At a recent narrative event, I ran a "The dude and his cronies" list of Knight of Shrouds on foot w/ the extra reaction blessing with a reaper and chainrasp as well as 2 sets of dreadwarden and 2 chainrasps. In short, it did not do too well. I won one game because ressurection made it really hard to take out models and cause my deployment groups to be broken. The basic game plan was to use doubles to either dump damage with thr Dreadwardens, debuff s3/s4 fighters and mob/counter with chainrasps, and trap objectives and never die with the knight shrouds, debuffing using the reaper against T4/T5 models to help the knight to do some damage It sounded okay in my head, but absolutely fell flat in execution against cohesive lists The biggest issue is that my opponents were either too numerous and i couldn't kill them quickly enough or they were too tanky and I couldn't kill them at all.
NH are always kind of going to have issues vs stronger teams but I don't think they are totally a lost cause (well, not tournament winning, but not totally last place either). I went 2/2 with them in last month's discord league but I don't think that the losses were unwinnable... It just takes ALOT more effort and luck then normal.
Interesting changes... I'll have to revise my NH list. Was maining reapers with a Cairn Wraith and 1 Chainghast(+Rampage) as reaper upgrade until Warcry 2.0 dropped melee restriction. And since T5 loss felt super heavy, I have been running Harridans and a Morghast(magnetised) because I don't own a Vargulf. And retired my Chainrasps for... Dire wolves... I didn't expect someone to favor those abysmal glaivewraiths, but the addition of divine blessings definitely got me thinking now. Current list (now old): Dreadblade, 2 Harridan, Morghast Archai w. swords, Reaper, 2 Dire wolves...
haha, Glaivewraith Stalkers aren't great even with the blessings but they are the cheapest 10 wound fighter in faction so there might be something there (though my recent games with them have involved some really unlucky crits going through onto them). They are all faster then they were in the last edition and the ghur terrain has a bunch of verticality to it so they definitely feel like a warband that needs to play to that strength.
I found myself (back when Blessings were nowhere to be known) dealing with the exact same problems in NH you described in this video. Comparing Stalkers with Rasps (didn t have any stalkers painted to play so I HAD to bring rasps and that was bad...), trying to make use of the Spirit host crit ability, using banshees to try and deal dmg (I too reconed they are the most cost-effective fighters for NH)
For sure. The problems haven't really changed for NH since I origionally looked at them a year ago but at least the divine blessings can make some average-decent fighters out of their generally poor efficiency ones. If you are interested I did a numerical analysis of all the fighters which is a little outdated now but still holds up in some places; www.offmetamusings.com/2022/08/nighthaunt-in-warcry-2022.html
Nighthaunt were the first warband I managed to fully paint but I've always struggled to get my head around them. I've tried using Grimghast Reapers because of their Soul Marked Prey double. They're otherwise not worth the extra 15 points they cost over a Glaivewraith Stalker but I have been hoping that targeted +1 str buff would make them useful when backing up other fighters. Given that idea didn't even warrant a mention in your video I now presume I've been barking up the wrong tree with it!
Probably the main reason ive overlooked soulmarked prey reapers is that the ability doesn't do anything on the turn you charge in (because the target needs to be wounded already); NH are also likely to be using their dice in other ways by mostly making triples so its never really something that has come up for me. My favourite 'medium' guy is the bladeghiest revenant due to the s4 because there is actually an argument to be made over spending the 20 extra points to go for a banshee for the extra base damage.
I played my first Warcry match after dusting off and painting my stored NH collection. I went with something close to your competitive list but I didn't understand how blassings worked so I mixed the chaff around a bit, replaced the glaivewraiths with two banshees and two reapers. In the end the group I played wasn't using blessings yet so it looks like I made the right call. I did win. I definitely think that the Briar Queen is incredibly strong and her triple makes her very dangerous. The Lord Executioner also did pretty well. He was taking on half the enemy warband by the end and dealing a lot of damage on his way out. I feel he would be more effective with more toughness to survive longer than the extra damage which might not feel like a lot but is very reliable. Nighthaunt fighters seem to be pretty weak and only good for controlling the board. I can see why you would up their wounds since with only 10 wounds a lot of them go down before they can do anything.
Nice, good to hear that NH had a win :) I did a video on divine blessings here if you want some insight into that: ua-cam.com/video/Bg3EJTI83DA/v-deo.html They really do help bring NH up a couple of knotches. Ultimately they are a mobility warband but without the terrain or objectives they can't really put all that mobility to good use.
One thing I might try is dumping the idea of an all-nighthaunt list and grabbing a trueblade exemplar. For 5 points over a blessed Lord Executioner/Wielder you get +1S, +1 normal damage at the cost of your mobility. Still, beat stick is beat stick.
Trueblade Exemplar is pretty good. I think that to get around the main NH weaknesses (lack of numbers), you almost want to ally in something like the electric zombie warband but at that point it's only really your heroes and maybe a spirit host that you are left with.
I play Nighthaunt and I really struggle between bringing actually good units like the Lord Executioner and the Dread Harrow, and bringing the coolest units like the mounted Knight of Shrouds. I don't think I'll ever be able to build a list without that Knight. It's just the coolest model I own
The Knight isn't totally bad, its just real expensive for some reason (especially what you get from the Harrow in terms of flexability) but yeah, I get you; There are a bunch of ways to making Nighthaunt 'fine' but at this point if you are playing them, its for a love of the models more then anything else :)
I think one of my favorite ideas with nighthaunt is the idea that you can potentially rez the Knight of Shrouds at the end of one round (making sure to rez him within 1" of an enemy) and activate him first at the start of the next round and use stolen hours with 2 attack actions
Really appreciate this video! I really dig the Nighthaunt aesthetic but I've steered clear because of how non-competitive they are. What do you think about allying in Velmorn and two of his ressurectable chaff units to your "All the Tricks" list to get the unit count up to eight? I'm thinking sub in Velmorn for the Spirit Host and give him Ferocity, two of his minions at 125 points, drop to x2 buffed Glaivewraiths and take x1 Dreadscythe Harridan for her AOE ability. Keep the Briar Queen and its x8 units and 1000 points on the nose.
For sure; the sons of velmorn represent top tier units to bring into any death warband; you could probably drop the spirit host and the 4x stalkers entirely for most, if not all of it (probably leaving jedran at home) but at that point you almost aren't playing NH anymore XD
@@OffMetaMusings yeah, I don't want to bring in TOO many allies, it was just that, like you, I feel like x7 units is just a tad too few as a general rule so I started thinking about how to preserve the bulk of your "All the Tricks" list, which I very much liked, but get an additional unit into it. I couldn't find a way to do it I liked with just NH then realized that a Bladeborn leader could give access to cheap chaff, which, as you pointed out, NH is lacking because of high move and fly.
Imho the basic skills all should be removed for the next season. The +1 ATK is just way too good to use much else. Also every warband would feel way more different this way. Warcry is a system where i can see myself easily balance this in the future with all the tools that are there.
I don't necessarily disagree with the universal abilities but they definitely do need a re-balancing i think; Rampage being better then most other faction's Quads has basically become a meme at this point.
There's some warbands that just don't use onslaught that much, because they've got stuff that's better. If you remove onslaught, the gap between factions with good abilities and bad abilities gets wider, because the factions with bad abilities no longer have onslaught to lean on.
#makenighthauntgreatagain
Were they ever that great? I don't recall them being well regarded in 1st edition either.
At a recent narrative event, I ran a "The dude and his cronies" list of Knight of Shrouds on foot w/ the extra reaction blessing with a reaper and chainrasp as well as 2 sets of dreadwarden and 2 chainrasps.
In short, it did not do too well.
I won one game because ressurection made it really hard to take out models and cause my deployment groups to be broken.
The basic game plan was to use doubles to either dump damage with thr Dreadwardens, debuff s3/s4 fighters and mob/counter with chainrasps, and trap objectives and never die with the knight shrouds, debuffing using the reaper against T4/T5 models to help the knight to do some damage
It sounded okay in my head, but absolutely fell flat in execution against cohesive lists
The biggest issue is that my opponents were either too numerous and i couldn't kill them quickly enough or they were too tanky and I couldn't kill them at all.
NH are always kind of going to have issues vs stronger teams but I don't think they are totally a lost cause (well, not tournament winning, but not totally last place either). I went 2/2 with them in last month's discord league but I don't think that the losses were unwinnable... It just takes ALOT more effort and luck then normal.
Interesting changes... I'll have to revise my NH list. Was maining reapers with a Cairn Wraith and 1 Chainghast(+Rampage) as reaper upgrade until Warcry 2.0 dropped melee restriction.
And since T5 loss felt super heavy, I have been running Harridans and a Morghast(magnetised) because I don't own a Vargulf. And retired my Chainrasps for... Dire wolves...
I didn't expect someone to favor those abysmal glaivewraiths, but the addition of divine blessings definitely got me thinking now.
Current list (now old): Dreadblade, 2 Harridan, Morghast Archai w. swords, Reaper, 2 Dire wolves...
haha, Glaivewraith Stalkers aren't great even with the blessings but they are the cheapest 10 wound fighter in faction so there might be something there (though my recent games with them have involved some really unlucky crits going through onto them). They are all faster then they were in the last edition and the ghur terrain has a bunch of verticality to it so they definitely feel like a warband that needs to play to that strength.
I found myself (back when Blessings were nowhere to be known) dealing with the exact same problems in NH you described in this video. Comparing Stalkers with Rasps (didn t have any stalkers painted to play so I HAD to bring rasps and that was bad...), trying to make use of the Spirit host crit ability, using banshees to try and deal dmg (I too reconed they are the most cost-effective fighters for NH)
For sure. The problems haven't really changed for NH since I origionally looked at them a year ago but at least the divine blessings can make some average-decent fighters out of their generally poor efficiency ones. If you are interested I did a numerical analysis of all the fighters which is a little outdated now but still holds up in some places;
www.offmetamusings.com/2022/08/nighthaunt-in-warcry-2022.html
Nighthaunt were the first warband I managed to fully paint but I've always struggled to get my head around them. I've tried using Grimghast Reapers because of their Soul Marked Prey double. They're otherwise not worth the extra 15 points they cost over a Glaivewraith Stalker but I have been hoping that targeted +1 str buff would make them useful when backing up other fighters. Given that idea didn't even warrant a mention in your video I now presume I've been barking up the wrong tree with it!
Probably the main reason ive overlooked soulmarked prey reapers is that the ability doesn't do anything on the turn you charge in (because the target needs to be wounded already); NH are also likely to be using their dice in other ways by mostly making triples so its never really something that has come up for me. My favourite 'medium' guy is the bladeghiest revenant due to the s4 because there is actually an argument to be made over spending the 20 extra points to go for a banshee for the extra base damage.
@@OffMetaMusingsthanks for the analysis, I have some Bladegheists on sprue, I'll have to build them up some time.
I played my first Warcry match after dusting off and painting my stored NH collection. I went with something close to your competitive list but I didn't understand how blassings worked so I mixed the chaff around a bit, replaced the glaivewraiths with two banshees and two reapers. In the end the group I played wasn't using blessings yet so it looks like I made the right call.
I did win. I definitely think that the Briar Queen is incredibly strong and her triple makes her very dangerous. The Lord Executioner also did pretty well. He was taking on half the enemy warband by the end and dealing a lot of damage on his way out. I feel he would be more effective with more toughness to survive longer than the extra damage which might not feel like a lot but is very reliable.
Nighthaunt fighters seem to be pretty weak and only good for controlling the board. I can see why you would up their wounds since with only 10 wounds a lot of them go down before they can do anything.
Nice, good to hear that NH had a win :) I did a video on divine blessings here if you want some insight into that: ua-cam.com/video/Bg3EJTI83DA/v-deo.html They really do help bring NH up a couple of knotches. Ultimately they are a mobility warband but without the terrain or objectives they can't really put all that mobility to good use.
One thing I might try is dumping the idea of an all-nighthaunt list and grabbing a trueblade exemplar. For 5 points over a blessed Lord Executioner/Wielder you get +1S, +1 normal damage at the cost of your mobility.
Still, beat stick is beat stick.
Trueblade Exemplar is pretty good. I think that to get around the main NH weaknesses (lack of numbers), you almost want to ally in something like the electric zombie warband but at that point it's only really your heroes and maybe a spirit host that you are left with.
I play Nighthaunt and I really struggle between bringing actually good units like the Lord Executioner and the Dread Harrow, and bringing the coolest units like the mounted Knight of Shrouds. I don't think I'll ever be able to build a list without that Knight. It's just the coolest model I own
The Knight isn't totally bad, its just real expensive for some reason (especially what you get from the Harrow in terms of flexability) but yeah, I get you; There are a bunch of ways to making Nighthaunt 'fine' but at this point if you are playing them, its for a love of the models more then anything else :)
I think one of my favorite ideas with nighthaunt is the idea that you can potentially rez the Knight of Shrouds at the end of one round (making sure to rez him within 1" of an enemy) and activate him first at the start of the next round and use stolen hours with 2 attack actions
that's pretty neat :)
tbh what i do to keep it simple is i upgrade to toughness 5 on all ghosts like it used to be, its not perfect but its cheap.
Really appreciate this video! I really dig the Nighthaunt aesthetic but I've steered clear because of how non-competitive they are. What do you think about allying in Velmorn and two of his ressurectable chaff units to your "All the Tricks" list to get the unit count up to eight? I'm thinking sub in Velmorn for the Spirit Host and give him Ferocity, two of his minions at 125 points, drop to x2 buffed Glaivewraiths and take x1 Dreadscythe Harridan for her AOE ability. Keep the Briar Queen and its x8 units and 1000 points on the nose.
For sure; the sons of velmorn represent top tier units to bring into any death warband; you could probably drop the spirit host and the 4x stalkers entirely for most, if not all of it (probably leaving jedran at home) but at that point you almost aren't playing NH anymore XD
@@OffMetaMusings yeah, I don't want to bring in TOO many allies, it was just that, like you, I feel like x7 units is just a tad too few as a general rule so I started thinking about how to preserve the bulk of your "All the Tricks" list, which I very much liked, but get an additional unit into it. I couldn't find a way to do it I liked with just NH then realized that a Bladeborn leader could give access to cheap chaff, which, as you pointed out, NH is lacking because of high move and fly.
Excellent video!
Many thanks :)
Imho the basic skills all should be removed for the next season. The +1 ATK is just way too good to use much else. Also every warband would feel way more different this way. Warcry is a system where i can see myself easily balance this in the future with all the tools that are there.
I don't necessarily disagree with the universal abilities but they definitely do need a re-balancing i think; Rampage being better then most other faction's Quads has basically become a meme at this point.
There's some warbands that just don't use onslaught that much, because they've got stuff that's better. If you remove onslaught, the gap between factions with good abilities and bad abilities gets wider, because the factions with bad abilities no longer have onslaught to lean on.