Your videos helped my old school gas engineer father pass a gas safe inspection, i passed my gas a year ago and feel confident in would pass an inspection with the info in your videos 👌👌👌
Hi Tom, your videos are brilliant for explaining the ever changing rule for gas engineers. Keep up the great work. With regards to CO alarms in kitchens what are the rules if the kitchen has a gas cooker and sealed gas boiler? Thanks
When carrying out a flue flow test I always have a cup of water with me, if for some reason the smoke pellet starts to come back into the room I can extinguish the pellet and reduce the amount of smoke in the room.
What tape you used for the gas pipe on the fire was it a closer tape. Also on cooker can't you just gas rate all 3 parts I.e the hob, oven and grill at the same time if it allows you too.
What i do now is. For me to do a cp12 now the property must have only a boiler thats all one appliance only, no fires no cookers no wall heaters. And the landlord pays for a service on the boiler aswell. And i charge i think a very reasonable 95 quid
Wow very interesting video 📹 👏 as you are the master of the master 🙌 😀 just a quick question I have the worcester bosch new boiler with colour screen and have megaflow tank for hot🔥 water and 7 radiators and under flooring heating in the kitchen which they used plastic pipe for under flooring heating the question is what and which INHIBITOR TO USE ? as the bolier is working on radiator and under flooring heating as some one said you have yo to use special inhibitor ? Which one ? Please kindly help me on this 🙏 thank you
Wouldn't you also check combustion readings on the cooker and grill using your analyser? I noticed you put n/a for the combustion readings when it came to that part on the cooker. Thanks 👍🏽
Hi Derek, thank you for making this video, very useful, I am a council Tenant, recently the council installed new boiler and central heating , but they didn't install Carbon monoxide detector. it is necessary to install carbon monoxide detector or not.
Thank you very much for the video is very helpful. Please I am new qualified gas engineer I would really appreciate if you can do a video regarding the gas analyser reading when are good and not. Thank you.
May i ask when carrying out a CP12, when it comes to gas fires, if the MI's are not present how does this work? would it be Ar as technically you cant check something that you dont have info to check against?
checking safety devices on boiler are you not testing pr valve and i did not see you check its termination, and also i did not see termination of condense pipe
Hi, Derek, thank you very much for making this video, really informative, just want to be clear on dates, if the previous certificate expires in one month time do you add that one month on new certificate and make it 13 months valid time? Second question, I work for council, council only provide boiler, tenants buy there own cookers or fire, what happens in this case, do we have to check cookers and fires like you did or just visual inspection, may I know where I can find this information. Desperately waiting for your reply, once again thank you very much for the video and I will watch this few more times.
Like I say in the video you have 2 months grace so the report can be 2 months early and still keep the same expiry dates and if the cooker and fire are the tenants you will still need to visually inspect the tenants appliances you can find the information in appendix 5 of igem/g/11
Hi Tom, I’m guessing when you took the fires Inlet pressure you only had the fire going as the inlet pressure was higher at the appliance than when all appliances were on at the meter? Just to confirm
And when you’ve done the boilers Inlet pressure you’ve got 18.5mbar. When you tested this was the other appliances on, they must have been ? Aswell to add to the first comment, you said the fire needed a 20mbar inlet pressure, but if all the appliances were on the fire wouldn’t have its 20mbar inlet pressure required ?
@@tomkatgastraining thanks for the quick reply Tom really appreciate it. So if an installer has left condensate pipe going out of external wall not connected up to drain would this be flagged up on the cp12? Should it just be an advisory or a fail?
@@jct4111 a cp12 isn’t a pass or fail. If it has been installed incorrectly but isn’t dangerous you just note it but obviously if it’s dangerous you would need to act on it.
Hello Derek,what if you find a HMO landlord who has locked the gas meter ECV with a padlock and key, that the tennants have no access to turn of in an emegency gas or CO leak.
So looks like every service will put back the current certificate 3 months each year so you can never rely on setting a time of year for it to be done. After two years you are back with a winter service.
Ariston boilers do not require screws please always read manufacturer instructions before you start putting screws in flues you could be creating an AR
the company i work for which is not a small company doing council work has engineers doing cp12 without ckr1. they say quote its tenants and only appliance its recorded as visual and cooker are covered by core qualifications
As you know you require ckr1 to carry out a cp12 with cookers let’s hope your company isn’t audited by the council and gas safe and found out because they will lose the contract.
My big issue with CP12's is so called Gas Engineers being in and out and charging £30... I wish customers were made more aware of the time and safety checks involved .
£30???? I charge that for knocking on your door lol Jokes aside if cp12 are done correctly they should cost 75-100 each but the downwards pressure on price (caused by stingy landlords) has made doing certs a in and out job.
Nice video. Haven't used paper CP12 for at least 10+ years. Normally copies are unreadable after 2 years. Also as you have shown that your faults etc look messy and it's always a case of scribbling additional notes which you are limited to do due to space on certificate. I use digital software by gas engineers software. Far superior and professional than the cheap paper version. You get quality technical support. Certificates/invoices/ estimates are always updated as and when required. Best thing is customer gets minimum 14 notice of certificate due. Plus if carried out within 2 month period the certificate gets automatically adjusted 👌 Each to there own but certificate gets emailed as soon as your ready with attached invoice. OK that aside. Derek you try and run a vaillant /Worcester Bosch for minimum of 15 mins on your analyser just not gonna happen in my experience. I agree with other comments about £30 charges. It's for the engineer to explain to the Landlord that what he's going to get and especially if any faults are there will be notified and not ignored by those on the in/out style services. Great to see you taking new fellas along with you so they learn on site experience but I presume that's at there cost 😉😂 Anyway a brilliant detailed video as usual 👌
Sorry meant to add. In the fault section 1-5. I understood that they corrosponded to the appliances installed above🤔 So I would of put that note re tamper seals after the last appliance 👌
I know companies getting subcontractor who are gas safe asking them to go to 4-6 properties a day out of 1 house in 15 mins. Pure bs money making scheme for the company. Dont work for any small business as all they want to do is make as much money as possible from u and u will be the one liable not the main contractor
Thank you Tom for another good video, however, I am Jerry and I do not totally agree with you on the FSD issue on a cooker. I am aware fo what it stated in TB0015, however on the list of where it applies it mention "multi-tenancy" and "multi-owner occupancy". As a gas engineer I insist on all cookers/hobs having FSD as standard regardless of age of appliance or date of installation. My reasoning for this is, i don't know what the landlord might decide to do with their tenancy strategy, the landlord/landlady/agent may decide to rent per room as this brings in more rental income for them and reduce the cost for those using/sharing the facilities. That is multi-tenancy so, hey, does this then trigger the new standard? So I think it is prudent to stick to a simple rule that instill safety and safe practices, as you cannot predict the action of others. In this case I think FSD as standard regardless.
Doesn't pressing the button just test the battery and not the sensors! I have not been testing them for that reason. I have recently just bought the CO spray for testing them but I'll be checking with landlords if they want me to test (additional cost). Same with the smoke alarms got the spray for them as well.
I thought the same as you, but you can actually do a report without having cookers,fires etc. You just can't carry out any repairs or rectify problems.
You can’t carry out a landlords report on appliances you are not competent to work on. It’s not that you can’t repair them it’s you are not qualified to work/ test safe operation of them. So the landlords report would be void if you worked on the appliances not qualified for. You could also be breaking the regulations.
@@tomkatgastraining I thought that myself, I was in college last week and they disagree. They said you can check but not work on I like your videos, great work 👍
I thought that 02 readings on intake had to be 20.6 or higher so how did you just blame traffic and being in town when the flue could have been damaged? Not an expert just asking
Unfortunately with these gas safety checks, estate agents want the bare minimum and want to pay bare minimum, also look at these companies wanting to pay a subcontract peanuts for them
ALL GOOD, BUT ANY ENGINEER REMOVING A FIRE LIKE THAT AND DOING ALL THAT FOR A LGSR, WOULD CHARGE £150 , HERE IN LONDON I KNOW GUYS THAT DO LGSRS FOR 25 QUID
If you are referring to the boiler not being screwed Ariston boiler flues are not screwed. Always read the manufacturer instructions to see how the flue should be installed because you could be AR a boiler when you shouldn’t be.
To any would be gas engineers watching this, blowing out the flame to test the safety device of an appliance is not the correct way to carry out this test. You should be turning off the appliance and waiting for the audible click within the specified time frame. This eliminates an unknown volume of gas entering the room which could be an unknown size and an unventilated space.
If any would be engineer listens to you they would not understand how safety devices work or how much gas you need for an explosion. Turning off an appliance does not check the safety device.
You’re absolutely incorrect, turning off the gas control knob and waiting for the audible click within the specified time frame is the correct way to carry out this test.
Of course you are, it doesn’t matter how the flame is extinguished, the safety device should still isolate the gas supply once the flame has gone. The difference is, if you turn off the control knob to the appliance you aren’t letting unburnt gas flow out hoping the device will activate in the correct time frame. Once the gas valve has closed/you’ve heard the click you can turn the control knob back on and no gas should be coming out of the injector. I’m struggling to see how you can’t understand this, it’s a basic test.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Your videos helped my old school gas engineer father pass a gas safe inspection, i passed my gas a year ago and feel confident in would pass an inspection with the info in your videos 👌👌👌
Thank you very much for all your videos they helped me pass my domestic gas resits and I was the 1st to finish 👌
Top man 👍🏻
This man is so helpful a Godsend! Thanks pal!
Just assessed my portfolio today, good luck guys. 😉👍
Hi Tom, your videos are brilliant for explaining the ever changing rule for gas engineers. Keep up the great work. With regards to CO alarms in kitchens what are the rules if the kitchen has a gas cooker and sealed gas boiler? Thanks
Excellent video. Thanks Derek
Really thank you Derek, waiting for next video
Mohamed Hassna
When carrying out a flue flow test I always have a cup of water with me, if for some reason the smoke pellet starts to come back into the room I can extinguish the pellet and reduce the amount of smoke in the room.
What tape you used for the gas pipe on the fire was it a closer tape.
Also on cooker can't you just gas rate all 3 parts I.e the hob, oven and grill at the same time if it allows you too.
What i do now is. For me to do a cp12 now the property must have only a boiler thats all one appliance only, no fires no cookers no wall heaters. And the landlord pays for a service on the boiler aswell. And i charge i think a very reasonable 95 quid
Wow very interesting video 📹 👏 as you are the master of the master 🙌 😀 just a quick question I have the worcester bosch new boiler with colour screen and have megaflow tank for hot🔥 water and 7 radiators and under flooring heating in the kitchen which they used plastic pipe for under flooring heating the question is what and which INHIBITOR TO USE ? as the bolier is working on radiator and under flooring heating as some one said you have yo to use
special inhibitor ? Which one ? Please kindly help me on this 🙏 thank you
Can you tell me the regs with unvented cylinders in rented properties .
Wouldn't you also check combustion readings on the cooker and grill using your analyser? I noticed you put n/a for the combustion readings when it came to that part on the cooker. Thanks 👍🏽
Cooker are not mandatory for analysing. You only need to analyse a cooker if you have concerns
@@tomkatgastraining OK thanks pal 👍🏽
Hi Derek, thank you for making this video, very useful, I am a council Tenant, recently the council installed new boiler and central heating , but they didn't install Carbon monoxide detector. it is necessary to install carbon monoxide detector or not.
Yes it is
You might already have one.
some smoke alarms have them built in, it will say on smoke alarm
Thank you very much for the video is very helpful. Please I am new qualified gas engineer I would really appreciate if you can do a video regarding the gas analyser reading when are good and not. Thank you.
I already have done check out the channel
@Tomkat Gas Training Thank you very much. I found it 3 parts
Is a cp12 required after an annual service in a private res ?
No just rented properties
Thankyou.
May i ask when carrying out a CP12, when it comes to gas fires, if the MI's are not present how does this work? would it be Ar as technically you cant check something that you dont have info to check against?
Microbe hoses tend tobe less than 1/2 inlet which has me pondering, I usually pass them but I usuly fit 1/2 if I'm fitting the cooker
checking safety devices on boiler are you not testing pr valve and i did not see you check its termination, and also i did not see termination of condense pipe
No need to test the PRV and yes you need to check it’s termination and the condensate
Hi, Derek, thank you very much for making this video, really informative, just want to be clear on dates, if the previous certificate expires in one month time do you add that one month on new certificate and make it 13 months valid time?
Second question, I work for council, council only provide boiler, tenants buy there own cookers or fire, what happens in this case, do
we have to check cookers and fires like you did or just visual inspection, may I know where I can find this information.
Desperately waiting for your reply, once again thank you very much for the video and I will watch this few more times.
Like I say in the video you have 2 months grace so the report can be 2 months early and still keep the same expiry dates and if the cooker and fire are the tenants you will still need to visually inspect the tenants appliances you can find the information in appendix 5 of igem/g/11
Thank you so much, I will print it from igem.
Hi Tom, I’m guessing when you took the fires Inlet pressure you only had the fire going as the inlet pressure was higher at the appliance than when all appliances were on at the meter? Just to confirm
And when you’ve done the boilers Inlet pressure you’ve got 18.5mbar. When you tested this was the other appliances on, they must have been ? Aswell to add to the first comment, you said the fire needed a 20mbar inlet pressure, but if all the appliances were on the fire wouldn’t have its 20mbar inlet pressure required ?
Hi is the condensate pipe checked as part of cp12 if it’s externally routed? If so how is it checked?
The condensate pipe would need a visual inspection to see if it is installed correctly and it’s not allowing CO into the house
@@tomkatgastraining thanks for the quick reply Tom really appreciate it. So if an installer has left condensate pipe going out of external wall not connected up to drain would this be flagged up on the cp12? Should it just be an advisory or a fail?
@@jct4111 a cp12 isn’t a pass or fail. If it has been installed incorrectly but isn’t dangerous you just note it but obviously if it’s dangerous you would need to act on it.
Quick observation on the fire….
MIs to be read on the coal layout in case of incomplete combustion 👍🏻
Hello Derek,what if you find a HMO landlord who has locked the gas meter ECV with a padlock and key, that the tennants have no access to turn of in an emegency gas or CO leak.
In a none emergency it’s AR and in an emergency it’s ID
My CP12 says "no earth bonding visible" What is earth bonding? Do you need it for a purpose built flat?
Can you explain why housing associations want to do their check 3 months before it is due?
So it gives them time to put problems right and they don’t loose any time on the certificate.
So looks like every service will put back the current certificate 3 months each year so you can never rely on setting a time of year for it to be done. After two years you are back with a winter service.
Sir there is no self thread screws on flue and flue elbow
Ariston boilers do not require screws please always read manufacturer instructions before you start putting screws in flues you could be creating an AR
the company i work for which is not a small company doing council work has engineers doing cp12 without ckr1. they say quote its tenants and only appliance its recorded as visual and cooker are covered by core qualifications
As you know you require ckr1 to carry out a cp12 with cookers let’s hope your company isn’t audited by the council and gas safe and found out because they will lose the contract.
Hi derek if the landlord only owns the boiler and the tenant owns the cooker can the gas engineer do a cp12?
The cp12 must be done on the boiler and visual inspection of the cooker noting on the cp12 that it’s owned by the tenant
Cheers derek👍
My big issue with CP12's is so called Gas Engineers being in and out and charging £30... I wish customers were made more aware of the time and safety checks involved .
£30???? I charge that for knocking on your door lol
Jokes aside if cp12 are done correctly they should cost 75-100 each but the downwards pressure on price (caused by stingy landlords) has made doing certs a in and out job.
I charge £80 not worth it otherwise I would be there for a couple of hours for 3 appliances
Nice video.
Haven't used paper CP12 for at least 10+ years.
Normally copies are unreadable after 2 years.
Also as you have shown that your faults etc look messy and it's always a case of scribbling additional notes which you are limited to do due to space on certificate.
I use digital software by gas engineers software. Far superior and professional than the cheap paper version.
You get quality technical support.
Certificates/invoices/ estimates are always updated as and when required.
Best thing is customer gets minimum 14 notice of certificate due. Plus if carried out within 2 month period the certificate gets automatically adjusted 👌
Each to there own but certificate gets emailed as soon as your ready with attached invoice.
OK that aside.
Derek you try and run a vaillant /Worcester Bosch for minimum of 15 mins on your analyser just not gonna happen in my experience.
I agree with other comments about £30 charges. It's for the engineer to explain to the Landlord that what he's going to get and especially if any faults are there will be notified and not ignored by those on the in/out style services.
Great to see you taking new fellas along with you so they learn on site experience but I presume that's at there cost 😉😂
Anyway a brilliant detailed video as usual 👌
Sorry meant to add.
In the fault section 1-5. I understood that they corrosponded to the appliances installed above🤔
So I would of put that note re tamper seals after the last appliance 👌
I know companies getting subcontractor who are gas safe asking them to go to 4-6 properties a day out of 1 house in 15 mins. Pure bs money making scheme for the company. Dont work for any small business as all they want to do is make as much money as possible from u and u will be the one liable not the main contractor
Thank you Tom for another good video, however, I am Jerry and I do not totally agree with you on the FSD issue on a cooker. I am aware fo what it stated in TB0015, however on the list of where it applies it mention "multi-tenancy" and "multi-owner occupancy". As a gas engineer I insist on all cookers/hobs having FSD as standard regardless of age of appliance or date of installation. My reasoning for this is, i don't know what the landlord might decide to do with their tenancy strategy, the landlord/landlady/agent may decide to rent per room as this brings in more rental income for them and reduce the cost for those using/sharing the facilities. That is multi-tenancy so, hey, does this then trigger the new standard? So I think it is prudent to stick to a simple rule that instill safety and safe practices, as you cannot predict the action of others. In this case I think FSD as standard regardless.
You mentioned displaying the safety cert. Most certs are digital so that won't happening .
Landlords also do not have gas fires .
Doesn't pressing the button just test the battery and not the sensors! I have not been testing them for that reason. I have recently just bought the CO spray for testing them but I'll be checking with landlords if they want me to test (additional cost). Same with the smoke alarms got the spray for them as well.
You are correct but like I say it’s not our responsibility at the moment it’s solely the landlords
@@tomkatgastraining My concern is soon as you tick that yes box you are now liable for it as you have stated it's working correctly!
@@UA-camHero666 no we are not so don’t worry
I thought the same as you, but you can actually do a report without having cookers,fires etc. You just can't carry out any repairs or rectify problems.
You can’t carry out a landlords report on appliances you are not competent to work on. It’s not that you can’t repair them it’s you are not qualified to work/ test safe operation of them. So the landlords report would be void if you worked on the appliances not qualified for. You could also be breaking the regulations.
@@tomkatgastraining
I thought that myself, I was in college last week and they disagree. They said you can check but not work on
I like your videos, great work 👍
@@jonhunt8107 how can you check something without working on it. Have a read of appendix 5 of igem/g/11 you might find you was correct 👍🏻
Hi Derek, is it the duty of the engineer or the landlord to provide a copy of the safety check to the customer within 28 days? Cheers
Landlords
great stuff but std flue on elbow missing screws
Not all flue systems require screws
I thought that 02 readings on intake had to be 20.6 or higher so how did you just blame traffic and being in town when the flue could have been damaged? Not an expert just asking
If you haven’t got 20.6 o2 outside the house how do you expect to get more than 20.6 in the flue.
love the spelling ahaha good job we all have the quols aha keeep the vids comin'
I forgot to add, 40 quid extra for a co alarm, the property very rarely has them and if the do they are out of date
Quality mate 💪
Unfortunately with these gas safety checks, estate agents want the bare minimum and want to pay bare minimum, also look at these companies wanting to pay a subcontract peanuts for them
I normaly recommend an electric fire for rented property .
No problem preaching, but always best to get real as to what really is happening.
Mr negative again. Mate how do you get through live being so negative doesn’t it get boring and depressing
Derek mate just let it go over your head. Maybe this fella should stop watching your helpful videos 👌😂
🤘😎🤘
Muff fitter😆
The earth bonding may be visually satisfactory but there may be no continuity to the met .
Any decent landlord gets rid of gas fires . .
ALL GOOD, BUT ANY ENGINEER REMOVING A FIRE LIKE THAT AND DOING ALL THAT FOR A LGSR, WOULD CHARGE £150 , HERE IN LONDON I KNOW GUYS THAT DO LGSRS FOR 25 QUID
Wow seems like a lot of work for £40
Marcin Masalski
Flue screws
If you are referring to the boiler not being screwed Ariston boiler flues are not screwed. Always read the manufacturer instructions to see how the flue should be installed because you could be AR a boiler when you shouldn’t be.
MP 06/02/23
To any would be gas engineers watching this, blowing out the flame to test the safety device of an appliance is not the correct way to carry out this test. You should be turning off the appliance and waiting for the audible click within the specified time frame. This eliminates an unknown volume of gas entering the room which could be an unknown size and an unventilated space.
If any would be engineer listens to you they would not understand how safety devices work or how much gas you need for an explosion. Turning off an appliance does not check the safety device.
You’re absolutely incorrect, turning off the gas control knob and waiting for the audible click within the specified time frame is the correct way to carry out this test.
@@nje657 no it’s one of the ways not the correct way and as I said you are not testing the safety device turn off the gas.
Of course you are, it doesn’t matter how the flame is extinguished, the safety device should still isolate the gas supply once the flame has gone. The difference is, if you turn off the control knob to the appliance you aren’t letting unburnt gas flow out hoping the device will activate in the correct time frame. Once the gas valve has closed/you’ve heard the click you can turn the control knob back on and no gas should be coming out of the injector. I’m struggling to see how you can’t understand this, it’s a basic test.
@@nje657 I don’t struggle to understand you say it’s the correct way but it’s one of the test but I will teach and you can continue to preach.
Next episode how to breathe 😂
For NTCS I just put the fault found then this is customer advice only