You know, when any of my American friends or online acquaintances find out about Eurovision it's hard to put the popularity of the show into perspective. It has about 10-15 times the television viewership of the Grammies and Oscars, and has only really been beat in viewership by sporting competitions like the Super Bowl, Olympics and FIFA World Cup, along with massive one-time events like the first moon landing. Quality or not, it's a massive phenomenon all of Europe pays attention to. You'd think Eurovision is deciding the fate of Europe instead of the EU Parliament.
Sure, but it’s not that serious. Many people watch it just because it’s something interesting and they don’t think much deeper about the politics of Eurovision
The Super Bowl wish they could have the same amount of viewers like the audience do at the Grand Final of the Eurovision Song Contest yearly with usual between 190 t& 200 million viewers compared to the stagnant number of around 111 million watching the super bowl in the last 15 years
Let's not forget that Russia was booed for having invaded Crimea just three months prior. In my memory, that was the big reason for the booing rather than the homophobic laws, though it could be both factors.
@@samuelgordino I think it's an excellent video nonetheless. The critique of the EBU's stance on "political statements" at Eurovision is important and well argued.
this!! i’m glad someone pointed it out! the invasion of crimea was and still is a big deal and, as someone who heard about it a lot ever since i was 11 when it just happened, it’s weird to see it get overlooked
as a lithuanian i was wondering why russians got booed while we weren't, even though there is a similar homophobic law in lithuania. thanks for a reminder of the actual reason
It was a huge thing in Germany when Conchita participated and even won. Everyone tried to seem so woke and not say a bad thing yet it was the only thing the media talked about. Never the song, never about Conchita as a drag artist, only the fact that there was a man dressing up as a woman with a beard. Maturing means realising that the eastern countries always voted for each other because they had better songs.
I've avoided media, because I never really understood the topics there. All I could hear in Conchita's song was something I'd set up to be a James Bond-intro or something similar, because of the overall feel and presentation. I DID like the fact that it made people face the existence of drag at least a little though, although it was nothing new, but still heavily glared upon with often negative opinions and such (one example is Olivia Jones who to this day must get a lot of hate for just being known for doing drag). It made people think, forced them to find something positive, in a way, because voicing a negative opinion on Conchita's entry easily led to being viewed as homo-/trans-/enby-phobic. And people didn't want to seem like that as long as they weren't surrounded by phobics or at least didn't risk to have to defend their honour.
For ages I had no idea Conchita was a drag queen I thought she was just a woman with a beard. It was only when I got a history of Eurovision book and it said that I was like "o ok"
Thank you for pointing out the eastern bloc conspiricy bs. That was the most annoying thing in eurovision coverage in the past 20 years, at least in germany. Reality is that the eastern european entries saved this competition with regard to diversity and inclusiveness and made it the fun that it is now.
@@ASAMB12 this makes me remember the jab that the host made back in 2017 was it? In their song about how to make a winning eurovision song. Idk it's been a while. But I remembered a part of the song coming a long the lines of "voting for your neighbors is a disgrace but when Sweden does this to Norway it's clearly just good taste".
yea, it's either "We must stop the Bloc Voting!" or "those darn *migrants* are the reason countries outside Eastern Europe would ever vote for them." It happens every time they even do slightly well, let alone win. I've seen people who would likely consider themselves progressive grumble about *the migrants* even when a country from the East doesn't get knocked out in the semis (and its always some song that's a total banger too :P)
Good thing Northern Europe doesn't buy into the western Europe shit. They also send serious artists and I know few regions that take Eurovision as seriously as the north.
As an eastern european, thank you SO much for making this video. Literally, no one brings up these issues and it's nice to finally hear someone acknowledging them.
I came here to say this! I seriously got into Eurovision just this year and when looking at the map of countries who won, the giant hole that is central-eastern Europe is staggering. Thank the Eurovision gods for Ukraine winning consistently at the very least.
Fantastic video! Fun fact: the first woman who wore trousers on stage in Eurovision was Åse Kleveland from Norway. She is regarded a national treasure here, and was our minister of culture in the 90’s for the Labour Party. She is pretty iconic, she hangs out in an old flight tower outside Oslo and drives around in the same tiny car that she bought 54 years ago. I aspire to be her.
Women wore trousers in Russia before anyone did in Europe... part of many national ethnic group historical attire. Also Russia leads to this day in Women in Management positions, far above EU average, and even above the Nordic states.
As a finn I also enjoyed it. I kinda hate seeing even swedes buy into this and also thinking that finland is backwards and homophobic (with the vibe that sweden is more superior). I've just recently realized how plenty swedes seem to some extent connect (either consciously or not) finland closer to being more russian and therefore also backwards. It's also perhaps to some extent also because swedes might want to distance themselves from the history between finland and sweden (I guess in a way believing that finland is more like russia and doesn't have similiarities with sweden makes it feel like nothing really happened). Just as an example, I found it hilarious when a watched a swede react to a finnish artist, who is gay, and him going "I really wasn't expecting seeing this from finland, I had the image that they're homophobic" (and for the record he doesn't say he is gay, but he picked up on him being effeminate and therefore gay, which I found kinda funny) Of course I see similiar thing happening in finland with wanting to play the whole "we're modern and support gay rights, but these immigrants don't", so please don't misunderstand me. It's just that I've gotten annoyed with SOME swedes acting like they're above us with things like this (and other ways), still holding on to the outdated ideas of us while distancing themselves from any wrong doing. Sorry for the rant 😅
@@ellem8990 Dw about it. I like hearing people's thoughts about things. I'm half finnish and honestly didn't know a lot of swedes view finns like that. I've had a generally pretty positive view of Finland and thought it seemed more progressive there than here in Sweden, in some regards. Though I recently heard that the right wing is gaining more political power in Finland too, which is unfortunate
@@aerlandsson2792 yes, right wing mostly won in the recent elections... I think they want to follow the American trend right now to strip away the lgbt rights that have been gained in the recent years. Let's hope they don't have the guts to do so. But one good news is that trans law evolved some just in time ahead of the elections! A new legislation just passed, so now one can change their legal gender without forced sterilization or doctors' approval.
@@ellem8990 I actually think Finland seems like a very progressive country with lots of unique cool approaches to education, economic equality etc. which other countries should totally utilize. Basically, every new fact I learn about Finland makes me like it more. It seems like an even more progressive nation than the rest of Scandinavia (haven't been there yet, but I've lived in Sweden and Norway)
as a swede, thank you for clarifying how much of sweden's progressive utopian image is just that: an image. if it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't true and that applies to practically everything sweden is glamorised for
I wonder how much of it is effectively a left over from the "Swedish sin" that originated from the fifties From the very basic gist of what I know, basically to foreign politicans it was too much that Sweden allowed for naked boobs to be shown on the big screen in some random film, so they basically assumed Sweden as a country was sexually immoral, and the entire package that it detailed at the time. I'm not sure how much the progressive sixties hit Sweden and my exact knowledge of Swedish queer activism is muddy, but to me it stands to reason that it was deemed more politically sound to then instead turn this infamousnes into fame. I could be dead wrong though.
@Kitty _gurl Absolutely, and my point was not to minimise the incredible privilege of being born in a country such as Sweden. But as a Swede who has moved abroad I've had countless conversations where people have been so excited to hear that I'm from Sweden because it is such a supposed utopia. Sweden has a passive problem with self-aggrandisation to the degree where we ignore systematic problems as if they don't exist (especially racism). It is not a coincidence that a right-winged nationalist party with nazi roots have gained massive popularity in the country over the past few years. Marketing ourselves as the perfect, unproblematic country has done us far more harm than good. Sweden is progressive in many ways, but incredibly behind in others. A great example is the ways in which the Swedes have historically treated the Sami population (the indigenous population of the northernmost part of the Nordics). This is an incredibly beak history that was never once approached in history class. Another example is the fact that Sweden was a leading country in terms of race biology (a pseudoscientific ideology that the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust). We have massive integration problems due to endless bureaucratic bs that keep immigrants (including refugees, and particularly non-western immigrants) out of jobs -- which has allowed the right-winged nationalist to spur this into a xenophobic narrative ("Immigrants are bad and don't want to work" etc) when in reality there is a systemic problem within the Swedish immigration system. Sorry for the rant, but yeah my point is that the glamorisation of Sweden is inherently unproductive and has lead to the ridiculous political climate that we see there today.
@@nathania9710 yeah swedification is a thing that some swedes don’t like to acknowledge it’s existance because they think it doesn’t exist and that sweden could never be like russia.
@@nathania9710 Hey now, Sami history is part of the curriculum in Swedish classrooms. We don't sugarcoat that history nor do we pretend it isn't there. I think every Swedish person has at least once seen the film "Sameblod" in class even before High School, and when we get INTO high school we literally had obligatory classes discussing racism. The world might have a glamorised image about out country but that's just not what we're taught in school
Conchita's victory contributed very much to the way I see LGBTQ people until today. I'm from Greece, a pretty homophobic country and I was around 14/15 when she won. I fell in love with her persona and her song and it helped me tremendously to be tolerant and respectful to everyone regardless of sexuality. I'm gonna go as far as to say my opinions and views on this community were shaped by Conchita. Political or not, it can help people, especially young people to be more open minded.
@@TheDopoqob Not in drag. Conchita is a woman, Thomas Neuwirth is a man. Easy as that. It's like if a guy played Juliet from Romeo and Juliet back in the day, Juliet was still a woman, the actor still a man. Easy as that.
It is also important to note how this idea of "lgbt acceptance is a value of the good and progressive west" is used in the opposite way, by a lot of individuals who live outside of those western countries, in order to portray progress, lgbt acceptance, or even the existence of lgbt people as something foreign, "eastern" or "American" that doesn't belong in "our" country and that "others" are trying to impose on "us". Again, forgetting the fact that lots of people from non western countries are lgbt or allies, this fight is fought from the inside much more than it is from the outside - and that lgbt progress in western countries isn't something universally supported and didn't happen on its own and without extreme pushback in the first place. The rights we have now were usually not granted out of the goodness of our politicians' hearts.
The most interesting part of this is that many places were more tolerant of queerness prior to European colonization. The Hijra people of south asia were originally venerated and held quite a lot of spiritual and social power, but after Britain colonized us they were criminalized for not conforming to the western gender binary. Now Hijra people remain criminalized and, like many trans and intersex people in the west, mainly rely on sex work to survive, which is often very dangerous. This is far from the only example. Homophobia and transphobia in the Global South are often both a result of and a response to European colonization. This is also the case with the anti-gay bill that was proposed in Uganda a couple months ago. I remember seeing a video essay about how that bill is the direct result of western imperialism and its propaganda but can't seem to find it anymore. I did find a video by AdrianXpression about it, which is called Uganda’s Anti-LGBT Law is 'Un-African'. Recommend watching it to get some idea of the situation.
@@zkkitty2436 this. im hindu, and i remember i was reading a scripture (Bhagavat purana) and remember reading about a king who switched genders, and alternated between male and female every month. and i remember thinking that i was normal for feeling like that. when i tried to explain, my mom just said that everyone wishes they were a guy sometimes. and i grew up a little and understood that i was lucky i wasnt kicked out of the house.
@@zkkitty2436 this is a great point. I'd also add the rise of Christianity (and perhaps other major abrahamic religions, but i don't know much about them) as something that changed cultures that were previously more open. And that is relevant because Christianity itself, like most major religions, rose to the power and influence it has today in, at times, very questionable or outright violent ways. I come from Greece, and so many Greek people go above and beyond to deny that homosexual relationships between our ancients were a thing, even going as far as to suggest that any such claims (from academics!) are "western propaganda", or shit like that. Meanwhile, they justify their homophobia on the basis of the christian orthodox religion, which they see as an integral part of modern Greek culture. That Christian faith didn't take hold on our country on its own, however. While current greek lands were a part of the Byzantine empire, emperor Theodosius 1 "the Great" essentially outlawed paganism, including the ancient greek religions, and a lot of ancient temples were either destroyed or converted to Christian churches. Believers in ancient Hellenistic traditions were literally prosecuted the same way Christians had been, some centuries earlier.
That argument is falling apart after Mexico became LGBT friendly and soon, India will join too. But hey the evangelists have Uganda and most of the Arabic world, I guess they can have that.
As an Italian I’ve never heard of Homonationalism, but it’s something we’ve been doing for a while now. Basically pretending to be a supportive country just because that’s what other countries like to hear, even though in my day to day life I hear the f slur at least once a day and we still can’t get stuff like hate crime protection and a day against homophobia. Hearing from people online it almost seems like eastern countries are actually more supportive compared italy and some other western ones, despite of whatever image you may try to push. Maybe one day we’ll get equality, maybe we won’t, but I’ll try to direct the world towards the first option
Yeah, I never really saw Italy as pro lgbt but my boyfriend found it really surprising that a country like italy didnt have same sex marriage, but slovenia did
non credo siamo noi stessi a farlo, di sicuro non attivamente, i nostri politici sono troppo omofobi per spingere questa immagine, ma piu stranieri che fanno interpretazioni dovute a differenze culturali. ho visto una miriade di commenti in inglese amare la nostra nazionale perché evidentemente vedere uomini che si abbracciano e baciano la guancia non è normale dappertutto. credo l'unica occasione in cui potrebbe essere volontario è con Sanremo, che negli ultimi anni sta finalmente puntando sui giovani, ma anche quello credo sia piu dovuto agli artisti che sono piu progressisti e alla ricerca di prendere l'attenzione delle nuove generazioni che uno sforzo di apparire piu belli all'estero, prima che i maneskin vincessero nessuno neanche prendeva in considerazione l'eurovision e la possibile fama internazionale.
It's also a matter of generations. We are only now hitting generational shift in politics around the Europe. And even then Millennials and Gen X are still pretty H-phobic. And LGBT is still pretty easy topic to pick when you need to cover up other shiet. I never considered Italy as super supportive of gay rights. Mostly a middle of the pack - far from super progressive north-west and some historically open slavic countries. I mean we do have to remember that it was part of the wrong side during Second War and the Catholic Church ruled almost half of the peninsula barely 200 years ago. The propaganda will run deep especially in less educated and older groups of people. We definitely need another 100 or 200 years for most of the Europe to move on.
Thank you for writing this, I'm a queer Italian too and Italy is not a country where LGBTQ+ people could live fully feeling protected, accepted and not discriminated. Italy is FAR AWAY from equality and it's a western country. Grazie di aver commentato, cercavo le parole giuste per poter esprimere in inglese tutto ciò che hai scritto tu. ❤🏳️🌈
Im Eastern European and it rlly annoys me how there is this narrative that all Eastern Europeans are homophobic. My Parents, espacially my father, demonstrates since his youth against the government. My whole family is against it, even tho they grew up in a very conservative environment
@@dickottel I'm from Poland and in my experience most of the young people are homophobic as well but maybe that's just regional cause I live in the eastern part of Poland where prison subculture is something that young men like to follow so it's more of an issue with toxic masculinity and nationalism more than religion or being old.
The entirety of the west has main character syndrome. Someone has to be the big bad boogyman, and if you're not on their same page right away, you're it. I say this as a member of the worst offender: I'm an American. Americans think the whole world should be, and is, America. Americans even think the internet is America. It's embarrassing.
@@Tobi-oi3ufas a fellow polish person I think it's too difficult to say whether we as a nation are homophobic or not. We're too polarised now. As more teens come out as queer, the more elders and men dig themselves into homophobic hole as a way to defend their ego and some "traditional values". I grew up in 00s and it was normal to call each other pedał or cwel. Prison nomenclature and lifestyle was very strong "thanks to" rappers and it stays strong in the same people. Homophobia in nowadays youth is UA-camrs quirky way/freak fight "tame" aggressive way (they will use microagression mostly until they find a way to go fully hostile, but it's just my view). Poland didn't had sexual revolution nor bisexual chick that used gender nonconformity as a mean of expression. So now people sometimes have no idea whether they really are queer (which is fine, everyone is trying to find themselves at some point in their lives) or performatively queer as a means to express the disagreement to the system as it can me mixed up because we're too much influenced by USA and didn't create our own stance on queer rights, sexual life etc.
As a Brit, I was deeply ashamed by Terry Wogan's commentary. He dismissed great entries before they'd even started performing, he talked over the intros of songs, he said nasty things about the contestants' looks, and he came up with bizarre conspiracies about the UK's failures. It was really difficult getting my friends to care about Eurovision because they would just parrot Wogan's views. Nowadays I watch Eurovision on UA-cam, and without the commentary it feels like a breath of fresh air.
There is still this meaness to the way the UK approaches Eurovision that is so cleary a hold over from this. And of course the conspiracy of "the UK doesn't do well because Europe doesn't like us" stands strong. When it is so obvious if you actually enjoy Eurovision and participate in its fandom that its just because the UK acts are often god awful.
It suprises me. The Dutch commentators are always super enthousiastic, open-minded and see the best in every preformance. (except when it comes to singing, then they are judgy, but that's it) The man with the black hair presenting for the Netherlands in 2021, Jan Smit, is normally our commentator. He does it amazingly!
"Block voting" has always been exaggerated. You won't win or come bottom because of the actions of a couple of countries. One thing overlooked in this video is that it can occur due to people moving to neighbouring countries for work. An alien concept to many people in the UK (as other than Northern Ireland we're surrounded by sea), but if you have a land border you can move for work and drive back to see friends/relatives at the weekend. This creates strong ties between countries and naturally would affect voting. I do think that the UK has suffered in the contest due to our unpopularity in Europe. We've had some years where we have ended further down the table than is possibly fair... But we weren't going to win (possibly just get a few more points) because we have sent some mediocre songs (and 2nd rate singers). This year I think we will likely do badly as our song is just 'alright', it's not a stadium filling song that will be remembered. Oh well... There's always next year...
Thank you for highlinging a history of how "nutrality" is a way to hold existing power and reactionalry politicst. Upsetting to see queer people being used as bludgens in raciest ways .
This is just .... so well done. Standing ovation. The anti-eastern Europe bias, the double standards of "appropriate" political messaging, the fact homophobia is STILL prevalent in all countries, the homo-nationalism and the fact that aspirational ideals of equality and protection of minorities can be perverted and used to silence, provoke and single out other "undesirables".
The talk about queer people surrounding progressivism, is mostly about proclaiming how "tolerant" they are of us. You don't tolerate things you like, you tolerate things you hate.
I'm from Eastern Europe and I've never heard about the Intervision. I told my mum about it (we're both fans of ESC), and while she forgot about it through the years, now she has enjoyed a great nostalgia trip replaying the classic jingle, finding the logo etc. Such a shame that the initiative was forgotten. Thanks for bringing it up!
Really? Although, I have only heard about it a few times from my mother I think, and our history books in school may have mentioned it due to my country's position in-between the east and the west.
This video essay is amazing. the lead is really buried by the title and thumbnail of the video - I wasn't expecting such an in depth and insightful anaylsis of race, class, xenophobia, activism, politics and homonationalism from this jumping off point.
As a Hungarian queer person, I have a feeling that the homonationalism of some western European countries is due to this weird belief that there are no queer people in eastern Europe, only queerphobes. I think it's assumed in western countries that all of us left for another, less homophobic country. The thing is though, not everyone has a choice and not everyone wants to leave, some queer people want their countries to change for the better, so they stay, hoping for the best or trying to change the status quo themselves.
Absolutely! I'm a queer Romanian and I'd love to see my country change for the better when it comes to the standards of living and LGBT rights but at the same time I can't blame all the people like me who leave because they want to be in a safer place with more rights. Hope things are going to be good for Hungary and for the rest of us here in the east.
Remember that it was in the central Europe where first openly trans member of Parliament was chosen (Anna Grodzka in Poland) and that it was in our part of Europe that queer people could live freely, where at the same time in UK, Germany and other western countries gay people were criminalised.
As another Hungarian queer person, I just want to second this. Maybe it's just the old romanticism in me speaking, but we deserve a better country, to not be deemed a criminal in our own home. The country might have gone to the dogs a long long time ago, but damn if I don't try to help prying it out from their fangs, whichever human way I can.
@@Nemamka I think most people know that you aren't Orban. Definitely other Central and Eastern countries would know it, as we have also struggled with bad politicians for way too long. Even if in Hungarian case support for Orban is still pretty significant, especially compared to for example Poland, where it for decades has been a ping-pong match between progressives and traditionalists. Heck I don't even think Orban himself believes in what he postulates. Especially after that one scandal with one of his bigger politicians getting exposed attending some "group gay parties". It's more of him playing the scapegoat game - it's easy to keep the power when people see something has been done. And LGBT is an easy target. Small group, historically opressed and accused of a lot. It's rhetoric that keeps the extremist voters in check. With economy usually keeping the middle groups, giving enough votes to win. Add to the equation that usually half of the people do not vote.
I want to thank you for your admirably proper pronunciation of Marija Šerifović's name. So many don't put the effort into getting our region's names right. I just wanted to know your effort is being appreciated.
the creator is slovenian, so that might be the reason for their admirably proper prounciation but yea, it's quite cool either way, since they do have a big international audience :)
Azerbaijani here. I was a volunteer at Eurovision in Baku and it was an interesting experience. Regarding Human Rights, it is no secret that Azerbaijan's record is the worst in the Eastern Partnership. There were attempts of queer baiting with lyrics of "gay or straight or in-between" and the styling of Tural and Turan this year. But Eurovision was a big deal especially the first year, another testament to at least formal independence post collapse of the USSR. The first act of Azerbaijan Day after Day was indeed performed by closeted gay performers, which caused some problems afterwards for the artists and it was the best performance of Azerbaijan throughout the years. But rather than boycotting access and progressive events (a lot of gays arrived in Baku for Eurovision, which was a positive) let's question the root of the problem and the fact that European countries economically support the current government as they consider it a reliable business partner. Eurovision was one of the events that was worth holding unlike European Games or the horrible Formula, which doesn't bring any values or culture. And on a side note, Yuliya Volkova of TATU is extremely homophobic and even if there is some docs about her being bi, she was probably doing that to attract male gaze. Lena Katina on the other hand has low key supported LGBT community in Russia and if you ask any Russian queer person they will prove this. So the kiss was not a real gay kiss. TATU is a band created on child exploitation and is very very problematic, in general.
I didn't know the other girl was bisexual because that clip she said in a tv interview in Ukraine about not forgiving a man kissing a man shocked me I find Tatu was created monetize on lesbian love and bring in a narrative that women are gay to please men
I'm a swede and honestly had no idea about this but now that I do I feel disgusted. Yikes. Other than that political party and their antics, of course.
It is almost as if organisers and other people who benefit from Eurovision in general had a vested interest in most people not realizing or finding out about this and put some of their efforts and resources to make it so.
I never followed Eurovision closesly but oh boy I remember the Conchita year. I even looked up her music videos on UA-cam and was so happy to see a visibly queer person on TV being celebrated. Sadly I also remember how ridiculed she was by many people. How my classmates made fun of her... Still, it was an important moment and ultimately a good one.
Here in Russia homophobes (highly intertwined with nationalists) can't stop thinking about Conchita to this day. The allusion to a "bearded lady" as a sign of western degeneracy is not going anywhere any time soon.
Conchita is what got me interested in Eurovision as a teenager. I didn't even know what she had going on, I just knew she was doing her own thing, standing out, and for that she was iconic.
@@limpchees hello fellow romanian! :)) Unfortunately, I do remember all the ridicule Conchita received. I was watching IUmor at the time and there was a whole act making fun of her in the finale.
I think it's important to understand that when Ukrainian Eurovision fans (can't talk about other countries) proclaim the values of openess and tolerance, and support of queer rights, it's not only because we want to appear modern and accepted into the cool kids clique. We use Eurovision to advance these ideas in our society, as it's known as a very gay show. It's not just a branding tactic or a way to appeal to Western Europe. Though we do want not to be looked at as inferior, we also say these things to manifest them, to popularize the idea of queer rights. Melovin, a Ukrainian artist who is shown here speaking about Ukraine being modern and free, is an openly bisexual man. It's not just an act for him for pity points. He is that kind of Ukrainian who is open and modern and wants his country to be even more accepting, because it's personal for him.
I think that vision might be a bit colonial and self-centred. “You’re pretending to be progressive to make us like you”. No, we do that for ourselves. And yes, for talking to people who don’t care much about lgbt rights, it can be useful sometimes to appeal to “Europe”, but that’s a battle we, “the gays” are fighting first of all for our own future.
Yeah, that whole part in the video gave me a bad vibe too. I'm from a part of the world with a large history of colonialism (Latin America) so I understand your perspectives very well.
100% agree! Also it popularized gay shit in Ukraine, growing up everybody loved Verka Serduchka, but only recently I realized it’s drag! And she was in every New Years Eve tv show for my whole childhood. Her art&gender wasn’t question single time by Ukrainians, It just gives me hope
This is a very good video, but it fails to mention two important points: 1- Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, not to mention the invasion of Georgia in 2008, which pointedly did NOT result in the exclusion of Russia from the competition. 2- You can't talk about the birth of Eurovision without mentioning that it was explicitly created to mimick the success of Italy's most popular music festival, Sanremo.
@@HOPEfullBoi01it's really crazy because it not only did prove one of their points that they mention in this video (the one you mention) but two (i mean that they go in favor of western country rather than eastern ones) like it's crazy to me also i think Switzerland won because of political reason not because the representitive was nonbinary but i don't feel like typing it 😮💨
There's a lot of context being ignored in a few of these clips, maybe not intentionally but certainly irresponsibly. Like for example near the start, in 2014 when Russia was getting booed to oblivion, the gay laws *might* have been part of it, but so was the invasion of Crimea which was literally *two months* before the contest. Similarly the clip you show from 2015 when the hosts remind the audience to put music above politics -- this wasn't to do with anything gay in the performances, as you insinuate; it was because the Russian artist was getting booed every time she appeared on the screen, again because of geopolitics (and her song). You make a very good point about the hypocrisy and racist chauvinism of Western broadcasters but in the case of Russia there were definitely other things going on besides the gay laws.
Yeah. The other issue with the juries being reintroduced in the early 2010s was also because the performances were becoming more and more outlandish to be memorable. It wasn't necessarily queerphobic -- it was more that there was an arms race to see who could be the most strange to get people to remember them. The juries have to have rigged the most recent contest, but it doesn't mean they're some sort of nefarious conspiracy. Also, as someone old enough to remember the fall of the Berlin Wall, I think the commentator here plays up the West bad, East good narrative too much. It's setting up divisions where we should really be tearing them down -- substituting one blunt narrative for the opposite doesn't make anything any better; it just alienates another half of the population (and I found the comments about Britain highly offensive as well). We need a more nuanced narrative on both sides. That you feel the other side has a genuine case to answer doesn't mean you can replace bias with bias. To be a good content creator you have to really look into the bigger picture and analyse things more carefully, rather than just sensationalising them in the opposite direction.
I wish this comment was further up. The tendency of leftubers to brush over the very violent geopolitical conflicts Russia was engaged in the past 20+ years is tiresome. The only thing they aknowledge is homophobia. Not the systemic racism, discrimination against indigenous people, neoimperial expansion (’soft’ or militarised), support of extremism in neighbouring countries...none of that.
The Crimea thing should have been mentioned. That's enormous. All of it should have been mentioned. I agree that parts of this did seem misleading because they neglected really important context, like the invasion of Crimea (began in Feb 2014), which was unquestionably an enormous influence on the voting that year (final in May 2014).
Eurovision being apolitical is so funny cause there have been a lot of songs shitting on the EU, about actual wars or invasions, the alliance theories (the fact people take it that way alone) Russia being banned (not the only ones I think) This is a really interesting video and despite being a Eurovision I actually never thought about much of this (or knew about it) so thank you for making this! Edit: So in short, Eurovision can be political when that will work uniting + it's a tool for othering/selfing.
I’m kinda glad that a huge international show as Eurovision is embracing gay people. I’m not gay but I come from a homophobic country and if I was gay I’d want to be acknowledged too. Greetings from an Azerbaijani.
Yeah, I don't understand how BBC would allow that guy on air. Though I'm not British, but Finnish, and Marija won in Helsinki. She was such an icon already at the time.
Might I just add as a Serb that your pronunciation of Marija Šerifović’s name was SO GOOD! I can see you actually tried to look it up and not just pronounce it “in english”. The name of the song means “prayer” and it’s very VERY romantic and some could also say sexual And yeah she wasn’t out as gay back then but no one was surprised when she did, and it was so strange watching my homophobic grandmas and aunts still liking her after that and even excusing her “gender-non-conforming” way of dressing, the thing they are to this day not approving in me but at least it gives me hope. for context i’m a cis hetero woman tht just dresses what’s considered either masculine or just “like a clown” and normally I don’t enjoy pop music but that year that Marija was a contestant it got me into Eurovision
Watching this after Eurovision hits right on the mark, exactly what happened. As a Croat, my feelings towards the jury and Eurovision have soured forever. Western Europe will always look for a way to exploit us and make themselves look better.
@@lo4568 Pa u sličnom smo kontekstu, samo pogledaj američke medije/serije - ako je negativac Slaven, ili je Rus ili je Srbin. A što se tiče Eurovizije, vi ste uspjeli već dvije godine napraviti pjesmu koja mi se prvo sviđa ironično pa onda neironično 😂. Svaka i vama čast pa sada idem zbog toga što "samo mi se spava", jer ipak "umetnica mora biti zdrava 👏" 💖🎶
As someone who absolutely adores Eurovision, it always made me laugh when people complain it is "becoming political" when it has always been. And I love the way you defend Eastern Europa. Imo Eurovision is great because of Eastern Europe and their music (I myself am Dutch) and thank you for highlighting problems with Israel and Russia. Great video!
From everything I've seen, (which isn't much tbh, I only started being even mildly interested in Eurovision like 2 days ago) people, at least in comments, complain that it just "is too political", not that it "became too political". And that's fair to dislike imo
No, it most definitely has not always been political. Yes, there have been (very rare) political scandals from (usually no more than) one country in a given year every few years or so -- but these controversies were almost ALWAYS to do with the voting process until the 2010s. See when 4 songs tied for 1st place in 1969 or when t.A.T.u. got 3rd place in 2003, or when Switzerland beat the UK by just one point in 1989. Or when Sandra Kim won in 1986 and caused an uproar because she was only 13 at the time. All "office politics" types scandals. All huge deals at the time. All starkly apolitical (I terms of actual politics). Aside from that, the vast majority of Eurovision songs, videos, and performances have been starkly apolitical, with only very rare exceptions of political songs whose messages have almost always been about peace (see Ein bißchen Frieden in 1982 for the rare political song, whose political messaging was only promoting peace). I could make a list of all the obviously apolitical songs performed in Eurovision since it's conception in 1951 and tally them against the (infinitesimal amount of) political songs before the 2010s to prove my point, but we'd be here literally all day. It has only become woke and expressly political for the majority of songs, performances, and most importantly in terms of the performers themselves in the past decade or so.
@@IDontWantThisStupidHandle ''let us bring Europe together with the voice of music'' is expressly political. Even the inclusion and exclusion of some countries is political because it implies ''europeanness''. The entire event is state funded for gods sake, how is that not a political question?
I was in Austria when conchita won. The next day I talked to some locals about it and asked if they were excited to win. They said no because they were embarrassed to be represented by a drag queen. It wasn’t that progressive there
@@idnwiw Yes, because cities are well known to be paragons of virtue and not at all cesspits of degeneracy 🤡That's like saying Rome was celebrating something when the Empire was falling while the 99% of other side of the Empire was disgusted by it 🤡
I noticed all of this when I had a Eurovision re-watching phase 2 years ago. You perfectly summarised Eurovision's political history. I've always thought that the introduction of juries was high-key racist and was indicative of the way in which Western European looks down on Southeastern/Eastern Europe.
@Erik Johansson. Did you not watch the video? Eastern Europe and Western Europe aren't as different as people say. There are plenty of better places on the east than western countries. For example Czechia, Estonia, Slovenia, Slovakia and almost all others. It's also cheaper.
@@yamataichul I'm in Macedonia, their acceptance of queer people could be better but I have not encountered any open hate, and legal protections are pretty good.
@@erikjohansson2703 Cost of living mostly, but I actually enjoy living in Macedonia a lot more than I thought I would. There is still a real sense of community and helping your neighbours here, in stark contrast to the west.
There was a series on the politics of Eurovision some years back, and they told a story about I think the Croatian artists in the nineties literally risking death to make the flight to make it to the contest. So it is definitely true that the countries that take it the most seriously aren't the permanent members of the Eurovision security council.
@@imsohappy303 yes, they were the Bosnian artists. It was Fazla, they had to escape the country while literally being shot at to make it to the contest. Also one of my favorite Eurovision songs of all time.
@@sileylav Oh i heard that story. At that time the performing artists had to do so with a live orchestra at the ESC and brought their own conductor. I heard they lost theirs while fleeing the country. Do you know if the guy survived?
This video should be mandatory viewing for any eurovision viewer in western Europe. I think what saddens me the most is how many of them don't even realize how xenophobic they're being towards eastern europe. They're not intentionally malicious, they've just spent their entire lives being told and treated as superior to the east.
tbh western countries really are superior. no one is perfect but Eastern Europe is so shitty about human rights and I live here and I'm angry and hopeless.
@@dickottel so that's a local matter that hopefully sooner rather than later will be a thing of the past. it's not a reason for the western countries to treat eastern countries like lesser than them. besides we all know the views of the members of the government often don't even align with the views of the regular people.
@@themeltedchocolatesadly they do align a lot. Have you watch the latest video on this channel, about the client wanting the sex worker to feel empowered no matter what? That’s what you’re doing with eastern european countries tbh. You can be not xenophobic without brushing aside horrific systemic problems in these countries as some small ’local’ problems. Then as someone honestly expresses their despair you pat the on the back.
Nah, i've seen some bigoted shyte from Eastern Europeans as well. There were songs on which the comments were things like;"only we can make this", "no westerner would dance to this", "they'd never vote for this", "they just don't appreciate good music" etc. etc. I had poured my votes into that song & was not the only westerner to do so. I've danced to that music, had visited parties with those types of bands & been to concerts. It's like the concept of touring was alien to those commenters... And to be frank, yes i do consider myself absolutely superior to Serbs that go online & threaten people from Kosovo;"just wait until the UN is gone" with a gif of a rolling tank beneath it. Not to forget those that support the ruzzian attack on Ukraine. Humans are humans everywhere, including the bigots & those that are (willfully) ignorant. * every "quote" here is paraphrasing what was said
I am trans and my parents made a huge deal (negative) when Conchita won the contest, because it's absurd and weird and whatever. That's when they let me know what would happen if I came out. I am an adult now and I have never come out to them.
I mean, considering that children do watch it.. They probably don't need to see a man with a beard wearing a dress win a contest that should be based on singing rather than pushing the lgbtq agenda.. coming from a person part of lgbtq btw.
Oh god mate, I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’m gonna try and give you a hug over the internet if it’s okay. I know it’s not really like a proper hug but yk, if you ever want some comfort then 🫂
Remember there's no right or wrong in coming out, do it on your own time and when you feel safe. It's good you saw their reaction to Conchita before so you could make your mind about it, but also people change and act different when it comes to close relationships. Keep assessing their views in a safe way.
As a queer Armenian who grew up with Eurovision, thank you for speaking up about the pejorative attitudes of the West towards our countries, and how we would try to compensate real hard to pass as “true progressive Europeans” even if we never will be accepted as such by them. It has always been a rigged game and has always been political from the start and everyone is basically conscious of that. Nevertheless you cannot deny that its pretty iconic and there have been a ton of great memorable performances. Great video!! ❤
Рік тому+61
It doesn't often happen for Slovenia to be mentioned so many times in a youtube video! Hvala, Ada :D
I was so surprised when I talked to western europeans and they either didn't care about Eurovision or forgot about it. Eastern europeans have been loving it for decades. I still remember some earlier 2000's entries even though I was a kid back then.
That's odd though. Here in the Netherlands, maybe it's because we are like the most gay country on earth, it's a massive thing and everyone talks about it every year.
@@Eutha no, no, no, it was already before that that everyone talked about it. There was a time when the Dutch public had completely lost interest in Eurovision. I read that somewhere. But I'm 17 now and as far as I live/can remember it was a big thing here (I also read somewhere once that the Dutch public became interested in it again somewhere in the 2000s which sounds reasonable, I was born 2005 ;) )
For us in Spain, we loved eurovision but we were so tired of always having shit entries and not be able to decide who our country was sending, so the ones who still followed started just celebrating every time people gave us 0 points, until Eurovision Spain decided (last year) to give us the vote again, and at least we had two years when we are allow to send someone we are proud about (Chanel and Blanca Paloma).
As a biiiiig Eurovision fan who is also a queer Russian living in Germany... yeah this one struck a chord. You've really captured some of my frustrations with Eurovision over the years, and also brought light to some things I didn't know of before or couldn't properly contextualize. Great video!
Well, my friend who really likes Eurovision said about that: Eurovision is how all of Europe wants to be seen by the rest of Europe without having to put in the work and effort that is needed to actually be like that. I mean, if you just look at the whole show: It's a big party, everyone has fun, everyone gets celebrated, the crowd goes crazy to every act and all is about celebrating music and performing and the other artists and yourself. And then BAMMM! Reality in your face: the voting and the ranking and all the happy-go-lucky joy is over except for a chosen few.
I'm from Italy, and the Italian song contest which decides our Eurovision contest has just ended. It was tragic. A Singer said "stop genocide" and all hell broke lose. No names were spoken, but an israeli ambassador complained about "inappropriate messaging", and the following night a message stating clear and explicit solidarity with israel was read on live tv, and the singer's declaration was cut out from streaming platforms.
OMG That was eurovision national contest? I saw a clip on tik tok and didn't know where it came from....anyways I'm from Greece and I'm glad that at least i discovered Ghali
2014 was the first time I ever watched Eurovision, while in Ireland with my conservative, homophobic American military parents. We aggressively rooted for The Common Linnets (who I love to this day) and when Conchita Wurst won my dad declared it was the downfall of Europe, that Satan had a grip over the world, that it was proof everyone needed Jesus. As a very closeted, very afraid baby bisexual, I never really forgot or knew what to process about that moment. But I literally never forgot it. To this day, when someone says LGBTQ or gay, my very first mental image is an Austrian drag queen surrounded in flame, singing Rise Like a Phoenix.
I also still listen to "Calm After the Storm", such a great song. Side note: I love how sincere and personal some of the comments are, and how people relate their own experiences to various ESC highlights. Your dad's reaction is totally understandable, lol. Conchita's win was cutting edge almost 10 years ago.
In my experience, the word 'apolitical' often means agreeing with whatever politics is agreeable -- so long as it's status quo. Loved this!! thank you! It was super cool to learn about the history of a show that's an unshakable part of my childhood
Went back to this video after Nemo won the 2024 Eurovision. The ESC official account posted a picture of Nemo with the non-binary flag with a caption supporting them, yet kicked a Eurovision fan out for using that same flag and made Nemo smuggle their flag in since the EBU said he wouldn't be allowed to bring a flag representing his own identity on stage because it was apparently "too political" for the contest. Much to think about.
@@dadgbe4834 it was definitely not both, because you would have booing for all the other countries that have been pretty restrictive against LGBT over the years. At least not on the same level. It was always just general hate against Russia (who did F half of the Europe with Germany, but opposite to Germany it never actually tried to fix things). Then they started the war in Georgia and then in Ukraine, which has been the main issue since annexation of Crimea. LGBT or even just woman rights are also big issues, but not for the average European who watches Eurovision. Especially as Russia already was pretty oppressive against those groups.
@@mjm3091 It was definitely both. The average ESC viewer watching at home is not the same as the average ESC fan who is booing *live in the arena.* There are always tons of rainbow flags in the audience and there's undeniably a disproportionately high amount of LGBT in the audience. Even in 2015 during Polina Gagarina's performance, people in the audience were holding up their rainbow flags as a silent protest against Russia, even though the Russian anti-gay propaganda law was already introduced 2 years prior to that, in 2013. It was a very severe thing that most LGBT people definitely did not forget, and still haven't forgotten in 2023. It was *definitely* a mix of both: The anti-gay law and the Crimea invasion. Denying that is just delusional.
I won't lie, I was scared to watch this video due to the stigma surrounding eastern european countries and the constant bashing people from those countries receive. Suffice to say, I'm so glad I watched this! Thank YOU so much for pointing and laying out every point so well!
As a swede, the issue of using the heir of progressivism as a symbol of nationalism is a real issue. We always get to hear about how democratic, inclusive, and environmentally friendly we are, while ignoring real issues in the country. I’m glad to see you bring this up. Great video
Yup, Sweden looooves doing the talk but never does the walk. It's such bullshit -.- to hear them say shit but then never act on it. And when you critique them on it, they ignore you.
@@TheRedAzuki Sweden does a fair amount of walking, it's just that with how bogged down seemingly the rest of the world is, it's easy to paint Sweden as going super fast when in reality it's not even really jogging.
As an immigrant to Sweden (coming from Germany), I really noticed the nationalism that's built around their "outstanding progressivism". The amount of times people have told me that "Sweden is the most progressive country in the world" and how they're much more accepting than other countries (US, Eastern Europe) and then turn around to ostracise people over "not integrating into the culture" is insane, and they're genuinely blind to the discrimination that goes on here. People don't yell at you in Sweden, they freeze you out socially. Which, as a trans person that faced a lot of discrimination in my home town growing up, is still an improvement - but let's not pretend this is a holy land where we have solved discrimination and differences. Swedes aren't better people, they're just more politically correct about it. I will never be Swedish, never "one of us", but I can at least be myself a little easier here. It's something, I guess. But we have to stop pretending.
Du där. Du har några poäng. Att gnälla över att migranter inte integrerats in i samhället är inte så värst produktivt men det finns ett korn av sanning i det. Anledningen till denna segregation är mest beslut från miljonprogrammet och des konsekvenser. När de byggdes så flyttade fålk dit. Efter type ett år så hade alla etniska svenskar flytta därifrån(När jag säger etniska svenskar så menar jag kulturella svenskar). Så händer Yugoslav krigen, Arab våren, Syrien. Och boom du har biliga bostäder som är segregad från medel svensken.
The Dutch are EXACTLY like this too, and it's the main reason why here in the relatively more conservative Belgium, people tend to find them insufferable. The constant superiority complex, if you don't think like them, you are a backwards barbarian.
32:15 - just a reminder that russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 with occupation of Crimea; the 2009 pink tank Eurovision in russia was held during the ongoing war in Georgia; and russia has been occupying a part of Moldova since the 90's.
As a Russian queer bisexual - thank you. Just thank you. I really wasn't expected that deep and gentle analysis on Eastern Europe lgbt topic. Usually you hear much more... harsh things
I am Turkish and we took Eurovision super duper seriously and sent in people we truly thought were up there as singers. And we have 2 victories. I have almost always disliked UK entries, and ironically I love so many UK based artists. I mean, my favourite band is Depeche Mode!
we stopped participating years ago but our people still keep going back to our past performances and even us teens know almost all of them which makes me shed a tear to be honest
my mom has a big problem with Eurovision for this and honestly so do I. as a queer person from Finland seeing how judges twist the narrative this year saying that because Finns are close to Russia geographically, we are homophobicc and transphobic against this years Swedish contestant, Loreen. Objectively Loreens song was bad and the way it has gone this year with Loreens overwhelming success, after she won it was said that Sweden was disappointed in Finns for not voting for Sweden. After they won!! I hate when queer people are used as a tactical move in competition. We are human, we win and lose, we make beautiful art and bad art. We are not a political ploy in rainbow washing. At least we shouldn't be. Loreens Euphoria was a hit, but Tattoo was a miss for the most part. Nothing against her but the way the event is manipulated to fake progressiveness. I have lost my point somewhere but I hate how Finland is made to seem homophobic. Are we the most progressive and revolutionary country in the world? No. But our norm isn't hate crimes and we look down on discrimination. We are leaning a bit too far into blind acceptance in the political world. Its a mess, but I can genuinely say that no one here dislikes Loreen for her identity in any aspect. We live in our world and like music that we like. Most of us don't care about politics. Im going to stop talking
@@jeil5082 Don't forget the actual cultural appropriation of Finnish things that is going on in Sweden right now as we speak. They sell Moomin merch in their tourist shops claiming it's actually Swedish. They sell Finnish war memorabilia claiming it's Swedish and it was actually Sweden that fought the Soviets in the second world war... and sauna, is actually bastu.
@@Carissa99Xo I feel like I have to add my point of view to this because I as a 19 year old Swede I have never thought that Moomin was Swedish and not Finish nor do I know anyone that thinks so. "They sell Finnish war memorabilia" I have no idea what memorabilia Finish or other we apparently. Finally the word bastu from what I've heard from my ethnically Finish teacher is that it comes from the word badhus and when Saunas were introduced to Sweden they bacame part of the badhus and turned into the word bastu. I feel like Sweden and Finland don't realy know too much about echouther even tho we're close neighbors. This seems to manifest to both feeling like the other one looks down on the other and in turn starts to dislike echouther. My general view of Finland is not bad and I belive they do a lot of things better than Swedan.
@@jeil5082 People thinking if you didn’t like Loreen you are homophobic are dumb. Loreen just didn’t have a great song. Even my countries song was better this year imho (because of you by gustaph).
@@jeil5082 I’m a queer person from Finland too! That claim is so insane to me for many reasons but one is the fact that Finnish people mostly televoted Norway and their representative Alessandra is a bisexual woman just like Loreen. Yes such horrible homophobic action, not giving points to a bisexual woman and then going and giving points…to a bisexual woman
Bro the same is happening to France. The commentators are always complaining that countries are voting "politically" and that they shouldn't vote for their neighbors but when Belgium or Switzerland are giving points to France they are all like "YES THANK YOU NEIGHBORS!" and saying things like "well done Belgium, vote for Belgium, vote for our neighbors!". The hypocrisy. I've stopped watching french TV a long time ago.
ofcourse the 30% french swiss would vote for france. The same way the 60% German swiss vote for Germany, or Austria. We share similar culture, the same language, the same looks, and for the younger population, we all watch the same UA-camrs/streamers. There will always be a gap between languages and ethnicities, French & German swiss will never be as close together as swiss & germans, austrians or french & swiss french.
I'm Israeli, so i was totally oblivious to the east vs west politics of eurovision, but i would say that when we sent Dana there was protest from rabbis and haredi memebers of the knesset. It was a very big thing, concidering that the first of the famous big Tel-Aviv pride parades only occurred a year later. Queer Israelis owe so much to Dana.
As an american who doesn't know much about Eurovision, this was a fascinating deepdive into the weird xenophobia and the pseudo political warefar that goes on
Fun fact: Verka Serduchka's(Andrey Danilko) song "dancing Lasha Tumbai" created controversy in Russia due to the chorus sounding like "Russia goodbye". Danilko insisted it was a Mongolian phrase and it was also theorized that the song was a reference to the Orange Revolution of 2004-2005, when Ukrainians protested against the pro-Russian president who rigged the elections. Since then, in 2022, Danilko officially changed the name of the song to "Russia goodbye", saying: "You wanted to hear it, you will hear it".
I'm a nonbinary butch lesbian American whose parents are ussr immigrants, I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, anything queer was a sin, and yet my mom loved Verka Serduchka, they were my first exposure to gnc queerness that I ever saw, and seeing it be celebrated meant so much to me at the time, and now with this video you've introduced me to that fabulous gender bendy Serbian performance by clearly a butch lesbian and that brought me so much joy. Even now with me distancing from my family and living my best enby butch lesbian life, I still rarely see butches celebrated and just anywhere on media even here in America so finding those two performances and watching them all the way through was so meaningful to me.
With how much is a sin according to Christianity and how much many popes and bishops didn't care about their own sins it's amazing how the religion lasted 2000 years.
I always though Verka Serdiuchka was a woman. We had them on every new years growing up, and loved to dance to their songs (we don't celebrate christmas) - so she's a staple of new year celebration and mood, like frank sinatra's let it snow in my head. Then in my teens I found out they're a drag queen. Welp that new year song just got even more funky.
@@arnaeri9290 I knew Verka was a guy from the very first day i saw him on russian tv in the late nineties. According to my dad he was part of a mixed teen singers group 'Pazany i Pazanki' in the late 80s with always changing members, and then in the early 90s he was a one hit wonder as a soloist (there was this trend singing about flowers, 'yellow tulips', 'rosy roses' etc and he had a major hit in that area), but was more popular at the KVN comedy show where the current ukrainian president was a big shot too (for those who are confused now: Selenskij was a tv comedian, and at one of his shows he made a joke about running for president. People liked it so much, that he actually DID apply for the job, still as a joke. People liked THAT so much, that he applied seriously than. And people like THAT so much, that he is where he is now - and the russian president still doesn't know where he is). And there he first introduced Verka among other personas of his. He was rather popular at this show, cause singing was a big thing there and he was a great singer. Apparently Verka was his most popular persona so one time he just went on and started a music career as this persona. And the rest is history. Fun fact: Andriy Danilko was born in Ukraine, but like most (post) UDSSR artists he lived/and or worked from Russia aka Moscow, cause it was more efficient, especially for being on different shows. When his popularity was on the peak in the mid 2000s in Russia, there was a big discussion if he should go in for Russia (where he was actually living and working and celebrated like a king) or for Ukraine (still his nationality and home country). The decision was quickly made in the end, but for the most simple reason: televotes. One can not vote for your own country. And Russia has much MUCH more people who were willing and DID vote for him than Ukraine.
i’m american but my mom is french, and she’s told me about how frustrating it is that the western european nations discriminate against the eastern european ones. she also doesn’t like how many eurovision songs get performed in english bc it feels so homogenized. i somehow have still never seen eurovision despite being gay, somewhat european, and a theater major, but i’m glad i got to take a closer look at the politics thanks to this video
My Father was from Hungary and my Mother is of French Canadian heritage. Her first language was French. I have seen the disrespect Eastern European people get and it's disgusting. Our TV shows when I grew up in the 1970' s and 80's had only a few Eastern European characters. They were communist spies, prostitutes or gangsters. Perhaps that's why I never saw myself as a real American. I never fit here but I also would not have been accepted there ether.
Apart from being a lesbian, Maria Šerifović is of a Roma minority, who win in a year that was declared a year of Roma culture. Above all, the newly established democratic pro-western government in Serbia was at that time, unlike now, very supported by the European Union. I think it was a combination of these facts that led her to victory. She continued being successful in the region and among diaspora all around the world.
Ми смо побиједили 2007., а почетком 2008. албанци на Косову и Метохији проглашавају независност. Занимљива је чињеница да нам је Финска 2007. дала 12 поена. Мислим да никада више то нису урадили.
I hope the current almost fascist government will be a one off and that Israel and Palestine can just melt together into a shared Abramic state. Like a true democracy ruled by a secular government. That regardless of religion every citizen will be treated fairly. But in our current world it seems like a distant fever dream. Edit: typos and fixing of my drunk grammar.
Truth is Russia was so queer after Perestroika. When I was a kid then teenager (1991-2007) I would see so many queer artist, gay movies and talkshows about gay and trans issues on TV. It wasn’t safe being gay in Russia. But it wasn’t banned or demonised in media. We even had cute movie about w/m/m relationships that included racial minority. It was getting better until Putin started his anti-gay campaign. Now it’s like a prison here. And it’s sucks because younger generation don’t have access to info I had when I was kid. They won’t see positive representation on tv or in cinema. Also our Eurovision broadcast is now super censored so I don’t watch it. I believe many countries feel the same. Turkey and Poland wants to put anti-gay laws into action too. I assume Belarus will join too considering they had their own bigoted dictator.
Russia was so incredibly gay. Verka Serduchka was absolutely huge and nobody made a huge deal about it. The current Russia culture war about “family values” is top down and fabricated.
@@ekattri Exactly! Not to mention Verka is Ukrainian artist but she was so popular and loved here. Putin caused so much damage by his actions. On so many levels.
We love the Russian people, your government may be scary, but we see you and love all you have to offer. Our government is getting scarier by the day, but that doesn't change the fact that there are wonderful people here. Love from the USA! (Texas specifically)
@@madelinequinn5879 thank you! It's nice hearing such nice words from people all around the world. It's so scary to see how quick people are able to start hating each other when someone tells them to.
@@vlad5042 partially that one can do this, because propaganda works and there are a lot of people in reality, who support all this, among young people as well, and many go to the front willingly. But that can almost never apply to the whole nation.
Went into comments to say that. It's nice to hear something good about your culture occasionally. Russian queer culture is awesome, I hope to see the day it is discussed and studied openly and safely. (And without people killing and being killed in wars)
Being an Israeli queer, it's a painful watch. Our community is under attack from far right politicians and there's a raise in anti LGBT crimes, and at the same time we're being used as a prop in a show for the world to see and think we're so progressive. For the first time in my life, being out and proud seems like a risk, even commenting online might feel risky soon. It is also worth mentioning, that it's widely known today that Israel spies on LGBT folks in the Palestinian Territories. Former members of Unit 8200 of the intelligence corp came out a few years ago, telling the press that they were asked to spy on Palestinian civilians, to extort to expose them if they won't cooperate with the Israeli regime. I have no reason to believe it changed over the last several years.
yeah Bashar Mourad is a palestinian singer and a gay man and he has had many problems with the israeli government for singing about colonialism, queerness etc. the entire israeli government is rotten to the core, the IDF is a genocide machine and yet its system is called "the only democracy in the middle east" while shutting down all voices of dissent
you were making a joke but i somehow took it too seriously 😭 i thought you were talking about the country (now türkiye) and i thought ireland was actually rooting for us (turkey stopped participating in eurovision many years ago) bc ottomans sent help to ireland during the famine, i was filled with love for a second there
@@ninaveina I still regularly listen to "Love me Back" and "Every way that I can" might be my favorite winner ever. I am so looking forward to have you back one day!
I shouldn't be suprised anymore but it keeps feeling like a hit in the face when I find out about another thing in my life that was manipulating me the whole time. I stopped watching Eurovision a few years ago for personal reasons. But I never stopped caring and seeing this video gave me a little bit of nostalgia. I'm thankful that people like you two keep educating me. Can't wait to see which lessons are next in line.
So true. This is why I never let myself be too passionate about any products bcs I just assume every good successful products have a hidden problematic secret---which is mostly true anyway XD
I genuinely start to believe that they suck at originality. They can produce popular commercial music, but something novel is too alien for them. Why send Blood and Glitter, when they have Rammstein? Also UK, why send no names with terrible popsy songs? At least it's not dancing middle finger, but still pretty poor.
@@MJ-uk6lu the thing is that in these big 5 countries, Eurovision is usually seen as less aspiring and serious than in other countries. and they've been in it for so long and get through the final everytime, so sending good artists every year would have damming hostinh costs. but yeah, i think the main point is that it's really not seen as quite as aspirable, and also they're already famous, so Rammstein for example would just decline
We've done it because: 1- We don't really benefit from getting even more tourism. Spain is THE tourism country 2- Being able to participate means risking having to host an expensive and unnecessary tourism campaign. So we send El Chiquilicuatre on his marry way to boycott ourselves
I mean.. the one time u send a killer song with an actual chaance to win, ukraine won for political reasons with an objecitvly worse song. So yea...i wouldn't care that much. find a cripled LGBT with a sad backstory to fart at a microphone and you'll probably win.
@@raleo7466 I never really thought about it that way, to be honest. Those are good points. Its just a shame that with so many good artists willing to put a good show and show their talents, we send the most boring, average and even ridiculous candidates.
I just wanna add that Marija Šerifović winning was a huge win for gay rights in Serbia. Gay parades went from bloodbaths to a slew of mostly verbal conflicts each year. I don't think I can explain enough how much her win humanized gay men and women in the eyes of a random citizen The fact that she's not a conventionally attractive chubby woman also helped, because it was a display of pure talent taking the victory.
I'm a queer person from Russia and if I got a dollar every time a westerner says I'm too "regressive" for Europe I would.... Well, I would no longer live in Russia, that's for sure, but the way the understanding that a government's position doesn't necessarily reflect that of the common citizens doesn't seem to apply to "uncivilised" countries in the eyes of some progressive people from the west is... interesting. Anyway, great video, loved to hear your thoughts on Eurovision
It's the same argument used against refugees running away from Middle East smh. There's a kernel of truth - just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't hold regressive views. But what can be done about the issue? Should we just leave people to die because they don't match our perfect morals or maybe we should do focus on integration? One solution is simple but antihuman. Another solution is something I prefer
i like how they censored tattoo girls. it's just profitable to view Russia as a regressive country. i'm all hands up for equal marriage in our country, but never in my life had i heard something smart coming from a western g-rights activist.
@@shab_nak that i gotta hard disagree with. We can't just discard the whole body of western activists' experience just because there are some dumb/misinformed people among them, at very least for the reason that the western gay rights movement has achieved what we can as of now only dream of. They too have a long road ahead, but not as long as us.
@@esserefveermold maybe i was a little too harsh to generalize them all, yes, but i can't say here are 'some', especially nowadays. and about their achievements... i think every adult human being has the right to live how they want if they don't harm others, but i never dreamed of hosting bunch of drag shows for kids or sending trans women, who are convicted r*pists, to women's prisons. and these things ARE happening, and i am not getting it from our crazy TV programs, bc i don't watch TV. i always wanted to emigrate, to be able to marry who i want, but for the past decade i've lost any sense of respect for these people. i know perfectly well there are some (yeah, some) really smart and worthy to listen, but you know how it is, stupidity is always the loudest.
Thanks for talking about the divide between Western and Eastern Europe Verity. The racism from west to east is such an insidious constant and it is barely, if ever acknowledged for what it is.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. It shouldn’t be as shocking as it is to see this spoken about in a youtube video… but it is because literally no one talks of it, ever. No one talks of how Eastern Europe used to be occupied (by Russia mostly) or controlled by other counties, people still believe we hold the same beliefs as the USSR and have so many different stereotypes in their heads. No one talks of how serfdom (basically slavery) existed and how hard it was for countries to gain independence etc… it’s quite frankly upsetting. People often speak of Europe as this colonising continent…but they don’t realise that’s not at all what about half the continent did. That’s the west. The east had mostly nothing to do with any of it and the people here suffered a lot. It shouldn’t be as overlooked as it is. (Sorry for the rant, but this has annoyed me for a while)
the racism you are talking about is xenophobia,racism is something different,also the people that have been facing the racism are romani people not eastern europeans
@@hurremhightower Racism is just a fancy word for xenophobia really, because people don't fucking care to actually discriminate along real genetical subgroups. The sámis for example are about effectively as more or less white as the rest of the nordic population, but they sure as hell faced the entire racist genocide shtick regardless, comparable to the genocide of Native North Americans. The only difference is that the modern shit talk goes from "it's in their genes to be [insert bad]" to "it's in their culture to be [insert bad]", but it's functionally about the same. The romas however face much more intense racism from basically everywhere in Europe, I'l agree with that.
Lets be real, if it werent for the war with Russia, Ukraine would have been bashed like he rest of Eastern European countries by the West, its just their hatred of Russia is stronger than their hatred of Ukraine right now. Or have we already forgotten how the east was viewed in media and news just a few years ago?
It goes even deeper than that. If you look at who got the #2 death slot across the final and semi-finals since 2013, it's overwhelmingly Eastern or Baltic countries. When Cyprus in 2007 wanted to do a slow motion effect during their performance, it was rejected by the organisers/EBU. Then, a few years later in 2012, Loreen had the same effect. Same happened with Romania in 2014, they wanted to have holograms on stage but that wasn’t allowed. Guess who had holograms next year…
As a Spanish lesbian dating a Bulgarian woman, the paradox and strange treatment of East vs West is a constant talking point at home. Loved your video, felt fair yet funny as always.
I am an Eastern LBTQ Ally, and honestly yeah I kind of do feel a bit of a double standard. This year with Luke Black who presents in a very feminine way (even though he never openly stated that he's queer I think) I saw some comments being like "Oh damn, Serbia is so homophobic." responding to some of the hate comments he was getting...So when people attacked Conchita then it's just homophobes being homophobes but when homophobes attack someone in an eastern country then an entire country is apparently homophobic?...Idk it just feels like you're always being "othered", and yes obviously homophobes do exist in eastern countries and we do have problems, but the idea that no queer people or queer allies exist is just...Ludacrious. Marija Serifovic is a very acclaimed and loved singer in our country, everybody respects her talent, we have a gay prime minister, and there are plenty of gay communities fighting for their rights, not to mention all the positive comments Luke Black received this year. Sadly yeah, there is homophobia and it sucks and should be stopped but being constantly painted with a homophobic brush isn't helpful and actually helps homophobes justify their horrible views as in "Oh well the west is "othering" us because we're still trying to preserve good christian family values, we are the last bastion of civility and tradition". This is obviously common with all homophobes universally who hate progress of human rights, but with eastern homophobes it adds an extra layer of nationalism which is why it's much more difficult to escape.
The sad thing about queer movements in Eastern countries is that they tend to lean against national interests, largely due to the layer of nationalism trying to oppose "western values" you mentioned. Because of this western styled pride movements do not have a traction in the public perception because often than not, the loudest queer political advocates are the ones that are always against every national interest of the nation, even those that are not actually against queers or have anything to do with pride movement. And if you want to have a conversation with them, they shut down the discussion fairly quickly and call you all manors of isms, ists, or phobe. Its like they actively do not want any allies, which is pretty bad cause they are a lot of queer people that have nuanced opinions that would be a great bridge between communities, but are never given a spotlight as the annoying slacktivist ones. Queers have to lean all in pro-Western (not even necessarily liberal, just pro-western in every aspect of politics) or they are shunned from queer community, which alienates a lot of queers even more in a society that already views them as an negative aggregate. The polarized political landscape has made it impossible to improve queer rights, and current methods of pride activism do not work in Eastern European countries. They need to be adjusted to the social and cultural environment they are in, and they start changing peoples perceptions.
As a Russian it's so sad to see the Russian 2019 contestant, Polina Gagarina, interviewed by the queer icon, Conchita Wurst, given that today Polina Gararina is a Z person, supporting the war with Ukraine. So I wouldn't be sorry for Russia not being allowed to Eurovision now, since the war is still going on.
Observing Polish entries since. pretty much forever but especially the famous milkmaid performance is so interesting. My country is really bent on "not conforming" to gay way of Eurovision and especially after christian fundamentalists took power they seem bent on sending the most unstraight, generic songs to the contest (our entries are pretty much picked by government to be honest). I actually really want a day to come when Poland wins because it will mean they broke their fear of queerness. After Michał Szpak who got ridiculed in country for his GNC look took 3rd place in audience vote it became quite obvious that for Poland to win it needs to go gay and i hope this day will come, but it's an incredibly unlikely scenario. Not to mention my countrymen's reaction that would occur if anyone gay competed again.
i mean... a country should win cus they send good songs. If all it takes for the win is a gay singer then people are right to mock eurovision. It has clearly became something else... i know a lot of people who refuse to watch due to it being purely political and not a song contest. What would happen if all countries sent LGBT people to perform? Who would win then? xD
Blanka only competed in Eurovision all because of her being good friends with the Eurovision eliminations judge's (Edyta Górniak, who was 2nd place in 1994) son.
Im an MA student hoping to do a PHD about Eurovision and research it as a career, and this is my schtick basically. So refreshing to hear. How and when things are deemed political in Eurovision is just so clearly to me, a way for the powerful to exert their place over the less powerful, for western Europe to keep Eastern Europe in check and uphold our own political hegemonic values. The politics championed by the EBU and the Eurovision reference group are not only obviously political, but an active prioritisation, and any decisions on controversies must be discussed as such.
It's kind of funny to me that people think eastern eu shouldn't support gay performances, while we are literally the people fighting for queer rights rn because we don't have them in many countries. It makes way more sense for us to send acts that have themes of lgbtq as a protest than any country that already has it normalised. And to be quite fair, homophobic people exist both in the west and in the east so because we are post-soviet/communist doesn't mean the values are the same. As most of the post-soviet countries wanted to erase most soviet ideologies. Overall i feel like western europe and tbh even northern america are way more performatively inclusive than eastern eu and they are trying to pry on our downfall while we are still trying to build up our countries. I have had so many discussions over me being from a post soviet country and that i probably think backwards and that everyone is racist and homophobic while in reality even though those things exist bc they exist everywhere, i feel like it's actually not as bad as in many progressive countries where it is such a big deal in most conversations.
As a Central European (although to some I'm Eastern...) THANK YOU SO MUCH for acknowledging the unspoken status quo. I live in UK for 7 years now and I often feel like a second class citizen just because I'm "Eastern". I felt that especially at university, when teachers would introduce "fun, integrating activities" and would ask us to say our favourite UK cinema chain, or guess lyrics of Disney songs in English, which I couldn't participate in for obvious reasons, and when I was pointing it out, I was met with uncomroftable silence... "The West" is very hypocritical and barely anyone sees it.
@@ApricusInaros well, I mentioned things that happened AT UNI, which should be accommodating as there are differences from all over the world there. So yes, I expect better of them
@@ApricusInaros typical condescending Brit. Instead of actually trying to have an ounce of empathy, you say stupid passive aggressive shit to invalidate any foreigner's feelings towards your perfect country. Oh to be white and privileged.
Such an interesting point about invasion, I’m Australian, and the first year I went to a Eurovision party was 2021 and everyone there made a big show about giving Israel zero points in our own little score board, but we were all still totally fine to give points to the UK, to France and even to Australia, which we of course knew first hand is still in the process of illegally occupying other peoples land I didn’t say anything at the time because I didn’t want to sound like I was trying to defend Israel, but it struck me as a particular kind of contradiction … like if I was to actually pull on that thread, the enjoyment of the whole night might unravel…
I’m writing about the ESC being a display of soft power and identity politics for a university project right now. This was really helpful, and you listed amazing literature that I did not find yet. Thanks a lot ❤
I still feel this conflict extremely where I live. I grew up in east Germany,after the wall was down but it’s still in the minds of the ppl. I’d say my childhood was influenced by Eastern Europe/Slavic culture (mostly fairytales and Food tho). Even if I grew up in a ,united’ Germany it does NOT feel this way. We’re often the but of the joke in politics. Very good Video and important topic!! :)
As a Norwegian I'm so proud of Alexander Rybak (2009 winner), even though he's both belarusian and Norwegian. At least he dared mention pride while in Russia o.O
Omg thank you so much for covering this!! As a russian bisexual woman I'd say that Eurovision was always a safe place that I can enjoy thinking that that's how it should be - free and tolerant, flashy and welcoming, ignoring the political side of that (cause, yk, I live in that _funny_ country). I remember that I liked Conchita's perfomance and got bullied by my music teacher and classmates for liking something like that (bruh).
@polinabernard7579 and did you not think it was disrespectful for the show to take place on top of a village which was destroyed after the native Palestinians were kicked out?? Or are only a certain type of people allowed to feel disrespected?
@@itshaleena759 historical and political issues should not be taken into account, especially not in ESC, which was created to unite. It only should be about music
@polinabernard7579 which I would agree with, except for the fact that exceptions have already been made. For example, the Russia ban, why is occupation good for one country and bad for another? Or even the pink washing mentioned in this video
As a huge ESC fan it's so interesting to me when people try to argue that certain songs should not be allowed because they're too political and it's an apolitical contest when in reality it has just never been that way lmao. And if we can't recognize that Eurovision has problematic aspects, then we're never going to be able to improve it. Azerbaijan and Israel should not be allowed to compete because they keep comitting acts of colonialism against their neighbors. But nobody at the EBU wants to recognize that, and probably won't until other countries actively start to protest their participation. Just like it took multiple countries threatening withdrawal for them to ban Russia.
Seriously, I don’t understand how Israel hasn’t also been expelled in the last few years :/ and I’m a Jew who supports a two state solution, but there’s basically nothing left in the Israeli government to defend even tho many will try lol
It’s really sad to see such a comment about Azerbaijan taking into account the fact that it was Armenia who occupied the sovereign territory of Azerbaijan for almost 3 decades and ethnically cleansed its territory making more than 600.000 people become refugee. Armenia still has territorial claims about every neighbouring country (except for their ally Iran)
In 2014 it was not just gay/not gay theme Russia has occupied Crimea just 2 months before Eurovision And voices from other countries were some form of support to this event (as well as allowing them to participate was kinda political step from orgs) Conchita's song was great, btw
I'm living in East Asia and I meet people from different backgrounds. Who both know and don't know history of other countries and politics. But it's always so interesting meeting people who are in Eastern Europe or West Asia and seeing how they have a well-covered infiriority complex that is created to them in their countries that ismore like trying to constantly behave or prove they are "more european" or more like "proper" and have a lot of bad things to say about their countries andcultures and especially consider non traditional cutlural things are better. And this made me feel more valid because I've experienced this in my own country but I thought it was our problem We were not good enough, advanced enough or modern enough, but when you go abroad, especially far from the West's influence, you get perspective. And what's described in this video is definitely something I've been realizing more and more. Great to see it spoken so well here.
I come away from every video of yours with sharper critical analysis skills and a better sense of power relations. While also having fun. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 thank you for what you do!
You know, when any of my American friends or online acquaintances find out about Eurovision it's hard to put the popularity of the show into perspective. It has about 10-15 times the television viewership of the Grammies and Oscars, and has only really been beat in viewership by sporting competitions like the Super Bowl, Olympics and FIFA World Cup, along with massive one-time events like the first moon landing. Quality or not, it's a massive phenomenon all of Europe pays attention to. You'd think Eurovision is deciding the fate of Europe instead of the EU Parliament.
Sure, but it’s not that serious. Many people watch it just because it’s something interesting and they don’t think much deeper about the politics of Eurovision
The Super Bowl wish they could have the same amount of viewers like the audience do at the Grand Final of the Eurovision Song Contest yearly with usual between 190 t& 200 million viewers compared to the stagnant number of around 111 million watching the super bowl in the last 15 years
I think we'd be better off if the EU was lead for a year by whichever country wins Eurovision
@@hannah42069 Not necessarily...
@@hannah42069 wtf no
Let's not forget that Russia was booed for having invaded Crimea just three months prior. In my memory, that was the big reason for the booing rather than the homophobic laws, though it could be both factors.
@@samuelgordino I think it's an excellent video nonetheless. The critique of the EBU's stance on "political statements" at Eurovision is important and well argued.
@@samuelgordino girl nothing in the world is "unbiased." not even wikipedia. nor did they say it was.
this!! i’m glad someone pointed it out! the invasion of crimea was and still is a big deal and, as someone who heard about it a lot ever since i was 11 when it just happened, it’s weird to see it get overlooked
as a lithuanian i was wondering why russians got booed while we weren't, even though there is a similar homophobic law in lithuania. thanks for a reminder of the actual reason
Yeah this was a big reason, but russia was always booed. If you really listen to the audience you will hear it
It was a huge thing in Germany when Conchita participated and even won. Everyone tried to seem so woke and not say a bad thing yet it was the only thing the media talked about. Never the song, never about Conchita as a drag artist, only the fact that there was a man dressing up as a woman with a beard. Maturing means realising that the eastern countries always voted for each other because they had better songs.
Exactly the same here in the Netherlands, which is weird as fuck because the Netherlands is also considered a very pro LGBT country.
I've avoided media, because I never really understood the topics there. All I could hear in Conchita's song was something I'd set up to be a James Bond-intro or something similar, because of the overall feel and presentation. I DID like the fact that it made people face the existence of drag at least a little though, although it was nothing new, but still heavily glared upon with often negative opinions and such (one example is Olivia Jones who to this day must get a lot of hate for just being known for doing drag). It made people think, forced them to find something positive, in a way, because voicing a negative opinion on Conchita's entry easily led to being viewed as homo-/trans-/enby-phobic. And people didn't want to seem like that as long as they weren't surrounded by phobics or at least didn't risk to have to defend their honour.
@@sophiesantosEnot gonna lie, the second you mentioned Bond intros Something clicked and my mind was utterly blown
For ages I had no idea Conchita was a drag queen I thought she was just a woman with a beard. It was only when I got a history of Eurovision book and it said that I was like "o ok"
oh yeah, belarus always voting for russia has for sure nothing to do with politics. u sir must have 73iq.
Thank you for pointing out the eastern bloc conspiricy bs. That was the most annoying thing in eurovision coverage in the past 20 years, at least in germany. Reality is that the eastern european entries saved this competition with regard to diversity and inclusiveness and made it the fun that it is now.
@@ASAMB12 this makes me remember the jab that the host made back in 2017 was it? In their song about how to make a winning eurovision song. Idk it's been a while.
But I remembered a part of the song coming a long the lines of "voting for your neighbors is a disgrace but when Sweden does this to Norway it's clearly just good taste".
GERMANY just copes that most of their performances just sucks o. are so outta touch.
yea, it's either "We must stop the Bloc Voting!" or "those darn *migrants* are the reason countries outside Eastern Europe would ever vote for them." It happens every time they even do slightly well, let alone win. I've seen people who would likely consider themselves progressive grumble about *the migrants* even when a country from the East doesn't get knocked out in the semis (and its always some song that's a total banger too :P)
Good thing Northern Europe doesn't buy into the western Europe shit. They also send serious artists and I know few regions that take Eurovision as seriously as the north.
arent you feeling stupid when you use "diversity and inclusiveness" as positive attributes after watching and reflecting the video?
As an eastern european, thank you SO much for making this video. Literally, no one brings up these issues and it's nice to finally hear someone acknowledging them.
Yeah same. Honestly it shouldn’t be a subject that shocks me when it’s brought up in a video… yet it is because literally no one talks about it, ever.
poor marija šerifović 💔
I came here to say this! I seriously got into Eurovision just this year and when looking at the map of countries who won, the giant hole that is central-eastern Europe is staggering. Thank the Eurovision gods for Ukraine winning consistently at the very least.
@@langegogo Poor? Lol she chose to represent a fascist country. She shouldn't have gotten anything. Trash song also.
Video seems quite biased to me. As an Eastern European who knows what dictatorship and colonialism is.
Fantastic video!
Fun fact: the first woman who wore trousers on stage in Eurovision was Åse Kleveland from Norway. She is regarded a national treasure here, and was our minister of culture in the 90’s for the Labour Party. She is pretty iconic, she hangs out in an old flight tower outside Oslo and drives around in the same tiny car that she bought 54 years ago. I aspire to be her.
She sounds so cool omg
Ahh. thanks for sharing this. ❤ She truly sounds like a cool person
I find it very ironic the norway/swedish labour parties are deserving of the name - not the UK labour party though.
Women wore trousers in Russia before anyone did in Europe... part of many national ethnic group historical attire.
Also Russia leads to this day in Women in Management positions, far above EU average, and even above the Nordic states.
@@cristitanase6130that was not the point
As a swedish person I have to say, thank you for pointing out Swedens bullshitery
As a finn I also enjoyed it. I kinda hate seeing even swedes buy into this and also thinking that finland is backwards and homophobic (with the vibe that sweden is more superior). I've just recently realized how plenty swedes seem to some extent connect (either consciously or not) finland closer to being more russian and therefore also backwards. It's also perhaps to some extent also because swedes might want to distance themselves from the history between finland and sweden (I guess in a way believing that finland is more like russia and doesn't have similiarities with sweden makes it feel like nothing really happened). Just as an example, I found it hilarious when a watched a swede react to a finnish artist, who is gay, and him going "I really wasn't expecting seeing this from finland, I had the image that they're homophobic" (and for the record he doesn't say he is gay, but he picked up on him being effeminate and therefore gay, which I found kinda funny)
Of course I see similiar thing happening in finland with wanting to play the whole "we're modern and support gay rights, but these immigrants don't", so please don't misunderstand me. It's just that I've gotten annoyed with SOME swedes acting like they're above us with things like this (and other ways), still holding on to the outdated ideas of us while distancing themselves from any wrong doing. Sorry for the rant 😅
@@ellem8990 i agree im also finnish and the stereotypes i see online just because we border with russia is insane
@@ellem8990 Dw about it. I like hearing people's thoughts about things. I'm half finnish and honestly didn't know a lot of swedes view finns like that. I've had a generally pretty positive view of Finland and thought it seemed more progressive there than here in Sweden, in some regards. Though I recently heard that the right wing is gaining more political power in Finland too, which is unfortunate
@@aerlandsson2792 yes, right wing mostly won in the recent elections... I think they want to follow the American trend right now to strip away the lgbt rights that have been gained in the recent years. Let's hope they don't have the guts to do so. But one good news is that trans law evolved some just in time ahead of the elections! A new legislation just passed, so now one can change their legal gender without forced sterilization or doctors' approval.
@@ellem8990 I actually think Finland seems like a very progressive country with lots of unique cool approaches to education, economic equality etc. which other countries should totally utilize.
Basically, every new fact I learn about Finland makes me like it more. It seems like an even more progressive nation than the rest of Scandinavia (haven't been there yet, but I've lived in Sweden and Norway)
as a swede, thank you for clarifying how much of sweden's progressive utopian image is just that: an image. if it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't true and that applies to practically everything sweden is glamorised for
I wonder how much of it is effectively a left over from the "Swedish sin" that originated from the fifties
From the very basic gist of what I know, basically to foreign politicans it was too much that Sweden allowed for naked boobs to be shown on the big screen in some random film, so they basically assumed Sweden as a country was sexually immoral, and the entire package that it detailed at the time. I'm not sure how much the progressive sixties hit Sweden and my exact knowledge of Swedish queer activism is muddy, but to me it stands to reason that it was deemed more politically sound to then instead turn this infamousnes into fame.
I could be dead wrong though.
@Kitty _gurl Absolutely, and my point was not to minimise the incredible privilege of being born in a country such as Sweden. But as a Swede who has moved abroad I've had countless conversations where people have been so excited to hear that I'm from Sweden because it is such a supposed utopia. Sweden has a passive problem with self-aggrandisation to the degree where we ignore systematic problems as if they don't exist (especially racism). It is not a coincidence that a right-winged nationalist party with nazi roots have gained massive popularity in the country over the past few years. Marketing ourselves as the perfect, unproblematic country has done us far more harm than good.
Sweden is progressive in many ways, but incredibly behind in others. A great example is the ways in which the Swedes have historically treated the Sami population (the indigenous population of the northernmost part of the Nordics). This is an incredibly beak history that was never once approached in history class. Another example is the fact that Sweden was a leading country in terms of race biology (a pseudoscientific ideology that the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust). We have massive integration problems due to endless bureaucratic bs that keep immigrants (including refugees, and particularly non-western immigrants) out of jobs -- which has allowed the right-winged nationalist to spur this into a xenophobic narrative ("Immigrants are bad and don't want to work" etc) when in reality there is a systemic problem within the Swedish immigration system.
Sorry for the rant, but yeah my point is that the glamorisation of Sweden is inherently unproductive and has lead to the ridiculous political climate that we see there today.
@@nathania9710 yeah swedification is a thing that some swedes don’t like to acknowledge it’s existance because they think it doesn’t exist and that sweden could never be like russia.
@@nathania9710
The political climate is how it is because of a neo liberal agenda which pushes rootlessness to gain more ignorant woke folks.
@@nathania9710 Hey now, Sami history is part of the curriculum in Swedish classrooms. We don't sugarcoat that history nor do we pretend it isn't there. I think every Swedish person has at least once seen the film "Sameblod" in class even before High School, and when we get INTO high school we literally had obligatory classes discussing racism. The world might have a glamorised image about out country but that's just not what we're taught in school
Conchita's victory contributed very much to the way I see LGBTQ people until today. I'm from Greece, a pretty homophobic country and I was around 14/15 when she won. I fell in love with her persona and her song and it helped me tremendously to be tolerant and respectful to everyone regardless of sexuality. I'm gonna go as far as to say my opinions and views on this community were shaped by Conchita.
Political or not, it can help people, especially young people to be more open minded.
That's goddamn beautiful of you to say man.
@Amira Halts maul bro nobody cares
@Amira Kannst nicht mal ordentlich Englisch
stop misgendering conchita who is a dude
@@TheDopoqob Not in drag. Conchita is a woman, Thomas Neuwirth is a man. Easy as that. It's like if a guy played Juliet from Romeo and Juliet back in the day, Juliet was still a woman, the actor still a man. Easy as that.
It is also important to note how this idea of "lgbt acceptance is a value of the good and progressive west" is used in the opposite way, by a lot of individuals who live outside of those western countries, in order to portray progress, lgbt acceptance, or even the existence of lgbt people as something foreign, "eastern" or "American" that doesn't belong in "our" country and that "others" are trying to impose on "us".
Again, forgetting the fact that lots of people from non western countries are lgbt or allies, this fight is fought from the inside much more than it is from the outside - and that lgbt progress in western countries isn't something universally supported and didn't happen on its own and without extreme pushback in the first place. The rights we have now were usually not granted out of the goodness of our politicians' hearts.
The most interesting part of this is that many places were more tolerant of queerness prior to European colonization. The Hijra people of south asia were originally venerated and held quite a lot of spiritual and social power, but after Britain colonized us they were criminalized for not conforming to the western gender binary. Now Hijra people remain criminalized and, like many trans and intersex people in the west, mainly rely on sex work to survive, which is often very dangerous.
This is far from the only example. Homophobia and transphobia in the Global South are often both a result of and a response to European colonization. This is also the case with the anti-gay bill that was proposed in Uganda a couple months ago. I remember seeing a video essay about how that bill is the direct result of western imperialism and its propaganda but can't seem to find it anymore. I did find a video by AdrianXpression about it, which is called Uganda’s Anti-LGBT Law is 'Un-African'. Recommend watching it to get some idea of the situation.
@@zkkitty2436 this.
im hindu, and i remember i was reading a scripture (Bhagavat purana) and remember reading about a king who switched genders, and alternated between male and female every month. and i remember thinking that i was normal for feeling like that. when i tried to explain, my mom just said that everyone wishes they were a guy sometimes. and i grew up a little and understood that i was lucky i wasnt kicked out of the house.
@@zkkitty2436 this is a great point. I'd also add the rise of Christianity (and perhaps other major abrahamic religions, but i don't know much about them) as something that changed cultures that were previously more open. And that is relevant because Christianity itself, like most major religions, rose to the power and influence it has today in, at times, very questionable or outright violent ways.
I come from Greece, and so many Greek people go above and beyond to deny that homosexual relationships between our ancients were a thing, even going as far as to suggest that any such claims (from academics!) are "western propaganda", or shit like that. Meanwhile, they justify their homophobia on the basis of the christian orthodox religion, which they see as an integral part of modern Greek culture. That Christian faith didn't take hold on our country on its own, however. While current greek lands were a part of the Byzantine empire, emperor Theodosius 1 "the Great" essentially outlawed paganism, including the ancient greek religions, and a lot of ancient temples were either destroyed or converted to Christian churches. Believers in ancient Hellenistic traditions were literally prosecuted the same way Christians had been, some centuries earlier.
That argument is falling apart after Mexico became LGBT friendly and soon, India will join too. But hey the evangelists have Uganda and most of the Arabic world, I guess they can have that.
@@APersonAlive Maybe your ma was gender fluid and didn know
As an Italian I’ve never heard of Homonationalism, but it’s something we’ve been doing for a while now. Basically pretending to be a supportive country just because that’s what other countries like to hear, even though in my day to day life I hear the f slur at least once a day and we still can’t get stuff like hate crime protection and a day against homophobia. Hearing from people online it almost seems like eastern countries are actually more supportive compared italy and some other western ones, despite of whatever image you may try to push. Maybe one day we’ll get equality, maybe we won’t, but I’ll try to direct the world towards the first option
Yeah, I never really saw Italy as pro lgbt but my boyfriend found it really surprising that a country like italy didnt have same sex marriage, but slovenia did
non credo siamo noi stessi a farlo, di sicuro non attivamente, i nostri politici sono troppo omofobi per spingere questa immagine, ma piu stranieri che fanno interpretazioni dovute a differenze culturali. ho visto una miriade di commenti in inglese amare la nostra nazionale perché evidentemente vedere uomini che si abbracciano e baciano la guancia non è normale dappertutto.
credo l'unica occasione in cui potrebbe essere volontario è con Sanremo, che negli ultimi anni sta finalmente puntando sui giovani, ma anche quello credo sia piu dovuto agli artisti che sono piu progressisti e alla ricerca di prendere l'attenzione delle nuove generazioni che uno sforzo di apparire piu belli all'estero, prima che i maneskin vincessero nessuno neanche prendeva in considerazione l'eurovision e la possibile fama internazionale.
It's also a matter of generations. We are only now hitting generational shift in politics around the Europe. And even then Millennials and Gen X are still pretty H-phobic. And LGBT is still pretty easy topic to pick when you need to cover up other shiet. I never considered Italy as super supportive of gay rights. Mostly a middle of the pack - far from super progressive north-west and some historically open slavic countries. I mean we do have to remember that it was part of the wrong side during Second War and the Catholic Church ruled almost half of the peninsula barely 200 years ago. The propaganda will run deep especially in less educated and older groups of people. We definitely need another 100 or 200 years for most of the Europe to move on.
Thank you for writing this, I'm a queer Italian too and Italy is not a country where LGBTQ+ people could live fully feeling protected, accepted and not discriminated. Italy is FAR AWAY from equality and it's a western country.
Grazie di aver commentato, cercavo le parole giuste per poter esprimere in inglese tutto ciò che hai scritto tu. ❤🏳️🌈
@@frogger1674 why are people surprised by Slovenia being progressive and great, what's so hard to believe?
Im Eastern European and it rlly annoys me how there is this narrative that all Eastern Europeans are homophobic. My Parents, espacially my father, demonstrates since his youth against the government. My whole family is against it, even tho they grew up in a very conservative environment
some younger people may be more progressive but I feel like most older people aren't very queer friendly. I'm from Poland and it's so shitty here 😂
@@dickottel True! Lgbtq-supporting family is very rare, but if they do support lgbtq, they do it firecely! I'm speaking from experience :)
@@dickottel I'm from Poland and in my experience most of the young people are homophobic as well but maybe that's just regional cause I live in the eastern part of Poland where prison subculture is something that young men like to follow so it's more of an issue with toxic masculinity and nationalism more than religion or being old.
The entirety of the west has main character syndrome. Someone has to be the big bad boogyman, and if you're not on their same page right away, you're it. I say this as a member of the worst offender: I'm an American. Americans think the whole world should be, and is, America. Americans even think the internet is America. It's embarrassing.
@@Tobi-oi3ufas a fellow polish person I think it's too difficult to say whether we as a nation are homophobic or not. We're too polarised now. As more teens come out as queer, the more elders and men dig themselves into homophobic hole as a way to defend their ego and some "traditional values". I grew up in 00s and it was normal to call each other pedał or cwel. Prison nomenclature and lifestyle was very strong "thanks to" rappers and it stays strong in the same people. Homophobia in nowadays youth is UA-camrs quirky way/freak fight "tame" aggressive way (they will use microagression mostly until they find a way to go fully hostile, but it's just my view). Poland didn't had sexual revolution nor bisexual chick that used gender nonconformity as a mean of expression. So now people sometimes have no idea whether they really are queer (which is fine, everyone is trying to find themselves at some point in their lives) or performatively queer as a means to express the disagreement to the system as it can me mixed up because we're too much influenced by USA and didn't create our own stance on queer rights, sexual life etc.
As a Brit, I was deeply ashamed by Terry Wogan's commentary. He dismissed great entries before they'd even started performing, he talked over the intros of songs, he said nasty things about the contestants' looks, and he came up with bizarre conspiracies about the UK's failures. It was really difficult getting my friends to care about Eurovision because they would just parrot Wogan's views. Nowadays I watch Eurovision on UA-cam, and without the commentary it feels like a breath of fresh air.
Graham Norton is soooo much better
There is still this meaness to the way the UK approaches Eurovision that is so cleary a hold over from this. And of course the conspiracy of "the UK doesn't do well because Europe doesn't like us" stands strong. When it is so obvious if you actually enjoy Eurovision and participate in its fandom that its just because the UK acts are often god awful.
It suprises me. The Dutch commentators are always super enthousiastic, open-minded and see the best in every preformance. (except when it comes to singing, then they are judgy, but that's it)
The man with the black hair presenting for the Netherlands in 2021, Jan Smit, is normally our commentator. He does it amazingly!
"Block voting" has always been exaggerated. You won't win or come bottom because of the actions of a couple of countries. One thing overlooked in this video is that it can occur due to people moving to neighbouring countries for work. An alien concept to many people in the UK (as other than Northern Ireland we're surrounded by sea), but if you have a land border you can move for work and drive back to see friends/relatives at the weekend. This creates strong ties between countries and naturally would affect voting.
I do think that the UK has suffered in the contest due to our unpopularity in Europe. We've had some years where we have ended further down the table than is possibly fair... But we weren't going to win (possibly just get a few more points) because we have sent some mediocre songs (and 2nd rate singers).
This year I think we will likely do badly as our song is just 'alright', it's not a stadium filling song that will be remembered. Oh well... There's always next year...
It was really disappointing yeah. I quite enjoyed footage of many of wogans wise cracks, but this really makes me look back and think what a wanker.
Thank you for highlinging a history of how "nutrality" is a way to hold existing power and reactionalry politicst. Upsetting to see queer people being used as bludgens in raciest ways .
Upsetting, yes. Surprising, no.
Never forget that "apolitical" is just a code word for "pro establishment".
Is it nutrality with emphasis on the nut, or neutrality?
@@racinly1374Remember that this comment section is going to be full of non English speaking and English as a second language speakers
But good joke!
@@DrZaius3141 Or people who find any political movement to be toxic
This is just .... so well done. Standing ovation. The anti-eastern Europe bias, the double standards of "appropriate" political messaging, the fact homophobia is STILL prevalent in all countries, the homo-nationalism and the fact that aspirational ideals of equality and protection of minorities can be perverted and used to silence, provoke and single out other "undesirables".
verilybitchie doing a Eurovision essay video ?! DINNER'S SERVED!! 😍😍
As a person living in post-communist country who happens to enjoy ESC, I was totally unaware that the west vs east Europe conflict was even a thing.
Of, Yugoslavia's early years were rough
anti-communism is still going strong unfortunately
As a swede, I was unaware too. The only thing I did know about was the block voting though
I am from Ukraine, also never heard about it hah
are you not living in europe then?
The talk about queer people surrounding progressivism, is mostly about proclaiming how "tolerant" they are of us. You don't tolerate things you like, you tolerate things you hate.
I tolerate this view of yours.
True
@@NoraNoita Doesnt make it less true
@@gamerdrache6076 queerphobe😬
@@wahoodotwav yes i don't like them but femboys ain't that bad
I'm from Eastern Europe and I've never heard about the Intervision. I told my mum about it (we're both fans of ESC), and while she forgot about it through the years, now she has enjoyed a great nostalgia trip replaying the classic jingle, finding the logo etc. Such a shame that the initiative was forgotten. Thanks for bringing it up!
Really? Although, I have only heard about it a few times from my mother I think, and our history books in school may have mentioned it due to my country's position in-between the east and the west.
This video essay is amazing. the lead is really buried by the title and thumbnail of the video - I wasn't expecting such an in depth and insightful anaylsis of race, class, xenophobia, activism, politics and homonationalism from this jumping off point.
and capitalism! of course. lol
@@lsdinua How? Could you elaborate on that?
Discovering this video after the 2024 edition really puts a lot of things into perspective lol
As a Hungarian queer person, I have a feeling that the homonationalism of some western European countries is due to this weird belief that there are no queer people in eastern Europe, only queerphobes. I think it's assumed in western countries that all of us left for another, less homophobic country. The thing is though, not everyone has a choice and not everyone wants to leave, some queer people want their countries to change for the better, so they stay, hoping for the best or trying to change the status quo themselves.
Absolutely! I'm a queer Romanian and I'd love to see my country change for the better when it comes to the standards of living and LGBT rights but at the same time I can't blame all the people like me who leave because they want to be in a safer place with more rights. Hope things are going to be good for Hungary and for the rest of us here in the east.
Remember that it was in the central Europe where first openly trans member of Parliament was chosen (Anna Grodzka in Poland) and that it was in our part of Europe that queer people could live freely, where at the same time in UK, Germany and other western countries gay people were criminalised.
As a lesbian hungarian i am really saddened by this but i could never move back home ….i feel guilty about it… i just feel i cant change anything here
As another Hungarian queer person, I just want to second this.
Maybe it's just the old romanticism in me speaking, but we deserve a better country, to not be deemed a criminal in our own home.
The country might have gone to the dogs a long long time ago, but damn if I don't try to help prying it out from their fangs, whichever human way I can.
@@Nemamka I think most people know that you aren't Orban. Definitely other Central and Eastern countries would know it, as we have also struggled with bad politicians for way too long. Even if in Hungarian case support for Orban is still pretty significant, especially compared to for example Poland, where it for decades has been a ping-pong match between progressives and traditionalists. Heck I don't even think Orban himself believes in what he postulates. Especially after that one scandal with one of his bigger politicians getting exposed attending some "group gay parties". It's more of him playing the scapegoat game - it's easy to keep the power when people see something has been done. And LGBT is an easy target. Small group, historically opressed and accused of a lot. It's rhetoric that keeps the extremist voters in check. With economy usually keeping the middle groups, giving enough votes to win. Add to the equation that usually half of the people do not vote.
I want to thank you for your admirably proper pronunciation of Marija Šerifović's name. So many don't put the effort into getting our region's names right. I just wanted to know your effort is being appreciated.
the creator is slovenian, so that might be the reason for their admirably proper prounciation but yea, it's quite cool either way, since they do have a big international audience :)
@@pazhdiskova1030Woah, I didn't realise she lives in Slovenia.
Azerbaijani here. I was a volunteer at Eurovision in Baku and it was an interesting experience. Regarding Human Rights, it is no secret that Azerbaijan's record is the worst in the Eastern Partnership. There were attempts of queer baiting with lyrics of "gay or straight or in-between" and the styling of Tural and Turan this year. But Eurovision was a big deal especially the first year, another testament to at least formal independence post collapse of the USSR. The first act of Azerbaijan Day after Day was indeed performed by closeted gay performers, which caused some problems afterwards for the artists and it was the best performance of Azerbaijan throughout the years. But rather than boycotting access and progressive events (a lot of gays arrived in Baku for Eurovision, which was a positive) let's question the root of the problem and the fact that European countries economically support the current government as they consider it a reliable business partner. Eurovision was one of the events that was worth holding unlike European Games or the horrible Formula, which doesn't bring any values or culture. And on a side note, Yuliya Volkova of TATU is extremely homophobic and even if there is some docs about her being bi, she was probably doing that to attract male gaze. Lena Katina on the other hand has low key supported LGBT community in Russia and if you ask any Russian queer person they will prove this. So the kiss was not a real gay kiss. TATU is a band created on child exploitation and is very very problematic, in general.
I didn't know the other girl was bisexual because that clip she said in a tv interview in Ukraine about not forgiving a man kissing a man shocked me I find Tatu was created monetize on lesbian love and bring in a narrative that women are gay to please men
I'm a swede and honestly had no idea about this but now that I do I feel disgusted. Yikes. Other than that political party and their antics, of course.
It is almost as if organisers and other people who benefit from Eurovision in general had a vested interest in most people not realizing or finding out about this and put some of their efforts and resources to make it so.
Your country is literally invaded my muslims and africans lol You are going to desappear soon.
I never followed Eurovision closesly but oh boy I remember the Conchita year. I even looked up her music videos on UA-cam and was so happy to see a visibly queer person on TV being celebrated. Sadly I also remember how ridiculed she was by many people. How my classmates made fun of her... Still, it was an important moment and ultimately a good one.
Here in Russia homophobes (highly intertwined with nationalists) can't stop thinking about Conchita to this day. The allusion to a "bearded lady" as a sign of western degeneracy is not going anywhere any time soon.
Thankfully I don't remember people making fun of Conchita, both her and Verka are iconic, and I'm romanian
Conchita is what got me interested in Eurovision as a teenager. I didn't even know what she had going on, I just knew she was doing her own thing, standing out, and for that she was iconic.
@@bubu4951 It’s drag, look it up , you obviously have an internet connection…
@@limpchees hello fellow romanian! :)) Unfortunately, I do remember all the ridicule Conchita received. I was watching IUmor at the time and there was a whole act making fun of her in the finale.
"Yes, yes! Lesbians! Work that gendaH!" got me dying- 💀
❤😂
4:50
I think it's important to understand that when Ukrainian Eurovision fans (can't talk about other countries) proclaim the values of openess and tolerance, and support of queer rights, it's not only because we want to appear modern and accepted into the cool kids clique. We use Eurovision to advance these ideas in our society, as it's known as a very gay show. It's not just a branding tactic or a way to appeal to Western Europe. Though we do want not to be looked at as inferior, we also say these things to manifest them, to popularize the idea of queer rights. Melovin, a Ukrainian artist who is shown here speaking about Ukraine being modern and free, is an openly bisexual man. It's not just an act for him for pity points. He is that kind of Ukrainian who is open and modern and wants his country to be even more accepting, because it's personal for him.
I agree! It goes both ways. We both want to make a good impression and to change how things are at home.
I think that vision might be a bit colonial and self-centred. “You’re pretending to be progressive to make us like you”. No, we do that for ourselves. And yes, for talking to people who don’t care much about lgbt rights, it can be useful sometimes to appeal to “Europe”, but that’s a battle we, “the gays” are fighting first of all for our own future.
Yeah, that whole part in the video gave me a bad vibe too. I'm from a part of the world with a large history of colonialism (Latin America) so I understand your perspectives very well.
Oh thats a great input! It's not just politics abroad but also about politics at home. What a political apolitical mess Eurovision is
100% agree! Also it popularized gay shit in Ukraine, growing up everybody loved Verka Serduchka, but only recently I realized it’s drag! And she was in every New Years Eve tv show for my whole childhood. Her art&gender wasn’t question single time by Ukrainians, It just gives me hope
This is a very good video, but it fails to mention two important points:
1- Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, not to mention the invasion of Georgia in 2008, which pointedly did NOT result in the exclusion of Russia from the competition.
2- You can't talk about the birth of Eurovision without mentioning that it was explicitly created to mimick the success of Italy's most popular music festival, Sanremo.
Also I felt a lot of booing for the Russian sisters was about the invasion, at least that is how it was communicated back then in Germany.
Brfore saying who invided first please read the history and facts and dont say false things
@@longtail7770 its not about history though is it? thats like saying italy should take over all of the Mediterranean in your mind
@@naglisdapkus3166 and how is Italy connected with this? Its a different country with different history and it has not have argued theritories
@@longtail7770 its your own logic, read your comment because history is the reason of the invasion
This aged well in 2024 ...
Care to elaborate?
@@NeekoGood another Israel-Palestine conflict (g_no_ide)
and the public opinion on it is shifting
@@HOPEfullBoi01it's really crazy because it not only did prove one of their points that they mention in this video (the one you mention) but two (i mean that they go in favor of western country rather than eastern ones) like it's crazy to me also i think Switzerland won because of political reason not because the representitive was nonbinary but i don't feel like typing it 😮💨
The first time a non-binary person participated and the first time a non-binary person won in one year.
There's a lot of context being ignored in a few of these clips, maybe not intentionally but certainly irresponsibly. Like for example near the start, in 2014 when Russia was getting booed to oblivion, the gay laws *might* have been part of it, but so was the invasion of Crimea which was literally *two months* before the contest. Similarly the clip you show from 2015 when the hosts remind the audience to put music above politics -- this wasn't to do with anything gay in the performances, as you insinuate; it was because the Russian artist was getting booed every time she appeared on the screen, again because of geopolitics (and her song). You make a very good point about the hypocrisy and racist chauvinism of Western broadcasters but in the case of Russia there were definitely other things going on besides the gay laws.
Yeah. The other issue with the juries being reintroduced in the early 2010s was also because the performances were becoming more and more outlandish to be memorable. It wasn't necessarily queerphobic -- it was more that there was an arms race to see who could be the most strange to get people to remember them. The juries have to have rigged the most recent contest, but it doesn't mean they're some sort of nefarious conspiracy.
Also, as someone old enough to remember the fall of the Berlin Wall, I think the commentator here plays up the West bad, East good narrative too much. It's setting up divisions where we should really be tearing them down -- substituting one blunt narrative for the opposite doesn't make anything any better; it just alienates another half of the population (and I found the comments about Britain highly offensive as well).
We need a more nuanced narrative on both sides. That you feel the other side has a genuine case to answer doesn't mean you can replace bias with bias. To be a good content creator you have to really look into the bigger picture and analyse things more carefully, rather than just sensationalising them in the opposite direction.
Thanks for this context!
I wish this comment was further up. The tendency of leftubers to brush over the very violent geopolitical conflicts Russia was engaged in the past 20+ years is tiresome. The only thing they aknowledge is homophobia. Not the systemic racism, discrimination against indigenous people, neoimperial expansion (’soft’ or militarised), support of extremism in neighbouring countries...none of that.
The Crimea thing should have been mentioned. That's enormous. All of it should have been mentioned. I agree that parts of this did seem misleading because they neglected really important context, like the invasion of Crimea (began in Feb 2014), which was unquestionably an enormous influence on the voting that year (final in May 2014).
leftubers? the last thing they wanna do is defend russia and their government lol@@beafraid5467
Eurovision being apolitical is so funny cause there have been a lot of songs shitting on the EU, about actual wars or invasions, the alliance theories (the fact people take it that way alone) Russia being banned (not the only ones I think)
This is a really interesting video and despite being a Eurovision I actually never thought about much of this (or knew about it) so thank you for making this!
Edit: So in short, Eurovision can be political when that will work uniting + it's a tool for othering/selfing.
I’m kinda glad that a huge international show as Eurovision is embracing gay people. I’m not gay but I come from a homophobic country and if I was gay I’d want to be acknowledged too. Greetings from an Azerbaijani.
as a fellow Azerbaijani I second that!
As a Gay Turkish man I thank you from my deepest feelings,
Bu kadar anlayışlı olduğun için çok teşekkür ederim
@@x_Arone_xcan turks and azeris understand each other? Greetings from Norway and happy pride month.
@@LuKing2 yes we can :) and happy pridee
@@LuKing2they're both Turkic languages, so there's a degree of intelligibility
The rude comments towards one of my favorite winners really broke my heart. 😞 Molitva is a beautiful song, and Marija is lovely.
Yeah, I don't understand how BBC would allow that guy on air. Though I'm not British, but Finnish, and Marija won in Helsinki. She was such an icon already at the time.
@@elainelouve BBC gave JKR an award for her transphobic “essay” why are you surprised by anything they do…
No wonder Marija said she would never go back
@@kenna163 that’s not why she said it tho
you really think she cares about some idiot tv host in a different country says about her?
That a song whose lyrics I don't understand still made me cry really says something!
Might I just add as a Serb that your pronunciation of Marija Šerifović’s name was SO GOOD! I can see you actually tried to look it up and not just pronounce it “in english”. The name of the song means “prayer” and it’s very VERY romantic and some could also say sexual
And yeah she wasn’t out as gay back then but no one was surprised when she did, and it was so strange watching my homophobic grandmas and aunts still liking her after that and even excusing her “gender-non-conforming” way of dressing, the thing they are to this day not approving in me but at least it gives me hope. for context i’m a cis hetero woman tht just dresses what’s considered either masculine or just “like a clown” and normally I don’t enjoy pop music but that year that Marija was a contestant it got me into Eurovision
She lives Slovenia, that must help with her pronunciation
Watching this after Eurovision hits right on the mark, exactly what happened. As a Croat, my feelings towards the jury and Eurovision have soured forever. Western Europe will always look for a way to exploit us and make themselves look better.
Exactly, they have to find villains so they can be heroes who save the day…
@@milena2095 ŠČ!
Šta ćeš brate, mogu ti samo reći da ja kao Srpkinja obožavam vašu pesmu ❤️ Volimo vas puno, neka smo živi i zdravi zauvek ❤️
@@lo4568 Pa u sličnom smo kontekstu, samo pogledaj američke medije/serije - ako je negativac Slaven, ili je Rus ili je Srbin. A što se tiče Eurovizije, vi ste uspjeli već dvije godine napraviti pjesmu koja mi se prvo sviđa ironično pa onda neironično 😂. Svaka i vama čast pa sada idem zbog toga što "samo mi se spava", jer ipak "umetnica mora biti zdrava 👏" 💖🎶
@@allelon8284 TOO tako je, umetnica mora biti zdrava 😌 Laku noć ti želim 🥰
As someone who absolutely adores Eurovision, it always made me laugh when people complain it is "becoming political" when it has always been. And I love the way you defend Eastern Europa. Imo Eurovision is great because of Eastern Europe and their music (I myself am Dutch) and thank you for highlighting problems with Israel and Russia. Great video!
Isreal isn't even in Europe .
From everything I've seen, (which isn't much tbh, I only started being even mildly interested in Eurovision like 2 days ago) people, at least in comments, complain that it just "is too political", not that it "became too political". And that's fair to dislike imo
No, it most definitely has not always been political. Yes, there have been (very rare) political scandals from (usually no more than) one country in a given year every few years or so -- but these controversies were almost ALWAYS to do with the voting process until the 2010s.
See when 4 songs tied for 1st place in 1969 or when t.A.T.u. got 3rd place in 2003, or when Switzerland beat the UK by just one point in 1989. Or when Sandra Kim won in 1986 and caused an uproar because she was only 13 at the time. All "office politics" types scandals. All huge deals at the time. All starkly apolitical (I terms of actual politics).
Aside from that, the vast majority of Eurovision songs, videos, and performances have been starkly apolitical, with only very rare exceptions of political songs whose messages have almost always been about peace (see Ein bißchen Frieden in 1982 for the rare political song, whose political messaging was only promoting peace). I could make a list of all the obviously apolitical songs performed in Eurovision since it's conception in 1951 and tally them against the (infinitesimal amount of) political songs before the 2010s to prove my point, but we'd be here literally all day.
It has only become woke and expressly political for the majority of songs, performances, and most importantly in terms of the performers themselves in the past decade or so.
@@IDontWantThisStupidHandle ''let us bring Europe together with the voice of music'' is expressly political. Even the inclusion and exclusion of some countries is political because it implies ''europeanness''. The entire event is state funded for gods sake, how is that not a political question?
@@KasumiRINA good joke
I was in Austria when conchita won. The next day I talked to some locals about it and asked if they were excited to win. They said no because they were embarrassed to be represented by a drag queen. It wasn’t that progressive there
Where you in some backwater village? all of Vienna was celebrating
@@idnwiw Yes, because cities are well known to be paragons of virtue and not at all cesspits of degeneracy 🤡That's like saying Rome was celebrating something when the Empire was falling while the 99% of other side of the Empire was disgusted by it 🤡
I noticed all of this when I had a Eurovision re-watching phase 2 years ago. You perfectly summarised Eurovision's political history. I've always thought that the introduction of juries was high-key racist and was indicative of the way in which Western European looks down on Southeastern/Eastern Europe.
Juries were only reintroduced. They were present before the 2000s.
Why do people use the words racist. Xenophobic maybe, but easter europeans are white(and very racist towards anyone non white)
As a queer person from Western Europe living in an Eastern European country, I have to say that I LOVE your perspective.
Are you living in a decent place or a hateful place? I'm hoping you're doing alright! I'm from Romania btw
Why TF did u move from the west to east?? Just curious
@Erik Johansson. Did you not watch the video? Eastern Europe and Western Europe aren't as different as people say. There are plenty of better places on the east than western countries. For example Czechia, Estonia, Slovenia, Slovakia and almost all others. It's also cheaper.
@@yamataichul I'm in Macedonia, their acceptance of queer people could be better but I have not encountered any open hate, and legal protections are pretty good.
@@erikjohansson2703 Cost of living mostly, but I actually enjoy living in Macedonia a lot more than I thought I would. There is still a real sense of community and helping your neighbours here, in stark contrast to the west.
There was a series on the politics of Eurovision some years back, and they told a story about I think the Croatian artists in the nineties literally risking death to make the flight to make it to the contest. So it is definitely true that the countries that take it the most seriously aren't the permanent members of the Eurovision security council.
Which artists? Just curious, haven't heard of that.
@@huskybusky2845 think it's actually the Bosnian artists in 1993
@@imsohappy303 yes, they were the Bosnian artists. It was Fazla, they had to escape the country while literally being shot at to make it to the contest. Also one of my favorite Eurovision songs of all time.
@@sileylav Oh i heard that story. At that time the performing artists had to do so with a live orchestra at the ESC and brought their own conductor. I heard they lost theirs while fleeing the country. Do you know if the guy survived?
@@olgahein4384 Sinan Alimanović - he is still alive
This video should be mandatory viewing for any eurovision viewer in western Europe. I think what saddens me the most is how many of them don't even realize how xenophobic they're being towards eastern europe. They're not intentionally malicious, they've just spent their entire lives being told and treated as superior to the east.
tbh western countries really are superior. no one is perfect but Eastern Europe is so shitty about human rights and I live here and I'm angry and hopeless.
@@dickottel so that's a local matter that hopefully sooner rather than later will be a thing of the past. it's not a reason for the western countries to treat eastern countries like lesser than them. besides we all know the views of the members of the government often don't even align with the views of the regular people.
@@themeltedchocolatesadly they do align a lot. Have you watch the latest video on this channel, about the client wanting the sex worker to feel empowered no matter what? That’s what you’re doing with eastern european countries tbh. You can be not xenophobic without brushing aside horrific systemic problems in these countries as some small ’local’ problems. Then as someone honestly expresses their despair you pat the on the back.
Nah, i've seen some bigoted shyte from Eastern Europeans as well. There were songs on which the comments were things like;"only we can make this", "no westerner would dance to this", "they'd never vote for this", "they just don't appreciate good music" etc. etc. I had poured my votes into that song & was not the only westerner to do so. I've danced to that music, had visited parties with those types of bands & been to concerts. It's like the concept of touring was alien to those commenters...
And to be frank, yes i do consider myself absolutely superior to Serbs that go online & threaten people from Kosovo;"just wait until the UN is gone" with a gif of a rolling tank beneath it. Not to forget those that support the ruzzian attack on Ukraine.
Humans are humans everywhere, including the bigots & those that are (willfully) ignorant.
* every "quote" here is paraphrasing what was said
I am trans and my parents made a huge deal (negative) when Conchita won the contest, because it's absurd and weird and whatever. That's when they let me know what would happen if I came out. I am an adult now and I have never come out to them.
I mean, considering that children do watch it.. They probably don't need to see a man with a beard wearing a dress win a contest that should be based on singing rather than pushing the lgbtq agenda.. coming from a person part of lgbtq btw.
What exactly is wrong with a man with a beard wearing a dress? Please elaborate.
Oh god mate, I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’m gonna try and give you a hug over the internet if it’s okay. I know it’s not really like a proper hug but yk, if you ever want some comfort then 🫂
@@0neInTheChambie "coming from a person part of lgbtq btw"
uhhh, no? you're expelled
Remember there's no right or wrong in coming out, do it on your own time and when you feel safe. It's good you saw their reaction to Conchita before so you could make your mind about it, but also people change and act different when it comes to close relationships. Keep assessing their views in a safe way.
As a queer Armenian who grew up with Eurovision, thank you for speaking up about the pejorative attitudes of the West towards our countries, and how we would try to compensate real hard to pass as “true progressive Europeans” even if we never will be accepted as such by them. It has always been a rigged game and has always been political from the start and everyone is basically conscious of that. Nevertheless you cannot deny that its pretty iconic and there have been a ton of great memorable performances. Great video!! ❤
It doesn't often happen for Slovenia to be mentioned so many times in a youtube video! Hvala, Ada :D
Same with Lithuania. Sveikas!
Well they are Slovenian, so it was to be expected when it comes to Eurovision.
@@Bionickpunk who's slovenian? Op?
@@doiknowyou6284 The channel and video creator, they are Slovenian.
I was so surprised when I talked to western europeans and they either didn't care about Eurovision or forgot about it. Eastern europeans have been loving it for decades. I still remember some earlier 2000's entries even though I was a kid back then.
right?! turkiye stopped participating many years ago but almost everyone still listens to and knows the songs we sent years ago
That's odd though. Here in the Netherlands, maybe it's because we are like the most gay country on earth, it's a massive thing and everyone talks about it every year.
@@TikoVerhelst Well you did have a resent win, could that have something to do with it?
@@Eutha no, no, no, it was already before that that everyone talked about it.
There was a time when the Dutch public had completely lost interest in Eurovision. I read that somewhere. But I'm 17 now and as far as I live/can remember it was a big thing here (I also read somewhere once that the Dutch public became interested in it again somewhere in the 2000s which sounds reasonable, I was born 2005 ;) )
For us in Spain, we loved eurovision but we were so tired of always having shit entries and not be able to decide who our country was sending, so the ones who still followed started just celebrating every time people gave us 0 points, until Eurovision Spain decided (last year) to give us the vote again, and at least we had two years when we are allow to send someone we are proud about (Chanel and Blanca Paloma).
As a biiiiig Eurovision fan who is also a queer Russian living in Germany... yeah this one struck a chord. You've really captured some of my frustrations with Eurovision over the years, and also brought light to some things I didn't know of before or couldn't properly contextualize. Great video!
Well, my friend who really likes Eurovision said about that: Eurovision is how all of Europe wants to be seen by the rest of Europe without having to put in the work and effort that is needed to actually be like that.
I mean, if you just look at the whole show: It's a big party, everyone has fun, everyone gets celebrated, the crowd goes crazy to every act and all is about celebrating music and performing and the other artists and yourself. And then BAMMM! Reality in your face: the voting and the ranking and all the happy-go-lucky joy is over except for a chosen few.
I'm from Italy, and the Italian song contest which decides our Eurovision contest has just ended. It was tragic. A Singer said "stop genocide" and all hell broke lose. No names were spoken, but an israeli ambassador complained about "inappropriate messaging", and the following night a message stating clear and explicit solidarity with israel was read on live tv, and the singer's declaration was cut out from streaming platforms.
OMG That was eurovision national contest? I saw a clip on tik tok and didn't know where it came from....anyways I'm from Greece and I'm glad that at least i discovered Ghali
Gas pipelines...shhhhssssss ..money and power moves the world(since ever) the rest is pop-corn for the heard...err i mean the audience :)
Solidarity with Palestinians? Not allowed. Antisemitic. Ghamas-sympathizers. Disqualification.
Solidarity with Israel? No problem.
2014 was the first time I ever watched Eurovision, while in Ireland with my conservative, homophobic American military parents. We aggressively rooted for The Common Linnets (who I love to this day) and when Conchita Wurst won my dad declared it was the downfall of Europe, that Satan had a grip over the world, that it was proof everyone needed Jesus.
As a very closeted, very afraid baby bisexual, I never really forgot or knew what to process about that moment. But I literally never forgot it. To this day, when someone says LGBTQ or gay, my very first mental image is an Austrian drag queen surrounded in flame, singing Rise Like a Phoenix.
I also still listen to "Calm After the Storm", such a great song. Side note: I love how sincere and personal some of the comments are, and how people relate their own experiences to various ESC highlights. Your dad's reaction is totally understandable, lol. Conchita's win was cutting edge almost 10 years ago.
Your Father was right!
@@yeorgioshut the f up with your religious propaganda
@@yeorgios No he wasn't. Piss off
@@yeorgiosand you are wrong
In my experience, the word 'apolitical' often means agreeing with whatever politics is agreeable -- so long as it's status quo. Loved this!! thank you! It was super cool to learn about the history of a show that's an unshakable part of my childhood
Went back to this video after Nemo won the 2024 Eurovision. The ESC official account posted a picture of Nemo with the non-binary flag with a caption supporting them, yet kicked a Eurovision fan out for using that same flag and made Nemo smuggle their flag in since the EBU said he wouldn't be allowed to bring a flag representing his own identity on stage because it was apparently "too political" for the contest. Much to think about.
Oh so that's why Nemo didn't show their flag until the results were already being announced?
Nemo had it in the flag parade too@@witherschat
As a brit I prefer to watch Eurovision by myself, because I don't know anyone else who is prepared to unironically enjoy the music... Cheers Wogan
OMG I love the music. It's an experience
Come to my party in Sheffield. We take it very seriously whilst also having a party :D
Russian contestants were booed at not because of anti-LGBT laws but because of Russia starting the war in Eastern Ukraine and annexing Crimea.
you're overestimating the global pop culture influence of that event. it was definitely both
@@dadgbe4834 it was definitely not both, because you would have booing for all the other countries that have been pretty restrictive against LGBT over the years.
At least not on the same level. It was always just general hate against Russia (who did F half of the Europe with Germany, but opposite to Germany it never actually tried to fix things). Then they started the war in Georgia and then in Ukraine, which has been the main issue since annexation of Crimea.
LGBT or even just woman rights are also big issues, but not for the average European who watches Eurovision. Especially as Russia already was pretty oppressive against those groups.
@@mjm3091 It was definitely both. The average ESC viewer watching at home is not the same as the average ESC fan who is booing *live in the arena.* There are always tons of rainbow flags in the audience and there's undeniably a disproportionately high amount of LGBT in the audience. Even in 2015 during Polina Gagarina's performance, people in the audience were holding up their rainbow flags as a silent protest against Russia, even though the Russian anti-gay propaganda law was already introduced 2 years prior to that, in 2013. It was a very severe thing that most LGBT people definitely did not forget, and still haven't forgotten in 2023.
It was *definitely* a mix of both: The anti-gay law and the Crimea invasion. Denying that is just delusional.
@@dadgbe4834 No!
Yes!
I won't lie, I was scared to watch this video due to the stigma surrounding eastern european countries and the constant bashing people from those countries receive. Suffice to say, I'm so glad I watched this! Thank YOU so much for pointing and laying out every point so well!
As a swede, the issue of using the heir of progressivism as a symbol of nationalism is a real issue. We always get to hear about how democratic, inclusive, and environmentally friendly we are, while ignoring real issues in the country. I’m glad to see you bring this up. Great video
Yup, Sweden looooves doing the talk but never does the walk. It's such bullshit -.- to hear them say shit but then never act on it. And when you critique them on it, they ignore you.
@Sara-Stina Bergstedt också svensk, och blivit fucked av systemet, speciellt polisen
@@TheRedAzuki
Sweden does a fair amount of walking, it's just that with how bogged down seemingly the rest of the world is, it's easy to paint Sweden as going super fast when in reality it's not even really jogging.
As an immigrant to Sweden (coming from Germany), I really noticed the nationalism that's built around their "outstanding progressivism". The amount of times people have told me that "Sweden is the most progressive country in the world" and how they're much more accepting than other countries (US, Eastern Europe) and then turn around to ostracise people over "not integrating into the culture" is insane, and they're genuinely blind to the discrimination that goes on here.
People don't yell at you in Sweden, they freeze you out socially. Which, as a trans person that faced a lot of discrimination in my home town growing up, is still an improvement - but let's not pretend this is a holy land where we have solved discrimination and differences. Swedes aren't better people, they're just more politically correct about it.
I will never be Swedish, never "one of us", but I can at least be myself a little easier here. It's something, I guess. But we have to stop pretending.
If you ever wonder how racist Swedish people are just ask them how they feel about Finnish people and woop there it is.
Du där. Du har några poäng. Att gnälla över att migranter inte integrerats in i samhället är inte så värst produktivt men det finns ett korn av sanning i det.
Anledningen till denna segregation är mest beslut från miljonprogrammet och des konsekvenser.
När de byggdes så flyttade fålk dit.
Efter type ett år så hade alla etniska svenskar flytta därifrån(När jag säger etniska svenskar så menar jag kulturella svenskar).
Så händer Yugoslav krigen, Arab våren, Syrien. Och boom du har biliga bostäder som är segregad från medel svensken.
look at how the swedes and many other nordic country's treat their indigenous people from the north. they can get away with anything
THIS!!
The Dutch are EXACTLY like this too, and it's the main reason why here in the relatively more conservative Belgium, people tend to find them insufferable. The constant superiority complex, if you don't think like them, you are a backwards barbarian.
32:15 - just a reminder that russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 with occupation of Crimea; the 2009 pink tank Eurovision in russia was held during the ongoing war in Georgia; and russia has been occupying a part of Moldova since the 90's.
Btw as a Slovenian, Samo Ljubezen is now one of the most iconic Slovenian songs. Like everyone knows the song
The phrase "next year in jerusalam" is said at the the end of the passover seder. It's a phrase with A LOT of history.
Also, it had been in Jerusalem twice before, 1979 and 1999.
@@eken1725 Also, her statement about Jerusalem was not quite true. While east Jerusalem is occupied territory, west Jerusalem isn't.
@@adrianblake8876 All of Palestine is occupied territory
@Adrian Blake all of jeeusalem is israel my friend. Slowly but surely
As a Russian queer bisexual - thank you. Just thank you. I really wasn't expected that deep and gentle analysis on Eastern Europe lgbt topic. Usually you hear much more... harsh things
Wishing you lots of strength. The Russian government is really good at making you feel like you're all alone, but you aren't.
🏳️🌈
I am Turkish and we took Eurovision super duper seriously and sent in people we truly thought were up there as singers. And we have 2 victories. I have almost always disliked UK entries, and ironically I love so many UK based artists. I mean, my favourite band is Depeche Mode!
I’m from Serbia and when Eurovision was here the last time, Turkey’s Mor ve ötesi was ENCHANTING I still listen to the song regularly
we stopped participating years ago but our people still keep going back to our past performances and even us teens know almost all of them which makes me shed a tear to be honest
I have to correct you. Turkey won once, not twice.
But I agree with you. Love Mor ve Ötesi, Athena and Manga.
Hopefully we will come back after the elections 🎉
We need Anatolia rock back...
The Eurovision is a prime example of *rainbow washing*. "To hell with human rights, look at how gay we are!"
my mom has a big problem with Eurovision for this and honestly so do I. as a queer person from Finland seeing how judges twist the narrative this year saying that because Finns are close to Russia geographically, we are homophobicc and transphobic against this years Swedish contestant, Loreen. Objectively Loreens song was bad and the way it has gone this year with Loreens overwhelming success, after she won it was said that Sweden was disappointed in Finns for not voting for Sweden. After they won!! I hate when queer people are used as a tactical move in competition. We are human, we win and lose, we make beautiful art and bad art. We are not a political ploy in rainbow washing. At least we shouldn't be. Loreens Euphoria was a hit, but Tattoo was a miss for the most part. Nothing against her but the way the event is manipulated to fake progressiveness. I have lost my point somewhere but I hate how Finland is made to seem homophobic. Are we the most progressive and revolutionary country in the world? No. But our norm isn't hate crimes and we look down on discrimination. We are leaning a bit too far into blind acceptance in the political world. Its a mess, but I can genuinely say that no one here dislikes Loreen for her identity in any aspect. We live in our world and like music that we like. Most of us don't care about politics. Im going to stop talking
@@jeil5082 Don't forget the actual cultural appropriation of Finnish things that is going on in Sweden right now as we speak. They sell Moomin merch in their tourist shops claiming it's actually Swedish. They sell Finnish war memorabilia claiming it's Swedish and it was actually Sweden that fought the Soviets in the second world war... and sauna, is actually bastu.
@@Carissa99Xo I feel like I have to add my point of view to this because I as a 19 year old Swede I have never thought that Moomin was Swedish and not Finish nor do I know anyone that thinks so. "They sell Finnish war memorabilia" I have no idea what memorabilia Finish or other we apparently. Finally the word bastu from what I've heard from my ethnically Finish teacher is that it comes from the word badhus and when Saunas were introduced to Sweden they bacame part of the badhus and turned into the word bastu. I feel like Sweden and Finland don't realy know too much about echouther even tho we're close neighbors. This seems to manifest to both feeling like the other one looks down on the other and in turn starts to dislike echouther. My general view of Finland is not bad and I belive they do a lot of things better than Swedan.
@@jeil5082 People thinking if you didn’t like Loreen you are homophobic are dumb. Loreen just didn’t have a great song. Even my countries song was better this year imho (because of you by gustaph).
@@jeil5082 I’m a queer person from Finland too! That claim is so insane to me for many reasons but one is the fact that Finnish people mostly televoted Norway and their representative Alessandra is a bisexual woman just like Loreen. Yes such horrible homophobic action, not giving points to a bisexual woman and then going and giving points…to a bisexual woman
Bro the same is happening to France. The commentators are always complaining that countries are voting "politically" and that they shouldn't vote for their neighbors but when Belgium or Switzerland are giving points to France they are all like "YES THANK YOU NEIGHBORS!" and saying things like "well done Belgium, vote for Belgium, vote for our neighbors!". The hypocrisy. I've stopped watching french TV a long time ago.
ofcourse the 30% french swiss would vote for france. The same way the 60% German swiss vote for Germany, or Austria. We share similar culture, the same language, the same looks, and for the younger population, we all watch the same UA-camrs/streamers. There will always be a gap between languages and ethnicities, French & German swiss will never be as close together as swiss & germans, austrians or french & swiss french.
I'm Israeli, so i was totally oblivious to the east vs west politics of eurovision, but i would say that when we sent Dana there was protest from rabbis and haredi memebers of the knesset. It was a very big thing, concidering that the first of the famous big Tel-Aviv pride parades only occurred a year later. Queer Israelis owe so much to Dana.
As an american who doesn't know much about Eurovision, this was a fascinating deepdive into the weird xenophobia and the pseudo political warefar that goes on
Fun fact: Verka Serduchka's(Andrey Danilko) song "dancing Lasha Tumbai" created controversy in Russia due to the chorus sounding like "Russia goodbye". Danilko insisted it was a Mongolian phrase and it was also theorized that the song was a reference to the Orange Revolution of 2004-2005, when Ukrainians protested against the pro-Russian president who rigged the elections. Since then, in 2022, Danilko officially changed the name of the song to "Russia goodbye", saying: "You wanted to hear it, you will hear it".
I'm a nonbinary butch lesbian American whose parents are ussr immigrants, I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, anything queer was a sin, and yet my mom loved Verka Serduchka, they were my first exposure to gnc queerness that I ever saw, and seeing it be celebrated meant so much to me at the time, and now with this video you've introduced me to that fabulous gender bendy Serbian performance by clearly a butch lesbian and that brought me so much joy. Even now with me distancing from my family and living my best enby butch lesbian life, I still rarely see butches celebrated and just anywhere on media even here in America so finding those two performances and watching them all the way through was so meaningful to me.
With how much is a sin according to Christianity and how much many popes and bishops didn't care about their own sins it's amazing how the religion lasted 2000 years.
Verka will perform this year! I’m excited ❤
I always though Verka Serdiuchka was a woman. We had them on every new years growing up, and loved to dance to their songs (we don't celebrate christmas) - so she's a staple of new year celebration and mood, like frank sinatra's let it snow in my head. Then in my teens I found out they're a drag queen. Welp that new year song just got even more funky.
@@arnaeri9290 I knew Verka was a guy from the very first day i saw him on russian tv in the late nineties. According to my dad he was part of a mixed teen singers group 'Pazany i Pazanki' in the late 80s with always changing members, and then in the early 90s he was a one hit wonder as a soloist (there was this trend singing about flowers, 'yellow tulips', 'rosy roses' etc and he had a major hit in that area), but was more popular at the KVN comedy show where the current ukrainian president was a big shot too (for those who are confused now: Selenskij was a tv comedian, and at one of his shows he made a joke about running for president. People liked it so much, that he actually DID apply for the job, still as a joke. People liked THAT so much, that he applied seriously than. And people like THAT so much, that he is where he is now - and the russian president still doesn't know where he is). And there he first introduced Verka among other personas of his. He was rather popular at this show, cause singing was a big thing there and he was a great singer. Apparently Verka was his most popular persona so one time he just went on and started a music career as this persona. And the rest is history.
Fun fact: Andriy Danilko was born in Ukraine, but like most (post) UDSSR artists he lived/and or worked from Russia aka Moscow, cause it was more efficient, especially for being on different shows. When his popularity was on the peak in the mid 2000s in Russia, there was a big discussion if he should go in for Russia (where he was actually living and working and celebrated like a king) or for Ukraine (still his nationality and home country). The decision was quickly made in the end, but for the most simple reason: televotes. One can not vote for your own country. And Russia has much MUCH more people who were willing and DID vote for him than Ukraine.
I'm confused, how can you be non binary and butch?
i’m american but my mom is french, and she’s told me about how frustrating it is that the western european nations discriminate against the eastern european ones. she also doesn’t like how many eurovision songs get performed in english bc it feels so homogenized. i somehow have still never seen eurovision despite being gay, somewhat european, and a theater major, but i’m glad i got to take a closer look at the politics thanks to this video
Let this be the year!
My Father was from Hungary and my Mother is of French Canadian heritage. Her first language was French. I have seen the disrespect Eastern European people get and it's disgusting. Our TV shows when I grew up in the 1970' s and 80's had only a few Eastern European characters. They were communist spies, prostitutes or gangsters. Perhaps that's why I never saw myself as a real American. I never fit here but I also would not have been accepted there ether.
Apart from being a lesbian, Maria Šerifović is of a Roma minority, who win in a year that was declared a year of Roma culture. Above all, the newly established democratic pro-western government in Serbia was at that time, unlike now, very supported by the European Union. I think it was a combination of these facts that led her to victory. She continued being successful in the region and among diaspora all around the world.
Ми смо побиједили 2007., а почетком 2008. албанци на Косову и Метохији проглашавају независност.
Занимљива је чињеница да нам је Финска 2007. дала 12 поена. Мислим да никада више то нису урадили.
As an Israeli who is increasingly tired of her own country's bullshit and a longtime Eurovision fan, thank you for covering all that and more.
Israel is a terrorist apartheid regime. Maybe it's time to relocate
May one day we have peace between our people and in our shared ancestral home
@@omarabdulkarim356 Oh, amen to that. ❤
Ancestral my ass, ashkenazi Jews come from Europe
I hope the current almost fascist government will be a one off and that Israel and Palestine can just melt together into a shared Abramic state. Like a true democracy ruled by a secular government. That regardless of religion every citizen will be treated fairly. But in our current world it seems like a distant fever dream.
Edit: typos and fixing of my drunk grammar.
Truth is Russia was so queer after Perestroika. When I was a kid then teenager (1991-2007) I would see so many queer artist, gay movies and talkshows about gay and trans issues on TV. It wasn’t safe being gay in Russia. But it wasn’t banned or demonised in media. We even had cute movie about w/m/m relationships that included racial minority.
It was getting better until Putin started his anti-gay campaign.
Now it’s like a prison here. And it’s sucks because younger generation don’t have access to info I had when I was kid. They won’t see positive representation on tv or in cinema.
Also our Eurovision broadcast is now super censored so I don’t watch it.
I believe many countries feel the same. Turkey and Poland wants to put anti-gay laws into action too. I assume Belarus will join too considering they had their own bigoted dictator.
Russia was so incredibly gay. Verka Serduchka was absolutely huge and nobody made a huge deal about it. The current Russia culture war about “family values” is top down and fabricated.
@@ekattri Exactly! Not to mention Verka is Ukrainian artist but she was so popular and loved here.
Putin caused so much damage by his actions. On so many levels.
Мне теперь интересно, что за фильм про отношения женщины и двух мужчин?
@@rattydust7210 «Я люблю тебя» (2004)
Those countries are right, lgbt propaganda should be banned
As a Russian, i thank you from my heart for being unbiased and seeing actual people in us (and in other eastern nations)
We love the Russian people, your government may be scary, but we see you and love all you have to offer. Our government is getting scarier by the day, but that doesn't change the fact that there are wonderful people here. Love from the USA! (Texas specifically)
@@madelinequinn5879 thank you! It's nice hearing such nice words from people all around the world.
It's so scary to see how quick people are able to start hating each other when someone tells them to.
i hate when people conflate a country's government with the people who live there.
@@vlad5042 partially that one can do this, because propaganda works and there are a lot of people in reality, who support all this, among young people as well, and many go to the front willingly. But that can almost never apply to the whole nation.
Went into comments to say that. It's nice to hear something good about your culture occasionally. Russian queer culture is awesome, I hope to see the day it is discussed and studied openly and safely.
(And without people killing and being killed in wars)
Being an Israeli queer, it's a painful watch. Our community is under attack from far right politicians and there's a raise in anti LGBT crimes, and at the same time we're being used as a prop in a show for the world to see and think we're so progressive.
For the first time in my life, being out and proud seems like a risk, even commenting online might feel risky soon.
It is also worth mentioning, that it's widely known today that Israel spies on LGBT folks in the Palestinian Territories. Former members of Unit 8200 of the intelligence corp came out a few years ago, telling the press that they were asked to spy on Palestinian civilians, to extort to expose them if they won't cooperate with the Israeli regime. I have no reason to believe it changed over the last several years.
סתמי תפה
@@gemlo stop spamming "based" EVERYWHERE, literal teenager.
I hope you are safe my friend 💜
yeah Bashar Mourad is a palestinian singer and a gay man and he has had many problems with the israeli government for singing about colonialism, queerness etc. the entire israeli government is rotten to the core, the IDF is a genocide machine and yet its system is called "the only democracy in the middle east" while shutting down all voices of dissent
I don't know if you'll see this, but please stay safe and be strong.
Excuse me, Dustin the Turkey IS one of Ireland's biggest celebrities and people campaigned to have him enter the competition for years 🦃
you were making a joke but i somehow took it too seriously 😭 i thought you were talking about the country (now türkiye) and i thought ireland was actually rooting for us (turkey stopped participating in eurovision many years ago) bc ottomans sent help to ireland during the famine, i was filled with love for a second there
@@ninaveina Ottoman pirates also kidnapped Irish (around Cork coast) for slavery many times.
I love Dustin but it was still a shit entry!
@@ninaveina I still regularly listen to "Love me Back" and "Every way that I can" might be my favorite winner ever. I am so looking forward to have you back one day!
@@Maidaseu history is wild man
I shouldn't be suprised anymore but it keeps feeling like a hit in the face when I find out about another thing in my life that was manipulating me the whole time. I stopped watching Eurovision a few years ago for personal reasons. But I never stopped caring and seeing this video gave me a little bit of nostalgia.
I'm thankful that people like you two keep educating me. Can't wait to see which lessons are next in line.
So true. This is why I never let myself be too passionate about any products bcs I just assume every good successful products have a hidden problematic secret---which is mostly true anyway XD
oh man
germany, england etc: refuse to send their best artists
also them: why didn't we win whiiiiiine
I genuinely start to believe that they suck at originality. They can produce popular commercial music, but something novel is too alien for them. Why send Blood and Glitter, when they have Rammstein? Also UK, why send no names with terrible popsy songs? At least it's not dancing middle finger, but still pretty poor.
@@MJ-uk6lu the thing is that in these big 5 countries, Eurovision is usually seen as less aspiring and serious than in other countries. and they've been in it for so long and get through the final everytime, so sending good artists every year would have damming hostinh costs. but yeah, i think the main point is that it's really not seen as quite as aspirable, and also they're already famous, so Rammstein for example would just decline
And then just after the contest they release a banger that is "Allemagne 0 points" lmao
As a spaniard, the spanish slander is very well justified. We have been sending shit songs for a while now and it should be said.
same for the German entries
We've done it because:
1- We don't really benefit from getting even more tourism. Spain is THE tourism country
2- Being able to participate means risking having to host an expensive and unnecessary tourism campaign. So we send El Chiquilicuatre on his marry way to boycott ourselves
I mean.. the one time u send a killer song with an actual chaance to win, ukraine won for political reasons with an objecitvly worse song.
So yea...i wouldn't care that much.
find a cripled LGBT with a sad backstory to fart at a microphone and you'll probably win.
@@raleo7466 I never really thought about it that way, to be honest. Those are good points. Its just a shame that with so many good artists willing to put a good show and show their talents, we send the most boring, average and even ridiculous candidates.
I just wanna add that Marija Šerifović winning was a huge win for gay rights in Serbia. Gay parades went from bloodbaths to a slew of mostly verbal conflicts each year. I don't think I can explain enough how much her win humanized gay men and women in the eyes of a random citizen
The fact that she's not a conventionally attractive chubby woman also helped, because it was a display of pure talent taking the victory.
I'm a queer person from Russia and if I got a dollar every time a westerner says I'm too "regressive" for Europe I would.... Well, I would no longer live in Russia, that's for sure, but the way the understanding that a government's position doesn't necessarily reflect that of the common citizens doesn't seem to apply to "uncivilised" countries in the eyes of some progressive people from the west is... interesting.
Anyway, great video, loved to hear your thoughts on Eurovision
Same. I feel as if I don't exist sometimes
It's the same argument used against refugees running away from Middle East smh. There's a kernel of truth - just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't hold regressive views. But what can be done about the issue? Should we just leave people to die because they don't match our perfect morals or maybe we should do focus on integration? One solution is simple but antihuman. Another solution is something I prefer
i like how they censored tattoo girls. it's just profitable to view Russia as a regressive country. i'm all hands up for equal marriage in our country, but never in my life had i heard something smart coming from a western g-rights activist.
@@shab_nak that i gotta hard disagree with. We can't just discard the whole body of western activists' experience just because there are some dumb/misinformed people among them, at very least for the reason that the western gay rights movement has achieved what we can as of now only dream of. They too have a long road ahead, but not as long as us.
@@esserefveermold maybe i was a little too harsh to generalize them all, yes, but i can't say here are 'some', especially nowadays. and about their achievements... i think every adult human being has the right to live how they want if they don't harm others, but i never dreamed of hosting bunch of drag shows for kids or sending trans women, who are convicted r*pists, to women's prisons. and these things ARE happening, and i am not getting it from our crazy TV programs, bc i don't watch TV. i always wanted to emigrate, to be able to marry who i want, but for the past decade i've lost any sense of respect for these people. i know perfectly well there are some (yeah, some) really smart and worthy to listen, but you know how it is, stupidity is always the loudest.
Thanks for talking about the divide between Western and Eastern Europe Verity. The racism from west to east is such an insidious constant and it is barely, if ever acknowledged for what it is.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. It shouldn’t be as shocking as it is to see this spoken about in a youtube video… but it is because literally no one talks of it, ever. No one talks of how Eastern Europe used to be occupied (by Russia mostly) or controlled by other counties, people still believe we hold the same beliefs as the USSR and have so many different stereotypes in their heads. No one talks of how serfdom (basically slavery) existed and how hard it was for countries to gain independence etc… it’s quite frankly upsetting. People often speak of Europe as this colonising continent…but they don’t realise that’s not at all what about half the continent did. That’s the west. The east had mostly nothing to do with any of it and the people here suffered a lot. It shouldn’t be as overlooked as it is. (Sorry for the rant, but this has annoyed me for a while)
the racism you are talking about is xenophobia,racism is something different,also the people that have been facing the racism are romani people not eastern europeans
@@hurremhightower
Racism is just a fancy word for xenophobia really, because people don't fucking care to actually discriminate along real genetical subgroups.
The sámis for example are about effectively as more or less white as the rest of the nordic population, but they sure as hell faced the entire racist genocide shtick regardless, comparable to the genocide of Native North Americans.
The only difference is that the modern shit talk goes from "it's in their genes to be [insert bad]" to "it's in their culture to be [insert bad]", but it's functionally about the same.
The romas however face much more intense racism from basically everywhere in Europe, I'l agree with that.
It’s xenophobia, not racism. While I get your point. And the discrimination is real, don’t equate those two.
Lets be real, if it werent for the war with Russia, Ukraine would have been bashed like he rest of Eastern European countries by the West, its just their hatred of Russia is stronger than their hatred of Ukraine right now. Or have we already forgotten how the east was viewed in media and news just a few years ago?
It goes even deeper than that. If you look at who got the #2 death slot across the final and semi-finals since 2013, it's overwhelmingly Eastern or Baltic countries.
When Cyprus in 2007 wanted to do a slow motion effect during their performance, it was rejected by the organisers/EBU. Then, a few years later in 2012, Loreen had the same effect.
Same happened with Romania in 2014, they wanted to have holograms on stage but that wasn’t allowed. Guess who had holograms next year…
As a Spanish lesbian dating a Bulgarian woman, the paradox and strange treatment of East vs West is a constant talking point at home. Loved your video, felt fair yet funny as always.
Only halfway through but already finding this so interesting!!
So excited for eurovision week but now with awareness of its flaws and history ❤
I am an Eastern LBTQ Ally, and honestly yeah I kind of do feel a bit of a double standard. This year with Luke Black who presents in a very feminine way (even though he never openly stated that he's queer I think) I saw some comments being like "Oh damn, Serbia is so homophobic." responding to some of the hate comments he was getting...So when people attacked Conchita then it's just homophobes being homophobes but when homophobes attack someone in an eastern country then an entire country is apparently homophobic?...Idk it just feels like you're always being "othered", and yes obviously homophobes do exist in eastern countries and we do have problems, but the idea that no queer people or queer allies exist is just...Ludacrious. Marija Serifovic is a very acclaimed and loved singer in our country, everybody respects her talent, we have a gay prime minister, and there are plenty of gay communities fighting for their rights, not to mention all the positive comments Luke Black received this year. Sadly yeah, there is homophobia and it sucks and should be stopped but being constantly painted with a homophobic brush isn't helpful and actually helps homophobes justify their horrible views as in "Oh well the west is "othering" us because we're still trying to preserve good christian family values, we are the last bastion of civility and tradition". This is obviously common with all homophobes universally who hate progress of human rights, but with eastern homophobes it adds an extra layer of nationalism which is why it's much more difficult to escape.
The sad thing about queer movements in Eastern countries is that they tend to lean against national interests, largely due to the layer of nationalism trying to oppose "western values" you mentioned. Because of this western styled pride movements do not have a traction in the public perception because often than not, the loudest queer political advocates are the ones that are always against every national interest of the nation, even those that are not actually against queers or have anything to do with pride movement. And if you want to have a conversation with them, they shut down the discussion fairly quickly and call you all manors of isms, ists, or phobe. Its like they actively do not want any allies, which is pretty bad cause they are a lot of queer people that have nuanced opinions that would be a great bridge between communities, but are never given a spotlight as the annoying slacktivist ones. Queers have to lean all in pro-Western (not even necessarily liberal, just pro-western in every aspect of politics) or they are shunned from queer community, which alienates a lot of queers even more in a society that already views them as an negative aggregate. The polarized political landscape has made it impossible to improve queer rights, and current methods of pride activism do not work in Eastern European countries. They need to be adjusted to the social and cultural environment they are in, and they start changing peoples perceptions.
As a Russian it's so sad to see the Russian 2019 contestant, Polina Gagarina, interviewed by the queer icon, Conchita Wurst, given that today Polina Gararina is a Z person, supporting the war with Ukraine. So I wouldn't be sorry for Russia not being allowed to Eurovision now, since the war is still going on.
Wow I'm subscribed to your channel and I just discovered your comment here by chance! The world is small!
It's so ironic that she shot to fame singing tsois 'kukushka'.
Polina Gagarina participated in 2015 not 2019.
Observing Polish entries since. pretty much forever but especially the famous milkmaid performance is so interesting. My country is really bent on "not conforming" to gay way of Eurovision and especially after christian fundamentalists took power they seem bent on sending the most unstraight, generic songs to the contest (our entries are pretty much picked by government to be honest). I actually really want a day to come when Poland wins because it will mean they broke their fear of queerness. After Michał Szpak who got ridiculed in country for his GNC look took 3rd place in audience vote it became quite obvious that for Poland to win it needs to go gay and i hope this day will come, but it's an incredibly unlikely scenario. Not to mention my countrymen's reaction that would occur if anyone gay competed again.
yeah, also AFAIK Michał is queer himself, but he came out long after his performance in Eurovision
Ehh if only jann represented us this year
i mean... a country should win cus they send good songs.
If all it takes for the win is a gay singer then people are right to mock eurovision.
It has clearly became something else... i know a lot of people who refuse to watch due to it being purely political and not a song contest.
What would happen if all countries sent LGBT people to perform?
Who would win then? xD
Blanka only competed in Eurovision all because of her being good friends with the Eurovision eliminations judge's (Edyta Górniak, who was 2nd place in 1994) son.
Im an MA student hoping to do a PHD about Eurovision and research it as a career, and this is my schtick basically. So refreshing to hear. How and when things are deemed political in Eurovision is just so clearly to me, a way for the powerful to exert their place over the less powerful, for western Europe to keep Eastern Europe in check and uphold our own political hegemonic values.
The politics championed by the EBU and the Eurovision reference group are not only obviously political, but an active prioritisation, and any decisions on controversies must be discussed as such.
It's kind of funny to me that people think eastern eu shouldn't support gay performances, while we are literally the people fighting for queer rights rn because we don't have them in many countries. It makes way more sense for us to send acts that have themes of lgbtq as a protest than any country that already has it normalised. And to be quite fair, homophobic people exist both in the west and in the east so because we are post-soviet/communist doesn't mean the values are the same. As most of the post-soviet countries wanted to erase most soviet ideologies. Overall i feel like western europe and tbh even northern america are way more performatively inclusive than eastern eu and they are trying to pry on our downfall while we are still trying to build up our countries. I have had so many discussions over me being from a post soviet country and that i probably think backwards and that everyone is racist and homophobic while in reality even though those things exist bc they exist everywhere, i feel like it's actually not as bad as in many progressive countries where it is such a big deal in most conversations.
don't know where are you from but it 100% resonated with me, a Polish person
Tbh ive never experienced racism the way i did while i lived in moscow.
As a Central European (although to some I'm Eastern...) THANK YOU SO MUCH for acknowledging the unspoken status quo. I live in UK for 7 years now and I often feel like a second class citizen just because I'm "Eastern". I felt that especially at university, when teachers would introduce "fun, integrating activities" and would ask us to say our favourite UK cinema chain, or guess lyrics of Disney songs in English, which I couldn't participate in for obvious reasons, and when I was pointing it out, I was met with uncomroftable silence... "The West" is very hypocritical and barely anyone sees it.
@@ApricusInaros well, I mentioned things that happened AT UNI, which should be accommodating as there are differences from all over the world there. So yes, I expect better of them
@@ApricusInaros idk if you understand the point of a university, but go on, tell me about my attitude lol
@@ApricusInaros still better than my home country 🙃
@@ApricusInaros typical condescending Brit. Instead of actually trying to have an ounce of empathy, you say stupid passive aggressive shit to invalidate any foreigner's feelings towards your perfect country. Oh to be white and privileged.
The first sentence has such a strong "Tell me you're Czech without saying you're Czech" vibe
This sure aged like fine wine...!
Such an interesting point about invasion, I’m Australian, and the first year I went to a Eurovision party was 2021 and everyone there made a big show about giving Israel zero points in our own little score board, but we were all still totally fine to give points to the UK, to France and even to Australia, which we of course knew first hand is still in the process of illegally occupying other peoples land
I didn’t say anything at the time because I didn’t want to sound like I was trying to defend Israel, but it struck me as a particular kind of contradiction … like if I was to actually pull on that thread, the enjoyment of the whole night might unravel…
@@Zeetana1 Might does not make right
I’m writing about the ESC being a display of soft power and identity politics for a university project right now. This was really helpful, and you listed amazing literature that I did not find yet. Thanks a lot ❤
Good luck, it’s a great topic you choose! :)
I still feel this conflict extremely where I live. I grew up in east Germany,after the wall was down but it’s still in the minds of the ppl. I’d say my childhood was influenced by Eastern Europe/Slavic culture (mostly fairytales and Food tho). Even if I grew up in a ,united’ Germany it does NOT feel this way. We’re often the but of the joke in politics. Very good Video and important topic!! :)
As a Norwegian I'm so proud of Alexander Rybak (2009 winner), even though he's both belarusian and Norwegian. At least he dared mention pride while in Russia o.O
I LOVE this year’s Norwegian song
Worth to mention that time when sang "Rise Like a Phoenix" on the Russian TV and was dressed like Conchita!
Omg thank you so much for covering this!!
As a russian bisexual woman I'd say that Eurovision was always a safe place that I can enjoy thinking that that's how it should be - free and tolerant, flashy and welcoming, ignoring the political side of that (cause, yk, I live in that _funny_ country). I remember that I liked Conchita's perfomance and got bullied by my music teacher and classmates for liking something like that (bruh).
Hatari got way too much trouble for simply waving a flag. Everyone in the audience is waving a flag so why can’t they??
They didn't "simply wave a flag". They showed disrespect to the hosting country during the biggest international music event.
@polinabernard7579 and did you not think it was disrespectful for the show to take place on top of a village which was destroyed after the native Palestinians were kicked out?? Or are only a certain type of people allowed to feel disrespected?
@@itshaleena759 historical and political issues should not be taken into account, especially not in ESC, which was created to unite. It only should be about music
@polinabernard7579 which I would agree with, except for the fact that exceptions have already been made. For example, the Russia ban, why is occupation good for one country and bad for another? Or even the pink washing mentioned in this video
@@itshaleena759 "For example, the Russia ban, why is occupation good for one country and bad for another?" - don't ask me
As a huge ESC fan it's so interesting to me when people try to argue that certain songs should not be allowed because they're too political and it's an apolitical contest when in reality it has just never been that way lmao. And if we can't recognize that Eurovision has problematic aspects, then we're never going to be able to improve it. Azerbaijan and Israel should not be allowed to compete because they keep comitting acts of colonialism against their neighbors. But nobody at the EBU wants to recognize that, and probably won't until other countries actively start to protest their participation. Just like it took multiple countries threatening withdrawal for them to ban Russia.
Seriously, I don’t understand how Israel hasn’t also been expelled in the last few years :/ and I’m a Jew who supports a two state solution, but there’s basically nothing left in the Israeli government to defend even tho many will try lol
It’s really sad to see such a comment about Azerbaijan taking into account the fact that it was Armenia who occupied the sovereign territory of Azerbaijan for almost 3 decades and ethnically cleansed its territory making more than 600.000 people become refugee. Armenia still has territorial claims about every neighbouring country (except for their ally Iran)
In 2014 it was not just gay/not gay theme
Russia has occupied Crimea just 2 months before Eurovision
And voices from other countries were some form of support to this event (as well as allowing them to participate was kinda political step from orgs)
Conchita's song was great, btw
I'm living in East Asia and I meet people from different backgrounds. Who both know and don't know history of other countries and politics. But it's always so interesting meeting people who are in Eastern Europe or West Asia and seeing how they have a well-covered infiriority complex that is created to them in their countries that ismore like trying to constantly behave or prove they are "more european" or more like "proper" and have a lot of bad things to say about their countries andcultures and especially consider non traditional cutlural things are better.
And this made me feel more valid because I've experienced this in my own country but I thought it was our problem We were not good enough, advanced enough or modern enough, but when you go abroad, especially far from the West's influence, you get perspective.
And what's described in this video is definitely something I've been realizing more and more. Great to see it spoken so well here.
I come away from every video of yours with sharper critical analysis skills and a better sense of power relations. While also having fun. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 thank you for what you do!