Hmm, interesting. I started racing on the oval tracks in 1985. Started on a speedway bike and had to organize flattrack stockbike racing in New Zealand because there was no flattrack stockbike class running in this country, I had limited knowledge of how to set up a flattrack bike so I took my experience from riding a speedway bike and applied it to my flattracker, after talking to a lot of older race guys, I came up with my own design for a flattracker, first it had to be low to the ground, much like the speedway bike and the steering rake had to be changed, stiffer rear shocks. I'm still racing that bike today and is very competitive with the 450s. The bike I used was a 1979 xr500a. Mind you, it has had serious motor improvements as well.
Excellent! Thanks for doing this segment. We had a speedway class in Michigan (AMA district 14) dirt track series in the early 2000's. I and my brother Dan Crawford rode it. Most tracks were loose half miles but some 1/4 mile car tracks. The only contradiction I have is the idea that the speed way bike is not as good on a rough track vs the Rotax. If you are FAST, the speedway bike goes through the rough much better that the Rotax framer. It's because of the gyroscopic effect of the big flywheel and the fact that the rider is almost standing. If you are not going really fast, it is the most evil handling thing God ever created!
When berry brigs came here he rode a yamaha 250 twin. Speedway frame and wheelsthink it was at the astro dome. Back then 250’s were the bigest you could run. There was a video of the race on utube at one time, not sure if it is still there.
We have a local shale oval, about 400m, where they run Flat Track and Speedway. The speedway bikes run circles around the flat trackers (from the middle of turn two they are gone). However, as he said, doing more than 4 rounds on a speedway bike in competition is something few people can do. A Speedway track with clay content getting too grippy usually sends drivers not used to that straight into the barrier, as they can't turn the bike. Another thing: Horsepower in speedway is ... they are more worried about getting the power down, and most times tuning the engines down, than actually making the most power. It's also not uncommon for the pros to have a dozen engines with different cam and carb set ups in stock and choose for the particular track. The engines also go into complete service like every third race. While you can theoretically (the top tuners won't supply you) buy a top engine for 8000 $, you need at least half a dozen of them to even compete on the pro level. And expect to need at least 5 - 6 chassis a year - per circuit. The pros run 3 to 4 circuits a week all over Europe. The Long track bikes are a bit of a different animal and that's where the "stronger" engines (getting close to 80 hp) are used. They have a bit longer frames than Speedway bikes, rear suspension, two speed gearbox (but shift only once, right out of the tapes), 21 inch rear tire and about +- 110 mph top speed on tracks up to 1000m and different surfaces. They also don't go as sideways and are not as exhausting to run (hence why you will find quite a few drivers over the age of 35 in it - speedway not so much). What they do looks quite similar to how the dirt track racing looked in the early days in the US or when you run on loose soil. They also race sidecars. Long track as it's popular in Germany and France: ua-cam.com/video/iklA1oRtjUY/v-deo.htmlsi=26GKGl5bKMsVFu8J ua-cam.com/video/iUhzCgrAD38/v-deo.htmlsi=7JkNol4UxV8-W7W9 To give you an idea how big the speedway GP is: ua-cam.com/video/JisEp8tN-KY/v-deo.htmlsi=REvdgT7NkuWSmVGn This might also be of interest to you: Flat Track and Speedway in Europe on the same track / the same weekend: ua-cam.com/video/iqUJ_PElDmo/v-deo.htmlsi=a-7Uo1uMVttQKvMA ua-cam.com/video/7rwNCDCEnSk/v-deo.htmlsi=pvczEg820XnLgydU
In between the two are longtrack bikes which look like speedway bikes but with rear suspension and a two speed gearbox. Longtracks are 1km/0.62miles and loose surfaced like a speedway track. Very popular in Germany.
We played with flattrack in high school day but never seriously. Now with xtreem flattrack picking up speed me an some buddy's jumped in head first. We are all five over 60 in age. Lol I built me an xr750 clone just because I always wanted one an it has worked out like a dream. First time out was a double weekend an I ended up with 5 first place plaques somehow. Now I just got a 500cc speedway bike an have a first place main event! Needless to say I'm not running with any pro guys. I am proof that you never too old to chase a dream!
Wow I've just started flat track racing over here in New Zealand got into it because I could not afford to ride speedway but still loving it with my 2015 CRF 450 flat track parts are so hard to get here it is so painful 😖
my 1969 Suzuki TS-250 set up for local not AMA TT track racing had a 21 in front wheel with trials tread something like this speedway machine also i had a Carlisle rear similar to this bike. amazing that i had a similar set up 50 years ago.
Though some 50 years since I raced speedway. Brakes are dangerous! Speedway is very close to each other. Sometimes body contact. So applying brakes would make riders crash into each other a lot. Probably lock wheels to. With compression rate around 15 to 1 and overall gearing about 9, you have good engine braking. Speedway is very physically demanding. A motocross friend tried my speedway bike. He said that one speedway lap was much harder than a motocross lap.
Yes on the old ones. The modern ones has dry sump. Those engines don't need much oil circulating. Something like 2 drops per second to the crank and less to top end. Churning oil around steals horsepower.
@@FlatTrackFactory there are some "one of a kind" tracks for the long track bikes over a mile long, but they are on grass and not really oval. Most long tracks are between 600 and 1000 m.
I know the rotax 600s were very popular in the 80's/90's, but less so now. And the chassis were always someone else...Knight, J&M, Trackmaster, etc... Whatever type that frame is, the gas tank suggests a honda motor.. So why are you referring to the flat trackers as "Rotax"? Seems that most now are honda, kawasaki, or KTM.
Yep, that's a Honda in the video. I race a J&M framed Rotax, and it's featured on the channel often, so that's why it was mentioned. They are still raced at the semi-pro/outlaw level and can still be competitive on any given night.
Hmm, interesting. I started racing on the oval tracks in 1985. Started on a speedway bike and had to organize flattrack stockbike racing in New Zealand because there was no flattrack stockbike class running in this country, I had limited knowledge of how to set up a flattrack bike so I took my experience from riding a speedway bike and applied it to my flattracker, after talking to a lot of older race guys, I came up with my own design for a flattracker, first it had to be low to the ground, much like the speedway bike and the steering rake had to be changed, stiffer rear shocks. I'm still racing that bike today and is very competitive with the 450s. The bike I used was a 1979 xr500a. Mind you, it has had serious motor improvements as well.
Excellent! Thanks for doing this segment. We had a speedway class in Michigan (AMA district 14) dirt track series in the early 2000's. I and my brother Dan Crawford rode it. Most tracks were loose half miles but some 1/4 mile car tracks.
The only contradiction I have is the idea that the speed way bike is not as good on a rough track vs the Rotax. If you are FAST, the speedway bike goes through the rough much better that the Rotax framer. It's because of the gyroscopic effect of the big flywheel and the fact that the rider is almost standing. If you are not going really fast, it is the most evil handling thing God ever created!
It's a bicycle with a huge motor. Thanks for the interesting viewing
O'Neill is the man. Love the detailed explanations. Would love to try the dirt jet-ski myself.
When berry brigs came here he rode a yamaha 250 twin. Speedway frame and wheelsthink it was at the astro dome. Back then 250’s were the bigest you could run. There was a video of the race on utube at one time, not sure if it is still there.
I've got two Weslakes in the shed. A Solo and a longstacker ( Solo + extended wheelbase + two speed gearbox + twin shocks at the back).
We have a local shale oval, about 400m, where they run Flat Track and Speedway. The speedway bikes run circles around the flat trackers (from the middle of turn two they are gone). However, as he said, doing more than 4 rounds on a speedway bike in competition is something few people can do. A Speedway track with clay content getting too grippy usually sends drivers not used to that straight into the barrier, as they can't turn the bike.
Another thing: Horsepower in speedway is ... they are more worried about getting the power down, and most times tuning the engines down, than actually making the most power. It's also not uncommon for the pros to have a dozen engines with different cam and carb set ups in stock and choose for the particular track. The engines also go into complete service like every third race. While you can theoretically (the top tuners won't supply you) buy a top engine for 8000 $, you need at least half a dozen of them to even compete on the pro level. And expect to need at least 5 - 6 chassis a year - per circuit. The pros run 3 to 4 circuits a week all over Europe.
The Long track bikes are a bit of a different animal and that's where the "stronger" engines (getting close to 80 hp) are used.
They have a bit longer frames than Speedway bikes, rear suspension, two speed gearbox (but shift only once, right out of the tapes), 21 inch rear tire and about +- 110 mph top speed on tracks up to 1000m and different surfaces. They also don't go as sideways and are not as exhausting to run (hence why you will find quite a few drivers over the age of 35 in it - speedway not so much). What they do looks quite similar to how the dirt track racing looked in the early days in the US or when you run on loose soil. They also race sidecars.
Long track as it's popular in Germany and France:
ua-cam.com/video/iklA1oRtjUY/v-deo.htmlsi=26GKGl5bKMsVFu8J
ua-cam.com/video/iUhzCgrAD38/v-deo.htmlsi=7JkNol4UxV8-W7W9
To give you an idea how big the speedway GP is:
ua-cam.com/video/JisEp8tN-KY/v-deo.htmlsi=REvdgT7NkuWSmVGn
This might also be of interest to you: Flat Track and Speedway in Europe on the same track / the same weekend:
ua-cam.com/video/iqUJ_PElDmo/v-deo.htmlsi=a-7Uo1uMVttQKvMA
ua-cam.com/video/7rwNCDCEnSk/v-deo.htmlsi=pvczEg820XnLgydU
Great comparison. Love learning about both sports!
Glad you enjoyed!
@@FlatTrackFactory I'd love to learn more about the upper leagues like AFT and FIM Speedway GP.
love to see a top speedway race a top AMA flat track racer. and vice a versa!
Me too!
In between the two are longtrack bikes which look like speedway bikes but with rear suspension and a two speed gearbox. Longtracks are 1km/0.62miles and loose surfaced like a speedway track. Very popular in Germany.
Thanks! I'll have to look that up.
We played with flattrack in high school day but never seriously. Now with xtreem flattrack picking up speed me an some buddy's jumped in head first. We are all five over 60 in age. Lol I built me an xr750 clone just because I always wanted one an it has worked out like a dream. First time out was a double weekend an I ended up with 5 first place plaques somehow. Now I just got a 500cc speedway bike an have a first place main event! Needless to say I'm not running with any pro guys. I am proof that you never too old to chase a dream!
Very cool!! Keep at it, man. Thanks for commenting and telling your story.
Wow I've just started flat track racing over here in New Zealand got into it because I could not afford to ride speedway but still loving it with my 2015 CRF 450 flat track parts are so hard to get here it is so painful 😖
Absolutely love Speedway Belle Vue Ace's ♣️🏁
my 1969 Suzuki TS-250 set up for local not AMA TT track racing had a 21 in front wheel with trials tread something like this speedway machine also i had a Carlisle rear similar to this bike. amazing that i had a similar set up 50 years ago.
Very cool! Maybe someday I will try one.
Speedway ! ... end of conversation
Love to watch both sports, but speedway bikes smell better!
Though some 50 years since I raced speedway. Brakes are dangerous! Speedway is very close to each other. Sometimes body contact. So applying brakes would make riders crash into each other a lot. Probably lock wheels to. With compression rate around 15 to 1 and overall gearing about 9, you have good engine braking.
Speedway is very physically demanding. A motocross friend tried my speedway bike. He said that one speedway lap was much harder than a motocross lap.
I'd love to try speedway. Looks like a real thrill.
Total Loss oiling?
Yes on the old ones. The modern ones has dry sump. Those engines don't need much oil circulating. Something like 2 drops per second to the crank and less to top end. Churning oil around steals horsepower.
Longtrack bike would blow off the rotax all day long and definitely 6 times every Sunday. On grass, on shale, even on a solid serface.
On what size tracks? Short track? 1/2 mile? TT's? Miles too?
@@FlatTrackFactory there are some "one of a kind" tracks for the long track bikes over a mile long, but they are on grass and not really oval. Most long tracks are between 600 and 1000 m.
I know the rotax 600s were very popular in the 80's/90's, but less so now. And the chassis were always someone else...Knight, J&M, Trackmaster, etc...
Whatever type that frame is, the gas tank suggests a honda motor..
So why are you referring to the flat trackers as "Rotax"? Seems that most now are honda, kawasaki, or KTM.
Yep, that's a Honda in the video. I race a J&M framed Rotax, and it's featured on the channel often, so that's why it was mentioned. They are still raced at the semi-pro/outlaw level and can still be competitive on any given night.