One D&D - CLERICS Playtest | Dungeons and Dragons | Web DM
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- There's a new One D&D Playtest chock full of updates for clerics, updates to races/species, and way more. Let's go through it together!
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One of my main complaints about subclass at level 3 is they have shown in the playtest this means no 1st level domain spells, which is very sad. No disguise self on trickery domain, or speak with animals on nature domain. I think if they want to do subclass at 3rd level, they NEED to give you 4 domains spells at 3rd level, 2 1st level and 2 2nd level
I feel like either there should be 4 or 5 holy orders so the 9th level choice feels less "eh, I guess I'll get that one" or they do something else at level 9. I love the idea of the holy order though
It's playtest material, so there's no reason to believe there won't add more before release. Also it's the base game, so they could always add more in additions
I also love that they split out half of the subclass into a other choice, to make it easier to mix and match. That really makes it easier to tweak your cleric without forcing you into a subclass that has half of what you want and half you don't.
That being said, the 9th level ability is hot garbage. I already chose the order I wanted. The other two were bad choices at 2nd level, why the heck would I want to take one at NINTH? They should have a different set at 9th and either prescribe that you get another one that relates to your first choice, or just let you choose from the 9th level ones.
I don't agree the 3 we have fit three main archtypes. The 9th level allows you to become more versatile but I could see it becoming enhanced versions of the old ones.
Not only this, but the choices at 9th level should be different and more powerful.
While that's intresting they haven't even managed to balance the 3 they do have.
Love these streams but please invest in better sound. Always find it hard to hear you
I think for banish I’d run it as the creature gets disadvantage on its saving throw is it’s extra planer and advantage on it if it’s from this plane , only the one throw , means it’s far far more likely to work against thematically targets and most won’t waste spells on other targets
Thats a great solution. I will say this in the survey once it shows up. I hope they break them up in several surveys this time because it takes forever to do the mega surveys.
Dude, sort your audio
I am playing a 5e game where *all* healing is always maxed. It's not overpowered. Healing in 5e is SO weak, even maximizing it isn't overpowered.
As a long time DM playing since 1st edition, I agree with most of your observations in this video. Also bug me : Things like preparing spells from specific levels, channel divinity not being its own thing mechanically and relying on a Condition, the drop of always prepared 1st-level spells, Destroy Undead no longer destroying low level undead... Adding # of Proficiency Bonus times Channel Divinity a huge issue for multiclassing (1 level dip and you're set up to Channel Divinity like a single class cleric for the entire campaign...) ;
Banishment used to be a 7th level spell that worked on otherworldly beings only. There's a simple fix : At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 7th level or higher spell slot, celestials, fiends, and undead that fail 3 saving throws don't return...
I enjoy a lot of the changes in One DnD. Rules for Exhaustion are nice, level 1 feat in the background, more emphasis on clarification. I really enjoy the subclass progression for 3, 6, 10, 14. It remove the "level 1 dip" so often happening with cleric.
People feel that unlocking the Domains at level 3 means you are not yet praying a specific god. I see it more like a progression of your faith. You start as an acolyte of your god, but going further in the class, you start being a real devout. At that moment you start unlocking more of your god powers, and gaining ONE of their domain (because most gods have more then one domain anyway).
I totally agree with a lot of the points you made. The changes they propose for Aid and Spiritual Weapon are not great, having only a spellslot number of prepared spells is pretty restrictive at low level, etc.
I get what you're saying, but a level 1 dip in Cleric is still gonna be ridiculously viable because channel divinity.
@@cbeaird52 As it is, even at really high level, I don't think channel divinity is as good as the level 1 features some domain are giving right now. Armor proficiency and/or a really strong feature like the one of Order or Peace domain make for a good level 1 dip.
@@bozieu I mean, being able to heal without using a spell slot.
And the versatility of it.
I get it's not as hyperfocused as today's 5e design, but it's still a meaty thing to want.
I also thematically liked picking your domain at first level. It felt right to me. Picking at 3rd feels a little wonky.
@@bozieu I think you are underestimating how the channel divinity scales with proficiency bonus. If you take a 1 level cleric dip at level 10 that’s 4d8 healing 4 times a day without a spell slot. That’s way better than most current domain bonuses.
@@dwil0311 I totally agree with you. I thought about mentionning it, but I think it's not as good as a dip as before. Before, if you wanted massive healing you went life cleric and goodberries/healing spirit was giving more than 16d8 by the end of the day.
Damaging wise, 4d6 radiant damage 4x/LR is not good at level 10 and higher. It's not the worst, but it's not worth diping.
Also, I would like to point out that the channel divinity can only heal other ceatures. This means it's reserved for your allies and I like this specifity.
I do agree with you that the level one is still a good dip, but I believe it's more niche. If you take it for healing, it's a good party heal, but not as strong as the life domain dip from 5e. And if you dip for damage, it's probably not good enough to be worth it.
It's my opinion, I have not yet playtested it, but I'm about to. I send my feedback to tge survey once I did.
Banishment should be exceedingly hard to be used offensively as well as against Material Plane Targets and usually easy to use against Extra Planar entities. Higher Level Extra Planar will have some resistance, but think about it...if it weren't trivial to banish a demon back to their lands along with everything they summoned, then they would have already taken over the Material Plane.
Relatively agree so far. Technically with Scholar you could retrain your religion skill at 2nd level under the Scholar feature, but that's fiddly. I'd rather just see Scholar be "You gain two proficiencies from this list. If you already have proficiency in the chosen skill, you instead gain Expertise." Done. Holy Order should have an upgrade at 9th and higher levels.
With spell slot = preparation slots, I think they're trying too hard to strike a balance of making Vancian magic user-friendly rather than either committing wholly to it or cutting it loose and letting it drift away into the olden days like the flotsam it is. I think to some degree, what all spellcasters could make use of under this system is an additional way to study or acquire spells beyond their prep limit. As a DM, I witness a ton of players look over spells and say "That's cool, but I don't want sto spend a prep slot on it" and who can blame them! There's a ton of spells that aren't combat spells that I would love to see moved into a non-prep zone. I know I'll be crucified for this, but I thought 4e had this right by disentangling them from spellcasting entirely and calling them Rituals.
Turn/Smite undead I am frankly glad to see uncoupled from the CR system. In much the same way that Druid shouldn't be opening the MM to use monsters for Wild SHape, I don't think player abilities should interact with CR.
Unpopular Spell Opinion alert: A "nerf" to Spiritual Weapon was long overdue. Spirit Guardians is next. Banishment shouldn't be one save ends, it should be 3 save ends like Flesh to Stone. Give extraplanar creatures disadvantage on the save (since they usually mage magic resistance feature). But having NO save at all makes Banishment a far too easy end button. Alternatively, reprogram it to be like Banishing Smite insofar as if it has less than X hit points it auto fails the save.
Sublcasses should still grant 1st level auto-prep spells. Not sure why they think they can't do that just because you're 3rd level. The Life Domain healing Channel Divinity seems weak for 6th level. 3rd level life domain feature should affect any "magical healing". Not sure why they think they have to specify spell slots, as there are no cantrips that heal.
is it just me? this video was posted a couple hours ago but it seems to open in the middle of a conversation
They explained a couple of minutes into the video. Thought they were filming but they weren't.
I don't agree that it's a compelling choose, because the choose between a feat or +2 is a apples and oranges type of choose. Do you want to have more utility or more statistical advantage is a bad choose especially when you want some thing for role play reasons, but that stats are all ways the more optimal choose.
Kinda disagree on Feats. I think most of the time there's a very clear optimal pick and really the choice is do I want a "fun" thing or do I want *the* optimal one.
I honestly hope that if they still have War Clerics, they give them Extra Attack at 6th level. It's such a simple fix to the class, especially if they left that limited Bonus Action attack in there as well. A non-Fighter being able to attack three times on a turn without Light weapons? Yes, please.
I don't mind the subclass level standardization, so long as they eventually release muti class subclasses like the Mages of Strixhaven UA. Otherwise it's pointless.
I genuinely don't care about level dips and multiclassing. I tell players they can make whatever Abserd Dribus characters they want, so long as their characters have one cohesive theme. All the mechanics are just the mechanics and they can be reflavored to cover almost anything.
What I do care about is nova builds. If you make a nova burst character that burns all their resources for the day in 6 seconds you'll face a lot of creatures with magic shields or iuon stones that tank the first hundred or so points of damage you deal to them. Stretch your damage out over at least 3 rounds and give the less optimized characters time to shine and you'll have made a great character.
Divine Intervention is fine as an always works ability. I've setup my setting so that there are hundreds of gods spread across 5 pantheons of extended godly families. The gods of each pantheon have subjugated multiple immortal creatures that now serve them. The adventuring gods of the 5th pantheon have also secured the loyalty of some gods from the 4 elemental pantheons like Odin and Bahamut. Either through forming aliances and getting use of their avatars, or just slaughtering them and taking their divinity. This has let me turn the Divine Intervention mechanic into the Summon Monster system from every Final Fantasy game. When a cleric burns their Divine Intervention for the week Ifrit, or Shiva, or Ramuh, or Bismarck, or Odin, or Bahamut show up and wreck house.
Banishment was already a concentration check!
A DM could just barrage the cleric or caster until they fail a concentration check.
The ruling of the bad guy saves every round is crazy to me.
Bro i literally cannot hear you, even with my phone at max volume.
With the "why have your Cleric roll Religion?" I feel like the explanation best is "the Wizard can know quirky details, the Cleric understands the community and ethos without question".
So while the Wizard with expertised Religion can rattle off the entire lineage of some prophet, the Cleric is going to understand the lessons OF the prophet and how they influence their congregation.
Intellectual understanding of religion has very little to do with expressionsand practice of faith and devotion. Your explanation is sound.
The way I look at the domain at lvl 3 is like the OSR cleric…. It takes some time to really attune to your deity, so I’m not bothered by it. From a flavor standpoint it fits most of the concepts that as been building since the background UA was released. Everyone started at the bottom, now the cleric does as well, which confused me when I started playing 5e. It made spell casters very powerful early and there was no looking back leaving half casters and martials behind. If this is doing done in the name of balance….. good. I do have concerns as to how this will effect magic users….. specifically warlocks and sorcerers.
A single or two level dip in cleric is still really good and can add flavor to any class that has been released in the UA so far. I would multiclass a lvl 3 character in the system that is being presented to us. As it stands the table I play at does mid level and higher campaigns….. once the full system is fleshed out more we will experiment even more.
I play mostly rangers……. A two level dip in cleric to start before rolling into the ranger class would be a good fit for a monster hunter/fallen priest concept. Flavor is where you find it. I don’t see the changes as being against a single or two level dip, I see this as a balance between dipping as a spell caster vs a martial/half caster. Dipping as a spell caster had more upsides than dipping in the martial classes unless you were going for action surge or unarmored defense….. all worth the dips.
Also, whether you understand the strength of aid or not, making it temp hp is a good change. Previously, it scaled 5 hp per spell level, and you could stack temp hp on top. So you could easily inflate hp levels to absolutely massive amounts at high levels. Temp hp makes the spell still *very* useful, but no longer abusable. Again, a good change….. I don’t understand how people (not Jim specifically, but all kinds of designers and UA-cam commentors who have spoken on the UA) who have such little understanding of the game mechanics and their balance - and further, the meta ‘optimizer’ strategies, that feel perfectly comfortable evaluating mechanical balance changes to the rules.
They’re knocking it out of the park, addressing exactly the stuff the community is discussing right now.
casting old Aid at 4th level means giving characters 20 extra hp. that's more hp than than a level up gives a barbarian. that's more hp than 3 level ups give a wizard. casting it at higher levels gives even more. it's very broken, nothing else in the game gives this much hp boosting.
Yeah, anyone in min/maxing communities will tell you that it’s almost always a must take anytime it’s on your spell list.
The problem with MC dipping isn't the dipping it's the balance problems it brings with it.
Beacon of Hope and Guardian of Faith are very popular spells to use.
I'd be fine with multi-classing, if there was the following:
1) multi-SUB-classing
2) more specialized sub-class options
... I'd even be fine if there were certain sub-classes with restrictions that they cannot be multi-sub-classed into or out of
Man, that's a bad take on what WotC is trying to do with some of the class feature reshuffling. It's not that they're trying to make it sure players don't dip. They're making it so that a dip isn't a dominate strategy. The way its designed currently, every paladin has to deliberately choose the suboptimal choice of not taking a level of Warlock.
And, it the job of a game designer "prescribe how to play the game". I don't know what this point of view even is. Every design choice they make influences how the game is played, so I don't understand how you can dislike it. Obviously you aren't against rules, so how are you choosing where you're drawing the line? I'm extra perturbed by implication that the game is made worse by balancing for multiclassing. What are we losing for doing so? Why do you think the only options should be "leave it broken" or "do away with multiclassing all together"?
Addendum: Subclasses absolutely do not do the same thing that multiclassing does. Even the ones that attempt it, like Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, are bad at it, but, for the most part, there just aren't all the combinations available. And the fact that you get subclasses with your multiclass pick just enriches the texture of your character.
There's a weird noise that is in the background. It sounds like a "whirring" and then "boop boop" and continues. My xenolanguages training is a bit low but I am pretty sure that there is a plot of invasion happening soon and it will involve .
Why is the video only listed in a playlist but not as a video itself? Last video shown is "TPK: Lessons to Learn from Them | TTRPG | 5e D&D | Web DM" from 7 month ago.
With regard to subclass bloat/powercreep, aside from letting it be so long overdue, I think the handling of the Beastmaster ranger revision was the way to go- whenever new content is published, issue updates, as needed, to subclasses that are getting minimal play due in large part to their lack of mechanical potency. (or nerfs to ones that are too powerful, like Twilight cleric) Same thing has probably been overdue for salvaging a lot of the feats that have long gone essentially unused in 5e.
For Cleric in particular, depending partly on how effective additions like heavy armor availability are, I wish there was more opportunity to get a Cleric and Paladin multiclass to synthesize well.
I 100% agree that the spell schools are dumb and useless. Some of them are thematic, like necromancy, and some are mechanical, like evocation and conjuration. Fireball is evocation but the exact same mechanics that instead do bludgeoning damage from hailstones is conjuration. That's silly.
They need more thematic ones, like necromancy.
sadly, nothing in the playtest material changes the real problem with clerics: the fact that they are incredibly dull in combat. Yes, having high wisdom and prepared spellcasting means you get a number of useful things to do out of combat. Yes, the cleric has some power. But the actual playstyle of being a cleric in combat is total dullsville. You're very immobile. Your spells are mostly short-range. You have no useful reactions. Bless is amazing but is totally passive. Spirit guardians is pretty good and forces you to think about battlefield positioning (something you otherwise mostly aren't interested in), though it isn't universally applicable and creates problems at the table with flying creatures. Healing word is super dull and arguably overpowered.
we need a new idea of what the cleric does. we need interesting mechanical choices that make combat fun.
1:06:05 I mean we don't have to completly outlaw it but provide DMs with examples on when multiclassing should be permitted rather than it being standard to permit it. Myself I only allow levels in a clas you have levels in when leveling. If they want levels in other classes they have to find someone to retrain them and then they can move a level from one of their classes to a diffrent one. But truth be told I am thinking of transferring out of DnD I'm thinking forbidden lands for one of my settings and pathfinder 2e for the other.
I hate how the higher level holy order ability is just taking your *second* favorite 2nd level ability. Please, for god's sake, give them a better ability about the holy order you already took.
That thumbnail is horrendous 😂. But excellent, eloquent and well-reasoned discussion as always.
Ah, yes, clerics. The finest in divine cutlery when their arsenal is only sledgehammers and orbital explosives xD
Gonna need to crank that audio WAY up. You also have a tendency to speak too softly, which compounds the issue. But really appreciate your content, thank you.
The thing about Destroy Undead is at 5th level is the character facing skeletons and zombies anymore?
I wan't to watch these, but the audio level is just far too low. You have my support but this is a breaking quality issue.
I think to fix multi classing they could just make a rule that if you take a lvl in another class all further levels must be in that class and you can only multi class once.
I think rolling dice in what you mentioned is optional.
58:45 I would say those are more evil druids.
And yet another day passes that I miss web dm
The sounds very soft
volume level is low.
Does web dm have a video about the ogl?
RE: 50:15 I've been thinking [& writing] along these lines for some time now (inspired greatly by this latest WebDM series on the 1DnD-playtest). Those "lines" being; players having the choice of playing more of an "archetype" (one of the 4) for the first level [or 2, 3, or 4 levels], and at some point, either when it makes sense, when you choose, or based on the mechanical choice you pick to specialize into, that is when you become something other than a warrior, rogue, priest or acolyte, but maybe you join a Church/org. and are then called a "Cleric".
E.g. you come across a city, monastery, school (with library in both) or whatever, and these locations have at least one option for learning a more specialized set of class ability stuff.. This sounds somewhat confusing, chaotic and vague, but i think it could actually be a method to really organize and/or sort out things for the players. Each group is going to go through a different type of fun: game exp. mix of players, DM style, setting, [maybe different rules system]. Then there is the latest mechanical ideas promoted from "official sources" A.k.A. Tasha's Bowl of Cer -i mean, Tasha's encouraging people to do more customization of their features etc.
Edit+ P.S.
The group could decide to play this stuff out and see how things occur naturally, [say if you aren't all that familiar with the people you're playing with yet,] or you could just skip most of it and move to level 3-6ish and write things into backstory(s) that tell of what happened. Maybe some players would want to do the full play-through of those early exp. and others might not want or have time to. That sort of thing could be optional as well... all dependent on communicating with the group in order to have the right expectations of course, but...
just a few cents for thought.
On prepared spells being equal to spell slots.... this isn't about ease of understanding or simplifying the game, though it does assist in the latter.
The changes here are for two reasons.
1 - martial / caster balance. Spellcasting classes in 5e ARE a little overly powerful in comparison the martials. I believe OneDnD is restricting the number of spells that casters are able to prepare in order to lessen their god-like versatility, thus bringing their power level down a touch.
2 - Wizards. The OneDnD bard is more wizardy than a 5e wizard. At 17th level? They have unlimited access to all 3 spell lists, and can can switch out their spell selection on a day-to-day basis. Lots of people missed just how massive a power boost that is. Further, it leaves a question; what is the place of a wizard in OneDnD? How are they to occupy the 'best / most versatile spellcaster' place that they currently hold in 5e, and one can only guess are intended to hold in OneDnD? Answer; prepared spells. Throught their spellbooks, wizards will be able to prepare more spells than any other caster, thus making them the most versatile spellcasting class.
If you're looking for something similar to "Divine Intervention the class" check out a game called Errant. Their Zealot class is all about currying favor with their god to make miracles happen.
There's a few headscratchers in here like the missing prepared 1st level spells is weird, but overall I like the breadth of options now available by removing locked-in choice from subclasses and making them open choices you make in the base class. I've never played the life cleric (which admittedly was only once or twice) as a frontline character with heavy armor, so Holy Orders is a welcome change. I'm very excited to see the Warlock now (which I've played many, many more times than cleric haha)
Very quiet audio.
More like D&Done…
I am a few minutes in and this sounds like a video game. Giving you limited options at the start so you can learn as you invest more time.
Vidya
19:04 I think a big part of this is to intentionally reduce the flexibility and utility of casters. It's a big topic of discussion on online forums that casters have so much more out-of-combat utility than martials, and that this is a problem for the balance and fun of the game. This is especially because martials don't come out significantly ahead of casters in terms of in-combat effectiveness, so people are left asking what the downside of being a caster is.
Jim here taking up all of my positions on D&D... or is WebDM actually why I started to think that way? Now I'm a little confused.
But seriously, Ability Score Improvement is a bad idea. SAD-based design is even worse, though the ASI would probably be fine without SAD classes there. I'm less sure about the impact of point-buy based ability scores, but I will absolutely die on the hill of all ability scores for all classes. i.e all weapons use Dexterity to hit and Strength for damage, more Strength requirements for things, especially Heavy weapons to compensate, every spellcaster gets prepared spells based on their Intelligence, save DC based on Wisdom, and your "spellcasting ability modifier" is Charisma to represent the raw potency of your spells, or maybe bonus spell slots if we are doing those. I don't know in terms of the correct actual implementation, but SAD is cancer, and thank you for reminding me how much I hate it.
1:04:00 There's already a rule that prevents dipping. Multiclassing requires DM approval. And you got to have a better reason than optimization to multiclass at me table.
I'm normally quite on board with Jim here, but it is disappointing to hear him jump on the "why aren't my spellcasters as good anymore" bandwagon without offering any counter-perspective or alternative views. Which is a shame, I really like Mr Davis for his more philosophical and nuanced take on topics. This is the first time since the change where I really think he needed Pruitt to counterbalance his staunchly pro-mage stance on things. A rare miss for WebDM.
Prepared spells work the same for cleric in this UA as they do in the current game. The only difference I can see is they will now have suggested spells to prepare, which are entirely optional.
The number of spells prepared is different. In 5e, you are given a total number of spells to prepare with no constraints on what level those spells are, and that number is based off of Wisdom. In the UA, you are given the number of spells prepared for each level separately, and it is only based off of class level.
Huge nope. Burn One D&D with FIRE.
Do you like 5e?
What a cogent and well thought out argument. I am sure it will sway many to your side....
@@michelquintero334 Sure do!
@@Alienlover859 If you need coaxing to avoid one d&d like the PLAGUE, you need help.
@@8BitLife69 So, the thing is that 5e (although I love it) has a few issues. One D&D is trying to fix those issues with the help of the community.
Feat and ability scores tied to backgrounds, standardization of subclass progression (some people might not like Sorcerers getting their subclass at 3rd, but I hated Rogue waiting to 9th lvl for their second feature), two weapon fighting... There are great ideas in One D&D.
Of course not everything is good, but that's why they have the surveys. Don't burn it down. Let's make the game better.
But the most important thing about this game is that nobody can tell you that you are playing it wrong.
You don't like One D&D, then just play the edition you like best.
Idk, the sacred weapon nerf was needed. It was becoming a universal choice for clerics, which means its not a choice. The trade off of it requiring concentration and doing more damage, will not kill the spell. It will still be used. It will just not be always prepared. I think if any class has a must pick spell or a never picked spell, that is a failure of design and it should either be made a class feature (eldritch blast, counterspell, dispel magic etc) or be more balanced like sacred flame. I like where the playtests are leaning, and I can't wait to see more.
I think people are also not noticing that the damage was increased of spiritual weapon.
A lot of people seem to have missed that Spiritual Weapon now scales 1 damage die per spell slot, rather than 1 die per 2 spell levels. This is a *significant* power upgrade to the spell. All concentration does is make clerics have to make decisions about what spells they have active at a given moment, like every other class in the game does - it’s very reasonable, and remains a *very* strong spell. Make no mistake, most Clerics will be taking the spell. They just can’t now have spirit guardians + spiritual weapon, and still have their action free every turn to do even more stuff.
I think I have to agree with pack tactics' stance. I think the spell feels powerful but actually isn't that great and has now gotten worse. Concentration is good but it needs a bigger buff now.
@@WalkOnNick As far as I'm concerned, Pack Tactics doesn't have anything of value to say on any subject related to the game. He's a munchkin optimizer / exploiter that only cares about the 'best' options. And if you begin to design exclusively towards the most powerful options, you will design a highly unbalanced and un-fun game.
1d8+spellcasting modifier damage with a bonus action every turn for a minute isn't good? It's very good. 6d8+modifier for a 7th level spell slot is a great bonus action.