Here's Why People Detransition
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- #shorts
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I've watched over 30 detransition stories. Zero used lack of support as a reason.
Do you understand the difference between what you’ve done and a scientific study?
@@SciGuys I'm only stating that I've watched 30 individuals. None pointed to this reason.
@@SciGuys Where's the scientific study claiming that most trans people detransition due to a lack of social support?
I've heard countless stories of people who have decided to detransition because they were manipulated by doctors and the media that they were transgender.
@@nickperetto8009 thank you
@@SciGuys do you understand the difference between a scientific study and the anecdotal evidence the blonde in this video provided?
Like it or not gender dysphoria is what makes someone trans. If someone transitions and doesn't have gender dysphoria it could and most likely will ruin their life. This is why detransitioners are going after the medical industry, not the people they know.
Saying people detransition because of lack of support is like saying you quit videogames because you had nobody to play with
Are there studies showing that having no one to play with is a common reason for quitting video games? If not, it’s not much like that at all.
@@SciGuys Most people I've seen talk about detransition are talking about medical malpractice, not that they're not getting support. Once trans always trans. If someone detransitions then there's a high probability they've just never had gender dysphoria and were just manipulated by doctors. Trans people are highly unlikely to ever detransition even without social support, it doesn't really play much of a factor if at all.
Would it surprise you that doctors get payed extra to put people on pills? This isn't really a well kept secret either
So you’re taking anecdotal evidence of people you’ve found online, and ignoring studies that have spoken to many more people in a systematic way?
What you’re saying here seems to have no basis in data (or the lived experience of many, many trans/detrans people)
You mean doctors in the US? I sincerely doubt the NHS is forking out extra cash to doctors to “put people on pills”. So I hope your corruption explanation works within socialised healthcare systems.
That’s not true?? Not everyone who’s trans has gender dysphoria, and it’s not what makes someone trans. That’s very discrediting and disrespectful to many trans peoples experiences
I’m trans nonbinary I have NO dysphoria
@@ramennoodles2589 no I am trans lmao. You don’t get to decide for me. Your opinion does not matter to me or anyone around me that has the same opinion as me.
Either that or they were misdiagnosed which is frustratingly common in a lot of detransitioning stories.
People who were not trans were made to believe that they were when it was something mental instead of the physical disorder that being trans is.
Common in stories told online, but not necessarily common overall. Definitely there are people that transition who are not trans, but here we were talking about the most common reason (according to best available data)
@@SciGuys It's not just online these are stories going back decades.They're only told a lot online now because there are more people online and it's the primary form of communication.
So how do you explain that not being the case with the largest & most reputable studies?
@@SciGuys It's a mix of both this and the reason in the video, not either or.
No one is saying it’s either or? We’re saying the reason in the video is the most common based on available data…
Or maybe they realized they weren’t actually trans. Just like how some people who thought they were gay, actually weren’t.
Except transitioning isn’t reversible.
If you were smart and looked at the date you'd realize that just a very small percent of people detransition because they weren't trans. A lot of them do because of economic and social pressure
There are people like that yes but it’s less than one percent who transition
@@AnarchoAngel Social pressure is why most of them do it at all.
Maybe instead of just looking at stats, you could try watching videos on YT from them and listen, in their own words, why they transitioned/detransitioned.
@@wheelstypebeat The fact that it’s not zero should make you at least _question_ whether all (or some) of the progress made was good.
@@himwhoisnottobenamed5427 your logic doesn’t make sense please try explaining it again
I think some people can realize that transitioning for them was a mistake. But that doesn't mean all trans people resent doing it.
I've never heard this being the case.
Maybe a perceived 'lack of support' is the person getting offline and interacting with more diverse groups who do real life-- friends, activities, family, work (not just lgbtq folks who make their sexuality their entire thing). Few people have time or interest in supporting a cause all the time.
It isn't lmao. They keep spreading lies and trying to supress the actual stories/truth of detransitioners since they see them as a threat to their cult like ideology.
I have seen a lot of detransition stories and in all of them the issue was the lack of support BEFORE the transition. They just realised the issue lay elsewhere and they weren't trans.
As a detransitioner who considers retransitioning, I can confirm this can be a big factor.
I wish you all the best, whether you retransition or not💙🩷🤍🩷💙
What I would like to know if the women parts aren’t the ones defining a woman then why are trans women changing their parts? It’s a genuin question and not an argument.
they may have dysphoria which is an incongruence between their body and how they feel inside. dysphoria leads to a lot of distress that can lead to other mental health complications like anxiety, depression and suicidality. But many trans people decide not to transition, whether it’s because of financial concerns, or that they don’t have dysphoria. you don’t have to have dysphoria regarding your body to be transgender, so a trans woman who decides not to medically transition is still a woman. hope this helps! /gen
These comments are nuts
So easy
but that still isn’t the only reason, many people also realize it’s not who they are, but lack of support is a reason for many, but not all!! :D [I stopped transitioning very early due to lack of support, so im an example!!]
Because they realize it’s a demonic spirit that’s trying to steal kill and destroy them but god came into their lives to heal them from
Their traumas and to make them realize it was all a lie from the devil . It’s that’s simple . And I pray for every person from the lgbt community that they realize they are children of God and not a worldly demonic label .
Lovely story you’re telling there
So an unnamed lady in an unnamed clinic talking about unnamed people? Sounds convincing to me! This is what? The secretary? The lady who answers the phone and schedules appointments?! Not sure I’ve ever told the lady at the dentist, who lets me know I can sit down and look at a magazine, my dental history and home life situation.
There are also a few studies which show this, that was just an anecdote…
i detransitioned bc i realized that’s just not who i was
Exactly!
Me too. I went from female to demigirl to non binary to demiboy male to gender-fluid to to non binary to female and finally demigirl. It took a while but I found myself. Some People take a long time to find their gender and that’s ok.
@@iceypoppyygirl wtf you’re just a female? “Demi girl” is SO sexist. So you think bc you’re not 100% feminine that means you’re not 100% a woman? Yall are regressing us and reinforcing gender stereotypes. For god sake there’s no wrong or right way to be a woman or a man
People I know detransitioned because they realised that transitioning didn’t fix what was wrong
This video irks me because one of the main reasons Ive seen from ftms is realizing that they transitioned due to internalized sexism and often times homophobia or trauma. I finally got my detransition video made and posted and it wasnt the lack of support that made me detransition it was that transitioning didn't cure my dysphoria but psychedelics and true self acceptance did
Its also funny to talk about the gender clinic saying that they see people detransition and then later come back stating that was their reason. Well yeah a detransitioner who no longer feels the need to transition wouldn't be coming back to the gender clinic for hormones? I emailed the clinic I went to about my detransition since I wanted them to make a note in my file that I detransitioned so I wouldn't be apart of the "happy with transition" statistics but I never got a reply back and many other detransitioners just ghost these clinics when they stop hormones
This is such a lie. I detransitioned because transition made my dysphoria WORSE. It made me fixated on my body in ways I never had been before. I became obsessed with "passing." It was exhausting. I just became tired of everything. It felt like a big act, and I was constantly lying and talking up how great it was, too. After some major experiences, I genuinely don't feel like I want to be a man anymore, and I'm content as a masculine woman.
That’s perfectly valid! Your experience & this clip don’t contradict each other
thats because you have body dysmorphia. Not gender dysphoria. when you dont feel something or as the other gender, it doesn't make your dysphoria worse. so you never had gender dysphoria. this is not a lie and your experience does not contradict 97% of the people who are trans and are happy with their transition.
Same
I want to ask you, do you think an alternative treatment for gender dysphoria could be like tolerance therapy, like you go to therapy and learn to tolerate being the gender you are born with with the therapist instead of transitioning?
@@StonedTotheBones0000how can you just tell someone on line you have never met what condition they did or did not have?
From all of the detransition stories I've heard on here, it was because they realized they weren't trans. People have talked about how they confused their sexuality and gender identity, or trauma and gender identity, during vulnerable times in their lives. Perhaps there are people who detransition in a medical sense due to lack of support but because the word detransition refers to people who realized they weren't trans, this might make people feel like you're invalidating them. There needs to be room at the table for both trans and detransitioned people to be accepted and validated for who they are and not erased.
Yeah, stories people choose to share to further their own adjenda aren't the best source for the truth. Only 5% of detransitioners do so because it wasn't for them (about 0.4% of trans people).
90% of detransitions are because of pressure (school, family, etc)
@@cielbie8251 That's the same type of stuff I hear about trans people. It just sounds like a way to invalidate people.
@@KristinNirvana If 99.6% of trans people have a positive opinion of their experience transitioning, it makes it one of the most successful procedures of all time.
Focusing on those who chose to detransition as an argument against transitioning is ignoring the sheer success of transitioning in general.
In comparison, cosmetic surgery, which has next to no barrier to entry, only 31% are happy with the results.
@@cielbie8251 That's assuming that the statistic is correct.
I'm obviously not using it as an argument against transitioning. I'm nonbinary. Don't use people like me as a way to discredit detransitioners.
@@KristinNirvana The statistics are relatively similar across all the countries involved, Sweden, UK, USA, netherlands, etc
Yeah, its always better to improve regret rates, but for some reason people only care about the cases where people regret their surgery if the surgery was transitioning.
Despite it being one of the most successful surgeries.
It seems for any other surgery, people respect their autonomy as adults that are able to make their own decisions.
Interview a person de transitioning
First off, we don’t really “interview” our guests - so that would be a massive break from the format. Second, we are working on a detransition episode, and absolutely will have a detransitioner guest join us.
Okay cool! I’m not real sure how you pick out your guest but are you going to make sure it’s specifically someone who has this type of story? Or just any person who has detransitioned regardless of why.
@@SciGuysso your going to have a guest & not interview/ask them questions?
Sure, this might be some people's reason, but to frame it like it's everyone's... talk about misinformation!
We didn’t frame it like everyone’s?
"sci guys"? You really claiming to have something to do with science?
Yes, a 2021 study based on the 2015 US transgender survey
@@SciGuys Trans rights🏳️⚧️
It's not just because they don't have social support.
No one said it was “just” because of that. The video starts by saying “some people” and then goes on to say “quite a lot”.
@@SciGuys The video is titled "why people detransition", then only gives that one reason. No other reasons are mentioned in the video. The title of the video is misleading if you mean to highlight that there are other reasons why people detransition.
@@SciGuys The video is literally titled "Here is why people detransition".
If it was titled, "Here is why SOME people detransition" then your reply would hold water.
@@bannannamilkshakez2907 what study is this and where can I find it?
@@bannannamilkshakez2907 i amb interested in this study, could you be so kind to let me know where i can find It?
I never medically transitioned but I did socially transition and lived as a trans male for 3 years. For some people, dysphoria is the root of all their other mental issues. For me, dysphoria was a result of a lot of trauma and mental issues. For me medically transitioning was not the right route, and it instead worked that I went back and tried to deal with the trauma and pain I went through. “Going back” before medically transitioning is called desisting. I am no longer dysphoric, and I’m still dealing with a lot of mental stresses. I’m so thankful that my parents were with my on my transition and my desisting. I also want to note that this is not everyone’s experience. Many people do experience similar things, but everyone’s transition, detransition, or desisting circumstances are specific to them. We shouldn’t put everyone under an umbrella dictating “the reason why”, as if it’s not more complicated than that.
@@marioluigi9599 huh?
@@cruzgomes5660 No… The point was that some people think these kinds of stories are the majority & that’s likely due to sampling bias, since we have data that shows otherwise. These stories still matter. These people still matter. Of course they do.
@@SciGuys please cite your sources.
@@bannannamilkshakez2907 I am curious to know what data you got that can refute their "sampling bias"?
@@tknows470 please cite YOUR sources.
That’s a lie. I’m detransitioner and it has nothing to do with less support.
“This is a lie because my individual experience doesn’t conform to the statistical majority”
We’re not saying every detransitioner does so due to lack of social support, just that the data shows this as the most common reason
@@SciGuyswhere are these statistics coming from?
@@lillypilly6440he will never tell u the source of his statistics n irony is his channel's name is " SciGuys " 🥴🤡
@@SciGuysThere are no statistics that support your theory; conversely, there is much more evidence from national health organizations that show detransitioners are often misdiagnosed as trans.
@@SciGuysyou are ridiculous. The numbers are rising by the minute. The majority of the population is not trans. That is a fact.
Shouldn’t detransitioners be asked this question?
they have been, in the study that we referenced. this is just an anecdote that aligns with those findings
@@SciGuysplease link the study, I’d love to see it. Lol
@@SciGuys I really can't with these blatant lies 😂
@@SciGuysI would love the link to the study!
i’m now detrans after two years of being out as trans. the reason i thought i was transgender in the first place are for the reasons followed:
- sexual abuse trauma
- body dysmorphia
- neurodivergence (autism/adhd)
- self-hatred as a girl
- social media’s influence
i had support, whether i was transitioning or detransitioning, i was supported any way.
I’m sorry that was your experience! We’re certainly not invalidating that, just talking about the best available data pointing to lack of social support being the most common reason :)
@@SciGuys You can play ignorant and disguise it all you want but the fact that almost all of the comments on this video are disapproving with this clip and are taking it as an invalidation to real people’s experiences with de transitioning should tell you that even if you didn’t intend it, the comments made are most certainly invalidating. If you really did care about this coming across as hurtful and invalidating, instead of leaving hollow replies as a form of apology you would have simply deleted the clip or edited it, which you haven’t.
Don't think we've apologised for lack of clarity? The title doesn't say "all", so it's not really talking about every person who detransitions. To be honest, the assumption that there is one singular reason for every individual who detransitions is... kind of ridiculous? So making the assumption that the title refers to all detransitioners seems pretty bold.
Although, even if someone were to make the assumption, it is clearly stated in the clip that this was not about all people who detransition. More than once.
We've read the replies & most criticisms come down to "this invalidating bc it isn't the only reason people detransition". Given that was never said (or even implied), it's hard to make the case that the video is invalidating for making the claim of this being the sole reason.
The replies aren't apologising for the video... Saying "sorry for your bad experience" is an expression of sympathy for difficulties someone has faced, not a confession of wrongdoing.
Hey, I am at a moment in my life where I am quite confident in being trans, but I also recently „found out“ that I have adhd, could you explain the connection here? I am still in the figuring stuff out phase and would appreciate the input.
@@velvet_violetDude imma keep it real. Real studies show the detransition statistics are low. And even more so it's due to lack of social support/ medical support. For example, if I had to stop taking hormones due to a medical complication I would be considered a detransitioner in alot of studies. Tranphbia is completely rife. I'm assuming most of these comments are tranphobes who have nothing better to do than to lie and even if it isn't true it doesn't matter because the evidence points the other way.
I used to think I was a boy, but that was only because I was kinda tomboyish and a lesbian. I was trans for 6 years. I stopped because I realized I wasn’t trans, not because no one was supportive.
That’s totally valid! We never said that experiences like this didn’t exist!
@@SciGuysyou're implying it
@@GeminiPlatypus where?
Kinda sounds like what I’m going through right now except I haven’t detransitioned and it’s definitely not because people haven’t been supportive
It’s crazy how many people have the exact same story as yours in this thread. Do you feel like you were somewhat pressured to transition or was it completely your choice?
I’ve lost all respect for you guys, this is such a lie
This is literally based on the best available data
No, that's because this is a clip. The references can be found in the description of the episode itself, which is linked in the description :)
@@SciGuys well, your "clip" presents nothing more than anecdotal evidence and an outright lie in its title - saying "here's why people detransition" and then only citing a single reason which is, in fact, not the only reason people detransition, IS in fact lying. source: me, a person who used to identify as trans, and who stopped identifying as trans for reasons other than of a lack of social support.
The video itself says:
"Here's why some people detransition..."
"Quite a lot of people detransition due to..."
The clip doesn't say it's the only reason.
@@SciGuysyou’re a joke.
the reason i transitioned was because i wanted to escape my body (detransitioned now) i went through trauma as a child and i didn't want to be associated with that person i was anymore. so i thought how i felt was me having dysphoria. which wasn't correct. something didn't feel right after a while and i wanted my feminine body back and i started to feel more feminine in general, this was because i began to heal from this trauma, although one thing i kept the same after i transitioned was my name. having a different name from birth has made me a different person to who i used to be. hearing my birth name triggers me as i associate it with my previous trauma. but being female and looking at my body now as a female makes me so happy and i love the way i look. whilst i was transitioned, i was supported by all my family and friends, so this is not true at all.
It was stated multiple times in the clip that this is the most common reason, your experience being different doesn’t disprove that at all, because at no point did anyone say your experience wasn’t valid or possible.
@@SciGuys it was stated, 'lack of social support.' meaning those around me wouldn't have supported me due to the transition, which would've lead me to my detransition. i had many many people around me that supported me, but it was within myself which it didn't feel right at a certain part in my life. that's what ultimately lead me to detransition.
Yes, it was stated "lack of social support" was the *most common* reason. Meaning you having a different experience is both possible & entirely valid. It is not making a universal claim about every single person. Heart disease is the most common cause of death in the US, that doesn't mean no one can die from anything else...
Your experience is 1% of 1%, while valid it doesn’t disprove the data
@@SciGuyswhat evidence is there that lack of support is the most common reason apart from Noah saying that it is ?
Channel -Says "We got this from studies". Everyone ask for studies. Channel - 👻🤫😶
Our sources are in the description of every episode
@@SciGuys pending?
@@PettyMurphy If these sources are so important to you, go watch the episode, noone's stopping you.
It's funny how you COMPLETELY INVALIDATE AND DISREGARD experience from real people that detransitioned and Noah even attacks them since it doesn't suit his narrative.
We’re literally using the experiences of people collected & analysed in scientific studies…
@@SciGuys cite studies .
@@SciGuys still no studies? I'm a physicist, an for every single statement regarding physics I can cite you at least one study or point you to college textbook.
Go to the main episode. Look in the description.
Did you look in the description of the full episode?
And you called yourself science guys, there's nothing scientific about this video.
People can say they experienced ROGD, that’s fine. Near enough the entire scientific & medical community has dismissed it as the studies were pretty poorly designed.
Not sure where you’re getting that we “hate scientists that question [our] opinions”?
As for the first comment… This is a Short. A 1 minute clip from a much longer video. We’re a comedy/science podcast - we cover science topics but every word out of our mouths doesn’t necessarily have to be strictly science, we are allowed to tell anecdotes, jokes, etc. Regardless, the anecdote is backed up by data…
Hmmm sounds like they were never trans if they needed social affirmation to transition.....
If a gay man goes back in the closet due to discrimination does that mean he was never gay to begin with?
Goodness me, I think you’ve misunderstood. The point is that people may change their public presentation due to lack of social acceptance, but that doesn’t necessarily mean their previous presentation is automatically invalid.
You’ve presented a different scenario here. I’m talking about a gay man pretending to be straight due discrimination. You’re talking about a straight man actually being straight. I’ll respect whatever someone identifies themselves as…
Not how that works but okay continue adding to the cesspool of ignorance that plagues this community of individuals
@@SciGuysI don’t think a gay man has ever gone “back in the closet” because we already know he’s gay. That’s not a fair comparison and different to someone completely altering their body.
I had a teacher who literally TOLD me and made me believe I had to transition causing me to change my name and hate everything about myself. I lost several years of my life worrying about stupid things and now am working to detransition myself.
that teacher needs to be investigated.
@@pabloescobarschanclas unfortunately he moved and I don’t know where he is cutrwntly
Jesus Christ
Thank goodness there’s normal people in these comments 😮💨
On fucking God
But.... that's not the whole story. There are clear examples of people who authentically regret after having support in their transition. Those cases this person mention do not account for ALL of them. Saying all detransitioners them transition back because they get support, is just like the right wing saying all transitioned then detransition because they get support. You can't just claim things and make them universal.
This video began with “some people” and the actual clip began with “quite a lot”. We didn’t say all detransitioners do so for the reasons outlined. :)
Actually, as he said here, there’s only data from these clinics. It doesn’t count for those who drop off and stop the HRT without telling their doctor.
Yeah my clinic ignored the email I sent them about my detransition 😐 I wasn't asking for an apology or anything just for it to be stated in my file that I detransitioned and I never got a response so I have no idea if they even did that for me or not
The 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey (USTS) was online and anonymous
Womp womp! Amazing comments! This girl is delusional
Was the study only performed on transitoners who detransitioned and then retransitioned or went back to the gender clinic... because that is a sure fire way to make the study show results you want.
Because transitoners who were mis disganosed and found out they were cis are unlikely to go back to the gender clinic and take this survey so...
Your survey could be extremely biased and surveys aren't the best type of way to perform research, despite how commonly used they are, so take a step down from your high horse.
You're clearly here to push a narrative instead of find the truth through unbiased data. Your study already feels tainted imo
this is insane. love you and noah, i think you both are a cute couple and amazing people, but lack of support is not the reason. human mind is complex and the way these therapists and surgeons just diagnose people as trans without caring about other factors like autism, adhd and a 100 different reasons why they may feel like they are trans is insane. again, love you but you kinda missed the mark with this short video.
“Lack of social support” is one of the most common reasons cited in the 2015 transgender survey. According to best available data, yea it is the most common reason
@@SciGuys i hope you realize how much has changed since 2015, thats not accurate at all...
@@ajlee2168 i hope you realise that they said best AVAILABLE data
@@wheelstypebeatIt's not the best available data. It's just the most recent data that fits their narrative, and the fact that it's 8 years old speaks volumes. The number of people transitioning since then has skyrocketed.
Since 2017, the number of people identifying as trans has more than doubled in the USA, and in the UK it increased 1000% for males and 4000+% for females, and that's just between 2009-2019. The reason most people detransition now appears to be because they realised they were coerced by social media and trans activist content while they were still an insecure kid who wanted to fit it (according to a lot of detransition stories online).
@@crystal4911 you can’t take some people’s opinion and present it as fact at the end of the day the majority of people who transition don’t regret it
A lot are afraid to detransition because of lack of support.
What do you mean
Source?
That can be true, for the same reason some people are afraid to transition in the first place.
Okay yeah but...people can still detransition from regret lets not push a group of people under the rug (i support trans people 100% but as someone who thought I was trans and realizing im not its so unfair to ignore 😭)
Saying that something is less common isn’t pushing it under the rug? Of course realising you’re not trans is a valid reason to detransition…
@@SciGuys it wasnt even mentioned
Except it was mentioned… “quite a lot of people detransition due to lack of social support, rather than not being trans themselves”
Not being able to continue a transition is not the same as detransitioning.
Hey, I first medically transitioned at age 12 and later detransitioned because I regretted it and wasn't actually boy. I socially retransitioned later on and then went fully back to female after realizing that I was simply uncomfortable with my chest, yet was still a girl. I will always be a girl/woman. Where is my reason for detransition, because that reason is stated by tons of people who have detransitioned. My detransition was never reported because I never returned to the clinic at all, why would I? I just stopped taking the medicine.
Your community loves to say that things aren't all black and white but when it comes to detransition it seems to be black and white to support your cause and ignore people confused and suffering from its unclear definitions. Your gender role doesn't have to match your body, men and women can be, act, dress themselves however they want and are-despite their gender. You are NEVER going to feel comfortable during puberty, NOBODY FEELS COMFORTABLE AT ALL. I had to look for the reason why I hated my chest and accept it rather than take the seemingly easy way out and get rid of it.
Thank you for this comment! Children simply aren’t capable of understanding their own feelings at this age. Nobody feels good during puberty, everyone feels ugly, awkward and like they don’t fit in. Parents are convinced to go along with it because they love their child and are told their child will commit self delete if they aren’t allowed to transition. I’m sorry for all the pain and suffering you have gone through and for the continued dismissal of your very real experience.
@@tknows470I’m not sure that’s even legal to medically transition at 12?? I swear you have to be an adult or atleast 16+
oops didn’t mean to reply to you I just meant to reply to Og comment
@@V1DE0-STARZ Hormone blockers. I was prescribed Lupron at Children's Hospital after a short 'evaluation' (they only asked me stereotypical questions; e.g."were you girly when you were younger?").
@@Disgruntled_Canadian oh that’s interesting
It's equally important to talk about de-transitioners who couldn't afford to keep transitioning and about ones who made the wrong choice by jumping into transitioning too fast, often being misinformed about the risks of the transition and often looking for solutions for their mental health issues in transitioning. Everyone should be thoroughly examined before transitioning and everyone's choice afterwards should be respected.
Well said. There are also many effects that aren't known health-wise. They made me and my friend extremely sick. He ended up taking his own life due to the medical issues from transitioning. So, even if it's what someone wants, it isn't always a good path.
@@IsaacUncooked Yes. How come people admit that some may regret plastic surgeries and that it's a serious choice and at the same time picture transition as something which if someone dreams of, they cannot change their mind.
But there arent examined thats the problemmmmm
Source? I mean this guys is just speaking out of his ass here, didnt even give an example, just generalized about "a lot of" detransitioners. If you truly wanna be trans, why does suppourt and affirmation from others have anything to do with it?
2015 Transgender Survey - it’s literally on the Wikipedia page for detransition
@@SciGuys Some people just don't want to learn, just hate.
So the actual problem with this data set is not that the phenomenon of detransitioning due to stigma isn’t real, it is, it’s that the sample size is only accounting for trans people who still identify as trans and actively still belong to the community in order to participate in the study despite detransitioning temporarily.
The study itself doesn’t account for former trans people who detransitioned permanently and no longer belong to or interact with the community, hence, all of the former trans people in this comment section who are upset and don’t identify with the findings, because the participant pool itself is biased and could never have included them or someone like them.
The study is based on the 2015 Transgender survey. 8% of respondents had detransitioned (“gone back to living as sex assigned at birth, at least for a little while”). This dwarfs any reasonable estimate for the % of “permanent detransitioners”.
This reasoning is also a fairly significant factor (present in around 29% of respondents) in Littman’s study, which almost exclusively looks at people who have permanently detransitioned.
Looking at detransition as a whole, it’s fairly safe to say that lack of social support is likely the most common reason.
@@SciGuys going from an over 80% confirmation through your preferred survey down to 29% in the Littman study is a pretty significant disparity and suggests that we might need to do a lot more research before coming to ANY hard conclusions about what the data means.
@@SciGuys also, if we want accurate data on this, the study has to differentiate between people who temporarily detransitioned versus people who permanently detransitioned.
A valid data set can’t just mash those groups of people together and treat them like they’re the same when they aren’t.
It didn't go down, they're essentially 2 different groups. One is looking at temporary detransiton amongst trans people, and the other is attempting to look more broadly, but is biased towards "permanent" detransition (largely due to Littman's sampling methods & the fact that she has a reputation for being anti-trans). The data isn't directly comparable, but if you read the studies there are ways of making some comparisons.
Littman's study had 100 respondents - it was posted in many online detrans spaces (along with some trans spaces, from a few of which it was almost immediately removed). The 2015 transgender survey had over 25,000. Given that 8% of those respondents detransitioned (and still ID as trans), and no good estimate of "permanent detransitioners" remotely reaches that percentage - it's rather clear that the number of trans people who temporarily detransition is greater than the number of "permanent detransitioners". If we're talking about detransition as a whole it would be rather silly to view these figures in series, or give them equal weighting.
Differentiating between "permanent" & "temporary" detransitioners is harder than you'd think. You can only have data on how they currently identify, but it's perfectly feasible for someone to believe themselves to have permanently detransitioned & later decide to retransition - once external factors change.
I won't argue that more data would be brilliant - but the issue is that there's no solid basis for the claim that there's a massive increase in detransition due to folks being coerced into transitioning in the first place. The best available data points to detransition as a phenomenon largely being due to external pressures, rather than not actually being trans.
"transition from one gender to the other"... I thought the new definition of "gender" is what people perceive themselves to be in their heads. So are they transitioning gender or sex?
There are social aspects to gender - one isn’t changing the internal experience of their gender during transition, they’re “changing” the gender that others perceive & interact with them as. Of course, this is a simplification - but the key point is that there’s more complexity than one might initially expect
…so are they changing gender or sex?
@@alidarkangel4226neither, I would say. Gender is not changed, as it's your inherent identity. Sex can be partially changed however you define it, like hormonal make-up, having specific sex organs (not every trans person wants or does changed that parts), your voice can be changed (vocal training). But transition is more "fitting" the internal experience to the outwards expression.
For outsiders it looks like changing from one category to another that's where the term "transition" comes from. That's the social aspect of gender, because others expect "men" (not knowing how their body down to the chromosomes is composed) to look and behave a certain way compared to "women" ☕
If you socially transition you literally just change your behaviour, clothes and presentation and people understand you "changed" the category.
El sexo es imposible de cambiar... Lo marcan tus genes... Se puede cambiar la apariencia física pero geneticamente el sexo es imposible de cambiar.@@mousethehuman7179
I detransitioned because cisnormativity just makes more sense. Less anxiety plus since detransitioning (I'm MtFtM) I don't even think about gender.
what’s MtFtM
amab to female and then de transitioning back to male?
also what’s cisnormativity
Hey are you still detransitioned?
@@connor5669 yes
@@V1DE0-STARZ cisnormative is their language. I was being tongue in cheek.
@@kellymarieapplebee oh that's definitely the reason why I transitioned. It never addressed my underlying issues.
6 years post HRT and I'm happy and healthy as a man.
This is false. The stats he speaks about relate to much older trans patients. These do not relate to the current trend amongst young children and adults. Infact if they don't detransition most end up committing suicide due to feeling mutilated in their mind and now bodies.
Nope, this is pretty consistent regardless of age. Even Littman’s studies show that people feel social pressure to detransition
Not me. I didn't have support to be my birth gender
Dang…I’m really sorry to hear that. Thing better now or still trudging along?
Health issues is a big reoccurring theme too. Lack of social support doesn’t make sense since many blend into society which is the whole point.
According to one of your replies, this claim is backed up by a 2015 study which you refer to as "the best available data". In the past 8 years the number of people identifying as trans has skyrocketed- It has almost doubled in the USA since 2017. In the UK it has increased 1000% for males and over 4000% for females between 2009-2019, and has grown even more since then. With this huge rise in people identifying as trans since 2015, it's not crazy to suggest that the reason so many people are *now* detransitioning may be because they followed this social contagion and later realised they were just an insecure kid who wanted to fit in (that's what the majority of detransition stories online say anyway). Many detransitioners say social media and trans activist content coerced them while they were still young and vulnerable. Maybe use more up-to-date sources next time.
Sure, but recent studies haven’t shown that either.
Also… there weren’t really any reliable & more up to date sources with this kind of info at the time? Littman’s studies have pretty clear bias in their methodology. There aren’t really a huge amount of studies on detransition in general. When it comes to looking at the reasons, the 2015 transgender survey *was* the best available data.
Since you’ve read the other comments I’m sure you’re well aware that drawing conclusions from detransitioners on social media is a pretty poor way to go. I’ve know plenty of detransitioners whose stories are completely different. Makes sense that the ones that go viral have shocking stories.
Realistically though, the idea that trans people are a social contagion or that kids are coerced into transition en masse, is pretty much nonsense. I’d question how one could coerce someone via content, seems difficult to force someone to do something when you don’t know they exist…
That 1000% & 4000% isn’t an increase in trans people across the board… It was the increase in the number of referrals to the Tavistock GIDS. In 2009 they had 97 referrals total, which then increased to 2,728 by 2019/2020. Given that being trans became far more accepted by general british society over that decade, it would make sense for the referrals to increase.
That’s ignoring the fact that referrals don’t even mean someone will end up identifying as trans. Not everyone that was referred ended up transitioning or identifying as trans…
This is not anecdotal. Lets hear from some of these people.
So far those i have watched tell their de transitioning stories have not mentioned lack of social support as a reason for their decision.
Because most people change their mind as they mature. Self acceptance is an actual thing on the biological and mental level, not to mention the complications and lifetime maintenance factors. Cost/benefit becomes important as we mature. Support has way less to do with it. Belonging is a basic human need for everyone.
It's probably more like this, I was only a kid and my parents wanted me to wait until I was older, not what this person is saying
Except data supports what was said in the video
This is so sketch…. I expected they would offer a real story or data, his source is some anonymous woman he spoke to.
Yup, this is an anecdote. The source is a 2021 study based on data from the 2015 USA transgender survey. This is a clip of a much longer video
I cant speak for anyone but myself. I detransitioned because I realized that I didn't want to be on hormones for the rest of my life what I was doing was unnatural. Having a gender affirming bottom surgery scheduled scared the crap out of me. Thank God I didnt go thru with it. What really made me change my mind was my fascination with nature, holistic medicine, and how the human body works. Nature dictates ultimately what sex I was born as. Taking hormones and disrupting the natural process is very unhealthy. Gender affirming surgeries are dangerous and dont change what sex someone is. Period. Allowing children to take these pharmaceuticals and permanently change there anatomy with surgery before the age of 18 is wrong. So no, it is not that we are not accepted in society, because I was actually the happiest that I have ever been living as a woman, but because most de-transitioners just realize it is not for them
Something being “unnatural” is a terrible argument. Children dying of cancer is natural, treating them is not. Should we let them die? Posting a UA-cam comment is unnatural, but you seem fine with that…
Taking hormones is “unnatural”, sure, just like taking literally any drug is unnatural - but it’s not inherently unhealthy.
@@SciGuysits just their personal experience, also treating something as serious as cancer should not be compared to taking puberty blockers and testosterone to change your gender which isn’t possible you can not change what your body biologically is
@@SciGuys cancer is not natural. So you are incorrect. The things that causes cancer at the highest levels are things not found naturally. Radiation for example. There is a reason people living deep in the jungle don’t have these issues you guys are think is a real health concern.
Are you gay or straight?
@@SciGuysLow Iq argument
But all this transitioning back and forth must surely be destroying their bodies. It's actually scary
Scary for you, maybe. Transitioning can be life-changing for trans people.
@@SciGuys I understand that but I worry for people about the long term effects of it. My sister is adamant she is going to Thailand to get bottom surgery and I'm worried she may regret it later in life as she isn't fully aware of the risks. This comment isn't a dig at people who are transgender (my sister is and I fully support her) I just worry about the many people who regret it and the long term damage it can do
It’s not really for you to worry about, particularly if you’re going to say things like “surely be destroying their bodies”. If you care about people’s wellbeing, you should maybe consider how the things you say will affect them.
@@SciGuys in pretty sure it is for me to worry about when it's my 9 year old sister who's brain is not fully developed. I would rather hurt her feelings a little bit rather than her make a drastic life long decision that she regrets. You have argued with literally anyone in the comments who doesn't agree with you. I am not arguing anymore with someone immature who is offended by everything.
We’re not offended? Of course we’d contend with the people commenting that we disagree with…
A 9 year old would not be given the opportunity to make a “drastic, life long decision” - given of that age children don’t really have access to medical transition of any kind. Has your sister shown any signs of gender dysphoria or trans identity? If not I’m curious as to why you’re so adamant that you protect her from this…
If disagreeing with someone is tantamount to offence, then surely you are immature and offended by everything?
OR...or....it's a bad idea in the first place and doubles your chance of suicide
That’s… not how statistics work?
I hope my tax dollars do not contribute to this gender clinic
It’s in the UK, so I’d expect not. They do contribute to gender affirming care in America, though
@@Disgruntled_Canadian that makes me sick! I identify as skinny now pay for my lipo!
Your tax dollars literally pay and fund war crimes and a prison system that doesn’t work, yet your mad they go to healthcare doing what it’s actually supposed to do, you know, helping people who need medical care (which a lot of trans people do!)
@@Twink6629-lg3te healthcare that put people in for a lifetime of pills, depression and illness with no cure or help, creating irreversible damage on people especially young children's life.
Such great work
@@bancatorres2455 What?
I don’t believe this
The great thing about science is that it’s true whether you believe it or not :)
@@SciGuys this is not science
There are literal studies on this... It is certainly science...
@@SciGuys I fucking love you guys
"I have spoken to some poeple some years ago and they said" - sorry but that is not scientific
No... It's an anecdote. An anecdote that was told because it aligns with the data
@@SciGuys And why don't you present the data then?
We mentioned the data in passing, and our guest told us this anecdote. This is a short clip from a much longer video.
@@dominikhk9134 You transphobes are fucking illiterate. It is obvious that this is a clip from something larger, so why not go watch that thing if the data is so important to you.
Ockham's razor : the simplest explanation is usually the best one. They were never trans.
Occam's Razor isn't about simple answers, it's about answers that require the fewest assumptions. Given that we have data showing that many people are pressured into detransition, it would be a pretty big assumption to claim they're all lying & were never actually trans
Totally made up scenario
Keep telling yourself that :)
The complete shitstorm in the comments is the real entertainment here
Right why is everyone so mean
@@idktbh.2421fr everyone is like OOOO TRANSITION BREAKS YOU, like even if I did something shit I’d rather it be me that do it than not being able to choose and then regretting it later still, like there are big decisions in life that people need to do and it’s normal to make mistakes with those decisions
Negative I don’t know where he gets his information from but I’ve seen tons of detransition vids & 99% say they made a mistake & feel horrible about it. Nothing about not having support in fact a lot of them have tons of support they jus feel bad about reversing the decision they made. You jus don’t want to think that ppl are truly regretting becoming trans & it’s a reality whether you like it or not.
We got our info from a study, you watched some videos online. We also never said that no one regrets transition, we said they’re not the majority
WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE GETTING BUTT HURT OVER THIS VIDEO?? Words people, listen to the words they are actually saying...
Let me spell it out to you: @SciGuys said "Here's Why SOME people de-transition back to their original gender." and the other guys said "QUITE A LOT of people de-transition Etc.". The words "some" and "quite a lot" are subjective so there is not a meaningful value placed on the amount they are referring to. It could mean a very small minority, or a vast majority; 3 people, or 100,000 people.
This is a case of saying something, while not really saying anything...
You all are acting dumb, stop being reflexive with your thinking and be reflecting on your previous assumptions.
Yes the clinic that is funded by people teansitioning deflects when people bring up detransitioning 😂
The clinic is funded by the NHS…
I’ve never herd that account from detrnsitioners.
And yet many have given this account, maybe you’re in an echo chamber?
@@SciGuys an “echo chamber” growing larger by the day increasingly by detrnsitioners.
Detransitioners with a very specific viewpoint. Maybe expand your horizons and seek out those that don’t already align with your preconceived notions. There are plenty of detransitioners who *do* have the account stated in the video, it’s a wonder you haven’t come across them
@@SciGuys I have listened, have you? To my ears, detransitioners carry the strongest argument against adolescent transitions. Then couple this with the pharmaceutical and medical institutions to rack up profits in steering children in this direction, it becomes quite abominable. Tavistock, case in point, closed down by NIH and deemed unsafe for children. It was a puppy mill for transitioning surgeries
Again, you’re listening to an echo chamber. You’ve admitted to never having heard an account that data shows is fairly common. I have clearly heard both kinds of account. Maybe your conclusion based on limited data is wrong
Because it’s painful, it’s confusing and depressing. Don’t ask me about my life
ok i wont ask you anything.
but can i ask u how is your life? if not then why? 😂
The first guy says "detransition back to their original gender" like it's the most outrageous, weirdest thing ever, like he was offended people would detransition.
No he didn’t
@Sci Guys Well that's how I took it based on his tone, inflection, and body language, so it's a matter of opinion, not fact.
Your opinion on his feelings is wrong. Source: the man himself. Fact is, your interpretation of his tone, inflection, and body language is not reflective of his actual opinion.
@@SciGuys the fact is that people are going to interpret body language and tone in different ways so get used to it lol. I now understand that you are not disgusted by people detransitioning, but that's how it came across to me. Why are you so defensive? 😂
“So get used to it”. All that happened here is you claimed he was offended at detransition & I corrected you. You then went on to say it was just opinion, I again pointed out that your opinion on his feelings was wrong. People can interpret things however they like, it doesn’t hurt to let people know when the assumptions they make are wrong
I’m not the guy you’re referring to & I’m really not being defensive. I’ve just corrected you.
what in the coping gymnastics is this people detransition because they thought wrong super easy
So you want to ignore studies because the idea you came up with in your head is simpler?
If you go to the full episode (linked in the description) you’ll our sources. Regardless, it’s fairly easy to find detransition studies - you can use Wikipedia as a jumping off point as it has a number linked in the sources of the detransition page.
If this was true, couldn’t you say there are many trans people who transitioned because of social support/pressure?
no there’s zero social benefit to being trans. it makes it way harder to go out and socialize, especially in the beginning
If people are willing to de-transition that means their gender dysphoria isn't that strong. Logically thinking there are no trans people who would even think to transition back if their dysphoria is too strong. Maybe they don't have any support but you wouldn't give up your transition if you are super confident about it. Don't tell me that they don't have any support when they transition before.
You can make up stories in your head but that doesn’t make them true. Why not actually look at the data?
@@SciGuys so what does the data show actually? I'm willing to see it. But if it doesn't make any sense it doesn't matter anyway. You realize that it can be anything that drove the de transition. Lack of support is a super absurd excuse to de transition honestly. I'm trying to find the logic here. So it wouldn't hurt anyone if I'm being skeptical about it.
Wikipedia is an easy place to start, there are links to a number of studies & it explains it in pretty plain English. You can use that as a jumping off point to find more information elsewhere.
I detransitioned because of a deep regret but can't do anything now, i already cut my p3nis off. I wish i never did this.
I decided to not transition because I realized I’m not trans.
Anyone who has ever meet an actual person who has had this issue knows that often matching your body to how you feel doesn't always work. Its actually a really complicated problem and studies show that living as trans isn't the solution for lots of people. Thats why so many are detransitioning.
Detransition rates are generally below 5% & of those, the most common reason for detransition is lack of societal/social support. That doesn’t invalidate those who detransition bc they’re not trans, they’re just not the majority
Here's the truth: Most adults don't have support.
Guy in the video: *talks about one of the many possible reason people might detransition*
People in the comments: "😡😡😡😡😡😡ACtuaLLy..."
Well cause we keep getting silenced by the trans community and the only time they have something to say about us is when it fits their skewed ideology lol
Science, would require supporting evidence, not just accepting a personal experience.
You might want to look at the work of Dr Lisa Littman, who has worked with deTrans.
Anecdotes are not that good, however Littman's study has a lot of flaws on her study, one of being the sample group/population of the study that it's completely biased.
Cheers 🥂
@@theweightlifter0004 How is it biased?
@@neildunford241 The studies were made asking to the parentes, not the actual people.
And the sample group(the parents) wasn't just some random group of parents it was from websites like transgender trend, 4th Wave now and so on.
It was a biased sample group, not a random one.
Cheers 🥂
I dont think thats the main reason. And these people never say lack of support was the reason. Many just transitioned to jung got pushed by friends or family and now regret it.
Yeah, people like to focus on the detransitioner who do it, because they realised they weren't trans, even though most of the (few) detransitioner don't even do it because of that. I'd find it horrible, if i'd be a detransitioner and than would be used as an argument by transphobes. And for everyone wanting to transition it's obviously horrible as well
I destransitioned, because the fear of other people. Everyone knew. My school obviously knew and I got picked on for it, and my parents (my mom) seem to my supportive of anyone else but myself.
So with no support and my friends not really helping, I detransitioned but I still feel like a boy and I hate it, and I’m so excited to get older just to live how I want, I’m in my mid teens now.
Or... Hear me out.. they just weren't trans.
Or... Hear me out.. everyone has a different experience, so using the excuse that "some people weren't trans at all" as a way to discredit every trans person is stupid.
@@Sirblobfish9906 not at all what I was saying. I'm not discrediting anyone. Some people detransition for no reason other than they simply... Weren't trans. Lmfao. They gave transition a try and didn't like it. They explored their gender and decided they liked it better before. You're making the inherent assumption that everyone who 'transitions' in every case is going to like it and spend the rest of their lives (or at least long term) living as that gender. That's simply not the case.
@@gamer1X12 I misread your comment then. Obviously some people transition without being trans, but I thought you were using it as a reason to oppose transition. If that wasn't your intention I sincerely apologize.
I also know someone who transitioned, then de-transitioned, then re-transitioned but it all left them with medical issues.. And in the end they realized they were non-binary (and this was YEARS before any sort of awareness of non-binary being a possibility).
@@marioluigi9599 No it's not, they are still non-binary and have been a trans activist for most of their life, they're even in politics here in order to be able to represent the trans community.
It's not craziness and if you think being trans isn't real then you clearly just don't know what you're talking about.
Your response signals to me that you don't know any trans people irl and are completely ignorant on the subject.
@Ethertask Sebastian No, they are non-binary, they identify that way now and they've been fighting for trans rights and even changing laws in my country.. I know them because my parent is trans and that's how I was introduced to them.
They had their name legally changed to be 'vreer', a Dutch amalgamation of the words 'woman' and 'gentleman'.
Mind you, I'm talking about an older person, they had surgery decades ago when it wasn't such a streamlined process.
@Ethertask Sebastian Are you okay?? You seem a bit pressed.. Or just brainwashed into a religion, anyway, good luck with figuring it all out because I don't think you have the slightest clue of how gender works.
@Ethertask Sebastian How did you even get to "gender roles", I'm talking about GENDER.
To explain it simply: Your sex is defined by the genitalia you're born with, gender is how you identify (female, male or non-binary) and gender roles are a social construct based on arbitrary old-fashioned rules and concepts.
You're welcome for the lesson.
Before starting bullshit rants maybe try learning a little bit about a subject before you start throwing around terms you clearly do not comprehend.
Have a lovely day.
This is fucking nuts!
Wtffff! That’s whack! Correct me if I’m wrong but is he saying that people transition and then detransition and then come back a 3rd time to transition again and blame not having a support system the first time around so they are now ready to
Transition a second time? 🤯
This is soooo wrong is so many levels.
I'm a detransitioner myself and I know many detransitioners with the same story as mine.
None of us detransitioned because of the lack of support, infact the most common reason was that the person realised that they weren't actually trans and finally learned to accept their biological body. I did too.
Many of us are also usually neuro Divergent and body dysphoria is quite common. In fact I got all the support I wanted to transition, and also had the support when detransitioning.
But I also noticed that my trans friends started to distance themselves from me when I wasn't trans anymore and just a 'cis' (god I hate this term) woman, accepting friends they were.
@@Penelope_777 sorry, do you mean my comment is so wrong or the video? I’m just trying to understand the video. I find it a little confusing. It sucks that your friends distanced themselves from you, they should respect your decision and love you for who you are.
@@DynamiteDB I meant to say that the information this video is giving is misleading, nothing against your comment ☺️
@@Penelope_777 no problem ☺️.
So is he a detransitioner? His one time conversation doesn't prove anything. How about making a clip of a detransitioner on the topic?
His conversation isn’t proof, no, it’s an anecdote that agrees with the study we briefly referenced in the full episode
A clip of a detransitioner would prove exactly as much his conversation
I think everyone has different reasons for why they did it.
Yes, but this is the most common one according to best available data
You do not need social support in order to be Your authentic self! You just are….
Detransition back to their original gender? Does this mean they changed genders? How is that even possible and why don't trans people just change their gender? That would be a lot easyer than undergoing hrt and surgery and all that stuff.
In this instance, "detransition back to their original gender" is referring to presenting & living as the gender they were initially assigned at birth. HRT & surgery go hand in hand with this, as they change one's physical features to align with one's gender & alleviate dysphoria.
If you look up detransitioning ANYWHERE, you're pretty much going to get the videos/articles showing the ones where they detransitioned because they weren't actually trans. If you try to find shit, you'll end up finding shit. You can't use that as "evidence", it's literally just the website giving you the most popular thing.
Im sure there are lot of people like this but lets be fair to the other stories out there
No one is saying there aren’t other stories, we’re saying that most seem to be like this. That doesn’t invalidate anyone else that differs
@@SciGuys seems like you're failing to mention that what you said of here isn't the bulk of cases, why shed light on some and not all in the same sentence? Give everyone a fair shout out its not hard if you're fair minded yourself
Actually it seems that external pressure is one of (if not the) most common reasons. That was mentioned in the episode.
@@SciGuys external pressure can come in all forms, maybe this lack of acceptance they feel comes from the fact that they struggle feel like either gender truly after transition. Im not saying that this is all of the cases but it would be an external form of pressure to be talked about so people can not be caught off gaurd and maybe figure out a way around it that keeps them happy too
@@SciGuys i would say the strongest forms of external pressure are both the people who are scared of trans people, the people who hate them for no reason and then the push for transition acceptance towards children also causing pressure to transition without taking too many aspects into account. People are more getting caught off gaurd by predictable circumstances that jusy simply don't get brought up enough to people befire transitioning. I hope that makes some sense, its just an opinion im building recently after doing more extensive research on the subject.
If i actually became trans i would have detransitioned
Just love how everyone has all the answers these days
There's way more stories than this, financial problems, figuring out they're not trans- there's a lot
Financial problems falls under socials support - but regardless, we didn’t even remotely imply in the video that this was the only reason
That's crap.i didn't need support from friends and family, I was going to transition whether they accepted it or not.
That's not exactly what social support means in this context, it's more about societal support (healthcare, protection from discrimination, etc).
It's great that nothing could stop you from transitioning, but you are not every trans person and some people will be hindered by barriers put in place by our society.
Taking a break or planning ur next transition step later is not detransitioning tho…right?
Thays not the only reason why people detransition tho ofc...
No one said it was