Biggest problem I have with underworlds teams is how hard they are to get hold off. If all of them were readily available I wouldn’t have much issue with them.
I'm a casual player. I've collected alot of Underworld Warbands over the years for my play groups Mordheim campaign, so it is nice to be able to bring alot of these models off* the shelves. I will say pushing Underworlds models in Warcry does feel like a TCG move. Kind of a way to sell a box for access to one or two meta defining models. Like good luck finding Sons of Velenorn or the Godsworn for a decent price.
also Lord-Vigilant on Stalker is going to be a S4 anvil for sure. Move him into position and use lightning scoured soul and watch him eat up attack actions.
I have played WC once a week since first edition, casuallly. I love the points updates here. Keeping in mind there is a pretty big lag to what James publishes, and keeping in mind that we are only a few months out from the meta watch. Getting a points update that shakes up some smaller pieces of the meta while not invalidating people’s favorite lists is awesome. While it is odd that Blade Born got such a focus, it is key to remember we got 3 new warbands and 3 significant changes to existing warbands.
I like underworlds and the cool additional models. Especially since my favorite warbands don’t have bespoke yet. Ex: ironjawz, gloomspite gitz, and Skaven
Given how you were encouraging people to seek out the Sepulchral Guard and the other Soulblight Gravelords Underworlds warbands after the last update, I think you might be a little responsible for all these Underworlds updates. 😉 Updating other warbands is however better than just nerfing the problematic ones, in my opinion. Casual players are probably happy to just play with the Underworlds warbands they happen to have in their collection, but i can see how competitive players will now feel they are being "forced" to seek out discontinued warbands in order to be competitively viable.
For me underworld has been 98% cooler looking units to proxy basic profiles. Now most of this units have +5 or -5 points difference with those profiles and can be use accessing unique abilities. Biggest loser to me has been ironjawz being the only faction with models shafted: they could have at least keep ardboys w big choppa and double choppa at 80 points. Even If you compare the buffed ironskull boyz with the new ardboys is a no contest, their unique double is way worse +1 toughness and they cost slightly more. Khorne, slave to darkness and all elves races has now more options to fill up their lists. Fecula, headkrakka and vortemis are now playable and they have pretty interesting abilities. But I agree Myari hands down most interesting unit buffed: I use him in my lumineth list and is anyways the mvp debuffing someone attacks, making someone else easy target or even both; now has 25 spare points in blessing or upgrade of other units I’ll keep playing skaven, in my opinion is overall the faction with the most profiles available and answers for every strategy. Cheers
I've collected Underworlds models since I got into Warhammer during the pandemic and I'm excited that I can use the coolest models GW makes in more than one game- but if I were a Warcry tournament player, I would be frustrated by the Bladeborn fighter rules. I can see how someone would be super annoyed that something like Vexmor and other Underworlds fighters are this pervasive threat at tournaments. I think it might be worthwhile for TOs to experiment with ditching the Bladeborn rules and seeing what happens.
Yep, I'm pretty disappointed in it tbh- and this is as good as it's going to get, for skaven, this is our moment in the limelight and we got the weirdest points changes ever, no fixes for our problems, and for all the new rat ogres are cool in isolation, it kind of messes with teh warband- we lose the lower-cost big hitter combo and get another high cost big hitter that we didn't need, pretty much.
Maybe we get lucky and the upcoming Underworlds announcement is that all the warbands are now available on a made to order basis! That solves the only real problem with bladeborn.
I qualify for the end question. My statement is that they need to balance all the underworlds models if that is the case, as there are older ones which aren’t as good, the old FEC, Duval, etc.
I think I definitely qualify as casual, play a day-long casual narrative event ~2-3 times a year and that it. For what it's worth, in our little group at least, Underworlds warbands are most 'relevant' when they enable us to play things that otherwise don't exist, so like, Mollog as a troll leader, the wood elves allowing us to bring old wood elf models, the idoneth with the octopus, stuff like that. I'm glad that stuff that's obviously loopholes are closed (like 'why wouldn't you run the named grave guard when they're cheaper??') and I kinda agree that it's annoying and bloaty when a 'named' character is an auto-include (rather than a specific thematic choice). But I think the main thing regards availability which I see some references to in the comments here and casual play is... my group at least literally doesn't care if you don't have the specific underworlds warband models. We often aren't using the GW models for warbands to begin with, either, or if we are it's sometimes like older sculpts, 'counts-as' whatever the most appropriate statline is. It doesn't matter to me if I can't get the gobbapalooza or whatever, I can kitbash my own Brewgit from whatever, or use a Creature Caster sculpt as Vexmor (sad to see they didn't fix that model :S). So I guess it's more like the TTS play you talked about anyway? And some of us will think about using bladeborn options for the unique themes they allow, some won't bother. But that brings us back to, the least interesting bladeborn ARE like the 'these are just some more of the same, but with names' - without knowing (or caring about) the pre-written fluff, what's the difference between Thundrik's Profiteers and just regular unnamed skydwarves? So it's kinda annoying if they become 'generic but better', just because you have to remember that this model isn't a kharadron captain, he's a 'thundrik' when you're looking up the rules.
I am casual (and mostly narrative campaign) player, have never comented here before and to answer your question: I love the points update for Undeworlds warbands a lot. I like to add them to my list as they usually bring fresh and cool loking models. I already had like every stormcast UW warband ever printed but until now adding like Fastriders to any list was just really bad. Although saying I love the point update I have to admit that looking at it from competitive player perspective (which I am not ) , it feels kind of sad UW models are automatically better. But overall, for casual play, I think this is great.
I am fortunate enough to have both sylvaneth underworld warbands. I like the nerf to karthaen as he was just an auto include (probably still is). I really like the buff to skaeth, and gallanghann as they are some of the coolest looking models for sylvanth UW andwere hard to fit into a list. Idk if its competitive, but I am definitely making a list with them. Thinking: 995pts Kurnoth Huntmaster with scythe +1a (teleport) Skaeth Kurnoth with scythe Althaen Gallanghann (with althaens +1 attack buff he can be pretty lethal for 80pts) 2x spite revs Tree rev. Reclusions looks really fun. I will probably try them out using my old stormcast models before picking up the new ones.
I'm just baffled by all the nerfs to the Grymwatch. They're my one WHU team I own and they're mostly not great right now, so I was very surprised to see a bunch of them go up in points even more. Guess they'll just continue to look cool in my cabinet. 🤷♂ Overall happy with this update though, getting all the new AoS models in Warcry is a big sticking point for me as someone trying to get new players into the game. It was always awkward having the conversation of "oh you can use all these AoS minis in Warcry - except for all the newest stuff..."
I like the Underworlds models, in the case of Warcry they tend to be game changers for some of the factions - eg Gitz. Zarbags and Grinkrak - one of them is kinda needed if your playing gitz, if you don't want to soup. However Mollog was not really viable before. I honestly think its an attempt to sell more of the UW models. The points drop in the new 80% of these were unnecessary.
*raising hand with snipping finger* No, I don't post on reddit. No, I don't play TTS. Yes, I am casual player. I love Underworlds models. Since I am collecting Warbands (have like 40), Underworlds makes it a lot easier to build a "solid" casual list, because it adds more variety to the warband when you got just a handfull of models for each warband. I even use the Underworlds models to proxy normal units, like using Galaghann as a normal tree revenant, because it was much cheaper to get the underworlds warband than getting a whole box of tree revenants. Well, of course I didn't buy the complete Underworlds boxes. Most of my crews I bought from ebay, in general without cards just the models, and I got many of them for 10 bucks per gang. Ok maybe it's relevant that I'm sitting in Germany, the aftermarket-prices seem to differ from those in the USA. So yes I really like the point changes, because now I can use a lot of the models I own for their original stats or as proxies like before, just what fits the warband better in what they do or what they cost.
I don’t mind the underworlds updates. But having them be too good is an issue because of how hard they are to get. While Flanehurlers could use a points update, I feel +15 is a bit over the top. They already make it not possible to play with what all models you get in a box after they increased Shatterers and now they are messing it up even more.
Do't there's any uncertainty in the clawlord's ability tbh, it just does what it says "you can do this and this", there's no suggestion of an order or a constraint on it (and tbh if they wanted it to do that, it wouldn't be hard to make it clear, it'd just be X THEN Y. It also says "can" not "must" so there's no indication that the two are linked. It's a strong ability for sure but really needs another strong fighter to make it shine, and that's half your warband. And his own stats aren't great for the cost. I don't think we'll see much of him.
Hi Dan great vid! I AM quite amazed that the old marauders are still in s2d. With the warqueen in two factions I had really hoped that s2d would get the darkoath marauders too
As a casual player who never post anything online, I absolutely love the underworlds models, they are just on a different level and I have a bunch of them in my collection, so I'm happy to see the points come down a little bit. But, I already have some fomo for some of the ones that I don't have that are harder to find, a quick search shows me how expensive getting 3 or 4 models will be, Which leads me to hoping that they will rerelease those kits with more of a warcry focus, maybe just the models with none of the cards and the extra crap.
I think if competitive players don't want to deal with hunting Bladeborn they should just ask their TOs to ban them or restrict them to in print sets. I wouldn't want to see GW remove the variety that BB offer that can easily be proxied, offer fun kitbashing opportunities, or allow people to use their gorgeous UW sculpts just to please a the competitive minority who play the game. I am bummed though that they did not broaden their view beyond struggling or OP BB and give some needed love/adjustments to struggling Warbands like Pyregheists, Askuegan Trueblades, and Claws of Karanak.
As someone who doesn't post at all on Reddit and alike, I'm a big fan of underworlds models I like the uniqueness of the sculpts, it brings alot of personality to the game which I think is important for a skirmish game, what I don't like about it is the availability of the models, it's great if you already own them, but buffing models that most people will track down on eBay or wherever, because they stopped production of them isn't a great feeling for me at least especially if they are, or become meta relevant.
I don't post a lot. I'm 50-50 on the Underworlds push. I think more variety = good, and if these points changes align the costs between Underworlds and the other Warcry units, then that's also good bc the min/maxing using indefensible costs for particular Underworlds fighters that were basically the same as other, basic Warcry fighters was annoying. But if the Underworlds models remain OOP and their availability low, so the cost for purchasing them is high, then... boo on that
Casual here. My local community is casual and we rule to not use bladeborn for our events. I personally would prefer if they expand the core warbands and we get tp use underworlds as alternative cool models 😅
I haven't played in a while but looking at getting back into the game. When I first started, I was more interested in index stuff than the bespoke warbands (Seraphon and Sylvaneth). As someone that doesn't play AOS, and so doesn't have a collection, building a warband that wasn't 1 box with no variety felt quite costly. As I would need to pick up multiple boxes for a couple of units out of that box. And the appeal of skirmish games for me is variety in units and each model feeling like a different piece. I was also the first person locally to give the game a go so was trying to approach it on a budget in case I couldn't get a scene started. I ended up finding an old copy of the Storm strike starter to get the EtB kits for Stormcast and Nighthaunt that got me started. Which I later added Stormsire's cursebreakers, as well as some second hand Nighthaunt models to, to flesh out my options. I ended up using second hand underworlds warbands as a basis for my collection of a couple more forces. Now I was mostly using them as their index equivalents for example two copies of Thundirk's profiteers might not give you a competitive force for KO but gives you a list with a lot of variety and for me was more appealing than 1 box of Arkonaut company spam. When these underworlds warbands got their own points own abilities that then provided me more options within lists and made the experience of having collected that way much better. So I really appreciate that they are playable in the system and are pointed to be decent as a lot of them are a cheaper way to get multiple options for your warband. I can see how it could be frustrating when playing at high levels to have to pick up an underworlds warband for 1 model but from another side looking to pick up 3-4 boxes to use 20% of the contents also feels bad. We are in a much better place now with options for the bespoke warbands branching out from just chaos and so it is less of a benefit than it was. But personally, I think being able to grab an out of the box warband and if you are enjoying it and want to expand it, having a couple of underworlds warbands that will give you a variety of options in one box is nice. That being said I think they should be balanced to be reasonably in line with their equivalents unless they are specifically adding something unique and interesting. I don't think that smashing the underworlds warbands together to make an optimal list is the right direction for them in the game.
I like that Underworlds and one box of a base unit can get a new player into warcry with some interesting options and room to build in a way that getting a bespoke box doesn't give you room to build and grow as much.
Hey Dan, I'm one of your fans who doesn't post a lot, these underworlds changes mean nothing because I don't have any of these older warbands (but they are awesome models) and i play super casually when i do get a game in. Most of my warcry teams are made from cheap AoS kits like vindicators or new edition boxes like Skaventide.
One note on the Brands Oathbound. As i read them they can all be taken as unit in the new Darkoath faction, but with the restriction of only pick the model once. So no need to take brand to take one of the non-hero guys, right? So the new Darkoath faction actually have a bit broader pool of fighters, and adding one or two of the brand fighters into a darkoath list opens up some interesting stuff.
Also, did you miss the flamehurler pts update? seems like another decent update to finally put the nail inHorns' coffin 😅😅 RIP my 3 hurler list i guess :P
Oh I missed the crossover potential. that makes me like them a lot more since I could just take Dendrel and Gunnar in a darkoath warb. I didn't miss the flamehurler, but it is tough for Horns. They were already hurting because not only did they get nerfed, but the meta shifted away from things they prey on, like swarms.
I'm a bit sad since my Horns will really struggle now, they could have used some help too even if both nerfs where kindof motivated (the flamer more so). And my flail based STD are a bit sad. Overall i'm happy that the game is still updated regulary though, on the UW-issue I have most of the competative ones but almost never use them - just too many abilities to keep track of! :-D
I think Horns needed both nerfs but they also needed some tweaks, their midcost guys are not good and now they've got nothing really to balance it out. Though tbh my gut feel is they're still pretty strong, basically they're now feeling two dimensional. Honestly i'd have rather seen a powering down of the flamers rather than a points increase. Give the ranged attack a minimum range and tone down the triple a bit.
@@andrewcunningham9256 Im happy for the flamer nerf, it´s realistically ok costed now if not still too good. But I disagree on the chatterers. I think everything should not be balanced between warbands, and it felt fitting that this horde of slave labourers would have cheap chaff. I strongly agree on the mid range fighters though, they really need a points drop to give the possibility of different builds for Horns. It's still just flamers, chatterers + allies, just fewer fighters.
@@nicklaslundstrom7924 The shatterers would have been fine if they just cheap chaff but they gave them 10 wounds and a somewhat useful attack. TBH this is another one where I think instead of a points increase they should have given then a stats nerf, to keep the "shape" of the warband the same. Make em T8 and 2 attacks and they were fine. But they were literally the same profile as a Freeguild With Spear for 15 points less and had an ability. They're STILL 10 points less.
So as a casual player, it doesn’t bother me much about the underworlds point changes, but what it feels like is they aren’t balancing their game to balance the game, they are balancing to sell models and if the pint changes make sense, it’s a happy accident, but was not intentional at all. I’m guessing they have a bunch of these warbands just sitting in a warehouse and they are using point changes as an excuse to get more sold, regardless of how it effects the game. I get it, but it still annoys me and it annoys me most that I can recognize it.
Almost none of the warbands that were changed are currently for sale. There aren't piles of them sitting around--they don't even make them anymore and haven't done so for quite some time.
Biggest problem I have with underworlds teams is how hard they are to get hold off. If all of them were readily available I wouldn’t have much issue with them.
@@andreasburman totally get that. Luckily most players and places are proxy friendly at least but I totally get the frustration
I'm a casual player. I've collected alot of Underworld Warbands over the years for my play groups Mordheim campaign, so it is nice to be able to bring alot of these models off* the shelves.
I will say pushing Underworlds models in Warcry does feel like a TCG move. Kind of a way to sell a box for access to one or two meta defining models. Like good luck finding Sons of Velenorn or the Godsworn for a decent price.
I'm curious, are Sons of Velmorn good in Underworlds? Or are they impossible to find due to being good in Warcry?
@@thesaltyseagames From what I've heard, Gnarlspirit Pack was really good in Underworlds and Sons of Velmorn a bit less so.
I love underworlds. As a whole.
Realmgore Ritualist in shambles rn
"oh no!!!!! I totally forgot about her." - me and Johnny B at the same time while reading this
Mollog has become Destruction. Destroyer of all.
also Lord-Vigilant on Stalker is going to be a S4 anvil for sure. Move him into position and use lightning scoured soul and watch him eat up attack actions.
I'm being destructed just thinking about him.
Isn't Mollog still just a worse Gutlord?
@@kidzuragMollog also has a permanent-1 atk aoe for a triple which us really powerful
@@armoire_enthusiast7 It is good but would you seriously trade it for an extra attack and a cheap move-booster like a Gutlord has? I wouldn't.
I have played WC once a week since first edition, casuallly.
I love the points updates here. Keeping in mind there is a pretty big lag to what James publishes, and keeping in mind that we are only a few months out from the meta watch.
Getting a points update that shakes up some smaller pieces of the meta while not invalidating people’s favorite lists is awesome.
While it is odd that Blade Born got such a focus, it is key to remember we got 3 new warbands and 3 significant changes to existing warbands.
I like underworlds and the cool additional models. Especially since my favorite warbands don’t have bespoke yet. Ex: ironjawz, gloomspite gitz, and Skaven
Given how you were encouraging people to seek out the Sepulchral Guard and the other Soulblight Gravelords Underworlds warbands after the last update, I think you might be a little responsible for all these Underworlds updates. 😉 Updating other warbands is however better than just nerfing the problematic ones, in my opinion.
Casual players are probably happy to just play with the Underworlds warbands they happen to have in their collection, but i can see how competitive players will now feel they are being "forced" to seek out discontinued warbands in order to be competitively viable.
I rarely play,and only super casually, but can't you just proxy whatever you want anyway? If the unit is in the game it should be balanced,right?
For me underworld has been 98% cooler looking units to proxy basic profiles. Now most of this units have +5 or -5 points difference with those profiles and can be use accessing unique abilities.
Biggest loser to me has been ironjawz being the only faction with models shafted: they could have at least keep ardboys w big choppa and double choppa at 80 points. Even If you compare the buffed ironskull boyz with the new ardboys is a no contest, their unique double is way worse +1 toughness and they cost slightly more.
Khorne, slave to darkness and all elves races has now more options to fill up their lists.
Fecula, headkrakka and vortemis are now playable and they have pretty interesting abilities.
But I agree Myari hands down most interesting unit buffed: I use him in my lumineth list and is anyways the mvp debuffing someone attacks, making someone else easy target or even both; now has 25 spare points in blessing or upgrade of other units
I’ll keep playing skaven, in my opinion is overall the faction with the most profiles available and answers for every strategy.
Cheers
I've collected Underworlds models since I got into Warhammer during the pandemic and I'm excited that I can use the coolest models GW makes in more than one game- but if I were a Warcry tournament player, I would be frustrated by the Bladeborn fighter rules. I can see how someone would be super annoyed that something like Vexmor and other Underworlds fighters are this pervasive threat at tournaments. I think it might be worthwhile for TOs to experiment with ditching the Bladeborn rules and seeing what happens.
Do you think Reclusians are looking better than Questor Soulsworn?
A little disappointed that they only added the Skaven from the launch box - i wanted to see some lightning cannons
Yea, the Galvaneer, new weapons teams, and Brood Terror would have been nice.
Yep, I'm pretty disappointed in it tbh- and this is as good as it's going to get, for skaven, this is our moment in the limelight and we got the weirdest points changes ever, no fixes for our problems, and for all the new rat ogres are cool in isolation, it kind of messes with teh warband- we lose the lower-cost big hitter combo and get another high cost big hitter that we didn't need, pretty much.
Mollog is 40 points cheaper. All that really matters! Also, very good video.
Honestly he still feels pretty rubbish even at 290? His triple's good but when you look at him beside a Gutlord it's still sad-making.
Maybe we get lucky and the upcoming Underworlds announcement is that all the warbands are now available on a made to order basis! That solves the only real problem with bladeborn.
I qualify for the end question. My statement is that they need to balance all the underworlds models if that is the case, as there are older ones which aren’t as good, the old FEC, Duval, etc.
Hey Dan great vid but do you think we'll get the rules for the new Darkoath models in the near future?
I saved warcry before you even knew it was in trouble 😤
@@armoire_enthusiast7 I've got it on good authority that the Darkoath Rules are coming soon
@@DaronSchmit any day now!
I think I definitely qualify as casual, play a day-long casual narrative event ~2-3 times a year and that it. For what it's worth, in our little group at least, Underworlds warbands are most 'relevant' when they enable us to play things that otherwise don't exist, so like, Mollog as a troll leader, the wood elves allowing us to bring old wood elf models, the idoneth with the octopus, stuff like that. I'm glad that stuff that's obviously loopholes are closed (like 'why wouldn't you run the named grave guard when they're cheaper??') and I kinda agree that it's annoying and bloaty when a 'named' character is an auto-include (rather than a specific thematic choice).
But I think the main thing regards availability which I see some references to in the comments here and casual play is... my group at least literally doesn't care if you don't have the specific underworlds warband models. We often aren't using the GW models for warbands to begin with, either, or if we are it's sometimes like older sculpts, 'counts-as' whatever the most appropriate statline is. It doesn't matter to me if I can't get the gobbapalooza or whatever, I can kitbash my own Brewgit from whatever, or use a Creature Caster sculpt as Vexmor (sad to see they didn't fix that model :S). So I guess it's more like the TTS play you talked about anyway? And some of us will think about using bladeborn options for the unique themes they allow, some won't bother.
But that brings us back to, the least interesting bladeborn ARE like the 'these are just some more of the same, but with names' - without knowing (or caring about) the pre-written fluff, what's the difference between Thundrik's Profiteers and just regular unnamed skydwarves? So it's kinda annoying if they become 'generic but better', just because you have to remember that this model isn't a kharadron captain, he's a 'thundrik' when you're looking up the rules.
Never seen that repackage of Mollog in a store either in us or uk. I also remain confused by the flamehurler nerf right after their chaff nerf.
I am casual (and mostly narrative campaign) player, have never comented here before and to answer your question: I love the points update for Undeworlds warbands a lot. I like to add them to my list as they usually bring fresh and cool loking models. I already had like every stormcast UW warband ever printed but until now adding like Fastriders to any list was just really bad. Although saying I love the point update I have to admit that looking at it from competitive player perspective (which I am not ) , it feels kind of sad UW models are automatically better. But overall, for casual play, I think this is great.
28:20 have you ever tried dual wielding hammers Dan? It's hard, tiring work.
I am fortunate enough to have both sylvaneth underworld warbands. I like the nerf to karthaen as he was just an auto include (probably still is). I really like the buff to skaeth, and gallanghann as they are some of the coolest looking models for sylvanth UW andwere hard to fit into a list. Idk if its competitive, but I am definitely making a list with them.
Thinking:
995pts
Kurnoth Huntmaster with scythe +1a (teleport)
Skaeth
Kurnoth with scythe
Althaen
Gallanghann (with althaens +1 attack buff he can be pretty lethal for 80pts)
2x spite revs
Tree rev.
Reclusions looks really fun. I will probably try them out using my old stormcast models before picking up the new ones.
I'm just baffled by all the nerfs to the Grymwatch. They're my one WHU team I own and they're mostly not great right now, so I was very surprised to see a bunch of them go up in points even more. Guess they'll just continue to look cool in my cabinet. 🤷♂
Overall happy with this update though, getting all the new AoS models in Warcry is a big sticking point for me as someone trying to get new players into the game. It was always awkward having the conversation of "oh you can use all these AoS minis in Warcry - except for all the newest stuff..."
I like the Underworlds models, in the case of Warcry they tend to be game changers for some of the factions - eg Gitz. Zarbags and Grinkrak - one of them is kinda needed if your playing gitz, if you don't want to soup. However Mollog was not really viable before. I honestly think its an attempt to sell more of the UW models. The points drop in the new 80% of these were unnecessary.
As a filthy casual, I find the UW changes appealing because they have some gorgeous models that is love to play. For example, I love Saek's mini!
*raising hand with snipping finger*
No, I don't post on reddit. No, I don't play TTS. Yes, I am casual player.
I love Underworlds models. Since I am collecting Warbands (have like 40), Underworlds makes it a lot easier to build a "solid" casual list, because it adds more variety to the warband when you got just a handfull of models for each warband. I even use the Underworlds models to proxy normal units, like using Galaghann as a normal tree revenant, because it was much cheaper to get the underworlds warband than getting a whole box of tree revenants.
Well, of course I didn't buy the complete Underworlds boxes. Most of my crews I bought from ebay, in general without cards just the models, and I got many of them for 10 bucks per gang. Ok maybe it's relevant that I'm sitting in Germany, the aftermarket-prices seem to differ from those in the USA.
So yes I really like the point changes, because now I can use a lot of the models I own for their original stats or as proxies like before, just what fits the warband better in what they do or what they cost.
I don’t mind the underworlds updates. But having them be too good is an issue because of how hard they are to get.
While Flanehurlers could use a points update, I feel +15 is a bit over the top. They already make it not possible to play with what all models you get in a box after they increased Shatterers and now they are messing it up even more.
Do't there's any uncertainty in the clawlord's ability tbh, it just does what it says "you can do this and this", there's no suggestion of an order or a constraint on it (and tbh if they wanted it to do that, it wouldn't be hard to make it clear, it'd just be X THEN Y. It also says "can" not "must" so there's no indication that the two are linked.
It's a strong ability for sure but really needs another strong fighter to make it shine, and that's half your warband. And his own stats aren't great for the cost. I don't think we'll see much of him.
Hi Dan great vid!
I AM quite amazed that the old marauders are still in s2d. With the warqueen in two factions I had really hoped that s2d would get the darkoath marauders too
As a casual player who never post anything online, I absolutely love the underworlds models, they are just on a different level and I have a bunch of them in my collection, so I'm happy to see the points come down a little bit. But, I already have some fomo for some of the ones that I don't have that are harder to find, a quick search shows me how expensive getting 3 or 4 models will be, Which leads me to hoping that they will rerelease those kits with more of a warcry focus, maybe just the models with none of the cards and the extra crap.
I think if competitive players don't want to deal with hunting Bladeborn they should just ask their TOs to ban them or restrict them to in print sets. I wouldn't want to see GW remove the variety that BB offer that can easily be proxied, offer fun kitbashing opportunities, or allow people to use their gorgeous UW sculpts just to please a the competitive minority who play the game.
I am bummed though that they did not broaden their view beyond struggling or OP BB and give some needed love/adjustments to struggling Warbands like Pyregheists, Askuegan Trueblades, and Claws of Karanak.
As someone who doesn't post at all on Reddit and alike, I'm a big fan of underworlds models I like the uniqueness of the sculpts, it brings alot of personality to the game which I think is important for a skirmish game, what I don't like about it is the availability of the models, it's great if you already own them, but buffing models that most people will track down on eBay or wherever, because they stopped production of them isn't a great feeling for me at least especially if they are, or become meta relevant.
I don't post a lot. I'm 50-50 on the Underworlds push. I think more variety = good, and if these points changes align the costs between Underworlds and the other Warcry units, then that's also good bc the min/maxing using indefensible costs for particular Underworlds fighters that were basically the same as other, basic Warcry fighters was annoying. But if the Underworlds models remain OOP and their availability low, so the cost for purchasing them is high, then... boo on that
Casual here. My local community is casual and we rule to not use bladeborn for our events.
I personally would prefer if they expand the core warbands and we get tp use underworlds as alternative cool models 😅
I haven't played in a while but looking at getting back into the game. When I first started, I was more interested in index stuff than the bespoke warbands (Seraphon and Sylvaneth). As someone that doesn't play AOS, and so doesn't have a collection, building a warband that wasn't 1 box with no variety felt quite costly. As I would need to pick up multiple boxes for a couple of units out of that box. And the appeal of skirmish games for me is variety in units and each model feeling like a different piece. I was also the first person locally to give the game a go so was trying to approach it on a budget in case I couldn't get a scene started.
I ended up finding an old copy of the Storm strike starter to get the EtB kits for Stormcast and Nighthaunt that got me started. Which I later added Stormsire's cursebreakers, as well as some second hand Nighthaunt models to, to flesh out my options.
I ended up using second hand underworlds warbands as a basis for my collection of a couple more forces. Now I was mostly using them as their index equivalents for example two copies of Thundirk's profiteers might not give you a competitive force for KO but gives you a list with a lot of variety and for me was more appealing than 1 box of Arkonaut company spam. When these underworlds warbands got their own points own abilities that then provided me more options within lists and made the experience of having collected that way much better.
So I really appreciate that they are playable in the system and are pointed to be decent as a lot of them are a cheaper way to get multiple options for your warband.
I can see how it could be frustrating when playing at high levels to have to pick up an underworlds warband for 1 model but from another side looking to pick up 3-4 boxes to use 20% of the contents also feels bad. We are in a much better place now with options for the bespoke warbands branching out from just chaos and so it is less of a benefit than it was. But personally, I think being able to grab an out of the box warband and if you are enjoying it and want to expand it, having a couple of underworlds warbands that will give you a variety of options in one box is nice. That being said I think they should be balanced to be reasonably in line with their equivalents unless they are specifically adding something unique and interesting. I don't think that smashing the underworlds warbands together to make an optimal list is the right direction for them in the game.
I like that Underworlds and one box of a base unit can get a new player into warcry with some interesting options and room to build in a way that getting a bespoke box doesn't give you room to build and grow as much.
Hey Dan, I'm one of your fans who doesn't post a lot, these underworlds changes mean nothing because I don't have any of these older warbands (but they are awesome models) and i play super casually when i do get a game in. Most of my warcry teams are made from cheap AoS kits like vindicators or new edition boxes like Skaventide.
One note on the Brands Oathbound. As i read them they can all be taken as unit in the new Darkoath faction, but with the restriction of only pick the model once. So no need to take brand to take one of the non-hero guys, right? So the new Darkoath faction actually have a bit broader pool of fighters, and adding one or two of the brand fighters into a darkoath list opens up some interesting stuff.
Also, did you miss the flamehurler pts update? seems like another decent update to finally put the nail inHorns' coffin 😅😅 RIP my 3 hurler list i guess :P
Oh I missed the crossover potential. that makes me like them a lot more since I could just take Dendrel and Gunnar in a darkoath warb. I didn't miss the flamehurler, but it is tough for Horns. They were already hurting because not only did they get nerfed, but the meta shifted away from things they prey on, like swarms.
I'm a bit sad since my Horns will really struggle now, they could have used some help too even if both nerfs where kindof motivated (the flamer more so). And my flail based STD are a bit sad. Overall i'm happy that the game is still updated regulary though, on the UW-issue I have most of the competative ones but almost never use them - just too many abilities to keep track of! :-D
I think Horns needed both nerfs but they also needed some tweaks, their midcost guys are not good and now they've got nothing really to balance it out. Though tbh my gut feel is they're still pretty strong, basically they're now feeling two dimensional.
Honestly i'd have rather seen a powering down of the flamers rather than a points increase. Give the ranged attack a minimum range and tone down the triple a bit.
@@andrewcunningham9256 Im happy for the flamer nerf, it´s realistically ok costed now if not still too good. But I disagree on the chatterers. I think everything should not be balanced between warbands, and it felt fitting that this horde of slave labourers would have cheap chaff.
I strongly agree on the mid range fighters though, they really need a points drop to give the possibility of different builds for Horns. It's still just flamers, chatterers + allies, just fewer fighters.
@@nicklaslundstrom7924 The shatterers would have been fine if they just cheap chaff but they gave them 10 wounds and a somewhat useful attack. TBH this is another one where I think instead of a points increase they should have given then a stats nerf, to keep the "shape" of the warband the same. Make em T8 and 2 attacks and they were fine.
But they were literally the same profile as a Freeguild With Spear for 15 points less and had an ability. They're STILL 10 points less.
So as a casual player, it doesn’t bother me much about the underworlds point changes, but what it feels like is they aren’t balancing their game to balance the game, they are balancing to sell models and if the pint changes make sense, it’s a happy accident, but was not intentional at all. I’m guessing they have a bunch of these warbands just sitting in a warehouse and they are using point changes as an excuse to get more sold, regardless of how it effects the game. I get it, but it still annoys me and it annoys me most that I can recognize it.
Thanks for sharing, I think that makes a lot of sense.
Almost none of the warbands that were changed are currently for sale. There aren't piles of them sitting around--they don't even make them anymore and haven't done so for quite some time.