LIKE if you think E-Cargo Bikes could catch on & SHARE if you think smaller, cleaner vehicles are the future. Helen heads to the London village of Barnes to find out how local independent shops are partnering with Ginger Town to use Tern e-cargo bikes for local deliveries. As more and more villages, towns and cities look for ways to reduce the number of vehicles on their streets, could the E-Cargo Bike offer the perfect solution to small scale cargo transport? These electro assist bikes might be small and nimble, but can also hold a fair amount of delivery stock and could be part of the answer to making high street shops more accessible. Ginger Town - www.ginger.town/ Tern Bikes - www.ternbicycles.com/uk/ London Cycling Campaign - www.lcc.org.uk/ Fully Charged is 100% independent thanks to UA-cam Memberships and Patreons. Without you this channel wouldn’t be possible! If you’d like to help support the Fully Charged channel and its mission: Become a Patreon: www.patreon.com/fullychargedshow Become a UA-cam member: use JOIN button above Subscribe to Fully Charged & the Fully Charged PLUS channels Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : buff.ly/2GybGt0 Browse the Fully Charged store: shop.fullycharged.show/ Visit our LIVE exhibitions in the UK, USA & Europe: FullyCharged.Show/events Subscribe for episode alerts and the Fully Charged newsletter: fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/ Visit: FullyCharged.Show Find us on Twitter: twitter.com/fullychargedshw Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/fullychargedshow *Timestamps* 0:00 welcome to Barnes 0:27 are e-cargo bikes the future for deliveries? 1:11 digital high streets 1:44 bringing the high street to your door 2:09 Ginger Town partnership 2:21 what is an e-cargo bike? 3:31 Tern GSD e-cargo bike 3:55 big panniers 4:42 on your bike! 5:12 delivery costs 5:47 reviving the high street? 6:43 transport space sharing 8:17 quick, efficient & emission free deliveries 8:39 e-bike friction? 10:05 shared transport to save on costs 11:05 more people want to cycle 12:24 smaller, cleaner vehicles needed 12:58 last mile delivery solution 13:49 more e-cargo bikes!!
"SHARE if you think smaller, cleaner vehicles are the future" I currently have a small car, in a small parking space - too small for a Leaf. Yes, I want a electric car... but I do still need a reasonable range, of about 250Km with half of that at highways speed. This is a requirement that the car makers have not managed to meet yet.
@@John.0z Your comment caught my eye because I've just returned from a 257 km round trip with about 60% of that on highways. The battery wasn't full when I left. The car is a Tesla Model 3, so not a small car, but a journey of this distance is inconsequential, the car has a range of between 460 and 480 km. A similar range can be achieved in the Hyundai Kona, the Kia e-Niro and numerous other cars coming to market in the next year. With current battery technology a very small car with 250 km plus range is a big challenge, however it is obvious this will be solved in the next 5 years.
They are not only the future, they are the now! We have two ebikes at our house. One for my 32km commute and another cargo bike for hauling the kids and getting groceries. And there are loads of people delivering everyting from pizzas to packages on ebikes here in Seattle already. Now I just need a electric replacement for my Honda Oddesey and I'll be 100% electric.
IT's amussing, and a bit sad, that there is even a discussion about how much space the cargo bikes are taking up. When was the last time a car reviewer gave a toss about how much space a Land Rover takes up?
I think it was perhaps an intentionally leading question to highlight how little space it uses, in comparison to vans and lorries, but yes, perhaps they should have emphasized that comparison a bit more :)
I drive my cargo bike with a lil safety flag on the rear to indicate that I am a bit longer than what everybody is used to. Even more important when pulling a cart or when driving a fast e-bike. Everybody can estimate size and speed of a regular bike, we all grew up on a bicycle. Larger and especially faster e-bikes are different, many a road user risks being wrongfooted and not allow enough space for these bikes.
You are light-years ahead of us in USA. The best-selling vehicles here are trucks that weigh 2000kg, minimum. Our govt continues to subsidize gasoline and asphalt, and requires businesses to build parking to accomodate them.
@@meloapa Ah don't worry. I'm from Europe and I drive a US made cargo bike, a Yuba Mundo. It is a bit heavy and overbuilt but totally fit for purpose ;-)
@@astranger448 as with motorcycles most accidents happen because people miss judge closing speed and pull out in front causing an accident. You always have to expect the other user has not judged your speed right. One glance = not a chance, 2 glances possibly seen you, one glance followed by a good look at you should mean you are safe... unless the driver is a total knob which is very common unfortunately.
Fully charged is such a fun show. I was not even THAT into electric cars, but the objective, knowledgeable and passionate content is exciting! I am impressed by the breadth of the presenters, in their acumen and background, and the high-quality overall presentation. Good job guys! for a fun note on the "cast" we have an oceanographer/physicist (Helen in this vid!), classic auto journalist, an educational content pro,, a CAVE DIVER redbull-y guy, and an expert on EV industry. robert did well here
I wish I’d had one of these 59years ago when delivering for a local grocery shop. I used somethings similar small front wheel large basket over it and NO motor, god it was hard work for 2shilling and six pence a day.
Colin Munro # ditto (I was a butcher’s delivery boy) Reggie Buffat # 2 shillings and 6 pence = £0.125 # The average price of a house (UK) in 1961 was £2,530 hamshackleton # Makes us wonder why we ever worked for a living! Kingsoupturbo # Nothing has really changed in the last six million years
Colin Munro # ditto (I was a butcher’s delivery boy) Reggie Buffat # 2 shillings and 6 pence = £0.125 # The average price of a house (UK) in 1961 was £2,530 hamshackleton # Makes us wonder why we ever worked for a living! Kingsoupturbo # Nothing has really changed in the last six million years
I love these. I have a non-e cargo bike and it has replaced my car for everything I do. I can see these being popular for a while and if it means that councils start to build proper cycling infrastructure to support them and free up space in our towns from cars and vans then all power to them.
Yes and the ability to use them safely on the dedicated cycle lanes that the UK seem to have problems creating. Everywhere should have lanes for heavy vehicles including cars, cycles of all types including e-scooters, and lanes for pedestrians but we have old structures and no space to do a proper job of it.
I do our whole weekly shop by cargo bike (well, trailer). The trailer takes just about the same amount as a deep shopping trolley so that works fine. It's just about 2 miles to Tesco. Have been doing this for more than a decade now. It was the last thing we were still using the car for short journeys for, but driving less than a mile to the supermarket was kind of embarassing, so I made a trailer.
Sometimes things were just better "back when I were a lad". For example - milk bottles. If all our liquid products came in re-usable containers (not necessarily glass ones, some plastic ones could be re-used) then we could all return our bottles for washing, sterilisation and re-use when we go back to the supermarket. Imagine generic bottles of differing sizes, from 200ml up to 2.27l, used for every consumable liquid - from cola to milk to bottled water. Bio-degradable (perhaps PLA) labels being the only custom thing on them. Nothing going into landfill or oceans. It worked for decades, why can we not go back to that system? In theory, all our products could come in such generic, re-usable containers. With a little thought in the design stage, they could even stack inside each other, making returning the packaging vastly easier. It may even end up cheaper than disposable packaging, once everything is running along full chat.
@@antontaylor4530 we get our milk delivered in glass bottles,( east london) the dairy just about survived and now is getting lots of new customers, there was some talk about unilever (who own dozens of consumer brands) doing standardised bottles and contianers for refilling, but yet to see if it would come to anything other than PR fluff
@@antontaylor4530 And with deliveries on such e-cargo bikes, we can improve their productivity by having them return the empties. I doubt though it will ever revert to the past. I think it might be more likely that we use some elements of the past (like reusable containers) but have them returned to a reusable container station where these things are cleaned, sterilised to approved standards.
You could do so many videos on e-cargo bikes. Just like how you review individual car models. I think EAV would be a great company to feature. Their 4 wheel bike-van is really cool.
The way to go, back in 1960, me and Duxsy Jackson dashed home off the school bus, got changed and off to Hinton's Supermarket in Loftus town square and delivered groceries on old single speed butcher bikes and was it hilly! Great time and managed to save enough for my first brand new Dawes racer just after 13th birthday!
If you want to do more episodes on electric last mile delivery of food (which I would gladly watch), an interesting case could be PicNic in the Netherlands. They essentially cut out the physical grocery store, and drive groceries ordered with an app directly to you door (outside corona even in your kitchen) in small electric vehicles. This way they waste much less food, and because of the lack of physical stores they can have comparable prices with other Dutch supermarkets.
Its not a case of better infastructure, we just need infastructure. I live in southwest london and 99% of the roads do not have cycle lanes and those that do are worn out dotted lines that force you into the gutter.
Where are these cycle lanes going to fit, are you going to demolish houses to accommodate cycle lanes or dig up pavements, you certainly cant ban cars as not everyone can ride a bike.
@@stevehayward1854 Actually i see no issue with restricting the number of cars on the road and taking back some of the space they use. Most journeys are made by one person of distances under 2 miles, the overwhelming majority could ride a bike and those that cant could find another route. Cycle lanes are far more efficient uses of space than roads, you can fit 10 bikes in the space of 1 car. Cars dont sit at the top of some imaginary heirarchy, we should be making choices that are best for our health and the planet.
@@stevehayward1854 Maybe the government should do something about all the free car storage it gives to motorists. I see a lot of comments from certain motorists saying no room for bikes on the road, but most road I see have two lines of cars parked down them, often on the pavement too. The roads and pavements were built for moving things, not storing things.
@@stevehayward1854 It's not really about cycle lanes. Streets must not be planned with cars as the premier user always and everywhere. If we do that then it will be found that some places will be good for cars and they can be encouraged and some will be bad and they will be discouraged, same for every other transport type. But the idea that a particular street would preference bikes (or buses, or pedestrians or cargo ebikes) over cars is a foreign idea almost everywhere in the world.
Well done production Fully Charged. Dr. Czerski hosting a presentation on ideas & potential solutions is what content I look forward to with these episodes she tends to host. Consideration with the use of e-cargo bicycles is appreciated & a topic my local Sierra Club chapter has been touting.
I remember when as a child I had a round where I had to use a heavy butchers bike with a huge cage and frame and basket on the front and back. The delivery round was all uphill and no one wanted to take it. It was known as the worst delivery round on the books. The Bike as so heavy that when you got to the bottom of the hill you had to get off and push. The ride back was fantastic as it was all down hill. At least it made me fit and from there on I took up cycling which I continued till I became disabled. I still have a hand built Mecian bike, sadly doing nothing.
From my distant, Canadian perspective, the UK seems so very well suited for ideas like this. From having centralized high streets in compact (relatively) small villages, to your more favourable seasonal weather. Using E-Cargo bikes seems like an obvious way forward. I love it.
@@Gian092 Not for its sunny weather in particular, but very mild weather relative to most parts of the world- especially Canada, where Erin Wiebe is from! Extremely cold winters and hot winters are the norm for much of/all of Canada. Putting a few extra layers on and a waterproof is generally all you need to cope with bad weather in Britain.
Been pedaling a regular cargo bike for like 10 years now (Yuba Mundo). With my knees not becoming any better I converted it for electric operation with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit. Readily available, great range of power and speed options, reasonable price and they sell an optional tool kit with everything needed for the conversion. Maybe do a review of those kits?
Kits are a good idea for some circumstances, but my cargo bike is designed to take 136kg (or two people) and very robust, I looked at kits before but couldn’t find any bike built well enough.
@@IDann1 Wheel kits are problematic for cargo bikes, you want reinforced wheels. Mid drive kits fit in/in front of the crankshaft housing so you keep the regular wheels. Sturdy enough for mine which is rated for 200kg ;-)
@@astranger448 There are many different solutions for cargo bikes, i’m very happy with my rad runner, although I wish I had the original 750W motor,One thing I would never ride again is a front wheel drive... I had my fathers old front wheel drive ebike, I found it extremely dangerous as it was slip the front wheel, I ended up twisting my back as I fell off... that said, had to change around the front and back brakes on my Rad power bike, as for some strange reason American spec bikes put the brakes round the wrong way... and this was extremely dangerous as I first went down a road and hit gravel😆
@@IDann1 Looked into a Rad myself, there is a dealer network in Europe now. But since my Yuba had a lot more life in it I rebuilt it with a mid drive kit. Not overly difficult if you are kinda handy.
@@IDann1 we just bought a RadRunner. Absolutely love it. You must try the EggRider v2 display upgrade. It unlocks extra power from the controller unit which really helps on hill climbing.
We have a Rad Power RadRunner utility/cargo bike bought from their EU website. Absolutely love it! Have added racks and baskets and a rear passenger seat. It can climb hills despite its weight and handicapped motor controller. All in, the price was £1400 which we think is good value compared to similar bikes on the market.
This is not typical cargo bike. You should test a long-john with a front box - eg. Urban Arrow used by PedalMe in London. That would be more representative and I would love to see such video!
As a kid I remember the butchers boy doing deliveries like this and now is the time to get back to this style of deliveries, ultra low carbon and fitter staff = win:win !
And will accept the butcher boys to be paid as much were the boys in the past? In small communities like that, maybe. But in cities, automatic deliveries is the real solution. But for this the access ways needs to be built properly. I am curios which city will do this first.
When I was a lad the local shops delivered,the butcher on his bike and the small super market in his van. E bikes could be a good idea for local shops.
For moving large numbers of people around a densely-populated urban area, the automobile - however powered or piloted - is objectively the _worst_ tool for the job. That's not a matter of politics or personal preference, it's a matter of geometry, arithmetic and physics. The more of our roadways we can dedicate to _everything else_ - bicycles and other personal-sized vehicles of all sorts, mass transit, larger walkways, literally anything but cars - the more efficiently and pleasantly we'll be able to move ourselves and our stuff about. And that goes as well for those applications for which the car _is_ the tool for the job, because the space that remains dedicated to that mode will be far less crowded when more efficient options are available for everything else.
Great video and lots of interesting views. You really should have been talking to the actual delivery bike riders to get their practical experience of what works and what doesn't and the various different pro's and con's. Also, even though the Tern featured is a very impressive bike on it's own that costs £4,000+ without accessories, you can buy a variety of trailers similar to the one attached to it from between £100-£300. And quite literally, a trailer turns any bike, e or otherwise into a cargo bike and a real world practical alternative to a car. I currently have two. A large sized dog trailer which is ideal because it's bigger than most normal Cargo trailers and is completely covered and self contained so nothing will fall out. Just load your large reusable shopping bags into it as you would into the boot of your car. Zip it up and go. I've had up to 70kg in it but average 30-50kg. And an actual cargo trailer I can carry a full sized lawnmower on or fit 60x80cm euro containers on. They cost £110 and £95 each respectively. You don't have to spend big money. I'm currently using a manual pedal power only hybrid bike but I do intend to go "e" this year with a similar type all purpose workhorse to go further and carry/pull more.
there are loads of them around London now, it does make sense for small shops (our local wine shop uses one for deliveries) and increasingly people are using them to ferry kids to school. ..
I'd like to see the emergence of hubs that are much more local than the regional UPS, DPD, DHL distribution centres. These hubs can act as the delivery destination for all those ICE vehicles. Electric vans then take over the last mile and E-Cargo bikes would fit into this model well, carrying the tons of smaller packages that don't need a large van. I love EVs but the answer to sustainable transport in a more pleasant environment isn't just EVs, it's fewer large vehicles.
That was amusing! I lived in Barnes for 10 years, through the 80s into the early 90s. There are lots of cycle paths, official and un-official through the area. Although I never had a bike there, I had friends who did, and I used to walk a lot, and knew all the back doubles. I had an office in one of the buildings overlooking the pond - in fact you can just see it behind Helen in one of her pieces to camera - and there were a couple of delis in the area that used bikes to deliver sandwich orders. Lots of small business and shops used that service. E-bikes would have been an advantage. BTW, some of the continuity was abysmal! The editor had obviously not consulted a map!
Yeah, wish these had been around when I had my grocery boy delivery job after school back in the 70s. Taking a big box of fruit and veg up them welsh hills on a single speed that already weighed over 25kg was not fun (nor were the rod actuated brakes on the way down!!). I'm not sure the model of a delivery service for shops will work, but a 'Boris Bike' type hire as you go to be shared by the local shops may be? Great to see traditional methods revived with a modern slant.
I delivered milk in the 60s on a bike carrying 6 crates 1 wheel at back 2 to the front a fixed wheel set up I had to stand to make it move and the hotdog sellers in the big cities had them must have been good for me still cycling
in the US the radpowerbike Rad Wagon has a throttle and its all over, a really sweet alternative to small vans. I have an electric bike its changed me.
I’ve had the Rad runner for the past year doing deliveries in the uk 🇬🇧, but unfortunately we are restricted to 250watts 15mph motor,and no throttle,(EU law 🤪)
Here, here. I'm from Austin TX (USA), and there's a city proposition ("Prop B") this election cycle that would build out miles of protected bike lanes. Hope it passes.
I think ultimately we just need to remove cars from a lot of our town centres. The issue is that then it's easier to just drive to an out of town shopping centre with parking. A difficult balance to strike.
It's all about the infrastruture. But right now the political will is a token effort so they seem to be doing something. The rate of change is pitiful. But with Gorverments that would ok projects like HS2; right now we don't stand a chance. Which is a crying shame!
Yep infrastructure, but efficiency too. And even it seems cleaner and nicer, it needs a person to drive it. This is expensive. So the delivery must be automatic. Drones and self driving carts rise other issues, so a different approach may be a good solution. Transport by pipe. So for delivering an cheap item like water or gas we installed pipes and was cost effective. And it may be not metal pipes but concrete. or a combination of access with the other pipes like a tunnel. We see all the time diggings for new pipes or fixing the broken ones or new cables so on. So why not make infrastructure for long term, under sidewalks tunnels to host all the pipes required, and enough space to replace them when required, so no need to dig the streets again. These tunnels may host the tracks for automatic carts too. Of course some initial investment, but a lot of future savings. And no riding in the rain...
HS2 is badly needed, it will free of masses of capacity on existing networks for freight and local services, by moving inter-city fast trains off those massively congested tracks. What is a shame is that the negativity around HS2 has pressured the planners to find savings, cutting good ideas like turning parallel access roads used during development into bike lanes once the line is complete. Rail and cycling should go hand in hand. You can't build a station within walking distance of everyone's house, and you can't build park and ride facilities for cars that are big enough to satisfy demand. But look at The Netherlands, with their huge parking facilities for thousands of bikes at rail stations. That's what we ought to be doing. Let's have HS2, HS3, *and* massively improved cycling infrastructure! It doesn't have to be either / or.
There needs to be a complete rethink about EBikes on our roads. The 15mph limit is too slow as the speed limit is generally 20 to 30mph in cities. My solution would be to increase the EBike speed to 25mph and to reduce all city car speed to 20 to 25mph. Then the cyclist can be in the safe part of the road rather than in the gutter. This way we don’t need to build as many cycle lanes. Let’s just try to get people to agree to allow us to take central stage on the roads. Slower cars = good and safer. Faster EBikes = good and still safe.
I don't think you are supposed to be on roads with speed limits of 30mph or higher with a bicycle, in the Netherlands there would be a bicycle path next to it (a separate path, not a gutter solution), on 20mph or lower roads it should be no problem to intermingle bicycles with cars. question: if a bicycle hit or get hit by a car, who is responsible in your country? Here the car would be at fault most of the time unless you have proof it was totally the bicycles fault (like car standing still and bicycle hits car) if you build more separate bicycle paths, more people would get out a car and on a bicycle, making the roads better for car users that have no other option. if you want the ebike to be faster like 20-30mph assisted, it basically becomes a High Speed Ebike/Pedelec which most likely have the same rules as a moped/scooter in the UK ?
@@DarkDutch007 thank you for that information very interesting and you bring up good points. My thought about raising the EBike speed limit and slowing cars down comes from my own experience of riding a motorcycle and a fast EBike where I feel safer in the middle of the road riding with the traffic rather being overtaken by it. The damage to pedestrians and cyclists alike is greatly reduced by slowing down the average speed of cars in urban settings. This is why we see more 20mph speed limits now in the U.K. especially around schools. It is not practical to build cycle paths in many areas and as such is generally only half a solution. The task of encouraging people out of their cars and onto bikes is not easy for sure and needs radical ideas to be considered in addition to just building cycle paths. IMHO.
Electric bikes and cargo vehicles are a way of saving our shopping streets, go out do your shopping, have something to eat, go for a walk, then return home for your pre-arranged delivery. It kind of happens now but not to the extent it should be.
In my local area we have a number of deliveries by bike, in some cases e-bike. Flowers, coffee beans, bread and pastries, pasta and beer are all delivered locally, some from local companies, some from larger companies.
I have a rad wagon cargo bike and I have used it to haul thousands of pounds of cargo in the last year. It costs pennies a day to operate and I don’t need a licence or insurance to operate it on the road. Who could ask for more?
Hmmm, fun fact, it was raining before E-bikes. Even more fun fact, there was wind blowing. Against rain I use my Gore-Tex raingear same as before. Against the wind I bump my pedal-assist up by a bit as needed. Progress ;-)
I believe these sort of short delivery type systems the carrier on the back needs to be larger and lockable. Carry more supplies as I can see this being very limited for space or what it can actually deliver and also allowing the speed to be increased would be more benificial
1. Please stop limiting e bikes to 15mph assisted. Just let them go as fast as they need to. If you can keep a good speed up it doesn't cause issue with other road users. 2. Imagine hours in the pissing rain riding this. That would not be a fun day!
Don't tell people in UA-cam comments, Tell your local council/politicians. They are the ones who made the limit on eBikes, not the eBike manufacturers.
I'm disabled, but before I got ill I used to cycle around SE London quite a lot. I could hit 30mph on my road bike without too much trouble, and frankly it was safer to keep up with the traffic than constantly being overtaken.
The motor assist cuts out at 15 m.p.h (ish) but if you can peddle quicker it will go faster, but I agree the 15 m.p.h limit is stupid for riding on the road.
@@kaminutter that’s true, but their weight, combined with how some motors drag when not being powered, makes it much harder to maintain any speeds that non electric bikes can easily attain and maintain. I don’t think 20-25 MPH would be an unreasonable limit for the assist to end at, without getting into the legal complications of mopeds and insurance etc.
250watts is the legal limit for motors on e-bikes. For hilly cities and windy weather, how limiting is this power output for the viability of cargo bikes in such environments? I imagine that if you’re carrying a heavy load, then 250 watts might now be enough muscle for some of the steeper streets.
I always wondered why they don't allow more powerful motors on the condition that they cut out at the legal limit of 15mph. So you could go 15mph up a hill, or with cargo, or for more miles. The fact that he's just said that it cuts out at 16 or 17mph and goes quite fast even with cargo suggests that the motor is over the legal 250w limit though?
I like how she refers to Barnes in South West London as 'the village' like she lives in the middle of nowhere. You literally have central London about 10 minutes away by tube.
Some bigger pizza delivery companies in Hamburg are using ebikes for delivery a lot over the past year. Would be interesting to know what kind of bikes they actually use 🤔
Buying online kills so many jobs, and will eventually lead to almost no shops at all. I hate shopping online or offline, but I do see the usefulness of a real shop.
Much as I love them, I can't help but feel that the London Cycling Campaign is mistaking people cycling recreationally during lockdown with people willing to cycle to the shops/work/school. There's such a difference between going out for a pootle because the weather's nice and there's nothing else to do and cycling to get somewhere you need to be.
4K seems alot for a regular e-bike with beefy panniers. Not sure any local deliveries will need 200kg loads or use the sort of riders that can confidently pilot that sort of vehicle through town traffic. Maybe a £1.5k bike and a trailer will do the job just as well and not put off uptake as a result on the high entrance costs? The concept is brilliant and more town centres need motor vehicle restrictions in place going forward.
It is irrelevant of course, but I really like that blue/white striped shirt. I am sorry to mention such a triviality but it just appeals a lot- I want one like that! The bikes look like excellent sense - probably costly but no problem for a business that's working in a busy urban area.
@@astranger448 Well that's ultimately part of the issue, local often doesn't mean local it means offshore manufacturing with a label stuck on it. It still doesn't change the affordability aspect either way to be honest.
Butcher and grocer delivery boys up until the 1940's when pushbike home deliveries fell out of use in favour of motorised transport, would have dearly loved one of those.
I think the use case for this is very limited, except for very small specialist items like medical supplies, and take-away food, from a local outlet. A weekly shop for a typical family would be a full load in that trailer and very heavy, so only one delivery per trip. Much better is to develop small electric delivery vans. Actually, we already have those!
There was a slightly contradictory bit where the guy from Ginger talks about people ordering online and then says how much people like going to the High Street. If the business model allows people to shop locally and then have their shopping delivered later in the day it could massively reduce inefficient short car journeys to the local shops that people do because they don't want to carry their shopping home.
If you want to promote cycling you have to make the road more safe for cyclists. The cycling country in Europe is of course Nederland. City planners should go to Nederland and see how to make cycling a more efficient way of getting to places than a car.
Unfortunately the presenter seems unaware that in times gone by all grocery shops had a delivery boy who used a cargo bike. It's only the 'e' that is new. I'm sure that Bobby remembers.
Nope, a few times she used 'again' she just wasn't very explicit about it. I think the more explicit references probably got edited out, for fear of coming across as a luddite.
As a time-served ebiker; I think this is great is a flat are but in many places it will be thwarted by the 250W legal assis limit, I believe there is a valid case for more power (with the same speed limit) for cargo bikes compared to a 'normal ebike'.
I think the limit is to do with driver expectation of normal cyclist speed, which basically means, see cyclist but not look and watch cyclist and judge oncoming speed. These assumptions cause accidents.
@@melodysouljahrootsdubpress5539 I agree, that is why I say 'the same speed', the purpose of more power would be to offer more torque for hills, without this cargo ebikes will never catch on in areas with hills
Over here 250Watt/25kmh is treated like a regular bicycle. Faster or more powerful is treated like a moped (42kmh motorcycle) with registration, insurance and whatever local law requires. Makes sense for the professional delivery biker to conform to the available local laws for a higher power/speed cargo bike.
I wonder how long it will be before the drivers are not required. It's not a bad job but it does seem to be work that does not need to be done by a person. A small electric van the size of a wheely bin could zip around town and be loaded up where required and drive itself to a destination where the customer unlocks it with a pin code. Roll on the 3 day week for all!
Have you any info on how this Delivery system works, and how much it costs ? I live in Rural Somerset, and a set-up like this could help both local Shops AND their Customers who live outside our local 'main' Village, so what are the Charges & Costs involved for participating Shops and Customers ?
Seams like uk is a bit behind the times. Large cities, like New York, have been using bike transport for years. Go to Mexico and see the smaller rural towns and they are everywhere, both assisted and human powered, used as taxis, food delivery and everything else under the sun. Good to see a push there but this is not really “new”. Then if your there to give shop owners a thought to market their products, big thumbs up!
More technical info would be good. KWh Battery, KW motor, Range, How much help on hills. Recharge time. Cost, Running costs. etc I would love to see some bike sharing schemes in towns and villages. Several shops leasing and sharing bikes together. That has got to be the future.
Plenty of brands out nowadays, some even cheap(ish). Running costs are low, the kind of low I don't bother keeping track. Range depends on the size(price) of the battery, the load and the hillyness of the terrain you must deal with. Motor power is a legal thing. Most countries consider a 250Watt, limited to 25kmh e-bike a regular bicycle. More power and/or speed is treated similar to a moped, requiring license, helmet, insurance or whatever your local law can come up with. For a flatland cargo bike for 2 kids and groceries 250Watt does the trick, if you need hauling washing machines up the Mont Blanc not so much
Is this the modern version of Granville’s bike from Open All Hours, except with pedal assist. Perhaps a switch version of an old Victorian shop bike would be useful.
Talk to the Boring company. There are no limits on how many highways you can build down. I know London has a lot of infrastructure under the ground but I'm sure you could fit narrow tunnels under existing roads providing all weather safe routes through the most congested routes.
Those ebikes are massively overpriced. Yes, it costs more to build a sturdy bike for cargo than a "normal" bike, but not significantly so. I built a Dahon folding bike into an ebike for my wife, and it cost me less than £500 total (I got the Dahon for £200 barely used, but even if I'd paid full price I'd still be around £1k). With a 24v, 14.5ah battery (348wh). Ebike manufacturers are taking the mick - there's no way they should be charging these prices. We're being ripped off for trying to be responsible.
"We're being ripped off for trying to be responsible." OF COURSE WE ARE. This is part of the ponzi scheme aka economy. Why do you think the main point in the global agenda is "the change"... because there's money to be squeezed out of the pigs... I mean consumers. Not only do the "green" products cost more, they drag the market up, making things that aren't green also more expensive to buy (whilst costing less and less to produce). Give consumers negative interest rates so that they have to spend money otherwise they lose each month and you have a perpetuum mobile.
@@louisyoko2723 The only way I know to fight back (other than building my own "green" things and saving a small fortune) is to spread information about the subject, in hopes people make more informed choices. Not that it matters at this point, so perhaps I'm an idiot for even trying to raise any kind of awareness.
Ah yes, they have them built by the million in China for cheap. Wish it was, but most of these outfits are fairly small and paying a specialist workforce right here in the UK, the US or the EU.
@@astranger448 Not being funny, but if I can build a bike for under £1000, starting with a decent bike like a Dahon, then so can a specialist workforce here in the UK, the US or the EU. In fact, they should have (albiet fairly small) economies of scale that I don't have, and therefore their costs should be lower than mine. Besides, the likes of Raleigh are also ripping us off, with £1500 ebikes based on £250 bike frames. The same goes for electric cars such as the ID.3 - it's more than £15,000 more expensive than the equivalent golf, but I can put together the same battery pack for around £10,000. WV has to be paying significantly less than me for batteries, and since every part of an EV is the same cost or less than an ICE apart from the battery - why the £15,000 premium when they must be paying £5,000 or less for the battery? We're being green-taxed far, far too much while the planet is dying - we should be being incentivised, not ripped off.
@@antontaylor4530 Building to produce in, specialized equipment, R&D, advertising budget, production staff, non-production staff, aftersales, warehousing, a delivery van, some-one who answers the phone when your bike breaks, some-one who repairs your bike when it breaks, warranty, spare parts supply for existing and past models.... No idea how your company works but the one I work for (not at all bike related, power tools) has all of these.
Why revive the high street? There is a reason the high street is dying. Its because they are overrun with poor quality, expensive chain stores. Its so rare to find a truly unique high street in the UK. Lets face it they will never compete with the like of online retailers. Why not adapt? I personally think street food is the key. Provide a service that cannot be be done online. Good quality, diverse street food with support from the government to use outdoor public space for seating is the key!
The big issue for high streets is also parking which is really what started the decline, before this year people would happily drive an hour to a massive shopping center because they had a reasonable certainty they would be able to park and then have access to many of the things you mentioned e.g. food and areas to relax and socialise. Funnily enough a lot of issues lie at the feet of local councils who often see motorists as an easy target for taxation via parking charges and high street businesses are also an easy target for rents and rates.
One of the issues with cycling of any kind is the UK weather. If your using an e-bike as a primary means of transport especially commuting to work or moving goods about you can bet people are going to jump in there cars during very cold or wet days and then their is the dark nights from October.
What puts me off is what do you do with the thing while you are in the shop, bearing in mind the tern bikes here start at 3K, you need an arsenal of locks and chains to lock it up, then you have to carry the stuff you are going to fill it with, likey I would just walk to the shops with a backpack or take the car. its long way from being carefree whipping about the shops, its a right hassle.
@@1001ewaste You mean labour cost? You're less prone to traffic jams, parking space shortages, you may use bike lanes or bike-only roads, you can often ride against the direction of one-way roads. If you have longer distances, use the faster 45 km/h S-Pedelec version of your cargo bike. This may be individual for your business and YMMV, but I doubt a cargo bike is generally slower and will therefore produce more labour cost.
@@lietzium It's not about how fast a bike vs a van is to be honest, a van can transport far more cargo so as mentioned elsewhere fewer dead legs to return to collect more cargo. If you've worked in a logistics business you'll appreciate the main challenge is volume rather than weight, that's why the Merc Sprinter XLWB is pretty much the default option for many businesses, a cargo bike eventually evolves into a trike and then a small electric 'van'. Alternatives to the traditional 'van' do have their place in highly urbanised or pedestrianised areas but it's pretty niche compared to the hype train many board at the first opportunity. The irony I see is that UberEats, and other 'innovative' black holes of venture capital, make it work through a combination of relatively high value luxury goods being transported and modern slavery / wage labour / gig economy exploitation. (Might be a bit 'overdramatic')
LIKE if you think E-Cargo Bikes could catch on & SHARE if you think smaller, cleaner vehicles are the future.
Helen heads to the London village of Barnes to find out how local independent shops are partnering with Ginger Town to use Tern e-cargo bikes for local deliveries. As more and more villages, towns and cities look for ways to reduce the number of vehicles on their streets, could the E-Cargo Bike offer the perfect solution to small scale cargo transport? These electro assist bikes might be small and nimble, but can also hold a fair amount of delivery stock and could be part of the answer to making high street shops more accessible.
Ginger Town - www.ginger.town/
Tern Bikes - www.ternbicycles.com/uk/
London Cycling Campaign - www.lcc.org.uk/
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*Timestamps*
0:00 welcome to Barnes
0:27 are e-cargo bikes the future for deliveries?
1:11 digital high streets
1:44 bringing the high street to your door
2:09 Ginger Town partnership
2:21 what is an e-cargo bike?
3:31 Tern GSD e-cargo bike
3:55 big panniers
4:42 on your bike!
5:12 delivery costs
5:47 reviving the high street?
6:43 transport space sharing
8:17 quick, efficient & emission free deliveries
8:39 e-bike friction?
10:05 shared transport to save on costs
11:05 more people want to cycle
12:24 smaller, cleaner vehicles needed
12:58 last mile delivery solution
13:49 more e-cargo bikes!!
"SHARE if you think smaller, cleaner vehicles are the future"
I currently have a small car, in a small parking space - too small for a Leaf. Yes, I want a electric car... but I do still need a reasonable range, of about 250Km with half of that at highways speed. This is a requirement that the car makers have not managed to meet yet.
I've been riding my 'SUV' eBike for 2 years. Great to see you covering this fantastic EV sector.
@@John.0z Your comment caught my eye because I've just returned from a 257 km round trip with about 60% of that on highways. The battery wasn't full when I left.
The car is a Tesla Model 3, so not a small car, but a journey of this distance is inconsequential, the car has a range of between 460 and 480 km. A similar range can be achieved in the Hyundai Kona, the Kia e-Niro and numerous other cars coming to market in the next year. With current battery technology a very small car with 250 km plus range is a big challenge, however it is obvious this will be solved in the next 5 years.
@@fullychargedshow no subtitles, as a hearing impaired, can't understand what's going on :(
They are not only the future, they are the now! We have two ebikes at our house. One for my 32km commute and another cargo bike for hauling the kids and getting groceries. And there are loads of people delivering everyting from pizzas to packages on ebikes here in Seattle already. Now I just need a electric replacement for my Honda Oddesey and I'll be 100% electric.
IT's amussing, and a bit sad, that there is even a discussion about how much space the cargo bikes are taking up. When was the last time a car reviewer gave a toss about how much space a Land Rover takes up?
I think it was perhaps an intentionally leading question to highlight how little space it uses, in comparison to vans and lorries, but yes, perhaps they should have emphasized that comparison a bit more :)
I drive my cargo bike with a lil safety flag on the rear to indicate that I am a bit longer than what everybody is used to. Even more important when pulling a cart or when driving a fast e-bike. Everybody can estimate size and speed of a regular bike, we all grew up on a bicycle. Larger and especially faster e-bikes are different, many a road user risks being wrongfooted and not allow enough space for these bikes.
You are light-years ahead of us in USA. The best-selling vehicles here are trucks that weigh 2000kg, minimum. Our govt continues to subsidize gasoline and asphalt, and requires businesses to build parking to accomodate them.
@@meloapa Ah don't worry. I'm from Europe and I drive a US made cargo bike, a Yuba Mundo. It is a bit heavy and overbuilt but totally fit for purpose ;-)
@@astranger448 as with motorcycles most accidents happen because people miss judge closing speed and pull out in front causing an accident. You always have to expect the other user has not judged your speed right. One glance = not a chance, 2 glances possibly seen you, one glance followed by a good look at you should mean you are safe... unless the driver is a total knob which is very common unfortunately.
We live in Melbourne Aus and just got this bike, with space for 6 yo and 3yo plus shopping, we don’t use our ICE car much anymore. Love it.
Let’s be honest, if you’re in Melbourne, you can’t use your car now 😉
@@aussie2uGA lols. Brilliant!
Fully charged is such a fun show. I was not even THAT into electric cars, but the objective, knowledgeable and passionate content is exciting! I am impressed by the breadth of the presenters, in their acumen and background, and the high-quality overall presentation. Good job guys!
for a fun note on the "cast" we have an oceanographer/physicist (Helen in this vid!), classic auto journalist, an educational content pro,, a CAVE DIVER redbull-y guy, and an expert on EV industry. robert did well here
what a terrible piece of film and journslism
I wish I’d had one of these 59years ago when delivering for a local grocery shop. I used somethings similar small front wheel large basket over it and NO motor, god it was hard work for 2shilling and six pence a day.
So you worked for the equivalent in today's money of £2.5/day?
Me too - froze in winter, baked in summer, drowned in between!
I bet you were super fit though and had an amazing immune system, slept well every night! impressive!
Colin Munro
# ditto (I was a butcher’s delivery boy)
Reggie Buffat
# 2 shillings and 6 pence = £0.125
# The average price of a house (UK) in 1961 was £2,530
hamshackleton
# Makes us wonder why we ever worked for a living!
Kingsoupturbo
# Nothing has really changed in the last six million years
Colin Munro
# ditto (I was a butcher’s delivery boy)
Reggie Buffat
# 2 shillings and 6 pence = £0.125
# The average price of a house (UK) in 1961 was £2,530
hamshackleton
# Makes us wonder why we ever worked for a living!
Kingsoupturbo
# Nothing has really changed in the last six million years
I love these. I have a non-e cargo bike and it has replaced my car for everything I do. I can see these being popular for a while and if it means that councils start to build proper cycling infrastructure to support them and free up space in our towns from cars and vans then all power to them.
We've had these kind of bikes for a while in the Netherlands, mainly use for city centres. Works very good!
Yes and the ability to use them safely on the dedicated cycle lanes that the UK seem to have problems creating.
Everywhere should have lanes for heavy vehicles including cars, cycles of all types including e-scooters, and lanes for pedestrians but we have old structures and no space to do a proper job of it.
Yep, Cool Blue has many of these kind of bikes
It seemed rather sad not to mention the Netherlands has been doing this for decades, very successfully.
Sounds great for built-up areas, but I live 5 miles (about 8K) from the nearest shop. Any suggestions when I run out of bread or milk?
@@lisahughes5319 You'd probably be best sticking with an electric car but there are other options coming out all the time.
I do our whole weekly shop by cargo bike (well, trailer). The trailer takes just about the same amount as a deep shopping trolley so that works fine. It's just about 2 miles to Tesco. Have been doing this for more than a decade now. It was the last thing we were still using the car for short journeys for, but driving less than a mile to the supermarket was kind of embarassing, so I made a trailer.
Back to the future... A return to the Greengrocers delivery bikes of the 50's and 60's
You've just made me think of Open All Hours - Granville on his bike :-)
Sometimes things were just better "back when I were a lad". For example - milk bottles. If all our liquid products came in re-usable containers (not necessarily glass ones, some plastic ones could be re-used) then we could all return our bottles for washing, sterilisation and re-use when we go back to the supermarket.
Imagine generic bottles of differing sizes, from 200ml up to 2.27l, used for every consumable liquid - from cola to milk to bottled water. Bio-degradable (perhaps PLA) labels being the only custom thing on them. Nothing going into landfill or oceans.
It worked for decades, why can we not go back to that system?
In theory, all our products could come in such generic, re-usable containers. With a little thought in the design stage, they could even stack inside each other, making returning the packaging vastly easier. It may even end up cheaper than disposable packaging, once everything is running along full chat.
I have been for the past year, Sainsbury’s is the most common store.
@@antontaylor4530 we get our milk delivered in glass bottles,( east london) the dairy just about survived and now is getting lots of new customers, there was some talk about unilever (who own dozens of consumer brands) doing standardised bottles and contianers for refilling, but yet to see if it would come to anything other than PR fluff
@@antontaylor4530 And with deliveries on such e-cargo bikes, we can improve their productivity by having them return the empties.
I doubt though it will ever revert to the past. I think it might be more likely that we use some elements of the past (like reusable containers) but have them returned to a reusable container station where these things are cleaned, sterilised to approved standards.
You could do so many videos on e-cargo bikes. Just like how you review individual car models. I think EAV would be a great company to feature. Their 4 wheel bike-van is really cool.
The way to go, back in 1960, me and Duxsy Jackson dashed home off the school bus, got changed and off to Hinton's Supermarket in Loftus town square and delivered groceries on old single speed butcher bikes and was it hilly! Great time and managed to save enough for my first brand new Dawes racer just after 13th birthday!
If you want to do more episodes on electric last mile delivery of food (which I would gladly watch), an interesting case could be PicNic in the Netherlands. They essentially cut out the physical grocery store, and drive groceries ordered with an app directly to you door (outside corona even in your kitchen) in small electric vehicles. This way they waste much less food, and because of the lack of physical stores they can have comparable prices with other Dutch supermarkets.
Its not a case of better infastructure, we just need infastructure. I live in southwest london and 99% of the roads do not have cycle lanes and those that do are worn out dotted lines that force you into the gutter.
You should see it outside of London, not a hope.
Where are these cycle lanes going to fit, are you going to demolish houses to accommodate cycle lanes or dig up pavements, you certainly cant ban cars as not everyone can ride a bike.
@@stevehayward1854 Actually i see no issue with restricting the number of cars on the road and taking back some of the space they use. Most journeys are made by one person of distances under 2 miles, the overwhelming majority could ride a bike and those that cant could find another route. Cycle lanes are far more efficient uses of space than roads, you can fit 10 bikes in the space of 1 car. Cars dont sit at the top of some imaginary heirarchy, we should be making choices that are best for our health and the planet.
@@stevehayward1854 Maybe the government should do something about all the free car storage it gives to motorists. I see a lot of comments from certain motorists saying no room for bikes on the road, but most road I see have two lines of cars parked down them, often on the pavement too. The roads and pavements were built for moving things, not storing things.
@@stevehayward1854 It's not really about cycle lanes. Streets must not be planned with cars as the premier user always and everywhere.
If we do that then it will be found that some places will be good for cars and they can be encouraged and some will be bad and they will be discouraged, same for every other transport type. But the idea that a particular street would preference bikes (or buses, or pedestrians or cargo ebikes) over cars is a foreign idea almost everywhere in the world.
Well done production Fully Charged. Dr. Czerski hosting a presentation on ideas & potential solutions is what content I look forward to with these episodes she tends to host. Consideration with the use of e-cargo bicycles is appreciated & a topic my local Sierra Club chapter has been touting.
I remember when as a child I had a round where I had to use a heavy butchers bike with a huge cage and frame and basket on the front and back. The delivery round was all uphill and no one wanted to take it. It was known as the worst delivery round on the books. The Bike as so heavy that when you got to the bottom of the hill you had to get off and push. The ride back was fantastic as it was all down hill. At least it made me fit and from there on I took up cycling which I continued till I became disabled. I still have a hand built Mecian bike, sadly doing nothing.
Whatever works, but let’s make sure the bike riders get decent pay and conditions rather than being ‘gig-economy’ slave labour...
From my distant, Canadian perspective, the UK seems so very well suited for ideas like this. From having centralized high streets in compact (relatively) small villages, to your more favourable seasonal weather. Using E-Cargo bikes seems like an obvious way forward. I love it.
Right, the UK is renowned for its sunny weather.
@@Gian092 Not for its sunny weather in particular, but very mild weather relative to most parts of the world- especially Canada, where Erin Wiebe is from! Extremely cold winters and hot winters are the norm for much of/all of Canada. Putting a few extra layers on and a waterproof is generally all you need to cope with bad weather in Britain.
Would have been nice to hear from the guy that was actually riding the bike.
Agreed. I was waiting for that segment.
They have GOT to be part of the future now. They are just too good. I use mine for nearly everything. They are fantastic. And for carrying kids!
I’ve been using my Rad-runner cargo bike for deliveries 📦 it’s been very good for getting around the city.(bought in sept19 for 1200euros)
Been pedaling a regular cargo bike for like 10 years now (Yuba Mundo). With my knees not becoming any better I converted it for electric operation with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit. Readily available, great range of power and speed options, reasonable price and they sell an optional tool kit with everything needed for the conversion. Maybe do a review of those kits?
Kits are a good idea for some circumstances, but my cargo bike is designed to take 136kg (or two people) and very robust, I looked at kits before but couldn’t find any bike built well enough.
@@IDann1 Wheel kits are problematic for cargo bikes, you want reinforced wheels. Mid drive kits fit in/in front of the crankshaft housing so you keep the regular wheels. Sturdy enough for mine which is rated for 200kg ;-)
@@astranger448 There are many different solutions for cargo bikes, i’m very happy with my rad runner, although I wish I had the original 750W motor,One thing I would never ride again is a front wheel drive... I had my fathers old front wheel drive ebike, I found it extremely dangerous as it was slip the front wheel, I ended up twisting my back as I fell off... that said, had to change around the front and back brakes on my Rad power bike, as for some strange reason American spec bikes put the brakes round the wrong way... and this was extremely dangerous as I first went down a road and hit gravel😆
@@IDann1 Looked into a Rad myself, there is a dealer network in Europe now. But since my Yuba had a lot more life in it I rebuilt it with a mid drive kit. Not overly difficult if you are kinda handy.
@@IDann1 we just bought a RadRunner. Absolutely love it. You must try the EggRider v2 display upgrade. It unlocks extra power from the controller unit which really helps on hill climbing.
If this is the future of small transport, I LOVE IT !!!
Good work ma’am, pls keep making such videos. It inspires us all especially to those who have already started to walk the path. Thanks a lot.
More cargo bikes for short distance deliveries would be brilliant, and some cargo bikes have tons of storage, and large trailers can be used.
We have a Rad Power RadRunner utility/cargo bike bought from their EU website. Absolutely love it! Have added racks and baskets and a rear passenger seat. It can climb hills despite its weight and handicapped motor controller. All in, the price was £1400 which we think is good value compared to similar bikes on the market.
I just got the HSD compact E-Cargo and really happy to give up my car 👍😀
This is not typical cargo bike. You should test a long-john with a front box - eg. Urban Arrow used by PedalMe in London. That would be more representative and I would love to see such video!
Helen Cresskill is Phenomenal. I like the intensity she brings to the interview
As a cyclist I'm really happy for there to be more cargo bikes, I'll take being stuck behind one of them any day over a smelly van.
As a kid I remember the butchers boy doing deliveries like this and now is the time to get back to this style of deliveries, ultra low carbon and fitter staff = win:win !
And will accept the butcher boys to be paid as much were the boys in the past?
In small communities like that, maybe. But in cities, automatic deliveries is the real solution. But for this the access ways needs to be built properly. I am curios which city will do this first.
A lot less expense than a van, fuel, tax, road insurance maintenance and so it goes on. Bike & boy = less expensive = less cost to,customer = win:win
Very informative. Thanks Doc! Dobre.
Our town centre is already buzzing with people on home made and very quick ebikes doing fast food deliveries
I find the use of the Tern bikes great I ride a Vectron folding bike by them in Vancouver Canada, great innovative producer
Really nice initiative. Local retail is changing fast, and its combined strategies like this that are the way forward. Great Story Full Charged.
When I was a lad the local shops delivered,the butcher on his bike and the small super market in his van.
E bikes could be a good idea for local shops.
Excellent episode. Look out Llewellyn!
For moving large numbers of people around a densely-populated urban area, the automobile - however powered or piloted - is objectively the _worst_ tool for the job. That's not a matter of politics or personal preference, it's a matter of geometry, arithmetic and physics.
The more of our roadways we can dedicate to _everything else_ - bicycles and other personal-sized vehicles of all sorts, mass transit, larger walkways, literally anything but cars - the more efficiently and pleasantly we'll be able to move ourselves and our stuff about. And that goes as well for those applications for which the car _is_ the tool for the job, because the space that remains dedicated to that mode will be far less crowded when more efficient options are available for everything else.
Holland uses Caro-bikes a lot, but not so many car, vans, lorries in their cities. It will be good to see in our towns.
She seems like the nicest person ever 💕💕 oh yea and the bikes seem great 😉
Great video and lots of interesting views.
You really should have been talking to the actual delivery bike riders to get their practical experience of what works and what doesn't and the various different pro's and con's.
Also, even though the Tern featured is a very impressive bike on it's own that costs £4,000+ without accessories, you can buy a variety of trailers similar to the one attached to it from between £100-£300.
And quite literally, a trailer turns any bike, e or otherwise into a cargo bike and a real world practical alternative to a car.
I currently have two. A large sized dog trailer which is ideal because it's bigger than most normal Cargo trailers and is completely covered and self contained so nothing will fall out. Just load your large reusable shopping bags into it as you would into the boot of your car. Zip it up and go.
I've had up to 70kg in it but average 30-50kg.
And an actual cargo trailer I can carry a full sized lawnmower on or fit 60x80cm euro containers on.
They cost £110 and £95 each respectively. You don't have to spend big money.
I'm currently using a manual pedal power only hybrid bike but I do intend to go "e" this year with a similar type all purpose workhorse to go further and carry/pull more.
I learned something here today!
Never heard of, or seen an e cargo bike .........!
there are loads of them around London now, it does make sense for small shops (our local wine shop uses one for deliveries) and increasingly people are using them to ferry kids to school. ..
Where have you been in the last 5 years, living under a rock?
I’ve been running around the city for the past year, every day someone asked about my bike,
@@IDann1 Familiar experience ;-)
I'd like to see the emergence of hubs that are much more local than the regional UPS, DPD, DHL distribution centres. These hubs can act as the delivery destination for all those ICE vehicles. Electric vans then take over the last mile and E-Cargo bikes would fit into this model well, carrying the tons of smaller packages that don't need a large van. I love EVs but the answer to sustainable transport in a more pleasant environment isn't just EVs, it's fewer large vehicles.
That was amusing! I lived in Barnes for 10 years, through the 80s into the early 90s. There are lots of cycle paths, official and un-official through the area. Although I never had a bike there, I had friends who did, and I used to walk a lot, and knew all the back doubles. I had an office in one of the buildings overlooking the pond - in fact you can just see it behind Helen in one of her pieces to camera - and there were a couple of delis in the area that used bikes to deliver sandwich orders. Lots of small business and shops used that service. E-bikes would have been an advantage.
BTW, some of the continuity was abysmal! The editor had obviously not consulted a map!
Yeah, wish these had been around when I had my grocery boy delivery job after school back in the 70s. Taking a big box of fruit and veg up them welsh hills on a single speed that already weighed over 25kg was not fun (nor were the rod actuated brakes on the way down!!). I'm not sure the model of a delivery service for shops will work, but a 'Boris Bike' type hire as you go to be shared by the local shops may be? Great to see traditional methods revived with a modern slant.
I delivered milk in the 60s on a bike carrying 6 crates 1 wheel at back 2 to the front a fixed wheel set up I had to stand to make it move and the hotdog sellers in the big cities had them must have been good for me still cycling
in the US the radpowerbike Rad Wagon has a throttle and its all over, a really sweet alternative to small vans. I have an electric bike its changed me.
I’ve had the Rad runner for the past year doing deliveries in the uk 🇬🇧, but unfortunately we are restricted to 250watts 15mph motor,and no throttle,(EU law 🤪)
This was totally thralling to watch. I hope we see the changes to Carboniferous in all of our cities soon, asap.
Back to the days of delivery boys on their Butchers and Bakers delivery bikes? Just a bit quicker.
Here, here. I'm from Austin TX (USA), and there's a city proposition ("Prop B") this election cycle that would build out miles of protected bike lanes. Hope it passes.
More bikes scooters ect please great content
You should definitely check out Ono Motion in one of your videos. They create cargo e-bikes with interchangeable cargo units on the back in Berlin.
I think ultimately we just need to remove cars from a lot of our town centres. The issue is that then it's easier to just drive to an out of town shopping centre with parking. A difficult balance to strike.
It's all about the infrastruture. But right now the political will is a token effort so they seem to be doing something. The rate of change is pitiful. But with Gorverments that would ok projects like HS2; right now we don't stand a chance. Which is a crying shame!
Yep infrastructure, but efficiency too. And even it seems cleaner and nicer, it needs a person to drive it. This is expensive. So the delivery must be automatic. Drones and self driving carts rise other issues, so a different approach may be a good solution. Transport by pipe. So for delivering an cheap item like water or gas we installed pipes and was cost effective. And it may be not metal pipes but concrete. or a combination of access with the other pipes like a tunnel. We see all the time diggings for new pipes or fixing the broken ones or new cables so on. So why not make infrastructure for long term, under sidewalks tunnels to host all the pipes required, and enough space to replace them when required, so no need to dig the streets again. These tunnels may host the tracks for automatic carts too. Of course some initial investment, but a lot of future savings. And no riding in the rain...
HS2 is badly needed, it will free of masses of capacity on existing networks for freight and local services, by moving inter-city fast trains off those massively congested tracks. What is a shame is that the negativity around HS2 has pressured the planners to find savings, cutting good ideas like turning parallel access roads used during development into bike lanes once the line is complete.
Rail and cycling should go hand in hand. You can't build a station within walking distance of everyone's house, and you can't build park and ride facilities for cars that are big enough to satisfy demand. But look at The Netherlands, with their huge parking facilities for thousands of bikes at rail stations. That's what we ought to be doing. Let's have HS2, HS3, *and* massively improved cycling infrastructure! It doesn't have to be either / or.
There needs to be a complete rethink about EBikes on our roads. The 15mph limit is too slow as the speed limit is generally 20 to 30mph in cities. My solution would be to increase the EBike speed to 25mph and to reduce all city car speed to 20 to 25mph. Then the cyclist can be in the safe part of the road rather than in the gutter. This way we don’t need to build as many cycle lanes. Let’s just try to get people to agree to allow us to take central stage on the roads. Slower cars = good and safer. Faster EBikes = good and still safe.
In Scotland they are rolling out 20mph in all cities, Edinburgh already there.
I don't think you are supposed to be on roads with speed limits of 30mph or higher with a bicycle, in the Netherlands there would be a bicycle path next to it (a separate path, not a gutter solution), on 20mph or lower roads it should be no problem to intermingle bicycles with cars.
question: if a bicycle hit or get hit by a car, who is responsible in your country? Here the car would be at fault most of the time unless you have proof it was totally the bicycles fault (like car standing still and bicycle hits car)
if you build more separate bicycle paths, more people would get out a car and on a bicycle, making the roads better for car users that have no other option.
if you want the ebike to be faster like 20-30mph assisted, it basically becomes a High Speed Ebike/Pedelec which most likely have the same rules as a moped/scooter in the UK ?
@@DarkDutch007 Same laws in Belgium and all of a sudden motorists started paying attention.
@@DarkDutch007 thank you for that information very interesting and you bring up good points. My thought about raising the EBike speed limit and slowing cars down comes from my own experience of riding a motorcycle and a fast EBike where I feel safer in the middle of the road riding with the traffic rather being overtaken by it. The damage to pedestrians and cyclists alike is greatly reduced by slowing down the average speed of cars in urban settings. This is why we see more 20mph speed limits now in the U.K. especially around schools. It is not practical to build cycle paths in many areas and as such is generally only half a solution. The task of encouraging people out of their cars and onto bikes is not easy for sure and needs radical ideas to be considered in addition to just building cycle paths. IMHO.
Electric bikes and cargo vehicles are a way of saving our shopping streets, go out do your shopping, have something to eat, go for a walk, then return home for your pre-arranged delivery. It kind of happens now but not to the extent it should be.
In my local area we have a number of deliveries by bike, in some cases e-bike. Flowers, coffee beans, bread and pastries, pasta and beer are all delivered locally, some from local companies, some from larger companies.
I have a rad wagon cargo bike and I have used it to haul thousands of pounds of cargo in the last year. It costs pennies a day to operate and I don’t need a licence or insurance to operate it on the road. Who could ask for more?
On a day that is not raining?
In the UK?
I agree they need to find a solution that has a cover or something because often it’s going to need to be used in inclement weather
@@TristenHernandez Something that has cover Hmm maybe they could add a roof and call it a 'van' they'd be massively successful.
@@1001ewaste You have the best ideas, they should hire someone like you for their electric bike business 👍
Hmmm, fun fact, it was raining before E-bikes. Even more fun fact, there was wind blowing. Against rain I use my Gore-Tex raingear same as before. Against the wind I bump my pedal-assist up by a bit as needed. Progress ;-)
Have been using a LvH Bullitt cargobike since 2012 and among all the benefits, is the ample parking just outside of the shops, the free parking mind
I think the Last mile deliveries will be done with bikes, and vehicles as paxter and Arcimoto deliverator
India need e cargo bike
they'd fall straight into the massive potholes..
With massive large wheel, no more pothole problems
India needs basic sanitation.
India isn't developed enough
Fighting over small things, seriously?
Also im indian
I believe these sort of short delivery type systems the carrier on the back needs to be larger and lockable. Carry more supplies as I can see this being very limited for space or what it can actually deliver and also allowing the speed to be increased would be more benificial
Ideal for Australia market. For delivery of goods. An only AU$6500.00 in Australia.
1. Please stop limiting e bikes to 15mph assisted. Just let them go as fast as they need to. If you can keep a good speed up it doesn't cause issue with other road users.
2. Imagine hours in the pissing rain riding this. That would not be a fun day!
Don't tell people in UA-cam comments, Tell your local council/politicians.
They are the ones who made the limit on eBikes, not the eBike manufacturers.
I'm disabled, but before I got ill I used to cycle around SE London quite a lot. I could hit 30mph on my road bike without too much trouble, and frankly it was safer to keep up with the traffic than constantly being overtaken.
The motor assist cuts out at 15 m.p.h (ish) but if you can peddle quicker it will go faster, but I agree the 15 m.p.h limit is stupid for riding on the road.
@@kaminutter It's alot harder cycling a heavier bike quicker once the motor cuts out.
@@kaminutter that’s true, but their weight, combined with how some motors drag when not being powered, makes it much harder to maintain any speeds that non electric bikes can easily attain and maintain. I don’t think 20-25 MPH would be an unreasonable limit for the assist to end at, without getting into the legal complications of mopeds and insurance etc.
250watts is the legal limit for motors on e-bikes. For hilly cities and windy weather, how limiting is this power output for the viability of cargo bikes in such environments? I imagine that if you’re carrying a heavy load, then 250 watts might now be enough muscle for some of the steeper streets.
E-bikes are a great alternative to vans and cars. It's low hanging fruit with a really low point of entry. :-)
I always wondered why they don't allow more powerful motors on the condition that they cut out at the legal limit of 15mph. So you could go 15mph up a hill, or with cargo, or for more miles. The fact that he's just said that it cuts out at 16 or 17mph and goes quite fast even with cargo suggests that the motor is over the legal 250w limit though?
I like how she refers to Barnes in South West London as 'the village' like she lives in the middle of nowhere. You literally have central London about 10 minutes away by tube.
Nearest tube is Richmond, Putney or Hammersmith (if the bridge is open). All about 3 miles away. But it does have good bus connections.
What trailers are they using? 🤔
Thanks a lot for this video. And the lady is so beautiful. I'll buy the the gear for my bike. Thanks a lot.
Some bigger pizza delivery companies in Hamburg are using ebikes for delivery a lot over the past year. Would be interesting to know what kind of bikes they actually use 🤔
It looks like the gentleman with the dreads could use a taller saddle. He’s swinging his knees out in a way that looks a bit injurious.
Buying online kills so many jobs, and will eventually lead to almost no shops at all. I hate shopping online or offline, but I do see the usefulness of a real shop.
Much as I love them, I can't help but feel that the London Cycling Campaign is mistaking people cycling recreationally during lockdown with people willing to cycle to the shops/work/school.
There's such a difference between going out for a pootle because the weather's nice and there's nothing else to do and cycling to get somewhere you need to be.
4K seems alot for a regular e-bike with beefy panniers. Not sure any local deliveries will need 200kg loads or use the sort of riders that can confidently pilot that sort of vehicle through town traffic. Maybe a £1.5k bike and a trailer will do the job just as well and not put off uptake as a result on the high entrance costs? The concept is brilliant and more town centres need motor vehicle restrictions in place going forward.
It is irrelevant of course, but I really like that blue/white striped shirt. I am sorry to mention such a triviality but it just appeals a lot- I want one like that! The bikes look like excellent sense - probably costly but no problem for a business that's working in a busy urban area.
These bike based episodes are far superior and accessible than the madness of EV car world. Love their everyday, practical and affordable nature.
You can't have looked at the prices for a decent E-Bike then, solidly in the luxury segment for the majority of the population.
@@1001ewaste Buy local quality and have the phone answered if you have a problem, or buy Chinesium and be on your own.
@@astranger448 Well that's ultimately part of the issue, local often doesn't mean local it means offshore manufacturing with a label stuck on it. It still doesn't change the affordability aspect either way to be honest.
shame it's so expensive that the people you'd want riding them can't afford them.
Butcher and grocer delivery boys up until the 1940's when pushbike home deliveries fell out of use in favour of motorised transport, would have dearly loved one of those.
I think the use case for this is very limited, except for very small specialist items like medical supplies, and take-away food, from a local outlet. A weekly shop for a typical family would be a full load in that trailer and very heavy, so only one delivery per trip. Much better is to develop small electric delivery vans. Actually, we already have those!
There was a slightly contradictory bit where the guy from Ginger talks about people ordering online and then says how much people like going to the High Street. If the business model allows people to shop locally and then have their shopping delivered later in the day it could massively reduce inefficient short car journeys to the local shops that people do because they don't want to carry their shopping home.
If you want to promote cycling you have to make the road more safe for cyclists. The cycling country in Europe is of course Nederland.
City planners should go to Nederland and see how to make cycling a more efficient way of getting to places than a car.
Unfortunately the presenter seems unaware that in times gone by all grocery shops had a delivery boy who used a cargo bike. It's only the 'e' that is new. I'm sure that Bobby remembers.
Nope, a few times she used 'again' she just wasn't very explicit about it. I think the more explicit references probably got edited out, for fear of coming across as a luddite.
As a time-served ebiker; I think this is great is a flat are but in many places it will be thwarted by the 250W legal assis limit, I believe there is a valid case for more power (with the same speed limit) for cargo bikes compared to a 'normal ebike'.
I think the limit is to do with driver expectation of normal cyclist speed, which basically means, see cyclist but not look and watch cyclist and judge oncoming speed. These assumptions cause accidents.
@@melodysouljahrootsdubpress5539 I agree, that is why I say 'the same speed', the purpose of more power would be to offer more torque for hills, without this cargo ebikes will never catch on in areas with hills
Over here 250Watt/25kmh is treated like a regular bicycle. Faster or more powerful is treated like a moped (42kmh motorcycle) with registration, insurance and whatever local law requires. Makes sense for the professional delivery biker to conform to the available local laws for a higher power/speed cargo bike.
I wonder how long it will be before the drivers are not required. It's not a bad job but it does seem to be work that does not need to be done by a person. A small electric van the size of a wheely bin could zip around town and be loaded up where required and drive itself to a destination where the customer unlocks it with a pin code. Roll on the 3 day week for all!
Don't be silly it's a 6 day week for 1 person and no job for the other, that's the English way
Have you any info on how this Delivery system works, and how much it costs ?
I live in Rural Somerset, and a set-up like this could help both local Shops AND their Customers who live outside our local 'main' Village, so what are the Charges & Costs involved for participating Shops and Customers ?
Contact CoBikes in Exeter. They have a fleet of Cargo bikes.
Seams like uk is a bit behind the times. Large cities, like New York, have been using bike transport for years. Go to Mexico and see the smaller rural towns and they are everywhere, both assisted and human powered, used as taxis, food delivery and everything else under the sun. Good to see a push there but this is not really “new”. Then if your there to give shop owners a thought to market their products, big thumbs up!
More technical info would be good. KWh Battery, KW motor, Range, How much help on hills. Recharge time.
Cost, Running costs. etc
I would love to see some bike sharing schemes in towns and villages. Several shops leasing and sharing bikes together. That has got to be the future.
Plenty of brands out nowadays, some even cheap(ish). Running costs are low, the kind of low I don't bother keeping track. Range depends on the size(price) of the battery, the load and the hillyness of the terrain you must deal with. Motor power is a legal thing. Most countries consider a 250Watt, limited to 25kmh e-bike a regular bicycle. More power and/or speed is treated similar to a moped, requiring license, helmet, insurance or whatever your local law can come up with. For a flatland cargo bike for 2 kids and groceries 250Watt does the trick, if you need hauling washing machines up the Mont Blanc not so much
Is this the modern version of Granville’s bike from Open All Hours, except with pedal assist. Perhaps a switch version of an old Victorian shop bike would be useful.
all e bikes are a great idea, the speed restrictions are so very very poorly thought out though even 22 would be so much better
Talk to the Boring company. There are no limits on how many highways you can build down. I know London has a lot of infrastructure under the ground but I'm sure you could fit narrow tunnels under existing roads providing all weather safe routes through the most congested routes.
I do all my shopping on my e-bike. Its perfect.
Don't have a car
Those ebikes are massively overpriced. Yes, it costs more to build a sturdy bike for cargo than a "normal" bike, but not significantly so. I built a Dahon folding bike into an ebike for my wife, and it cost me less than £500 total (I got the Dahon for £200 barely used, but even if I'd paid full price I'd still be around £1k). With a 24v, 14.5ah battery (348wh).
Ebike manufacturers are taking the mick - there's no way they should be charging these prices. We're being ripped off for trying to be responsible.
"We're being ripped off for trying to be responsible."
OF COURSE WE ARE. This is part of the ponzi scheme aka economy. Why do you think the main point in the global agenda is "the change"... because there's money to be squeezed out of the pigs... I mean consumers. Not only do the "green" products cost more, they drag the market up, making things that aren't green also more expensive to buy (whilst costing less and less to produce). Give consumers negative interest rates so that they have to spend money otherwise they lose each month and you have a perpetuum mobile.
@@louisyoko2723 The only way I know to fight back (other than building my own "green" things and saving a small fortune) is to spread information about the subject, in hopes people make more informed choices.
Not that it matters at this point, so perhaps I'm an idiot for even trying to raise any kind of awareness.
Ah yes, they have them built by the million in China for cheap. Wish it was, but most of these outfits are fairly small and paying a specialist workforce right here in the UK, the US or the EU.
@@astranger448 Not being funny, but if I can build a bike for under £1000, starting with a decent bike like a Dahon, then so can a specialist workforce here in the UK, the US or the EU. In fact, they should have (albiet fairly small) economies of scale that I don't have, and therefore their costs should be lower than mine.
Besides, the likes of Raleigh are also ripping us off, with £1500 ebikes based on £250 bike frames.
The same goes for electric cars such as the ID.3 - it's more than £15,000 more expensive than the equivalent golf, but I can put together the same battery pack for around £10,000. WV has to be paying significantly less than me for batteries, and since every part of an EV is the same cost or less than an ICE apart from the battery - why the £15,000 premium when they must be paying £5,000 or less for the battery?
We're being green-taxed far, far too much while the planet is dying - we should be being incentivised, not ripped off.
@@antontaylor4530 Building to produce in, specialized equipment, R&D, advertising budget, production staff, non-production staff, aftersales, warehousing, a delivery van, some-one who answers the phone when your bike breaks, some-one who repairs your bike when it breaks, warranty, spare parts supply for existing and past models....
No idea how your company works but the one I work for (not at all bike related, power tools) has all of these.
Bikes are fun and all... right until it starts to rain. Then everyone wishes they had a car or a van.
Shame you didn’t get to see the EAV Cargo bike... it is “next gen” but would have made an interesting addition 😊
Why revive the high street? There is a reason the high street is dying. Its because they are overrun with poor quality, expensive chain stores. Its so rare to find a truly unique high street in the UK. Lets face it they will never compete with the like of online retailers. Why not adapt? I personally think street food is the key. Provide a service that cannot be be done online. Good quality, diverse street food with support from the government to use outdoor public space for seating is the key!
The big issue for high streets is also parking which is really what started the decline, before this year people would happily drive an hour to a massive shopping center because they had a reasonable certainty they would be able to park and then have access to many of the things you mentioned e.g. food and areas to relax and socialise. Funnily enough a lot of issues lie at the feet of local councils who often see motorists as an easy target for taxation via parking charges and high street businesses are also an easy target for rents and rates.
One of the issues with cycling of any kind is the UK weather. If your using an e-bike as a primary means of transport especially commuting to work or moving goods about you can bet people are going to jump in there cars during very cold or wet days and then their is the dark nights from October.
I think that the speed needs to be higher. Are the brick lanes big enough for these.
What puts me off is what do you do with the thing while you are in the shop, bearing in mind the tern bikes here start at 3K, you need an arsenal of locks and chains to lock it up, then you have to carry the stuff you are going to fill it with, likey I would just walk to the shops with a backpack or take the car. its long way from being carefree whipping about the shops, its a right hassle.
How is a cargo bike "expensive", when a car or delivery van costs ten times the money for acquisition, let alone the operating costs, service, fuel?
Think about the economics of running a delivery business, what is your single biggest cost?
@@1001ewaste You mean labour cost? You're less prone to traffic jams, parking space shortages, you may use bike lanes or bike-only roads, you can often ride against the direction of one-way roads. If you have longer distances, use the faster 45 km/h S-Pedelec version of your cargo bike. This may be individual for your business and YMMV, but I doubt a cargo bike is generally slower and will therefore produce more labour cost.
@@lietzium It's not about how fast a bike vs a van is to be honest, a van can transport far more cargo so as mentioned elsewhere fewer dead legs to return to collect more cargo. If you've worked in a logistics business you'll appreciate the main challenge is volume rather than weight, that's why the Merc Sprinter XLWB is pretty much the default option for many businesses, a cargo bike eventually evolves into a trike and then a small electric 'van'. Alternatives to the traditional 'van' do have their place in highly urbanised or pedestrianised areas but it's pretty niche compared to the hype train many board at the first opportunity.
The irony I see is that UberEats, and other 'innovative' black holes of venture capital, make it work through a combination of relatively high value luxury goods being transported and modern slavery / wage labour / gig economy exploitation. (Might be a bit 'overdramatic')