside is like most jack of all trades it is a master of none. Not quite as fast as the 450's on the track, not quite as good on the rocks as the 300's.
I wound up getting a 250sx as it is faster on most of the riding I do. I almost but a new 2024 350 but the price on them is insane and the maintenance is a lot more complex. For as often as I ride I don't want to be changing oil and checking valves as much. I thought about the new 300sx but the price isn't much better. Would be a tough choice though if I was getting a new bike for trail and track riding. The plate is often very convenient over a sticker.
these days doesn't really matter, whatever you preferer riding - you can have same results on both. I find engine braking on exc-f actually useful. Recently Billy Bolt told he's planning to prove he can do all events on FE350 no problem.
Billy could do it on a tricycle, he's like 1% of riders.
on most 2 strokes 3rd gear middle is power band depending on internal & external gearing. Power band is like having a nitrous button
With either engine, you have to choose the right bike for the terrain you ride... Take the best 2T MX bike out for some hard enduro, and you're going to have a bad time... Same with a 4T. I run a KTM 450 XC-W. Proper gearing and a fan go a long way...
Put a rekluse clutch on your 4 stroke, no more engine braking, the free wheel, and you won't stall it, i run the rekluse auto clutch on all my bikes 2 and 4 stroke
I understand your point but it grinds my gears when people refer to a 4 strokes powerband lol
Way back when four strokes were heavy but reliable. With no maintenance they could run for years,idle without overheating,be quiet and comfortable to ride but too porky for moto.
So they took everything good about a thumper and made a high performance race machine that can beat a two stroke.
Now it's lost the tough low maintenance trail qualities but at least they got electric starters.
A modern four stroke feels like a race car and a good one at that.
A two stroke always felt like a bottle rocket and a magic carpet ride.
Now I'm thinking about a hybrid bike.
It could have a tiny gas generator that charges a small battery pack to power an electric drivetrain.
All the wear is on a motor with one moving part while the gas motor is unstressed and runs only when needed.
This is true, if it's flat like TX. Once you find yourself on the slopes, in the power where 2T is jumping back and forth, on and off the pipe, it starts to get fatiguing. 400cc 2T without a power valve would probably be the best woods bike.
Decent logic.
Great explanation, my WR250F has a Rekluse radius CX clutch and a left hand rear brake. The real advantage of the Rekluse clutch in my opinion.
Try my 4s beta. You can ride with just left hand, tracts on idle... Modern efi bikes can be well tuned not to stall, flame, etc... But sure, high gravity center is the main reason of less fun. And pain in the a*s to lift it up 😢 ( and too often not mentioned)
Spot on explanation! Question. You feel like the fww and the rekluse help with engine braking on the 4T?
Yes. But it depends on rekluse settings. I have mine set for high rpm engagement. So in tight single track 15-25mph setting engine brake is less.
Good video idea.
My primary bike is the 300xcw, backup CR500. The 300 has the right amount of engine braking, even more than my 500. My 500 surges forward uncomfortably, requiring more braking in the single track. I have to admit the newer KTM 500’s are pretty good bikes though & would be the only 4 stroke I would consider buying.
Centrifugal clutch might me a saver from stalling
Oh, is rekluse clutch is also a centrifugal clutch?
my favourite thing to do was when I took my 2006 YZ125 on the trails with my buddies Id keep it in a gear or two higher and keep the rpms low and the bike was so smooth and calm I loved it for nice easy trail riding. On the pipe and lower gear the bike was too much of a jerky hyper handful in the trails. Thats fine on the track where there is really no need for me to fineness the throttle all that much so I never really notice the on / off nature of the power when up in the revs. Something I do NOT miss is the engine braking of 4 strokes on trails. its so tiresome
The YZ125 is probably the easiest bike to ride on very difficult terrain. It feels so small and maneuverable. The powerband is very easy to use as it never shoots you anywhere allowing you to pick your lines with ease.
Big hills, powdery climbs, large rock faces, aka anything that requires a large power plant do slow you down but most of the time you can still make it up even if it is a bit slower.
P.S. None of this applies to big guys, this is for the 150-175lb guys.
@@NONO-hz4vo im 220lbs naked lol still funest bike i ever owned.. but ya.. on hills etc itd struggle
@user-io8bm6gz5z they really are the funnest bike. Everyone thinks they need a 450 but if you are just out to have fun on trails get a 125 it is a blast.
In my country they explain about overheating,that’s why they prefer 2 stroke over 4 stroke.is that true?
Beta ftw! Amazing 2T motors.
Just got to know how to ride each one.
While this is great knowledge, it explains perfectly why electric is the best choice
That's a good explanation of why a lot of people like that.
*And you could flip that explanation as why people don't like it: It's unresponsive.*
The 4 stroke lets you give it little blips and responds quickly to that input. It lets you use a little engine braking instead of clutch or brake, leaving your feet in the ideal position and your left hand free.
*It's great that we aren't all the same and that we have variety to try.*
Coming from a street bias moving offroad, *I tend to use throttle control way more and use clutch less.* Is this a crutch? Yes and no. It's both a preference and also a weaker spot in my riding. And the opposite could be levied toward people who started on 2strokes most of their life: they use the clutch for everything and tend not to use as much throttle response and engine braking.
Ever watch someone cook their clutch mid riding session? Was that 'good' riding technique when they kept using it when it started to show signs of slipping?
I've ridden a friend's crf when he made the mistake of putting car oil in it. The clutch became super slip inclined. If I had ridden it with clutch control style riding, it wouldn't have survived. I'd have been stranded. (it was also a good learning experience for him, as it only cost the price of buying the right oil and re-changing it)
*Unlike the 4 strokes with a nice linear predictable power curve, 2 strokes tend to be sputtery and inconsistent (at least they aren't combining that with engine braking) giving no power until suddenly they give a lot more.*
I have ridden 2stroke 250's that have power bands that feel almost like a 4 stroke.
What I've noticed about all 2 strokes I've ridden... is that they don't run well down low. *They may be firing twice as often, but they are lossy with AFR at slow speed* (Like old muscle cars with upgraded cams, they have too much crossover to run well at slow rpm). And they tend to soot up and cause other issues, unless you ratio your oil to run dangerously thin at rpm.
This is similar to comparing a street bike with an underperforming torque tuned low speed engine (comfortable to just cruise and take it easy) vs a revy engine that responds quickly to inputs. People love the Himalayan for relaxed pace easy stuff... but turn well against liking it the moment they try to open it up or pick up the pace or hit some rough stuff.
Offroad wants much more input all the time, both by trail conditions and speed. Street at 70mph? I can jump on a single footpeg and barely move the bike.
You could take a heavy adventure bike too. That weight stabilizes things. But has it's own cost as well.
*My dr650 with upgraded carb is so easy and forgiving on the throttle - that's a form/degree of unresponsive.* But *it's a really nice level,* where it's got power when you want it, but isn't jerking you around. It feels more like setting the level of forward thrust you want, but doesn't have any of the 2stroke stall or surge of power.
It's incredibly stall resistant, to the point where you'd probably have to use the brakes to force it to stall.
And the engine is linear and smooth (easy to set power) right up until the very limit where you clearly know you are forcing it to almost stall (at about 1.5mph, no clutch, & using rear brake to force it that slow). (note, every 2 stroke I've ridden would have for sure stalled long before that point unless using clutch control that slow)
No idea when you last rode a 2t, the days of sputtery bottom ends and non-linear unresponsive power are long gone on modern enduro machines.
You have ridden the wrong 2t bikes my friend.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. None of your points are consistent with how most people will characterize the 2t vs 4t debate.
First off 2 strokes are far more responsive, especially a KTM with TPI. There is no exhaust stroke. This is why every stunt bike, every trials bike, and 90+% of hard enduro bikes where throttle response is key are all 2 strokes.
2 strokes don't sputter unless you don't have it running right. Same for a 4t that has a bad EFI or carb. No cure for bad maintenance.
2 strokes are known for their low end power. Specifically the 300's they use in the hard enduros. You can lug that so low you can practically count the RPMs. Contrary the 450's all rev far higher and have more of their power in the 5k+ rpm range than the 300's.
The DR650 is a casual bike and not a trail bike nor anywhere near what would be considered a competitive ride.
The 2t vs 4t debate is normally about the race level bikes. No one cares if you can ride an XR400 around smoothly because almost any bike can match that level of performance. The debate around the differences are about which is faster near the maximums.
Damn good chance I go with a two my next go around crazy what a beta costs though…
When I did trail riding in the 90s this was opposite. With 2 strokes we had to stay on the power band. We called the four strokes tractors because they never stalled.
yeah but back then the two strokes had basically no power off the pipe and four strokes had a muuuch heavier flywheel than they have today.
I have desert raced two and four stroke KTM's. I will stick to my two stroke.
center of gravity is also a big thing
Even though modern day 4 strokes proven faster on MX track that doesn’t discredit the 2 strokes of McGrath and Hannah, therefore modern 2 strokes of enduro doesn’t discredit the XR600 of Scott summers. He’d smoke everyone in the comments on a air cooled 4 stroke with conventional forks !!!
Modern day 4 strokes proven faster…..ehhh….not. FIM rules regarding engine classes, hereby the usual lower volume engines when 2 stroke/bigger volume 4 strokes. Lets see a 450cc modern 2-stroke up against a 450cc 4-stroke. Comparison would be fair, as the 4 stroke runs almost double the rpm
Is this the same guy that did hot/crazy matrix?
I ride a 500exc, it has so much torque, there's no real dead zone.
Anyway i think it's all in the clutch management.
Does anyone else use the clutch to tame the 4T engine braking? I've been doing that without really thinking about, might be a terrible idea for all I know. Clutch seems to be holding up so far.
I was doing exactly that on my 450 after years of being on a 2 stroke.That's part of what sparked this video.
I recently rode my first 4T in years and was doing that without even thinking about it.
And the opposite is true on the MX track as you’re in the pipe more often getting more power than you wanted 😂
I wonder how this comparison will go with electric in the mix now.
This might be true in TX, but in the PNW ya really can't ride much that low in the powerband. Everything is steep up or down, the engine breaking is half the reason people chose 4"s. Love a good 2 stroke though, esp in the dunes.
2 strokes climb hills just fine look at the biggest hard enduro race in the world ....its all 2 stroke 300 cc
I’m in the PNW. 2 stroke 300’s are the majority of bikes seen in steep single track. You can be lower in the rpm and they don’t stall and will pull you up the gnar. I like them all though.
Sounds more like a riding style thing to me, I spend plenty of time at very low RPM riding in the PNW. I've got a pretty built KDX200 and just inherited a CRF250X, the 250X for tight woods work would be miserable if it didn't have a Rekluse, where the KDX will drag right down to nothing before it stalls.
@@JMKady76 When I was riding a klx300 one of the other guys in the group had a kdx220 and I spent at least 200 miles on it. Great bike for sure. I did prefer the klx for the type of tight trails we mostly rode (WA, ID, OR) though the kdx seemed faster in the more open riding. The 450's and +500's are just so well rounded, I haven't found a 2 stroke that can keep up, or that is as easy to ride, and now they are even really cheap.
Two strokes in the PNW, Evans Creek, Elfendahl there both great.70% rider 30% bike shit I don’t know I like both and own both. Bye
4 stroke either on or off throttle, 4 stroke engine rebuild cost thousands, 2 stroke smooth power, usually only need a new piston and away again
This comparison will never end. For me it's more about the way the bikes are set up and what your trying to do with them. With the power tuner app Yamaha has on the 450, a sprocket change and custom ECU map can drastically change the way the bike responds. Once you get the bike dialed in for the conditions, your set. I can whip out my phone and plug a custom tune into the bike in mere seconds. Maybe they'll adopt this system on the 2 strokes? Until then, I'll stick with the 4 stroke.
fours only rev to 6- 7 k rpm , two strokes are turning a far bigger mechanical advantage faster for longer , fours make their torque at the crank wheres two strokes make the torque from the gearbox + huge rear sprocket , fours always have a smaller sprocket because they have half the rev range of a two stroke..
4stroke for industrial use and 2stroke for fun is how i use them..both are equally as good at certain tasks .
Yep. Setup is everything. I'm riding a 450sxf trail converted and rekluse. I absolutely love it. Riding gnarly Montana single track, going places I shouldn't be at 51. But I started riding as soon as I could ride a bike and I rode an 84 Yamaha TT600 for years, so this bike feels magical. Just rode some gnarly trails with buddys, one on a trail converted Rm250. He was on the struggle bus all day. Drenched in sweat, leg bleeding. He was a trooper though. These 300 enduros must be running a heavy flywheel. Yes?
@@TheCraigy83 Don't know what planet/world your from? But here on earth where I live in NW Montana, my '21 yz450f turns well over 10k rpms at will. The rest of your comment makes absolutely no sense either? Clearly you have no clue what your even saying, and how a bike makes power.
I own a 16 KTM 500E/XC and a 17 KTM 250SX and am a vet female rider. I like the 500 for very light trail riding on maintained roads. It's a handful anywhere else. Strongly prefer the 250sx for pretty much everything else now, for exactly the same reasons you wrote. The last 4-stroke MX bike I owned was a 350sx that I loved, but even it was getting to be too much at my age.
So above and 8 hot and below a 7 crazy I should marry that bike?
I only ever raced motocross, so the entire idea of 2 strokes is just asinine to me after they got the 4 strokes figured out. Having raced both, if you're doing just that, racing, you'd never want anything other than your 4 stroke. this makes a lot of sense why you'd maybe like a 2 stroke especially if you're not planning on racing with any seriousness.
MX is no place to race a 2t. The power is just too quick over too narrow of an RPM range.
Now if you are racing hard enduro the opposite is true. 4t are way to slow to rev up and their power is too slow. You need to be able to jump up rock faces on command and not wait for an exhaust stroke. Also the weight and engine brake of a 4t are terrible on what is essentially an endurance event.
@@NONO-hz4vo About 15 years ago or so I was on 85s and I had a traditional 85 and also the Honda 150f for the super mini class. Once I got on the 150 I hated the 85 with the exception of the one track on the circuit that had basically no jumps, it was all hills and turns, on that track the 2 stroke 85 was just much easier to ride. Based on what you've said and what the dude in the video said it makes sense to me now why, it's all about that engine brake.
@djjazzyjeff1232 before I had both switching back and forth was always a challenge. First ride on the 2t you forget to hit your brakes early, you don't even think of hitting the rear till way later in the turn and you find yourself freewheeling straight off the first corner. Hop back on the 4t and you almost fly over the handle bars as soon as you chop the throttle and wonder why you haven't had to shift 3 times just to stay in the power band.
@@NONO-hz4vosounds made up
@potatopobobot4231 then I guess me and every one who races at the competitive level are all living in the same fantasy.
He forgot to mention most 2 strokes spit oil out of the exhaust if you ride them low and slow all the time.
Bro. I have seen people who don’t understand this concept put an auto clutch on their bike. Do not do this. Those auto clutches don’t even let you use the bottom part of the power because they disengage before you even get down there!!!!
Whenyou talk about use recluse on 4 stroke do you menas the clutch less rekluse?
Yes. The kx450x is geared a bit tall for the conditions I ride. Kinda like having the clutch half pulled for 2hrs at times.
@@texas2strokes727 bigger rear sprocket will help?
Which do you like most, 2t or 4t?..... Yesssss
2t. Its like having 2 bikes in one.
1 horsepower for every 6 lb... 200 lb machine. Slightly fat jetting on the bottom, running up to a lean top end.... Enables cooler running temperatures when you are below the power band moving on momentum....then screams clean, through a six-speed gearbox to power through tough sections. For long old man solo trail rides.. it's the insurance for completing every ride and making it home with a big smile. Good ol CR125R, Even with a 19-in rear it'll smoke yet in the woods... Only long steep hills are a burden 🐒
2 strokes sound & smell better too ...in the bush. Probably wouldn't ride around town on one though would piss too many people off 🤣
Weird cool graph lol
Why you giving away all the secrets 😂 This is how traveling on a 125 has been the best off-roading machine... For decades and that at horsepower for every 6 lb is sufficient, when you need to go full blast... Braaap
Thinking 23 ktm 300xc or 350xfc… first bike. Coming off tracking street bikes. Older, now 40, at 215lbs. Was leaning forward the 4t for long open trail rides to explore… should I rethink this? The videos on the 300 seem more agro, and more unstable at higher speeds. But the way you explain to ride it below there power curve, I can see the appeal. Hmmm
Well, I can tell you this.
The modern 2 stroke is really like having 2 bikes in 1.
Easy riding trail bike/fire breathing dragon. You can easily start in second gear without stalling or bucking cruise at a snail pace very smoothly.
4t will be bucky and prone to stall at low speed and require more clutch control and technique in these conditions and cause for rider fatigue due to the engine brake. But the 4t high speed stability is supirior and much easier to jump.
So.. in a nut shell 2t has trail mode/race mode with some high speed stability loss. 4t has just race mode.
Hope this helps.
@@texas2strokes727 Ive heard that a lot in my search.. At what speed would you consider "high speed, where you would get stab loss? like mid 3rd gear? is 350 only smooth and plush when pinned in 4th-5th....
You would start noticing at the end of third gear going into fourth. Then the 4 stroke will really shine, especially with straight line stability threw rough rocky terrain. This is really when I feel it 5th and 6th pinned.
The 2t feels kinda sketchy at top speed in these conditions. It just deflects more.
Brake stalling is not a problem on 2 strokes.
Right.
2-stroke, gettin’ it done in half the time…
Aren't 2 strokes also lighter to man handle around?
Yes they are. But the 2 bikes being compared could be exactly the same weight on a scale. But the 4 stroke will want to stand up more due to rotating mass and gyro effect of timing chain and cams spinning.
They smell better. Klutz or Castro bean oil yea . A dumb friend of mine when we were kids used pine sent lamp oil yes it smelled like a pine tree. For a short while and yes it blew up oil injected DT Yamaha 1973
two stroke is just waaaay too much fun....first go on a four stroke i thought it was broken.
Four strokes are too industrial feeling like an angle grinder vs a 10v cordless drill , 2strokes are very forgiving + the clutch has a lot of slack in it , four strokes are all or nothing..
I like 2 strokes because I value my time, my wife likes 4 strokes
A stroke is only half a revolution..so he is right... only every other stroke does a 2 stroke fire
twoees fire every revolution (1 up 1 down stroke, 2 strokes = 1 revolution)
Only every other stroke, does a 4 stroke engine fire it’s uh in the name
@@travisfuller9603 2 strokes make a revolution..every 4th stroke does a 4 stroke fire..duh
On both 2 and 4 cycle engines, 4 strokes have to take place. Intake, power, exhaust and compression. A 4 stroke fires on the power stroke, only. So it fires 1 out of 4 times, or 25%. A 2 stroke motor performs 2 strokes at the same time. Intake/compression and power/exhaust. It fires on the power/exhaust strokes, but not on the intake/compression strokes. So that makes it 1 out of 2, or 50% of the time.
@@travisfuller9603 Its not every other stroke, its one out of 4. See my post below.
If you were right, Honda wouldn't have like a 15-year streak of winning all World titles in trials
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone riding a trials bike in hard enduro or cross country.
@@texas2strokes727 - Hard enduro is nothing but trials-like section and the best trials bike ever made is a 4-stroke - If you were friends with sponsored pros you'd know they only ride 300cc 2-strokes because brands believe that's the only way to sell them BUT they'd all want a 250cc 4-stroke, even a 250cc 2-stroke is better
SOURCE = Friends with a Erzbergrodeo winner, an Indoor Enduro World champion and a Sea-to-Sky winner
Too bad 4 stroke manufacturers couldn't find a way to...I don't know.....change the mapping.😂😂 All modern 4 strokes have tunable engine mapping that can make the 4 stroke have almost any power band you want, under max power.
Any suggested tuner for my 21 kawi?
@@texas2strokes727 I use the Kawasaki calibration tool and have been happy with it. It is fuel and ignition timing and is pretty easy to use.
4 t is so great they have to be twice the cc in the AMA Moto and Super Cross races! 😂😂😂
Ditch the Recluse, become a better rider, 4 or 2 stroke.
2 stroke is not wort the changing pistons every 500 hours of riding.
2 strokes fire every time piston goes to top of the cylinder 4 stroke fires every other time going to make vid on 4 stroke and 2 stroke might want to get that ironed out first
Yeah. You should probably read a bit too so you know that a revolution is not a stroke. Or it would be a 1 stroke engine and the other a 2 stroke🤦♂️
I'm not putting out and trying to inform people
You are right on that guess I didn't listen to everything u said the new ktm 300 is the first to beat a 4 stroke on bottom end and a linear torque curve that was a 350 it beat how u can say 2 stroke has more bottom or a 4stroke has a lager dead zone Billy bolt says if wasn't for over heating in slow sections he would run a 4storke on hard Enduro so everyone has their own reasons so I don't know maybe I was just looking for a reason to criticize the video cuz I didn't agree with it
have a great week Texas
I'll let you know when I learn how to read
Four stroke make industry more money , rebuildin the two engines is a large cost difference so four strokes are pushed on the masses more , i straight up stopped watching ama motorcross when they switched to fourstrokes .