I played... CIVILIZATION VII (Civ 7)! - Ep 2: Cities Are Different!
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- 2K Games flew me out to the Firaxis headquarters to play Sid Meier's Civilization VII earlier this month, and I have a LOT to talk about!
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1:27 looking at that tooltip, I cannot but envy even more the Paradox tooltips that let you see concepts inside tooltips in a delicious tooltipception.
Yeah. Hopefully, the encyclopedia will be appropriately detailed and exhaustive.
I'm pretty sure the paradox tooltips are patented.
Edit: Apparently other games have this, so I'm probably wrong
@@Blandge I'm pretty sure other games that aren't published by PDX have nested tooltips.
@@Blandge A lot of non-Paradox games have nested tooltips: Pillars of Eternity 2; Baldur’s Gate 3; Old World to name some that come to mind.
how many times you came to that?
"If anyone does say quay, then we're all going to make fun of you."
Got it, Mr. kill18
I grew up in the Midwest, and we always say Grainery not Granery
So I guess it kind of boils down to what region of the world you lived in.
👏
@@OldDood grew up in nyc and also say it that way. I always assumed the other was more british english.
@@OldDoodyeah but you're American so you say everything wrong
In Swedish it's kaj, not that far off!
Rivers are so important to civilization so I'm glad they're gonna be more important in this game.
Love the navigable river change
Yes. One of the main things I was hoping they would add
I swear that was a thing in Civ IV but maybe my memory's playing tricks.
that's probably the only good feature in this tepid, slop ridden excuse of a CiV game
No you don't. You just like typing navigable.
@@woodwyrm dude we've barely seen any of it lmao
I have been inspired to create a female-only retirement home called The Granary
Good thing it doesn't compete with my male-only Grampary.
Automated builders was the sole reason I played CIV ever. When you conquer or build a new city and its surroundings change over time... it had some magic instead of clicking I want this there. It felt organic.
I think Civ VI builders were actually the one time where builders did have interesting choices, not only what to improve first, but also importantly what to use in what way, mostly in regard of forests and tiles that could become that, but those questions were mostly limited to culture victory
Yeah, i am not sold on that change
Yah I really miss the pre civ 6 builder system. Yah it got unwieldy but it was really thematic to just see your civ be slowly developed by workers. It made your empire feel alive and really made you think about the consequences of going to war
Civ 4 also had interesting choices, namely cottage vs farm (vs, on river, water mill), mine vs wind mill, and in some cases, whether or not to build workshops in flat tiles. Plus of course lumber mills instead of removing forests.
I'm kind of sad they didn't pursue that philosophy in later games.
I like that they got rid of workers, but I think it would be nice if they offered more options on what to do with a tile when it’s settled. For example you could choose at that point to deforest a tile for one-time hammers, or choose between possible improvements.
I haven't seen anything about cutting down woods instead of improving tiles. I'm sure the option will be there somewhere in a different way.
The problem was not the Builders options, it was the fact they were one more tiny thing to keep track of, in a way that was not satisfying.
New growth system seems much more seamless and fun. I enjoyed some of the strategy of districts and builders but I did find it - combined with policies - an endless series of pointless choices sometimes which burned me out a little bit. I wonder how much adjacency bonuses will feature in this version.
I personally hated the adjacency/district system as it made settling cities and planning them out, trying to bear all the possible faction/religion/terrain/building bonuses etc etc in mind was just way too much complexity at the cost of enjoyment.
I think its a mistake to get rid of builders. Yes, Civ 6 did it wrong by giving them charges. And sure, late game they are a lot of micromanaging in Civ 5, but early game they give you something to do besides moving a scout and some early military units around. This just turns a whole aspect of the game waiting for building ques the finish inside cities. Civ 6 already had to compensate the reduced worker count by ramping up barbarian activity to an annoying extend.
Also, personally I love how workers transform the map from wilderness to pastures, mines and trading posts in Civ5. They give me a sense of control over how I build my empire physically. Sure, there was always an optimal way to build improvements that reduced choice, but surely there are ways to make worker improvements more interesting and meaningful?
I agree. I feel like this is another battle between role-players and min max neckbeards. I often find myself building 8 tiles of farmland next to a river that I don’t have the population to use, but at least it looks cool and powerful. Also I get the adjacency farm bonus later on. Civ 5 did it best.
starting at civ 1 back on an old 486 33mhx machine its sort of crazy to see this series reach its 7th iteration in 2025.
Haha look everybody he's old
@@GrantTodd-eh7ub Go play Minecraft or Fortnite or whatever it is children play now. You probably didn't even get into games before the days of choose "body type" instead of "male/female"
@@GrantTodd-eh7ub We call that experience....noob :)
Indeed. It's quite a shame the series peaked at 4 and has gone to hell since then.
@@SummitSummitStill play Civ 4:BTS to this day. They absolutely nailed it with that game.
The unique districts combining to form an improved, evolved unique seems super cool. Now unique districts evolve like pokemon? Conquer all the other civs in your game so you can catch em' all.
Fishing joke since there was a lot of fishing boat talk in this one.
I became a professional fisherman but discovered I couldn't live on my net income!
not taking the bait
This is so lame. You're just fishing for attention.
It's a joke, but a reality for many local fishermen today. Big trawlers are just vacuuming the oceans for fish.
@@SilverionX Get your torches and fishing spears boys!
I feel like there were a lot of times when decisions had to be made with workers back in Civ IV: not just the chopping, which you mentioned, but deciding between Farms and Cottages on flat ground was huge.
Or cottage vs watermill, or windmill vs mine...
Regarding builders. One thing you forget though is that back then you could build a builder in a production heavy city to send to a low production city to improve it. If I understand you correctly now the low production city just needs to grow to improve it's tile. So in the end it all depends on the food. So what about low food cities. How will they be supported by your other cities to grow faster?
I wish that sort of thing had an internal traders mechanic, so you deliver food from your food city to the one with low food for example.
Likely with trade routes
@@aldunlop4622 You do actually have that *kinda* in civ 6 atleast where trading with other cities inside of your empire both just get stuff like food and production. Though it's relatively minor and mutually beneficial as opposed to getting to dump surplus to another place, which is what I assume you mean.
I kinda agree with your sentiment about builders vs. workers. Like Workers, I understood. Each city needed to have 1-2, usually one to build a road back to the others, and the other to start improvements. But with 6, I always had to find extra time to build them in the middle of other things which was annoying. In general, I didn't like how Civ 6 seemingly pushed you to be expansionist no matter who you play as. With Civ 5, there were benefits to being tall and benefits to being wide, depending on which social policies you prioritized. But with 6, and the advent of districts, you basically CAN'T be tall unless you get incredibly lucky with your start. I feel compelled to snap up every piece of land I can get my hands on in order to build a certain wonder or have good districts of every type. It became quite a headache. I guess I got too used to playing Venice 😂😂
A cay is a small island rising from a reef, if you mean a wall or pier which you moor boats alongside that is pronounced “key” and spelled “quay”.
The word "cay" is also pronounced "key", and is often spelled as "key" in American English. For example, the Florida Keys, containing Key West. The "key" spelling is the native English one; "quay" is based on French spelling; and "cay" is based on Taíno via Spanish.
@@jdmichal que?
@@photinodecay Touché.
I am looking forward to this entire new way cities worked, I've never like districts in VI, these feels organic and natural however which I LOVE
I like the idea of the unique districts that form with both civ-specific buildings in place. Making civs feel more unique is always a good thing!
The flip side is that you always want them in the same tile, so there is no choice.
Lovin this new way of developing cities. I liked specialty districts but hated builders, and these urban districts are an improvement on the system. I mainly love the larger scale and added detail to the districts and buildings. They seemed too small and uniform in 6, so I'm looking forward to increased uniqueness with each civ you choose through the ages.
Nice to see rivers being made more important as they are major factors to settlement growth.
Builders rarely made sense to me as the population, education and resources are what defined a settlement's growth.
I hope they allow us to dig canals in the future. That could be cool mechanic for later ages to cross waters more easily.
11:12 I wonder if I can attack my enemies food towns to starve and weaken their major cities🤔🤔🤔🤔
It wouldn't make sense if you couldn't. Probably would make sieges more feasible also.
You are a dangerous man
That would actually be amazing, holy shit. this kinda thing is why I'm never gonna get hooked on something like humankind or ara-they just don't have ideas like this. they're so focused on being unique games that they ignore so many of the lessons learned over decades of civ development and end up feeling as shallow as base-game civ 5.
Oh wow the city growth/districts reminds me of how Age of Wonders 4 system works.
But age of wonders 4 still allows you to pick what to build on a tile, it doesn’t look like there’s a choice here. Maybe they will add choices before final release.
Please talk to the devs about being able to rename land features like mountain ranges, rivers and oceans if you conquer a territory! You have the power!
The one thing I hope they improve on the most in the base game is the trading with the AI. It seems that most of the time most of the features and items you need/want from the AI in Civ 6 they will never trade with you especially in the higher difficulties even when they are at a severe disadvantage.
The thing I used builders for a lot was not improvements for people to work, but locking in all the resources.
What they're doing with workers/improvements is kinda the mirrored version of feature creep. You have an underdeveloped feature that players don't find very engaging, and instead of improving it to make more engaging you slowly make it less and less relevant to the point that it eventually gets completely pointless and removed. It's kinda ironic that they're doing this to such a core feature in Civ games considering how much Civ historically loves feature creep. The actual solution to this problem would be to make a wider variety of improvements so that you're making meaningful choices when you're improving tiles.
- 5:34 - So.. with the elevation changes I see.. coupled with multiple walled tiles means.... Helms Deep?!? 🤯
Man, all this hype is going to make me download Civ6 again and forget my tests
When I've seen footage of civ 7, except from being super excited, it puzzles me how grandios newly founded cities look, especially looking at this first city here. I imagine the first city in Civ being basically a group of nomads deciding to settle down into a village for the first time to start farm the land. This city has a magnificent palace, tended gardens and plenty of whitewashed stone or clay houses.
But that's just my initial thoughts. I don't know about much of this game and I haven't played Civ 5 and 6 and seen how the series has developed. I played mostly 4.
I like the phasing out of builders
Hated them... Bouldering a comprehensive railroad network took so much micromanagement...
Looks great thanks for the videos!
how does movement wore on river tiles? Like does it cost you extra movement even if your not 'technically' crossing over the river? or it only cost extra if you move out of a river tile?
Nice river change! Finally navies might play a larger role in power projection
I have just recently been getting into Civ IV for about a month now by an old friend's recommendation. The game immediately hooked me, and I found your old Civ IV videos as a good into to the intermediate level mechanics of the game.
It's good that Quill focuses on certain aspects of the game by creating bite-sized videos rather than trying and incorporate everything into one long video, which is what all other Civ 7 invitees seem to have done. This way, with the content creator devoting all his attention to one aspect of the game, I think it's less likely for info to get accidentally omitted, and smaller amounts of info are much easier for the viewer to absorb (well, for me anyway).
And here I was hoping they would get rid of districts..... now everything is a district xD
But a slightly better one, and it's more logical - as I get it, you can build just about anything in this district, as opposed to the older "specialized" ones.
15:13 Interestingly, because necropolis is a Greek word, the pluralization is necropoleis in Greek and necropolises in English.
Glad to see concise videos on the subject. a lot of my recommendations were 1 hour + streams.
The problem with civ 6 was the escalating cost mechanic. This was a brutal penalty to new cities developing or building larger empires.
Not problem in here because there is limit in civ7 how many cities you can have!
😂
Navegable river made me think immediatly of viking raids and dutch traders, so im cautiously optimistic now
Civ specific Civic and Tech cards were something I really wanted in VI!
"Do we want to reduce the amount of micromanagement that players have to go through?"
I know there are people who inexplicably play 4X games, yet don't want to micromanage anything. I know this. But I am not one of those people. In every game, I turn off every single automation feature that can possibly be turned off. I hate them. Decreasing micromanagement is the exact opposite of what I want. I want to micromanage more things. More and more and more things. The ability to minutely control as many things as possible is exactly why I play these sorts of games. Reducing micromanagement and/or forcing automation is taking away one of the main draws for me.
I hate automation but hate micromanagement even more.
Also, having to "build" the builders is silly
These are really neat changes! I especially like the shift away from workers/builders. One less stress point
Also, im not sure if i like it that they clarely went for a humankind version, rather than a classical civ feel
I agree heavily
I was hoping they would since Humankind has a lot of innovative ideas and features, and being that its Civilization, they would be able to implement those ideas more thoroughly and make it polished like it's supposed to be. Like Humankind should have
I don't think you understand how it works...
that’s actually pretty worrying
I feel like its fine to copy features that work. Its how anyone improves at anything
The only way to pronounce Quay is "Key"
Kinda interesting that CIv is now moving in the same direction as a lot of the Civ clones, there's definitely bits here from The Old World, Milennia, etc. (not saying they stole the ideas, but more that they're clearly thinking in the same direction)
🎉 I'm excited that we have a new Civilization game coming! Thank you, Quiil18 for bringing us this preview of this exciting upcoming new Civilization 7
I hope that not every 'navigable river' is going to be a strait, but that it'll also be possible to sail up a river inland.
Being without builders or workers is so surreal to me.
I'm worried about some of these changes, but then, I was worried about some of the civ6 changes. I was worried about builders only having so many builds, I was worried about how many buildings were moved out of cities and into districts. I was actually convinced that districts would just completely change things and it wouldn't "be civ" anymore. Now, I can't imagine going back to civ 5 and having every last building inside my one city tile, and I can't see the civ 5 builders as anything other than insanely overpowered. The one thing I'm genuinely worried about here(i've only seen the first video so far, so I could well be wrong) is that happiness seems to have come back, and if it has I really hope it's taken at least some cues from the amenities system in civ 6. I don't think that was some kind of revolutionary idea, but I do think it was a marked improvement on civ 5's generic happiness meter, and going back to "luxury resource make number go up" would be a misstep imo. But again, I could just be completely wrong about all of that.
I love builders (and workers, in the past). This is an interesting change.
Looks really cool, getting more hyped for this game with each of these videos, thanks Quill!
I agree. Workers in Civ6 were way worse than in most of the prior versions.
Dude, i haven't watched a Quill video in ages, but I cant WAIT for CIV VII and this video was so good to watch. Whet my appetite even more. Thanks dude.
also...
TEAM KWAY!!!
Totally agree about the pain of having to plan to produce builders in Civ 6
Something like the Granary should be able to be placed in a Rural district. One of the other UA-camrs who was able to play the game (can't think of which one) said he wasn't able to build Urban districts on top of Rural, and ended up with a weird patchwork of districts.
I watch your content on and off, I am glad you covered this. I remember you from the days of Simcity 2013
Damn I'm getting old. I was like "Didn't Civ6 just come out?" Yeah, 8 years ago god damn.
Micromanaging WALLS? Not sure I like that. Graphics look good though, lol
It sounds like population just improves tiles which gives you more food and production. Is that all it does? If so whats the point? Is the difference between a 20 and 30 pop City just production? If true that's bad.
Looking forward to trying it myself!
No more workers is a logical progression of the district concept. Good idea
15:14 I think the plural would actually be _necropoleis,_ since the word comes from Greek, not Latin. (Another example of this confusion is _octopi_ -- the Greek plural of _octopus_ would be _octopodes,_ although _octopuses_ is also correct in English.)
I do indeed say Quay.
:)
The more I see of Civ 7 the more I want to play Civ 5. I hated the exploded cities of Civ 6 but it looks like an even bigger dose of that system.
I'm not really paying attention to all the mechanics as I want to explore those on my own when the game comes out, but man the graphics look nice. Love the forests, seas and rivers.
this is the one thatmakes me go hmm - i liked how builders changed from V to VI - and I liked the broader trees that would(or could) compliment your Civ's special skill - but having watched you and Potato play civ - it dawned on me (finally) that its all just economic valuations and maximizing those values relative to bonuses and win strategy - so VII's are to be learned
Wkll we the gods be able to build our palace , I miss that
This looks fascinating! And more logical and realistic than Civ 6.
Goof content Quill, thank you for sharing.
I have a different opinion on the builders - often they offered several choices to make - what to build, in what order should you build it, the possibilty to remove an improvement (at no cost) then all the extra cool improvement tiles which you can get from city states.....plus the fact that you can steal builders, you can explore a little bit with them and so on.
And you can improve the numbers of charges....so i think they were a very important part of the strategy.
I dunno.....very mixed feelings about this ...on one hand, a lot of the old team seems to have stayed for civ 7.....which is very good .....on the other hand ....it sure gives a lot of Humankind vibes (and that was a beatiful game, which should / could have been a LOT better and just failed to impress me .....and a lot of other players :(
It is less Game for more Money.
so not true about the workers and that there was usually only one sensible improvement choice. in civ 5 you could make a mine or a farm on a hill tile next to a river, big difference. same with trading post, which can be built on any tile. So on a forest tile you could get extra money, food or production, which could all be meaningful.
Quill, Nook and Raptor said they both saw you there at the play test. 😊
Great job with explanation step by step.
Why is it that this footage looks a lot more like civ5 graphics than what I remember from the gameplay reveal world graphics which looked more like civ 6?
lots of great stuff, thanks for putting these out Quill!
I don't think the builder charges were ever about reducing micromanagement, but instead about working better with one unit per tile.
It sounds like the complex district system is basically gone. Districts required way way too much planning up front.
The City/Town stuffs and the urban districts sounds like they incorporated things from the City Lights mod.
Game is looking pretty good as a whole. Like normal love the commentary Quill!
Thanks for another great and informative video.
Great “no builders” needed explanation. They stressed me out too.
Looking forward to when the actual game is released
I was today years old when I learned the Swedish word for dock/pier "kaj" and the English word quay are probably related.
9:50 im not sure about this: why play a strategy game, when it doesnt let me do mistakes. Choices are always good imo.
Gota say..firaxis dropped a dime treating multiple utube posters to a trip out and play
that feature is wway more interesting than the mix of culture and hero
I'm sure I'm not the only person in the community who still largely sticks to Civ 5. From your experience, will someone with a Civ 5 knowledge base feel comfortable jumping in, or should they bush up on Civ 6 mechanics beforehand?
Farm vs cottage in civ 4 was meaningful. In civ 6, i guess chop and farm vs lumberyard
Kinda looks interesting this game again
Wow hope the UI is a holdover because it looks *ROUGH*
Map/Terrain art style looks amazing.
Units look really good.
UI seems very much like a work-in-progress, but salvageable.
The leader models, however... just throw those away and restart from scratch. I never liked the word "cringe" but that's the only way I can describe them. That and "horrendous".
Hey Quill dropping a message as glad to see this pop up in my feed. I subscribed on my old account. Been following for years you got me into strategy on PC, Paradox SimCity etc. 6-8 years ago been
So the districts / worker changes were based on City Lights mod sounds like.
What about the "hated" loyalty when taking over another CIVs city? Any reveal about that and if we will get rid of the loyalty mechanic?
I'm guessing the UI is still a WiP but it seems like a step back. New district mechanics look interesting and I'm definitely interested in finding out why 'persistent' is important.
Agree. I never enjoyed microing workers/builders either. Who does?!
I still just play civ 5, building excessive roads around cities you're attacking is really cool... can't do that without workers
I loved the mechanic in Call To Power.
You had to divert a global percentage of your empire's production to a pool, from which you'd fund your tile improvements. You'd click the tile you wanted to improve, select the improvement, and in a few turns you'd have your farm, or whatever.
I'll have to experience the civ vii way to see if it works. Sounds like another good idea to reduce micro, so I'm all ears.
Especially the way Civ VI did it. Constantly having to build new units and the way to make railways was such a chore.
Why not? Adds a bit of depth to the game and also had some strategic decision making on which tiles to improve first + protecting them from barbarians...
Are scouts going to be removed in the future as well and just have the map be auto explored slowly?
All Civ 5 needed was to reduce the automated tendency to build trading posts, or even just make it modable.
Very interesting so far no mention of adjacency bonuses
Navigable rivers is an interesting thing, I do hope that it supports multiple improvements on a Tile, because it'll be very weird and annoying if you can only use the river and can't have farms or other improvements on the land you're basically not using, Something that's been a nitpick of mine for a Very long time even back in 3-4 where there are improvements that could co-exist but can't due to the way Tiles work,
Personally I always have been fond of Workers as a Unit, And absolutely hate how Civ 6 made them the most annoying and Useless version of Any game with workers, to the point I'm not playing without any mod that increases the charges, charges are somewhat interesting of a mechanic but on Workers it just never worked, I also hate the magic they performed in 6, it should be an investment of time
Cities, looks interesting but if the Wall thing is true... I'm gonna absolutely hate it because that's Not a choice I want to make and not something that makes sense historically, Walls were a no brainer Although new districts would pop up and an addition to the wall would eventually be made around it, if they use up a Slot that's going to be very annoying and dumb, if each tile will need their own investment for it, I'd be fine with it,
To me places should feel like they're growing, so this system could work if done well, again I don't expect it to scratch my itch and it'll end up very simplified but I am not negative towards something like this,
I learned a lot of my history playing 2, 3 and 4 so I do hope 7 can make me feel like I am part of that history again, as 5 and 6 hasn't gotten even close to that feeling
Stuff Civ VII where the sun won't shine.
I WANT CIV V 2 !!!!1!!!