Beware of the scams bots. If you thought any of my ideas had validity, a share would be appreciated. Maybe. Just maybe. We could get this in front of bungie with enough press.
The more barriers and stuff they put in our way to hurt us is what keeps us away. Funny that the same reasons this game has people staying away are the same for the american people and the laws and companies and rules and stuff are meant to hurt us more than help us. On top of that the money gets you out of these problems so most of us are kept in the pooper.
Bruh if YOU managed game design I would play the games that studio put out. You have a head on your shoulders that would truly dominate gaming, attract MORE players to games thus getting more sales. Idk if it's something you would ever consider trying to go into but I'd be here for it!
Not as talked about, but I think nerfs that completely kill builds, weapons, and exotics massively hurt the game. This also leads to our constant wack'a mole style of updates to pvp. People invest time and resources into getting good with a particular build just for it to be taken away. I use to love loreley + my glaive, both of those are useless now because they were nerfed so hard, but against the new hunter threading spam it would feel on par. Not only would crucible be more balanced, its would be massivly more fun if you werent forced to change builds because your previous one was NERFED. Not that something else was better, but devs artificially nerfed it. THATS the problem. sure there are stand outs like mountain top / shatter dive, but outside of instant kills, there truly aren't many outliers devs should ever be worried about.
Here are my totally unqualified opinions on a few of your ideas. Disclaimer: I haven't played destiny in a long while, and not consistently for years. Giving super energy to those joining late is something I've always been asking for. Never very publicly, but I'm glad to hear it. I love the idea of spawning heavy closer to the losing team. I realized I was upset about it, but I never considered blaming the mechanics and instead got frustrated vaguely or with the enemy team. Map voting is an interesting idea. I do think it'd be best implemented via two specific choices and 1 random. I like your comparisons to what COD does right and what has made it consistently successful. I think caution must be taken when discussing stronger anticheat. I already think the kernel level anticheat is a problem. One tactic I like is taking power out of the cheaters hands. Take Titanfall 2 for example. Wall hacks, auto-aim to an extent, and extreme movement are all already game mechanics. The idea of gamemodes is easy to like but not necessarily successful. It's very difficult to go from idea to fully playable, bugfixed, and live gamemode. It also does add additional things to test and watch for emerging bugs. As a developer, I wish I could make more people understand that features require support indefinitely, not just while making them or shortly after. I really like your unique take on ability spam. Airborne Effectiveness is bad, hard agree. I'm probably being a doomer here, but I don't think most of these would ever be implemented, because I don't think the people choosing the devs do and driving the course of the game *care* about making crucible good. The layoffs and historical apathy are evidence of this to me. Still I enjoy your takes and wish for the best. Even if my more depressing predictions are true, this is an excellent case study.
When I did play Destiny, this was my reasoning for not playing Crucible. I'd get 3 to 4 good to great matches where I felt like I was having fun, then boom. 10 more matches with terrible teammates and enemies way outside my skill level. It's not fun to play a game casually then have to get sweaty and pop off or do better just so I can feel like I'm still having fun.
This has been my general experience for years, not a recent thing, I would get at best 1 win every 10 games, I wished I was lying...My success rates would only very slightly improve when Iron Banner comes around. I don't have any opinion in Trials which I assume is far much worse.
this mm is like cold war or bo4 mm where you’re the good person your team, there’s one good person on the other team. now you two have to battle it out to see who can carry the hardest. d2 pvp is like that now
Facts. It also sux after you have those 7 terrible matches. They throw you in a in progress match where your is already in a stomping mode. Then back to 7 more terrible matches.
right? i think he misses the point completely, people don't need to be reminded what they're missing out on, cuz its nothing. The issue is the rewards are nothing, not that the players need a reminder. This whole video is a miss IMO.
It's funny and sad how destiny 1 had a much better reward system for PVP I'll never forget screaming in joy whenever I got a exotic after a random match
@@heartbae87 You can get exotics from pvp as well because of the weekly rewards for doing ritual activities. You can get exotics anywhere which kinda took away their value. I mean... there's nothing which would be rewarding enough unless they would add a weapon which is gonna be 1 of a kind like Cataphract GL3 from trials was.
I have a badass, wired Google Fiber account I'm connected through. I absolutely am NOT having "connectivity" problems. And yet I get booted from games about once a day, and yesterday got my first "time out" for 30 minutes because of it. THEY have problems that THEY do not want to admit. So they're blaming US. I'm not okay with that at all.
Which has always been a case. Sometimes it is an individuals situation outside of their power, or they are just someone with a basic type of setup. But when it's the game itself well it's sad to say, but a lot of the time the devs won't say it is on their side
Similar here. I'm hardwired to my router and I still get told my connection sucks. Its not MY fault YOUR servers suck eggs. It even happens when I'm just sitting in orbit too. Which is a problem I very rarely had in D1 or even before WQ released for D2. The game has just become a chore to play because of constant error coding.
Got similar issues with Halo Infinite the last time I played a few weeks ago. Why do modern devs have such a hard time making reliable servers? Both Bungie and 343i have this problem from my and many others' experience. Who knows how many other AAA dev games have these terrible server issues?
Yeah I just laughed as he said players need to be reminded what they're missing out on if they quit a match, Bungie hosting cash prize PvP tournaments 7 years into the game and how "absurdly popular" a 1v1 comp playlist would be. I need what this guy is smoking...
If bungie wants to suspend quitters they need to address how slowly post-game rewards drop. I caught a 5 minute timeout the other day for leaving the lobby after the game was over, while the post-game summary was on screen, seemingly because rewards hadn’t dropped yet.
I noticed how slow the post game summary loads in PVE too. Sometimes the screen where you give commendations just shows the loading icon and the timer counts down and completes before you can give commendations which you need to get the weekly engram.
@@larryboylarry5557 bandaid solution because bungie surely wont fix it, you probably already know this though. Hit R2 to go onto the scoreboard screen and do it there. I hate when this glitch happens but its a good way to get around it
Had my first game in a few months with a blatant cheater while doing a pathfinder quest the other day. Everyone on my team said to leave the game, and eventually, everyone did. Went to que up for a different gamemode and was told I had a 5-minute ban for leaving. It was literally one left game, and I was banned, crazy stuff.
Getting super energy for joining a game already in progress is something I've been internally screaming for so long. It's so, so awful joining a losing match, getting killed by three or more supers in a row, and having nothing you can do to hit back.
Don't forget one CRUCIAL thing too, you are FORCED into the crucible at times to complete quests, many of which can be started entirely outside of PVP to get certain exotics, and there's no way to "Ignore" quest popups so you can constantly have shaxx/drifter annoying you on the map So you get people like me, who basically only play PVE, that have to suffer through PVP matches to finish various exotic quests or catalysts, and there are many more who go "I'll try it" and then leave almost instantly So there's not only a penalty problem, and an incentive problem, but there's also a major game design problem in the form of "Surprise Crucible" where PVE or Seasonal quests suddenly require crucible to complete, which leads to a lot of Idlers/Leavers/Throwers/etc.
This. I have many catalysts uncompleted because they require kills with that weapon that is no longer meta and almost useless. I will never be able to complete seasonal triumphs or the challenges and get the grand prize because it requires PVP play. Nobody wants to spend hours upon hours getting slaughtered in PVP modes to complete something. Not fun at all.
And another issue is “I need weapon in PvP to catch up PvE meta" For me is mountaintop(when forsaken era,unlock progress were mission impossible for low-skilled PvP hater) and riptide(Fxxxing large perk pool without luck protection),literally a pain in my ass.
I just give up when I see a catalyst or exotic quest that requires PvP. I think the last one I did was either for Ticuu's Divination or Dead Man's Tale...if I didn't like them as much as I do, I would never have bothered.
Not just that, but crucible should be a place where you can go be silly and do dumb stuff if you want in party modes. The whole focus on trying to make the crucible play like trials and comp is killing it. Not even the more sweaty players want to break themselves on that hill.
10,000% exactly this..I (had) lots of unfinished catalyst because I refuse PVP and i need pvp kills. so what I did was just make a private match and took turns killing each other so we both got our catalyst done 👍
The one thing a friend of mine(the one that got me into Destiny years ago) told me, and it has stuck to me throughout my 5k hours into this game is that: the reason why D2 pvp sucks is because back in the day, Halo pvp was built as a party game , with fun as the main priority, and as players got better at it, they became more competitive. Destiny 2 however is the exact opposite, it was designed as a competitive game(mainly for the e-sports sphere) first without focusing on the fun factor. So essentially "The game was rigged from the start" in that they approached the game with the wrong mindset, yet they keep telling us that they know better than we do.
Other reason why Halo did well is weapons were even across the board for everyone and no one started with special weapons, they had to be grabbed at spots on the map. For D2 that isn't the case except with certain exotics. A 1v1 with a rose for example can be tilted one way because one has the god roll for a rose and the other has a crap roll let alone what armor stats they have. MMO pvp always has that issue of if you are lucky on drops/rolls of gear and weapons then you get a leg up in pvp which creates a built in unfairness that gets compounded by those with more skill as well which is a big reason folks do not like crucible then add in stuff you can only get by playing pvp (exotic quests/catalysts/best in category guns) makes for a miserable time
Solution DO NOT BAN PLAYERS FOR LEAVING CASUAL MATCHES, if leaving ranked or competitive matches bring the hammer but my god casual fun is dead, also i love alot of your ideas but sadly your applying logic to the destiny commission remember how D1 went with exclusive cosmetics tied to trials and hard mode raids the community scream instead of trying to improve.
even worse you have to wait like at least a full minute after the match ends to even back out to go into matchmaking again or continue a trials card, i flawed a few cards in the last few weeks like that, its just plain absurdity
They did this in trials. Initially, i completed matches by jumping off the map when it was obvious that my team didnt stand a chance to win 1 much less 5 rounds; after weeks of no changes to broken weapons/builds and constant 1 sided stomp matches, i and my friends stopped caring, we'd just close destiny mid game and go on something else, i play the game to enjoy myself, as do most; so in a game in which the result of a match is often determined by bungo matching a team one with way higher skill to a much lower one, why the hell would i keep playing when im being held prisoner in a match i cant win when im trying to have fun? On the contrary, if the game had instead offered me a reward for sticking around, then i'd have been way more inclined to. Now implimenting this into casual? And at only a 20% leaving rate? That's leaving 1 in 5 games; that's pretty much what i'd expect to see from a dad playing the game. Hell, most players will only play 5 or less matches a day, so they can't even leave one match a day without a ban, im not sure if this company is dying or killing itself
I’ve said it a million times add a fking forfeit system bungie. I don’t care how many times you ban me I’m not waiting 5 rounds of getting farmed because you look at my stats and decide to put the shitiest teammates imaginable on my team.
You know what could be a cool mechanic for late joins. Making a player who joined late a "play maker". A play maker would spawn with a super ready to go or heavy ammo or making them score more points giving them a chance to turn the tide. Perhaps this is a better idea for games that are being snowballed and closing in on Mercy ruling.
@@davidzrescalante503 Just make it so if you rejoin the same match you quit out of, you don't get the boost again. D2 rarely puts you back in the same match anyway (except when you least want it to).
@@SaltSpirits that and the absolutely abysmal resource economy on that game. I could go on a text-wall rant of how bad so many systems are in that game. I played warframe for half a year when i started, but the forced grinding and 1GB update spams made me quit.
I’m not one to leave matches but there’s really nothing to be missed by backing out. There is no loot. No rare Crucible drops. Nothing. Just some XP, the occasional worthless piece of armor, and a bad roll on a bad gun. Matchmaking has felt awful for a few seasons. Additions like Sparrow Control are not even half baked. It’s just a bug they made into a “game mode”. They let the “core” modes of this game die and acted surprised when players drop.
I got dropped into an ongoing 6's match yesterday that was 27-88 and it dropped me into the losing team. I left immediately and got suspended for 15 minutes. Good shit.
basically me in almost every fucking match in control. I'm not saying I'm amazing. but I play the objective, I got a 2.18 k/d. but the enemy team lately almost always has atleast 5 ultra mega sweats who go flawless every week in trials. meanwhile there's only me and maybe 1 other dude on my team who's actually above average at least. meanwhile the rest of my team mates have the intelligence of a bandit from skyrim with how they play the game. so for this reason I quit often. just for the simple fact I don't feel like carrying or help in carrying a whole team in what is supposed to be casual fucking crucible
Don’t forget the problem of “flawed cards have zero SBMM while unflawed cards have SBMM”. Why do we have to go flawless to get SBMM to make it fair and if we don’t go flawless we get put against 3 ultra sweats who get their super TWICE in a single trials match? Am I looking at this wrong?
@RabidRobbie09 twice in a single match? Never ever have seen that happen and I play trials every weekend. Also connection based is better for trials. If it was SBMM every single match would push you to the limits, connection based has a pretty equal amount of people better than you and worse on either side. The more you practice, the better you are, the more opponents you become better than.
Backed out of 1 trials game, banned for 30. Queued control, backed out, banned. Both games were unwinnable as players left before i did. Honestly fuck d2
Day 2 of asking for this. Let me cook. Strand Warlock with Dawn Chorus and Skyburner's Oath. There is a bug that allows Dawn Chorus to generate 3x melee energy per scorch tick with Strandlock as you have 3 melee charges. Run this with Weavewalk and Weaver's Call. Since Scorch is a DoT, you can use it to un-perch threadlings whilst in Weavewalk, and generate melee energy. In PvP, I have used this build so many times that the other weapons don't even matter, as Skyburner's Oath can handle long range, and for short range, just hip fire and Weavewalk when necessary.
Bungie nerfed this a while ago, they made it so that your threading deal less damage while you are weavewalking (iirc). As such, I'm not sure if it's worth it. If it does provide triple melee energy, that does seem pretty solid, though.
That was an actual worry and to this day keeps scaring me, when I had a terrible connection, I would be constantly either disconnected or reported for my connection. Literally just playing the game was enough for me to gather 2 Suspensions. Even in Gambit. And since there's no reset of it, even though I have a stable and good connection, I am heavily scared that any day, whatever I did, I could just get suspended or even banned by something completely out of my control. And what does the Destiny community say about it? "lmao just get better internet". -_-
I want to start with the fact that quitters penalty is a good thing for PvP games, especially with Comp and Trials in this game. And I do have to admit that I back out on quickplay sometimes. But if you were to tell me that I should just "just keep playing the game and play better because quickplay is so easy" or "You have skill issue" when I am literally matched with teammates with the most atrocious skill on the matches that I actually quit. I mainly play games for fun and I don't sweat whatsoever. I am just some casual that drops around an average 1-1.5 KD; And I'm not playing crucible to get kicked in the crotch and tank my mentals by this game's matchmaking system (which I will get more into it in a bit), which queues me on consecutive losing matches with an unfair matchup on an often basis. This penalty system is absolutely not helping game at the current state, it simply does nothing, despite the fact that quitters penalty is supposed to be a positive change to the game. For me, the reason I have came to this argument is that Crucible Matchups are still absolutely horrendous at times, I was literally queued into a fresh game on Control with the enemy team having a 4-stack on an average 2.4KD which literally happened to me last week, and no, my performance that day was not good with around 1KD and I didn't have popoff games for even the past week so genuinely what is that Bungie? And it is obvious I left that game because hell no I'm not bothered to be playing a match like that. I do think quickplay match ban needs to get lower, it is frustrating that I am trying to do the pathfinder bounties just to have a dreadful matchup and to get a 5 minute ban or harsher for leaving. It should honestly just be 3 minutes and Bungie needs to suck it up the fact that Quickplay is not supposed to be sweaty, in no world I am facing a risk of being permanently banned from Crucible because I leave quickplay matches when the matchup is most horrid.
Its so crazy how they are banning people, they should just make the timeouts for leaving exponential depending on your ratio on how many matches you've left
Its funny that this video came out just now as ive been battling suspensions all day because destiny keeps crashing. Which is not my pc or internets fault but bungies. Ive only noticed these game crashes recently as well
Absolutely *fire* list, TDT. Though about Step 6... What if higher ELO matches let us have Adept variants of the PvP weapons? Or at least weapons that drop will *always* have multi-perk slots. Oh and I hate to give Blizzard some play but having a pop-up that says: "By the way, your team won that match!" after the match you left ended is always funny.
I've been out of the Crucible loop for so long that I don't even know how the last two or three metas have shaken out because every time I set foot in Crucible, I feel like I accidentally joined a championship match and simply can't compete in any way. I remember being able to chill out in PvP and still do fairly well, but every time I've played, for the last few years now, it's been either: Bottom of the team, feel like I'm ruining it for everyone or Top of the team, but we just got stomped in a couple of the most demoralising minutes of my life I miss being good in D1 and earlier D2, but these days D2s matches are just so consistently bad that any skill I had has ended up caked in rust because I just don't want to be there anymore, and then I fall even further out of practice.
Brother, crucible was dead years ago, and Destiny is dead. The community have become toxic try hards, the company is a dumpster fire. The game is over, we beat the bad guys and won. It's all done brosky.
What we really need is an ultra-casual 12v12 'Scrimmage' play list where people can just jump in and drop out of an hour long match whenever for low-stakes, low-worry way to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
I'd also like to point to Bungie's insistence on "special ammo solutions" really being thinly veiled attempts to raise the share of special kills being performed by shotguns wile also lowering the amount of kills the other specials receive. It feels so bad to use any of the fusions, snipers, and glaives 95% of the time
I just came back from a two week vacation, first game I played I lagged out and got suspended. Then I got off. Makes it hard to play the game I love when I get punished for trying.
The only problem with how they have it now is the fact that even if you’re in matchmaking and your internet cuts out/gives you an error code - it’ll still count towards the quitter penalty. (Found this out the other day because I was getting weaselled every time I was queueing up for casual and didn’t even start flying in, proceeded to get a 5 minute timeout)
I just haven’t had the drive to be in crucible since they nerfed everything. Abilities, ammo, weapons. Everything just feels worse in PVP. The only change to the quitter bans is that a decent chunk of the error codes need to be exempt.
An intresting thought occurs. What if we had a game mode where you could sacrifice ability energy to generate special ammo, and super to generate heavy, and that's the only way you had to regen ammo?
How about Bungie fixes the instances where I solo queue In trials and randomly only get 1 teammate, or sometimes even no other teammates. Or joining midway through the game just in time to get Supered by the whole enemy team. This ban/restriction on pubs is a JOKE
0:52 Was not expecting to hear that, it's a great game, I love it, but I had not noticed the analytics. All I knew was a couple content creators were getting into it for the first time. It may not be the same as Destiny but it's definitely a solid game to recommend someone at least try.
Giving us a vomit bucket vs correctly cooking the food is a great analogy for how ol bungo handles reward/punishment structure. For me, this hasn’t really why I stopped playing crucible, more so that 6s feel like a much sweatier version of comp. I don’t have a playlist where I can go in and not lean forward in the gaming chair.
I've been away from D2 for around 3 years now, or at least left before Lightfall. And I can't help but feel I made the right choice. Although it still feels awful to see the game slowly dying and players being punished for it. Bungie never listened. Bungie got greedy and didn't put effort into the game. I dropped over £200 into D2, and I only ever got what I would say is 1/2 of that out if it in terms of value-to-fun. Don't hate the gane or the players, hate Bungie. They are the ones who have failed D2 and it's players. And I'm so fucking sorry I couldn't do anything to save it.. because I love D2, abd I've had so many ideas to fix the game. If only they allowed creators like TDT to work alongside Bungie earlier, people who understand you need to cater to the masses rather than the 1% who are cool shelling out thousands and sit there playing 24h. Maybe the game would still be alive, truly alive, and not on life support... I know it's not my fault at all, but I used to LOVE D2. It has all the ingredients to be near perfect and yet Bungie still fucked it up... It's just painful. It stings my heart. See you all later, good luck with whatever you're doing, hope you have a great day. Oh and Bungie? 🖕
You always dish out cracking content but this has got to be the best PvP feedback vid I’ve seen on D2. Incredibly balanced, full of fantastic ideas. I agree with the lot of it. Hope it makes it to Bungie. There was too much money in D2 for any business to not push through D3. They need to see this shizzle. Keeping up the amazing content my guy ❤️
trials yeah it should be punished. quickplay control tho? no. i go to trials I expect sweats. I put up with it until i get my pinnacle for the week. then idgaf. in quickplay control tho (which is supposed to be casual) I don't expect it to be the sweat fest that it currently is. like if the match just starts and the enemy team somehow pushed into our spawn in the first 15 seconds, that's my que to leave. I can already tell the direction that match is gonna go, its not gonna be a fun time and its just a waste of time in general. in matches like that I see no reason to stay. again tho if its comp or trials and I get into a match like that, I'll endure just to get it over with. but quickplay? hell no
@@grimreaper63151 Oh yeah definitely not on 6v6 or any game mode since losing winning doesn't really give you any worthwhile rewards. Trials is a must though imho.
Though unrelated, I just got an idea for gambit. Have a player invade strike teams doing strikes in a special gambit playlist. The strike team can que up for it with the promise of better rewards than normal strikes. We can call the mode "Invader."
Bungie is a shit company. Getting banned for leaving a match is dumb asf especially when they can't even figure out their matchmaking and half the time i get paired with people on the other side of the world. This game isnt a competitive shooter.
no its not but before the updates to match making i would experience way more lopsided lobbies. if i go back through my history i can find a specific time when it seemed like they kept pairing all solo teams vs full stacks with mics over and over and over. it was no fun what so ever. i think the match making has solved a lot of this issue but created some others for those at the far ends of the skill curve. but as the player count drops it really seems to get worse for them.
Time to rant and sorry it's gonna be a long one. I will say this video is very serendipitous because yesterday, I did crucible for the first time in weeks, just so I could finish the triumphs for the solstice. I played 3 matches and backed out of 1 and I was immediately hit with a 5 minute time-out. Mind you I haven't backed out of a match in a long while, not just because I haven't played, but matches I have played. The system is broken. On top of that I have said many times time-outs do no belong in QP because it is not a feel good for anybody. The player still leaves, the team is still down a person no matter what. It makes it feel like a bad overall experience. I also want to comment on how bungie "communicates" information in-game and out. In-game, they used to be so bad at explaining how things worked. Many perks and quests were worded poorly, but they have gotten better. Another this is how lack of information hurts. I should know in-game and not from 3rd party websites how much damage increase a weapon gets from Rampage, frenzy, etc. I should also be told what "Slightly" or "Greatly" improved means. (They say they don't have the text space in the box, but things like elemental capacitor shows different). As for communication outside of the game, it is poor. It used to be worse, has gotten better, but it's still bad. Talking at the community is not a good way to communicate. Actual conversation and interactions are needed. Not twitter posts and TWABs. The lack of follow through on promises like more live streams, certain events/activities not coming out, stuff like that, make for a poor experience. As for buffs/nerfs and breaking stuff, bungie is slow and They rarely get ahead of the curve. Look at the Graviton bug, if it doesn't benefit the player "We'll fix this in due time," but if it were to fire at a faster fire rate and benefits the player, "We have sent out a hotfix effective immediately." I get needing to keep balance in the game, but when it hinders the player they seem to not care. The only exception of recent that I can think of was The Craftening, but that was because it was a big deep dive fix. DE (Warframe's Devs) feels like they try to fix things ASAP no matter if it was bug that hurt or helped the players. Last thing I have noticed is Bungie is a company focused heavily on analytics. They are good at tracking them, but it seems that they only understand the end product and not what the cause is. They put band aids on because they don't deep dive on things like, Why is the player base in Gambit dropping? They only see that the player base in Gambit is dropping, so let's not put any effort into it, rather than go, "we have put any gambit updates in a while maybe that's why it's dropping." It's just frustrating because Destiny is one of the only games that no matter how bad it gets players want it to succeed and many other games aren't afforded this opportunity. If the game comes out and is bad, generally the sentiment is "Game sucks let it burn." TL;DR: Bungie needs to remove bandaid fixes. They need to look at themselves in a mirror, and say it's ok to borrow ideas from successful franchises and incorporate them. Learn to communicate better, learn to accept blame when they screw up and be proactive rather than reactive. Learn to look at the fine details and understand them.
On trials it would also be nice if a team mate leaves it doesn't ruin your card specially when a player is already on the 6th win row. That map voting is going to be a game changer because going 4 times in a row in Disjunction ain't fun chief!
@@masterSageHarpuia On my other comment I stated that they should make the quitter penalty harsher, ie if you leave you get 5-10mins penalty and it keeps increasing every time you do and say let it accumulate within than week so people can't abuse it.
Great video, good ideas. I'd like so much that Bungie sees this and take some ideas, but the only thing that they do is nerf rifts and titan punches every season.
I think more needs to be done to address the disparity between high end and low end players. It feels like the game mode is catered to like 6 content creators, and everyone else be damned. Changes get made based on what the what the top 1% feel needs to be done, and the lower end players have no incentive to want to get better.
Other than being forced to play PvP for seasonal, exotic, regular quests or Pathfinder and catalysts, the biggest issue with PvP is the rise of oppressive METAs and playstyles that punishes does who don't make use of them. With Hunters being the biggest issue in terms of balance. Not long ago they gave Knucklehead Radar the ability to track targets just like OEM pre-nerf all by just ADSing which is just unfair if you don't like playing Hunters or their playstyle. And after TFS released Prismatic Hunters made IB unplayable (specially with the amount of threaded spectre spam present) if you didn't play Hunter and just like with Knucklehead Radar, two of the aspects synergize so well in PvP (Threaded Spectre & Winter's Shroud) that if you weren't utilizing them you were at an enormous disadvantage. Pair those 2 aspects with Balance of Power and you get a guaranteed kill without having to fire a single shot. All they had to do was just dodge close to an enemy and the Spectre would kill them (even with 100 resilience) since they are slowed by Winter's Shroud and unable to get away. And if they somehow survive their Swarm Grenades are there ro finish the job. Again without having to fire their weapons. Even with the recent to it it's still busted. In the end it forces people to switch to Hunter even if they don't like playing the class in order to enjoy the Crucible, leave matches whenever they encounter the fun police or just refusing to play the mode altogether. As a Titan main me and many others are not having fun anymore. We've been nerfed to the point of obsolescence in high level and endgame content that I'm actually being kicked from fireteams because I'm a Titan. If I'm being forced to play an entirely different class and playstyle to enjoy the game you're doing something wrong.
SBMM needs to go. Period. Now, now... before you get the pitchforks and decide to hang me up in the old hanging tree, I have some good reasons for it, and it starts with Soulslikes. You get bullied relentlessly until you find your feet and are forced to become competent with a game's systems and mechanics. Matchmaking in current FPS games miss this sense of progression and player mastery *because* of SBMM. Imagine you are fighting a boss on your level every single attempt; after awhile you'll run out of things to learn from them, naturally. And it would get pretty boring, naturally. Diversity in opponents and their skill levels matters. You stand to gain more from fighting bosses ABOVE your level, and the lower skill players stand to help as mechanical whetstones. You're tuning your mechanics on those lower skill players, and they're in turn learning from you and tuning theirs. There's a symbiosis there that just can't be built in an SBMM environment. Equality doesn't make games fun or interesting; challenge and adversity does. In order for PvP to continue to be interesting, well into the future, there needs to be a hierarchy to climb. People need to realize they're going to suck at things to start. I recently picked up drawing and I *suck* at it. I'm atrociously bad at it, but I keep trying because the process itself is something I'm going to look back on in 2-3 years and go "well, that was pretty fun". Destiny isn't a hard game to mechanically improve at, but it does take time to learn all the interactions and implement them into a core set of loadouts. And while comp is an okay substitute for this, it has notorious matchmaking issues and map balancing issues because the maps weren't built for that. That, and comp lives or dies by the meta, so there's really no casual playlist in Destiny currently. You could count the rotators, but sometimes you just want to play with all the tools as Bungie intended, not with scorch cannons or an LMG.
Literally everyone here is saying they don’t play pvp either because they get bullied relentlessly in game or because they are bullying others relentlessly and it’s not rewarding. These people are crying at the thought of having to finish 4 out of every 5 crucible matches. Do you seriously think that putting them in less fair lobbies is gonna make that better?
@@SaltSpirits Fairness doesn't exist. Equality doesn't exist. That's the core issue with SBMM as a tactic. We need challenges and challengers; that's how a PvP game thrives. If someone complains about a challenge, then they're probably not in the headspace to be playing PvP games. They're probably the same people that rage when the same tactic kills them, that rage when they feel slighted by some tiny infraction, or the same people that tilt too easily. PvP isn't fair, it's inherently designed to have winners and losers *and students.*
@@RememberTheDuckYour main point is mostly wrong. Sure there are some situations where you’re right, but if the “challenge” is either something with next to no counter other or something completely overpowered, then your point loses steam pretty quickly. Plus, your point about bosses doesn’t really hold much either. AI in a lot of games has a set “range” or limit to their tactics. Humans, on the other hand, have complex thought and improvisation, which isn’t inherently at a set range. It’s both underpowered and overpowered, depending on the person and the situation.
@@thunderchief7256 You somehow completely missed my point lmao. It wasn't that the players should be more like bosses and boss AI: It was that the game should be better designed around the players that will stick around for the difficulty and challenge. I was using the boss as a metaphor as a stand-in for the player.
Might be repeating myself, but i have such warm memories from Killzone 2 pvp, where matches were a lot longer and sometimes people left. We were able to switch teams if there was a free slot. My clan's mission was to help the loosing team. Nobody cared about KD's, we just wanted to make the matches more exiting and help the loosing team. Once a week, our clan leaders gave honorary medals to the best "helpers". Some of us K2 oldtimers play D2 and I hope you still remember the the sweaty 30 min games on Pyrrhus Rise:)))
This is the most inspiring, and most depressing Crucible video I have ever seen. Inspiring because it provides a glimpse of what Crucible could be. Depressing because they now have even less brainpower on staff to implement the ideas, if they were to actually see the video and then get the approval to act on it. This is providing they are humble and recognize how good the ideas are. Incredible video, I will share it FWIW.
Great video, as someone who is newer to destiny and mains PVE I loved some of the game mode ideas. The infected one would be a blast! Great video! Keep it up. 😊
Ngl I 100% love the ideas from this video.. I just don't understand how we went from Bungie doing so very well on halo pvp n game modes to what you said 10 years worth of no real big changes
I completely agree with this, I've started to play dead by daylight again since news of the Bungie layoffs to chill, and I had forgotten about its penalty system for disconnection.... its really bad
Season of arrivals was the most fun I’ve had in crucible, both competitive and casually. I don’t know why, but I felt that I could run off meta builds and still have fun. I don’t remember if there was SBMM in that season, maybe that’s the reason.
Love me some chipotle :) Also, as someone who suffered a bit because of frequent network issues during a league stint, It's frustrating when you unintentionally disconnect from a pvp game and get punished for it.
I feel like players leaving wouldn't be this big of an issue if lobby balancing wasn't the weird system that it is. Bungie has givin us a few glimpses at what they use to rank a players "skill" so now that we have that info instead of guesses I will once again say: Instead of putting bots on a team with people like Cammy (who are crazy good at the game to the point they could take a nap and get a "I made this for you" in an sbmm free lobby) and putting really solid players on the enemy team because they're fighting Cammy, how about we do the 1 - 10 scale and the only balancing it does in 6s is the 1-3s never match with 7 - 10s and that rule only breaks when you're in a fireteam that has people on either side of the spectrum. That way you are always matching people RELATIVE to you rather than the teams being lopsided. Then apply the more strict sbmm/rbmm in comp because thats where fun goes to die and you're only there if you care about your rank or you want a specific role of a weapon/alloys. I get that bungie has been tweaking the snakedraft system but with destiny's inherently low floor of what it takes to win a fight and its insanely high ceiling when it comes to movement, positioning, gamesense, map knowledge, and general skill with weapons that don't give you crits on a silver platter, in all honesty the game doesn't reward you for getting better, it arguably punishes you at a certain point with worse lobbies so you literally suffer from success. All and all I agree with the message this video is pushing but that was how I've always felt sbmm should be implemented in D2 because with and without it people complain matchmaking sucks so it needs to be put in in a way where you don't feel like a certain win/loss ratio is enforced
Sorry to ignore the topic but I'm genuinely heartbroken with the layoffs. I skipped the last DLC after watching IHateEverythings review (It's something that I look forward to just as much as every new DLC) and decided that for the first time, despite me wanting to get back into the game again, I'm not going to. So the new DLC drops, the end of an era, and... It's good? I'm a little low on money right now but I'm finally ready to get back into Destiny and scratch that itch... and then... I mean I'm still probably going to play it but man. This is one of the most important games ever made to me, since it's rated T It was my first ever FPS that wasn't a mobile game and it still due this day my favorite fictional world (except maybe Splatoon) with my favorite art style and art direction and it STILL feels the best out of any other game to point at enemy and shoot. I spent the last decade of my life wishing this game was better and now it may never be.
Great video man! I really liked both this and the gambit one. Well articulated issues, and suggesting solutions over complaining. Looking forwrd to mpre of your content. Cheers!
Every time you pop one of these videos out I always comment; Bungie needs to hire this man. Drop Pete and put TDT in his place. Boom I just solved the biggest problem in Bungie. Now how to word it in the most charismatic and intellectual way like the boy.
Amazing video. 100% agree with every point and suggestion you made. I've been a Destiny pvp main since the Dark Below, and its really unfortunate how bad they've let things get. It's far more frustrating than fun now.
I only leave matches in 6v6 if were 5 minutes in and i haven't gotten a single kill OR assist or fully broken anyones shield. Then ill alt f4 and go sit in the grass outside and watch the birds in the garden and contemplate why i even play d2.
I don't agree with everything said but it's awesome to see how passionate you are and well thought out your opinions on the game are. I really enjoy the style of video you've been doing with this, Arc, state of Titan, etc. Definitely a unique, engaging form of content.
The Special Ammo suggestion would not work as all Specials do not share the same effectiveness (i.e. getting a kill with all 8 Shotgun shells is much easier than getting a kill with all 8 Sniper shots). It would incentivize Shotguns and Grenade Launchers even more as they either are more consistent with scoring kills or assisting in getting easy kills. I'd suggest going back to the old ammo system but with a twist: you start with 2 kills worth of ammo on each life, but you only can get Special through Primary kills and non-Heavy headshot kills. So, a Primary headshot kill grants 2 kills-worth of Special Ammo, a Primary bodyshot kill only grants 1 kill-worth of Special Ammo, a Special headshot kill grants 1 kill-worth of Special Ammo, and a Special bodyshot kills grant no Special. If extra programming work was put into it, if a player was hit by a Special Weapon then cleaned up before their main health got fully recovered (or after 3-5 seconds), then they will drop 1 less kill-worth than normally to avoid things such as sniper bodyshots into Primary headshot or GL hit into primary bodyshot.
Man ive been wishing they would give you super energy for joining a match in progress for so long. It feels horrid joing late, getting snowballed on, and then you get your super a mimite before the game ends
A point worth noting since you referenced psychology research (which is currently going through a replicability crisis) is that for sustained long-term motivation, extrinsic motivation (i.e., rewards and punishments) has proven far less impactful than intrinsic motivation (i.e., the enjoyment of the process itself). In other words, even if the loot system is improved upon, nobody will suffer through a crap experience for long periods of time anyway. Getting people to like PvP is more important. Historically, Bungie has failed to realize this - which is also why people play new PvE content until they get the relevant loot, and then immediately stop, only to complain about the lack of things to do.
Dang Bungie needs you as a consultant. You have a lot of great ideas. You give constructive criticism AND solutions. Not too much of that happens in forums pertaining to D2 but rather a lot of false accusations against Bungie and whining. I like this game and am in it for the long haul. I don’t play PVP anymore but was thinking about giving it a try now that my computer setup is less limiting. The reasons I quit a few years ago. 1. My computer was so bad I could hardly compete. My frame rate was usually around 12-19 and it was difficult to get kills. If I got a few I felt it was a success. And completing bounties or challenges or triumphs took FOREVER. 2. Even though I was fully engaged and active in a match because I didn’t get enough kills Bungie penalized me by not giving me credit or rewards for a completion and treated me like I was AFK. 3. Because of poor play I felt very guilty for being the guy who was the reason my team lost. I don’t like ti be that guy. I am very team focused and, for example, am the guy in PVE who will go back for you to res you or wait until you arrive before moving past a check point or give you a chance to rally at the flag. The last time I played PVP regularly was when Riptide first came out. I was trying to complete a triumph or maybe just reset my rank but it took 3 days all day of playing crucible. My body was shot. My moral was shot. My mind was numb. This is from a guy who was as high as top 2% in Time Wasted On Destiny. But I did manage to get a PVP God Roll Riptide and a PVE God Roll Riptide. I use the latter a lot. But I don’t use the former obviously. I completed the task but vowed to never ever go back into PVP until I got a new computer. I have a new computer now. It’s minimal in hardware needs fir the game. But what keeps me from jumping back into PVP to give it a try is how over the past couple years now the community, at large, has complained about its many flaws. The one in particular that stands out to me is how someone with a meta or build that crushes everyone in sight has taken the enjoyment out of it. Enjoyment is the only reason I would come back. If I have removed a hindrance on my end, the computer, only to be met with the likelihood that I will have no success due to my own lack of skill AND fighting against people with God like powers I’m gonna pass.
A 1v1 gamemode would be a godsend, quite literally the biggest deciding factors in crucible are your teammates, and most of the times your teammates are randoms, leaving many games up to just RNG on if you win or lose. Ofc if you are a good player you can try to bridge the cap, but if your enemies are 3 peeking and your teammates ran off to the other side of the map, there's barely anything you could do yourself. A 1v1 gamemode would eliminate randomness and guarantee that when or if you lose, it's all your fault and you just need to git good, or that you're lagging your choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
These are great ideas. Whenever I play Crucible, it's usually for seasonal challenges, pathways, and Iron Banner gear. I don't hate Crucible, but the incentive to actually commit to "get good" is definitely NOT there for me. And as someone who likes catalyst farming, having specific exotics that require playing the gamemode and/or getting behind in the match (looking at you Vigilance Wing), is rough.
Your proposal for addressing the backfill disparity doesn't go far enough. I have had multiple matches where I join late and get supered 3-4 times right off the drop. You get super energy for kills, so the team that is dominating is already gets their supers faster (this mechanic fundamentally makes a bad situation worse). I would rather that match making never put me in a match where my team has 50% or less than the other teams score. I think I have managed to turn that situation around once in 7 years of playing. When I am on the team getting farmed, I just want the match to end so that matchmaking can try again. Giving my team superman to carry us back from the dead isn't what I want - odds are he is not going to stop the other team from consistently beating me. I can usually tell in the first few minutes of a match if it is going to be competitive or a slaughter. The fundamental problem Bungle has now is that they have shrunk their player pool so much that they don't have enough people to make good matches. One thing that I think should be addressed is the rewards, even (especially?) in the casual lists. I have been playing for years. At this point, I do not need armor - all of my armor is 65+ stat rolled. I do not think that the casual list can drop over 61 and even that high is super rare. Consequently, getting armor as a reward is a complete waste of time. If I got high stat rolls occasionally, I don't think it would cheapen the pinnacle activities that much, but it would make it so I don't just auto delete every reward without looking at it. My vault is full of god rolls. If I get a new god roll, I have to figure out what I am going to delete to make space for it. I don't know what rewards would feel good, but I know the current state of rewards provides me zero motivation to play. I'd like to see a game mode where everyone loads in and gets the same loadout and abilities at random. We'll find out who has skills versus who knows to make a meta build.
Beware of the scams bots.
If you thought any of my ideas had validity, a share would be appreciated. Maybe. Just maybe. We could get this in front of bungie with enough press.
The more barriers and stuff they put in our way to hurt us is what keeps us away. Funny that the same reasons this game has people staying away are the same for the american people and the laws and companies and rules and stuff are meant to hurt us more than help us. On top of that the money gets you out of these problems so most of us are kept in the pooper.
Bruh if YOU managed game design I would play the games that studio put out. You have a head on your shoulders that would truly dominate gaming, attract MORE players to games thus getting more sales. Idk if it's something you would ever consider trying to go into but I'd be here for it!
I couldn't respond everything to you know the hunter vid, but don't take that as me plugging myself in your comments, I just wanna support
Not as talked about, but I think nerfs that completely kill builds, weapons, and exotics massively hurt the game. This also leads to our constant wack'a mole style of updates to pvp. People invest time and resources into getting good with a particular build just for it to be taken away. I use to love loreley + my glaive, both of those are useless now because they were nerfed so hard, but against the new hunter threading spam it would feel on par. Not only would crucible be more balanced, its would be massivly more fun if you werent forced to change builds because your previous one was NERFED. Not that something else was better, but devs artificially nerfed it. THATS the problem.
sure there are stand outs like mountain top / shatter dive, but outside of instant kills, there truly aren't many outliers devs should ever be worried about.
Here are my totally unqualified opinions on a few of your ideas. Disclaimer: I haven't played destiny in a long while, and not consistently for years.
Giving super energy to those joining late is something I've always been asking for. Never very publicly, but I'm glad to hear it.
I love the idea of spawning heavy closer to the losing team. I realized I was upset about it, but I never considered blaming the mechanics and instead got frustrated vaguely or with the enemy team.
Map voting is an interesting idea. I do think it'd be best implemented via two specific choices and 1 random.
I like your comparisons to what COD does right and what has made it consistently successful.
I think caution must be taken when discussing stronger anticheat. I already think the kernel level anticheat is a problem. One tactic I like is taking power out of the cheaters hands. Take Titanfall 2 for example. Wall hacks, auto-aim to an extent, and extreme movement are all already game mechanics.
The idea of gamemodes is easy to like but not necessarily successful. It's very difficult to go from idea to fully playable, bugfixed, and live gamemode. It also does add additional things to test and watch for emerging bugs. As a developer, I wish I could make more people understand that features require support indefinitely, not just while making them or shortly after.
I really like your unique take on ability spam.
Airborne Effectiveness is bad, hard agree.
I'm probably being a doomer here, but I don't think most of these would ever be implemented, because I don't think the people choosing the devs do and driving the course of the game *care* about making crucible good. The layoffs and historical apathy are evidence of this to me. Still I enjoy your takes and wish for the best. Even if my more depressing predictions are true, this is an excellent case study.
Even the players are getting fired
😂
Haha love this😂😂😂😂
Lmao😂
Too soon lol
Bro😂😂
My biggest reason for not playing crucible rn is that it feels like I have one great match and then another 7 terrible ones
This is literally me an hour ago, I had one great match then got mercy'd 2 times in a row then proceeded to lose another 2
When I did play Destiny, this was my reasoning for not playing Crucible. I'd get 3 to 4 good to great matches where I felt like I was having fun, then boom. 10 more matches with terrible teammates and enemies way outside my skill level. It's not fun to play a game casually then have to get sweaty and pop off or do better just so I can feel like I'm still having fun.
This has been my general experience for years, not a recent thing, I would get at best 1 win every 10 games, I wished I was lying...My success rates would only very slightly improve when Iron Banner comes around. I don't have any opinion in Trials which I assume is far much worse.
this mm is like cold war or bo4 mm where you’re the good person your team, there’s one good person on the other team. now you two have to battle it out to see who can carry the hardest. d2 pvp is like that now
Facts. It also sux after you have those 7 terrible matches. They throw you in a in progress match where your is already in a stomping mode. Then back to 7 more terrible matches.
"if you quit this match, you're missing out on...
two tokens and a blue."
Whatamagonnadooo???
Two tokens and a blue?! Oh the horror! The humanity!!
right? i think he misses the point completely, people don't need to be reminded what they're missing out on, cuz its nothing. The issue is the rewards are nothing, not that the players need a reminder. This whole video is a miss IMO.
It's funny and sad how destiny 1 had a much better reward system for PVP
I'll never forget screaming in joy whenever I got a exotic after a random match
@@heartbae87 You can get exotics from pvp as well because of the weekly rewards for doing ritual activities. You can get exotics anywhere which kinda took away their value. I mean... there's nothing which would be rewarding enough unless they would add a weapon which is gonna be 1 of a kind like Cataphract GL3 from trials was.
"communication is king"
Bungie: gotcha, no more warnings or notifications
Bungie: crucible is dead as always? How about banning players so it won't revive?
-YESSS THAT'S GREATEST IDEA I'VE HEARD PEOPLE WILL LOVE IT!!!
I have a badass, wired Google Fiber account I'm connected through. I absolutely am NOT having "connectivity" problems. And yet I get booted from games about once a day, and yesterday got my first "time out" for 30 minutes because of it.
THEY have problems that THEY do not want to admit. So they're blaming US.
I'm not okay with that at all.
Which has always been a case. Sometimes it is an individuals situation outside of their power, or they are just someone with a basic type of setup. But when it's the game itself well it's sad to say, but a lot of the time the devs won't say it is on their side
Same. Destiny is the only game I get booted and told I have "no connection" even though I am in chat.
I have the fastest fiber optic internet humanly possible and the same thing happens to me lol.
Similar here. I'm hardwired to my router and I still get told my connection sucks. Its not MY fault YOUR servers suck eggs. It even happens when I'm just sitting in orbit too. Which is a problem I very rarely had in D1 or even before WQ released for D2. The game has just become a chore to play because of constant error coding.
Got similar issues with Halo Infinite the last time I played a few weeks ago. Why do modern devs have such a hard time making reliable servers? Both Bungie and 343i have this problem from my and many others' experience. Who knows how many other AAA dev games have these terrible server issues?
Bungie hosting a pvp tournament and having a cash prize is such a pipe dream lol the ceo cant buy 25 more cars if he hands out money
Yeah I just laughed as he said players need to be reminded what they're missing out on if they quit a match, Bungie hosting cash prize PvP tournaments 7 years into the game and how "absurdly popular" a 1v1 comp playlist would be. I need what this guy is smoking...
If bungie wants to suspend quitters they need to address how slowly post-game rewards drop. I caught a 5 minute timeout the other day for leaving the lobby after the game was over, while the post-game summary was on screen, seemingly because rewards hadn’t dropped yet.
I noticed how slow the post game summary loads in PVE too. Sometimes the screen where you give commendations just shows the loading icon and the timer counts down and completes before you can give commendations which you need to get the weekly engram.
@@larryboylarry5557 bandaid solution because bungie surely wont fix it, you probably already know this though.
Hit R2 to go onto the scoreboard screen and do it there. I hate when this glitch happens but its a good way to get around it
This is my problem, I hate waiting on the post-game screen.
Wait…. You can give commendations on the stats page? How long has that been a thing?
@@ppokorny99 no clue, but click the star next to the name and you can do it from that screen too.
Had my first game in a few months with a blatant cheater while doing a pathfinder quest the other day. Everyone on my team said to leave the game, and eventually, everyone did. Went to que up for a different gamemode and was told I had a 5-minute ban for leaving. It was literally one left game, and I was banned, crazy stuff.
Getting banned because you left a match because of a hacker is CRAZZY, the hell is gunbo doing now?
and lets not forget that bungie isnt letting their anti-cheat do what its supposed to by itself, No. They manually review it because why the fuck not
Yeah,they don’t play no more-quitting now get you 4:55 time out instantly!😂😂😂
Getting super energy for joining a game already in progress is something I've been internally screaming for so long. It's so, so awful joining a losing match, getting killed by three or more supers in a row, and having nothing you can do to hit back.
Too bad it’ll never happen 😢
Don't forget one CRUCIAL thing too, you are FORCED into the crucible at times to complete quests, many of which can be started entirely outside of PVP to get certain exotics, and there's no way to "Ignore" quest popups so you can constantly have shaxx/drifter annoying you on the map
So you get people like me, who basically only play PVE, that have to suffer through PVP matches to finish various exotic quests or catalysts, and there are many more who go "I'll try it" and then leave almost instantly
So there's not only a penalty problem, and an incentive problem, but there's also a major game design problem in the form of "Surprise Crucible" where PVE or Seasonal quests suddenly require crucible to complete, which leads to a lot of Idlers/Leavers/Throwers/etc.
This.
I have many catalysts uncompleted because they require kills with that weapon that is no longer meta and almost useless.
I will never be able to complete seasonal triumphs or the challenges and get the grand prize because it requires PVP play.
Nobody wants to spend hours upon hours getting slaughtered in PVP modes to complete something. Not fun at all.
And another issue is “I need weapon in PvP to catch up PvE meta"
For me is mountaintop(when forsaken era,unlock progress were mission impossible for low-skilled PvP hater) and riptide(Fxxxing large perk pool without luck protection),literally a pain in my ass.
I just give up when I see a catalyst or exotic quest that requires PvP. I think the last one I did was either for Ticuu's Divination or Dead Man's Tale...if I didn't like them as much as I do, I would never have bothered.
Not just that, but crucible should be a place where you can go be silly and do dumb stuff if you want in party modes. The whole focus on trying to make the crucible play like trials and comp is killing it. Not even the more sweaty players want to break themselves on that hill.
10,000% exactly this..I (had) lots of unfinished catalyst because I refuse PVP and i need pvp kills. so what I did was just make a private match and took turns killing each other so we both got our catalyst done 👍
The one thing a friend of mine(the one that got me into Destiny years ago) told me, and it has stuck to me throughout my 5k hours into this game is that: the reason why D2 pvp sucks is because back in the day, Halo pvp was built as a party game , with fun as the main priority, and as players got better at it, they became more competitive. Destiny 2 however is the exact opposite, it was designed as a competitive game(mainly for the e-sports sphere) first without focusing on the fun factor. So essentially "The game was rigged from the start" in that they approached the game with the wrong mindset, yet they keep telling us that they know better than we do.
Other reason why Halo did well is weapons were even across the board for everyone and no one started with special weapons, they had to be grabbed at spots on the map. For D2 that isn't the case except with certain exotics. A 1v1 with a rose for example can be tilted one way because one has the god roll for a rose and the other has a crap roll let alone what armor stats they have.
MMO pvp always has that issue of if you are lucky on drops/rolls of gear and weapons then you get a leg up in pvp which creates a built in unfairness that gets compounded by those with more skill as well which is a big reason folks do not like crucible then add in stuff you can only get by playing pvp (exotic quests/catalysts/best in category guns) makes for a miserable time
I'm saddened by the state of Destiny's pvp, you know what I could go for to lighten the mood? A burrito.
Bro wants that card xD
@@doom_lord_139 You miss 100% of shots you don't take.
A man with his priorities in order🫡🌯
@@TeamGoals you ever tried warframe?
@@funnyman1863 just started, I max ranked my Rhino today. I’m blown away frankly.
Solution DO NOT BAN PLAYERS FOR LEAVING CASUAL MATCHES, if leaving ranked or competitive matches bring the hammer but my god casual fun is dead, also i love alot of your ideas but sadly your applying logic to the destiny commission remember how D1 went with exclusive cosmetics tied to trials and hard mode raids the community scream instead of trying to improve.
When your internet cuts out often and you get banned 😂
Happened to me today.
This is why i'm worried
even worse you have to wait like at least a full minute after the match ends to even back out to go into matchmaking again or continue a trials card, i flawed a few cards in the last few weeks like that, its just plain absurdity
You shouldn't be playing trials knowing you disconnect often and make the game horrible for your teamates
Yup, they openly admit they can’t tell the difference. Even when an error code is generated.
NGL the only time I play PVP is during Iron Banner. Every time my friends ask me to play PVP I tell em “I don’t need that negativity in my life”
They did this in trials. Initially, i completed matches by jumping off the map when it was obvious that my team didnt stand a chance to win 1 much less 5 rounds; after weeks of no changes to broken weapons/builds and constant 1 sided stomp matches, i and my friends stopped caring, we'd just close destiny mid game and go on something else, i play the game to enjoy myself, as do most; so in a game in which the result of a match is often determined by bungo matching a team one with way higher skill to a much lower one, why the hell would i keep playing when im being held prisoner in a match i cant win when im trying to have fun? On the contrary, if the game had instead offered me a reward for sticking around, then i'd have been way more inclined to.
Now implimenting this into casual? And at only a 20% leaving rate? That's leaving 1 in 5 games; that's pretty much what i'd expect to see from a dad playing the game. Hell, most players will only play 5 or less matches a day, so they can't even leave one match a day without a ban, im not sure if this company is dying or killing itself
SBmM in Trials was the dumbest idea they’ve ever had.
The rate should really be more like 50%. Like thats a person whos legitimately just being rude at that point.
I’ve said it a million times add a fking forfeit system bungie. I don’t care how many times you ban me I’m not waiting 5 rounds of getting farmed because you look at my stats and decide to put the shitiest teammates imaginable on my team.
You know what could be a cool mechanic for late joins. Making a player who joined late a "play maker". A play maker would spawn with a super ready to go or heavy ammo or making them score more points giving them a chance to turn the tide. Perhaps this is a better idea for games that are being snowballed and closing in on Mercy ruling.
You're not seeing it through. I'd exploit the crap out of this if I was loosing. Leave. Come back and have this boost you speak of.
@@davidzrescalante503 Just make it so if you rejoin the same match you quit out of, you don't get the boost again. D2 rarely puts you back in the same match anyway (except when you least want it to).
You cannot leave and join back, because bungie will have banned your existence in pvp for a duration of time they see fit lol@davidzrescalante503
Sorry, best I can do draining all their abilities and leaving them with no special ammo.
Umm, No.
0:52 As bummed as I am to see Destiny die, It’s nice to see Warframe is doing better.
that’ll last a month before people realize it’s a glorified mobile game with even less gameplay variety than destiny
@@SaltSpirits me when I'm wrong
@@SaltSpirits that and the absolutely abysmal resource economy on that game. I could go on a text-wall rant of how bad so many systems are in that game. I played warframe for half a year when i started, but the forced grinding and 1GB update spams made me quit.
Hell yeah, it’s in a really fun place lately too
@@SaltSpirits I’m sorry, I don’t speak wrong
I’m not one to leave matches but there’s really nothing to be missed by backing out. There is no loot. No rare Crucible drops. Nothing. Just some XP, the occasional worthless piece of armor, and a bad roll on a bad gun.
Matchmaking has felt awful for a few seasons.
Additions like Sparrow Control are not even half baked. It’s just a bug they made into a “game mode”.
They let the “core” modes of this game die and acted surprised when players drop.
Not to mention that higher skilled players get literal potatoes on their team and are expected to stay when its basically a 1v6.
I got dropped into an ongoing 6's match yesterday that was 27-88 and it dropped me into the losing team. I left immediately and got suspended for 15 minutes. Good shit.
basically me in almost every fucking match in control. I'm not saying I'm amazing. but I play the objective, I got a 2.18 k/d. but the enemy team lately almost always has atleast 5 ultra mega sweats who go flawless every week in trials. meanwhile there's only me and maybe 1 other dude on my team who's actually above average at least. meanwhile the rest of my team mates have the intelligence of a bandit from skyrim with how they play the game. so for this reason I quit often. just for the simple fact I don't feel like carrying or help in carrying a whole team in what is supposed to be casual fucking crucible
Never forget all the moronic content creators who fight to keep in SBMM. Publicly shame them.
Don’t forget the problem of “flawed cards have zero SBMM while unflawed cards have SBMM”. Why do we have to go flawless to get SBMM to make it fair and if we don’t go flawless we get put against 3 ultra sweats who get their super TWICE in a single trials match? Am I looking at this wrong?
@RabidRobbie09 twice in a single match? Never ever have seen that happen and I play trials every weekend. Also connection based is better for trials. If it was SBMM every single match would push you to the limits, connection based has a pretty equal amount of people better than you and worse on either side. The more you practice, the better you are, the more opponents you become better than.
Backed out of 1 trials game, banned for 30. Queued control, backed out, banned. Both games were unwinnable as players left before i did. Honestly fuck d2
Destiny itself disconnects me more than any external issues i have. Its wild
No one should get banned for leaving control matches. It’s stupid. If I get banned for leaving a 6s match I turn the game off for the day.
Great points man. I would stay if I joined late and got super energy. I would stay if I got to vote on the map and not play shitty ones.
Who are you talking to?
You should not leave a match, period
@@yasininn76 I'm leaving if they dump me in a match that we're losing by 30+, this is a dumb ass statement
@@mightyjoeyoung404 you're getting put in a match like that because people are quitting...
Day 2 of asking for this. Let me cook. Strand Warlock with Dawn Chorus and Skyburner's Oath. There is a bug that allows Dawn Chorus to generate 3x melee energy per scorch tick with Strandlock as you have 3 melee charges. Run this with Weavewalk and Weaver's Call. Since Scorch is a DoT, you can use it to un-perch threadlings whilst in Weavewalk, and generate melee energy. In PvP, I have used this build so many times that the other weapons don't even matter, as Skyburner's Oath can handle long range, and for short range, just hip fire and Weavewalk when necessary.
Bungie nerfed this a while ago, they made it so that your threading deal less damage while you are weavewalking (iirc). As such, I'm not sure if it's worth it. If it does provide triple melee energy, that does seem pretty solid, though.
That was an actual worry and to this day keeps scaring me, when I had a terrible connection, I would be constantly either disconnected or reported for my connection. Literally just playing the game was enough for me to gather 2 Suspensions. Even in Gambit.
And since there's no reset of it, even though I have a stable and good connection, I am heavily scared that any day, whatever I did, I could just get suspended or even banned by something completely out of my control. And what does the Destiny community say about it? "lmao just get better internet". -_-
I want to start with the fact that quitters penalty is a good thing for PvP games, especially with Comp and Trials in this game. And I do have to admit that I back out on quickplay sometimes.
But if you were to tell me that I should just "just keep playing the game and play better because quickplay is so easy" or "You have skill issue" when I am literally matched with teammates with the most atrocious skill on the matches that I actually quit.
I mainly play games for fun and I don't sweat whatsoever. I am just some casual that drops around an average 1-1.5 KD; And I'm not playing crucible to get kicked in the crotch and tank my mentals by this game's matchmaking system (which I will get more into it in a bit), which queues me on consecutive losing matches with an unfair matchup on an often basis.
This penalty system is absolutely not helping game at the current state, it simply does nothing, despite the fact that quitters penalty is supposed to be a positive change to the game. For me, the reason I have came to this argument is that Crucible Matchups are still absolutely horrendous at times, I was literally queued into a fresh game on Control with the enemy team having a 4-stack on an average 2.4KD which literally happened to me last week, and no, my performance that day was not good with around 1KD and I didn't have popoff games for even the past week so genuinely what is that Bungie? And it is obvious I left that game because hell no I'm not bothered to be playing a match like that.
I do think quickplay match ban needs to get lower, it is frustrating that I am trying to do the pathfinder bounties just to have a dreadful matchup and to get a 5 minute ban or harsher for leaving. It should honestly just be 3 minutes and Bungie needs to suck it up the fact that Quickplay is not supposed to be sweaty, in no world I am facing a risk of being permanently banned from Crucible because I leave quickplay matches when the matchup is most horrid.
yeah quitters penaltys are good for the comp playlists just not casual because thats drop in drop out.
Its so crazy how they are banning people, they should just make the timeouts for leaving exponential depending on your ratio on how many matches you've left
Its funny that this video came out just now as ive been battling suspensions all day because destiny keeps crashing. Which is not my pc or internets fault but bungies. Ive only noticed these game crashes recently as well
man i got an error code nightingale the other day, i had no clue it existed
I totally understand the people who quit matches. Between playing a bad game and receiving a ban, the ban feels less of a bitter pill.
Absolutely *fire* list, TDT.
Though about Step 6... What if higher ELO matches let us have Adept variants of the PvP weapons? Or at least weapons that drop will *always* have multi-perk slots.
Oh and I hate to give Blizzard some play but having a pop-up that says: "By the way, your team won that match!" after the match you left ended is always funny.
I've been out of the Crucible loop for so long that I don't even know how the last two or three metas have shaken out because every time I set foot in Crucible, I feel like I accidentally joined a championship match and simply can't compete in any way. I remember being able to chill out in PvP and still do fairly well, but every time I've played, for the last few years now, it's been either:
Bottom of the team, feel like I'm ruining it for everyone
or
Top of the team, but we just got stomped in a couple of the most demoralising minutes of my life
I miss being good in D1 and earlier D2, but these days D2s matches are just so consistently bad that any skill I had has ended up caked in rust because I just don't want to be there anymore, and then I fall even further out of practice.
The fact we've been seeing these types of videos for around 10 years, is pretty telling. Nothing is going to change, this is tf3 levels of hopeium
Brother, crucible was dead years ago, and Destiny is dead. The community have become toxic try hards, the company is a dumpster fire. The game is over, we beat the bad guys and won. It's all done brosky.
Best comment lmfao we done pack up broski
What we really need is an ultra-casual 12v12 'Scrimmage' play list where people can just jump in and drop out of an hour long match whenever for low-stakes, low-worry way to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
People would still build sweatsquads and go around farming people
12v12 would destroy whatever potato is running the peer to peer. It’s barely even functional for some people even with fiber optic internet.
I'd also like to point to Bungie's insistence on "special ammo solutions" really being thinly veiled attempts to raise the share of special kills being performed by shotguns wile also lowering the amount of kills the other specials receive. It feels so bad to use any of the fusions, snipers, and glaives 95% of the time
All the casual players left, no wonder they're becoming desperate
I feel bad for the sweats....they can't farm me anymoer
Yep now the sweats have to Duke it out with each other have fun!! 😂
I'm absolutely shocked that there are 100k people playing Crucible, if you'd asked me, I would have said it felt like 200.
I just came back from a two week vacation, first game I played I lagged out and got suspended. Then I got off. Makes it hard to play the game I love when I get punished for trying.
9:33 No, its like they got mad at us for vomiting and then they stop sharing food or cooking for us and let us starve.
The only problem with how they have it now is the fact that even if you’re in matchmaking and your internet cuts out/gives you an error code - it’ll still count towards the quitter penalty.
(Found this out the other day because I was getting weaselled every time I was queueing up for casual and didn’t even start flying in, proceeded to get a 5 minute timeout)
I just haven’t had the drive to be in crucible since they nerfed everything. Abilities, ammo, weapons. Everything just feels worse in PVP.
The only change to the quitter bans is that a decent chunk of the error codes need to be exempt.
An intresting thought occurs. What if we had a game mode where you could sacrifice ability energy to generate special ammo, and super to generate heavy, and that's the only way you had to regen ammo?
Shoutout the Balatro music tho... Good stuff as always TDT.
How about Bungie fixes the instances where I solo queue In trials and randomly only get 1 teammate, or sometimes even no other teammates. Or joining midway through the game just in time to get Supered by the whole enemy team. This ban/restriction on pubs is a JOKE
0:52 Was not expecting to hear that, it's a great game, I love it, but I had not noticed the analytics. All I knew was a couple content creators were getting into it for the first time. It may not be the same as Destiny but it's definitely a solid game to recommend someone at least try.
Giving us a vomit bucket vs correctly cooking the food is a great analogy for how ol bungo handles reward/punishment structure. For me, this hasn’t really why I stopped playing crucible, more so that 6s feel like a much sweatier version of comp. I don’t have a playlist where I can go in and not lean forward in the gaming chair.
I always appreciate how in-depth these suggestions are for different issues
I've been away from D2 for around 3 years now, or at least left before Lightfall.
And I can't help but feel I made the right choice. Although it still feels awful to see the game slowly dying and players being punished for it.
Bungie never listened. Bungie got greedy and didn't put effort into the game. I dropped over £200 into D2, and I only ever got what I would say is 1/2 of that out if it in terms of value-to-fun.
Don't hate the gane or the players, hate Bungie.
They are the ones who have failed D2 and it's players. And I'm so fucking sorry I couldn't do anything to save it.. because I love D2, abd I've had so many ideas to fix the game. If only they allowed creators like TDT to work alongside Bungie earlier, people who understand you need to cater to the masses rather than the 1% who are cool shelling out thousands and sit there playing 24h. Maybe the game would still be alive, truly alive, and not on life support...
I know it's not my fault at all, but I used to LOVE D2. It has all the ingredients to be near perfect and yet Bungie still fucked it up... It's just painful. It stings my heart.
See you all later, good luck with whatever you're doing, hope you have a great day.
Oh and Bungie?
🖕
You always dish out cracking content but this has got to be the best PvP feedback vid I’ve seen on D2. Incredibly balanced, full of fantastic ideas. I agree with the lot of it. Hope it makes it to Bungie. There was too much money in D2 for any business to not push through D3. They need to see this shizzle. Keeping up the amazing content my guy ❤️
A quitter penalty should be 5-10mins or worst on every match you left because hot damn its annoying seeing people leave on the first lost on trials.
trials yeah it should be punished. quickplay control tho? no. i go to trials I expect sweats. I put up with it until i get my pinnacle for the week. then idgaf. in quickplay control tho (which is supposed to be casual) I don't expect it to be the sweat fest that it currently is. like if the match just starts and the enemy team somehow pushed into our spawn in the first 15 seconds, that's my que to leave. I can already tell the direction that match is gonna go, its not gonna be a fun time and its just a waste of time in general. in matches like that I see no reason to stay. again tho if its comp or trials and I get into a match like that, I'll endure just to get it over with. but quickplay? hell no
@@grimreaper63151 Oh yeah definitely not on 6v6 or any game mode since losing winning doesn't really give you any worthwhile rewards. Trials is a must though imho.
For the first leave, sure. If you're leaving repeatedly, you should catch some flak.
@@althechicken9597 in quickplay I disagree. don't feel like getting curbstomped for 10 minutes by 6 trials sweats. no thanks
Get better
Though unrelated, I just got an idea for gambit. Have a player invade strike teams doing strikes in a special gambit playlist. The strike team can que up for it with the promise of better rewards than normal strikes. We can call the mode "Invader."
This happened to Rocket League casual too. You get told off and banned from playing for a bit.
The drifter, shaxx, Saladin and Saint-14 should collab into one game mode and basically hold a game show together
Bungie is a shit company.
Getting banned for leaving a match is dumb asf especially when they can't even figure out their matchmaking and half the time i get paired with people on the other side of the world. This game isnt a competitive shooter.
no its not but before the updates to match making i would experience way more lopsided lobbies. if i go back through my history i can find a specific time when it seemed like they kept pairing all solo teams vs full stacks with mics over and over and over. it was no fun what so ever. i think the match making has solved a lot of this issue but created some others for those at the far ends of the skill curve. but as the player count drops it really seems to get worse for them.
Time to rant and sorry it's gonna be a long one.
I will say this video is very serendipitous because yesterday, I did crucible for the first time in weeks, just so I could finish the triumphs for the solstice. I played 3 matches and backed out of 1 and I was immediately hit with a 5 minute time-out. Mind you I haven't backed out of a match in a long while, not just because I haven't played, but matches I have played. The system is broken. On top of that I have said many times time-outs do no belong in QP because it is not a feel good for anybody. The player still leaves, the team is still down a person no matter what. It makes it feel like a bad overall experience.
I also want to comment on how bungie "communicates" information in-game and out. In-game, they used to be so bad at explaining how things worked. Many perks and quests were worded poorly, but they have gotten better. Another this is how lack of information hurts. I should know in-game and not from 3rd party websites how much damage increase a weapon gets from Rampage, frenzy, etc. I should also be told what "Slightly" or "Greatly" improved means. (They say they don't have the text space in the box, but things like elemental capacitor shows different).
As for communication outside of the game, it is poor. It used to be worse, has gotten better, but it's still bad. Talking at the community is not a good way to communicate. Actual conversation and interactions are needed. Not twitter posts and TWABs. The lack of follow through on promises like more live streams, certain events/activities not coming out, stuff like that, make for a poor experience.
As for buffs/nerfs and breaking stuff, bungie is slow and They rarely get ahead of the curve. Look at the Graviton bug, if it doesn't benefit the player "We'll fix this in due time," but if it were to fire at a faster fire rate and benefits the player, "We have sent out a hotfix effective immediately." I get needing to keep balance in the game, but when it hinders the player they seem to not care. The only exception of recent that I can think of was The Craftening, but that was because it was a big deep dive fix. DE (Warframe's Devs) feels like they try to fix things ASAP no matter if it was bug that hurt or helped the players.
Last thing I have noticed is Bungie is a company focused heavily on analytics. They are good at tracking them, but it seems that they only understand the end product and not what the cause is. They put band aids on because they don't deep dive on things like, Why is the player base in Gambit dropping? They only see that the player base in Gambit is dropping, so let's not put any effort into it, rather than go, "we have put any gambit updates in a while maybe that's why it's dropping."
It's just frustrating because Destiny is one of the only games that no matter how bad it gets players want it to succeed and many other games aren't afforded this opportunity. If the game comes out and is bad, generally the sentiment is "Game sucks let it burn."
TL;DR: Bungie needs to remove bandaid fixes. They need to look at themselves in a mirror, and say it's ok to borrow ideas from successful franchises and incorporate them. Learn to communicate better, learn to accept blame when they screw up and be proactive rather than reactive. Learn to look at the fine details and understand them.
This is why I stay safe by never stepping foot in the crucible
Love how you breakdown why you think what you think. Appreciate the perspective bro
On trials it would also be nice if a team mate leaves it doesn't ruin your card specially when a player is already on the 6th win row.
That map voting is going to be a game changer because going 4 times in a row in Disjunction ain't fun chief!
this would be exploited like crazy.
Yeah, teams would purposely do this when losing a game.
@@masterSageHarpuia On my other comment I stated that they should make the quitter penalty harsher, ie if you leave you get 5-10mins penalty and it keeps increasing every time you do and say let it accumulate within than week so people can't abuse it.
Great video, good ideas. I'd like so much that Bungie sees this and take some ideas, but the only thing that they do is nerf rifts and titan punches every season.
I think more needs to be done to address the disparity between high end and low end players.
It feels like the game mode is catered to like 6 content creators, and everyone else be damned. Changes get made based on what the what the top 1% feel needs to be done, and the lower end players have no incentive to want to get better.
Totally right, I am always dealing with this when everyone companies
I quit when SBMM came in. Same with COD. It punishes players for playing good.
Hi. I watched your video for the first time and thought it was great! So many valid points. Hope Bungie will see this video and take it seriously.
They threatened me to ban me from the Crucible for their own bad decisions so I stopped playing the game entirely.
Other than being forced to play PvP for seasonal, exotic, regular quests or Pathfinder and catalysts, the biggest issue with PvP is the rise of oppressive METAs and playstyles that punishes does who don't make use of them. With Hunters being the biggest issue in terms of balance. Not long ago they gave Knucklehead Radar the ability to track targets just like OEM pre-nerf all by just ADSing which is just unfair if you don't like playing Hunters or their playstyle. And after TFS released Prismatic Hunters made IB unplayable (specially with the amount of threaded spectre spam present) if you didn't play Hunter and just like with Knucklehead Radar, two of the aspects synergize so well in PvP (Threaded Spectre & Winter's Shroud) that if you weren't utilizing them you were at an enormous disadvantage. Pair those 2 aspects with Balance of Power and you get a guaranteed kill without having to fire a single shot. All they had to do was just dodge close to an enemy and the Spectre would kill them (even with 100 resilience) since they are slowed by Winter's Shroud and unable to get away. And if they somehow survive their Swarm Grenades are there ro finish the job. Again without having to fire their weapons. Even with the recent to it it's still busted. In the end it forces people to switch to Hunter even if they don't like playing the class in order to enjoy the Crucible, leave matches whenever they encounter the fun police or just refusing to play the mode altogether. As a Titan main me and many others are not having fun anymore. We've been nerfed to the point of obsolescence in high level and endgame content that I'm actually being kicked from fireteams because I'm a Titan. If I'm being forced to play an entirely different class and playstyle to enjoy the game you're doing something wrong.
SBMM needs to go. Period.
Now, now... before you get the pitchforks and decide to hang me up in the old hanging tree, I have some good reasons for it, and it starts with Soulslikes. You get bullied relentlessly until you find your feet and are forced to become competent with a game's systems and mechanics. Matchmaking in current FPS games miss this sense of progression and player mastery *because* of SBMM.
Imagine you are fighting a boss on your level every single attempt; after awhile you'll run out of things to learn from them, naturally. And it would get pretty boring, naturally. Diversity in opponents and their skill levels matters. You stand to gain more from fighting bosses ABOVE your level, and the lower skill players stand to help as mechanical whetstones. You're tuning your mechanics on those lower skill players, and they're in turn learning from you and tuning theirs. There's a symbiosis there that just can't be built in an SBMM environment. Equality doesn't make games fun or interesting; challenge and adversity does.
In order for PvP to continue to be interesting, well into the future, there needs to be a hierarchy to climb. People need to realize they're going to suck at things to start. I recently picked up drawing and I *suck* at it. I'm atrociously bad at it, but I keep trying because the process itself is something I'm going to look back on in 2-3 years and go "well, that was pretty fun".
Destiny isn't a hard game to mechanically improve at, but it does take time to learn all the interactions and implement them into a core set of loadouts. And while comp is an okay substitute for this, it has notorious matchmaking issues and map balancing issues because the maps weren't built for that. That, and comp lives or dies by the meta, so there's really no casual playlist in Destiny currently. You could count the rotators, but sometimes you just want to play with all the tools as Bungie intended, not with scorch cannons or an LMG.
Literally everyone here is saying they don’t play pvp either because they get bullied relentlessly in game or because they are bullying others relentlessly and it’s not rewarding. These people are crying at the thought of having to finish 4 out of every 5 crucible matches. Do you seriously think that putting them in less fair lobbies is gonna make that better?
@@SaltSpirits Fairness doesn't exist. Equality doesn't exist. That's the core issue with SBMM as a tactic.
We need challenges and challengers; that's how a PvP game thrives. If someone complains about a challenge, then they're probably not in the headspace to be playing PvP games. They're probably the same people that rage when the same tactic kills them, that rage when they feel slighted by some tiny infraction, or the same people that tilt too easily.
PvP isn't fair, it's inherently designed to have winners and losers *and students.*
@@RememberTheDuckYour main point is mostly wrong. Sure there are some situations where you’re right, but if the “challenge” is either something with next to no counter other or something completely overpowered, then your point loses steam pretty quickly. Plus, your point about bosses doesn’t really hold much either. AI in a lot of games has a set “range” or limit to their tactics. Humans, on the other hand, have complex thought and improvisation, which isn’t inherently at a set range. It’s both underpowered and overpowered, depending on the person and the situation.
@@thunderchief7256 You somehow completely missed my point lmao. It wasn't that the players should be more like bosses and boss AI: It was that the game should be better designed around the players that will stick around for the difficulty and challenge.
I was using the boss as a metaphor as a stand-in for the player.
@@RememberTheDuck And you missed mine, too. My main point is that neither SBMM and your idea would really work based on what you’re describing
Big fan of the combined arms idea, was always fun in d1 and I specifically remember the mars map that took place in a canyon OMFG
1:24 remove shotguns and pvp is amazing, at least snipers take some decent skill to use and don't reward stupidity. :)
Remove snipers and pvp is amazing, at least shotguns take some decent skill to use and don’t reward stupidity😂.
@@agamerjourney9146 wtf is bro smoking
As someone who uses both… let’s get along. And agree, remove fusion rifles pvp is amazing😂
@@emberclad8679 As someone who uses both let’s remove smg/sidarms. Pvp will be amazing 🤩 with this counters to fusions and shotguns. Lol 😂
Found the hand holder. Bet you have a lot of fun holding hands all day instead of moving in and picking up the pace
I like hearing nice ideas like these and remember that it's most likely never gonna be seen in-game.Still Awesome ideas.
This is the first vid of yours I’ve ever watched and this was so well thought out it blew my mind. Absolutely amazing.
Solid, well laid out arguments. At first I thought this was meh, but after hearing your points, I would totally agree.
I haven't played in weeks because of an injury - first match had a cheater, I left, got suspensed. Fuck off Bungie.
Every one of these game mode ideas were fantastic
Well said and spot on! Hopefully Bungie will see this and take action.
Might be repeating myself, but i have such warm memories from Killzone 2 pvp, where matches were a lot longer and sometimes people left. We were able to switch teams if there was a free slot. My clan's mission was to help the loosing team. Nobody cared about KD's, we just wanted to make the matches more exiting and help the loosing team. Once a week, our clan leaders gave honorary medals to the best "helpers". Some of us K2 oldtimers play D2 and I hope you still remember the the sweaty 30 min games on Pyrrhus Rise:)))
This is the most inspiring, and most depressing Crucible video I have ever seen. Inspiring because it provides a glimpse of what Crucible could be. Depressing because they now have even less brainpower on staff to implement the ideas, if they were to actually see the video and then get the approval to act on it. This is providing they are humble and recognize how good the ideas are. Incredible video, I will share it FWIW.
Bungie should bring you on as an advisor dude I swear you have the best ideas
Great video, as someone who is newer to destiny and mains PVE I loved some of the game mode ideas. The infected one would be a blast! Great video! Keep it up. 😊
Ngl I 100% love the ideas from this video.. I just don't understand how we went from Bungie doing so very well on halo pvp n game modes to what you said 10 years worth of no real big changes
I completely agree with this, I've started to play dead by daylight again since news of the Bungie layoffs to chill, and I had forgotten about its penalty system for disconnection.... its really bad
Season of arrivals was the most fun I’ve had in crucible, both competitive and casually. I don’t know why, but I felt that I could run off meta builds and still have fun. I don’t remember if there was SBMM in that season, maybe that’s the reason.
I’ve always said this but the best time to have ever played Destiny was Shadowkeep era even if SK itself was shit the game was in a perfect spot
Love me some chipotle :)
Also, as someone who suffered a bit because of frequent network issues during a league stint, It's frustrating when you unintentionally disconnect from a pvp game and get punished for it.
I feel like players leaving wouldn't be this big of an issue if lobby balancing wasn't the weird system that it is. Bungie has givin us a few glimpses at what they use to rank a players "skill" so now that we have that info instead of guesses I will once again say: Instead of putting bots on a team with people like Cammy (who are crazy good at the game to the point they could take a nap and get a "I made this for you" in an sbmm free lobby) and putting really solid players on the enemy team because they're fighting Cammy, how about we do the 1 - 10 scale and the only balancing it does in 6s is the 1-3s never match with 7 - 10s and that rule only breaks when you're in a fireteam that has people on either side of the spectrum. That way you are always matching people RELATIVE to you rather than the teams being lopsided. Then apply the more strict sbmm/rbmm in comp because thats where fun goes to die and you're only there if you care about your rank or you want a specific role of a weapon/alloys. I get that bungie has been tweaking the snakedraft system but with destiny's inherently low floor of what it takes to win a fight and its insanely high ceiling when it comes to movement, positioning, gamesense, map knowledge, and general skill with weapons that don't give you crits on a silver platter, in all honesty the game doesn't reward you for getting better, it arguably punishes you at a certain point with worse lobbies so you literally suffer from success. All and all I agree with the message this video is pushing but that was how I've always felt sbmm should be implemented in D2 because with and without it people complain matchmaking sucks so it needs to be put in in a way where you don't feel like a certain win/loss ratio is enforced
Sorry to ignore the topic but I'm genuinely heartbroken with the layoffs. I skipped the last DLC after watching IHateEverythings review (It's something that I look forward to just as much as every new DLC) and decided that for the first time, despite me wanting to get back into the game again, I'm not going to.
So the new DLC drops, the end of an era, and... It's good? I'm a little low on money right now but I'm finally ready to get back into Destiny and scratch that itch... and then... I mean I'm still probably going to play it but man. This is one of the most important games ever made to me, since it's rated T It was my first ever FPS that wasn't a mobile game and it still due this day my favorite fictional world (except maybe Splatoon) with my favorite art style and art direction and it STILL feels the best out of any other game to point at enemy and shoot. I spent the last decade of my life wishing this game was better and now it may never be.
Great video man! I really liked both this and the gambit one. Well articulated issues, and suggesting solutions over complaining. Looking forwrd to mpre of your content. Cheers!
Every time you pop one of these videos out I always comment; Bungie needs to hire this man. Drop Pete and put TDT in his place. Boom I just solved the biggest problem in Bungie. Now how to word it in the most charismatic and intellectual way like the boy.
Amazing video. 100% agree with every point and suggestion you made. I've been a Destiny pvp main since the Dark Below, and its really unfortunate how bad they've let things get. It's far more frustrating than fun now.
I only leave matches in 6v6 if were 5 minutes in and i haven't gotten a single kill OR assist or fully broken anyones shield. Then ill alt f4 and go sit in the grass outside and watch the birds in the garden and contemplate why i even play d2.
I don't agree with everything said but it's awesome to see how passionate you are and well thought out your opinions on the game are. I really enjoy the style of video you've been doing with this, Arc, state of Titan, etc. Definitely a unique, engaging form of content.
The Special Ammo suggestion would not work as all Specials do not share the same effectiveness (i.e. getting a kill with all 8 Shotgun shells is much easier than getting a kill with all 8 Sniper shots). It would incentivize Shotguns and Grenade Launchers even more as they either are more consistent with scoring kills or assisting in getting easy kills.
I'd suggest going back to the old ammo system but with a twist: you start with 2 kills worth of ammo on each life, but you only can get Special through Primary kills and non-Heavy headshot kills. So, a Primary headshot kill grants 2 kills-worth of Special Ammo, a Primary bodyshot kill only grants 1 kill-worth of Special Ammo, a Special headshot kill grants 1 kill-worth of Special Ammo, and a Special bodyshot kills grant no Special. If extra programming work was put into it, if a player was hit by a Special Weapon then cleaned up before their main health got fully recovered (or after 3-5 seconds), then they will drop 1 less kill-worth than normally to avoid things such as sniper bodyshots into Primary headshot or GL hit into primary bodyshot.
Man ive been wishing they would give you super energy for joining a match in progress for so long. It feels horrid joing late, getting snowballed on, and then you get your super a mimite before the game ends
A point worth noting since you referenced psychology research (which is currently going through a replicability crisis) is that for sustained long-term motivation, extrinsic motivation (i.e., rewards and punishments) has proven far less impactful than intrinsic motivation (i.e., the enjoyment of the process itself). In other words, even if the loot system is improved upon, nobody will suffer through a crap experience for long periods of time anyway. Getting people to like PvP is more important. Historically, Bungie has failed to realize this - which is also why people play new PvE content until they get the relevant loot, and then immediately stop, only to complain about the lack of things to do.
Dang Bungie needs you as a consultant. You have a lot of great ideas. You give constructive criticism AND solutions. Not too much of that happens in forums pertaining to D2 but rather a lot of false accusations against Bungie and whining. I like this game and am in it for the long haul.
I don’t play PVP anymore but was thinking about giving it a try now that my computer setup is less limiting.
The reasons I quit a few years ago.
1. My computer was so bad I could hardly compete. My frame rate was usually around 12-19 and it was difficult to get kills. If I got a few I felt it was a success. And completing bounties or challenges or triumphs took FOREVER.
2. Even though I was fully engaged and active in a match because I didn’t get enough kills Bungie penalized me by not giving me credit or rewards for a completion and treated me like I was AFK.
3. Because of poor play I felt very guilty for being the guy who was the reason my team lost. I don’t like ti be that guy. I am very team focused and, for example, am the guy in PVE who will go back for you to res you or wait until you arrive before moving past a check point or give you a chance to rally at the flag.
The last time I played PVP regularly was when Riptide first came out. I was trying to complete a triumph or maybe just reset my rank but it took 3 days all day of playing crucible.
My body was shot. My moral was shot. My mind was numb. This is from a guy who was as high as top 2% in Time Wasted On Destiny.
But I did manage to get a PVP God Roll Riptide and a PVE God Roll Riptide. I use the latter a lot. But I don’t use the former obviously.
I completed the task but vowed to never ever go back into PVP until I got a new computer.
I have a new computer now. It’s minimal in hardware needs fir the game.
But what keeps me from jumping back into PVP to give it a try is how over the past couple years now the community, at large, has complained about its many flaws. The one in particular that stands out to me is how someone with a meta or build that crushes everyone in sight has taken the enjoyment out of it.
Enjoyment is the only reason I would come back.
If I have removed a hindrance on my end, the computer, only to be met with the likelihood that I will have no success due to my own lack of skill AND fighting against people with God like powers I’m gonna pass.
I do hope that PVP gets better because I don’t want it to just disappear. I don’t play destiny PVP that much but I still like it when it’s there.
A 1v1 gamemode would be a godsend, quite literally the biggest deciding factors in crucible are your teammates, and most of the times your teammates are randoms, leaving many games up to just RNG on if you win or lose. Ofc if you are a good player you can try to bridge the cap, but if your enemies are 3 peeking and your teammates ran off to the other side of the map, there's barely anything you could do yourself. A 1v1 gamemode would eliminate randomness and guarantee that when or if you lose, it's all your fault and you just need to git good, or that you're lagging your choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wow
crazy title got me hooked
These are great ideas. Whenever I play Crucible, it's usually for seasonal challenges, pathways, and Iron Banner gear. I don't hate Crucible, but the incentive to actually commit to "get good" is definitely NOT there for me. And as someone who likes catalyst farming, having specific exotics that require playing the gamemode and/or getting behind in the match (looking at you Vigilance Wing), is rough.
Love your videos, especially the "Spicy Clips" series.
Your proposal for addressing the backfill disparity doesn't go far enough. I have had multiple matches where I join late and get supered 3-4 times right off the drop. You get super energy for kills, so the team that is dominating is already gets their supers faster (this mechanic fundamentally makes a bad situation worse). I would rather that match making never put me in a match where my team has 50% or less than the other teams score. I think I have managed to turn that situation around once in 7 years of playing. When I am on the team getting farmed, I just want the match to end so that matchmaking can try again. Giving my team superman to carry us back from the dead isn't what I want - odds are he is not going to stop the other team from consistently beating me.
I can usually tell in the first few minutes of a match if it is going to be competitive or a slaughter. The fundamental problem Bungle has now is that they have shrunk their player pool so much that they don't have enough people to make good matches. One thing that I think should be addressed is the rewards, even (especially?) in the casual lists. I have been playing for years. At this point, I do not need armor - all of my armor is 65+ stat rolled. I do not think that the casual list can drop over 61 and even that high is super rare. Consequently, getting armor as a reward is a complete waste of time. If I got high stat rolls occasionally, I don't think it would cheapen the pinnacle activities that much, but it would make it so I don't just auto delete every reward without looking at it. My vault is full of god rolls. If I get a new god roll, I have to figure out what I am going to delete to make space for it. I don't know what rewards would feel good, but I know the current state of rewards provides me zero motivation to play.
I'd like to see a game mode where everyone loads in and gets the same loadout and abilities at random. We'll find out who has skills versus who knows to make a meta build.