This is a great yet simple idea. In addition to tour idea I'm thinking of fabbing a cap made of stainless screen to keep the drain from getting plugged with all the leaves I get on my cover. Thank you Ed!
I prepared all the items needed early before closing the pool. I am watching the rain fall and the pool cover drain as I am leaving a comment. Thank You thank you genius idea. Looking forward to Spring. 5⃣
Hi Ed. I have a pool company and wanted to lend your viewers additional tricks. I use foam woggles (the styrofoam tubes which people use to float around with) and snip 2 inches off the end and splice them to they fit into the jets prior to capping them with a winterizing plug. Then I use the balance of the woggle and twist it into the skimmer box (as opposed to the volleyball). I also use sections of the woggle to plug open hoses to keep rodents out. Balancing the pool prior to closing is key and glad you emphasized this.
I think this is an absolutely wonderful idea! Ingenious! I’ve been watching it over and over for years. I hired someone to do it. Unfortunately, it ended up not working, for several reasons. I actually have paid over $400. trying to get someone to make it work! I’m telling you because you have a wonderful brain and I really think you should get a patent on this. Time to try again, closing my pool!! Thank you for this video!
This needs to be seen by more people! Great idea! I tried to figure out a way in the past and even looked on YT but your vid didn’t come up. Glad it randomly came up. Thx
Possibly, I put in search “Rain overflow system for above ground pool”. Based on that search I got lots of ways to manually, not passively, remove water from your pool. Not sure what you put in. Sure glad though that it popped up in my feed. Great idea. I live in the northwest and rain is more of a problem, then snow and ice. Simple and effective. Thanks.
I've been thinking of this idea, though mine was to put the drain in the center and I never tried it. Your version seems very elegant. Maybe I'll give it a try. Thanks!
Hi Ed, just found your video searching for above ground pool covers. This will be my first time winterizing the pool and I really really loved your video. I liked the idea of using PVC pipes to keep it snug. We have 15x30 oval pool, so using the PVC pipe would be easier than a round pool. Thanks a lot for taking the time to make and upload this video.
Thank you for the nice comment. I'm not sure if the PVC pipe will have enough outward pressure on an oval pool on the straight section. Let me know if it works well.
Great idea! I’ll be trying this at the end of this pool year for sure. A few ideas i may incorporate as possible improvements: 1. Why not use T couplings for all the connection points of the pvc pipes so you can incorporate your under the lip vertical push down points into the existing frame work? May not eliminate all of the snap on pieces you have to add, but it’ll definitely cut down on the number, and cost. 2. To add a provision for the evaporation issues you mentioned, why not use a flexible pipe for the drain line that goes into the discharge? I’m talking maybe just enough flexible hose added to the drain piping to allow for a few inches of travel. This way the drain point won’t be too rigid and could ride a potential level change of the pool water. You’d probably have to add some water upon closing of the pool to assure the pool covers drain stays above the pump discharge point. This should prevent the flexible hose from sagging lower than the drain exit on the pool wall, as this would create a low point that could collect water and cause freeze issues.
Thanks Dan. On number 1, I put the push down pieces in the center of each metal top rail, where it extends out over the pool area the most. Unfortunately the pvc pieces are 10' long and the top rails are much shorter, so the pvc connectors do not line up as they go around. I have done one or two that way. I'm not sure about the flexible pipe. I think the biggest issue you will have is that it will want to float up, preventing the water from draining. Maybe you could design something adjustable. I find that just adding water under the cover when the water level drops works well. Also, I have been not draining the water level down to the top of the drain at the start of the season. If the water level starts at say 1 inch or more above, that gives some room for evaporation. Let me know how it goes!
G´day. Great stuff. Snow and ice here in Sweden during winter. How about: 1. Just leave the skimmer open in the bottom? 2. Make an opening in the cover where the skimmer is and use that? Never understood the use of one pillow. A neighbour uses the white insulation that float on the water to keep the level up. But you need to dry them during summer as they get waterlogged during the long winter. Great work!
Thank you. I considered using the skimmer in some way like you are suggesting, but I never came up with what I thought to be a better plan in detail than what I have.
i am amazed at the soccer ball in the skimmer does it really keep it from freezing and busting. I will be giving this a try this winter your system is great. better than paying almost $100.00 for the Dryco Pool Cover Drain Kit. LOL Thank you for your info.
Like your setup system for winterizing your pool but wondering about cold winter climate such as Atlantic Canada where we get temperatures range from +5 to -25 (Celsius) with sizeable snow storm amounts & accumulations during the winter. 🤔
I have had winters here in Kentucky where we get stretchs of -10 to -15 Fahrenheit and the system seemed to do ok. I have noticed when temperatures are that cold I occasionally hear some loud poping sounds. But everything seems to hold up ok. Of course I am not sure how it will do up in Canada.
I love this idea! I get so much water on my cover that I used a sump pump to drain it as much as I can before the first hard snow and freeze. Do you have any issue with the drain clogging up? or you lucky and don't get many leaves on the pool during winter? Also if by chance you don't know by now since this video is 5 years old...The pillow in the center of the pool is the same concept you did with the ball in the skimmer. If the water in the pool freezes too thick, that pillow is a sacrifice thus popping and releasing stress from the pool walls. This way your pool doesn't potentially exploded if there is a real harsh winter.
Thank you. I do not have too much trouble with the drain clogging. I have pine trees around my pool, so mostly just pine needles clogging the drain, but I do keep an eye on it and have to clean it occasionally. Interesting about the pillow. I push the soccer ball down into the skimmer and under water and is held down by a locking skimmer cover. When the water freezes it can easily absorb any extra space it takes up. The pillow is resting on top of the water, so I am wondering if it can really absorb much pressure. I would think it would lower a little bit in the water, but not much. When it gets super cold, my pool does sometimes make very loud popping noises. I assume the water is freezing and maybe raising up within the pool wall as it expands. But there never seems to be any harm done or anything broken once it thaws.
@@edfessler Yea.. The idea is that when the balloon pops the pressure is release thus saving your walls. I always took it as to keep water off the cover. I only ever had 1 pop on me and when it did I was mad.. Until I read what the main purpose of it was.. It's supposed to pop if to much pressure. I don't know the science behind it where if pop and a hole in ice in middle releases pressure. Here is what one site says... This is accomplished by placing the air-filled pillow under the pool cover, creating a void between the water and the cover. This helps turn the pillow into an ice compensator: when the pressure builds up due to the pool freezing, the ice expands inward towards the pillow instead of outwards into the pool walls.
@Tig3rj Interesting. Maybe the pillow acts as an insulator as well, so the center freezes later than the outside. I'm thinking if it gets colder and longer and the ice gets thicker it will stop having that effect.
Ed what great DIY I have this problem with my pool after a rainstorm and it's cover for the winter. But up here in North Jersey I don't think it would work for us once it starts to snow the snow will lay on their end freeze. But I love your idea great video.
Sometimes we get a pretty good amount of snow here in Kentucky. I just leave it on there until it melts! :-) I'm sure you get quite a bit more up there though. Of course some of the pool water on top will also freeze during the winter. I just leave that as well until it thaws out as well.
One word...trademark!!! Thank you for the video!!!! Do you have any ideas on the drainage outside the pool? I don't have a big yard, so when it drains my yard becomes a lake
I love that. I was thinking how to do that. My concern is freezing at that level almost at the weer and around the inlet valve? I wonder with a 15x30 could I use pillow on one side to elevate the cover and drive water to the drain. I have some underground flex pipe I could use if the water level drops, then the drain will have the ability to drop slightly. I may have to produce a siphon if it get below the outlet. You have thought of everything.
Last year I had some days of really cold weather. There was some strange loud popping sounds. I think it was the fitting on the pool wall for the drain that was moving. Looking at it when I opened the pool it seemed that there was no harm done. I think maybe it was being pushed up on the pool wall. But I'm not a hundred percent sure.
I wonder if one could use coping foam around the edge of the pool under the piping instead of the pillow. That would allow ice expansion while leaving the center flat.
I like the idea. Thinking about doing it but worried that if the water level changes too much the rigid pvc pipes might break apart. I'm thinking of using some kind of flexible hose connection that can move with the changing water level. Btw, you said you never really understood the purpose of using the "pillow". Actually you do know. You just don't know that you know. Yet! :) Your drain system freezes up in the winter and as a result ice builds up on top of your liner. That ice expands and exerts tremendous pressure on the pool wall , which can tear the wall to shreds. Now with a pillow in place under the liner, it will act just like the volley ball in the skimmer, giving the ice room to expand inwards, towards the soft pillow, instead of outwards towards the rigid wall. Told you that you knew :)
LOL! I always knew I was smarter that I thought! ;-) The water level will change. I think the water evaporates since the tubing on the side is always pressing the cover down, then water seeps through the cover and evaporates. The result is that the drain can be above the cover, sometimes an inch or more over time. This causes the cover not to drain all the water off. The tubing has never broke, the cover just raises up to the level of the drain. I fix this by just adding water to the pool below the cover. Water would most likely be added when you open the pool anyway. Then the remaining water on top will drain off naturally. Sometimes I will give it some help with a push broom and clean off any debris. My first try I used flexible tubing as well. I actually used tubing normally used from the pump to the filter and used regular hose connectors to attach to the outlet and drain on the cover. It worked well but it was a real pain to slide the hose onto the fittings since the hose I used was used for high pressure and was very tight. It was not worth the hassle. If you could find something softer it might be better. But as I said, I have never had anything break, even when the water froze.
Fantastic! You really should market it! I actually had one made the other day and there is a leak somewhere in the drain. I would be interested in your input. 😊
I really hope you live somewhere that the winter is not cold bc you are asking for your your skimmer or return to freeze and rip off the wall. By the look of the wall saver your have on your skimmer/return section it looks like it has already happened in the past
It freezes solid every year, but I've never had a problem. I have replaced my skimmer once, but the pool is about 22 years old. My new skimmer is much better than the one that came with the pool. :-)
Thank you! It is not any kind of special cover, just a mid-grade cover I bought at the pool store. Not sure exactly the brand. The Hayward Return Fitting part number I used is SP1023.
Wouldn’t the ice forming under the cover will also put pressure on the drain you installed which may damage the jet seal in the pool wall or compromise the corrugated steal wall by bending it?
I did consider the pressure on the drain when the temperatures get super low and there is a lot of freezing. I'm sure there is some pressure, but since there is nothing actually solid under the water that is frozen, just more water, so that may limit the amount of pressure it produces. When temperatures are super low for a long period of time (Like single digits Fahrenheit), I do sometimes hear some loud popping. I'm not sure exactly where it is coming from, but I have never found any damage from it. As far as putting pressure on the outside walls of the pool, I would think that it would not be any different than just doing it the normal way. It will still freeze and produce the pressure. I am thinking that this is where the popping in super cold weather may be coming from. Again, it seems to be ok.
Isn’t a pillow use to ease the pressure of ice forming when the water accumulated on top of cover starts to freeze? The pillow is under the cover so the water on top of the cover surrounding the pillow will put pressure on the side of the pillow when freezing occurs.
I'm not sure, but that could be the case. With this self draining system there will not be any water on the top of the cover to freeze. But you ask the next logical question with your next comment about the water freezing under the cover! LOL
thanks for sharing your experience Ed... I am curious what part of the county you are in? I live in Michigan and we have some pretty hard winters. I really like your Pipe around the edges. I had wondering about constructing something like that to minimize the tarp blowing in the wind
@@edfessler That's funny because I was wondering the same thing, (about where you lived) and we are near Bowling Green, KY, so if it works fine for you it should for us too! :) Thanks for the video!
What pool cover are you using that doesn't let water seep up from pool cause then it'll drain pool level out...I bought high end cover but water seems to still seep through..thanks for sharing this
You are very welcome. The cover brand I bought was Mid West. It was the Supreme, which I think is a mid-grade cover. I got it from Swimming Pools of Louisville (Recreonics). The first year I used it, it did pretty well and there was little if any seeping through. After that it does happen. I just add water under the cover when it gets too low, and that allows the level to come up and drain out what is on top of the cover. I don't think any cover would be perfect as far as this goes.
I am thinking that even if it pushes up on the top of the rails, the those plates have enough give in them to allow for the additional pressure. It has never been an issue since I have been using this system.
Thanks for this great video! I would like to know more about not having to use an ice compression pillow as you commented on in the video even though you do occasionally have harsh cold winters. I can't find any source that does not recommend using one in cold winter climates. A technical reason would be appreciated if there is one. Perhaps one of your subscribers may know. Scobia1
It releases pressure from the pool walls and cover created from the freezing. Probably search for pool pillow pressure and find a more in-depth explanation.
Ed would it have been cheaper to use tees instead of straight couplers to join lengths of pipe end to end that go around the circumference of the pool? Then you already have the vertical connections that you need and would just add the short length of pipe and tee to hold it down? My pool is 27’ diameter and would need 9 lengths of pipe (10’ long ) to make it around the circumference and would give me 10 tees pointing up to make the hold downs.
It is best to put them under and line them up with the center of each metal railing of the pool, because that is where you have the most overhang. The ends of each PVC section are at 10 feet, so they would not line up. Also there would not be enough of them. I think only 7 or 8 lengths of pvc.
Ed, what do you think about making your PVC that you install to prevent the wind from getting under the cover part of the drain as well? Like after it’s installed drill small holes all the way around so the water could find it’s way in then route to the drain. You’ll still need a hole in the cover but it would be to drain the perimeter PVC. I’d just like your take on this.
I think the water finds it's way around to the drain just by following next to the PVC the way it is. But of course you could always just try it and see how it goes. :-)
I live in northern Illinois. It freezes here. Would the frozen water harm the plastic box or anything? Is your location in the southern part of the states? Thanks. I would like to do this.
I'm in the Louisville KY area and it does get very cold here sometimes. I have not had any major issues with the skimmer box or drain freezing. When it gets SUPER cold (maybe single digits or lower) the pool will make very loud creeks/ pops every so often, maybe every 10 hours or so. I think maybe it is the frozen water rising skightly in the pool. I think it may push the water return/drain spot through the wall up slightly. But it has not been enough to cause any damage that I have noticed.
You said you don't understand the reason for the pillow; you explained precisely that when talking about the skimmer and valley ball that takes pressure. That is precisely the reason for the pillow, just a larger scale than the skimmer.
The volleyball is forced down into the skimmer so that the ice would form around it and it would take the pressure. The pillow would mostly float on top of the water in the pool with very little if any taking the pressure if a large amount of freezing of the pool water would take place. Do you think it would still help? Do you think it's purpose would be to help the pressure of the water in the pool, or the water that would accumulate on top of a normal cover? I thought it might be to help the airflow over the pool from damaging the cover as much in high winds, but that is just a guess.
@@edfessler…..it relieves the pressure if a thin layer of ice forms on the water BELOW the cover and/ or above (if you don’t drain the rainwater). So adding it to this method is a must. Just place the pillow more towards the wall opposite the drain and secure.
I talk about the pegs and describe each piece at 14:55. The top is just a 1" T. The middle is a piece of PVC cut a few inches long. The bottom that snaps on the PVC ring that goes around the pool is a 1" T piece where I cut a section out of with just a regular wood hand saw. I marked where I wanted to cut it and put it in a vice to hold it while I used the hand saw.
I bought a winter cover for my pool two years ago that you put a hole in the middle of the cover to allow the water to drain into the pool. This did not work very well so I'm going to try your method. I think it's genius. But my hole is going to be in the middle of the pool and I'm going to run a long hose to the outlet. Do you think I need the PVC pipe around the edge for this setup? I'm thinking that the weight of the outlet and the hose will be enough to allow the water to pool in the center of the pool. What do you think?
I think the water will run to the center of the pool cover ok. But there needs to be a downward slope from there to the outlet through your PVC pipe. I think that will be your problem since I think the PVC pipe will sag towards the middle as well. But of course you can try it. I also think the PVC pipe around d the edge would still be helpful. But really, if you think all this might work, you just have to try it and see. :-)
Got our first rain and it was a fully washer and it's draining fine. Yes, there's a little problem with the water pooling in certain areas of the cover, but I can push it to the middle with the pool brush. Not perfect but much better than using a small pump and a brick to draw the water, lol
Hi, I live in The Netherlands and there is a good chance my pool will freeze in winter. Can be 3 cm of ice can be 15 cm of ice. Whatever it is: I was advised to drain the pool below the in and outflow holes...Otherwise everything can freeze and be destroyed because ice expands. May be where you live there is no ice and snow? Or is there and if so: what is your experience with all this? Thanks and thank you for your good solution for water on the cover!
I live in Northern Kentucky. Sometimes we can have mild Winters, and sometimes we can have harsh Winters. The top of my pool will normally freeze during winter, but it has never caused a problem. As I showed in my video, I use a small volleyball with most of the air taken out to allow expansion for freezing. There are other devices commercially available that can be used for the same purpose. The drain itself has never had a problem with ice that forms around it. I think you should be okay.
Hi Ed could you let me know what type of pool you have and what you think about the quality. I am planning on purchasing a 12-foot round pool for my family here in CA. Thanks!
I have a standard 24' round pool. It has a stainless steel panel for where the skimmer and water return come through. It has held up for 23 years so I guess the quality is ok. :-)
GREAT VIDEO! I already installed the drain as per your vid the only question/ concern i have is about the pvc. You mention to make sure its very tight. I have an oval pool and can't get the pvc to run along the inside very tight. The are few spots where pvc is pressed up against inside pool but other spots its about 1/2 inch. Would this create problems for draining? Lastly, in your video it looks like your drain in slightly lower then pool cover, which would create a pitch to help direct the water. So is it lower? If yes, did you add water after you were done? Thanks for doing this video. I look forward to not having clean the water off after it rains.
Thank you very much! I have never installed this on an oval pool, so I am sorry that I really don't know how well it would work with that. When I installed this drain in the video, I let the water drain down to the very top of it. When I put the cover on it does appear that the cover is slightly above the drain. I did not add any extra water. However, over time the water can evaporate from the pool through the cover. I do add water from time to time to bring the level back up to the level of the drain.
Thank you! I re-use the old one. You just have to get the drain hole placed over the drain in the right spot when you put it on after the first year. After you lay it on the pool, it is not hard to rotate or move it slightly into the right position.
Thanks for the reply! I have a 16x32 oval pool and the cover is always a real pain to put on. I just had a cover custom made so I don’t think I’m going to cut a hole in it yet. Maybe in a few years though. I’m definitely saving the video for future reference.
Well, I have not had -10s, but maybe negative single digits. I do hear some occasional load popping in extreme cold temperatures. I figure it might be the frozen ice on top shifting up slightly. But I have not seen any damage.
Question, i have large trees above my pool, that drop leaves, that i regularly have to remove from my cover. Do you think this sort of system would still work or would it get clogged too easily?
I'm not sure if this would work well for you with lots of trees/leaves. The only thing I can tell you is that if you use this method, you will need to keep the drain clear of the leaves. I have pine trees around my pool, so I do have to clear pine needles from time to time, but I'm sure I don't have to do it as often as you would.
I've got leaves too and I'm opting out of the drain idea but I and going to put a net below and above my pool cover. I will fill the pool before taking the pool cover off. I am in FLORIDA and last yr my water & chems dehydrated. Pool in the sun 85% of the days...I can't keep this pool. No leaks but it's become a money pit this yr.
It is just a regular pool cover you get at the pool store. I think this one was the one with a 3-year warranty. So it is a solid cover, but some water does seep up through it and evaporate, so the water level does usually go down slightly has the winter season goes on.
Just found the video, hopefully your still around answering questions. Do you have any issues of the drain freezing? Living in Indiana and wondered if that is an issue.
Here in Kentucky we had very cold temperatures for a couple weeks last winter. I did notice very loud popping from the pool area from time to time. My theory is that it was moving the drain return up slightly I. The pool wall as it was freezing. Not ideal by any means but didn't seem to do any real damage. I will loosen it and slide it down again. I'll have to think about it for a little while to see if I can come up with any ideas to make that situation better.
Just let the ice and snow accumulate, it does just fine. If you make the pipe too flexible, it will want to float and the drain will want to rise out of the water and raise the cover. It works well using the pipe.
Hands down, best solution for this problem. Gonna try this this fall. Thank you
This is a great yet simple idea. In addition to tour idea I'm thinking of fabbing a cap made of stainless screen to keep the drain from getting plugged with all the leaves I get on my cover. Thank you Ed!
I prepared all the items needed early before closing the pool. I am watching the rain fall and the pool cover drain as I am leaving a comment. Thank You thank you genius idea. Looking forward to Spring. 5⃣
Hi Ed. I have a pool company and wanted to lend your viewers additional tricks. I use foam woggles (the styrofoam tubes which people use to float around with) and snip 2 inches off the end and splice them to they fit into the jets prior to capping them with a winterizing plug. Then I use the balance of the woggle and twist it into the skimmer box (as opposed to the volleyball). I also use sections of the woggle to plug open hoses to keep rodents out. Balancing the pool prior to closing is key and glad you emphasized this.
Awesome! Thanks for the additional ideas! I particularly like the new way to protect the skimmer from freezing.
This is pure genius! Thanks dude!! In definitely doing this when I close my pool this year!
Should’ve taken this idea to the pool companies! Pretty genius. Kuddos!
I think this is an absolutely wonderful idea! Ingenious! I’ve been watching it over and over for years. I hired someone to do it. Unfortunately, it ended up not working, for several reasons. I actually have paid over $400. trying to get someone to make it work! I’m telling you because you have a wonderful brain and I really think you should get a patent on this. Time to try again, closing my pool!! Thank you for this video!
This needs to be seen by more people! Great idea! I tried to figure out a way in the past and even looked on YT but your vid didn’t come up. Glad it randomly came up. Thx
That's weird that you were searching for this type of video but you did not find it. I wonder if I need different keywords or something.
Possibly, I put in search “Rain overflow system for above ground pool”.
Based on that search I got lots of ways to manually, not passively, remove water from your pool.
Not sure what you put in.
Sure glad though that it popped up in my feed. Great idea.
I live in the northwest and rain is more of a problem, then snow and ice. Simple and effective. Thanks.
@@Mustang68 Thanks. I added "rain overflow" to my list of keywords.
I've been thinking of this idea, though mine was to put the drain in the center and I never tried it. Your version seems very elegant. Maybe I'll give it a try. Thanks!
You are very welcome!
Hi Ed, just found your video searching for above ground pool covers. This will be my first time winterizing the pool and I really really loved your video. I liked the idea of using PVC pipes to keep it snug. We have 15x30 oval pool, so using the PVC pipe would be easier than a round pool. Thanks a lot for taking the time to make and upload this video.
Thank you for the nice comment. I'm not sure if the PVC pipe will have enough outward pressure on an oval pool on the straight section. Let me know if it works well.
Amazing. Thanks a lot, I was trying to find a way too drain it off the top by placing pvc bows on top. God Bless You And You’re Family
Simply amazingly simple. Can't wait til the end of the season to try it out. Thank You!
Great idea. Going to do this next season. Thank you for the video.
Really good ideas. Thanks for posting this
that's pretty slick. I wonder how it would work in cold climates that have freeze/thaw.
Great idea! I’ll be trying this at the end of this pool year for sure. A few ideas i may incorporate as possible improvements:
1. Why not use T couplings for all the connection points of the pvc pipes so you can incorporate your under the lip vertical push down points into the existing frame work? May not eliminate all of the snap on pieces you have to add, but it’ll definitely cut down on the number, and cost.
2. To add a provision for the evaporation issues you mentioned, why not use a flexible pipe for the drain line that goes into the discharge? I’m talking maybe just enough flexible hose added to the drain piping to allow for a few inches of travel. This way the drain point won’t be too rigid and could ride a potential level change of the pool water. You’d probably have to add some water upon closing of the pool to assure the pool covers drain stays above the pump discharge point. This should prevent the flexible hose from sagging lower than the drain exit on the pool wall, as this would create a low point that could collect water and cause freeze issues.
Thanks Dan.
On number 1, I put the push down pieces in the center of each metal top rail, where it extends out over the pool area the most. Unfortunately the pvc pieces are 10' long and the top rails are much shorter, so the pvc connectors do not line up as they go around. I have done one or two that way.
I'm not sure about the flexible pipe. I think the biggest issue you will have is that it will want to float up, preventing the water from draining. Maybe you could design something adjustable.
I find that just adding water under the cover when the water level drops works well.
Also, I have been not draining the water level down to the top of the drain at the start of the season. If the water level starts at say 1 inch or more above, that gives some room for evaporation.
Let me know how it goes!
Great video, I'm a little late to get this set up for this year but might try this next year. Thank you and good work.
Your video makes me think. Thanks for the idea
G´day. Great stuff. Snow and ice here in Sweden during winter. How about:
1. Just leave the skimmer open in the bottom?
2. Make an opening in the cover where the skimmer is and use that?
Never understood the use of one pillow. A neighbour uses the white insulation that float on the water to keep the level up. But you need to dry them during summer as they get waterlogged during the long winter.
Great work!
Thank you. I considered using the skimmer in some way like you are suggesting, but I never came up with what I thought to be a better plan in detail than what I have.
I have used my skimmer like that last with once my water levels dropped
i am amazed at the soccer ball in the skimmer does it really keep it from freezing and busting. I will be giving this a try this winter your system is great. better than paying almost $100.00 for the Dryco Pool Cover Drain Kit. LOL Thank you for your info.
Yes, the soccer ball works. Just take most of the pressure out of it so it is very soft.
Just finished . Well done👌
Like your setup system for winterizing your pool but wondering about cold winter climate such as Atlantic Canada where we get temperatures range from +5 to -25 (Celsius) with sizeable snow storm amounts & accumulations during the winter. 🤔
I have had winters here in Kentucky where we get stretchs of -10 to -15 Fahrenheit and the system seemed to do ok. I have noticed when temperatures are that cold I occasionally hear some loud poping sounds. But everything seems to hold up ok. Of course I am not sure how it will do up in Canada.
@@edfesslerthanks will probably use the Extreme Tarp system from Pool Supplies Canada 🇨🇦 next winter ❄️
I love this idea! I get so much water on my cover that I used a sump pump to drain it as much as I can before the first hard snow and freeze.
Do you have any issue with the drain clogging up? or you lucky and don't get many leaves on the pool during winter?
Also if by chance you don't know by now since this video is 5 years old...The pillow in the center of the pool is the same concept you did with the ball in the skimmer. If the water in the pool freezes too thick, that pillow is a sacrifice thus popping and releasing stress from the pool walls. This way your pool doesn't potentially exploded if there is a real harsh winter.
Thank you.
I do not have too much trouble with the drain clogging. I have pine trees around my pool, so mostly just pine needles clogging the drain, but I do keep an eye on it and have to clean it occasionally.
Interesting about the pillow. I push the soccer ball down into the skimmer and under water and is held down by a locking skimmer cover. When the water freezes it can easily absorb any extra space it takes up. The pillow is resting on top of the water, so I am wondering if it can really absorb much pressure. I would think it would lower a little bit in the water, but not much. When it gets super cold, my pool does sometimes make very loud popping noises. I assume the water is freezing and maybe raising up within the pool wall as it expands. But there never seems to be any harm done or anything broken once it thaws.
@@edfessler Yea.. The idea is that when the balloon pops the pressure is release thus saving your walls. I always took it as to keep water off the cover. I only ever had 1 pop on me and when it did I was mad.. Until I read what the main purpose of it was.. It's supposed to pop if to much pressure. I don't know the science behind it where if pop and a hole in ice in middle releases pressure.
Here is what one site says...
This is accomplished by placing the air-filled pillow under the pool cover, creating a void between the water and the cover. This helps turn the pillow into an ice compensator: when the pressure builds up due to the pool freezing, the ice expands inward towards the pillow instead of outwards into the pool walls.
@Tig3rj Interesting. Maybe the pillow acts as an insulator as well, so the center freezes later than the outside. I'm thinking if it gets colder and longer and the ice gets thicker it will stop having that effect.
Ed what great DIY I have this problem with my pool after a rainstorm and it's cover for the winter. But up here in North Jersey I don't think it would work for us once it starts to snow the snow will lay on their end freeze. But I love your idea great video.
Sometimes we get a pretty good amount of snow here in Kentucky. I just leave it on there until it melts! :-) I'm sure you get quite a bit more up there though. Of course some of the pool water on top will also freeze during the winter. I just leave that as well until it thaws out as well.
@@edfessler sounds real good maybe I'll do that for the next time around I found your idea to be the best thanks.
Did you do it? and how did it work?
One word...trademark!!! Thank you for the video!!!! Do you have any ideas on the drainage outside the pool? I don't have a big yard, so when it drains my yard becomes a lake
Thank you!
I'm not sure I have too many ideas for that. You just have to make a route for the water to drain away downhill. :-)
My daughter floods hers and her neighbors yards if she drains it so she gets a caca suckered truck to come take that water away
I love that. I was thinking how to do that. My concern is freezing at that level almost at the weer and around the inlet valve? I wonder with a 15x30 could I use pillow on one side to elevate the cover and drive water to the drain. I have some underground flex pipe I could use if the water level drops, then the drain will have the ability to drop slightly. I may have to produce a siphon if it get below the outlet. You have thought of everything.
Last year I had some days of really cold weather. There was some strange loud popping sounds. I think it was the fitting on the pool wall for the drain that was moving. Looking at it when I opened the pool it seemed that there was no harm done. I think maybe it was being pushed up on the pool wall. But I'm not a hundred percent sure.
Did you do it? and how did it work with the freeze?
Good video...thanks!
I wonder if one could use coping foam around the edge of the pool under the piping instead of the pillow. That would allow ice expansion while leaving the center flat.
I'm not sure if that would be beneficial or not. You could give it a try and see if you think it helps.
I like the idea. Thinking about doing it but worried that if the water level changes too much the rigid pvc pipes might break apart. I'm thinking of using some kind of flexible hose connection that can move with the changing water level.
Btw, you said you never really understood the purpose of using the "pillow". Actually you do know. You just don't know that you know. Yet! :)
Your drain system freezes up in the winter and as a result ice builds up on top of your liner. That ice expands and exerts tremendous pressure on the pool wall , which can tear the wall to shreds. Now with a pillow in place under the liner, it will act just like the volley ball in the skimmer, giving the ice room to expand inwards, towards the soft pillow, instead of outwards towards the rigid wall.
Told you that you knew :)
LOL! I always knew I was smarter that I thought! ;-)
The water level will change. I think the water evaporates since the tubing on the side is always pressing the cover down, then water seeps through the cover and evaporates. The result is that the drain can be above the cover, sometimes an inch or more over time. This causes the cover not to drain all the water off. The tubing has never broke, the cover just raises up to the level of the drain. I fix this by just adding water to the pool below the cover. Water would most likely be added when you open the pool anyway. Then the remaining water on top will drain off naturally. Sometimes I will give it some help with a push broom and clean off any debris.
My first try I used flexible tubing as well. I actually used tubing normally used from the pump to the filter and used regular hose connectors to attach to the outlet and drain on the cover. It worked well but it was a real pain to slide the hose onto the fittings since the hose I used was used for high pressure and was very tight. It was not worth the hassle. If you could find something softer it might be better. But as I said, I have never had anything break, even when the water froze.
Fantastic! You really should market it! I actually had one made the other day and there is a leak somewhere in the drain. I would be interested in your input. 😊
Cool idea. Very nice video.
Brilliant! Does this work when the pool is covered with snow?
Thank you. I have had snow on mine many times. It has always done fine.
I really hope you live somewhere that the winter is not cold bc you are asking for your your skimmer or return to freeze and rip off the wall. By the look of the wall saver your have on your skimmer/return section it looks like it has already happened in the past
It freezes solid every year, but I've never had a problem. I have replaced my skimmer once, but the pool is about 22 years old. My new skimmer is much better than the one that came with the pool. :-)
Great idea and very nice install! What kind of cover do you use? What is the part number for the hayward drain piece you use. Thank you!
Thank you! It is not any kind of special cover, just a mid-grade cover I bought at the pool store. Not sure exactly the brand. The Hayward Return Fitting part number I used is SP1023.
Wouldn’t the ice forming under the cover will also put pressure on the drain you installed which may damage the jet seal in the pool wall or compromise the corrugated steal wall by bending it?
I did consider the pressure on the drain when the temperatures get super low and there is a lot of freezing. I'm sure there is some pressure, but since there is nothing actually solid under the water that is frozen, just more water, so that may limit the amount of pressure it produces. When temperatures are super low for a long period of time (Like single digits Fahrenheit), I do sometimes hear some loud popping. I'm not sure exactly where it is coming from, but I have never found any damage from it.
As far as putting pressure on the outside walls of the pool, I would think that it would not be any different than just doing it the normal way. It will still freeze and produce the pressure. I am thinking that this is where the popping in super cold weather may be coming from. Again, it seems to be ok.
Isn’t a pillow use to ease the pressure of ice forming when the water accumulated on top of cover starts to freeze? The pillow is under the cover so the water on top of the cover surrounding the pillow will put pressure on the side of the pillow when freezing occurs.
I'm not sure, but that could be the case. With this self draining system there will not be any water on the top of the cover to freeze. But you ask the next logical question with your next comment about the water freezing under the cover! LOL
thanks for sharing your experience Ed... I am curious what part of the county you are in? I live in Michigan and we have some pretty hard winters. I really like your Pipe around the edges. I had wondering about constructing something like that to minimize the tarp blowing in the wind
You are very welcome. I'm glad you found this helpful. I live in the Louisville Kentucky area.
@@edfessler That's funny because I was wondering the same thing, (about where you lived) and we are near Bowling Green, KY, so if it works fine for you it should for us too! :) Thanks for the video!
@@edfessler Harlan Ky here ❤️
Did you do it? and how did it work?
What pool cover are you using that doesn't let water seep up from pool cause then it'll drain pool level out...I bought high end cover but water seems to still seep through..thanks for sharing this
You are very welcome. The cover brand I bought was Mid West. It was the Supreme, which I think is a mid-grade cover. I got it from Swimming Pools of Louisville (Recreonics). The first year I used it, it did pretty well and there was little if any seeping through. After that it does happen. I just add water under the cover when it gets too low, and that allows the level to come up and drain out what is on top of the cover. I don't think any cover would be perfect as far as this goes.
:) lol Ed we were talking about like 2 week ago ... great to see this video
What about the pressure of the ice forming under the cover and expansion causing upward pressure on the pvc pipe and the rails on top of the pool?
I am thinking that even if it pushes up on the top of the rails, the those plates have enough give in them to allow for the additional pressure. It has never been an issue since I have been using this system.
Thanks for this great video!
I would like to know more about not having to use an ice compression pillow as you commented on in the video even though you do occasionally have harsh cold winters. I can't find any source that does not recommend using one in cold winter climates. A technical reason would be appreciated if there is one. Perhaps one of your subscribers may know.
Scobia1
I never really understood the reason for one, how it helps or what it helps with. I thought maybe the pillow was to help with wind.
It releases pressure from the pool walls and cover created from the freezing. Probably search for pool pillow pressure and find a more in-depth explanation.
This is what im looking for its just that i need to use it for fish pond
Ed would it have been cheaper to use tees instead of straight couplers to join lengths of pipe end to end that go around the circumference of the pool? Then you already have the vertical connections that you need and would just add the short length of pipe and tee to hold it down? My pool is 27’ diameter and would need 9 lengths of pipe (10’ long ) to make it around the circumference and would give me 10 tees pointing up to make the hold downs.
It is best to put them under and line them up with the center of each metal railing of the pool, because that is where you have the most overhang. The ends of each PVC section are at 10 feet, so they would not line up. Also there would not be enough of them. I think only 7 or 8 lengths of pvc.
Brilliant. Thank you!!
Ed, what do you think about making your PVC that you install to prevent the wind from getting under the cover part of the drain as well? Like after it’s installed drill small holes all the way around so the water could find it’s way in then route to the drain. You’ll still need a hole in the cover but it would be to drain the perimeter PVC. I’d just like your take on this.
I think the water finds it's way around to the drain just by following next to the PVC the way it is. But of course you could always just try it and see how it goes. :-)
I live in northern Illinois. It freezes here. Would the frozen water harm the plastic box or anything? Is your location in the southern part of the states? Thanks. I would like to do this.
I'm in the Louisville KY area and it does get very cold here sometimes. I have not had any major issues with the skimmer box or drain freezing. When it gets SUPER cold (maybe single digits or lower) the pool will make very loud creeks/ pops every so often, maybe every 10 hours or so. I think maybe it is the frozen water rising skightly in the pool. I think it may push the water return/drain spot through the wall up slightly. But it has not been enough to cause any damage that I have noticed.
You said you don't understand the reason for the pillow; you explained precisely that when talking about the skimmer and valley ball that takes pressure. That is precisely the reason for the pillow, just a larger scale than the skimmer.
The volleyball is forced down into the skimmer so that the ice would form around it and it would take the pressure. The pillow would mostly float on top of the water in the pool with very little if any taking the pressure if a large amount of freezing of the pool water would take place. Do you think it would still help? Do you think it's purpose would be to help the pressure of the water in the pool, or the water that would accumulate on top of a normal cover? I thought it might be to help the airflow over the pool from damaging the cover as much in high winds, but that is just a guess.
@@edfessler…..it relieves the pressure if a thin layer of ice forms on the water BELOW the cover and/ or above (if you don’t drain the rainwater). So adding it to this method is a must. Just place the pillow more towards the wall opposite the drain and secure.
How did u make the pegs for the pvc piping?
I talk about the pegs and describe each piece at 14:55. The top is just a 1" T. The middle is a piece of PVC cut a few inches long. The bottom that snaps on the PVC ring that goes around the pool is a 1" T piece where I cut a section out of with just a regular wood hand saw. I marked where I wanted to cut it and put it in a vice to hold it while I used the hand saw.
I bought a winter cover for my pool two years ago that you put a hole in the middle of the cover to allow the water to drain into the pool. This did not work very well so I'm going to try your method. I think it's genius. But my hole is going to be in the middle of the pool and I'm going to run a long hose to the outlet. Do you think I need the PVC pipe around the edge for this setup? I'm thinking that the weight of the outlet and the hose will be enough to allow the water to pool in the center of the pool. What do you think?
I think the water will run to the center of the pool cover ok. But there needs to be a downward slope from there to the outlet through your PVC pipe. I think that will be your problem since I think the PVC pipe will sag towards the middle as well. But of course you can try it. I also think the PVC pipe around d the edge would still be helpful. But really, if you think all this might work, you just have to try it and see. :-)
Got our first rain and it was a fully washer and it's draining fine. Yes, there's a little problem with the water pooling in certain areas of the cover, but I can push it to the middle with the pool brush. Not perfect but much better than using a small pump and a brick to draw the water, lol
I’ve had this idea for years! Never did it.
Hi, I live in The Netherlands and there is a good chance my pool will freeze in winter. Can be 3 cm of ice can be 15 cm of ice. Whatever it is: I was advised to drain the pool below the in and outflow holes...Otherwise everything can freeze and be destroyed because ice expands. May be where you live there is no ice and snow? Or is there and if so: what is your experience with all this? Thanks and thank you for your good solution for water on the cover!
I live in Northern Kentucky. Sometimes we can have mild Winters, and sometimes we can have harsh Winters. The top of my pool will normally freeze during winter, but it has never caused a problem. As I showed in my video, I use a small volleyball with most of the air taken out to allow expansion for freezing. There are other devices commercially available that can be used for the same purpose. The drain itself has never had a problem with ice that forms around it. I think you should be okay.
Amazing idea 👍🏽
Hi Ed could you let me know what type of pool you have and what you think about the quality. I am planning on purchasing a 12-foot round pool for my family here in CA. Thanks!
I have a standard 24' round pool. It has a stainless steel panel for where the skimmer and water return come through. It has held up for 23 years so I guess the quality is ok. :-)
GREAT VIDEO! I already installed the drain as per your vid the only question/ concern i have is about the pvc. You mention to make sure its very tight.
I have an oval pool and can't get the pvc to run along the inside very tight. The are few spots where pvc is pressed up against inside pool but other spots its about 1/2 inch.
Would this create problems for draining? Lastly, in your video it looks like your drain in slightly lower then pool cover, which would create a pitch to help direct the water. So is it lower? If yes, did you add water after you were done?
Thanks for doing this video. I look forward to not having clean the water off after it rains.
Thank you very much! I have never installed this on an oval pool, so I am sorry that I really don't know how well it would work with that.
When I installed this drain in the video, I let the water drain down to the very top of it. When I put the cover on it does appear that the cover is slightly above the drain. I did not add any extra water. However, over time the water can evaporate from the pool through the cover. I do add water from time to time to bring the level back up to the level of the drain.
Very awesome idea! Do you buy a new cover every year or reuse the cover?
Thank you! I re-use the old one. You just have to get the drain hole placed over the drain in the right spot when you put it on after the first year. After you lay it on the pool, it is not hard to rotate or move it slightly into the right position.
Thanks for the reply! I have a 16x32 oval pool and the cover is always a real pain to put on. I just had a cover custom made so I don’t think I’m going to cut a hole in it yet. Maybe in a few years though. I’m definitely saving the video for future reference.
Is there a reason you used 1 inch thin wall PVC rather than three quarter inch thin wall pvc?
There is no particular reason. It just seemed like it would be an appropriate size for the job.
My rails are plastic, do you think that will make a difference? It is very windy where I am. I am in southeastern KY.
As long as they are strong I don't think it will matter. But of course I don't know for sure.
What about snow and 10s, -10s temps in January?
Well, I have not had -10s, but maybe negative single digits. I do hear some occasional load popping in extreme cold temperatures. I figure it might be the frozen ice on top shifting up slightly. But I have not seen any damage.
Question, i have large trees above my pool, that drop leaves, that i regularly have to remove from my cover. Do you think this sort of system would still work or would it get clogged too easily?
I am trying to determine if this would be an option or to just create the pvc tent for the cover (im in the midwest where we get all the weather).
I'm not sure if this would work well for you with lots of trees/leaves. The only thing I can tell you is that if you use this method, you will need to keep the drain clear of the leaves. I have pine trees around my pool, so I do have to clear pine needles from time to time, but I'm sure I don't have to do it as often as you would.
Try a mesh leaf net over the regular cover
I've got leaves too and I'm opting out of the drain idea but I and going to put a net below and above my pool cover.
I will fill the pool before taking the pool cover off. I am in FLORIDA and last yr my water & chems dehydrated. Pool in the sun 85% of the days...I can't keep this pool. No leaks but it's become a money pit this yr.
@@mattkennedy6115 That’s what I do until all the leaves fall by mid November and then the leaf cover comes off before we get frost.
Is that a solid or permeable pool cover
It is just a regular pool cover you get at the pool store. I think this one was the one with a 3-year warranty. So it is a solid cover, but some water does seep up through it and evaporate, so the water level does usually go down slightly has the winter season goes on.
Ed Fessler thank you
Dig it...still good idea
Just found the video, hopefully your still around answering questions. Do you have any issues of the drain freezing? Living in Indiana and wondered if that is an issue.
Here in Kentucky we had very cold temperatures for a couple weeks last winter. I did notice very loud popping from the pool area from time to time. My theory is that it was moving the drain return up slightly I. The pool wall as it was freezing. Not ideal by any means but didn't seem to do any real damage. I will loosen it and slide it down again. I'll have to think about it for a little while to see if I can come up with any ideas to make that situation better.
Brilliant!
great, I am adding a screen maybe?
A screen for the drain? I think it would clog up.
@@edfessler yes it would, but I would clean, or make a very short hose, I have two trees need the pool and the leafs would clog the hose.
Please do mine !! Thanks!
Please mine too, Shawn thank you for the idea
What about ice and snow. Also The drain pipe needs to be flexible there is gust too much movement over the winter.
Just let the ice and snow accumulate, it does just fine. If you make the pipe too flexible, it will want to float and the drain will want to rise out of the water and raise the cover. It works well using the pipe.
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