The Big Problem With Fighting Games
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2023
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We all know the lines at this point. Something like “single player doesn’t matter, 1v1 is the real game!” or “well… it’s fine for beginners”, and other such ways of trying to excuse the low quality of single player content in fighting games. In this video, we will explain why exactly does the single player in fighting games suck so much, list some examples of both good and bad, and argue that things should change and that fighting game players deserve better, regardless of whether they are newbies who want a fun time fighting AI, or veterans who could benefit from it in other ways.
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You guys have likely played plenty of fighting games, which one had a single player mode or campaign that you truly liked, and most importantly, why did you like it?
Dead Or Alive 5 because it gave characters motivations.
While it's not crazy innovative, I liked the way SC6 did things with the timeline idea. Every character had their thing going on, but a lot of the time it also had elements that fed into the greater narrative. Libra of Souls was boring in comparison though, cause it's a whole lot of nothing happening very slowly.
Now in terms of gameplay, uhh... I can't think of anything other than Tekken Force. Kept replaying that over and over and over back in the way.
Tekken 8 looks amazing and idk what there is to complain about that game
Them fighting herds and idol showdown
@@SnowflakeSSQ exactly what I am saying he’s just nitpicking on the bowling people were actually happy that came through his take on that whole bowling incident was just stupid 😂 yeah 7 story was not as good as six but I don’t know tekken 8 seems perfect to me, and there’s more to come due to the leaks volleyball, bowling, etc no matter what it is the far superior
Soul Calibur III’s Chronicles of the Sword single player to this day is still my favorite fighting game single player experience. They had an entire rpg-like game mode based around your created character and even gave us our own weapons and move sets instead of being clones of the primary fighters. Highly highly underrated in my opinion
Masahiro Sakurai sort of admits that subspace emissary 2 will never happen because people only cared about the cutscenes, which were made available online before the game released. The amazing character trailers rose from its ashes, but the problem still persists. If gameplay is so unimportant that everyone is satisfied with just watching a movie, than the video game has failed. Fighting games have the issue of either being basic vs matches over and over again that get tedious, over ambitious games within a game that players will dabble in for a bit, then drop and go back to what they came for. A balance of gameplay and presentation is harder than anticipated, and it will take several more years before someone gets it perfect.
There is a fighting game that has what I consider the greatest story mode in any fighting game: this game is EAs Fight Night Champion.
Not only has it an okay, even though a bit clichéd, story, but not only convey it through gameplay (there is a part where you play the antagonist Isaac Frost fighting the protagonist´s brother and killing him in the end, and Isaac Frost is the strongest fighter in the roster), it also teaches all the nuanced game mechanics in it. Basically it´s an overboarding tutorial with a well written story attached to it. I wished other (proper) fighting games would adopt that, maybe something like you have to win by a particular move or you have to dodge roll in KOF like twenty times because Heidern doesn´t want to hurt Leona even in her orochi state. So basically that you cannot progress the story without succeeding in the different mechanics the game has to offer, or, in less & other words, coaching the noobs!
Don't forget Def Jam
Tekken 8 really looks to be the gold standard in terms of making the game accessible & teaching the player the game mechanics. When the AI can feel as fun to challenge as a human, but without resorting to reading player inputs is when I'll consider the job done.
Yea not to also forget, there’s more to come soo off-line play is very valid
I haven't played a fighting game in a while, but definitely looking forward to Tekken 8.
So it is Street Fighter 6 VS Tekken 8 now?
I kinda wished they updated world tour more instead of just adding masters. I was hoping the side missions would be like yakuza but my expectations was too high.
It's wild that they don't, considering they keep putting out stuff that you can only use with your avatar.
They did and the fact that you think they didn't is the problem.
@@BlueLightningSkyAre you talking about master quests or something? Cause they definitely didn't add anything for the main quest stuff or other things would be more meaningful.
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to rely on a company whose only online game at one point was about monster hunting and was basically an MMO if you squint hard enough
It's nice to see more people talk about the single player content of fighting games (or lack thereof). As someone who is not a competitive nor online player but grew up with fighting games as a kid of the 90s, the single player was just right for someone like me. I'm more of a 3D fighting game player and not so much a 2D one so most of the fighting games I play are 3D fighters with the occasional 2D and if you were to ask me which fighitng game had the best single player content experience, I would choose Soul Calibur 3 (I'm surprised you didn't mentioned it lol). It had a large cast full of all the characters plus some interesting newcomers, offered a ton of single player modes like the "Mission Mode", a full campaign mode with Chronicles of the Sword (that had a decent-ish story), an immersive story mode for the main cast (for the time, it did get repetitive), and a rather nice character creation (for it's time). Sure the fighting mechanics from what I've heard form more competitive players was not all that great but honestly to someone like me who doesn't play it seriously, I wasn't bothered by that and the gameplay still functioned just fine despite the occasional glitch. IMO, Soul Calibur 3 was the best of it's series because it just went downhill for SC4, SC5, and then got a slight rejuvenation with SC6.
In saying all this though, I definitely have noticed this shift with lack of single player content when it comes to the 3D fighting games I followed with. It's crazy to me that Tekken 7 is my least touched Tekken game but I just have to be honest that as a single player guy, it didn't offer all that much and I got bored with it rather quickly. And it made me think back to how previous Tekken games managed to keep my attention for much longer. Even Tekken 6 which wasn't my most favorite for awhile (until Tekken 7 lol) only upon reflection did manage to keep my attention more, especially with Scenario Campaign mode that was actually fun to play despite the (imo) crap story. And I didn't even bother with Dead or Alive 6 because Dead Or Alive 5 felt pretty underwhelming compared to the older DOA games.
I will say though that it was cool to see what Street Fighter 6 did with that World Tour mode. While I was never a Street Fighter person, from the footage I've seen of World Tour, I gotta give props for them actually trying an open world. Sucks that there isn't much exploration but it was a nice step forward into the idea. And with GrnaBlue Fantasy and Them's Fightin' Herds, while I will most likely never play these games, that is very cool that they experimented with hose non-fighting game genres.
Anyway, after hearing your critique on the way that fighting games have been trying to put full-on cinematic scenes into the game's stories which cost a lot of money to do, it makes even more sense why we've seen this decline with single player content in fighting games compared to the 6th generation (PS2 / Xbox / Gamecube era) where a lot of these companies were still using in-game cutscenes that didn't cost as much and allowed them to explore more single player content to include in the games. It's to a point where I'd rather they go back to doing in-game cutscenes if it it meant that they could give a full-fledged single-player experience again while saving the cinematic stuff for either a movie or shorts.
Oh yeah, let’s just make a Yakuza-level high budget game, while also making a solid fighting game with new and robust mechanics that’s also tournament balanced, at the exact same time.
While I do wish this were the case, it’s really not feasible with the budgets that are given to the devs. Also, not all FG players want single player, some just want the core fighting game.
Right? Its not like i play yakuza and complain that it doenst have a fully functional online multiplayer with a big roster of diverse characters
He talking about casual who will drop the game in 3 weeks these people want story and something to keep them entertained unfortunately the core fighting of the genre is what people dislike the most
@@nasirbarbee5940 core fighting could still be in story mode, that's how it's done in mortal kombat and injustice. And in Injustice 2, you can do fights in the multiverse that are single player and reward you with content. Netherealm shows that fighting games don't have to lack behind in single player modes and can also be good online competive fighters.
If a fighting game is dropped after three weeks, it likely wasn't good anyway. Despite the focus or no focus on single player content.
Absolver comes to mind. Singplayer is main mode, while duels vs real player is second. And you can be ambushed by some stranger random player who just invade your world
While competitive modes will always be the main focus, sometimes a good single player mode can help with the variety or at least help bring in more players who maybe don't want to hop straight into online multiplayer. Plus it's just fun picking your favorite character and doing something else with them. I'll always love the quest mode of Tobal for this. Also, for anyone who enjoyed the quest mode from Ehrgeiz, you should check out Crimson Tears, and Appleseed EX (all made by Dream Factory) since those games are basically full versions of the Forsaken Dungeon.
Soul Blade was really good. Great stories and each character having 2 different endings one of which was decided by a minigame. It had a quest mode which followed your character's story in another way around the globe. Match conditions and objectives would change from fight to fight like having a strong wind or being poisoned etc. It had collectible weapons with different stats and ranges. Soul Calibur 3 was another great one with an RTS mode and a really good create mode where you could create movesets that were not on the roster. There's also Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution.
So glad someone else mentioned Soul Calibur 3. To me, Soul Calibur 3 was the best Soul Calibur game in terms of it's single-player ocntent. Chronicles of the Sword was quite interesting, the character creator was pretty deep for it's time (not on the level of WWE games but still, it offered so many clothes to choose and combine plus the secondary weapon styles), and even the way the main cast's story mode with Tales of Souls was pretty immersive for the time as well.
Yeah, I totally agree and I really think that you are onto something here. Everyone likes different games for different reasons, but the evolution of fighting games is very stagnant. They are mostly all cut from the same cloth and use pretty much the same blueprint.
I fully agree. Specially with the part about fighting games asssuming from the start they don't need to do better with their story, and players don't even expecting anything decent from the story modes.
I think it's best for fighting games to switch to an "online PvP" focused live-service model. Because when people pick up MOBAs, battle royales, or cards games, they generally don't expect these games to have much single-player content. They know they came here to play online PvP against other people.
On the other hand, fighting games are needlessly ambiguous about what they're trying to be. They sell you a full-price video game, yet in practice, the main focus of the community is going to be the competitive online side. FGs nowadays have season passes and all that jazz as if they're legit live-service games, but in practice, they don't do any special events or release nearly enough content to compete with proper live-service games.
So, the end product ends up missing both audiences. It features single-player content that's usually not worth your time because you can just play a better game. Similarly, they don't give people enough incentive to regularly play the online PvP portion, so many people leave after the "honeymoon phase".
I bought mk1. Watched the story mode on UA-cam rather than play it. Didn't even bother unlocking havik. Grinded KL until I couldn't take it anymore. Uninstalled. Now I play elden ring arena as my premier fighting game. A fighting game where the single player mode does not insult.
you didn't even play single player mode, how can you judge it?
So you ended up not playing a fighting game
Lol
Since you mentioned Yakuza, wouldn't it be fun to have a Yakuza fighting game? They basically have a good amount of roaster already, including the side quest characters that joins you in a fight.
A vs mode,
Arcade mode with character ending
A co-op beat em up
A single player story mode basically a yakuza game but shorter
Man I'd love to add that to my Yakuza collection
I mean, I don’t see a problem with it, but the Director himself stated that he didn’t want to make another fighting game🤕
Yakuza was inspired by Shenmue which was also supposed to be a spinoff of Virtua Fighter
I'm amused at citing Them's Fightin' Herds as a positive example after they've announced Chapter 1 and an incomplete Chapter 2 will be the entirety of their story mode content.
They got screwed by their publisher, but they still had an objectively creative approach to story mode
@@TheRadioSquare Where can I learn more about what happened with the publisher? I don't recall much mention of having a publisher in the Indiegogo emails.
@@TheRadioSquare Thanks for pointing that out, I found an article on Eventhubs detailing it. I think I'm gonna get in contact with Modus.
@@AnnCatsanndra They had a deal with Humble until late 2021, then Maximum Games (Modus is their division) bought TFH in 2022 and recently Modus sacked almost everyone at Mane6. Their QA dev said she can't really disclose any details but it seems like they simply weren't profitable enough for Maximum to give them money to develop the game further.
I 100% agree with you! The problem is they put so much effort on a cinematic story mode that you go through once, with hardly all of the roster, and then there's no reason to replay it. A lot of effort goes into online to which I understand, but it's frustrating.
World Tour is cool, but you can only make one character, and there's not much to do with the cast characters. And there's not much to unlock outside of WT
MK1 Invasions is ok, just gets way too repetitive
Tekken 8 looks OVERALL the best, what I don't like is that a lot of the single player seems like it might be just trying to get you ready for online, instead of just purely focusing on being fun. And they kinda brought back Tekken force, but it's supposedly story mode only and you can only be Lars
Tekken ball being back is legendary though
@@SnowflakeSSQ Yeah I guess that is cool
I remember soul caliber 2 had a good blade master mode
Tekken is on another level very high level
Love this video essay style of FGC content 😁👍
About your question on what had after tekken3/tobal and before the likes of grandblue, my favorite style of the singleplayer content is the one in the likes of Smash Bros Meele. Fuck story mode, give me lots of different smaller singleplayer modes like break the targets, board the platforms, homerun contest, event, polygon team .... and even the "arcade mode" you have like 3 different ways to go with all star (kinda roguelike with the same life), classic and adventure (with some small platform sections sprinkled here and there). More modes, not one mode that will change your life. Alpha 3 also had some versions with this aproach, specially the PSP version with lots of modes
Mk9, old Blazblue and more had awesome story modes.
I actually blame us as consumers for how this is. Since the competitive scene is just fine with Ranked PVP and Training Mode "being the only modes an FG needs" and casual players of these games never demanding anything more than an Arcade ladder, a visual novel that you don't even play, and maybe a mission mode. It's no wonder these games haven't evolved. I was just telling my son the other day that SF is essentially the same package I played in the arcades in the 90s and they wonder why they can't get people his age interested in the genre.
Are you only talking about 1 player modes that aren't the traditional fighting modes? Because Alpha 3 world Tour and Soul Calibur's 1player modes were great but they were indeed just 1v1 or 1v2 (in A3's case) fights. Virtua Fighter 4 Evo also had the full quest mode where you play the role of a VF competitor traveling to arcades to play real "ghost" characters of high level VF players around Japan. The crazy thing is they actually played very similarly to those top level players.
It's interesting how World Tour is touted as revolutionary when anime arena fighters have had this mode or similar for years.
In what anime fighter can you create your own character, shape their fighting style, earn money and buy clothes etc?
@@newphonewhodis7152 Xenoverse 2, to an extent One Punch Man...
Also Jump Force...
I can happily play fighting games on single player for hours. Even tekken 7 with its very limited single player experience had me playing for hours. If the fights during story mode aren’t fun to you, maybe up the difficulty. Maximilian dood seems to have a blast playing on the highest difficulty. Create your own fun. “Boring people get bored”
Yes fighting games should have extra modes like Force and Weapon master, but if they don’t you can make your own modes.
Me and my friend do “World Tour” which is fight every character in some sort of order on the hardest mode. We do it together on a team in DOA and Def jam. When he’s not here I do it on my own.
“It’s good… for a fighting game” is sooo unfair. The extra modes aren’t the Devs main focus and never should be. Just like multiplayer modes in single player games aren’t the focus. Uncharted multiplayer mode was really fun, but it doesn’t compare to overwatch. Overwatch story modes are fun but they don’t compare to uncharted.
Single player games half the time cost more than fighting games and don’t have any replay ability. We asking too much from Devs that already have massive crunch and meh pay.
If the modes aren't the main focus and shouldn't be, then saying that the modes are good for a fighting game is appropriate, unless you raise your standards for fighting games.
Your last sentence just doesn't make any sense at all because it's so incoherent to me.
@@channel45853 chile this is 6 months old
I, myself, tend to play fighting games for... the fighting. Never cared about the story.
good for you
The Game that brought the most Value After You beat the Game was Hybrid Heaven for N 64. I never understood why Konami never made a Second Game i guess 2003 just Wasnt the Time for this Type of Game anymore.
I think sf6 got it right… I play world tour more than rank match matches. I wish sega would add a fighting game mode in their gaiden and like a dragon series instead of the tedious grind missions.
World Heroes had a death match mode, where elements of the stage could hurt you. It was a gimmick but I really enjoyed playing it.
I suspect fighting games are made nowadays with esports in mind, so the likes of capcom won’t experiment too much with
Single player modes. It’s one of the reasons why I stopped buying fighting games.
But I’ll still buy cod games, because even the lesser titles come with bot multiplayer. I get to experience something other tdm, capture the flag or zombies without connecting online. Blitz, hardline and hunted are all fun eitj bots.
It can’t be too hard to cobble together arcade mode with rpg or tower defense elements.
Cool story bro but fighting games are about playing against other people. A good story mode is just a cherry on the cake.
no, they are about fighting. which can be done against cpus or real people.
While i dont agree with a lot of things in this video, actually the big majority , i believe fighting games need more single players content, specially if they "recycle" content, a good example is the beat'n up mode in GBV, recycle the gameplay and try to do something simple and unique, my favorite example is Idol Showdown, this free indie game have a rogue like mode, this is by far my favorite single player mode and I hope for more fighting games do something similar.
The biggest problems with single player mode now is that your pretty much forced to play just the main characters while your favourites may only get a brief moment or chapter…
Also as you rightly mentioned it’s just like watching a movie with a few really awkward fights that disrupt the pacing…
I’m huge Tekken fan but honestly I never even played Tekken 7s story mode - I just watched it all on UA-cam and eventually unlocked everything through racking up thousands of fights…. I did play the character chapters for my mains though…
I’ll probably do the same with Tekken 8 and just jump straight into online battles then watch the story later on UA-cam.
the traditional arcade mode where you play your character and get a cut scene was simple but it worked and was better in my opinion…
I think I’d rather they just turn the story mode into a full movie…
To add to your first point, I would also include how the concept of unlocking characters in game is not much of a thing these days and instead, you these characters are made into DLC... I think back to the older Tekken games where it practically forced you to play with most of the characters in order to unlock other characters and how in a way, that helped you test out which characters you felt the most comfortable playing as.
I never liked the gimmicky tekken 6 single player mode, i much prefer the "movie mode" of mortal kombat and injustice
i think injustice 1 with its mini games (or qtes basically) before starting some fights were good, and i think netherrealm making it to where you can choose between two fighters in the story is also progression that i like
i would take that over a beat em up mode
I'm fine with a basic arcade mode with an ending. They don't have to reinvent the wheel but at the same time, it's nice when they try something new. Of course the competitive aspect is the biggest part of a fighting game. But as a kid, what sparked my personal fandom was the single player experience. My friends hated fighting games. So if i didnt have those little single player modes with the small bit of story, I wouldn't be motivated to continue, nor would i care about the characters I'm using.
I'm a huge MK nerd. And in MK9, with the story mode, we had arcade ladders, challenge towers, test your might, test your luck, test your sight and an offline vs. and practice mode. Tekken 3 had Arcade, Tekken Force, Team Battle, etc. Now, MK1 has Story, Arcade, Vs. and practice for offline offerings. Tekken 8, while going in the right direction, has story, character episodes that limit you to the default skin, Vs. Tekken Ball, arcade quest and super ghost battle. I'd be alot more satisfied if the match count for character episodes were raised from 5-10 like a typical arcade mode with the use of custom skins with more variety. And Tekken force.
Im afraid that live service will become the norm, and it's sad. Because not everyones internet is consistent. What if a storm knocks out the connection and you got the itch to play Tekken, but suddenly it's online only, because "people only play these games for PVP anyway"? It's limiting. And those offline modes give new players the opportunity to make their movelists muscle memory without the consequence of mercilessly getting their asses kicked. And even if they do, they'll have the option to continue to enjoy the game at the level most comfortable to them while being rewarded for it.
Plus it gives designers an out to put as minimal content in their game as possible.
I never care for single gameplay in fighting games. They bore me to tears. Fighting against good opponents is everything in real fighting games.
In Injustice 1, there was a mingame you play to determine how much health you have when fighting your opponent during story mode. I was disappointed when they removed it in Injustice 2.
Single player content in past fighting games kept many players glued. Tekken 3 to 6 is the best example of it. Hell Soul Calibur 3 had a lot more content going on like playing Tales of Souls and Mortal Kombat Armageddon had Konquest mode, The Krypt and Kart Racing. Online wasn't prominent in the 2000s than it is now though games like Mortal Kombat Deception, Dead Or Alive 3, 2 Ultimate and 4 had online features. Tekken 7 is best playing online since single player is lacking and not fun at all and I refuse paying for PlayStation Plus just to play online.
Story mode in fighting games are hit and miss. Injustice 1 and 2 have a good story though it has its flaws while Tekken 7, DOA 6, Mortal Kombat 11 and Street Fighter 5 are trash not because of the mechanics, because most characters don't have much time to shine(I'm looking at you Tekken 7). Paul in Tekken went from feuding with Kazuya to fighting bears, Eddy went for searching for Kazuya for the death of his father to becoming Lucky Chloe's back up dancer, Honoka and Marie Rose are the main characters in DOA 6 while forgetting that Kasumi is the main character since DOA 1 and wants to defeat Victor Donavon after the end of DOA 5 and somehow shoehorn Honoka as the cousin of Kasumi and the sister of Ayane(Kasumi and Ayane are sisters by having the same mother but different fathers and Honoka and Ayane are sisters via the same father Raidou), let's not forget D'Vorah kills Scorpion(Hanzo Hasashi) when it should have been Bi Han(Noob Saibot) since Bi Han was killed by Scorpion in Mortal Kombat. Story mode can be good like Injustice but after that story mode got really bad. Street Fighter 5 was launched with bare bones, Tekken 7 had its budget slashed due to Tekken Tag 2 poor sales and DOA 6 was so bad that we might never get another DOA game in the future.
Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8 are trying to make single player good again like it was during the 2000s and this year fighting games are coming back from the disillusionment stage in the 2010s. I'm looking forward to Tekken 8.
Most single player action adventure modes are trash and generally get shit on for being lackluster so I'm not really sure why you would advocate to have them in more games.
Essentially what you're asking is developers spend time, money, and resources developing two separate games that don't really feed into each other since beat em up style games/ action adventure games don't really mesh with fighting games smoothly. Id rather have more fleshed out characters and learn more about the world and actually play the fighting game then spend time in a separate mode that's not really gonna help me learn the game.
It's not that they should be in more games, it's that they need to be there and they need to be good. Look at Titanfall. First game only had MP, nobody cared about it. Second game kept the intense multiplayer but also added a great story mode that is still hailed as one of the best in the FPS genre.
If fighting games can't offer a full package they won't be getting big sales, and if they don't get big sales, they will get little support and continue to die out months after release unless they have a big name attached.
@@TheRadioSquare the difference here is that they need to develop two separate games to accomplish that. Your action adventure mode and then the fighting game ( the thing you're actually paying for ) don't synergize. The fighting game is what's going to give the game longevity not the action adventure mode people are just gonna play once. A game like titan fall is still sharing the same resources and mechanics from single player and multiplayer where as a game like Tekken, devil within vs actual Tekken do not. Once more, your story adventure mode is not reinforcing concepts from the main game. The reason why all of these suck is it takes alot of resources to develop two separate games and developers are gonna focus on what people actually game for which is the fighting game portion since if that's bad no one is gonna care how good adventure mode was since your game will be dead in 6 months if the fighting system and balance is trash.
@@LordMoebius You are thinking backwards here, and I don't mean this as an insult. You say it's just some mode people will play once, but it's only the case because those mods don't give you something fun to do.
If we're just gonna keep going "it's ok that it sucks because nobody plays it and it takes too much effort" then why do it at all? Just put all those resources towards MP then and add more characters stages, cosmetics, etc.
But no, that doesn't work, people need SP modes, and SP modes is what helped to make MK the best selling fighting game ever, imagine if they also had good game designers and animators on top of that.
As for sharing mechanics, it's all a question of creativity on the part of the developers. I will forever praise Ball and Force because these mods took core parts of Tekken and did something unique with them, imagination is the limit here.
Some games modes are also just inherently easier to make. Like making a Yakuza clone is difficult, but what about a gauntlet of WarioWare style mini-games that are built on FG mechanics and get expanded every season? What about a Treasure Battle style roguelike mode where I could give my character unique modifiers like bigger limbs or some crazy mechanics? There's just too much space there for design, and given what we already get, they would have the money to execute it.
@@TheRadioSquare your entire viewpoint
is completely divorced from reality if you think fucking wario ware in a Tekken game makes sense and devs should throw a good chunk of their budget at it. They can make a single player portion that's similar to what's in Mortal Kombat (2023) and Tekken 7 i.e. a story mode, that makes sense! Ideally something that teaches you the lore and the mechanics of the fighting game. Additionally add maybe one mini game like bowl or golf or ball but an "adventure game deluxe" doesn't really make any sort of sense to develop since the entree here is the fighting game not the adventure game. There's very little in a Fighting game's mechanics that translates into other genres that are more single player friendly which is why so many of them are klunky and bad when they try something new. Your only logical option is to throw everything away from the fighting game and create an entire new game with its own mechanics but those take waaaay more resources to develop and they detract from the main experience you know.... The fighting game. The fighting game portion is the reason you bought Tekken or street fighter or Mortal Kombat not adventure mode deluxe. If adventure mode deluxe is outshining your fighting game then your fighting game failed ... And you're just gonna end up like Tobal.
I'm not sure what you're not getting here. There's limited time , money and resources to develop your fighting game. You can spend a good chunk of those things developing your mechanics and improving systems to make your fighting game have longevity.... Since that's why people are buying you're fighting game ... Or you can spend time and money and resources developing a whole other game separate from your fighting game that doesn't really synergize with the main game and detract from both experiences. You can't increase the budget cause that's not how things work ... So if you're a smart developer you're gonna concentrate on features that maximize engagement and familiarity with the game rather than create stuff that's just gonna distract from what You're really trying to sell.
@@LordMoebius I think you just don't understand what I'm talking about. Have you seen mini-games that have been in SF since SF2? Like it shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand that they could do something similar but make it more varied and faster paced to have a mode that people could have fun with on a regular basis.
Once again, it's not about making "a whole other games", that's not something anyone is suggesting, just something you are trying to push because you seem to completely lack any understanding of game development or the market.
I've never heard anybody bash street fighter 6 story mode.
As a kid I had a lot of fun with MK Konquest mode.
Konquest mode in Armaggedon was so freaking fun. Not the most deep but it didn't have to be since it wasn't a full-on action adventure game anyway.
one thing that i feel is missing in this is World tour isnt nothing new in the concept because MK Konqust in MK deception was like this like open world etc but sf 6 was great but now it feels really nothing is happing in sf 6 story even after the ending.
tekken and mk story modes gives atlest inside whats going and not getting told i did this but overall the story modes need to do more i agree on that
while i want better story modes or PVE modes like towers or a borad game are not enough atlest sowly we are getting there
GG strive i find the worse way to tell a story just a movie with no gameplay is boring why not give the me the story in a Blu ray and let me watch it then .
Strive I can somewhat understand why they did it, since Xrd story mode was already basically a visual novel, but it still makes no sense to turn it into a 4 hour movie. The worst part is that it's also budget as hell. They cut as many corners as they could in terms of new animations and assets for the story mode, it looks so cheap most of the time.
agree @@TheRadioSquare
as a tekken player we god story mode, character episodes,arcade quest, ghost battle and tekken ball so im pretty satisfied.i know its not an offline mode but reply system is pretty much a mode that you gonna need for ever
Don’t forget, bro stated there’s more to come in that whole section back there in the fighting lobby says bowling, so there is actually more to come 😂 meaning off line is very valid Shouldn’t even be up here with these other games. Nor in the conversation. T8 we are eating good. We are eating good.
T7's story mode blows but hopefully T8 picked up what was wrong with it.
@@suiken3149 it definitely is that thing says story mode, chapters, character, episodes what if battles 😤 not to also mention grinding for the cosmetics it’s going to be lit in game currency yes not no bullshit blood points like mk1 tekken 8 superior
I mean they can use the combat and translate it into a rogue like style beat them up or just make an open world rpg beat them up like yakuza. But games this days are mostly a cash grab, 0 inovation or implication to at least reuse good old ideas.
I got zero hopes for Tekken 8 story mode after seeing Azucena talk about how Mishima Zaibatsu provides good optics for her Coffee brand, but we all saw the leak about the other mode, so I'm really hoping they are bring back the classic and making it better than ever.
Other than that, it seems like FGs are at least realizing that they can make "at home" version of other games (Yakuza, Fall Guys) on their way to figure out how to make proper SP modes.
Azucena is working for G Corp, not the Mishima Zaibatsu. But yeah, she's got no conscience. 😭
bruh its tekken and tekken is known to be silly. tekken story needs to bee fun to play not a nrs story
@@KingKaiFistx20 It's not even about that for me, it's just wild that they are trying to weave her into the main story like that. Everyone was making fun of the whole "she's just about coffee" thing and it seems she's literally going to war now to promote a coffee brand, like cmon. It's like T4 is the only one where they tried to do something interesting with the characters.
@@TheRadioSquare Yeah, I'm just as surprised as you are at Azucena's inclusion into the main story. I thought she would be a side character like how Lucky Chloe was in T7. On another note, T4 nailed those early 2000's vibes with its dark tone and setting.
@@TheRadioSquareTekken fans were the ones who asked for the inclusion of every character into the story, that's what they're doing plus it's not like Azucena working for Kazuya just immediately makes the whole story bad.
Could have been let you play on a team with your friends in game modes like Street fighter 6 Tour but with streets of rage co-op but no.
VF4 Evolution had a semi-story mode where you would go from arcade to arcade as you build a reputation, fight in tournaments, and get cosmetics for the character you were playing.
To draw a comparison to something more recent, you can look at the little avatar mode in Tekken 8. It is just a more in depth and fleshed out version of a game mode released almost 20 years ago.
Not every genre is for everyone, and that's ok. The things you want more of in fighting games would be better suited for a game that's actually meant for the single player experience. It sounds like you want two genres at once; a fighting game and an action adventure game in one package.
you assume fighting games aren't for single players, that isn't true as netherealm games always valued single players and online players
i guess they are the exception to the rule, but prove that the rule doesn't have to be a rule and that it is self imposed
All namco has to do is make tekken force with the same gameplay as urban reign
Single modes will be played many times and at the end we will focus on online and ranking witch will remaine until the of the game cycle... Talking about tekken of course
You completely forgot (or didn't know about) the fighting game Ehrgeiz. Which came complete with it's own rpg mode. Or what about the Japanese version of Rival Schools, which had a full on dating simulator baked in!
Even the arcade version of Project Justice features a Story Mode where you have a set of team instead of picking them up individually,
KOF had trial mode and XIII's story mode should have been the standard throughout the series but no XIV and XV has been a disappointment when it comes to story mode. Soul Calibur's single player modes were also great
I was thinking a lot about this some weeks ago. and I came to a formula that I think could revolutionize the genre (who knows? speculating is free lol)
in my opinion, all fighting games should go free to play. you should have a basic small roster accessible to all players, and the game should launch without ANY single player content. they should focus ENTIRELY on pvp, or cooperative pve. the purpose of AI in these games were to substitute real players, as you couldn't have access to real players anytime at home. technology superated that. then, you should have different singleplayer games, with even different genres, to unlock additional characters. you don't just pay to unlock a character, you have to buy his game and beat it. so, for example, supposing we applied this to mk. sub zero and scorpion would be on the base roster, but to unlock smoke, reptile, kenshi and some other characters that would be relevant on the story, you would have to beat a stealth adventure game, something like a prince of persia of sorts. with it's own story and gameplay. yes, it would take a lot of resources. but the standard story mode in mk1 is already VERY resource hungry. if you want to be extra greedy, you could also put a cosmetic only season pass on top of the mainline fighting game. this way, we could have a waaaay superior mainline game, that could last for many years and serve as basis for lots of future additions (mk is very simple, so "matchup creep" and bloat isn't a big problem on it), and you could maintain interest on the game and casual players with more and more self contained games that have influence on the mainline, if you also play it. I would take this any time over the "movie with interruptions" style they use today. I mean, you could go wild with this. you could go for a hitman/metal gear style for special ops (jax and sonya), western fps for erron, and so on. those would be short games with cheap prices. but it would be infinitely more interesting for me, at least
he doesnt look like he really appreciates it tho, he looks like hes reading from a script lol
I'd take a full blown classic, superbly polished, arcade mode with a good prologue, in-game cutscenes here and there, and a beautiful in-engine or CGI ending over a bloated "story mode". I always enjoyed more knowing the characters that way. And if a movie like story mode is so needed, I'd go the Guilty Gear Xrd way. It's like a movie, with a real-time glossary for those complex terms, and episode based... no need to force fights not anything into the plot.
Now that I think about it, I believe Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2 is almost perfect in that aspect... and how it treated and treats single players and multiplayers.
GBVS does a pretty similar thing and yeah it's probably one of the better ways to handle story mode if it's not going to offer unique gameplay. No unnecessary fluff just narrative about the chars/world you care about.
@@TheRadioSquare Gonna get the new Rising version as soon as I get my paycheck! I'm eager to try that one.
@@osricen Hell yeah man, hope you enjoy it
Single player was great up until the around 2010 but its kinda shit now they all copying Mortal Kombat 9 where you control different charachters who you may not be familiar with as part of the story.
Arcade mode ladder with an ending is what I want.
Capcom, SNK, Namco all made this exciting in the 90's
You had "here comes a new challenger" in Street Fighter with an ending.
You had cutscenes in SNK games
Namco gave us story modes, charachter endings, and side modes like Tekken force.
You had secret charachters to fight against.
In SFA 1 you had M. Bison Dan and Akuma to fight against.
Cheats to unlock overpowered secret charachters like Cyber Akuma in Marvel vs Street Fighter.
Virtua Fighter really is the worst it has literally 0 story elements in game.
I totally agree with you on if you remove the fighting you remove nothing in games like Mortal Kombat sitting and watching a movie.
I don't want movies as games.
I think this is pretty reductive. You can't really pigeonhole Tekken 7 and 8's story mode into the same category as any NRS or Street fighter story mode.
I've often said NRS stories are more fun to watch than play. Tekken's is more fun to play than watch.
Yes they're all doing the cinematic story mode thing, but Tekken adds exclusive moves for both the player and computer as well as more engaging visuals to enhance the gameplay.
You definitely can. Name one fight in Tekken 7 story mode that was doing something mechanically interesting. There's the "press X to shoot" with Lars and and bosses getting a few unique moves, that's it. Considering you are still fighting shitty AI, it's not that exciting.
I'm a Tekken fan too, but that's why I want Tekken to keep pushing the envelope instead of defending them when they mess up. Arcade endings? The "episodes" in 7 are among the worst, and they didn't even bother to make those for DLC chars. SP modes? They scrapped Force and instead sold us Bowl. We didn't even get too many special intros or character interactions like in TTT2.
@@TheRadioSquare the final battle in T7 alone was more hype to play than anything from NRS.
You can even see it now. The cinematics and gameplay are far more interesting in T8 compared to MK1.
A lot of it boils down to visual flair, music, slowmo, etc. but it’s much more engaging than “ this character’s chapter, mix in some forced fights to pad out the time so every character gets the same amount of fights, same style of intro’s and outros, and then boring cutscenes in between.
@@JoeGodHand It is more hype than NRS, but tbf I also just care about Heihachi and Kazuya a lot more than I care about anyone in MK. Where it falters IMO is that they just don't do anything interesting with AI, so this epic conclusive battle between two arch enemies ends up being fairly easy even on 10 star difficulty. If they actually gave AI enemies some totally unique moves and strategies, that could've made them feel like proper boss battles.
that's subjective tho
it comes with the bias of thinking tekken's gameplay is better than mks, which not all would agree with as they may prefer to "2d" fighting of mortal kombat
@@TheRadioSquare I already mentioned before that there are exclusive moves and string that characters will use in story mode. When it comes to AI, it’s still better than standard AI in arcade mode. For veteran players it’s not going to be too bad most of the time. Even I get a decent challenge fighting shin akuma in T7 because it really forces you to not mess up.
To say T7 or T8 didn’t do anything different with the moves and AI in story mode is a flat out lie.
The "big problem" with fighting games is simply the "big problem" with a lot of 1v1 PvP games in general, especially in the West where a lot of the cultures are less communal in mind compared to Asia. They're niche because they're designed around 1v1s, which for better or worse, is kind of the point. How do you design a mode to be accessible and easy to pick up for the general gaming population without going against the core design of the game itself? PvE games are inherently designed to be beaten. They are like puzzle sets that have definite ends. Elements within PvE games, from gameplay, to even visual design, are designed with that in mind, tools to help players solve puzzles. PvP games are designed to be played over and over instead of beaten outright. They're straight up Chess when we get down to it. And you don't 'beat' Chess. There's nothing to 'beat' to begin with within the game itself.
It's one of the primary reasons CPUs in fighting games have always been so hard to nail. Enemy NPCs in PvE games are usually designed with clear weaknesses, which makes them puzzles for players to figure out how to beat. Characters in fighting games are designed to be used, not beaten. They are balanced around the fact that they would be usable in the hands of an actual player, but it's hard to determine the acceptable level for them to work as CPUs. A competent enough AI would destroy most gamers. An advanced AI just reacts to your inputs and makes things annoying even for competent players. Meanwhile, an easy to beat AI on the level of most PvE games' enemy NPCs are simply not stimulating for either sides of the coin as they're just glorified punching bags.
For single player in fighting games to be good enough for the general gamer population to enjoy, the developers have to essentially design two different games in one package. Which is essentially what Street Fighter 6 did. It's not amazing, but it's a step. Taking elements from Yakuza/Like a Dragon and Final Fight as inspirations was a good call, but execution was still lacking in places. At the same time, the fact that most enemy AIs, behaviors, and animations are exclusive to World Tour speaks loudly that they clearly went above and beyond. I think people undermine the fact that the devs had to design an entirely separate game different from the core PvP part of the game (and how that is also different than their usual portfolio and expertise, which probably explains why it's not that great) and how that is extremely taxing on workload. SF6 may have raised the bar, but I don't think any other dev teams are remotely thrilled in trying to meet that bar in terms of work output. It'd be nice if for Street Fighter 7 or any future entries, the core dev team can focus on the core PvP and overall gameplay, while the single player elements like World Tour and its world and story be outsourced to RGG Studio who have experience in building worlds like SF6's World Tour, essentially collaborating with SEGA. It probably won't happen as that'd be a logistical nightmare (plus, SEGA's a competitor in the market).
PvE is extremely superior to PvP in every way. PvE actually takes skill while PvP is "who had the most expensive ISP" pay to win junk.
@@cartoonvideos5So memorizing an NPC's behavior and exploiting it takes more skill than adapting to another person 1v1 on equal terms? Right. Let me know when PVE esports becomes a thing.
@kennard3106 Man that would be boring, but I think there was a PvE contest for some Xbox game a long time ago. PvP is more entertaining to watch.
@@kennard3106 how does one having an esport even relate to one taking more skill?
sf6 world tour was one of the worst single player experience i have ever had,
its such a bad pseudo open world thats super boring,
bad rpg,
non existent story (literaly, there is nothing)
hyper bad "main" character that has 0 personality he cant even talk for fuck sake
its trying to do too much, exceling in none
Eventually, fighting games can get stale and boring due to the repetitive nature. On the other hand there are at least some exciting content to keep players entertained when necessary.
Epi-TOME?😶
Yeah, I heard that too. Lol can't pronounce 'em all, I guess.
e-pit-o-mee
This may be a hot take but I've always found it odd and a bit unfair how people demand robust single player modes in fighting games when the opposite rarely happens for single player games. Fighting games at their core are designed to be played pvp and are focused on mindgames which can only really be played against other actual humans. Thus the characters and their movesets are designed in such a way that usually doesn't work well with AI. So this usually causes the need to pretty much design an entirely separate game on the side for single player content which is a lot of work and is highly unlikely to be as fun or polished as a dedicated single player game. It's like say expecting something like Zelda Tears of the Kingdom to have a Smash Bros-like multiplayer mode to play on the side, essentially wanting different styles of games in a single package which would just be better off as their own thing. At the end of the day if I want play single player I'll just play games dedicated to that. As for fighting games, the mindgames and constant back and forth between players is what gives them near endless replay value and with most of them now actually having good netcode it's easier than ever to get into the meat of what these games are really designed for imo.
They don't have to design an entirely new game, they just need to design a complete game. A lot of the games that are MP only are only big because they have a lot going on, the rest typically offer something more worthwhile.
Titanfall 1 failed, so they made Titanfall 2 with one of the best FPS campaigns out there. Battlefield used to be a niche series until BF3 made it truly mainstream with new mechanics but also single player campaign that they added in every future title except for 2042. CoD is not known for the greatest campaigns, but they still have flashes of great design like Cold War and Infinite Warfare, and hell, they still do both MP and SP. Same goes for Halo, they always come with pretty high effort MP and SP.
Now look at RTS games. StarCraft 2 and WarCraft 3 had massive campaigns, WC3 is still one of the greatest out there. They didn't design a whole new game, but they used what they had in a smart way and expanded it.
There's a lot out there, but the point is just that fighting games need to either offer something new and fleshed out, or take what they already have and use it well. Tekken Force did it, Granblue almost did it but lacked depth and variety, what's stopping everyone else for putting more effort? If Them's Fightin' Herds managed to do something cool with 0 money, big publishers have no excuse.
PvP is trash. Casuals are the majority market.
If you're gonna do single player mode, it should be satisfactory. It isn't unfair to demand that when they charge money for a game.
I think this video was spot on. I was really hoping that MK1 was gonna go back to the OG Konquest mode, but no...we got invasions. World Tour was cool for what it was, but yeah, the story was just dumb, inconclusive (other than bosch), and overall could have been more fleshed out. That being said, in this modern era, I think SF6 is the best Fighting Game package we've had in a long time.
Specifically about the MK franchise, MK9 knocked it out of the park with its ground breaking story mode, but since then, NRS hasn't really even tried to update the formula. Injustice, MKX, Injustice 2, MK11...MK1 is the sixth game to just use the long movie format, and really each time the luster just wears off faster. They really should have taken a good portion of the time and money they used to make the story mode, to make a deep single player game that people would wanted to play continuously, not just play once and be done with. And I hope they got the message clear as day that Invasions is not it.
Blazblue
I play fighting games for great characters, great and balanced fighting system! The only things I ask is a good vs mode, arcade mode and if we have a great story mode like in MK, that's a big bonus! I don't ask for stupid modes that I won't play. It's a fighting game we are talking about! People should stop to ask for more and more!
Ok the tekken bowling incident people were actually happy that that was back so I don’t know what you were talking about. Good time. To be alive to.😂
Yeah, no. TForce and WT are absolute garbage. If you're gonna do a story mode, the most efficient way to do it is the NRS way.
I wish tekken 8's story mode would be like t6's scenario campaign
I only ever see this complaint against multiplayer focused games and never single player ones. I would never buy a Zelda game expecting a fleshed out pvp experience. I think it’s kind of a weird ask to buy a game designed around competitive multiplayer and then complain about lackluster story modes. Yakuza is cool and all, but where are the complaints about it lacking ranked pvp?
Developers and publishers want fighting games to sell more and they won't do that if they're online geared to online tryhards and competition. Single player content is important for casuals like me.
@@cartoonvideos5the genre itself is competitive devs can put in any halfbaked story mode they want to bring in the fodder once you buy the game a casuals job is done because all the hardwork was put into pvp😂 casuals get pimped
@nasirbarbee5940 Haha good thing I only buy fighting games for $20 on sale. Tryhards get gimped, maybe its time for you to stop sitting around playing games and to get a job.
@@cartoonvideos5 🤷ok you buy games on sale kudos to you it's no problem for me if you buy fighting games for the lackluster single player keep buying so they can support the servers and make multiplayer better for us tryhards 😀 it's a win for us anyway (p.s I'm blue collar worker I could probably buy your mother🥰)
@@nasirbarbee5940 Yea the bottom of the barrel blue collar work where you get paid legal minimum wage, keep dreaming normie. By the time I do buy the games, they have been abandoned. You're just throwing out random stuff now and lost, normies always stay losing. You also can't type properly.
This is a weird take. This is something only a person who doesn’t play or understand fighting games would think of. Do they want a fighting game to become an adventure game or single player game like uncharted? It’s a fighting game.
Was just about to say this. The extra modes are a plus, but at its core a FIGHTING game needs to get the fighting down right before anything else
Well the thing is every gamer starts solo before they get to games with friends and etc
But fundamentally fighting games don’t do the best solo because sometimes it’s not appealing to learn without a friend … without a consistent reference point or some way to keep the solo player engaged it’s not gonna be fun
No fun = no play
No play = dropped game / wasted money
The comments are atrocious just play a single player game
@@nasirbarbee5940 fighting games can be single player games
Complaining about multiplayer games having no SP content is stupid. I'd rather have 40-50 characters at launch and no SP content than 20-30 and some throwaway superficial modes I'm going to launch once and never touch again. Because SF6 wasted so much time and money on world tour (which is extremely barren and boring) it has the smallest launch roster of all modern fighting games.
OK you’re takes on tekken are not even valid at this point they are just horrible😂
Mortal Kombat became a woke effemine soyboy game, Tekken became a tistic weeb game and S F became a creepy s mp game hahah :D
We need some realistic fighting games based on martial arts and real brawling. and having real badass fighters, not woke designs or cartoon dolls
My man needs to play Virtua Fighter or some crap like that.
Nah Virtua Fighter is just lesser Tekken. and if your gonna suggest KOF or DOA now, KOF is just lesser Street Fighter and DOA is just another weeb game with dolls. so no thanks hahah :D
@@LuanJaguarREAL then which game works for you? Or do you even like fighting games? Cuz if you don't then why are you here?
Those are called sports games and already exist. Play Fight Night or UFC.
biggest problems with each :
Mortal Kombat : the game is woke, defeminized fem chars, weak soft male chars. and forced representation. also they dont even care about lore anymore. char designs and game modes are also awful
Tekken : the game has been a joke, the last game was like a demo for E3 only, no game modes. also most iconic characters were abused for japanese humor and taken away their reputation (paul, king, law, eddy etc)
Street Fighter : it literally became a s mp game for boys that are obsessed with Juri's feet. and lots of hideous new characters in the last game, which are product of degeneracy
MK1 : ruined because of Woke Agenda and Karens
Tekken : ruined because of Japanese Humor and Weeb fanboyism
SF : ruined because of s|mps idolizing Juri's feet
hahah :D
bruh