What happened to the One Ring when Sauron lost his body in Numenor? | The Lord of the Rings |
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- During the Fall of Numenor, Sauron lost both his physical form and his fair form, returning to Mordor as a dark spirit. So, was the One Ring with him at this time? If it was, what happened to the Ring as Numenor sank and Sauron lost his body? How did Sauron manage to reclaim it later?
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00:00 Intro
00:29 Sauron's purpose
02:17 Sauron's defeat
03:32 Three questions
04:00 Did he really need it?
06:24 Should he bring it?
07:47 Should he leave it?
08:36 What the books say
10:43 How the One Ring returned - Розваги
The letter you quoted (No. 211) says
"He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans"
There it is also suggested that Ar-Pharazôn was unaware of the Ring and its magic.
I don't think Sauron was even capable of taking the Ring off further than arm's reach. In his mind, no one could cast away or neglect the Ring, including himself.
Oh cool I'm here early for a change.
Can you please do a video on Valinor? Describing what the Undying Lands are like.
Thank you Dragon 🙂
These are greatly appreciated 👍
It’s a conundrum that Tolkien didn’t concretely resolve before he died. The problem with the theory that Sauron took it with him to Numenor is that when he fled back to middle earth only in spirit form how could he have taken the ring, which is a physical item, back with him? There is a conflict between what Tolkien wrote in The Silmarillion and what he said shortly before his death. Therefore whether Sauron took the ring with him to Numenor or not is not cannon. And thus using reason I conclude that when he knew he was about to be captured by the Numenoreans he hid the ring in Mordor and concealed it under a powerful spell. It’s the best reasoning for the smooth flow of the story with the least contradictions and reinforced by the Silmarillion.
there are quotes that he naturally had it when going to numenor, and another thing in the books when the fellowship travel to meet Galadriel nobody notices her elven ring except frodo as he’s the bearer of the One; all of the fellowship can only perceive a piercing light emanating from her hand or don’t notice anything.
So it’s safe to say that Sauron was able to cloud the ring and it’s power from anyone he desired, If An Eldar can achieve something to that effect with an elven ring than i’d imagine the One would be capable of feats even greater.
When Numenor sank he could probably carry the One with his spirit back to Mordor as a being of a Maiar can exist in both worlds simultaneously
I think the ring existed in both the physical and the wraith world. So when numenor sinks it goes with him. However, when isildur cuts it of saurons body, he does it with Narsil. A sword forged by Telchar, a dwarf master smith in the first age. It’s possible the sword had magic that also could cut of his finger in the wraith world
Very good coverage of this topic
Thanks good video
My thoughts have always been why he lost his fair form, but your thoughts on the physical aspect being destroyed in Numenor makes sense. He lost part of himself (maybe he couldn’t restitute it as most of his power was in the ring) so his dark form was all he could manage henceforth.
I think Sauron spirit after the fall of Numenor was powerful enough to transport the Ring with him back to Mordor. But after his defeat by Elendil and Gil-Galad, his spirit was much lessened.
I don't comment to often but just wanted to say I love your videos, don't worry about the commenters who complain about you using AI, there is more than just recording yourself and posting a new video every day, it's a step process with many steps in between from writing to recording to posting there's lots of editing, and all of that takes days to complete so keep on doing a good job, and as for using AI for your voice that's easily explainable, when I'm talking about something exciting I sometimes start stuttering so if I was a UA-camr AI would help me a lot, that's my reason why AI voice over is useful
He may not have needed the ring to accomplish the Numenor mission, but the tought that he would leave it (the object which was holding the huge part of his own essence, like 2/3 of himself) so far away for such a long time is silly at best.
Werent all rings invisible on their owners' fingers except to other ring bearers while they also have rings on their fingers?
So Sauron in his disembodied form may have had the Ring shift to the Unseen from where he could move it, I like how you pictured that 👍🏼
Thank you Dragon! (From Brazil)
I've always wondered about this.
Sauron has the OR with him on Numenor. His entire physical form is destroyed, but his spirit carries the OR away. Isildur severs the fingers from Sauron's hand and once again his physical form is destroyed...but this time his spirit does not take the OR with him. This is the problem. The quick answer is that the OR was for a moment no longer in his physical possession. However, when his entire body was washed away, surely the OR was also "no longer in his physical possession". Tolkien's letters seem to be a retcon of what happened to the OR, but this does not check all the boxes.
Very interesting upload, and your channel is a breath of fresh air. It adds a new angle in exploring Tolkien's magnificent universe.
My 2 cents worth is the ring must always be with Sauron.
He could not leave it or remove it from himself without causing great harm to himself.
Sauron, basically placed all his power, and one could even argue his existence, essence, spirit, life, however you call it, in the ring.
That was the reason why Isildur defeated him.
Isildur, severed the ring from Sauron's finger resulting in Sauron's destruction.
And when Frodo threw the ring and was destroyed by the fires of Mount Doom, Sauron almost ceased to exist, one could even argue, Sauron died in Middle Earth and his soul went to Mandos, eternally awaiting judgment.
Perhaps a rough analogy are the staff by the wizards,
Saruman defeated Gandalf by taking his staff, and Gandalf basically reduced Saruman to a mere spirit by breaking his staff, which essentially removed Saruman from his order and all his powers, reducing him to a mere malignant spirit.
Thanks again.
thank you for your kind words!
It tends to be a twitchy subject. I wouldn't want to pour over every moment of every scene with Gandalf in it, in the films, to see if there were times Sir Ian McKellen wasn't wearing the prop, and then discerning if that was because it was just "beneath notice" as those Rings could do, or if someone forgot it. We know that Narya can seemingly "fade from sight"; that he could be taken prisoner,, or even just viewed Inquisitively by others, and their eyes, and list for loot, wouldn't just be drawn to the golden band, affixing a garnet, or ruby, upon the vagabond's finger. I don't see any reason why, when masquerading as hus fairer form, Sauron couldn't hide his treasure from view. He went out in fine clothes, to be made a prisoner. Did he create them as part of his fair form obfuscation? Dip into his wardrobe, and hope the Numenorians wouldn't just initially beat him, and parade him in rags, as the loser? Whatever, I assume he COULD conceal it, as part of his form, if he wanted to, so no one woyld deprive him of it. On the other hand, he was plenty able to sew corruption without the Ring. It didn't even exist when he fooled the Gwaith i'Mirdain, since he forged the One AFTER they forged the others, and Celebimbor crafted the Three, and while that wasn't enough to tempt Galadriel, Cirdan, Elrond, or Gil-Galad, it was here, among people significantly less under darkness than the ruling Numenorians. I think he could have duped them without it.
At the end of the day, though, I believe he left it in Mordor. If he did have it, I feel like he would have made a more active effort to escape, right at the end. Maybe we'll argue as to exactly when he lost his protean shape-shifting powers; could he have become a great bat, again, and flown across the Sea, instead of standing in the Temple, and going down with Numenor? The event was divine retribution. Did Sauron have reason to believe THAT wasn't enough to unmake the Ring, from the deity he definitely knew was real? Mordor was still full of Orcs, and worse, and whether the Ring was there, or not, no one else ever sacked it, in the 50ish years Sauron was out. The Orcs, in the absence of Sauron, weren't going to be clever enough to go up and get it. The Nazgul were under his sway even when it was lost, and could be counted upon to find it, and return it, so they weren't a liability, meaning I just don't think there were enough risky people for him to fear its loss in his absence, and while I totally believe that he could have hidden it, were it on him, he couldn't be certain that his trip would be free of peril, so he left it in Mordor, like every Lich leaves their soul box elsewhere, to reinforce that he WOULD survive. This also helps explain why he didn't just get it back from Isildur, after the king died in the Anduin. A spirit that could survive the Great Flood could follow Isildur, who wasn't even wearing the Ring, most of the time, and carry it off the same from tbe river, but didn't, and I believe couldn't, so he left it in Mordor, to not NEED to carry it back.
I'll go for a simple solution. A duplicate was taken to Numenor, with just enough magic attached to it to make it seem like the One Ring.
He clearly keistered the ring in to Numenor. S-dawg ain’t no jabroni.
The Precious might need a wet wipe.
@@Mechadondada And some therapy!
@@mikerryan85 😂
First off, I really liked this video, and it addresses something that I have pondered for quite awhile, and I think the answer is that Tolkien never really thought it out during the time he wrote the Lord of the Rings. Also, we all know that the Silmarillion never was concluded during JRR Tolkien's lifetime; it only came together when his son spent years trying to put the pieces together and sort out the evolving and contradictory versions of the separate story lines.
There are ways that one might imagine that Sauron could have carried the One Ring, while in spirit form, back to Middle Earth after the destruction on Numenor. Remember that nobody saw the Elven Rings on the ring bearers, Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, except for Frodo, also a Ring Bearer, saw Nenya on Galadriel's finger at the Mirror of Galadriel - strange that he should have, yet appeared not to see Vilya on Elrond's hand nor Narya on the hand of Gandalf -- another instance of Tolkien not thinking that part out because it wasn't important to the story line at the time he wrote the LOTR. Also, the Nazgul were essentially bodiless spirits draped in robes to give form to their nothingness, and yet they were ring bearers. So, if the Nazgul wore their rings in spirit form, Sauron certainly would seem capable of toting the One Ring back to Middle Earth in spirit form. Also, when he was in Numenor, nobody would necessarily notice the One Ring.
Can u do a video on why Ungoliant didn’t just eat everything? She had the power to do so...
Also to improve pronunciation maybe use a voice modulator instead of AI.
Ar-Pharazon probably didn't perceive the ring on Sauron 's hand. In the novels only Frodo notices that Gandalf and Galadriel have rings of power. The ring bearers can keep them hidden from others. They couldn't from Frodo though because he bore The One.
One ring likely has more power than what Sauron poured into it. Morgoth poured a huge amount of his power to the land and it seems that gold encourages greed etc more than silver or other precious metals. Seems like Sauron could have concentrated some of Morgoth's power into the ring in addition to what he poured into it.
It isn’t entirely clear if Sauron regained a physical body in the time of the LotR, but it does seem apparent that he was able to wear the Ring without said body.
Best guess? He took it to Numenor but it was invisible on his hand like those of the Elves on theirs, and his spirit took it back to Mordor.
Yes I’m aware it was cut from his hand at the end of the second age, but that may have only been possible as he was in a physical form at the time on the slopes of Orodruin.
Either that or he left it in Mordor with a trusted advisor, or in a place only he was aware of. Barad Dur was big.
In spite of Tolkien's admonition, it does boggle my mind that Sauron could literally bear the Ring in meatspace while his physical form had been destroyed (and buried under miles or rock and water along with the Ring). It seems perfectly reasonable that he would have (and could have) entrusted it to the Witch King or indeed any of the Nazgul. As I recall it is stated in the books (sometime around the chapter "A Knife in the Dark", I think) that the Nazgul would not be capable of doing anything other than bearing the Ring back to Sauron.
I think Sauron had the ring with him. It is possible for an entity not visible in the physical world to hold an object, e.g. a wraith,.hence the cloaks.
It’s not crazy to assume Sauron could have used some of his power to make the ring invisible.
By the way, he kept the ring in his prison pocket. Nobody would look for it up there. Not many would, anyway.
😍😍✅✅
Easy! He had the ring but he had it hidden unlit his body was destroyed. Then with the little power he had, he held the ring till he made it to Mordor. I imagine it like all you see is the ring and it’s being pushed through the water and travels through stream till it makes it
I think he pulled a Loki and used the ring to snoop and gather intel. He used information and their pride against them. Probably his easiest victory was in Numenor as the weakest fettered with chains. Them becoming head priest. Checkmate.
Thank you AI! lol. J/k
What part of this video was created with AI? Art? Or also writing and it audio?
It looks and sounds like almost everything. The art, the writing, the voice over…awful…
At the end of the video there is an answer to all of these things. no, I don't do it all with AI. only voiceover AI. The links to the art and music I used are also in the description. I also write the text, it takes me 3 days to do it all.
@@NFournaridis dude, you should at least look at a description, there are links to all the art
@@middleearthtales Okay, thanks. With that being the case I am looking forward to listening to your videos.
@@ThePlanetJupiter Thank you for your understanding 🙏
Nazgul have no bodies and they have no problem carrying around their cloaks and weapons, so why would it be a problem for Sauron to carry the ring?
The only thing that boggles me is if the Numenoreans were so stinking smart how did they (just happen) to forget their own history with the Elves against Morgoth, thus forgetting their bitterest foe and the very reason for their blessed reward of Numenor, long life, arcane power and amazing stature and powers of body and mind? So now Sauron pronounces Morgoth as the unknown master of death who can save them all? How could they forget Turin, and Huron, Huor and Tuor? They don’t seem to forget that Earendil their forefather, the one who pleaded with the powers and attained their help against this same Morgoth, floated through the sky at night shining forth with a Silmaril stolen from Morgoth’s own crown. If it were easy to remember only one thing it should have been what deed(s) earned them their island, and against whom it was performed. Morons.
Stopped when mf called himself Dragon
😂
He left it behind in Mordor. Silmarrilion is unequivocal about that.
No it's ambiguous and anyway Tolkien writes in a letter that he naturally took the Ring with him and used it to influence the Numenoreans
He left his Behind in Mordor along with the rest of his body.
No it absolutely is not "unequivocal". Way to just make that up outright.
@@ronniecorbett6306He only has one physical body. So, how could he leave his body in Mordor while also taking his body to Numenor?
LotR channels have very little to work with but Artwork. It's why despite my love for it I would never do a channel on it.
You cant blame people for reacting to AI the way they do. There is an ongoing collaps of creativity on youtube, old established creators suddenly sound the same using those idiotic chat gpt sentences, and then thousands of the new channels who think they figured it out. Ai will make them reach, easy.
I write for a living so I know your script is not plain AI output, but with everything that is happening expect a lot of reactions as soon as people hear ai voice. Its not your fault, but you will have to live with it nevertheless
That's why I don't blame anyone. I'm just pointing out that the video is not fully AI, I'm just using it for the voiceover.
AI. Videos created by computers should only be watched by computers.
AI is so much better than all those flat mumbling folks with no sense of pacing or drama, or worse yet: youtube voice.
Are we just ignoring "The Rings of Power"?
Mordor wasn't "created" yet then...
Yes, just ignore that DEI piece of garbage
Pretty sure Sauron cant give up the ring. He is not immune to the rings powers