Franco did offer Galicia to the Portuguese as a trade for some Portuguese possesions I think Cape Verde, a bit of Angola, Damão or Diu, but Salazar refused. If Franco had these tactical pieces of land he could've either done much more than he did or just press his neutrality harder.
@@sheogorath6804 thats absolutely false, franco himself was galician, selling out spanish clay for a couple colonies was completely out of his mind, where did you get this from!?!?
Just to clarify, neither Franco nor his regime were actually fascist, they were influenced a bit by fascism, but actual fascism was basically banned under the Unification Decree of 1937, which saw the Falange, the fascist party and one of many factions of the national movement, effectively absorbed under a new single party that although was still named the Falange for some years, was in the control of Franco and his closer loyalists, that saw to build a traditionalist regime that could be also totalitarian, to appease both the Falange and the other groups, in the end the regime ended up being way more similar to whatever dictatorships were in places like South America than to Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy
I agree, though simply due to how convoluted our knowledge about fascism is and how ideologically spun any sources on fascism and Francoist Spain are, it’s easy to fall into the trap of equating adjacent ideologies.
Yep this feels more like a "What if Primo De Rivera became the leader of the nationalists and unified with Salazar". This scenario really doesn't align at all with Franco's vision. If Franco did unify with Portugal it would be under a monarchy and if he did create a coalition it wouldn't really be so fiercely authoritarian and so wouldn't face such bad relations with the democratic countries.
@@theeternal2734 Everything. Fascist states believe that the State is above every part of society. Things that are not subordinate to the State are a threat. All must be used for State interests. Vs Franco's traditionalist and monarchist state which holds the Church and Crown above the State. This is why Franco's official title was regent. Regent to the king. And Franco's regime had nothing of the race ideology of Germany which really made Germany itself completely different from Italy. Whereas Mussolini literally got to power through opposing the monarchy in the march on Rome and Mussolini hated the monarchy and the papacy. Both Germany and Italy were secular regimes who had to deal with a religious population whereas Spain was a religious regime dealing with a secular population. Spain even worked to purge fascists who were too friendly with Germany and was worried about the spread of German ideas which they called pagan. Franco was a man who grew up under monarchy long before fascism existed. Every single one of the old monarchists would have done what he did to his political opponents, this isn't uniquely fascist. Where Franco differed is that he used fascist tactics and symbols against the Left and also against the fascists in order to restore the monarchy and to end regionalism.
I don't think that you've done it in this comment, but I think that the video, and popular perception is that the Spanish Right was more cohesive than it was. Take the word monarchist. Franco was definitely a monarchist, supporting the restoration of previous royal family. But... He was definitely not a Carlist. He was an Alfonsist And the big divide that had to be breached on Spanish was between the Carlists and Falange. Remember that Sanjurjo, not Franco was to be the leader of the 1936 uprising. Sanjurjo was supported by the Carlists. Against the Alfonsists and Carlists, were the Falangists whose base of support come from the follower of the Primo de Rivera dictatorship and the Africanists in the military. Franco wasn't a Falangist, but he was an Africanist. What does this all mean? Franco may have not been a card carrying fascist, but he was fascist adjacent. If we want to identify a reason why the Spanish dictatorship wasn't as awful as Germany or Italy, I'd point to the Carlists, not Franco. Interestingly enough after the dictatorship, the Carlist again became a small political party separated from the Falangists advocating a type of socialist monarchism based on Catholic Social Teaching.
I love when videos like these remind people that history was not just what happened to the US, UK, and all the other "top line" states. I would enjoy seeing more like these, where events that don't get enough limelight have their moment.
I think you strongly misunderstand Franco along with his ideological positions. He was far far far more of a monarchist than he was a fascist. In fact many of the most hardline fascists were fiercely in favor of a republic for the nationalists, and thus were eventually put down. Franco would most definitely not plaster the quiver and arrows on everything, he only used these symbols and long dead fascists like Primo De Rivera in order to essentially coopt their movement and momentum until they can be weakened and isolated from power. This is why the red and black flag eventually was sidelined because that wasn't actually his ideology. At most it would be a small part of the overall design of these sorts of flags and may not even show up on a union flag. A union flag would be more likely to use a Carlist type flag or something incorporating the coat of arms of both Portugal and Spain, so a traditional style instead of the modern style flags represented here. That four color flag you used for the union is painfully Republican in style, something that people like Primo de Rivera would use, not Franco. Its also somewhat suspicious that every one of the people handpicked by Franco from the top to the bottom all decided to go along with Spain's transition and this ultimately gave an enormous amount of popularity and legitimacy to the monarchy. And of course its completely absurd to think Franco would abandon the monarchy for a union state. Outright impossible. This was one issue that he would have never allowed to occur.
Thats Bullshit. Nearly Every single on of these new Axis paowers were faciist dictatorships in real history. Spain and Portugal send even soldiers to fight for Hitler. Some of the last defenders of Berlin were offical soldiers of spain and portugal.
@@darken2417 Franco was nor monarchist nor falangist though your point stands he wasn’t a falangist to say he was a monarchist or rather a heavy supporter of it much preferring it over falangism would be incorrect, Franco believed in the traditional ideals of Spain however wasn’t one to pick sides when it came to internal factions within the nationalist wing rather he’d utilize his power to declare himself dictator. Franco had both falangist and Carlist in positions of power aswell as had falangist propaganda air on state TV he did pick a Carlist king as his successor only after his previous successor was killed. If Franco was a firm believer in monarchism he would had reinstated the monarch or, the falangist would had felt betrayed and would had revolted against his government. Your statement of him not being a falangist stands correct however him being a monarchist is incorrect as if he where an alternate course of events would had taken place much impacting the Spanish civil war.
@@Glorious-j1k The falangists were practically wiped out, this is just incorrect. There are memoires about how those guys felt their movement was betrayed. Or how they felt that the new regime didn't align with De Rivera's ideology. He was most definitely a monarchist and it was the whole reason why he conducted social programs to make the population compatible with monarchy again. He wasn't a carlist because he wasn't concerned about which side would gain the throne thus why a compromise was chosen. This is well attested to even in Republican sources like in Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. He was on the enemy side and yet even he says that no Franco wasn't actually a fascist, its an American misinterpretation. Franco literally had priest advisors. American historians even put out the idea that Franco would be overthrown by the landowners since the landowners were monarchist and believed they would be put down by the fascist elites. Instead it was the complete opposite.
So your claiming you knew Franco personally by saying that he’s a monarchist since it apeares by historical records Franco once he won the civil war didn’t declare himself king or gave power to a king, also, do remember George Orwell was someone who was an independent author of a book who self said himself that he took place in little combat in the Spanish civil war and I do believe was either in an anarchist or Stalinist militia group. It’s clear Franco was nor monarchist nor falangist and the only reason that after his successor died he gave power to a king was due to the fact that he for one didn’t know that the king had been in contacts with the U.S. government and had democratic sympathy’s and 2, that he would as in the first statement lead Spain to democracy. Franco clearly only gave this power to this king due to popular support and having no one else to give the power to. Also do remember right wing radicals non monarchists in 1980 I believe attempted to coup the Spanish government, hereby showing that falangism as an ideology had not been eradicated simply in the aftermath of the civil war had no reason to engage in any more, the same can be said for the monarchist and any other civil war faction as they where all unified with Franco
You should research about proyecto Islero, the spanish nuclear program. It was close to be succesful and it even continued a little more during the democracy. In this alternative timeline it would have been an even higher priority for Franco than it was in the OT.
Bravo ! I thought about alternate history for years now, but never such a scenario came to my mind, and masterfully developped i must say. Your channel is really great !
Cool scenario and analysis! But I really doubt Salazar could have accepted sush a union whit Spain. As you said, spanish desires of an united ibearia under Spain were well known, and feard, in Portugal. Plus, there are all the other political and ideological aspects as you also said. For example, Portugal had a lusotropicalist view of the world wile Spain was much more focused on iberian unity (Portugal would not be welling, nor have the capabilities, to go help the spanish or the greeks, wile Spain would also not be welling to go fight in Africa for Portugal).
I also doubt the US would allow this Iberian Union to act too influentially in the African theater of war during the period of decolonization. They would likely always check the power of "independent" powers as they sought to maintain hegemony over the free world just as their chewish masters would want.
Im Portugues and can treuly say that even if Salazar had agreed to unification. The Portugues Peopel and also most likely Military would have not! I mean even until today the Portugues are practising Cultural protectionism, with for instance Spanish Names Like "Juan" or "Diego" being banned from the Baby List! Substituted with the Portuguese names "Joao" and "Diogo". Or with Locals to this day refusing to speak Spanish in Portugal with Tourists, instead switch to English. The Only instance that the Portugues Would even cosider agreen to that would be to make Lisbon the CAPITAL of the Iberian Peninsula and to move spains Goverment there. Theoraticaly. I mean that was what Charles the V. Promised the Portugues Nobels in the 16th.
Honestly the fact that Spain hasn’t tried to unite the Spanish speaking world in our timeline into something similar to the Warsaw region pact or a EEC is astonishing. Especially since many Spanish speaking countries share similar cultures, histories, and speak the same language it’s crazy to me they never united under a block like the Anglo or Arabic world.
There are some agreements but generally many people and some governments in Hispanic countries want nothing to do with Spain but rather stay independent or making the deals in their own terms at best
The main issues with that Is That Spain lost Its great power status when the Empire fell appart, there was no Powerhouse metropoli like britain left after the Empire; Once the breakup happened the colonies saw no good reasson to reaproach Spain and the Civil wars where far to bloody and Spain behaved too pettily (many latinamerican countries didnt even wanted independence, They had been begging Spain for reforms for decades and spain just told them to fuck off. As an example: México's war of independence was mostly won by the Royalist side under the comand of Agustín de Iturbide, but by the Time It happened the Royalist were soo Fed up with Spain that they agreed with the rebells to go independient, and still they asked spain for a Prince to rule independent México... Spain again refused and Iturbide was named Emperor of México therefore severing any chance to mantain unity) so that the relations were too broken for too long. Also no other Spanish offshoot has been strong enough to Ennact a US-UK type relation, and with Spain not being strong enough to reclaim leadership you have equals who Dont want to accept vassailment to an equal. Maybe in 50 years México could take that role being a top 5 economy and having close to 160 million population (currently number 12 economy and 130 million people)
Hey US of Z, may You make another part? Time went flying hearing this alternative scenario which i didnt experience like 1 year ago. You make good scenarios that keep people's eyes withouth getting bored. Keep up!
Nice work! Very creative. I'd like to see more focus on whether a pan-Iberic identity would actually emerge, or if Portuguese, Catalans, Castilians etc would still poke at one another. Also, here's a potential scenario fer yez: What if Italy decided to sit out WWII and focus on their "Fourth Shore" project? How would that change Italy, the war, and the world?
The francoist Spain haved a nuclear project almost finished in this times. But got cancelled by the good relations with USA. In this alternative history, iberia very probably has nukes
Very interesting video. It has great details, such as the Iberian greater collaboration with the authoritarian regimes of South America and the white regimes of South Africa and Rhodesia, but in my opinion it would be greatly improved if you had decided that the POD was Franco's refusal to cede the Spanish Morocco to the Moroccan sultanate after the abandonment of the French (occurred in 1956), who intended to focus only on keeping Algeria as part of their territory. In this way, Francoist Spain would join quite early and with greater intensity (since in OTL Spain helped quite a bit logistically to the Portuguese war effort in the Portuguese Colonial War, which only ended because of the stab in the back that was the Carnation Revolution, which not only led to the overthrow of the Estado Novo regime, but also to a hasty decolonization that led to the massacre of many pro-Portuguese natives in Guinea Bissau and other then Portuguese overseas provinces) to the Portuguese fight against anti-colonial movements (in 1954 Nehru's India invaded the small Portuguese enclaves of Dadra and Nagar Haveli, and in 1961 it invaded Goa, ending the 450-year Portuguese control over that part of India; in fact, some of the greatest Portuguese anti-guerrilla experts got their trial by fire with the guerrilla campaign that Nehru fomented to obtain Goa) with a cause that was extremely personal to himself (his meteoric military career, which led him to become the youngest general in Europe at just 33 years old, took place mainly in Spanish Morocco where he fought against the rebellious Rif tribes) and his comrades in arms (the vast majority of the officers who formed part of the Nationalist side in the Spanish Civil War had fought in the colonial wars in Morocco). Since the Moroccan monarchy was a natural ally of the USA (Morocco was the first country to recognise US independence), Franco's hard stance would anger the US government, but given their strong anti-communism at the height of the Cold War, they could overlook this detail by claiming that their French allies were also doing the same with Algeria. In this way, American investments (including Spain's participation in President Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace project to promote nuclear energy) would not be affected by this disagreement (furthermore, the vast majority of the native population of Spanish Morocco was of Berber origin, while the majority of Morocco, which had just become independent from the French, was of Arab origin; in fact, in OTL, a few years later Spanish withdrawal there were Rif protests over the treatment of the Berbers and the Moroccan king put them down by bombing them with napalm; after that, many requested to be under the protection of Spain again). Moreover, in this way a strongly anti-communist Western country would dominate both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar, unlike the doubts that existed with the recently independent Morocco, whose many inhabitants were seduced by Nasser's anti-Western pan-Arabism (indeed, King Hassan II suffered two coup attempts against him by pan-Arabist high-ranking military officers). On the other hand, neither the video nor its maps show that Spain still held the colonies that currently make up Equatorial Guinea (decolonised in 1968) and Western Sahara (in 1975 it was invaded by Morocco, which had already unleashed the Ifni War (1958-1959) over the territories of Sidi Ifni (fully surrendered in 1969) and the territory of Cabo Juby (surrendered to Morocco in 1958, considered by many to be part of Western Sahara)), while Portugal also held on to Cape Verde, Guinea Bissau, São Tomé and Príncipe, East Timor (all of them decolonised after the Carnation Revolution, except East Timor which was immediately invaded by Suharto's Indonesia) and Macau (handed over to People's Republic of China in 1999). As for this Iberian unification, although I see it as highly unlikely that Salazar would accept such a possibility (In an interview he gave, he confessed something that he himself forbade to be published: "Without its overseas empire, what would this sandbank attached to Spain be, where a Spanish dialect is spoken?"), if it were to happen it should be noted that Portuguese autonomy would be more respected and that this could encourage regionalist movements in Galicia, the Basque Country and Catalonia within a strong Spanish nationalism that would accept a little more internal cultural pluralism as long as it did not lead to fostering separatism (As much as the Franco regime is criticised for its treatment of regional languages in Spain, in the last years of the regime it was established, for example, that Catalan language be taught 5 hours a week in public schools in Catalonia, when at our present, under the autonomous regime established by the current Spanish democracy, Catalan nationalists refuse to comply with court rulings requiring 3 hours of Spanish a week in public schools in Catalonia; Furthermore, on many occasions when Franco personally visited Galicia, the Basque Country, Navarre, Catalonia and the Valencian Community, he was greeted with banners in their regional languages and many of the plaques on infrastructures that he inaugurated were written both in Spanish and in that regional language). Furthermore, the video could have mentioned the Iberian collaboration with the attempted coup in the late 1960s that some Italian military officers were planning to stop the powerful Italian Communist Party, seduced by the recent coup by the Greek colonels. As for greater collaboration with dictatorships and charismatic leaders in Latin America, the Argentina of the newly elected Perón could have joined this new international alliance, since he was exiled for many years in Franco's Spain and during his last months of life, President Perón was trying to end the leftist insurgency (his successor, his own widow, was the president who began to create paramilitary groups to end that insurgency). Meanwhile, OTL Spain's main foreign policy concern was the recovery of Gibraltar, and in 1968 the UN passed a resolution urging Britain to hand over the colony to Spain, condemning the British-approved referendum to prevent it. Given that the video points out that this Iberia actively participated in the pro-Greek coup in Cyprus to have the island annexed by Greece, it could have been pointed out that Iberia has occupied the existing British sovereign bases on the island, in order to be a bargaining chip to recover Gibraltar.
On the other hand, one extremely important detail must not be forgotten: the Islero Project, the Spanish nuclear weapons project. Ever since the news of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki reached Madrid, Franco had dreamed of achieving this kind of weaponry for Spain. To this end, he created the Atomic Research Board in 1948, but the economic autarky that Spain experienced due to the Allied blockade caused the atomic project to advance at a snail's pace, only gaining speed after Spain's participation in Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace project, with which the USA intended to normalize the use of nuclear energy while trying to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons. As a result of this plan, Spain became one of the European countries with the largest number of nuclear reactors at the Cold War, which led Spain to send many scientists to American facilities in order to learn how to manage these nuclear power plants. Taking advantage of this, Spain sent not only civilian scientists but also military ones, and when they considered that they had enough trained personnel (at the beginning of the 1960s), they secretly ordered theoretical and practical research to achieve nuclear weapons. Although the project initially moved forward slowly, two events advanced it enough for Spain to have the knowledge to have its own nuclear bombs: 1) On the one hand, there was the Palomares incident in January 1966 (an American B-52 bomber carrying several thermonuclear bombs collided with its tanker plane in flight over Palomares, in the Spanish province of Almeria, causing the bombs to fall: some of the conventional explosive charges exploded without causing a nuclear deflagration, causing some nuclear contamination, while one intact bomb fell into a river bed and another intact bomb fell into the sea, being recovered months later). Before the Americans arrived to seize everything, the Spanish armed forces sent the scientific head of the Islero Project (Guillermo Velarde, who was the one who titled the program with the name Islero, the name of the bull that killed the famous bullfighter Manolete, since he thought that the nuclear weapons program would kill him because of the trouble it would cause him) to the area, investigating all the remains. With all the information gathered, Velarde was able to rediscover the Teller-Ulam process, the scientific process by which thermonuclear bombs were detonated, so Spain had the scientific knowledge to manufacture them. 2) On the other hand, Spain had a strong ally who also wanted Spain to be a nuclear-armed country: Gaullist France. At that time, Charles de Gaulle wanted Europe to have an independent deterrent capacity so as not to end up dragged into the Cold War confrontation between NATO (although France belonged to NATO, Charles de Gaulle withdrew France from its military structure in 1966) and the Warsaw Pact, which is why France successfully carried out its own nuclear weapons program (in 1960 happened the first French nuclear bomb test and in 1968 was the first French thermonuclear bomb test). To truly achieve this independent deterrent capacity for Europe, the Gaullists considered Franco's Spain, an anti-communist country that was not a member of NATO, to be ideal (furthermore, given Spain's recent isolation, in this Franco-Spanish alliance, France would always be the senior partner). To this end, they offered to build Spanish nuclear power plants using French technology, which could produce plutonium as nuclear waste, one of the two perfect types of nuclear fuel to create nuclear bombs. In our OTL, the project made great progress in the theoretical aspect thanks to the discoveries made in Palomares, so Velarde presented his secret findings to Franco, who ordered the project to be halted in its practical aspects due to fears that the Americans would discover them and initiate an economic blockade that would end the current Spanish economic miracle (apparently Franco was convinced by his Minister of Industry, who frightened him with the possibility that the West would blockade Spain again as happened in the early post-war period). However, in the early 1970s (taking advantage of the fact that Franco was increasingly delegating his iron control over the government to his number two, Admiral Carrero Blanco), Velarde was ordered to resume the practical aspects of the Islero project on the condition that it would not require too many funds that would require Franco's approval, taking advantage of the fact that Spanish nuclear power plants were already being built with French technology. Given Spain's greater diplomatic independence in this alternative history, Franco would not be convinced by that Minister of Industry (probably bribed by the Americans) and would not halt the progress of that project, which could set up the creation of Spanish atomic bombs before the first India bomb test (after all, India was the first country outside the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to successfully test its first bomb in May 1974, culminating a nuclear weapons program that began in the early 1960s) or the death of Franco himself, which occurred in November 1975. Furthermore, since in this alternate history Francoist Spain/Iberia would be strongly allied with apartheid South Africa (who in turn was allied with Israel to advance their respective nuclear weapons projects), this could further advance and ensure that Spain would be able to successfully test its own nuclear and thermonuclear weapons before Franco died in November 1975. Perhaps the Vela Incident (considered by many to be the joint nuclear test between Israel and South Africa in the southern Indian Ocean) that took place in September 1979 would have taken place earlier thanks to the support of this Francoist Iberia, which would carry out its own nuclear tests in the then Spanish Sahara?
Botswana having their democratic government replaced, destroying one of the best examples of a post-colonial state, is very sad to me. They probably get put under a White apartheid regime that just turns them into a glorified colony of South Africa and Rhodesia.
@Gigadoomer13 Zimbabwe is doing quite good under the US dollar, you’d be surprised, there’s quite a reason why you never see Zimbabweans move abroad, as they have pretty much the living standard of Botswana, and one that is rapidly growing South Africa’s case is a little different though; the influence of powerful foreign companies is something which still shapes the country. The disparity in wealth is pretty high, as most of the population doesn’t actually get back much. For example, the company “Anglo-American”, which still siphons billions in natural resources every year. However, they are a quite stable democracy which is becoming more and more free, and these issues and other meddling seem to be getting better: the future is looking prosperous for both of these nations
Please make a part two 🙏 video for the What if the America was never colonized? video of Monsieur Z. E.g. by adding a "Salish League'' as a country in the Pacific northwest & Arawak Kingdoms in South America.*
Spain: Well, it was costly in many ways, but now Botswana is pacified. Still, our relations with NATO aren't the best, but we are yet to anger them in any meaningfull way. So... we are fine... as long as no one in the organization bothers them directly. Argentina: Question. Spain: What's your question, son? Argentina: I declared war on the UK. Spain: What?! Argentina: I felt ready to do so. Spain: With what goal? Argentina: I want nothing but all Britsh colonies in the south atlantic sea. Brazil: But where are all our special forces?! S.A: ... *Freedom noices in the distance*
How many times do actual right wingers have to tell you this! Franco. Was. Not. Fascist!!! He was a Conservative at best! A reactionary fool at worse. You’re starting premise completely invalidated this entire video
Thats Bullshit. Nearly Every single on of these new Axis paowers were faciist dictatorships in real history. Spain and Portugal send even soldiers to fight for Hitler. Some of the last defenders of Berlin were offical soldiers of spain and portugal.
I think Argentina in the 60s would be a flashpoint between the OIR and the USA, rather than a point of cooperation. The juntas ruling Argentina at the time were staunchly anti-peronist, while Peron, a figure much more sympathetic to Franco, had taken asylum in Spain after the 1955 coup. If the US and Iberia were to cooperate in South America, the only way I'd see that happening is if the US and Franco negotiated with the juntas for a re-legalization of peronism and an earlier return of Peron to Argentina, potentially helping to stabilize the region. The 1976 coup after Peron's death might still happen, as it was initially done by peronist military as a response to communist insurgencies, though Iberian support might've kept the junta further away from American influence, and might result in a much more complicated situation if the 1982 war with Britain still happens.
Please make a part two 🙏 video for the What if the America was never colonized? video of Monsieur Z. for instance by adding a "Salish League'' as a country in the Pacific northwest & Arawak Kingdoms in South America too.
What if the city of rapture was real and it either avoided its civil war or Ryan won it and he announced the city of rapture to the world at the end of the Cold War? I think he would’ve done it because he built rapture to avoid nuclear apocalypse though I think in this timeline Ryan would view America as a authoritarian state from the one he once knew and he might actually either set his sights or open trading to Russia that is his homeland and just got rid of communism Hell Russia in a post Soviet era might embrace Ryan’s ideals and views Just an idea
I always wonder for the existence of a large West and East Germanys during the Cold War. Say the Allies split Germany in half according to the 1939 German borders when they invaded Poland. A larger West Germany could play a bigger role in NATO or in the EEC. East Germany would be like a main guy for the USSR in Eastern Europe. After the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO and Europe could decide whether to allow German unification or have the two states separate.
I'm not seeing them hold on to any of the colonies. If it was quickly becoming too expensive for the Portuguese, it's not going to become any cheaper to the Spanish.
First off Franco and Salazar never were fascists, never! Second this "union" could never be a done deal, there is no way you can invade and keep Portugal with weapons and repression, been tried, does not stick, ask Napoleon.
Funny idea I thought of. Why don't you make a video of an alternative history of an alternative history. Example Fuherreich that and how people in a world where Germany won WW1 think what it would be like if the Entente had won WW1. For example, you (from a universe where Germany won the Second World War) would talk about a theory of what it would be like if Germany had lost the Second World War. For example, you would say "We all know that Bukharon becoming leader of the Soviet Union led to the Soviet economic collapse that led to his defeat, but... what if, through a small change, the Soviet Finns took power, making global socialism gain more strength, making Trotaky took power and invested in the exercise with communist movements taking control in Brazil, China, Chile and Nicaragua and we know that Charles Lindenberg won the elections of 40, leaving the US in a war with Japan (which we ended up losing even more by continuing). ) we are going to make Smedley Butler carry out a military coup that almost happened and we are going to make the USA intervene in the War at the end of 1940 and we are going to make the prominent politician Arnold Lesse win the emergency elections of prime minister in 40 and make the United Kingdom become an Utranationalist state making moral English became high and making a "Cruzade" against false facism and after years of war in 1949, 3 nuclear bombs were dropped on Germany and 8 on Japan with the beginning of a three-sided cold war, the first the United States bloc which would include Japan, Canada, Mexico and some countries. from Arabia and Asia. the Communist bloc led by the Soviet Union led by D. S. Mirsky and declared the Eurasian soviet Socialista Republic since Trotsky was assassinated in 44 by a Mexican spy, China led by Zhou Enlai and the only major communist country in the Americas, Brazil led by João Amazonas. And the Utranationalist bloc led by the United Kingdom who are led by Oswald Mosley that became prime minister in 1945 who managed to maintain his entire Empire including India which was kept under control because the British ordered the death of Gandhi and Subha Sandras Boshe in 47 and France led by Jacques Doriot who managed to win the Indochina war with British help and Italy, which remained neutral throughout the second war until 45, where Mussoline ordered war against the false fascists in Germany, where they managed to hold the front until 49, when the war ended. Mussolini died in 48 by a Heart Atack and succeeded by the Fascist Mysticist Nicolau Giani who managed to stabilize Italy and Germany that is ruled by Josef Mengele. So this is the end of another video. In the next video we will see what would have happened if Stalin had continued his political path and not become a priest" If you're reading this and say it's unrealistic...you are complety right
Alternative title:what if franco did something
@@ClaudEros-e1p as if saving Spain wasn’t enough for you
@@mr.battledroid2195 bruh
He did…
Viva Franco hostia
Franco did offer Galicia to the Portuguese as a trade for some Portuguese possesions I think Cape Verde, a bit of Angola, Damão or Diu, but Salazar refused. If Franco had these tactical pieces of land he could've either done much more than he did or just press his neutrality harder.
@@sheogorath6804 thats absolutely false, franco himself was galician, selling out spanish clay for a couple colonies was completely out of his mind, where did you get this from!?!?
Just to clarify, neither Franco nor his regime were actually fascist, they were influenced a bit by fascism, but actual fascism was basically banned under the Unification Decree of 1937, which saw the Falange, the fascist party and one of many factions of the national movement, effectively absorbed under a new single party that although was still named the Falange for some years, was in the control of Franco and his closer loyalists, that saw to build a traditionalist regime that could be also totalitarian, to appease both the Falange and the other groups, in the end the regime ended up being way more similar to whatever dictatorships were in places like South America than to Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy
If You're Talking About The Labeling That's Correct, But What Would Make Franco's Regime Different From The German And Italian States?
I agree, though simply due to how convoluted our knowledge about fascism is and how ideologically spun any sources on fascism and Francoist Spain are, it’s easy to fall into the trap of equating adjacent ideologies.
Yep this feels more like a "What if Primo De Rivera became the leader of the nationalists and unified with Salazar".
This scenario really doesn't align at all with Franco's vision. If Franco did unify with Portugal it would be under a monarchy and if he did create a coalition it wouldn't really be so fiercely authoritarian and so wouldn't face such bad relations with the democratic countries.
@@theeternal2734
Everything.
Fascist states believe that the State is above every part of society. Things that are not subordinate to the State are a threat. All must be used for State interests.
Vs Franco's traditionalist and monarchist state which holds the Church and Crown above the State.
This is why Franco's official title was regent. Regent to the king. And Franco's regime had nothing of the race ideology of Germany which really made Germany itself completely different from Italy.
Whereas Mussolini literally got to power through opposing the monarchy in the march on Rome and Mussolini hated the monarchy and the papacy.
Both Germany and Italy were secular regimes who had to deal with a religious population whereas Spain was a religious regime dealing with a secular population.
Spain even worked to purge fascists who were too friendly with Germany and was worried about the spread of German ideas which they called pagan.
Franco was a man who grew up under monarchy long before fascism existed. Every single one of the old monarchists would have done what he did to his political opponents, this isn't uniquely fascist.
Where Franco differed is that he used fascist tactics and symbols against the Left and also against the fascists in order to restore the monarchy and to end regionalism.
I don't think that you've done it in this comment, but I think that the video, and popular perception is that the Spanish Right was more cohesive than it was.
Take the word monarchist.
Franco was definitely a monarchist, supporting the restoration of previous royal family. But...
He was definitely not a Carlist. He was an Alfonsist And the big divide that had to be breached on Spanish was between the Carlists and Falange.
Remember that Sanjurjo, not Franco was to be the leader of the 1936 uprising. Sanjurjo was supported by the Carlists.
Against the Alfonsists and Carlists, were the Falangists whose base of support come from the follower of the Primo de Rivera dictatorship and the Africanists in the military. Franco wasn't a Falangist, but he was an Africanist.
What does this all mean? Franco may have not been a card carrying fascist, but he was fascist adjacent. If we want to identify a reason why the Spanish dictatorship wasn't as awful as Germany or Italy, I'd point to the Carlists, not Franco.
Interestingly enough after the dictatorship, the Carlist again became a small political party separated from the Falangists advocating a type of socialist monarchism based on Catholic Social Teaching.
Let's get this channel to 10k!
@@MonsieurDean Just subbed
@@MonsieurDean YOOOOOO BUDDY.
You Forgot the Malvinas War between Argentina and the uk
@@CesarAugustoRocabadoVillegas Falklands*
@@hhproductions8254 no*. Malvinas war is how we know it and how we are going to still calling it.
@@CesarAugustoRocabadoVillegas womp womp, remember the Belgrano loathsome Argie coping from getting wrecked by a declining Empire
I love when videos like these remind people that history was not just what happened to the US, UK, and all the other "top line" states. I would enjoy seeing more like these, where events that don't get enough limelight have their moment.
Here waiting until part2 comes out
I think you strongly misunderstand Franco along with his ideological positions. He was far far far more of a monarchist than he was a fascist.
In fact many of the most hardline fascists were fiercely in favor of a republic for the nationalists, and thus were eventually put down.
Franco would most definitely not plaster the quiver and arrows on everything, he only used these symbols and long dead fascists like Primo De Rivera in order to essentially coopt their movement and momentum until they can be weakened and isolated from power. This is why the red and black flag eventually was sidelined because that wasn't actually his ideology. At most it would be a small part of the overall design of these sorts of flags and may not even show up on a union flag.
A union flag would be more likely to use a Carlist type flag or something incorporating the coat of arms of both Portugal and Spain, so a traditional style instead of the modern style flags represented here. That four color flag you used for the union is painfully Republican in style, something that people like Primo de Rivera would use, not Franco.
Its also somewhat suspicious that every one of the people handpicked by Franco from the top to the bottom all decided to go along with Spain's transition and this ultimately gave an enormous amount of popularity and legitimacy to the monarchy.
And of course its completely absurd to think Franco would abandon the monarchy for a union state. Outright impossible. This was one issue that he would have never allowed to occur.
Thats Bullshit. Nearly Every single on of these new Axis paowers were faciist dictatorships in real history. Spain and Portugal send even soldiers to fight for Hitler. Some of the last defenders of Berlin were offical soldiers of spain and portugal.
@@darken2417 Franco was nor monarchist nor falangist though your point stands he wasn’t a falangist to say he was a monarchist or rather a heavy supporter of it much preferring it over falangism would be incorrect, Franco believed in the traditional ideals of Spain however wasn’t one to pick sides when it came to internal factions within the nationalist wing rather he’d utilize his power to declare himself dictator. Franco had both falangist and Carlist in positions of power aswell as had falangist propaganda air on state TV he did pick a Carlist king as his successor only after his previous successor was killed. If Franco was a firm believer in monarchism he would had reinstated the monarch or, the falangist would had felt betrayed and would had revolted against his government. Your statement of him not being a falangist stands correct however him being a monarchist is incorrect as if he where an alternate course of events would had taken place much impacting the Spanish civil war.
@@Glorious-j1k
The falangists were practically wiped out, this is just incorrect. There are memoires about how those guys felt their movement was betrayed. Or how they felt that the new regime didn't align with De Rivera's ideology.
He was most definitely a monarchist and it was the whole reason why he conducted social programs to make the population compatible with monarchy again.
He wasn't a carlist because he wasn't concerned about which side would gain the throne thus why a compromise was chosen.
This is well attested to even in Republican sources like in Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. He was on the enemy side and yet even he says that no Franco wasn't actually a fascist, its an American misinterpretation.
Franco literally had priest advisors.
American historians even put out the idea that Franco would be overthrown by the landowners since the landowners were monarchist and believed they would be put down by the fascist elites. Instead it was the complete opposite.
So your claiming you knew Franco personally by saying that he’s a monarchist since it apeares by historical records Franco once he won the civil war didn’t declare himself king or gave power to a king, also, do remember George Orwell was someone who was an independent author of a book who self said himself that he took place in little combat in the Spanish civil war and I do believe was either in an anarchist or Stalinist militia group. It’s clear Franco was nor monarchist nor falangist and the only reason that after his successor died he gave power to a king was due to the fact that he for one didn’t know that the king had been in contacts with the U.S. government and had democratic sympathy’s and 2, that he would as in the first statement lead Spain to democracy. Franco clearly only gave this power to this king due to popular support and having no one else to give the power to. Also do remember right wing radicals non monarchists in 1980 I believe attempted to coup the Spanish government, hereby showing that falangism as an ideology had not been eradicated simply in the aftermath of the civil war had no reason to engage in any more, the same can be said for the monarchist and any other civil war faction as they where all unified with Franco
@@darken2417 although I will admit this video and the scenario in it is not even a fraction of realistic.
Basically TNO Iberian Federation in our world
tno is the best mod ever
@@orangecitrus8056TWR is better
@@orangecitrus8056 clicking buttons simulator lmao
Calling Falangism "francos ideology" is absurd
Actually it's just fucking stupid
@@JustJoeKane Jose Antonio primo rolling over in his grave
@TisNotIMe right?! Or Ledesma especially!
You should research about proyecto Islero, the spanish nuclear program. It was close to be succesful and it even continued a little more during the democracy. In this alternative timeline it would have been an even higher priority for Franco than it was in the OT.
it was active since 1963 until 1987
Bravo ! I thought about alternate history for years now, but never such a scenario came to my mind, and masterfully developped i must say. Your channel is really great !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cool scenario and analysis!
But I really doubt Salazar could have accepted sush a union whit Spain. As you said, spanish desires of an united ibearia under Spain were well known, and feard, in Portugal.
Plus, there are all the other political and ideological aspects as you also said. For example, Portugal had a lusotropicalist view of the world wile Spain was much more focused on iberian unity (Portugal would not be welling, nor have the capabilities, to go help the spanish or the greeks, wile Spain would also not be welling to go fight in Africa for Portugal).
I also doubt the US would allow this Iberian Union to act too influentially in the African theater of war during the period of decolonization. They would likely always check the power of "independent" powers as they sought to maintain hegemony over the free world just as their chewish masters would want.
Im Portugues and can treuly say that even if Salazar had agreed to unification. The Portugues Peopel and also most likely Military would have not!
I mean even until today the Portugues are practising Cultural protectionism, with for instance Spanish Names Like "Juan" or "Diego" being banned from the Baby List! Substituted with the Portuguese names "Joao" and "Diogo".
Or with Locals to this day refusing to speak Spanish in Portugal with Tourists, instead switch to English.
The Only instance that the Portugues Would even cosider agreen to that would be to make Lisbon the CAPITAL of the Iberian Peninsula and to move spains Goverment there. Theoraticaly.
I mean that was what Charles the V. Promised the Portugues Nobels in the 16th.
What if Japan joined the allies and china joined the axis
Based scenario
Been waiting For this one! Thanks For this ❤❤❤
Honestly the fact that Spain hasn’t tried to unite the Spanish speaking world in our timeline into something similar to the Warsaw region pact or a EEC is astonishing.
Especially since many Spanish speaking countries share similar cultures, histories, and speak the same language it’s crazy to me they never united under a block like the Anglo or Arabic world.
The Hispanic world hates Spain. For obvious reasons.
There are some agreements but generally many people and some governments in Hispanic countries want nothing to do with Spain but rather stay independent or making the deals in their own terms at best
The main issues with that Is That Spain lost Its great power status when the Empire fell appart, there was no Powerhouse metropoli like britain left after the Empire; Once the breakup happened the colonies saw no good reasson to reaproach Spain and the Civil wars where far to bloody and Spain behaved too pettily (many latinamerican countries didnt even wanted independence, They had been begging Spain for reforms for decades and spain just told them to fuck off. As an example: México's war of independence was mostly won by the Royalist side under the comand of Agustín de Iturbide, but by the Time It happened the Royalist were soo Fed up with Spain that they agreed with the rebells to go independient, and still they asked spain for a Prince to rule independent México... Spain again refused and Iturbide was named Emperor of México therefore severing any chance to mantain unity) so that the relations were too broken for too long.
Also no other Spanish offshoot has been strong enough to Ennact a US-UK type relation, and with Spain not being strong enough to reclaim leadership you have equals who Dont want to accept vassailment to an equal. Maybe in 50 years México could take that role being a top 5 economy and having close to 160 million population (currently number 12 economy and 130 million people)
This would be an amazing timeline to live in.
Nice Portugal and Spain video
Damn that was good I didn't even know Portugal had such a regime
Hey US of Z, may You make another part? Time went flying hearing this alternative scenario which i didnt experience like 1 year ago. You make good scenarios that keep people's eyes withouth getting bored. Keep up!
As a Spaniard Franco was nationalist, not fascist. However I like this alternate state
Hope for a part two
Franco was not a Falangist.
Falangism is an underrated ideology
What if the boer republics were successfull
What if Ashanti had Industrialized?
Great timeline idea
This is a cool video and very interesting 😁👍
Nice work! Very creative. I'd like to see more focus on whether a pan-Iberic identity would actually emerge, or if Portuguese, Catalans, Castilians etc would still poke at one another.
Also, here's a potential scenario fer yez: What if Italy decided to sit out WWII and focus on their "Fourth Shore" project? How would that change Italy, the war, and the world?
the connected selection of arrows is a good choice for a flags symbol signifying strength and loyalty
What if Spanish-American War never happened?
Western Sahara was still Spanish.
Sounds like a blessed timeline.
Life could be a dream.
finally spanish alt history
Needs a part 2
What if the Celts remained dominant on the British Isles? or What if Serbia took only Greater Serbia after WW1?
The francoist Spain haved a nuclear project almost finished in this times.
But got cancelled by the good relations with USA.
In this alternative history, iberia very probably has nukes
As the leader of the Third World, they probably would.
and South Africa has developed nukes as well
South Africa developed nukes OTL so its likely a Francoist spain and South Africa share notes and possibly get it faster
So is this channel a team of 2?
One does Monsiour Z since it is a different voice and this is the other person running the alt hist channel ?
Franco wasn't an outright Falangist
Bad ending for Botswana 😢
Viva Iberia! What a football team we would have had... 10 world cups!
Franco wasn’t a falangist, nor was he the creator.
I think a what if on if Florida was never annexed by the US could be interesting
Saw the conflicts in southern Africa coming. Nice.
You frogot about the spanish colonies in Africa, the Spanish Sahara and the Spanish Guinea
Based timeline ENOSIS ELLAS MONO
Actually Franco wasnt supoosed to be the leader, but the two who where supposed to be before him died
Please make part 2
VIVA ESPAÑA VIVA CRISTO REY
@@robertwest6350 Viva la M U E R T E
VIVA ESPAÑA Y VIVA CRISTO REY
Nationalist-pilled Spain is based 🇪🇸🇪🇸
@@Localomii Its always the anime pfp people💀
Nationalist Spain will always be Based.
@@martinvyslouzil2163 cry about it
@@KolchaksGhost And the HoI4 players ofcourse
@@martinvyslouzil2163 ah he said it, he said it. Do you even know what hoi4 is?
Rather enjoyed this scenario. Pretty unique
Very interesting video. It has great details, such as the Iberian greater collaboration with the authoritarian regimes of South America and the white regimes of South Africa and Rhodesia, but in my opinion it would be greatly improved if you had decided that the POD was Franco's refusal to cede the Spanish Morocco to the Moroccan sultanate after the abandonment of the French (occurred in 1956), who intended to focus only on keeping Algeria as part of their territory.
In this way, Francoist Spain would join quite early and with greater intensity (since in OTL Spain helped quite a bit logistically to the Portuguese war effort in the Portuguese Colonial War, which only ended because of the stab in the back that was the Carnation Revolution, which not only led to the overthrow of the Estado Novo regime, but also to a hasty decolonization that led to the massacre of many pro-Portuguese natives in Guinea Bissau and other then Portuguese overseas provinces) to the Portuguese fight against anti-colonial movements (in 1954 Nehru's India invaded the small Portuguese enclaves of Dadra and Nagar Haveli, and in 1961 it invaded Goa, ending the 450-year Portuguese control over that part of India; in fact, some of the greatest Portuguese anti-guerrilla experts got their trial by fire with the guerrilla campaign that Nehru fomented to obtain Goa) with a cause that was extremely personal to himself (his meteoric military career, which led him to become the youngest general in Europe at just 33 years old, took place mainly in Spanish Morocco where he fought against the rebellious Rif tribes) and his comrades in arms (the vast majority of the officers who formed part of the Nationalist side in the Spanish Civil War had fought in the colonial wars in Morocco).
Since the Moroccan monarchy was a natural ally of the USA (Morocco was the first country to recognise US independence), Franco's hard stance would anger the US government, but given their strong anti-communism at the height of the Cold War, they could overlook this detail by claiming that their French allies were also doing the same with Algeria. In this way, American investments (including Spain's participation in President Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace project to promote nuclear energy) would not be affected by this disagreement (furthermore, the vast majority of the native population of Spanish Morocco was of Berber origin, while the majority of Morocco, which had just become independent from the French, was of Arab origin; in fact, in OTL, a few years later Spanish withdrawal there were Rif protests over the treatment of the Berbers and the Moroccan king put them down by bombing them with napalm; after that, many requested to be under the protection of Spain again). Moreover, in this way a strongly anti-communist Western country would dominate both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar, unlike the doubts that existed with the recently independent Morocco, whose many inhabitants were seduced by Nasser's anti-Western pan-Arabism (indeed, King Hassan II suffered two coup attempts against him by pan-Arabist high-ranking military officers).
On the other hand, neither the video nor its maps show that Spain still held the colonies that currently make up Equatorial Guinea (decolonised in 1968) and Western Sahara (in 1975 it was invaded by Morocco, which had already unleashed the Ifni War (1958-1959) over the territories of Sidi Ifni (fully surrendered in 1969) and the territory of Cabo Juby (surrendered to Morocco in 1958, considered by many to be part of Western Sahara)), while Portugal also held on to Cape Verde, Guinea Bissau, São Tomé and Príncipe, East Timor (all of them decolonised after the Carnation Revolution, except East Timor which was immediately invaded by Suharto's Indonesia) and Macau (handed over to People's Republic of China in 1999).
As for this Iberian unification, although I see it as highly unlikely that Salazar would accept such a possibility (In an interview he gave, he confessed something that he himself forbade to be published: "Without its overseas empire, what would this sandbank attached to Spain be, where a Spanish dialect is spoken?"), if it were to happen it should be noted that Portuguese autonomy would be more respected and that this could encourage regionalist movements in Galicia, the Basque Country and Catalonia within a strong Spanish nationalism that would accept a little more internal cultural pluralism as long as it did not lead to fostering separatism (As much as the Franco regime is criticised for its treatment of regional languages in Spain, in the last years of the regime it was established, for example, that Catalan language be taught 5 hours a week in public schools in Catalonia, when at our present, under the autonomous regime established by the current Spanish democracy, Catalan nationalists refuse to comply with court rulings requiring 3 hours of Spanish a week in public schools in Catalonia; Furthermore, on many occasions when Franco personally visited Galicia, the Basque Country, Navarre, Catalonia and the Valencian Community, he was greeted with banners in their regional languages and many of the plaques on infrastructures that he inaugurated were written both in Spanish and in that regional language).
Furthermore, the video could have mentioned the Iberian collaboration with the attempted coup in the late 1960s that some Italian military officers were planning to stop the powerful Italian Communist Party, seduced by the recent coup by the Greek colonels. As for greater collaboration with dictatorships and charismatic leaders in Latin America, the Argentina of the newly elected Perón could have joined this new international alliance, since he was exiled for many years in Franco's Spain and during his last months of life, President Perón was trying to end the leftist insurgency (his successor, his own widow, was the president who began to create paramilitary groups to end that insurgency).
Meanwhile, OTL Spain's main foreign policy concern was the recovery of Gibraltar, and in 1968 the UN passed a resolution urging Britain to hand over the colony to Spain, condemning the British-approved referendum to prevent it. Given that the video points out that this Iberia actively participated in the pro-Greek coup in Cyprus to have the island annexed by Greece, it could have been pointed out that Iberia has occupied the existing British sovereign bases on the island, in order to be a bargaining chip to recover Gibraltar.
On the other hand, one extremely important detail must not be forgotten: the Islero Project, the Spanish nuclear weapons project.
Ever since the news of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki reached Madrid, Franco had dreamed of achieving this kind of weaponry for Spain. To this end, he created the Atomic Research Board in 1948, but the economic autarky that Spain experienced due to the Allied blockade caused the atomic project to advance at a snail's pace, only gaining speed after Spain's participation in Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace project, with which the USA intended to normalize the use of nuclear energy while trying to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons. As a result of this plan, Spain became one of the European countries with the largest number of nuclear reactors at the Cold War, which led Spain to send many scientists to American facilities in order to learn how to manage these nuclear power plants. Taking advantage of this, Spain sent not only civilian scientists but also military ones, and when they considered that they had enough trained personnel (at the beginning of the 1960s), they secretly ordered theoretical and practical research to achieve nuclear weapons.
Although the project initially moved forward slowly, two events advanced it enough for Spain to have the knowledge to have its own nuclear bombs:
1) On the one hand, there was the Palomares incident in January 1966 (an American B-52 bomber carrying several thermonuclear bombs collided with its tanker plane in flight over Palomares, in the Spanish province of Almeria, causing the bombs to fall: some of the conventional explosive charges exploded without causing a nuclear deflagration, causing some nuclear contamination, while one intact bomb fell into a river bed and another intact bomb fell into the sea, being recovered months later). Before the Americans arrived to seize everything, the Spanish armed forces sent the scientific head of the Islero Project (Guillermo Velarde, who was the one who titled the program with the name Islero, the name of the bull that killed the famous bullfighter Manolete, since he thought that the nuclear weapons program would kill him because of the trouble it would cause him) to the area, investigating all the remains. With all the information gathered, Velarde was able to rediscover the Teller-Ulam process, the scientific process by which thermonuclear bombs were detonated, so Spain had the scientific knowledge to manufacture them.
2) On the other hand, Spain had a strong ally who also wanted Spain to be a nuclear-armed country: Gaullist France. At that time, Charles de Gaulle wanted Europe to have an independent deterrent capacity so as not to end up dragged into the Cold War confrontation between NATO (although France belonged to NATO, Charles de Gaulle withdrew France from its military structure in 1966) and the Warsaw Pact, which is why France successfully carried out its own nuclear weapons program (in 1960 happened the first French nuclear bomb test and in 1968 was the first French thermonuclear bomb test). To truly achieve this independent deterrent capacity for Europe, the Gaullists considered Franco's Spain, an anti-communist country that was not a member of NATO, to be ideal (furthermore, given Spain's recent isolation, in this Franco-Spanish alliance, France would always be the senior partner). To this end, they offered to build Spanish nuclear power plants using French technology, which could produce plutonium as nuclear waste, one of the two perfect types of nuclear fuel to create nuclear bombs.
In our OTL, the project made great progress in the theoretical aspect thanks to the discoveries made in Palomares, so Velarde presented his secret findings to Franco, who ordered the project to be halted in its practical aspects due to fears that the Americans would discover them and initiate an economic blockade that would end the current Spanish economic miracle (apparently Franco was convinced by his Minister of Industry, who frightened him with the possibility that the West would blockade Spain again as happened in the early post-war period). However, in the early 1970s (taking advantage of the fact that Franco was increasingly delegating his iron control over the government to his number two, Admiral Carrero Blanco), Velarde was ordered to resume the practical aspects of the Islero project on the condition that it would not require too many funds that would require Franco's approval, taking advantage of the fact that Spanish nuclear power plants were already being built with French technology.
Given Spain's greater diplomatic independence in this alternative history, Franco would not be convinced by that Minister of Industry (probably bribed by the Americans) and would not halt the progress of that project, which could set up the creation of Spanish atomic bombs before the first India bomb test (after all, India was the first country outside the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to successfully test its first bomb in May 1974, culminating a nuclear weapons program that began in the early 1960s) or the death of Franco himself, which occurred in November 1975.
Furthermore, since in this alternate history Francoist Spain/Iberia would be strongly allied with apartheid South Africa (who in turn was allied with Israel to advance their respective nuclear weapons projects), this could further advance and ensure that Spain would be able to successfully test its own nuclear and thermonuclear weapons before Franco died in November 1975. Perhaps the Vela Incident (considered by many to be the joint nuclear test between Israel and South Africa in the southern Indian Ocean) that took place in September 1979 would have taken place earlier thanks to the support of this Francoist Iberia, which would carry out its own nuclear tests in the then Spanish Sahara?
Very based nationalistic timeline
Botswana having their democratic government replaced, destroying one of the best examples of a post-colonial state, is very sad to me. They probably get put under a White apartheid regime that just turns them into a glorified colony of South Africa and Rhodesia.
Justice for Botswana 😢
@@DeanMonsieur legitimately though I really liked this scenario!
How are South Africa and Zimbabwe doing under african rule today?
@@Gigadoomer13 how well is Botswana doing?
@Gigadoomer13 Zimbabwe is doing quite good under the US dollar, you’d be surprised, there’s quite a reason why you never see Zimbabweans move abroad, as they have pretty much the living standard of Botswana, and one that is rapidly growing
South Africa’s case is a little different though; the influence of powerful foreign companies is something which still shapes the country. The disparity in wealth is pretty high, as most of the population doesn’t actually get back much. For example, the company “Anglo-American”, which still siphons billions in natural resources every year. However, they are a quite stable democracy which is becoming more and more free, and these issues and other meddling seem to be getting better: the future is looking prosperous for both of these nations
14:41 Fogot Western Sahara and Ecuatorial Guinea. Spain also had these territories in Africa.
This will be interesting. Also can you transfer your alternate history videos on your main channel to this one?
¡Arriba España! 🇪🇦🇪🇦
@@CidGaditanissim De Espanha nem bom vento, nem bom Casamento;)
Abraços de Portugal 🇵🇹🤝🇪🇸
Please make a part two 🙏 video for the What if the America was never colonized? video of Monsieur Z. E.g. by adding a "Salish League'' as a country in the Pacific northwest & Arawak Kingdoms in South America.*
Another interesting scenario kind of reminds me of a Mussolini stays neutral timeline keep up the great work man🙂👍
Part 2 please?
Hmm, imagine if this also happened in a timeline where Italy was either allied or nuetral during WW2.
Nice
Spain: Well, it was costly in many ways, but now Botswana is pacified. Still, our relations with NATO aren't the best, but we are yet to anger them in any meaningfull way. So... we are fine... as long as no one in the organization bothers them directly.
Argentina: Question.
Spain: What's your question, son?
Argentina: I declared war on the UK.
Spain: What?!
Argentina: I felt ready to do so.
Spain: With what goal?
Argentina: I want nothing but all Britsh colonies in the south atlantic sea.
Brazil: But where are all our special forces?!
S.A: ...
*Freedom noices in the distance*
There is no way Iberia would sanction that.
Maybe the Falklands never happens, and Maggie gets kicked out of office early?
How many times do actual right wingers have to tell you this!
Franco. Was. Not. Fascist!!!
He was a Conservative at best! A reactionary fool at worse. You’re starting premise completely invalidated this entire video
Thats Bullshit. Nearly Every single on of these new Axis paowers were faciist dictatorships in real history. Spain and Portugal send even soldiers to fight for Hitler. Some of the last defenders of Berlin were offical soldiers of spain and portugal.
What if Vatican II never happened
I think Argentina in the 60s would be a flashpoint between the OIR and the USA, rather than a point of cooperation. The juntas ruling Argentina at the time were staunchly anti-peronist, while Peron, a figure much more sympathetic to Franco, had taken asylum in Spain after the 1955 coup. If the US and Iberia were to cooperate in South America, the only way I'd see that happening is if the US and Franco negotiated with the juntas for a re-legalization of peronism and an earlier return of Peron to Argentina, potentially helping to stabilize the region. The 1976 coup after Peron's death might still happen, as it was initially done by peronist military as a response to communist insurgencies, though Iberian support might've kept the junta further away from American influence, and might result in a much more complicated situation if the 1982 war with Britain still happens.
Franco wasn't a fascist, he hated their socialist views, thats why he was pro monarchy
A better world
You didn't mentiion Spain's miniscule colonial possesions such as Spanish Sahara and Spanish Guinea.
Please make a part two 🙏 video for the What if the America was never colonized? video of Monsieur Z. for instance by adding a "Salish League'' as a country in the Pacific northwest & Arawak Kingdoms in South America too.
The Philippines under Marcos, Taiwan under the KMT, and even Morocco could have been good allies here.
Japan is planning to create its own Asian NATO
Russia would join post '91?
Doubtful
maybe in 2022 lol
Someone needs to do a timeline, story, book, fnfic or HOI4 mod of this.
What if the city of rapture was real and it either avoided its civil war or Ryan won it and he announced the city of rapture to the world at the end of the Cold War?
I think he would’ve done it because he built rapture to avoid nuclear apocalypse though I think in this timeline Ryan would view America as a authoritarian state from the one he once knew and he might actually either set his sights or open trading to Russia that is his homeland and just got rid of communism
Hell Russia in a post Soviet era might embrace Ryan’s ideals and views
Just an idea
Idea: What if Italy formed an Empire like Germany instead of a Kingdom like they did in OTL
YOOOOOO BUDDY.
You Forgot the Malvinas War between Argentina and the uk.
Franco's ideology is caracterized by national catholicism instead of falangism
This could happened if braganza gave up portugal to spanish bourbons .
Franco will collaborate with Salazar
“What if NATO was fascist?!?” Already is.
Trvthnvke
No, it wasn't, nobody in NATO is an outright dictatorship or corporatist.
But Portugal, for example, which was a founding member of NATO, had a military dictatorship...@@coltydoodledoof8237
I always wonder for the existence of a large West and East Germanys during the Cold War. Say the Allies split Germany in half according to the 1939 German borders when they invaded Poland. A larger West Germany could play a bigger role in NATO or in the EEC. East Germany would be like a main guy for the USSR in Eastern Europe. After the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO and Europe could decide whether to allow German unification or have the two states separate.
Alaska video please.
IT WOULD BE KINO
UNITED IBERIA? IS THAT TNO REFERENCE????
Never played HOI but it can be if you want it to
@@DeanMonsieur I was joking. Great video!
I'm not seeing them hold on to any of the colonies. If it was quickly becoming too expensive for the Portuguese, it's not going to become any cheaper to the Spanish.
What if the Ottoman Empire industrialized, or won the battle of Vienna
😢 fascist spain couldn't even allie with andorra not less Portugal, the popular revolt would be inminent 😂
Neat
What if the Fashoda incident led to war between France and Britain?
This very good alternative timeline. It could be.
But happy didn't.
What if anarchy took over
yes to this but ending with carlist iberia
What if Algeria was successful settler colony?
Who's gonna tell him?
All my homies love Frasisco Franco. ✝️
Just a reminder guys: fransico franco is indeed dead
That is indeed true
He is literally alive
Just checking in if he’s still dead.
Vive en nuestros corazones
Reminder that the Nationalists were the good guys
First off Franco and Salazar never were fascists, never! Second this "union" could never be a done deal, there is no way you can invade and keep Portugal with weapons and repression, been tried, does not stick, ask Napoleon.
Did you watch the video?
Was Franco a Falangist?
fellationist*
No
Funny idea I thought of. Why don't you make a video of an alternative history of an alternative history. Example Fuherreich that and how people in a world where Germany won WW1 think what it would be like if the Entente had won WW1. For example, you (from a universe where Germany won the Second World War) would talk about a theory of what it would be like if Germany had lost the Second World War. For example, you would say "We all know that Bukharon becoming leader of the Soviet Union led to the Soviet economic collapse that led to his defeat, but... what if, through a small change, the Soviet Finns took power, making global socialism gain more strength, making Trotaky took power and invested in the exercise with communist movements taking control in Brazil, China, Chile and Nicaragua and we know that Charles Lindenberg won the elections of 40, leaving the US in a war with Japan (which we ended up losing even more by continuing). ) we are going to make Smedley Butler carry out a military coup that almost happened and we are going to make the USA intervene in the War at the end of 1940 and we are going to make the prominent politician Arnold Lesse win the emergency elections of prime minister in 40 and make the United Kingdom become an Utranationalist state making moral English became high and making a "Cruzade" against false facism and after years of war in 1949, 3 nuclear bombs were dropped on Germany and 8 on Japan with the beginning of a three-sided cold war, the first the United States bloc which would include Japan, Canada, Mexico and some countries. from Arabia and Asia. the Communist bloc led by the Soviet Union led by D. S. Mirsky and declared the Eurasian soviet Socialista Republic since Trotsky was assassinated in 44 by a Mexican spy, China led by Zhou Enlai and the only major communist country in the Americas, Brazil led by João Amazonas. And the Utranationalist bloc led by the United Kingdom who are led by Oswald Mosley that became prime minister in 1945 who managed to maintain his entire Empire including India which was kept under control because the British ordered the death of Gandhi and Subha Sandras Boshe in 47 and France led by Jacques Doriot who managed to win the Indochina war with British help and Italy, which remained neutral throughout the second war until 45, where Mussoline ordered war against the false fascists in Germany, where they managed to hold the front until 49, when the war ended. Mussolini died in 48 by a Heart Atack and succeeded by the Fascist Mysticist Nicolau Giani who managed to stabilize Italy and Germany that is ruled by Josef Mengele. So this is the end of another video. In the next video we will see what would have happened if Stalin had continued his political path and not become a priest"
If you're reading this and say it's unrealistic...you are complety right