If we’re not a Christian nation then how do you explain that it was AMERICAN Archaeologist Indiana Jones who discovered the Ark of The Covenant AND the Holy Grail?
Someone else may have got here before me, but I think it is worth pointing out the distinction between 'Politics ' and 'politics'. The word comes from 'of the people ', which means that anything done in community is, at one level 'political ' but not necessarily Political!
This is a really important conversation right now. Most Christians who are actually Christian Nationalists don’t even realize they have bought into this ideology. Jesus did not overthrow the Roman government. He is our example of how to influence and share God’s love and ways with our neighbours in a natural way, not a top-down conquest way. If we have a Christian government that enforces Christian laws, we will be forcing people into a biblical way of life much the same as Muslims want to bring Sharia law into nations. We can influence and lead the culture from the ground level, but never should try grabbing for power over everyone in the nation. Christian Nationalism is wrong at best and very dangerous at worst.
Why do you have such a negative view of Christianity? What makes you think that Jesus did not overthrow Rome? In time, Rome was taken over by Christendom just as prophesied in the book of Daniel. What is wrong with a Biblical way of life? With no Bible, the nation sinks into anarchy much as we are heading now. Your view of secularism is not working, without you realizing it, you have bought into secular ideology.
Matthew 20:25-28 (why the Church can never be the government is because if that happens you lose the Church) But Jesus called them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions use their authority over them. It must not be this way among you! Instead whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Daniel 2:21. So when the Lord establish the Kings of Israel and disposes the ones who went away from his teachings are wrong. This turned Israel into a jew nationalism. The founding fathers prayer for hours to be inspired by the Lord to establish godly laws and right. So isn't that being Christian nationalism from the beginning.
Except OUR politicians are SUPPOSED to be our SERVANTS, therefore Christian politicians and Christian nationalism absolutely fits this verse word for word.
@@sigmacane305This is the Old Testament. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Christian nationalists want to build a worldly kingdom. That is the opposite of Christianity.
Are you planning to have Stephen on to give him the opportunity to explain/clarify/defend some of his points that concern you, or will you just bring on someone to critique him? It just seems weird to critique a book by a committed believer without giving the author a chance to respond...
@@noahfletcher3019 I appreciate the brotherly love displayed in the comment here. Even if the view is accurately described, to just attack it seems unfair. Why not give the author the chance to defend his view from your attack? Sean seems only interested in one side of the discussion.
The bottom line, which Stephen Wolfe states plainly in the Introduction is that he doesn't know how to interpret the Bible, so his "Political Theory" based on "natural principles" is intended to lay a foundation for God's "Political Theology." This is basically the sin of Eve, rejecting God's revelation so she could decide for herself what is good and what is evil. Like Boethius in "Consolation of Philosophy," his "reasonable" philosophy must precede or prove the authority of God's Revelation. Thus, Wolfe quotes Aquinas more than he does the Bible.
57:00 verses that pushback against Christian nationalism, the biggest one that I can think of is “so you are a king then?“ “my kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my followers would fight.”
About a half hour earlier, still at the last supper Jesus said, "and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one...And they said "Lord, look here are two swords." And He said to them, It is enough" (Lk 22:29,36,38). We need to integrate all of that with Luke 22:49 before reaching a conclusion: "Lord, shall we strike with the sword." This is the origin of the "two-swords" theory or debate about how Jesus directs church and state to interact to maintain Godly order in a civilized, Christian society. He is apparently referring to his disciples, or at least some of them bearing the sword of judgment as in Romans 13:1. This comports with Daniel's prophecy of how Jesus exercises dominion on earth immediately after His ascension to the right hand of God: "THEN the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey him" (Dan 7:13,14,27). This is clearly referring to the "church age," immediately following Jesus ascension and enthronement. But the sword is not to be used as a means of conquest, as when David was rebuked for numbering/registering the men of war. And when Peter was rebuked for cutting off the servants ear. But it is dangerous to deny the sword of God's judgment in a Court of law as exercised by Christians in luke 22: 36, Romans 13:1 and Daniel 7:18,21,27, etc.
@@robertdavidson9674 any idea who wrote luke, cos it wasn't anyone called luke. and no one wrote anything about jesus until he was long gone, no one has a clue what jesus did or did not say.
Eric Metaxas makes a strong plea for Christian involvement in American politics and civil disobedience in his book, "Letter to the American Church" by comparing the apathy of the American Church today, to the apathy of the pre-WW II church in Europe, and out of the apathy an extreme dissonance was created between being a Christian (as defined by exerting our "salt/faith/morality" into national affairs as did Dietrich Bonhoeffer did), and taking a passive stance toward Christianity's involvement in the growing tyrannical influence of Hitler's political philosophy. Yet when I consider the amount of text in the New Testament that is devoted to the insertion of a Christian's faith in the political and social affairs of Rome, which is miniscule by comparison, and the amount of energy Jesus devoted to changing Roman government policy, or leading a civil disobedience, I realize that this question is not an easy one to answer, and I'm pretty sure I don't have a clear path.
But guys: unlike Rome, our republic is designed for the citizens to be involved. So what would Jesus and Paul want from us today? My opinion: they would want us to fight for what is right, while always keeping The Kingdom of God first. And it isn’t an easy balancing act.
@robertstephenson6806 I'm not sold on Christian Nat, but you seem to be arguing against your own straw positions. First, no one is arguing that Jesus or disciples were political activists (actually some were zealots when called by Christ). Second, who is calling for rebellion (except perhaps some alt-right or libertarian-types just like the agnostics on the left)? The theories being floated by Christian Nat. is to 'vote in' or legalize a biblical framework of laws for governance and to put constraints on moral pluralism, which I agree on some level. And once that is done, will you comply? (I'm joking of course, but many can be hypocritial about Rom 13 applied to their own ideas of cultural mandates).
@@fbcpraise That is false. The citizens of the Roman empire were actively involved. Part of the reason why Christians throughout the empire were viewed as a danger to the state is _because_ they refused to get involved in politics. What you think they would want is not based on truth. Christ Himself told Pilate that His Kingdom is NOT of this world. Why do "Christians" refuse to believe Him?
From the article cited. The section on the Christian Prince: The Christian Prince Finally, Wolfe sees the need for a Christian nation to be led by a civil magistrate whom he calls the “Christian prince.” The prince is not merely a good leader or a capable administrator or even a pious Christian. He serves as a source of national pride and inspiration. Wolfe describes him in these terms: “Having the highest office on earth, the good prince resembles God to the people. Indeed, he is the closest image of God on earth. This divine presence in the prince speaks to his role beyond civil administration. Through him, as the mediator of divine rule, the prince brings God near to the people. The prince is a sort of national god, not in the sense of being divine himself, or in materially transcending common humanity, or as an object of prayer or spiritual worship, or as a means of salvific grace, but as the mediator of divine rule for this nation and as one with divinely granted power to direct them in their national completeness.” (p. 287-288) “The [Christian] prince can adorn himself and his residence with Christian symbols…as crosses were once painted on royal armor. His military or militia, which defends a Christian people and their church, can be designated ‘soldiers of Christ‘” (p. 296-297) “Earlier, I identified the prince as the mediator of civil rule, and I described him in god-like terms, following Scripture…The prince is an image of Christ to his people” (p. 309) “we should pray that God would raise up [a Christian prince] from among us: one who would suppress the enemies of God and elevate his people; recover a worshipping people; restore masculine prominence in the land and a spirit for dominion; affirm and conserve his people and place, not permitting their dissolution or capture; and inspire a love of one’s Christian country.” (p. 323) Having sketched three key components of the Wofle’s main argument, I’ll next discuss some of his book’s positive elements. This sounds more like antichrist to me than anything biblical.
That is why we don't keep a president for more than 8 years because like some we know well their ego greed power want more power. And IMHO that's what's wrong with the political right it's all about a person some worship and he has such an ego he thinks all things should go his way already but he wants that power power power We should fellowship but just one person on earth to control and tell us what to do is crazy to me. And if someone wants that there is countries you could move to and have that. Then America could stay a democratic Republic and worship as we understand our Bible without hurting others.
Bingo! Papal Romanism is the beast in Revelation that came out of the sea. Sadly, for the US, she is seen as the 2nd beast that came out of the earth with the two lamb like horns yet speaks just like the first beast Papal Romanism, a dragon. The lamb like horns are symbolic of our current constitution. Our 1st amendment is one example. God said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. How can individuals exercise their own conscience if there's no separation of church and state. In essence, Papal Romanism is antichrist and the mother harlot, mystery Babylon, the woman (church) that rides the beast (secular power). American Apostate Protestantism is the false prophet and the daughter harlots that make the IMAGE unto the first beast Romanism, which is reunification of church and state. Papal Romanism ruled from 538-1798 and was the persecuting power and has been ruling from the US it's Romanism's hidden proxy. They lied, they hid history from us. God's people will be persecuted again. Wake them up. Shout it from the roof tops. Let no man decieve you no longer. Go and see for yourself.
Remember, Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Salvation comes by the grace of God through our faith in Christ alone. It is the dragon (lucifer) who gives this Romanism her seat, power, and great authority. Romanism says our MARK of ecclesiastical authority is SUNday. Revelation 17:18 The woman (church) that thou saw who is also a city (Vatican City) reigns over all the kings of the earth. A few things happened people went astray from God's Word and today many don't read or abide in God's Word and commandments. Secondly, while we were busy fulfilling our fleshly desires with all the new entertainment that came out of the 20th century the rulers of evil were able to keep us distracted and deceived, they took control of most everything, including historical records and educational institutions. You and I were deceived hopefully, as God says. How long will you slumber? How long will you simple ones be simple? Things will move quicker and quicker. Trust no man. We must know who God/Christ is and what the Word actually says. Many will be deceived. I hope you pass this on. We have work to do.
Jesus taught the Pharisees, who rejected His law: "For God said, 'Honor your father and mother,' and 'He who speaks evil of father and mother let him be put to death..'" (Mt 15:4).
@@robertdavidson9674 ??? How about citing Jesus' teaching on enforcing His commandments using political power which is what "Christian Nationalism" is about?
@@mriconoclast13 The power of the sword for enforcing justice cannot be avoided and is Biblical, according to Romans 13:1-4ff. It will either be wielded by Christians to enforce God's perfect justice or by unbelievers to enforce something other than God's perfect justice (Dan 7:13,14,28). Take Exodus 20-24, for example, the Mosaic Covenant. Some sins have no penalty attached, so they are NOT crimes to be enforced by the civil government (Ex 22:21 to Ex 23:31). Most of the rest of Exodus 21 to 22:20 have penalties attached, making them crimes that ARE to be enforced by Civil government. God's terminology for this is not "Christian Nationalism," but rather "The Book of the Covenant" (Exodus 24:7), consisting of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 and their case law illustrations in Exodus 21-23. Exodus 24 is the covenant commitment to obey the Ten "Words" and the "Ordinances" (Ex 24:3), which God considers to be one "Book of the Covenant" (Exodus 24:7). Exodus 21:22 & 30 introduces the idea of "victim's rights" and the monetary "ransom," which is an element of mercy in all but one of the death penalty laws that allows for a one-time monetary substitute instead of death. With consent of the victim, advised by the judge, the ransom may be offered or accepted (Ex 21:22). This foreshadows the death of Christ for our sins. Premeditated murder is the exception. This is basically two-strikes and you're out, according to Deut. 17:9-13. This is the solution to the gang problem, but Christians reject it. The Puritans did not seem to understand the ransom concept, based on what we read in the Massachusetts Body of LIberties. They did however list about 15 death penalties with Bible references. Most of the colonies did this with the exception of Rogue Island, which did not base it's laws on the Bible. The U.S. Constitution is modeled on the government of Rogue Island.
sean and his buddy apologists don't care about jesus, they never talk about jesus, all they do is try to convince people that atheists are evil and that god didn't genocide and condone slavery, apologists are paid to be liars, they don't care about what jesus taught.
Thank you for this discussion. "Christian Nationalism" brings vastly different things to mind between my politically liberal sister and me, based on the priorities, content and conditioning of our primary news sources and algorithms. Progressive atheists are more politically active than Evangelicals because they (Progressives) consider themselves more enlightened and honest: 'religious people' are deceived and deluded, they believe, into grabbing political power for their god; they (Progressives) must, therefore, desperately "out-grab" us, to keep us religious folk from ruining the country. Since man, for Progressives, is the measure of all things, politics is all they've got for attaining/obtaining the world they think they want.
Christians literally do not do anything positive whatsoever, they just fight every little change in society (and praise themselves for positive things someone else has done).
It just boggles my mind how people, who don't learn anything, ever, who worship ignorance, who support and admire all kinds of abusive con-men in politics, who wreck the environment, who refuse to even do something so miniscule and insignificant as wearing a mask to show that THEY LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOR, these idle and completely useless people think of themselves as being superior. 🙄
Distortion, which got 4 likes. SMH This country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION not a state Church or religion, which was why they left England. The founding fathers were not all Christians, some were Theists. So what's your point?
@@DMWB57 95% of the founding fathers were orthodox Christians, the other 5% were other secs of Christianity including Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. They wanted the government to stay out of their religion, that’s not saying they wanted no religious influence on government. As a matter of fact when the laws of this country were built it was the pastors who critiqued those laws and would judge the laws based on what the Bible said about them. The American revolution started with revival around the country. The United States is a Christian nation founded by orthodox Christians and meant for Christians, as you can see when we get away from our Christian roots as a country freedom can be quite disastrous.
So what? I saw a PragerU poll the other day asking who people think would be the best Founding Father to come back and be a leader today... meaningless! The time we live in now is insanely different from their time. They would be floored with all the changes, and maybe their personalities and beliefs would be altered as well.
@@wet-read what are you talking about? If their values were changed they wouldn’t have been able to do any of what they did. They never thought in a million years they were going to win the revolutionary war, and by the way if you want to look at a revolution with different values/ secular values just look over to the French Revolution that took place at almost the exact same time and see what a secular revolution looks like.
I agree, religion has caused more war than territory, resources or covetry. Holy texts in particular need to be banned and burned and outlawed entirely.
@@robertdavidson9674 ...as long as I tell you what god says, sure...past that yes. Your more than welcome to let some group of men (as we've seen numerous times some pedophiles) interpret to you how YOU should live, be my guest; but I will not stay with you..there is no religion higher than truth sir.
@@robertdavidson9674 most definitely , and you have too, the constitution specifically puts god second to humans, i have more rights than god. and no one seems to recognise god is a dictator, you all bang on about marxism, but god is stalin, he kills people with no trial just for disagreeing with him, what kind of dumb people are you? you don'rt vote god in and you can;t vote god out - that's the definition of dictator, god is no better than stalin. just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that, and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became a naturalised american purely because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian, the US is officially secular. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
I'm glad to see you discussing this. I'm as non-woke as they come but am pretty concerned about this phenomenon I'm the church as there is quite a bit of idolatry and bad theology mixed in with some segments of 'Christian Nationalism '. Especially out in the sticks where I live.
Christian Nationalists bow down to idles? I've never seen any evidence of that. What is the "Bad theology" That has to do with Christ being king of kings?
@@josiajones9774 The golden Trump statue. They have their own bible regarding Trump. These people really think Trump is the new messiah, sent by God. It's both blasphemous and insane. I'm all for freedom of religion, and I'm also for freedom from religion.
@@josiajones9774 CN is sharia law dressed up. religists are so dumb they will fall for any con, trump said it out loud "you won;t have to vote again" meaning "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again", take a long hard look at project 2025 cos it plans to remove ALL the rights americans have enjoyed BECAUSE you are a secular country, it's sharia law dressed up as christianity - i urge everyone to read it cos it'll be the biggest mistake any country ever made to allow it to go into practice.
I’m looking forward to Shenvi’s upcoming book as it sounds like a one-stop shop against CT and CRT, etc. But is there such a book in support of CT or CRT that I could read? I want to read both sides but I don’t want a 20-book reading list!
The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American, & American Crusade: How the Supreme Court is Weaponizing Religious Freedom. Those 2 books are by Andrew Seidel. He is a 1st Amendment constitutional attorney. Side note: I'm glad your open to learning the otherside's position. Kudos to you!
OK, he starts off by saying that Christian nationalism is too nebulous an idea to write about? But that doesn’t stop anybody from writing against “wokeism” 21:07 “we” so is Neil saying he’s a Christian nationalist? He’s warning us that social justice didn’t differentiate between good and bad ideas in its coalition for lack of a better word. But doesn’t seem to acknowledge that the criticisms of Nach Christian nationalism are saying the exact same thing about Christian nationalism already. That Christians have not differentiated between the good and the bad and they have instead just adopted a co-belligerent stance, regardless of how bad the worldview is some of the subgroups. Also, if it comes from canon press, run far away. Doug Wilson is rejected even by most reformed because of long held aberrant theology. Read his stuff about slavery. It’s abhorrent.
Neil's point at 26:00 is often what I find (is a term made up as a new perjorative/ad hominem first or is there a new political/culture group forming and claiming the 'right'). Whether the left really discovers a movement or their label becomes embraced as a self-fulfillling prophecy is hard to say. I think it is a trend of the modern social media realm. But we have the same issue with people's view of the term 'evangelical', Christian, etc. We at some point have to be willing to demand terms be defined and clarity be reached.
And at one point "Christian" was a slander against the early Church. According to Neil, he should be shocked to see believers claim that title. Not surprisingly, Christian is still slandered, misunderstood, and ill-defined today, yet we still claim it and still stress clarity of the moniker.
read project 2025, it couldn't be clearer, it wants to remove ALL of your freedoms and instate a dictatorship, it's there in black and white. CN is no different, it promotes sharia law, it's not "christian" at all. you all bang on about evil communists, CN is communism. trump wants to be stalin.
I don't need to watch the video to tell you the answer about "Who is a Christian?", or "What does the Bible mean?" or "What would Jesus do?", or any other such question is always "It depends on who you ask." Pick your verse and your interpretation of that verse. Almost none are absolutely clear and unambiguous - Thou shall not kill: self-defense? Capital punishment? War? Abortion? Usually people solve the ambiguity by giving themselves the status of ultimate accuracy, often informed by their community or self interest. Even with a title or study and dedication, still the Pope is just another opinion holder. Contracts, textbooks, specifications, etc try hard to be clear and unambiguous and sometimes fail, but almost all do better than the Bible. If it was, there would be only one denomination. So the Bible ends up as a crystal ball, or a mirror. Any position can be supported by choosing verses and interpreting them a certain way.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of of the (Republican) party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” ~ Barry Goldwater - The Father Of The Modern Conservative Movement
christianity has become islam, christian nationalists want sharia law - read project 2025, it's designed to make trump another putin, he said it out loud "you won't need to vote next time" what he means is "you won't be allowed to vote next time"
We have to consider the intentions of the Founding Fathers. They were pretty smart. Although they had their disagreements, they gave us not a Christian nation but a nation built on freedom but heavily influenced by Christian thought. To steal from Franklin, “if you can keep it.”
They gave lip service to the Enlightenment, but thats about it. There was no christian thought there, except how to keep religion out of government. They did what all modern "christians" should be doing, and practicing behind closed doors, and keeping their religion out of the public square.
the problem is god never speaks for himself does he, there's always some nut job fronting for him. are YOU the one who is qualified to speak for god? is sean? who is? trump?
@@HarryNicNicholas Where'd you get that God never speaks for Himself? Are you one that let's human scientists speak about nature and the physical realm and any other realm that we live in? Those nut jobs are always proven wrong, and/or change in their minds, oh it's definitely not lying when they call it a fact beyond reasonable doubt and then other facts prove their original facts wrong.
Maybe this is a basic breakdown. The Christian church has become complacent and worldly, so therefore its effectiveness in America is severely limited. We have removed ourselves by homeschooling, country club church, Christian colleges. But will legalistically trying to legislate morality instead of coming out of our comfort spaces and assist the poor and needy and the least of these. Secular humanism, which knows more about the Bible than many christians, sees the hypocrisy of it and is calling us out for it.
close. the real problem is that god doesn't exist and consequently defending him is hard, and the more affluent people become, which is what everyone wants, then the less they need god. anyway god doesn't exist, so it doesn't matter what religists say or do, he;'s going going going.
@@HarryNicNicholas I guess chance told you that God doesn't exist. What other assumption is it? Really there's been plenty of logic applied and mathematics applied to the idea that there is a God. As a matter of fact there's plenty of logic and mathematics that have been used to show the very real possibility of god. But it's the myopic and limited view of the world that atheists have that doesn't allow them any wisdom or understanding to see that reality.
51:05 “desire to group with our kind” yes this and the other quotes from the author about “your people“ tells me he is a kinist like Rushdoony & Gary North. Kinists will insist they aren’t racist, but that’s what it amounts to. Rushdoony was credibly accused of the same and some of the stuff he said about adoption allowing “substandard stock“ (or something along those lines,) to flourish was really truly awful.
The constitution of Zambia & Samoa declare themselves to be a ‘’christian nation'’...Would that fall under Christian Nationalism? Saying CN's are racist is very narrow minded.
read project 2025 cos it's not christian in the least, it's christianity turned into islam, it promotes sharia law. voting for christians is voting for a dictatorship. read what it says, it will outlaw freedom of speech. when trump said "you won't have to vote again" he meant "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again"
Confusion concerning a definition? CN is defined simply by this: As a nation let's stop doing things that make God angry !!! That's it. Getting there is another question. It cannot be imposed. American has to become Christian again first.
sorry but you're ignorant of what CN is, it's sharia law, it's nothing christian at all, it's a bunch of men who want to ruin lives and enjoy being despots with total power. the idea is to install a dictatorship where you can't vote anymore and where those freedoms you yanks are so proud of are taken away, and back comes the inquisition. if it weren't evil embodied i would love for your country to install project 2025 so you would find out first hand what ignorant fools you are, but really, CN is the WORST thing that could happen to the US. don't do it, you'll regret it.
At the 20:05 mark he mentions “racist ideas.” Define these “ideas,” and what makes them “racist,” please. It’s way to common to automatically dismiss any credibility on just about anything these days when it’s categorized as having associations with “racist ideas.” Too vague.
As long as self-appointed or citizenry-elected, or government appointed…(or by any other means of attaining positions of power)…when human kind is involved there is opportunity for misuse, abuse and violation of individual autonomy. We only need to look at history, or this mornings news reports.
Alfred the Great and his descendants adopted Exodus 20-24 word for word into the Constitution of Anglo-Saxon England for almost 200 years and enjoyed great freedom. That restitutionary form of government was replaced by a retributionary form by the Battle of Hastings in 1066.
not really, god's word doesn't count for spit anywhere in the world. and thankfully each poll that comes out shows god isn't all that anymore anyway, seems that believers are now neck and neck with atheists and the "nones" god is losing the swimsuit round of the beauty pageant - pew research and gallup.
Complex and Important topic and becoming more so every day. I hope you continue to explore the topic. At the heart of separation of church and state is the preservation of both liberty of conscience and liberty to practice any religion or none at all. Jesus offered this freedom . And I hope we all recognize that the mark of the beast is a violation of liberty of conscience. What I would like for people to ponder for a moment is the symbolic lamb-like a beast that speaks like a dragon in the book of Rev. This is the second 'beast' or rather power/ nation in revelation that comes out of the land (Rev. 13). Unlike the first beast (power) in revelation who comes out of the water or rather comes out of "many peoples, nations, languages, and tongues." Remember, the bible itself defines its own symbols as the secret language of prophesy is meant to be understood not by surface readers, but by those who diligently study. Many protestants of past ages, and EVERY reformer understood that the first beast of revelation was Papal Rome: A persecuting church/state power. To take the heat of the RC church, two more theories for intrerpreting prophesy arrose on the scene: preterism followed by futurism. (FYI both new interpretations were developed by Jesuits; Louis del Alcazar and Fransisco Ribera ) to deflect the identity of the persecuting Church/State. The second beast arrises after the deadly wound (1798 exile of the Pope and end of Papal power). With that as a background, what is a power that arose, not out of many " people, languages, nations and tongue"s but rather arose from an unpopulated land, had lamblike or Christian features, and yet will speak like a dragon? Also after 1798? America. in the end this beast (plolitical power) “causes to worship"; That is it makes laws regarding worship. It’s not logical that a secular power forces worship. Only a very conservative movement would force people to worship. And this forced worship is the mark of the beast. If you study marks and signs in scripture, you will see that they are religious practices that denote who you worship. It comes down to authority. The issue will be man’s law verses God’s law. And all who live before Christ comes will have this test placed on them. (futurism and preterism have lulled people into a false sense of security that these things do not pertain to them and don't deserve thier study). “Here are they that keep the commandments of god” In context, this is the description of the remnant and they are contrasted to those who receive the mark. In other words, the mark will be a practice of worship opposed to the law of God. Based on my understanding of biblical prophesy ,I don’t trust any movement that wants to harness the power of the state to enforce their dogmas. We need to attract hearts and minds as disciples of Christ. Blessings
you talk nonsense, but basically christian nationalism isn't christian at all, it's no different to sharia law. if you want to lose all the freedoms americans are so proud of, CN will do it for you.
@@HarryNicNicholas You say this as someone not versed in biblical prophesy. but I forgive you. We can agree that Christian Nationalism is not Christian as Christ respects our choices to believe or not to believe, to pracitve biblical Christianitry or not to.
I really appreciate this theologically and practically sound treatment of this subject. Once Constantine declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. All these issues came into play.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that, and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became a naturalised american purely because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian, the US is officially secular. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
Christian nationalist believes we should push the country to follow God's law. What is wrong with that? Like Prophets did in Israel. What this country did before. Christians need to stop being so afraid to speak your beliefs.
The Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty has started a group "Christians Against Christian Nationalism". Most Baptists have separation of Church and State among their statements of faith. The BJC would be a good group to include in this conversation. Similarly, David French, Russell Moore, John Fea and Phil Vischer. Julie Roys also.
Christian Nationalism reminds me of going in the direction of Sharia Law or a Theocracy. Render to God what is Gods and to Caesar what is Caesar’s. And yes, Racism is woven throughout the movement. I’m just shooting from the hip here. It also reminds me of what Constantine did to Christianity. We know what that led to. Jesus said that his followers don’t fight because his kingdom is not of this world. He laid his life down for us. He died for us. Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for a friend. Jesus said that his Kingdom was not of this world.
Do you think this nation was founded in Shariah Law? CN is not the same thing, it only means that we will be ruled by something, all they want is to be ruled by the law of God, by Christian principles. In other words what would you prefer, transexual nationalism or Christian nationalism, but it is from the bottom up, not by force. It seems like people are more afraid of God’s law than of pagan law. God is kinder and more compassionate than we are. David said that God’s law is like honey to his lips, he loved God’s law. I think the problem is that Christians have become more pagan than Biblical.
@@mamimalista7924How on earth can you argue in good faith that the United States was founded on Christian nationalist principles, when the Founding Fathers explicitly included the establishment clause in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution? Please explain how they were so hell bent on implementing Christian principles that they specifically included in the constitution, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion…” ???
@@Adam-mj5hl congress is not the same as the individual states. The states were able to legislate based on religion. The Federal government was not supposed to have as much power as they have now. The laws of the states represent Christian nationalism.
Brother Sean, you and Neil both have a track record of good faith analysis of important issues, thank you for that. That said, consider this: CN opponents are looking at CN itself as the "problem", but what if CN itself is not the problem, just a symptom? The real question is why is CN so attractive currently among disenfranchised males (and patriarchal women who hunger for masculine, biblical leadership)? Why are so many male pastors so effeminate? Why are churches affirming female pastors and sinful sex norms in membership? Why are men and young men especially, avoiding church? Where is male discipleship? Why are secular, godless ideologies making such in roads in the evangelical church, like CRT, ESG, egalitarianism, emotional mysticism, outright witchcraft like the enneagram? Why is the church so worldly? Has the church's pre-mill, dispensational, "holy huddle hang on until Jesus comes" theology (which is only 100 years old in the history of the church) caused the church to be passive and fearful? A hide-my-talent-in-the-ground disobedience? Is CN the "problem" or is there something much much worse happening to the church? And is CN just a good faith attempt to right the ship? THAT approach to "CN", by looking at the church itself, would bear much more fruitful conversation for all Christians. Also, there are many CN advocates who are simply trying to live out a biblical faith in the private and public sphere (as salt and light SHOULD BE) -- as some others have mentioned in the comments, it would have been very fruitful to have one of those. Not Shenvi, no personal slight to him, but this was an echo chamber discussion.
@@dubyag4124 1. Who are these "effeminate" pastors? What do you mean by "effeminate"? Do you think this is really that big of a problem? 2. Churches affirming sexual sin and having women pastors are not the same thing at all. What percentage of churches do you believe affirm sexual sin? Egalitarianism, while I don't agree with it, has some arguments in it's favor whether you think they're valid or not (I don't). I don't think it's in the same category as affirming sin. If you disagree with egalitarianism, just go to a church that also disagrees with egalitarianism. There are quite a few. 3. All over social media I see young men being coddled because of this or that. If young men don't like what's happening in the church, shouldn't they join a church and try to affect change from within rather than complain it all over social media? You're creating victims instead of overcomers. 4. Male discipleship is in the church. Young men aren't getting it because they are avoiding church and complaining on social media. 5. Why are secular ideologies making their way into the church? Because Satan is always working against the church (but failing). Ever read the new testament? This is not a problem unique to our time.
@@JW-tg1nn Effeminate pastors is the water we breathe. One must work very very hard to find a pastor who will speak truth in love without apology or nuancing it to death. Examples? Pick any: Andy Stanley (gay sin affirming) Gavin Ortlund (Evolution affirming) Paul Tripp (woke) David Platt (cries about the 3rd world, but lives in a mansion) Basically any charismatic pastor that appeals to women. Are there "toxic" hyper masculine pastors on the fringe, of course. But the point is the mainstream platformed Christian "man"/pastor is effeminate. And young men do not see leadership in the Church. They see man-pleasing, which ironically, is woman-pleasing. "Happy wife, happy life" is a lie from the pit of hell.
When will Evangelicals stop being so shallow? Has someone set a date when they will stop waging war against phrases and platitudes that were NEVER even usefully defined? If someone has an answer to this, please let me know so I can order champagne and brie.
Regarding the question asked by Rob Mangham: "How does our natural (and therefore good according to Wolf) desire to group with our own kind square with God's desire for every tribe and every nation to be grouped together in heaven." I'm not sure exactly what he means by "grouped together in heaven". It appears that the questioner thinks that there is some tension between our desire to be with our own kind and the homogeneity of heaven. I don't think that heaven will be ethnically or nationally homogenous. We are told that every tribe, tongue and nation will be there. We are told that the kings of the nations will bring tribute to Jesus in Jerusalem. If there will be kings, they will have subjects. So biblical descriptions of heaven strongly imply that we will continue to live in ethnolinguistic/national groups in heaven, each with its own rulers (that's us because we will rule with Christ). The idea that heaven will be a ethnically or linguistically homogenous society is a popular modern conception of paradise, but it's at odds with biblical descriptions. Perhaps if we understood that our ethnic identity is eternal then we would cease to see it as being necessarily at odds with our fundamental oneness in Christ. I think the prophets often point to the ethnic diversity in God's kingdom as one of its glories.
As a Catholic Integralist, I really like Christian Nationalism tbh of course, I do not agree with the protestantism part, but I really like it, I prefer that kind of government over the secularist, masonic and liberal governments like the ones we have today. The Josias and New Polity are really good websites to learn about Catholic political philosophy or The Byzantine Catholic UA-cam channel has good videos about the topic
You are obviously in congress with Satan. Jesus kingdom is not an earthly kingdom, and to embrace power and influence, as Jesus was tempted in the desert, is to embrace Satan. You lie to yourself and others when you say you know Jesus, you do not know Jesus, you only know Satan.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with christian nationalism whatsoever. At all. Matthew 20:25-28 details "gentile rulers" and how christians ought to be servants. Considering how American politicians are supposed to be public servants, shouldn't that mean America is perfect for Christian nationalism?
in your perfect world where people are exactly how you desire them to be, sure, but we don't live in your perfect world and serving is the last thing on any given politician's mind, which is why America is so great to begin with because of how much limitations the government has to serve their own interests
i can't believe what suckers religious folks are. CN is sharia law dressed up as christianity. either you love your country, which is secular and founded on secularism, or you want to live in russia under a dictator, cos that's what CN really is, it's not christian at all, it's sharia law, it's an excuse to implement what hitler4 was after in 1939 - trump said it himself "you won't need to vote again" cos what he means is "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again" i would laff my head off if you landed trump again as president cos then you'd find out exactly what you voted for - a dictatorship instead of a democracy - but the price is too high. god is a dictator for goodness sake, you can't talk about freedom and say god is supreme - you can't vote god out if you find out he's not as nice as you thought. you really need to rethink your comment, you're asking for trouble if you think CN is benign.
Matthew 20:25-28 us talking about the Kingdom of God, not worldly government. Yes, it would be good if those in government were more into servanthood than power or their own personal agendas, but worldly government is not the context here. Also, have you ever hear the saying that "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it?" Do you know the history of the church and government for the 2000+ years since Christianity was born? It's a history of one Christian group persecuting another, religious wars, forced (and probably fake) conversions because of sword or social pressure, executions because maybe you believe in believer baptism and the country you are in doesn't,, prison for someone preaching a form of (now acceptable) Christianity that does not agree with the ruler's ideas (such as happened in the "Christian city" under Calvin) not to mention the Spanish Inquisition, pogroms over the Jews, the Catholic sacking of the Easter Orthodox Constantinople during the Crusades . It has never worked. That is because no matter how much of a servant a leader wants to be (and most national leaders don't even attempt such a thing), he/she does not have the wisdom to rule - justice is not an easy issue. Not that we shouldn't do our best, but it and the topic of theology are not easy. Why? Because we are not God and we don't have God's understanding. In fact, why did the Pilgrims come to North America? Because the Christian Anglican government at home wouldn't allow them to free practice their conscience. Why did Quakers come to PA? Because the British government was against them. Why did Catholics come to Maryland? They hoped for a more congenial place to live than England. Why did Roger Williams go to what became Providence, RI? Because the Puritan Christians in MA didn't like it that he became a Baptist, arrested him, took him miles into the wilderness and left him there in the middle of a cold and snowy winter. He only survived with the help of friendly pagan Indians, making his way to what became R.I. where he founded a colony where anyone was welcome. The history of "Christian Princes" is indeed dark, whether pope, king, Puritan or whatever and any future attempts will be dark as well, imho.
To anyone reading the comments. Christian Nationalism IS the book "To My Legionaries" by Corneliu Codreanu. Read it! It is not the Westminster Confession of Faith. It's a simple as that.
CM is sharia law in disguise, don;t be silly. the whole trick is to make you think it's about christianity when it's about dictatorship. it's a bunch of sex starved old men who think they can bring back the inquisition, and if you miss that then you're as ignorant as 90% of the idiots in this comments section. religists are stupid people.
My Aunt's conservative ladies led her to call me a Marxist which I'm so far from. Aunt quit school as a teen and I told her that she is not educated enough to know what a Marxist is. Conversation stopper.
It's either Christ or chaos. If not a Christian nation, then what? A Muslim nation, secular nation (because that's been going great), Mormon nation, etc...?
They mention the founders, but the founders were christian. And based the laws off of christian values. And thst the nation was under God. In my experience that is what most christian nationalists want which isnt bad.
a lot of them were not christian. the constitution is not based on christian values. the constiution says nothing about our nation being under god, but a vague creator. the pledge of allegiance mentions that, but the "nation under god" part was added to fight communism
Are two ideas being confused - Christian Nationalism vs Christian Dominionism? If I understand it, the latter requires that Christians dominate government, and Christian theology define the basis for government.
It seems there is some crossover between those two terms. Listening to the Christian Nationalist they certainly talk about Christians taking over the institution of government, transform society (like mandating Sabbath keeping laws) and turn this wonderful world over to Jesus at His return.
It is my understanding that Christian Dominionism holds two tenets in particular that sets it apart. One, that man hold dominion over the earth, and the right to strip it of all its resources for economic prosperity, because Two, "christians" must bring about armageddon through political means, bringing the rapture, so that all "christian" will avoid the thousand years of hell on earth.. a hell on earth they created by raping the earth of all its natural resources, such as clean water and clean air.
read project 2025. you people are ignorant of what CN really is. it's tedious to have to keep telling people that CN is not christian at all, it's islam in disguise, it's sharia law.
The blending of church and state is more focused on putting the church into the state and not bringing the state into church. Christian Nationalism is using the government to privilege cultural Christianity. Saying laws should be based on Christian values (in this context) means passing laws solely for non-secular purposes and it's usually a virtue signal. I've never heard someone labeled a Christian nationalist for being pro-life or having a traditional view of marriage. It's when someone says "women who get abortions should be executed because abortion is murder and the bible calls for executing murderers and homosexuality should be totality removed from public view" that the term Christian nationalism is brought up.
I call that "christian" sharia law, because its just as bad as what they do in the middle east, something we are suppose to be better than, but really arent.
That assertion is incorrect. The common usage of the term Christian nationalist by the secular press is for every American evangelical who habitually votes Republican.
In the end, nationalism belongs to Caesar. However, even though it's basically a responsibility of Caesar, nationalism has the functionality of protecting people's land, resources and lives on it. The danger is that, if nationalism concept of "this is our land" overlaps between 2 peoples, it will be a "fight to the death" situation. It's now a situation between Israel and Palestine, and between China and Taiwan. In a sense, there should be a neutral zone between 2 beasts, they will fight in the absence of such a neutral zone, that's Ukraine and Russia. They will fight to the death in the absence of such a zone, plus a territory overlap. That's the nature of the beasts.
lol, seems a lot of people aren't so sure. and you should see the latest stats cos everytime some new poll comes out religion loses more followers, atheists are now on pretty much equal trerms with believers, numbers wise. if god is almighty, how can he lose the popularity contest? (pew and gallup - check the numbers for yourself).
I would push back when he says you live in a democracy. I thought you lived in a republic, which I think is better than democracy, for in a republic the individual has inviolable rights for himself, where as in democracy majority rules. Not sayn that America hasn't decayed into democracy, but initially it was created with the ideals of a republic.
@@adamcosper3308 just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that, and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became a naturalised american purely because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian, the US is officially secular. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church? you're remark is ignorant, but ignorance seems to apply to pretty much everyone in these comments and half of your country, you have no idea what CN is really about, all blissfully loving god and crossing your fingers while your country is being turned into another iran. the problem with religists is you love fantasy worlds where you'll be reunited with your pet gold fish in the after life and you have no clue that there is no god, there is no one coming to save you, and this is all you're going to get. i almost wish trump wins and CN is installed to see the look on your face when you realise what you've done.
Doug Wilson, who is over Cannon Press who published The Case For Christian Nationalsim, does at his core, believe that if all the nations fall under Christian laws or headship, Jesus will return and the church will give him the kingdom. It stems from his belief that being a part of the covenant has salvific powers, which would extend to the nations as they become christian.
“ being part of the covenant with salvific powers,…that extends to nations” huh? Is there a way a man can be saved without being personally born again through their faith response to the gospel? The gospel does not need to be politicized because it’s Jesus’ message and He didn’t politicize it whatsoever. He said His kingdom was not of this world.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that, and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became a naturalised american purely because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian, the US is officially secular. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
@@andresullivan6473 My point is that you sound just like a Taliban Islamic fundamentalist who wants their government to adopt Shariah law. The only difference is that you happened to be born in a Western country instead of the Middle East.
Christ said that we should render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's. One of the things that our government (Ceasar) calls for is for us to vote. To vote responsible, we need to study the issue and then seek to find what scripture says about them and the candidates that are running. Then, we should share this information with others and remember to vote.
Thinking of how Islam is the ruling religion in Iran since 1979 helps me understand what Christian Nationalism would be. I do not believe America is Gods Chosen nation.
CN is sharia law in disguise, follow it at your peril. if you want another civil war and people to be divided and fighting each other then go for it, CN isn't about christianity, it's about making trump a dictator and taking away the freedom the US has been so proud of. CN is about people who enjoy other people's misery, it's not about making the country a better place for EVERYONE.
Defining Christian Nationalism...My definition would be a Zealous and Robust participation of Christians in Government...Unlike what we have today which is a reflection of Christian Apathy, Ignorance and Sinful Attitudes toward Government...The Church and State are the only two institutions that the Bible says are God Ordained...The forsaking of Government by the Church in America is a 5 Star Sin...And is the Reason we are being ruled by the wicked...But when the Righteous Rule the people Rejoice...McDowell is just another person in the Pulpit that gets the Bible and God WRONG...Shame on you Sean...Leading God's People Astray...
Christian Nationism is more a populator cultural concept, it is more reactive to the changing of traditional American culture. the accusation of racism is just a progressive slur there is no Christian doctrine that supports it, if a Christian is racist the issue is with the individual or the community they attend
It seems the people who speak of it as "white Christian nationalism" are woke progressives who use it as a pejorative. That isn't fair. I disagree with Christian Nationalism but after many hours of listening to the Christian Nationalists themselves they never mention any racial component. That seems like more of a scare tactic from the left.
Jesus was just a good man who traveled and spread kindness , later people made him out to be someone he was not or claimed to be. He went up against the evil authorities at the time and was murdered for that, just like Martin Luther King and other rights fighters including many women rights fighters.
This is a really great, nuanced discussion. Thank you so much. Wolf’s description of a Christian prince brought two things to mind - the anti-Christ and the recent short film “God Created Trump.” And Wolf’s statements about not being able to truly connect with people outside of your own ethnic group reminded me of Tucker Carlson discussing the disadvantages of diversity and asking why you would want to work with, live next to, etc., someone you have nothing in common with.
No, freedom under Exodus 20-24 during the dynasty of Aldred the Great for almost 200 years prior to the crusade era. 1066 marked the end of Alfred's dynasty and the beginning of the crusade era shortly thereafter.
most of the best universities in this country were founded by Christian theologians and preachers. Unfortunately they sold out through the decades to the father of lies.
I believe the Bible to be true. Inspired by our Father, the Creator, the giver of life. The Bible teaches us to study to show thyself approved. The word of God! Man has turn away from the lord . The love of money, immoral acts, murder , hatred towards others,jealousy, disobedience towards parents. Evil thoughts. Worrying, believing in one self. Selfishness, non forgiving, worshipping idols. We all sin. Being a Christian means to be Christ like. Follow his teachings. The commandments. In the Old Testament, the prophets, those faithful men and women. Neither one the was perfect, they had faith, some tried to do things their own way, and God let them know tooo! It’s the heart. He knows each and every one of us. The whole world. He loves us. Jesus died for the world. So the we may have everlasting life, if we want it. It’s our choice. The church is not a building. It’s the people , followers of Christ. He paid it all. Saten is already defeated. The Holy Spirit is our armor. Received through baptism. Hear, believe confess repent and be baptized. Tin the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word is God. I pray that someone hears.
Have more Christian communists than nationalists. Turn the cheek,give to whoever asks and using the "Good Samaritan " wanting us to accept immigrants who broke Cesars laws to get in. Have Christians focused on supplying material things rather than looking for those poor in spirit.
Neil You are so right God didnt want to give israel a king but they kept asking so they got it and yes even David & Solomon had flaws thats why we seek our own salvation thru the word of God but trump doesnt even seem to know anything about christianity he is so self absorbed and even said he hasnt ask for forgiveness because he doesnt need to.
Kenneth Scott Latourette, in his work A History of Christianity points to the merger of Church and State after Constantine as a key point when corruption entered the church. If we look at the history after that time, including crusades (especially the sacking of Constantinople and persecution of the Jews), the Spanish Inquisition, the religious wars in Europe, it's hard for me to conclude that Christian Nationalism isn't heresy. I'm not saying that none of these folks were Christians, but it is an infection within the Church that brings disrepute on God's name. In his sermon "A Christrocracy", John Leland (Baptist preacher and one of the thinkers behind the First Amendment) called state religion "anti-christrocracy".
Abortion is not in the Bible, there should not be a ban, but have stipulations women are not running around getting abortions. Christian nationalism was in the time of hitler. Trump, vance, heritage foundation to me are dangerous with the christian nationalism, neo-nazi's. Wanting one world religion as christian nationalist. Ty for explaining other types of christian nstionalism.
Playing along with John Lennon here and using my imagination and how a christian nation would play out. Lets say the lawbook started up with the 10 commandments..... the first one there. That would if followed stricktly and punnished change atleast america alot. Second one would that make sure nobody could be idols of any sort? No sportsheroes, no artist heroes no political heroes, no war heroes? I dont know the translations from the original languages, but it seems "unamerican". List goes on, but im already done with this as a viable base for a modern nation.
The way things are in this world the Rapture is on its way and no one wants to be left behind to face the horrors of the tribulation, also this world system is a sinking ship.
Many of the Christian Nationalists (Doug Wilson, Joel Webbon, etc) are not premillenialists... they don't believe in the rapture. They believe that Christians gloriously overcome the world and hand it off to Christ when he returns.. they are postmillenialists. Please go check this out and see if you find it true.
At 1:00 the comments around the right use of power was very good. Pascal speaks of the sort of evil which is the result of good lacking power. In a power centered culture, which has denatured morality, the tendency is to denounce power (I.e. privilege) when we see injustice, but without acknowledging the need for a moral framework to sort through the right or wrong use of power. I very much agree that we need an ideal and a prudential understanding of a Christian society, at the level of the family, church, and the state. Wherever the Church is successful in its missionary endeavors, there will be the question of how Christians should view the use of state power. To ignore this reality is to plan for bad Christian practice in the role as a citizen. I also view Wolf’s vision of the Christian state as questionable, but it’s because I wonder if it truly describes the Christian ideal as tempered by prudence. But I’m encouraged by this discussion because we need more people asking what is Christ’s ideal state in the present time when his kingdom is already here, and advancing, but will not be ideal until he comes. That is the challenge of Christian political theology and too often we capitulate to activism in the face of thoughtlessness and desperation.
@SeanMcDowell What can be said concerning the surmounting sociological and anthropological evidence that Christianity has been the root of so many of the problems in our society? (i.e. homophobia, the rise of nationalism, the Iraq War, and the central banking system and pro-government propaganda peddled in a majority of churches around the US using Paul to justify extremest acts; to name a few).
Sorry. I don't see a connection between TRUE followers of Jesus Christ and any of the things you claim. There's a hijacked form of "Christianity" like goofball pastors Joel Osteen and a host of others. If you're referring to these false teachers, then they aren't to be associated with true followers. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing. A follower of Jesus Christ, while they may appreciate their country of origin, they aren't to be associated with thugs or radical groups who'll burn down buildings to make a point. On the other hand, they'll likely fight for what they believe in, when it's necessary to do so. For example, break into my house, and I will shoot you to protect my family. Will I go out looking for trouble? No. Do you have any questions?
I don’t agree with McDowell about much, but kudos to him for keeping an open comments section, unlike some others.
sure, big deal. he's dishonest and a creep, but the comments section makes up for it.
If we’re not a Christian nation then how do you explain that it was AMERICAN Archaeologist Indiana Jones who discovered the Ark of The Covenant AND the Holy Grail?
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LOL! nice.
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😂 good one.
Someone else may have got here before me, but I think it is worth pointing out the distinction between 'Politics ' and 'politics'. The word comes from 'of the people ', which means that anything done in community is, at one level 'political ' but not necessarily Political!
This is a really important conversation right now. Most Christians who are actually Christian Nationalists don’t even realize they have bought into this ideology. Jesus did not overthrow the Roman government. He is our example of how to influence and share God’s love and ways with our neighbours in a natural way, not a top-down conquest way. If we have a Christian government that enforces Christian laws, we will be forcing people into a biblical way of life much the same as Muslims want to bring Sharia law into nations. We can influence and lead the culture from the ground level, but never should try grabbing for power over everyone in the nation. Christian Nationalism is wrong at best and very dangerous at worst.
amen
Why do you have such a negative view of Christianity? What makes you think that Jesus did not overthrow Rome? In time, Rome was taken over by Christendom just as prophesied in the book of Daniel. What is wrong with a Biblical way of life? With no Bible, the nation sinks into anarchy much as we are heading now. Your view of secularism is not working, without you realizing it, you have bought into secular ideology.
spot on!!!!
Amen
I believe we should take over and not let the secular devil run the country if we can help it.
Matthew 20:25-28 (why the Church can never be the government is because if that happens you lose the Church)
But Jesus called them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions use their authority over them.
It must not be this way among you! Instead whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Daniel 2:21. So when the Lord establish the Kings of Israel and disposes the ones who went away from his teachings are wrong. This turned Israel into a jew nationalism. The founding fathers prayer for hours to be inspired by the Lord to establish godly laws and right. So isn't that being Christian nationalism from the beginning.
Our nation is based on this idea that’s who government positions, cops are all public servants.
Except OUR politicians are SUPPOSED to be our SERVANTS, therefore Christian politicians and Christian nationalism absolutely fits this verse word for word.
@@sigmacane305This is the Old Testament. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Christian nationalists want to build a worldly kingdom. That is the opposite of Christianity.
@@walterchristley4898 Christian nationalists want to build the kingdom of God using the Caesar office.
Are you planning to have Stephen on to give him the opportunity to explain/clarify/defend some of his points that concern you, or will you just bring on someone to critique him? It just seems weird to critique a book by a committed believer without giving the author a chance to respond...
Agree! Stephen or Doug!
Unless they misrepresent Stephen, it's not necessary. Maybe it would be good, though
These type of comments are so stupid. There's no need for a conversation unless there's a misrepresentation of a view.
@@noahfletcher3019 I appreciate the brotherly love displayed in the comment here.
Even if the view is accurately described, to just attack it seems unfair. Why not give the author the chance to defend his view from your attack? Sean seems only interested in one side of the discussion.
The bottom line, which Stephen Wolfe states plainly in the Introduction is that he doesn't know how to interpret the Bible, so his "Political Theory" based on "natural principles" is intended to lay a foundation for God's "Political Theology." This is basically the sin of Eve, rejecting God's revelation so she could decide for herself what is good and what is evil. Like Boethius in "Consolation of Philosophy," his "reasonable" philosophy must precede or prove the authority of God's Revelation. Thus, Wolfe quotes Aquinas more than he does the Bible.
57:00 verses that pushback against Christian nationalism, the biggest one that I can think of is “so you are a king then?“ “my kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my followers would fight.”
About a half hour earlier, still at the last supper Jesus said, "and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one...And they said "Lord, look here are two swords." And He said to them, It is enough" (Lk 22:29,36,38).
We need to integrate all of that with Luke 22:49 before reaching a conclusion: "Lord, shall we strike with the sword." This is the origin of the "two-swords" theory or debate about how Jesus directs church and state to interact to maintain Godly order in a civilized, Christian society.
He is apparently referring to his disciples, or at least some of them bearing the sword of judgment as in Romans 13:1. This comports with Daniel's prophecy of how Jesus exercises dominion on earth immediately after His ascension to the right hand of God:
"THEN the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey him" (Dan 7:13,14,27). This is clearly referring to the "church age," immediately following Jesus ascension and enthronement.
But the sword is not to be used as a means of conquest, as when David was rebuked for numbering/registering the men of war. And when Peter was rebuked for cutting off the servants ear. But it is dangerous to deny the sword of God's judgment in a Court of law as exercised by Christians in luke 22: 36, Romans 13:1 and Daniel 7:18,21,27, etc.
@@robertdavidson9674 any idea who wrote luke, cos it wasn't anyone called luke. and no one wrote anything about jesus until he was long gone, no one has a clue what jesus did or did not say.
Eric Metaxas makes a strong plea for Christian involvement in American politics and civil disobedience in his book, "Letter to the American Church" by comparing the apathy of the American Church today, to the apathy of the pre-WW II church in Europe, and out of the apathy an extreme dissonance was created between being a Christian (as defined by exerting our "salt/faith/morality" into national affairs as did Dietrich Bonhoeffer did), and taking a passive stance toward Christianity's involvement in the growing tyrannical influence of Hitler's political philosophy. Yet when I consider the amount of text in the New Testament that is devoted to the insertion of a Christian's faith in the political and social affairs of Rome, which is miniscule by comparison, and the amount of energy Jesus devoted to changing Roman government policy, or leading a civil disobedience, I realize that this question is not an easy one to answer, and I'm pretty sure I don't have a clear path.
Eric’s propagating of the 2000 Mules movie is counterproductive to the gospel
@@lark8356
It’s a debunked conspiracy theory hypothesis.
Look for yourself.
But guys: unlike Rome, our republic is designed for the citizens to be involved. So what would Jesus and Paul want from us today? My opinion: they would want us to fight for what is right, while always keeping The Kingdom of God first. And it isn’t an easy balancing act.
@robertstephenson6806 I'm not sold on Christian Nat, but you seem to be arguing against your own straw positions. First, no one is arguing that Jesus or disciples were political activists (actually some were zealots when called by Christ).
Second, who is calling for rebellion (except perhaps some alt-right or libertarian-types just like the agnostics on the left)?
The theories being floated by Christian Nat. is to 'vote in' or legalize a biblical framework of laws for governance and to put constraints on moral pluralism, which I agree on some level. And once that is done, will you comply? (I'm joking of course, but many can be hypocritial about Rom 13 applied to their own ideas of cultural mandates).
@@fbcpraise That is false. The citizens of the Roman empire were actively involved. Part of the reason why Christians throughout the empire were viewed as a danger to the state is _because_ they refused to get involved in politics. What you think they would want is not based on truth. Christ Himself told Pilate that His Kingdom is NOT of this world. Why do "Christians" refuse to believe Him?
From the article cited. The section on the Christian Prince:
The Christian Prince
Finally, Wolfe sees the need for a Christian nation to be led by a civil magistrate whom he calls the “Christian prince.” The prince is not merely a good leader or a capable administrator or even a pious Christian. He serves as a source of national pride and inspiration. Wolfe describes him in these terms:
“Having the highest office on earth, the good prince resembles God to the people. Indeed, he is the closest image of God on earth. This divine presence in the prince speaks to his role beyond civil administration. Through him, as the mediator of divine rule, the prince brings God near to the people. The prince is a sort of national god, not in the sense of being divine himself, or in materially transcending common humanity, or as an object of prayer or spiritual worship, or as a means of salvific grace, but as the mediator of divine rule for this nation and as one with divinely granted power to direct them in their national completeness.” (p. 287-288)
“The [Christian] prince can adorn himself and his residence with Christian symbols…as crosses were once painted on royal armor. His military or militia, which defends a Christian people and their church, can be designated ‘soldiers of Christ‘” (p. 296-297)
“Earlier, I identified the prince as the mediator of civil rule, and I described him in god-like terms, following Scripture…The prince is an image of Christ to his people” (p. 309)
“we should pray that God would raise up [a Christian prince] from among us: one who would suppress the enemies of God and elevate his people; recover a worshipping people; restore masculine prominence in the land and a spirit for dominion; affirm and conserve his people and place, not permitting their dissolution or capture; and inspire a love of one’s Christian country.” (p. 323)
Having sketched three key components of the Wofle’s main argument, I’ll next discuss some of his book’s positive elements.
This sounds more like antichrist to me than anything biblical.
Or the pope. I think there are some serious dangers cleverly hidden in this ideology.
That is why we don't keep a president for more than 8 years because like some we know well their ego greed power want more power.
And IMHO that's what's wrong with the political right it's all about a person some worship and he has such an ego he thinks all things should go his way already but he wants that power power power
We should fellowship but just one person on earth to control and tell us what to do is crazy to me. And if someone wants that there is countries you could move to and have that. Then America could stay a democratic Republic and worship as we understand our Bible without hurting others.
Oh my God - that reads bad, so what happens !f the prince has a moral failure?? 😮
Bingo! Papal Romanism is the beast in Revelation that came out of the sea. Sadly, for the US, she is seen as the 2nd beast that came out of the earth with the two lamb like horns yet speaks just like the first beast Papal Romanism, a dragon. The lamb like horns are symbolic of our current constitution. Our 1st amendment is one example. God said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's.
How can individuals exercise their own conscience if there's no separation of church and state. In essence, Papal Romanism is antichrist and the mother harlot, mystery Babylon, the woman (church) that rides the beast (secular power). American Apostate Protestantism is the false prophet and the daughter harlots that make the IMAGE unto the first beast Romanism, which is reunification of church and state. Papal Romanism ruled from 538-1798 and was the persecuting power and has been ruling from the US it's Romanism's hidden proxy. They lied, they hid history from us. God's people will be persecuted again. Wake them up. Shout it from the roof tops. Let no man decieve you no longer. Go and see for yourself.
Remember, Satan is the prince of the power of the air.
Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Salvation comes by the grace of God through our faith in Christ alone.
It is the dragon (lucifer) who gives this Romanism her seat, power, and great authority.
Romanism says our MARK of ecclesiastical authority is SUNday.
Revelation 17:18 The woman (church) that thou saw who is also a city (Vatican City) reigns over all the kings of the earth.
A few things happened people went astray from God's Word and today many don't read or abide in God's Word and commandments. Secondly, while we were busy fulfilling our fleshly desires with all the new entertainment that came out of the 20th century the rulers of evil were able to keep us distracted and deceived, they took control of most everything, including historical records and educational institutions. You and I were deceived hopefully, as God says. How long will you slumber? How long will you simple ones be simple?
Things will move quicker and quicker. Trust no man. We must know who God/Christ is and what the Word actually says.
Many will be deceived. I hope you pass this on. We have work to do.
Thank you for all your content! I always get something outa each one you upload.
This isn't even a Christian conversation. I'm halfway through and not one word asking "What did Jesus teach about this?"
Jesus taught the Pharisees, who rejected His law: "For God said, 'Honor your father and mother,' and 'He who speaks evil of father and mother let him be put to death..'" (Mt 15:4).
@@robertdavidson9674 ???
How about citing Jesus' teaching on enforcing His commandments using political power which is what "Christian Nationalism" is about?
@@mriconoclast13 The power of the sword for enforcing justice cannot be avoided and is Biblical, according to Romans 13:1-4ff. It will either be wielded by Christians to enforce God's perfect justice or by unbelievers to enforce something other than God's perfect justice (Dan 7:13,14,28).
Take Exodus 20-24, for example, the Mosaic Covenant. Some sins have no penalty attached, so they are NOT crimes to be enforced by the civil government (Ex 22:21 to Ex 23:31). Most of the rest of Exodus 21 to 22:20 have penalties attached, making them crimes that ARE to be enforced by Civil government.
God's terminology for this is not "Christian Nationalism," but rather "The Book of the Covenant" (Exodus 24:7), consisting of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 and their case law illustrations in Exodus 21-23. Exodus 24 is the covenant commitment to obey the Ten "Words" and the "Ordinances" (Ex 24:3), which God considers to be one "Book of the Covenant" (Exodus 24:7).
Exodus 21:22 & 30 introduces the idea of "victim's rights" and the monetary "ransom," which is an element of mercy in all but one of the death penalty laws that allows for a one-time monetary substitute instead of death. With consent of the victim, advised by the judge, the ransom may be offered or accepted (Ex 21:22). This foreshadows the death of Christ for our sins. Premeditated murder is the exception. This is basically two-strikes and you're out, according to Deut. 17:9-13. This is the solution to the gang problem, but Christians reject it.
The Puritans did not seem to understand the ransom concept, based on what we read in the Massachusetts Body of LIberties. They did however list about 15 death penalties with Bible references. Most of the colonies did this with the exception of Rogue Island, which did not base it's laws on the Bible. The U.S. Constitution is modeled on the government of Rogue Island.
sean and his buddy apologists don't care about jesus, they never talk about jesus, all they do is try to convince people that atheists are evil and that god didn't genocide and condone slavery, apologists are paid to be liars, they don't care about what jesus taught.
Sean, a show on homeschooling for Christians might be really helpful!
The real value of the concept of separation of church and state is liberty of conscience and religious toleration
This is by far the best discussion on the subject.
Thank you for this discussion. "Christian Nationalism" brings vastly different things to mind between my politically liberal sister and me, based on the priorities, content and conditioning of our primary news sources and algorithms.
Progressive atheists are more politically active than Evangelicals because they (Progressives) consider themselves more enlightened and honest: 'religious people' are deceived and deluded, they believe, into grabbing political power for their god; they (Progressives) must, therefore, desperately "out-grab" us, to keep us religious folk from ruining the country. Since man, for Progressives, is the measure of all things, politics is all they've got for attaining/obtaining the world they think they want.
Precisely
Christians literally do not do anything positive whatsoever, they just fight every little change in society (and praise themselves for positive things someone else has done).
It just boggles my mind how people, who don't learn anything, ever, who worship ignorance, who support and admire all kinds of abusive con-men in politics, who wreck the environment, who refuse to even do something so miniscule and insignificant as wearing a mask to show that THEY LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOR, these idle and completely useless people think of themselves as being superior. 🙄
Not wanting a book and those who value it beyond reason to tell you what to do doesn't mean you think man is the measure of all things.
You might have one of the worst interpretations of progressivism I've ever heard.
Thanks for great content, Sean (and Neil)!
Read the letters from the founding fathers during the revolutionary war, they were EXTREMELY Christian.
Distortion, which got 4 likes. SMH This country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION not a state Church or religion, which was why they left England. The founding fathers were not all Christians, some were Theists. So what's your point?
@@DMWB57 95% of the founding fathers were orthodox Christians, the other 5% were other secs of Christianity including Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. They wanted the government to stay out of their religion, that’s not saying they wanted no religious influence on government. As a matter of fact when the laws of this country were built it was the pastors who critiqued those laws and would judge the laws based on what the Bible said about them. The American revolution started with revival around the country. The United States is a Christian nation founded by orthodox Christians and meant for Christians, as you can see when we get away from our Christian roots as a country freedom can be quite disastrous.
So what? I saw a PragerU poll the other day asking who people think would be the best Founding Father to come back and be a leader today... meaningless! The time we live in now is insanely different from their time. They would be floored with all the changes, and maybe their personalities and beliefs would be altered as well.
@@wet-read what are you talking about? If their values were changed they wouldn’t have been able to do any of what they did. They never thought in a million years they were going to win the revolutionary war, and by the way if you want to look at a revolution with different values/ secular values just look over to the French Revolution that took place at almost the exact same time and see what a secular revolution looks like.
You are delusional, and need to read the sermon on the mount and think about your life and how far you have turned to satan.
Why not just have Wolfe on to discuss his own work? Instead of his opponent. Just an idea.
I'm more for not having any type of theocracy, freedom from religion.
I agree, religion has caused more war than territory, resources or covetry. Holy texts in particular need to be banned and burned and outlawed entirely.
Theocracy means "rule of God." You reject the rule of God?
@@robertdavidson9674 ...as long as I tell you what god says, sure...past that yes. Your more than welcome to let some group of men (as we've seen numerous times some pedophiles) interpret to you how YOU should live, be my guest; but I will not stay with you..there is no religion higher than truth sir.
@@robertdavidson9674 most definitely , and you have too, the constitution specifically puts god second to humans, i have more rights than god. and no one seems to recognise god is a dictator, you all bang on about marxism, but god is stalin, he kills people with no trial just for disagreeing with him, what kind of dumb people are you? you don'rt vote god in and you can;t vote god out - that's the definition of dictator, god is no better than stalin.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment
"thou shalt worship whoever you want"
and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god.
and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that,
and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became
a naturalised american purely
because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian,
the US is officially secular.
is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
I'm glad to see you discussing this. I'm as non-woke as they come but am pretty concerned about this phenomenon I'm the church as there is quite a bit of idolatry and bad theology mixed in with some segments of 'Christian Nationalism '. Especially out in the sticks where I live.
Thanks Jim!
Christian Nationalists bow down to idles? I've never seen any evidence of that. What is the "Bad theology" That has to do with Christ being king of kings?
If your non-woke, you willfully refuse to recognize racial injustice. Your basically saying that your a racist asshole. Im not surprised in the least.
@@josiajones9774 The golden Trump statue. They have their own bible regarding Trump. These people really think Trump is the new messiah, sent by God. It's both blasphemous and insane. I'm all for freedom of religion, and I'm also for freedom from religion.
@@josiajones9774 CN is sharia law dressed up. religists are so dumb they will fall for any con, trump said it out loud "you won;t have to vote again" meaning "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again", take a long hard look at project 2025 cos it plans to remove ALL the rights americans have enjoyed BECAUSE you are a secular country, it's sharia law dressed up as christianity - i urge everyone to read it cos it'll be the biggest mistake any country ever made to allow it to go into practice.
Thanks for tackling the issue of Christian nationalism, which is premised on the question of whether Christians should wield political power.
I’m looking forward to Shenvi’s upcoming book as it sounds like a one-stop shop against CT and CRT, etc. But is there such a book in support of CT or CRT that I could read? I want to read both sides but I don’t want a 20-book reading list!
See Romero and Liou's Christianity and CRT: A Faithful and Constructive Conversation
@@nashenvi Thank you!
The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American, & American Crusade: How the Supreme Court is Weaponizing Religious Freedom. Those 2 books are by Andrew Seidel. He is a 1st Amendment constitutional attorney. Side note: I'm glad your open to learning the otherside's position. Kudos to you!
OK, he starts off by saying that Christian nationalism is too nebulous an idea to write about? But that doesn’t stop anybody from writing against “wokeism”
21:07 “we” so is Neil saying he’s a Christian nationalist? He’s warning us that social justice didn’t differentiate between good and bad ideas in its coalition for lack of a better word. But doesn’t seem to acknowledge that the criticisms of Nach Christian nationalism are saying the exact same thing about Christian nationalism already. That Christians have not differentiated between the good and the bad and they have instead just adopted a co-belligerent stance, regardless of how bad the worldview is some of the subgroups.
Also, if it comes from canon press, run far away. Doug Wilson is rejected even by most reformed because of long held aberrant theology. Read his stuff about slavery. It’s abhorrent.
Neil's point at 26:00 is often what I find (is a term made up as a new perjorative/ad hominem first or is there a new political/culture group forming and claiming the 'right'). Whether the left really discovers a movement or their label becomes embraced as a self-fulfillling prophecy is hard to say. I think it is a trend of the modern social media realm. But we have the same issue with people's view of the term 'evangelical', Christian, etc. We at some point have to be willing to demand terms be defined and clarity be reached.
And at one point "Christian" was a slander against the early Church. According to Neil, he should be shocked to see believers claim that title. Not surprisingly, Christian is still slandered, misunderstood, and ill-defined today, yet we still claim it and still stress clarity of the moniker.
read project 2025, it couldn't be clearer, it wants to remove ALL of your freedoms and instate a dictatorship, it's there in black and white. CN is no different, it promotes sharia law, it's not "christian" at all. you all bang on about evil communists, CN is communism. trump wants to be stalin.
I don't need to watch the video to tell you the answer about "Who is a Christian?", or "What does the Bible mean?" or "What would Jesus do?", or any other such question is always "It depends on who you ask." Pick your verse and your interpretation of that verse. Almost none are absolutely clear and unambiguous - Thou shall not kill: self-defense? Capital punishment? War? Abortion? Usually people solve the ambiguity by giving themselves the status of ultimate accuracy, often informed by their community or self interest. Even with a title or study and dedication, still the Pope is just another opinion holder. Contracts, textbooks, specifications, etc try hard to be clear and unambiguous and sometimes fail, but almost all do better than the Bible. If it was, there would be only one denomination. So the Bible ends up as a crystal ball, or a mirror. Any position can be supported by choosing verses and interpreting them a certain way.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of of the (Republican) party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
~ Barry Goldwater - The Father Of The Modern Conservative Movement
christianity has become islam, christian nationalists want sharia law - read project 2025, it's designed to make trump another putin, he said it out loud "you won't need to vote next time" what he means is "you won't be allowed to vote next time"
We have to consider the intentions of the Founding Fathers. They were pretty smart. Although they had their disagreements, they gave us not a Christian nation but a nation built on freedom but heavily influenced by Christian thought. To steal from Franklin, “if you can keep it.”
They gave lip service to the Enlightenment, but thats about it. There was no christian thought there, except how to keep religion out of government. They did what all modern "christians" should be doing, and practicing behind closed doors, and keeping their religion out of the public square.
Here's our right as a Christian, because it's the will of God. But to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with our God.
the problem is god never speaks for himself does he, there's always some nut job fronting for him. are YOU the one who is qualified to speak for god? is sean? who is? trump?
@@HarryNicNicholas
Where'd you get that God never speaks for Himself?
Are you one that let's human scientists speak about nature and the physical realm and any other realm that we live in? Those nut jobs are always proven wrong, and/or change in their minds, oh it's definitely not lying when they call it a fact beyond reasonable doubt and then other facts prove their original facts wrong.
Maybe this is a basic breakdown. The Christian church has become complacent and worldly, so therefore its effectiveness in America is severely limited. We have removed ourselves by homeschooling, country club church, Christian colleges. But will legalistically trying to legislate morality instead of coming out of our comfort spaces and assist the poor and needy and the least of these.
Secular humanism, which knows more about the Bible than many christians, sees the hypocrisy of it and is calling us out for it.
close. the real problem is that god doesn't exist and consequently defending him is hard, and the more affluent people become, which is what everyone wants, then the less they need god. anyway god doesn't exist, so it doesn't matter what religists say or do, he;'s going going going.
@@HarryNicNicholas
I guess chance told you that God doesn't exist. What other assumption is it?
Really there's been plenty of logic applied and mathematics applied to the idea that there is a God. As a matter of fact there's plenty of logic and mathematics that have been used to show the very real possibility of god. But it's the myopic and limited view of the world that atheists have that doesn't allow them any wisdom or understanding to see that reality.
51:05 “desire to group with our kind” yes this and the other quotes from the author about “your people“ tells me he is a kinist like Rushdoony & Gary North. Kinists will insist they aren’t racist, but that’s what it amounts to.
Rushdoony was credibly accused of the same and some of the stuff he said about adoption allowing “substandard stock“ (or something along those lines,) to flourish was really truly awful.
The constitution of Zambia & Samoa declare themselves to be a ‘’christian nation'’...Would that fall under Christian Nationalism? Saying CN's are racist is very narrow minded.
read project 2025 cos it's not christian in the least, it's christianity turned into islam, it promotes sharia law. voting for christians is voting for a dictatorship. read what it says, it will outlaw freedom of speech. when trump said "you won't have to vote again" he meant "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again"
Confusion concerning a definition? CN is defined simply by this: As a nation let's stop doing things that make God angry !!! That's it. Getting there is another question. It cannot be imposed. American has to become Christian again first.
America is a nation where we have the right to be a Christian it’s not a Christian nation
sorry but you're ignorant of what CN is, it's sharia law, it's nothing christian at all, it's a bunch of men who want to ruin lives and enjoy being despots with total power. the idea is to install a dictatorship where you can't vote anymore and where those freedoms you yanks are so proud of are taken away, and back comes the inquisition. if it weren't evil embodied i would love for your country to install project 2025 so you would find out first hand what ignorant fools you are, but really, CN is the WORST thing that could happen to the US.
don't do it, you'll regret it.
Christian “little Christ” was also a derogatory term in the early church that we owned
At the 20:05 mark he mentions “racist ideas.”
Define these “ideas,” and what makes them “racist,” please.
It’s way to common to automatically dismiss any credibility on just about anything these days when it’s categorized as having associations with “racist ideas.”
Too vague.
He alluded earlier to the rejection of interracial marriage
As long as self-appointed or citizenry-elected, or government appointed…(or by any other means of attaining positions of power)…when human kind is involved there is opportunity for misuse, abuse and violation of individual autonomy. We only need to look at history, or this mornings news reports.
You should tell them that.
Be great to reference and include Gods word
Alfred the Great and his descendants adopted Exodus 20-24 word for word into the Constitution of Anglo-Saxon England for almost 200 years and enjoyed great freedom. That restitutionary form of government was replaced by a retributionary form by the Battle of Hastings in 1066.
not really, god's word doesn't count for spit anywhere in the world. and thankfully each poll that comes out shows god isn't all that anymore anyway, seems that believers are now neck and neck with atheists and the "nones" god is losing the swimsuit round of the beauty pageant - pew research and gallup.
@@robertdavidson9674 lol, want to go back to wearing bearskins and having to hunt every day?
Very clear and fair discussion of this nebulous concept.
Complex and Important topic and becoming more so every day. I hope you continue to explore the topic. At the heart of separation of church and state is the preservation of both liberty of conscience and liberty to practice any religion or none at all. Jesus offered this freedom . And I hope we all recognize that the mark of the beast is a violation of liberty of conscience.
What I would like for people to ponder for a moment is the symbolic lamb-like a beast that speaks like a dragon in the book of Rev. This is the second 'beast' or rather power/ nation in revelation that comes out of the land (Rev. 13). Unlike the first beast (power) in revelation who comes out of the water or rather comes out of "many peoples, nations, languages, and tongues." Remember, the bible itself defines its own symbols as the secret language of prophesy is meant to be understood not by surface readers, but by those who diligently study.
Many protestants of past ages, and EVERY reformer understood that the first beast of revelation was Papal Rome: A persecuting church/state power. To take the heat of the RC church, two more theories for intrerpreting prophesy arrose on the scene: preterism followed by futurism. (FYI both new interpretations were developed by Jesuits; Louis del Alcazar and Fransisco Ribera ) to deflect the identity of the persecuting Church/State. The second beast arrises after the deadly wound (1798 exile of the Pope and end of Papal power).
With that as a background, what is a power that arose, not out of many " people, languages, nations and tongue"s but rather arose from an unpopulated land, had lamblike or Christian features, and yet will speak like a dragon? Also after 1798? America.
in the end this beast (plolitical power) “causes to worship"; That is it makes laws regarding worship.
It’s not logical that a secular power forces worship. Only a very conservative movement would force people to worship. And this forced worship is the mark of the beast.
If you study marks and signs in scripture, you will see that they are religious practices that denote who you worship. It comes down to authority.
The issue will be man’s law verses God’s law. And all who live before Christ comes will have this test placed on them. (futurism and preterism have lulled people into a false sense of security that these things do not pertain to them and don't deserve thier study). “Here are they that keep the commandments of god” In context, this is the description of the remnant and they are contrasted to those who receive the mark. In other words, the mark will be a practice of worship opposed to the law of God.
Based on my understanding of biblical prophesy ,I don’t trust any movement that wants to harness the power of the state to enforce their dogmas. We need to attract hearts and minds as disciples of Christ. Blessings
you talk nonsense, but basically christian nationalism isn't christian at all, it's no different to sharia law. if you want to lose all the freedoms americans are so proud of, CN will do it for you.
@@HarryNicNicholas You say this as someone not versed in biblical prophesy. but I forgive you. We can agree that Christian Nationalism is not Christian as Christ respects our choices to believe or not to believe, to pracitve biblical Christianitry or not to.
Never heard of it till now.. Great conversation!!
Thx1
I really appreciate this theologically and practically sound treatment of this subject. Once Constantine declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. All these issues came into play.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment
"thou shalt worship whoever you want"
and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god.
and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that,
and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became
a naturalised american purely
because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian,
the US is officially secular.
is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
Christian nationalist believes we should push the country to follow God's law. What is wrong with that? Like Prophets did in Israel. What this country did before. Christians need to stop being so afraid to speak your beliefs.
True, Jesus never advocated to overthrow governments
Look up the debate between Roger Williams and John Cotton.
The Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty has started a group "Christians Against Christian Nationalism". Most Baptists have separation of Church and State among their statements of faith. The BJC would be a good group to include in this conversation. Similarly, David French, Russell Moore, John Fea and Phil Vischer. Julie Roys also.
A bunch of apostates and regime evangelicals who are voting for four more years of Biden
Christian Nationalism reminds me of going in the direction of Sharia Law or a Theocracy. Render to God what is Gods and to Caesar what is Caesar’s. And yes, Racism is woven throughout the movement. I’m just shooting from the hip here. It also reminds me of what Constantine did to Christianity. We know what that led to. Jesus said that his followers don’t fight because his kingdom is not of this world. He laid his life down for us. He died for us. Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for a friend. Jesus said that his Kingdom was not of this world.
Do you think this nation was founded in Shariah Law? CN is not the same thing, it only means that we will be ruled by something, all they want is to be ruled by the law of God, by Christian principles. In other words what would you prefer, transexual nationalism or Christian nationalism, but it is from the bottom up, not by force.
It seems like people are more afraid of God’s law than of pagan law. God is kinder and more compassionate than we are. David said that God’s law is like honey to his lips, he loved God’s law. I think the problem is that Christians have become more pagan than Biblical.
I heard Joel Webbon, a pastor who is a proclaimed Christian Nationalist, doesn't call it Theocracy but Theonomy (God's Law).
@@mamimalista7924How on earth can you argue in good faith that the United States was founded on Christian nationalist principles, when the Founding Fathers explicitly included the establishment clause in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution? Please explain how they were so hell bent on implementing Christian principles that they specifically included in the constitution, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion…” ???
@@stevebrandau9300Whether you call it theocracy or theonomy, it’s the same thing.
@@Adam-mj5hl congress is not the same as the individual states. The states were able to legislate based on religion. The Federal government was not supposed to have as much power as they have now. The laws of the states represent Christian nationalism.
Brother Sean, you and Neil both have a track record of good faith analysis of important issues, thank you for that. That said, consider this: CN opponents are looking at CN itself as the "problem", but what if CN itself is not the problem, just a symptom?
The real question is why is CN so attractive currently among disenfranchised males (and patriarchal women who hunger for masculine, biblical leadership)?
Why are so many male pastors so effeminate? Why are churches affirming female pastors and sinful sex norms in membership?
Why are men and young men especially, avoiding church? Where is male discipleship?
Why are secular, godless ideologies making such in roads in the evangelical church, like CRT, ESG, egalitarianism, emotional mysticism, outright witchcraft like the enneagram? Why is the church so worldly?
Has the church's pre-mill, dispensational, "holy huddle hang on until Jesus comes" theology (which is only 100 years old in the history of the church) caused the church to be passive and fearful? A hide-my-talent-in-the-ground disobedience?
Is CN the "problem" or is there something much much worse happening to the church?
And is CN just a good faith attempt to right the ship?
THAT approach to "CN", by looking at the church itself, would bear much more fruitful conversation for all Christians.
Also, there are many CN advocates who are simply trying to live out a biblical faith in the private and public sphere (as salt and light SHOULD BE) -- as some others have mentioned in the comments, it would have been very fruitful to have one of those. Not Shenvi, no personal slight to him, but this was an echo chamber discussion.
Your defense of CN with a bunch of false assumptions wasn't effective.
@@JW-tg1nn It was not a "defense" in any way, which would explain that. Good call. You must be a supervisor in whatever you do, I'd bet.
@@dubyag4124 1. Who are these "effeminate" pastors? What do you mean by "effeminate"? Do you think this is really that big of a problem?
2. Churches affirming sexual sin and having women pastors are not the same thing at all. What percentage of churches do you believe affirm sexual sin?
Egalitarianism, while I don't agree with it, has some arguments in it's favor whether you think they're valid or not (I don't). I don't think it's in the same category as affirming sin. If you disagree with egalitarianism, just go to a church that also disagrees with egalitarianism. There are quite a few.
3. All over social media I see young men being coddled because of this or that. If young men don't like what's happening in the church, shouldn't they join a church and try to affect change from within rather than complain it all over social media? You're creating victims instead of overcomers.
4. Male discipleship is in the church. Young men aren't getting it because they are avoiding church and complaining on social media.
5. Why are secular ideologies making their way into the church? Because Satan is always working against the church (but failing). Ever read the new testament? This is not a problem unique to our time.
@@JW-tg1nn Effeminate pastors is the water we breathe. One must work very very hard to find a pastor who will speak truth in love without apology or nuancing it to death.
Examples? Pick any:
Andy Stanley (gay sin affirming)
Gavin Ortlund (Evolution affirming)
Paul Tripp (woke)
David Platt (cries about the 3rd world, but lives in a mansion)
Basically any charismatic pastor that appeals to women.
Are there "toxic" hyper masculine pastors on the fringe, of course. But the point is the mainstream platformed Christian "man"/pastor is effeminate. And young men do not see leadership in the Church. They see man-pleasing, which ironically, is woman-pleasing. "Happy wife, happy life" is a lie from the pit of hell.
My favorite part was the question about the arc 2.0, to be sent into space with giraffes and elephants
Only giraffes and elephants?
Alliance first to God, but, yes
When will Evangelicals stop being so shallow? Has someone set a date when they will stop waging war against phrases and platitudes that were NEVER even usefully defined?
If someone has an answer to this, please let me know so I can order champagne and brie.
PhD in chemistry? Interviewed about political theology/theory?
Regarding the question asked by Rob Mangham:
"How does our natural (and therefore good according to Wolf) desire to group with our own kind square with God's desire for every tribe and every nation to be grouped together in heaven."
I'm not sure exactly what he means by "grouped together in heaven". It appears that the questioner thinks that there is some tension between our desire to be with our own kind and the homogeneity of heaven. I don't think that heaven will be ethnically or nationally homogenous. We are told that every tribe, tongue and nation will be there. We are told that the kings of the nations will bring tribute to Jesus in Jerusalem. If there will be kings, they will have subjects. So biblical descriptions of heaven strongly imply that we will continue to live in ethnolinguistic/national groups in heaven, each with its own rulers (that's us because we will rule with Christ). The idea that heaven will be a ethnically or linguistically homogenous society is a popular modern conception of paradise, but it's at odds with biblical descriptions. Perhaps if we understood that our ethnic identity is eternal then we would cease to see it as being necessarily at odds with our fundamental oneness in Christ. I think the prophets often point to the ethnic diversity in God's kingdom as one of its glories.
The best understanding of Christiannationlisim is laid out by Tudor Alexander from danceforlife pod cast the most profound insight into this idea
As a Catholic Integralist, I really like Christian Nationalism tbh of course, I do not agree with the protestantism part, but I really like it, I prefer that kind of government over the secularist, masonic and liberal governments like the ones we have today.
The Josias and New Polity are really good websites to learn about Catholic political philosophy or The Byzantine Catholic UA-cam channel has good videos about the topic
Masonic? You're way too deep in conspiracy land. Come visit reality when you get a chance.
You are obviously in congress with Satan. Jesus kingdom is not an earthly kingdom, and to embrace power and influence, as Jesus was tempted in the desert, is to embrace Satan. You lie to yourself and others when you say you know Jesus, you do not know Jesus, you only know Satan.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with christian nationalism whatsoever. At all. Matthew 20:25-28 details "gentile rulers" and how christians ought to be servants. Considering how American politicians are supposed to be public servants, shouldn't that mean America is perfect for Christian nationalism?
in your perfect world where people are exactly how you desire them to be, sure, but we don't live in your perfect world and serving is the last thing on any given politician's mind, which is why America is so great to begin with because of how much limitations the government has to serve their own interests
i can't believe what suckers religious folks are. CN is sharia law dressed up as christianity. either you love your country, which is secular and founded on secularism, or you want to live in russia under a dictator, cos that's what CN really is, it's not christian at all, it's sharia law, it's an excuse to implement what hitler4 was after in 1939 - trump said it himself "you won't need to vote again" cos what he means is "you won't be ALLOWED to vote again" i would laff my head off if you landed trump again as president cos then you'd find out exactly what you voted for - a dictatorship instead of a democracy - but the price is too high.
god is a dictator for goodness sake, you can't talk about freedom and say god is supreme - you can't vote god out if you find out he's not as nice as you thought.
you really need to rethink your comment, you're asking for trouble if you think CN is benign.
Matthew 20:25-28 us talking about the Kingdom of God, not worldly government. Yes, it would be good if those in government were more into servanthood than power or their own personal agendas, but worldly government is not the context here. Also, have you ever hear the saying that "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it?" Do you know the history of the church and government for the 2000+ years since Christianity was born? It's a history of one Christian group persecuting another, religious wars, forced (and probably fake) conversions because of sword or social pressure, executions because maybe you believe in believer baptism and the country you are in doesn't,, prison for someone preaching a form of (now acceptable) Christianity that does not agree with the ruler's ideas (such as happened in the "Christian city" under Calvin) not to mention the Spanish Inquisition, pogroms over the Jews, the Catholic sacking of the Easter Orthodox Constantinople during the Crusades . It has never worked. That is because no matter how much of a servant a leader wants to be (and most national leaders don't even attempt such a thing), he/she does not have the wisdom to rule - justice is not an easy issue. Not that we shouldn't do our best, but it and the topic of theology are not easy. Why? Because we are not God and we don't have God's understanding. In fact, why did the Pilgrims come to North America? Because the Christian Anglican government at home wouldn't allow them to free practice their conscience. Why did Quakers come to PA? Because the British government was against them. Why did Catholics come to Maryland? They hoped for a more congenial place to live than England. Why did Roger Williams go to what became Providence, RI? Because the Puritan Christians in MA didn't like it that he became a Baptist, arrested him, took him miles into the wilderness and left him there in the middle of a cold and snowy winter. He only survived with the help of friendly pagan Indians, making his way to what became R.I. where he founded a colony where anyone was welcome. The history of "Christian Princes" is indeed dark, whether pope, king, Puritan or whatever and any future attempts will be dark as well, imho.
To anyone reading the comments. Christian Nationalism IS the book "To My Legionaries" by Corneliu Codreanu. Read it! It is not the Westminster Confession of Faith. It's a simple as that.
CM is sharia law in disguise, don;t be silly. the whole trick is to make you think it's about christianity when it's about dictatorship. it's a bunch of sex starved old men who think they can bring back the inquisition, and if you miss that then you're as ignorant as 90% of the idiots in this comments section. religists are stupid people.
Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world.
John chapter 18 and verse 36.
any idea who wrote john, cos it wasn't anyone called john. and no one has a clue what jesus "said"
My Aunt's conservative ladies led her to call me a Marxist which I'm so far from. Aunt quit school as a teen and I told her that she is not educated enough to know what a Marxist is. Conversation stopper.
most people have no idea what marxism is even.
God and Country! Simple
Sure, just look at Afghanistan and the Taliban is you want to see how a religious theocracy will look like.
This is an important topic. It's painful to hear the unititiated talk stridently about what Christians believe.
lol. you have no idea what you believe, no two religists can agree on anything, not even how many gods there are. god is a joke, i know that much.
Loved the video, dealt with an issue with a lot of wisdom. It does seem best to avoid the title.
Jesus will never want his followers to indulge in worldy behaviours.
His kingdom was not an earthly kingdom, and claimed no nation.
Have you ever read the Great Commission. Jesus told his follower to make disciples of all "ethnos," "cultures,", "nations."
It's either Christ or chaos. If not a Christian nation, then what? A Muslim nation, secular nation (because that's been going great), Mormon nation, etc...?
We would have to seperate the union first. A nation cannot be as divided as ours.
They mention the founders, but the founders were christian. And based the laws off of christian values. And thst the nation was under God. In my experience that is what most christian nationalists want which isnt bad.
a lot of them were not christian. the constitution is not based on christian values. the constiution says nothing about our nation being under god, but a vague creator. the pledge of allegiance mentions that, but the "nation under god" part was added to fight communism
@@tonyisnotdeadexactly
Are two ideas being confused - Christian Nationalism vs Christian Dominionism?
If I understand it, the latter requires that Christians dominate government, and Christian theology define the basis for government.
It seems there is some crossover between those two terms. Listening to the Christian Nationalist they certainly talk about Christians taking over the institution of government, transform society (like mandating Sabbath keeping laws) and turn this wonderful world over to Jesus at His return.
It is my understanding that Christian Dominionism holds two tenets in particular that sets it apart. One, that man hold dominion over the earth, and the right to strip it of all its resources for economic prosperity, because Two, "christians" must bring about armageddon through political means, bringing the rapture, so that all "christian" will avoid the thousand years of hell on earth.. a hell on earth they created by raping the earth of all its natural resources, such as clean water and clean air.
read project 2025. you people are ignorant of what CN really is. it's tedious to have to keep telling people that CN is not christian at all, it's islam in disguise, it's sharia law.
The blending of church and state is more focused on putting the church into the state and not bringing the state into church. Christian Nationalism is using the government to privilege cultural Christianity. Saying laws should be based on Christian values (in this context) means passing laws solely for non-secular purposes and it's usually a virtue signal. I've never heard someone labeled a Christian nationalist for being pro-life or having a traditional view of marriage. It's when someone says "women who get abortions should be executed because abortion is murder and the bible calls for executing murderers and homosexuality should be totality removed from public view" that the term Christian nationalism is brought up.
I call that "christian" sharia law, because its just as bad as what they do in the middle east, something we are suppose to be better than, but really arent.
That assertion is incorrect. The common usage of the term Christian nationalist by the secular press is for every American evangelical who habitually votes Republican.
In the end, nationalism belongs to Caesar. However, even though it's basically a responsibility of Caesar, nationalism has the functionality of protecting people's land, resources and lives on it. The danger is that, if nationalism concept of "this is our land" overlaps between 2 peoples, it will be a "fight to the death" situation. It's now a situation between Israel and Palestine, and between China and Taiwan. In a sense, there should be a neutral zone between 2 beasts, they will fight in the absence of such a neutral zone, that's Ukraine and Russia. They will fight to the death in the absence of such a zone, plus a territory overlap. That's the nature of the beasts.
1. Loser Theology
2. Protestant Cope
3. Pietist L
4. Kingdom of God is Inevitable
lol, seems a lot of people aren't so sure. and you should see the latest stats cos everytime some new poll comes out religion loses more followers, atheists are now on pretty much equal trerms with believers, numbers wise. if god is almighty, how can he lose the popularity contest? (pew and gallup - check the numbers for yourself).
Wow how did someone comes up with the wild ideas to the extreme of changing wordings in the Bible.
IS THIS THE RESURRECTION?
I would push back when he says you live in a democracy. I thought you lived in a republic, which I think is better than democracy, for in a republic the individual has inviolable rights for himself, where as in democracy majority rules. Not sayn that America hasn't decayed into democracy, but initially it was created with the ideals of a republic.
Ummm actually, it's a republic. Said no one making a good point ever.
@@adamcosper3308 just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment
"thou shalt worship whoever you want"
and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god.
and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that,
and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became
a naturalised american purely
because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian,
the US is officially secular.
is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
you're remark is ignorant, but ignorance seems to apply to pretty much everyone in these comments and half of your country, you have no idea what CN is really about, all blissfully loving god and crossing your fingers while your country is being turned into another iran. the problem with religists is you love fantasy worlds where you'll be reunited with your pet gold fish in the after life and you have no clue that there is no god, there is no one coming to save you, and this is all you're going to get. i almost wish trump wins and CN is installed to see the look on your face when you realise what you've done.
Doug Wilson, who is over Cannon Press who published The Case For Christian Nationalsim, does at his core, believe that if all the nations fall under Christian laws or headship, Jesus will return and the church will give him the kingdom. It stems from his belief that being a part of the covenant has salvific powers, which would extend to the nations as they become christian.
“ being part of the covenant with salvific powers,…that extends to nations” huh? Is there a way a man can be saved without being personally born again through their faith response to the gospel? The gospel does not need to be politicized because it’s Jesus’ message and He didn’t politicize it whatsoever. He said His kingdom was not of this world.
@matts.6558 just to be clear, I 100% disagree with Wilson. Just stating his position.
@@mikepodorski4272 glad to hear you disagree with Wilson’s philosophical & theological views.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment
"thou shalt worship whoever you want"
and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god.
and a history lesson cos the USA is a secular nation, not many people seem to know that,
and the founding fathers were at best deists and certainly not christian. hitchens became
a naturalised american purely
because of the constitution. the UK is officially christian,
the US is officially secular.
is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
7 mountains is linked to the Vatican and the pope those that give tones to Vatican and the pope these are the ones with a deep insight
The city of 7 hills is indeed the Vatican and is one of many ways of identifying the beast which comes out of the sea.
CN Will happen it must. As all will see
Allah ackbar!!!
@@Adam-mj5hl you kidding right or you just blind
@@andresullivan6473 My point is that you sound just like a Taliban Islamic fundamentalist who wants their government to adopt Shariah law. The only difference is that you happened to be born in a Western country instead of the Middle East.
@@andresullivan6473wrong.
Is not Christian Nationalism the direction John Calvin took in his rule and reign in Geneva? That did not end well.
Calvin advocated "Natural Law," as does Wolfe, as did Eve. Any such substitute for God's law never ends well.
Christ said that we should render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.
One of the things that our government (Ceasar) calls for is for us to vote. To vote responsible, we need to study the issue and then seek to find what scripture says about them and the candidates that are running. Then, we should share this information with others and remember to vote.
If you claim your worldview is a biblical worldview, your denying reality and delusional.
Thinking of how Islam is the ruling religion in Iran since 1979 helps me understand what Christian Nationalism would be. I do not believe America is Gods Chosen nation.
There are so many ways to misunderstand Christian Nationalism. This is one.
CN is sharia law in disguise, follow it at your peril. if you want another civil war and people to be divided and fighting each other then go for it, CN isn't about christianity, it's about making trump a dictator and taking away the freedom the US has been so proud of. CN is about people who enjoy other people's misery, it's not about making the country a better place for EVERYONE.
Defining Christian Nationalism...My definition would be a Zealous and Robust participation of Christians in Government...Unlike what we have today which is a reflection of Christian Apathy, Ignorance and Sinful Attitudes toward Government...The Church and State are the only two institutions that the Bible says are God Ordained...The forsaking of Government by the Church in America is a 5 Star Sin...And is the Reason we are being ruled by the wicked...But when the Righteous Rule the people Rejoice...McDowell is just another person in the Pulpit that gets the Bible and God WRONG...Shame on you Sean...Leading God's People Astray...
Christian Nationism is more a populator cultural concept, it is more reactive to the changing of traditional American culture. the accusation of racism is just a progressive slur there is no Christian doctrine that supports it, if a Christian is racist the issue is with the individual or the community they attend
It seems the people who speak of it as "white Christian nationalism" are woke progressives who use it as a pejorative. That isn't fair. I disagree with Christian Nationalism but after many hours of listening to the Christian Nationalists themselves they never mention any racial component. That seems like more of a scare tactic from the left.
Jesus was just a good man who traveled and spread kindness , later people made him out to be someone he was not or claimed to be. He went up against the evil authorities at the time and was murdered for that, just like Martin Luther King and other rights fighters including many women rights fighters.
This is a really great, nuanced discussion. Thank you so much.
Wolf’s description of a Christian prince brought two things to mind - the anti-Christ and the recent short film “God Created Trump.”
And Wolf’s statements about not being able to truly connect with people outside of your own ethnic group reminded me of Tucker Carlson discussing the disadvantages of diversity and asking why you would want to work with, live next to, etc., someone you have nothing in common with.
Religions were created by men for men. I just believe in a loving creator and it is not just a He.
What is wrong with Christendom?
you mean like during the crusades?
Its Idolatry, and entering into a Covenant with Satan.
No, freedom under Exodus 20-24 during the dynasty of Aldred the Great for almost 200 years prior to the crusade era. 1066 marked the end of Alfred's dynasty and the beginning of the crusade era shortly thereafter.
@@stevebrandau9300 throughout time moving up to today.
@@josiajones9774it isn't biblical, for starters.
most of the best universities in this country were founded by Christian theologians and preachers. Unfortunately they sold out through the decades to the father of lies.
I’ve heard of it but it didn’t line with scripture. Plus I’ve never been patriotic.
You got the like!
I believe the Bible to be true. Inspired by our Father, the Creator, the giver of life. The Bible teaches us to study to show thyself approved. The word of God! Man has turn away from the lord . The love of money, immoral acts, murder , hatred towards others,jealousy, disobedience towards parents. Evil thoughts. Worrying, believing in one self. Selfishness, non forgiving, worshipping idols. We all sin.
Being a Christian means to be Christ like. Follow his teachings.
The commandments. In the Old Testament, the prophets, those faithful men and women. Neither one the was perfect, they had faith, some tried to do things their own way, and God let them know tooo! It’s the heart. He knows each and every one of us. The whole world. He loves us. Jesus died for the world. So the we may have everlasting life, if we want it. It’s our choice. The church is not a building. It’s the people , followers of Christ. He paid it all. Saten is already defeated. The Holy Spirit is our armor. Received through baptism. Hear, believe confess repent and be baptized. Tin the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word is God. I pray that someone hears.
Have more Christian communists than nationalists. Turn the cheek,give to whoever asks and using the "Good Samaritan " wanting us to accept immigrants who broke Cesars laws to get in. Have Christians focused on supplying material things rather than looking for those poor in spirit.
Neil
You are so right God didnt want to give israel a king but they kept asking so they got it and yes even David & Solomon had flaws thats why we seek our own salvation thru the word of God but trump doesnt even seem to know anything about christianity he is so self absorbed and even said he hasnt ask for forgiveness because he doesnt need to.
Mark Driscoll is applying to be the Christian Prince
So is DT
Kenneth Scott Latourette, in his work A History of Christianity points to the merger of Church and State after Constantine as a key point when corruption entered the church. If we look at the history after that time, including crusades (especially the sacking of Constantinople and persecution of the Jews), the Spanish Inquisition, the religious wars in Europe, it's hard for me to conclude that Christian Nationalism isn't heresy. I'm not saying that none of these folks were Christians, but it is an infection within the Church that brings disrepute on God's name. In his sermon "A Christrocracy", John Leland (Baptist preacher and one of the thinkers behind the First Amendment) called state religion "anti-christrocracy".
Abortion is not in the Bible, there should not be a ban, but have stipulations women are not running around getting abortions. Christian nationalism was in the time of hitler. Trump, vance, heritage foundation to me are dangerous with the christian nationalism, neo-nazi's. Wanting one world religion as christian nationalist. Ty for explaining other types of christian nstionalism.
Playing along with John Lennon here and using my imagination and how a christian nation would play out. Lets say the lawbook started up with the 10 commandments..... the first one there. That would if followed stricktly and punnished change atleast america alot.
Second one would that make sure nobody could be idols of any sort? No sportsheroes, no artist heroes no political heroes, no war heroes? I dont know the translations from the original languages, but it seems "unamerican". List goes on, but im already done with this as a viable base for a modern nation.
The way things are in this world the Rapture is on its way and no one wants to be left behind to face the horrors of the tribulation, also this world system is a sinking ship.
Many of the Christian Nationalists (Doug Wilson, Joel Webbon, etc) are not premillenialists... they don't believe in the rapture. They believe that Christians gloriously overcome the world and hand it off to Christ when he returns.. they are postmillenialists. Please go check this out and see if you find it true.
Don’t count on a rapture. God will test all in the tribulation why would you think you’d get off so easy? Look how the apostles died.
@@terry4137truth
No , next
At 1:00 the comments around the right use of power was very good. Pascal speaks of the sort of evil which is the result of good lacking power. In a power centered culture, which has denatured morality, the tendency is to denounce power (I.e. privilege) when we see injustice, but without acknowledging the need for a moral framework to sort through the right or wrong use of power.
I very much agree that we need an ideal and a prudential understanding of a Christian society, at the level of the family, church, and the state. Wherever the Church is successful in its missionary endeavors, there will be the question of how Christians should view the use of state power. To ignore this reality is to plan for bad Christian practice in the role as a citizen.
I also view Wolf’s vision of the Christian state as questionable, but it’s because I wonder if it truly describes the Christian ideal as tempered by prudence. But I’m encouraged by this discussion because we need more people asking what is Christ’s ideal state in the present time when his kingdom is already here, and advancing, but will not be ideal until he comes.
That is the challenge of Christian political theology and too often we capitulate to activism in the face of thoughtlessness and desperation.
No, it's not. There saved you a few minutes
Can we just get on with the book burning please
@SeanMcDowell What can be said concerning the surmounting sociological and anthropological evidence that Christianity has been the root of so many of the problems in our society? (i.e. homophobia, the rise of nationalism, the Iraq War, and the central banking system and pro-government propaganda peddled in a majority of churches around the US using Paul to justify extremest acts; to name a few).
Sorry. I don't see a connection between TRUE followers of Jesus Christ and any of the things you claim. There's a hijacked form of "Christianity" like goofball pastors Joel Osteen and a host of others. If you're referring to these false teachers, then they aren't to be associated with true followers. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing. A follower of Jesus Christ, while they may appreciate their country of origin, they aren't to be associated with thugs or radical groups who'll burn down buildings to make a point. On the other hand, they'll likely fight for what they believe in, when it's necessary to do so. For example, break into my house, and I will shoot you to protect my family. Will I go out looking for trouble? No. Do you have any questions?
@Jan Sixlie How so?
@jansixlie6415 You sound like an indoctrinated sheep. 🤔
@Jan Sixlie and still no answer cause there is none.