I'm just starting out, and for some reason, it's VERY hard to get simple s10 e9 tuning help where someone just plucks the strings one by one. I was getting extremely frustrated. This has been by far the most helpful video I've seen yet. Thanks a ton. 2:36 For Open E9 tuning
All western music since the Baroque uses equal temperament because of popularity of modulation, that is the practice of moving through multiple key centers in the course of a single piece. You have to use equal temperament tuning (or as close as the physical restrictions as your instrument allows) if you play in multiple keys. It seems useful, and also self-evident, to note that an 'E' is not always a root, and a 'G#' is not always a third scale degree. Sometimes, a G# is a root, and if you tune it flat, you will be very out-of-tune in the key of G# (Ab)!
@@johnstarrett7754 Respectfully, there are many incidents on steel guitars; when JI clashes. For example: there is NO way to tune JI on the F# strings (On E9th) with the B's vs the C#'s. Many a player has tried for untold hours to make them both work JI. But it is impossible. The D on the 9th string will not sound right if you don't tune it ET; to make it the "dominate 7th note"(E7th). Yet you CAN tune it to JI if you use it with a D chord. Etc, etc, and ETC. It used to drive Buddy Emmons so mad; that he would some time throw his guitar, exuding a bunch of expletives; UNTIL he finally realized he had to go to ET. He did. So did Weldon Myrick and others did it. They usually uttered, "I simply can't fight it any more! And don't even try JI on the C6th neck, because there are so many clashes; it can drive a player nuts; unless he tunes ET across the board. He must give into ET and let his ears "culture" in a band, over time. Then he will not hear the "beats" that used to drive him crazy. Oh yes. For whatever it's worth.
You are 100% correct mrtriffid. Those who tune JI are kidding themselves. I can assure you that if you tune JI; and are asked to play in an orchestra; the director will tell you (quicker than the man behind you; who blows his horn when the light turns from red to green); your guitar is OUT of tune because you are "FLAT". And in most cases you will have to tune ET (Equal Temperament) or you will be told, "Get off the stage!". Oh Indeed. The reasons for this is: Orchestra musicians have their ears "cultured" to ET from youth. And they no longer hear the "beats"; that cause steel players to want to tune "Harmonically pure" (JI-Just Intonation). Also, most ALL other musical instruments can NOT be tuned to JI. They must be tuned ET to be able to play in all keys. IE: Keyboard instruments, wind instruments, all other string instruments. The only reason that the steel Guitar can be tuned JI is because it uses a bar instead of pressing the strings onto frets. Believe it or not.
@@MrPatdeeee Yes, there are things that no combinations of standard knee levers and pedals can take care of, but you can certainly tune mostly to JI and take care of modulation suing the bar. I played fretless bass for quite a while with a steel player who tuned JI and it worked beautifully. No one ever told us we were out of tune, but they did tell us to turn down every so often. With a few extra foot pedals one could fix some of the problems you mention, but I wouldn't count on anyone doing that because of the cost and general necessities of playing with ET instruments.
@@johnstarrett7754changing keys with the bar doesn’t fix the issue. It’s the ratios between the notes that matter. If you tune to the ratios of one key, and then switch to another key, the ratios will be off. It’s just the physics of sound. Can’t get around it.
I've been playing professionally and semi pro 25 years...I've used every tuning under the sun. Talked to everyone I know ( even LLoyd Green ( that's not to say that he and I are close friends, but he did give me advice when I was a very young player.) I have never been completely satisfied with my tuning. As you know everybody hears tones a little differently and what sounds good to some people just never hit the spot for me. What you are teaching is the most helpful advice I've every received. Thanks. Now do you have any advice about staying in tune...LOL.
Hey there Rady guy, thanks for all that you do. I didn't get here in time, so I don't know much. I would ask why you have the black cloth under the picking hand..? Keep up the good work.
Thanks Mr. BreakRAK! It's not really anything special, it's just so the viewer can see my right hand better when filming otherwise the silver plate washes out the right hand view.
What about 5th knee lever, left knee vertical? What about a Franklin, 4th floor pedal, how to tune? Yours is a Jeff Newman style tuning, very good. Billy Cooper tunes straight up. Jeff seldom played 3 strings at the same time. Jeff said the human brain can process 1 or 2 strings struck at the same time. Otherwise, the brain gets confused, too many overtones.
The issue of Just Intonation vs Equal Temperament has been known since Pythagoras and the ancient Greeks. If you want to be in tune with yourself and always play in the same key, go with Just Intonation. If you want to play in a group of musicians with multiple instruments and play in multiple keys, go with equal temperament. There is a reason why the piano is tuned to equal temperament. They already went through this headache, and arrived at equal temperament as the standard temperament for fixed pitch instruments. Just tune to the dang piano! Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You’ll just waste years chasing ghosts, and eventually arrive at the conclusion of equal temperament being the way to go.
This is exactly why people shouldn't mess with Just Intonation. It just confuses people and creates more problems than it solves. Just tune to the piano, which uses Equal Temperament. All these guys that go down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out their own tuning systems are ultimately chasing ghosts. These exact tuning issues have been known since Pythagoras and the ancient greeks. Multiple temperament systems have been created throughout history, and Equal Temperament is the one that is by far and large in use. The physics and math of sound doesn't change. Literally, steel players are trying to reinvent the wheel only to eventually find out that their exact problem has existed for 100's of years, and an answer has already been found. Just tune to the Piano and use your ears and adjust. That's literally what 99.9% other musicians do. The piano is the standard. If people want to chase their intellectual curiosity and create music using other systems of temperament, and that gives them pleasure, by all means. The rest of us are going to be performing music with other chordal instruments: piano players, guitar players, and bass players whose instruments are all fixed pitch based upon the Equal Temperament system. Equal Temperament is not without its faults, but it is the best compromise given the practical needs of playing music in multiple keys and in groups of musicians who play other instruments.
I'm just starting out, and for some reason, it's VERY hard to get simple s10 e9 tuning help where someone just plucks the strings one by one. I was getting extremely frustrated. This has been by far the most helpful video I've seen yet. Thanks a ton. 2:36 For Open E9 tuning
Thanks Ottomatic! For more of my steel stuff check out RadyGuide.com
Thank you for this. Great job. I've recently started gigging and recording with mine
All western music since the Baroque uses equal temperament because of popularity of modulation, that is the practice of moving through multiple key centers in the course of a single piece. You have to use equal temperament tuning (or as close as the physical restrictions as your instrument allows) if you play in multiple keys.
It seems useful, and also self-evident, to note that an 'E' is not always a root, and a 'G#' is not always a third scale degree. Sometimes, a G# is a root, and if you tune it flat, you will be very out-of-tune in the key of G# (Ab)!
Yes, but on a steel that does not matter much because you change keys mainly by the bar.
@@johnstarrett7754 Respectfully, there are many incidents on steel guitars; when JI clashes. For example: there is NO way to tune JI on the F# strings (On E9th) with the B's vs the C#'s. Many a player has tried for untold hours to make them both work JI. But it is impossible.
The D on the 9th string will not sound right if you don't tune it ET; to make it the "dominate 7th note"(E7th). Yet you CAN tune it to JI if you use it with a D chord.
Etc, etc, and ETC.
It used to drive Buddy Emmons so mad; that he would some time throw his guitar, exuding a bunch of expletives; UNTIL he finally realized he had to go to ET. He did. So did Weldon Myrick and others did it. They usually uttered, "I simply can't fight it any more!
And don't even try JI on the C6th neck, because there are so many clashes; it can drive a player nuts; unless he tunes ET across the board. He must give into ET and let his ears "culture" in a band, over time. Then he will not hear the "beats" that used to drive him crazy. Oh yes.
For whatever it's worth.
You are 100% correct mrtriffid. Those who tune JI are kidding themselves. I can assure you that if you tune JI; and are asked to play in an orchestra; the director will tell you (quicker than the man behind you; who blows his horn when the light turns from red to green); your guitar is OUT of tune because you are "FLAT". And in most cases you will have to tune ET (Equal Temperament) or you will be told, "Get off the stage!". Oh Indeed.
The reasons for this is: Orchestra musicians have their ears "cultured" to ET from youth. And they no longer hear the "beats"; that cause steel players to want to tune "Harmonically pure" (JI-Just Intonation). Also, most ALL other musical instruments can NOT be tuned to JI. They must be tuned ET to be able to play in all keys. IE: Keyboard instruments, wind instruments, all other string instruments.
The only reason that the steel Guitar can be tuned JI is because it uses a bar instead of pressing the strings onto frets.
Believe it or not.
@@MrPatdeeee Yes, there are things that no combinations of standard knee levers and pedals can take care of, but you can certainly tune mostly to JI and take care of modulation suing the bar. I played fretless bass for quite a while with a steel player who tuned JI and it worked beautifully. No one ever told us we were out of tune, but they did tell us to turn down every so often. With a few extra foot pedals one could fix some of the problems you mention, but I wouldn't count on anyone doing that because of the cost and general necessities of playing with ET instruments.
@@johnstarrett7754changing keys with the bar doesn’t fix the issue. It’s the ratios between the notes that matter.
If you tune to the ratios of one key, and then switch to another key, the ratios will be off.
It’s just the physics of sound. Can’t get around it.
I've been playing professionally and semi pro 25 years...I've used every tuning under the sun. Talked to everyone I know ( even LLoyd Green ( that's not to say that he and I are close friends, but he did give me advice when I was a very young player.) I have never been completely satisfied with my tuning. As you know everybody hears tones a little differently and what sounds good to some people just never hit the spot for me. What you are teaching is the most helpful advice I've every received. Thanks. Now do you have any advice about staying in tune...LOL.
I tune my E's to 442.5 and B's to 442. F#'s to 441.5 and strings 2,3 and 6 to 439 and string 2 to 441.5
Best instructions on tuning theory for a psg. No two guitars are the same. Great video!
Hey there Rady guy, thanks for all that you do. I didn't get here in time, so I don't know much. I would ask why you have the black cloth under the picking hand..? Keep up the good work.
Thanks Mr. BreakRAK! It's not really anything special, it's just so the viewer can see my right hand better when filming otherwise the silver plate washes out the right hand view.
Thanks a bunch...
What about 5th knee lever, left knee vertical? What about a Franklin, 4th floor pedal, how to tune? Yours is a Jeff Newman style tuning, very good. Billy Cooper tunes straight up. Jeff seldom played 3 strings at the same time. Jeff said the human brain can process 1 or 2 strings struck at the same time. Otherwise, the brain gets confused, too many overtones.
You can save all of those presets in your Stroboflip. Why the card?
I use the card, cause I don't know how to save them in my Stroboflip, Lol.
How do you do it?
@@jeffsguitarsteel3081 NOR DO I ONLY BECAUSE MY BUDDY THAT SOLD IT TO ME DID IT FOR ME. LOL!! GUESS IMA HAVE TO GET THE BOOK OUT!
have lost my 2nd string full drop...can't seem to get it to lower enough...what am i doing wrong...thanks tom
Some steels don't have that drop, some are just a half step. Which in all honesty is probably better as that half bump gets mushy.
Big Dave Eats Five Garbage Burritos Every Garbage Day Festival
Now we're talking! That's a solid acronym.
The issue of Just Intonation vs Equal Temperament has been known since Pythagoras and the ancient Greeks.
If you want to be in tune with yourself and always play in the same key, go with Just Intonation.
If you want to play in a group of musicians with multiple instruments and play in multiple keys, go with equal temperament.
There is a reason why the piano is tuned to equal temperament. They already went through this headache, and arrived at equal temperament as the standard temperament for fixed pitch instruments.
Just tune to the dang piano! Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You’ll just waste years chasing ghosts, and eventually arrive at the conclusion of equal temperament being the way to go.
what about the poul frankling pedal.? you have it on the gitar.
I just have it lowering string 6 and 5. With the Franklin Pedal down I tune string 5 to 442 and string 6 to 438.5
Call me confused, but A is 440, how can E be 442?
This is exactly why people shouldn't mess with Just Intonation. It just confuses people and creates more problems than it solves.
Just tune to the piano, which uses Equal Temperament.
All these guys that go down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out their own tuning systems are ultimately chasing ghosts.
These exact tuning issues have been known since Pythagoras and the ancient greeks. Multiple temperament systems have been created throughout history, and Equal Temperament is the one that is by far and large in use. The physics and math of sound doesn't change.
Literally, steel players are trying to reinvent the wheel only to eventually find out that their exact problem has existed for 100's of years, and an answer has already been found.
Just tune to the Piano and use your ears and adjust. That's literally what 99.9% other musicians do. The piano is the standard.
If people want to chase their intellectual curiosity and create music using other systems of temperament, and that gives them pleasure, by all means.
The rest of us are going to be performing music with other chordal instruments: piano players, guitar players, and bass players whose instruments are all fixed pitch based upon the Equal Temperament system.
Equal Temperament is not without its faults, but it is the best compromise given the practical needs of playing music in multiple keys and in groups of musicians who play other instruments.
@@michaelkiese7794 now THAT makes sense!
Thanks for the candid reply.
James
@@jameskellam2980 I just wanted to make something clear: Just Intonation and Pure Temperament are synonyms which describe the same thing.
LOL