Hi guys! Wanted to sneak in another video before the DLC drops! Only pertains to the base game so watch without worry. Curious to know what you guys think! Edit: People are commenting mad about spoilers...bros it's the opening cinematic. I didn't think it needed spoiler warnings 😅
I'm not quite sure why this is the case, and I can't substantiate it with anything in the game, but I have always felt like we as the tarnish of no renowned have a lot in common with Miquela.
My theory with the eclipse is that, like in reality, the sun is revered in Elden Ring, similar to the Erdtree because of its "life-giving" properties. (We literally need it to exist) There is tons of sun symbology throughout the game. What if, during an eclipse, when the sun is blocked, it somehow creates a way for souls to pass between Life and Death. In Castle Sol, that ghost at the very end talks about how they failed to swallow the sun and bring back Miquellas comrade because their prayers were lacking. What if this is because of two reasons, the first being that an eclipse is a Celestial event, there isn't a way to force it to happen but maybe they could with prayer. The concept of the moon in the game is varied, maybe they can pray to it like an Outer God. Also second reason is that maybe they failed because the comrade, who I am assuming was Godwyn, and whom only died in soul and not body because of Ranni, couldn't be reborn because of that. Since his body never died, his soul has nowhere to be reborn. Sorry for the long post, 😅 but that's my theory
Illegitimate means out of wedlock, which means it could be pre or post consort Godrey, or pre consort radagon. Doesn't rule out Godwyn, also presuming the parentage of any of her kids is truthful. This is the GRR Martin part.
I though for sure you’d mention that Sir Gideon Ofnir, the All-Knowing says “A man cannot kill a god”. We might’ve thought we were proving him wrong but if this is correct then his theory still tracks.
Imagining the random soldier being both confused and Horrified at that is making me giggle. DEMIGOD SLAIN RS"W-what? I-I did WHAT?? Oh god no." Sees the tarnished he just killed riding back on a Horse. "OH GOD NO!"
Can we all agree that whatever our tarnished is, they are the most terrifying thing in the lands between. Imagine the demigods and you see this functionally immortal creature who's only purpose is to kill you, and they will, because you can never permanently destroy them. The tarnished is like a fantasy terminator.
Personally the most terrifying thing to me is the greater will. a Being that doesnt care how it goes aslong as it doesnt go against it. A being that no one can comprehend. For reffrence we can litterally comprehend a half shattered dude/girl with a glowing ring of order inside it that has two personalities that also made a magical phantom tree that u can see acress the entirety of the lands between. But we cant comprehend the greater will💀 whos motivations, form and origins will never be known. Yet he can controll every single one of us and irradicate us and every other being without even thinking of it💀
The fact that Melina and Ranni both take note of you at the beginning of the game and give you things (Torrent, spirit summons) also suggests that your Tarnished is a pre-existing character and not just some random guy.
Well it was Torrent who “choice”(found) us, while Melina was like “are you sure this is the right guy, torrent?” Ranni takes notice because she heard you were riding on the spectral steed and she knows Torrent and the former owner, most likely Miquella. It could suggest that our tarnished is special because Torrent sensed something in us but I don’t think we are meant to be someone of significance in the story.
The spirit summons, the bell and Torrent all belonged to someone else before us. Most likely that 'someone' is us since fromsoft has that sort of recurring theme. And if thats us it would mean that we were somewhat special during that time aswell.
This makes let me solo her funnier lore wise, imagine your naked illegitimate brother whose suposed to be dead just laying hands on you every single time 😭
Holy shit this makes so much sense. Marika states that her children that do not amount to anything would be cast aside. If we're a Tarnished of NO renown it would follow that we were punished for not making something of ourselves if we were in fact a Demigod. "But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..."
When we're talking about realizing one's life ambitions like this, I think true "failure" can ultimately only come at the point of death-so long as you're still alive & kicking, you still have a shot at making your indelible mark on the world And once you're dead, you're officially labeled a failure & entombed in a walking mausoleum as a sacrifice-you never did anything noteworthy, so now your only purpose at that point is to wait for somebody more powerful to come along, claim your essence & use it to synthesize a duplicate of some other entity who became powerful & influential enough to be forever remembered throughout history by having its image & story hewn into the Erdtree as a Remembrance As a tarnished of no renown, it makes sense that this is the fate which originally befell our character Why the Grace of the Erdtree gives us a chance to cheat death & escape such a fate by choosing us specifically for resurrection is an entirely different question for which we may never have a definitive answer fake edit: unless of course the answer is just "this is a video game & we're the MC"
Or we are just aa nobody out of Godfreys presumably hundreds of tarnished. More likely that we are just " ´some dude" since Vyke could have become Lord and he aint no demigod
Actually I think it is a warning of Marika to their children. The “Greater Will” is a parasite in the Lands Between, and want nothing with someone that can’t achieve it’s desire. You can’t see it when the two finger says that the demigods were cast aside by the Greater Will, all of them, and want you the tarnished, to kill them and take their grace for yourself so you can use it as a champion to the Greater Will. Why? Simply because no one of them prevailed in the war. The closest winners were Radahn and Malenia, but they had a tie and were forsaken. Miquella was just too great to follow the Greater Will, as was Ranni. Both strayed away into their own objetives. We are just tools to be used… You can either be great, or you will be sacrificed and have you grace taken by someone better suited to carry the parasite will. And thats what marika realized, and rebelled against, breaking the elden ring. In the end, even her body was destroyed and used the carcass as a puppet. And when we beat that puppet, the Elden Beast use it to creste a sword! The Erdtree is the evil in the lands between, using life energy to it’s benefit, and that why we burn it
of no renown in this setting means of no family to claim, meaning pretty much b@st@rds the demigod kids were raised by her they didnt make themselves anything they quite literally were groomed for success to a level, even mohg and margrette, there was a speculation (like all elden ring lore videos are) that mesmerr was the 1st child, and that the father was that old man next to the blond lady in the dlc trailer. he being in the shadow realm could be that marika forsook him. or Marika was a treesh and had babies all over the place for contingency, which makes the most sense imo. she is a doomist planting seeds all over the place for whatever potential adversary she faces in the future. She is pretty much japanese fantasy fictions Batman, and we are all in the bat family. we are probably a demigod like they said but isnt everyone descended from one another, the warrior chick whose last name is laux is a descendent of the 1st elden lord, even Godrick is a descendent of him. it makes sense that the lady with a god complex might have actually planted the seeds for the mortals in her world to be related to her in some way or form. but again we all just speculating at the end of the da
I like that this makes Gideon "The All-Knowing" Ofnir less ludicrusly uninformed. He did know, in his bones, that a Tarnished could not become the Elder Lord. Our bones received no such memo.
Wasn't the whole point of Gideon's character that he was seeking knowledge, but massively exaggerated what he actually knew to manipulate other tarnished?
@@DarkKnight6six6 No, the books in his chamber and the dossier on all the relevant demigods and the canonical extensive network of secret agents and the fact that he derives iconic spells from bosses just by watching us fight them all indicate some real competence in the fact-finding arena. He's just intellect without courage. A man without a chest.
I want to point out that Vyke killed 2 Demi-gods, and so did Bernahl. We're not the only Tarnished who could have reached the end-game; Bernahl had the wrong Maiden and couldn't burn the Erdtree, and Vyke fell to the Frenzied Flame.
I always thought the sounds in the intro are the sounds of Marika/Radagon hammering on the Elden Ring. The stomps are the hammer blows, and the cries/bell sounds are the Elden Ring vibrating and cracking under the strain, perhaps also the Elden Beast trying to communicate with Marika/Radagon, or just roaring in pain.
I think this is a pretty viable theory as well and I honestly think this theory is more likely than our tarnished being born from a walking mausoleum. But still a cool theory either way. I love that this game is 2 years old and we are still finding new things.
I always thought it was pretty evident from the hero’s armor we’re a descendant of Godfrey/Hoara Lux and our gathering of runes was our journey to demigodhood
Look up any mythology and you would see that gods marry relatives all the time. And of course, Marika committed SUPER-Incest. Although it seems Marika's bodycount is expanding.
Ranni is born from that egg thing, so she is related to Radagon not Marika if even related to anyone at all. though they are said to be the same person, but that gives some leeway. she would have not come out of the same person at least. (Edited) Looking back I see I'm using an idea that was in a theory not main line lore, in the theory they try to explain why Ranni is an empyrean. as the leading idea for that is you need to be born of one god or gods, like how Melina and Miquella are. so the theory was that Ranni was born of the egg Radagon give her, as to be empyrean you must be born of a god or gods, and Rennala is not one.
@MHVideos777 incest seems to really reoccur here also spoilers below this for the dlc Incest like Miquella and revived fucking radahn who is basically a God, prime radahn.
4:50 as somebody obsessed with audio and sound design. The attention to detail of actually using those sounds to hint at an untold setting is really beautiful. At first I thought, they could just be combining random background game sounds. But you showed us!!🎉
Maybe we don't wake at a mausoleum because our body has to be united with our head and then be blessed by grace. So our murdered maiden at the start reunited them and then was killed?
@@guillaumesuchet9263Maybe in dlc but also it is important to consider the fact that we may not be able to since it could have been destroyed upon our resurrection.
The first enemy you encounter is a grafted scion, so maybe our maiden was looking for a way to graft our head back onto our body and got killed in the process? Maybe the reason we don't find an empty mausoleum at the start is because we died in a far off land away from home, which might also hint as to why our starting location was on the coastline - perhaps after being shipwrecked.
@@yusufamin7243 Godwin's death is obviously quite singular and we have no idea how the people in the mausoleums died ... but it was certainly a different death. Also, Renna (oops Ranni) is lying to us about a lot of elements at the beginning of the game
It's a fun theory and i can see it being a possibility, Marika was... not shy about sharing her bed, lets say lol hell, the Tarnished could theoretically pre-date Marika's rise to godhood all together or maybe they're a bastard born out of wed-lock if that 'illegitimate' line is literal in intent and the child was born of adultery or maybe to seal a pact with another group/faction, etc. I do love the Idea of one of Marika's kids not really amounting to much at all though and Marika just hating them for it Marika: "Why can't you be more like your brothers or your sisters?" Tarnished: "which ones? the brother who fed himself to a snake? the brother who went mad and turned into a cannibal because our sister poisoned him? The sister who poisoned him? The other sister who killed our other brother then killed herself because she joined a crazy moon cult or one of the two siblings you keep locked up in the sewers because the sight of them repulses you??" Marika: "...clean your mausoleum, it's filthy in here" *slams door*
Ive always thought the main character is a Tarnished being akin to purpose as the DoomSlayer in his universe. When things get so bad you have to unleash an avenger to set things right.
Keep in mind that godrick is a long distant offspring of godfrey. Ie, a demigod too since he's a descendent of marika. Our tarnished can simply be part of that family tree. Or we could be a long distant relative of chadahn.
I saw the video and continued my own run, at Leyndell, Royal capital an enemy can drop the Envoy's Horn. I read the description of the item and i thought that it might be inherent to this video. The description says:"Originally an instrument, but one that cannot be sounded by mere humans. Or perhaps it is too early to sound the call." The weapon art actually makes the horn make a sound, it means that maybe the tarnished is not just a human, but actually something more.
And the Envoy's play their tune when waiting for a new god to arrive, that God could be you, there also at the haligtree for either Melania or miuqula ( her brother)
@@Lego_Whis_the_wise the mental image of the envoys just being entierly quiet only for the tarnished of no renown to arrive and they just go ham is funny to me
I like this theory a lot. Its canon to me now. I love the idea rhat Marika cast off this child who she thought would amount to nothing. And this child just, changes the lands between forever out of spite.
When I saw the thumbnail, I was like “So we just making random theories about anything now”. But after watching the video, it’s actually pretty interesting and I want to believe it.
@@miceatah9359 I agree. There is literally no indication that we are a demigod. We are a descendant of a tarnished which were Godfrey’s warriors when they were banished from the Lands Between. We are 100% not a demigod. That would ruin how cool it would be that we are a nobody who rose to challenge the gods, and won.
@@Kazanko28 It would still be pretty cool because then we would have a better claim to the elden throne than anyone else, and we would be claiming OUR throne by right though the idea of conquest is slightly better and cooler
Miyazaki said a Tarnished is someone who died outside of the lands between and was resurrected by grace from the outer will to restore order. My fan theory is the PC is actually Godwyn. Several items talk about transferring souls. Moving them into a new body or puppet restores the life of the individual. The starting tomb does look like a walking mausoleum though.
I always felt like we are in the Erdtree at the begining. Specifically the Stone Platform you can warp to after defeating the Elden Beast. Look towards the opening. Similar to Marika in the DLC trailer.
This would make a certain sense realistically. There are a bunch of references to "all life coming from the Erdtree" throughout the entire game. Could be literal in the case of our character. Even Melina talks about how she was born at the foot of the Erdtree
but why? I don't think it makes any sense. Marika is inside the Erdtree and we probably come from outside TLB. No one seems to cover it because it doesn't concile with the rest of the game
@simonediblasi8950 well Marika is the one who calls us to TLB and like you said, she is inside the tree, imprisoned there for her crimes. Makes sense that this where our soul would first come to first, then we get reborn into a new body and sent off to become elden lord. That's how I think of it anyway.
@@aaronuhrlaub2081 but we don't get a new body, it's the same we had before (eg: a warrior descending from hoara loux, or an astrologer), and we appear at the church of anticipation. It wouldn't make any sense for our dead body to be inside the Erdtree before grace revives us and beckons us to TLB
A very interesting potential lore tidbit is how the often looked over info from the starting classes. The hero is a decedent of Hoarah Loux, the Astrologer is called an HEIR to the school of glintstone sorcery (a potential translation error or could be connected to Carian royalty), the warrior is likely of the same tribe as the blue dancer, etc...
Hero is not a descendant of Hoarah Loux, just an elite warrior of his army. In cut content, He Who Walks Alongside Flame was meant to be a child of Hoarah Loux however - and there still seem to be some leftovers that could imply it (I.E. "Well, thou art of passing skill. Warrior blood must truly run in thy veins... Tarnished.")
@@gunsevenwhillans420 Hoarah Loux's title is "chieftain of the badlands", and the hero is "descended from a badlands chieftain" according to the flavor text in the character creation, and since Hoarah Loux is the only one in game with this title, I think it's safe to assume that it is referring to him. One difference though, is that the japanese text is written as hearsay/speculation, it says that the hero is "considered to be a descendant", instead of stating it as a fact like the english version does.
@@gunsevenwhillans420 The hero starting classes description heavily suggests that he is, "A stalwart Hero, at home with a battleaxe, descended from a badlands chieftain..." the main point being that the hero is a dependent if a badlands chieftain. Horah Loux is the only recorded badlands chieftain not to mention the hero wears the exact same gear as Nepheli Loux. It the connection with battle axes and thematic connection would make sense calling a barbarian a "hero" its odd when there are other characters.
This tracks with how the Eclipse Crest Greatshield depicts the 'guardian star of soulless demigods' and buffs all of the Tarnished's status resistances.
Even during my first playthrough I wondered if the main Tarnished would be revealed in a twist ending as Marika's bastard child because remember, the backstory of Elden ring was written by George RR Martin, who LOVES putting arcs of insest and bastards finding out who their real parents are in his work.
remember that line offnir utters on defeat? "i knew it in my bones... no *man* can kill a God..." the line makes so much more sense now, he comes to the realization of what you are and the irony of missing this one demi god just makes him so much more of a fool.
I have not yet seen the video but I'm already going to comment what me and some guy on Reddit found out two years ago. At least one of the classes you can pick, Hero, is related to Horoah Loux (and thus Nepheli) by blood. Horoah Loux is introduced as 'Horoah Loux, chieftain of the badlands' before the game starts. The description of the Hero class (which is basically default Nepheli) states that they were descendants of a badlands chieftain. Now I'm going to watch the video and see what the Nihonjin came up with ✌🏻 Edit: Funny how context can change an entire translation. Now get ready for the 'prepare to read' edition of my comment which you're probably not even gonna see. I was actually really feeling that theory, but I'm 100% certain that this is not the case, as you are tarnished. Tarnished are people who died outside of the Lands Between, but were resurrected by grace. (Source: Miyazaki) Although, apparently Godfrey became tarnished as well right after losing his grace, so who knows. But that's how Miyazaki described tarnished with regards to the player. But that would mean that there is no possible way for the protagonist to resurrect in a Mausoleum, as they weren't in the land where the mausoleums are present. Loux's scars of him being impaled in the intro are also still seen on his body during his boss fight, which means damage done to the body persists after reawakening. As all demi-gods in the mausoleums are headless, that would've been pretty awkward. Here's my theory: What you hear is in fact the mausoleum, but not because it's where your corpse lies in, but because it's being used as transportation. As you can see in the intro cutscene, the narration isn't just a story being told to the player, but a monologue from an actual in-game character as he's shown in the cutscene telling the story. I believe this unknown person hails from the Lands Between and has the task (for whatever reason) of bringing the tarnished back to the Lands Between. Mausoleums are the perfect choice to cross the sea, as they can just walk on the seabed with the inside sealed off from the water outside and any other sort of dangers, giving enough time for the tarnished to eventually rise once more. He actually witnessed the tarnished coming back to life. As to why the mausoleums would do that; these things are in constant mourning. I don't think they're too fond of Marika, so a tarnished becoming elden lord would probably sounds pretty good to them. I think there's quite some time passed between the first cutscene and the gameplay. No proof, just a hunch. I always thought we actually had a maiden, but that she was killed in the chapel of anticipation, after which the game actually starts. I still can't shake off the feeling that she had been killed by maiden-blood hungry Varré, who carried the tarnished to the stranded graveyard after they were defeated by the grafted scion. How else could he know we were maidenless right away? I mean come on, she could've still been asleep or something, maybe going number two, anything at all. Miyazaki presents stories like his childhood. He was born in poverty, and the only books he could read contained words he didn't understand, so he filled in the blanks with his imagination. That's how he handles storytelling in his game as well. As long something is not presented as fact, all fan theories are always correct if you look at it like that.
There’s one issue with the key stone of your point, being a descendant of Godfrey does not indicate that we are not illegitimate, it’s not even exactly clear how people are born in the lands between, we don’t know in what way we are descendant of Godfrey and he definitely doesn’t treat us as family when we meet him. We still could’ve been a demigod and there’s a myriad of reasons we were exiled or killed. And the headlessnesss of the body in the mausoleum may just be a depiction anonymity of the player character.
When Miyazaki says that Tarnished are those who "died outside The Lands Between" I think it could just as easily be refering to those who died outside of The Lands Betweens natural cycle of death and rebirth. Most creatures return to the Erdtree when they die and are reborn after some time. There is at least one way of circumventing this natural cycle of death and rebirth: Destined Death. Perhaps those felled by Destined Death (like those in the Night of the Black Knives) are forced out of TLB, similarly to how Godfrey "departed". We know that the Souless Demigods bodies (who died in the Night of the Black Knives) are resting in the Walking Mausoleums, of which there are 7. However 2 of those Walking Mausoleums are "fake" as they specifically cannot duplicate the Rememberance of any of the Demigods. So we have 5 Mausoleums that I believe correspond to the 5 named Tarnished in the opening cinematic. Hoarah Loux, Goldmask, Fia, Dung Eater, and Sir Gideon Ofnir the All-Knowing. The locations of the Mausoleums is something that has always puzzled me, and feels like there must be some reason as to why there are where they are, and interestingly there may be a connect with each Mausoleum location and their respective Tarnished. Fia's Mausoleum is right next to where wants to end up in game, in the Deeproot Depths with Godwyns body. Goldmask's Mausoleum is the one outside of Castle Sol, he wears a Goldmask like the Sun. Gideon's is outside Apostate Derelict, where the Albinauric's Journey ends. Hoarah Loux's is in the Weeping Peninsula, he notablely had a campaign there at Castle Morne, but I think the real idea is of him Weeping/Mourning his slain son, Godwyn This leaves Dung Eater's being the Mausoleum in Liurnia... which frankly I have no idea what that Mausoleum could even correspond to. The closest thing is that it is roughly above the Dragonkin Soldier of Nokstella's arena, and the Dead Giant that rests there. I have 0 clue. Also I think Godwyn being resurrected as Vyke makes so much sense with the Tarnished = Demigod theory. There is the clear duality between the 2 with them both being the only known people to befriend dragons. Plus Vyke is said to be one of the 1st Tarnished, which would make sense if it was Godwyn. Crackpot theory ik.
Youre actually right about Varre, it was proven already through in game hints that he killed our maiden lol. There's a video of it somewhere showing how she might have looked like
@@footballfanboy9680 they didn't "have" destined death, they served it/him. Maliketh has the Rune of death and the only other known piece was the blades used to kill Ranni and Godwyn.
"Not even you" implies that either 1, he is dead wrong and you are strong enough to do so, or 2, he is right, and you are no mere man, regardless of your strength.
Another clue to this is Gideon's Dialog, which I always thought was strange... That he knows in his heart that a tarnished could not become Elden lord. I have always assumed that the headless demigods were in reference to headless vampire burials. They would cut off their heads to prevent them from rising and haunting them. Which kind of makes sense that considering rebirth is such a common theme in elden ring.
In as much as this might make sense, the second half of the dialogue states “a tarnished cannot become a lord , NOT EVEN YOU. A man Cannot Kill a god. The “not even you” is not so clear . Perhaps we can hear the Japanese version
@tomisinolapo2317 I mean, it's fairly easily explained by him thinking we are also just a tarnished. The "not even you" basically meaning that despite our great accomplishment so far, we're still just a tarnished
heres the thing about that....your tarnished like all the other important npcs that they show in the opening cutscene are regaining their grace and coming back to life where they last died after having lost their grace the first time marika renounced them, fia with a dead king in a crypt, godfrey pined to a tree in some wasteland, giddion in a tomb surrounded by his servant spies etc, and your tarnished is on the floor of the arena where you fight Radagon inside the erdtree at the end of the game. your tarnished for whatever reason is revived at the beginning of the game inside the erdtree at the feet of marika and then transported to the room near stormveil castle.
You are spot on. The bass sound is from the initial cinematic trailer, its not stomps but the shattering and reforging of the elden ring. The beginning always reminded me of "things betwixt" from Dark Souls 2.
@tetrahedron9196 basically but more pointent, basically it kinda feels like we are the greater wills child? Idk, basically, it feels like the greater will only chose us as the last one cause of how uncontrollable we are or something
What also speaks for that theory is Melina and torrent why would they approach a random tarnished and set all hope in him, Melina said that "she doubt us at first but torrent never did", i think before Marika cast us aside or killed us, Torrent was our steed and was killed too, thats why he is a spirit the time we met. And maybe Torrent was the one who drew attention to us that we would be the one to Melina because horses are extremely loyal creatures just look up what warhorses did to protect their knight in the medieval age, so she initiated our rewive because the moment we were rewiveed she was right there and Torrent instantly sniffed us out. The other thing is Ranni, she gave Torrent to Melina its like they planned everything together to bring the age of stars, because why would Ranni approach a random tarnished and give him the bell for spirit summoning, perhaps ranni knew us when we were alive after all we are her stepbro, this is why she snatched Torrent as a spirit. She even thanked Torrent and i think she thanked him for telling her about us or pressing her to put faith in us. summary Torrent is a fucking chad, loyal even in death The third thing is Gideon Ofnir the all knowing, when we kill him he said something like: "he knows no tarnished can become elden lord", but we are no ordenary tarnished thats why we can become elden lord, and no one likes him but ussaly he is right in what he says.
Also explains why we ride so well, even from extremely lowly backgrounds, where not only can we stay steady on a full gallop and jump, but even shoot from horseback, a famously difficult skill. It's hard to say for sure, but in medieval times horses were quite rare, and only those of some wealth would be able to afford one typically. The thing about Torrent is that... he has horns... which is probably why he killed as those with horns are... not appreciated. It could be why we have him as well, as we are unwanted so bonded with Torrent who was also unwanted, before we were both put to death.
This actually makes a lot of sense. And also brings us back to ancient Greek myths about heroes (i.e. demigods) hidden from everyone in some secluded spots who eventually go into world and change everything. Like Paris or Achilles from Trojan war.
Paris is not even a hero for gigolos. Unbearable character, plunging several states into war through his juvenile libido. Thats not even an anti-here, that is just a fool. The Godrick of greek mythology.
Could they be children of Marika from before she became a God? If so, it would make sense for them to be illegitimate since they weren't born from the coupling of an Elden Lord and a God, but instead from some random guy and a future God.
If the demigods in the mausoleums are Illegitimate child's of merica. Then I propose the father for each child is based off of the character classes to choose from. The warrior is from a nomadic tribe who the blind swordsman was apart of. The blind swordsman was said to be strong enough to seal the god of rot away.
It would be very interesting if he was one of our possible fathers, it would explain why Marika would keep him around to the point of making him Malenia's master maybe if we choose Hero that would make Godfrey our father, but only from a time when he was still hoarah loux and not married to Marika making us an illegitimate child
It is a legend. Game even states so with the flowing blade. They most likely vanquished mushroom lords and redirected the river to wash away stagnation of Rot God. However, essense is so strong that even while diluted by holy river, it is still most potent source of Rot damage, even surpassing Malenia's.
The narrator in the opening scene names some of the other surviving demigods and transitions to us, a tarnished of no renown. That to me was a hint that we're somewhat related to them in terms of power.
@@someguy9164not quite right as it states in in-game text that the first demigods were Godfrey and his descendants, the golden lineage Edit: item description I'm talking about is godrick's great rune
It's funny that, as far as I can tell, she is actually just a canonical hoe lol. Makes sense, given that she's queen of everything and all that, but still, damn.
This one might not by her choice,look up what some American slave owners do when the import of new slave got cut off, considering the importance Marika's people as ingredients for Jarring ritual it won't be surprising if the horn sent "copy the homework" this would tie in with "unsightly/shameful illegitimate child"
It's a cool theory but doesn't really add up. The Tarnished are Godfrey, his warriors and their descendants, they lost their grace when Marika cast them out as learned from Melina in one of the churches of Marika. Also every single starting class (except the astrologer) is explicitly from somewhere outside the Lands Between, and the Tarnished being a Demigod undercuts the main theme of every single FromSoft game, namely that you are just the latest of a long, long line of people to have tried this, and that you just happened to be the one to do it, your success built on the corpses of those who came before you (remember where you get all of your items from?) The Tarnished were returned their Grace as a last resort to fix the Elden Ring, their revival was plan Z. And besides if you were revived in a walking mausoleum, why do you start in an offshore island surrounded by cliffs?
I agree. This whole "possible interpretation" is based on merely two information. It feels like they wanted to believe something and stitched it together to make sense. I personally don't like this way of reasoning.
They tell you why you don't revive in a mausoleum in the theory and it's not like revival is instant usually in any game with respawn that isn't cod takes awhile in-between dying and respawning
I believe that the Tarnished are all those from outside of the lands between. It makes sense how they were all guided by grace to the Lands Between to become Lord. The low-key racism makes sense as well since they're foreigners, and it makes sense that each and every one of the starting classes are Tarnished, even though they all come from different areas. If only Godfrey and his warriors were tarnished, then if you picked anything other than the barbarian starting class, you would not be Tarnished.
It's possible Godfrey wasn't the first demigod who was banished from the land between, considering its long history. There could be other Ancient/unknown demi-gods who was in service of Marika before she banished them. One of them could be Marika's child before she's married to Godfrey. That's why all of them are capable of defeating demi gods and use the great runes.
I think several characters remark on how people seem to want to trust us intrinsically, unless we give them a reason not to. Could just be a joke about the way things usually go in these kind of RPGs, or something more. Miquella connections, perhaps?
@@davisiotta489 then again gideon is also able to wield a wide variety of sorceries and incantations depending on who we defeat ranging from bloodflame incantations from Mohg and the formless mother, black flame incantations from the godskins and Gloam Eyed Queen, scarlet aeonia from Malenia and the goddess of rot etc as well as golden order incantations
This theory really spoke to me, and it fits too damn well with why our tarnished, besides all else, is blessed by gold. I'd like to add one possible piece to this puzzle - The fact that the tarnished emotes "O Mother" to Marika's statue and that it opens the way to the Shaman Village is quite telling.
Also would like to note that we are always shown to be important from the very beginning. Where we spawn at there was an entire bridge built so someone would be able to reach us as well as a portal to access the area by the bells. Not only that but if you pay attention to the opening dialogue the narrator tells “us” to become the Elden Lord as opposed to everyone else. All of the other NPCs go around and do their own thing for a while before we came along. “A tarnished of no renown” also doesn’t mean that we didn’t have renown before just means that we currently have none. We could have been an important figure in the past but were stripped of glory or enough time passed to where we were forgotten. Also if we weren’t important at all you would think that just calling us a tarnished would be enough.
I feel like we are the greater wills last resort, a sorta nuclear option when all else fails, the greater will pretty much trys to get anyone else to become elden lord and well it all fails,
The illegitimate child.. you were one of them..born a tarnished ( like morgot) (minus the crucible aspects). Grace was taken from the tarnished in days of old. Then the erd tree granted us grace once again.
"Illegitimate" completely changes the tone. I wonder what the implications of the beheaded corpse are; swift and painless execution, or meant to dishonor the spirit upon revival? Really well-done video!!
Often a being cannot revive if beheaded unless they are reunited if being could revive when beheaded wouldn't the head and body revive separately when the body registers death damage creating two of you? Which would be the real you? Typically to revive a being the head and body have to be reunited before revival can begin. The church you wake up in could very well of been where your head was stored. While taking the head to the body would be easier the mausoleum are all in the wide open and reviving a failed demigod would draw way to much attention. Stealing the body while harder taking it to the head stored on an island isolated away from prying eyes would make chances of the revival being interrupted lower than conducting it in the open.
This makes me really think: how many times did Marika attempt to birth an Empyrean strong enough to eliminate the hold of the greater will? And eventually out of frustration, would smash the Elden Ring as a hasty method to bring chaos to that control in some way.
Walking Mausoleums only house the headless demigods. Chapel of ANTICIPATION, as in, awaiting for something to happen, is where the Demigods get resurrected at, either being brought there from their mausoleums, or, the Chapel itself being a prototype version of such a mausoleum, seeing it may have been sooo much more magnificent in the past, being ruined either during the Shattering or... by someone who actually knew the place's actual purpose and wanted it to cease function.
How can you claim that thee chapel of anticipation is a place of resurrection if we could have been simply been teleported/summoned there by an incantation? What you tipped is pure speculation at best
This theory changes everything. Also Enia dialogue where she talks about taking the shards from the other demigods and having their heads. The last part of this dialogue says “you are here to take, are you not”? which resonates with Melinas speech where Marika spoke to her demigod children
This makes too much sense and makes the elden ring jigsaw feel complete. Also, this would be such a George R.R Martin thing to do. Bastard child returns, kills the queen and marries his sister.
Doesn’t the opening game scene portray all the tarnished from there graves a literally say they crossed the fog back into the lands between? Which then makes all the in game messaging people running around make sense we’re just all part of the tarnished hordes.
Well, at the beginning of the game, the chapel in which you awaken is festooned with the images of a beast-a symbol representing descent from the "golden" nobles. There are gravestones and coffins piled in pretty much every corner of this game, but you wake up in this special place. Seems to suggest you're more than an ordinary Tarnished, as does the attention from other actors in the story who killed your maiden.
(MAYBE SPOIL AHEAD) idk if this is nonsense but in the DLC we can make this "O mother" emote infront of a MArika statue to this secret area. Maybe this is also a hint?
I'd think it would suggest otherwise. From my opinion, it would seem people of Marika's village/belief would see her as a mother cuz she is the leader of her people become god, so a motherlike deity. The potentate village implied the theory that Marika's village were used as sacrifice for pot people (O mother opening up the secret path to said village) to create a pot deity. The emote being their signifying their prayers to their mother deity, Marika, in hopes of her coming to save them. Implying that would mean anyone under her regilious umbrella would be considered her 'child'. So, my assumptions were that the mausoleums were nobility (aka people like Godrick) who aren't complete direct descendant but watered down ancestry and maybe even to the point where they lost any connection to godhood due to thinning bloodline. (I also think we aren't demigods but crucible warriors under Godfrey/Hoarah Loux which is why we can use crucible stuff, kill demigods, and assume rights as we were warriors of grace but it was taken from us and we got banished with Godfrey, hell we could just be a descendant of Godfrey himself AFTER he got banished... he still was a demigod himself)
o mother could be hinting that marika is our (the tarnisheds) mother, or it could be that the corpse that we get it from died while kneeling ifront of their mother and then their final words where just that "o mother" but then again being the demigod child of marika who then became the lord of frenzied flame is also cool so idk
I can’t help but feel that the ghost npc near the mausoleum was actually hinting at Messmer, him being the oldest and possibly the reason for other illegitimate children being beheaded and guarded. Also it’s funny how miquella just wanted to cure himself and his sister and give his brother a true death but figured out something he shouldn’t have and found himself in a entire rabbit hole of lies, deception, scandals and a bloody coverup. I’d want nothing to do with my fate either.
So... After we defeat Messmer with the help of Hornsent, he says he's gonna hunt down the rest of Marika's offspring, and then later he invades us... Does this confirm this theory?? Unless he just becomes batshit insane like Edgar or something...
@@Myncu Sorry, but no. Too late. It's already been a week since I posted this comment, I'm sure a lotta people already reached that point in the game anyway, if my comment spoils anyone's fun I apologize, but I'm not gonna edit it anymore.
@Northern14 Honestly, you didn't mention anything that spoils anyway. This video is interesting, but I think it's more likely that Messmer is the offspring being referenced.
I'm tempted to believe this theory if there wouldn't be some character class descriptions that defy that idea - some of our classes are descendants of the original first tarnished that were exiled alongside Godfrey. So the Tarnished that we see ingame are a future generation, which at this point, has no ties with anything that could have spawned from Marika at this time. The Tarnished are not THE Tarnished that first left the Lands Between. Our Tarnished is a successor and we don't know how many generations have passed ever since then and it is quite unlikely that Godfrey or Marika would have had any offsprings among them to reproduce futher. Vyke is another constant in the formula that defies the Demigod idea - Vyke could have become Elden Lord and he is no demigod at all. He's just like us - a pillaging Tarnished.
thats silly. Tarnished are immortal, there is no reason you are from a later generation, or that there *are* later generations of tarnished. Nothing indicates marika continued to make more tarnished, nor that the children of tarnished would be tarnished themselves.
@@DellikkilleD as far as i can tell most of the original tarnished were just, people who in some way worked under godfrey and previously did have grace. so even if there are more generations of tarnished, which i agree seems off, a very very wide variety of people could have qualified to become them, and it's honestly hard to come up with literally any explanation for the mausoleums even existing other than as a way to hit pause on certain people's resurrection cycles and/or hide them temporarily with that as an excuse. i legitimately cannot think of a single other thing in the whole game that even hints at why illegitimate demigods were going into the giant stone turtle instead being buried under space trees
@@DellikkilleDTarnished are not immortal. Without grace they don't have the immortality granted by the Erdtree. Miyazaki himself has stated before the games release that the tarnished was a descendant of Godfrey so while this theory is neat, it doesn't really work
Godrick is the weakest demigod we fight, and the All-Knowing guy says that was a watered-down relation. So, it would make sense we could be a very weak/ young demi-god or distant relation to Marika and as we convert runes to strength, get gear, and find spells/ashes of way we are awakening some of our power.
Godrick was never born weaker than the other demigods, he simply didn't have the force of will to get stronger and use the maximum potential of his demigod blood, we are probably of even more diluted blood and yet by sheer force of will we are capable of surpassing all other demigods
all the other demigods were not born more powerful, they simply had the determination to become stronger and that is what they became, people believe that Godrick was weaker due to lack of divine blood but in reality what he lacked was determination
@@pancakke08 I'm not saying he isn't, I'm saying people in the lands between think that's the reason when in reality he just doesn't really have the determination to get stronger
@@davisiotta489 Malenia was born powerful because God of rot so she got master who allowed her to control it, Morgott and Mogh got blessings from before Golden Order and only achieved things during shattering, Ranni was already into being chosen Emperyan, Rykard allowed himself to be consumed by the serpent, Godwyn was loved by everyone which probably boosted him greatly. Though Radahann, Morgott and Godrick have one thing in common 3 of them wanted to prove themselves before their fathers. The thing is Morgott and Radahann succeeded, Godrick didn't.
All tarnished are distantly related to godfrey / horah loux, margit the fell omen says "warrior blood must truly run in thy veins" Horah loux also refers to himself as "WARRIOR". The location that we are being awoken in looks like the inside of the erdtree, which makes sense, given we know that dead people's souls return to the erdtree in this world, but in this case instead of being reborn you were awoken from grace, meaning your soul walked out of the erdtree and returned to your body which remained at the chapel of anticipation. Inside the chapel is a dead maiden, likely the maiden meant to be your maiden, the church is also wrecked, and guarded by a grafted scion of godrick. I think that when the tarnished were expelled from the land between, our tarnished refused, instead deciding to take shelter in an isolated chapel with their maiden, thinking they would be safe but be allowed to remain in the lands between. However godrick sent out a grafted scion to enforce control over the chapel, being so close to stormveil, which then killed you and your maiden and continued to guard the location. When you are defeated by the scion or fall of the ledge, your body is then dragged either by the current or by godricks forces to be dumped into the fringefolk hero's grave. This is where Melina finds you. She likely see's potential in you based solely on the fact you survived all that alone, but she is still scepticle and it is more torrents (correct) intuition that convinces Melina to observe us from a distance. All of our unique strength, and our ability to face the demigods themselves, comes from her, lending her own ability to convert runes into strength to you. Melina is nigh confirmed to be a daughter of Marika in the dlc, so her ability to convert runes into strength is a demi-god trait to have and (at least for people who dont beat the game at level 1) is the only reason why we can face the demigods, that along with the grace of gold allowing us to come back to life over and over. All the other tarnished can only upgrade their strength by upgrading their weapons with the help of heugh, none of them have a spectral steed either. Basically we can thank Melina for our unique advantages, and we can thank torrent for having a hunch we were the right tarnished to lend it to. We can also thank Marika for giving Melina her purpose, telling her to find a worthy tarnished, and giving them the strength to become a new lord, and then sacrificing herself to allow the erdtree to burn. Marika likely gave Melina this purpose after the death of godwyn but just before the shattering of the elden ring, when Marika decided her order was broken and in need of change. If your wondering why Melina doesn't go around killing demigods herself, is because she is literally a ghost, she has no body, which is why she can only appear at graces, and probably why she feels no pain when she burns.
One thing tho, Melina allowed us to turn runes into strenght. Its not her ability to convert runes into strenght for us. If you go for the frenzied flame, she abandons you. She tells us she will kill us, for that its her responsiblity for allowing us to turn runes into strenght. This means, we turn the runes into strenght ourself. Either she showed us how it's done, or she unlocked it for us. Either way, she leaves and you still level up without her help.
I would argue that we did start inside a mausoleum, the chapel of anticipation was probably one before it settled down, converting itself into the chapel after its mission to await for our revival was finished.
The Armor of Solitude from the Dlc says "The nameless mausoleums of the realm of shadow are said to hold the spirits of warriors who lost their names, or their hearts" so maybe the tarnished is from one of the mausoleums of the realm of shadow instead thoughts?
Maybe the theories about the old man in the DLC trailer were correct and Messmer is his child but as well as that we are also born from the old man and Marika. Potentially making the old man our father and Messmer our brother?
The head is very often referred to as the seat of the soul. A headless soldier would be that of a soldier who was given the gift of eternal rest while their body marched ever onward doing it's sworn duty. It's very possible that we, as a player, become a soul able to revive one of these soulless demigods.
Kudos to Tomato-chan that theory has solid, stompy legs. It makes sense that the Mausoleums are making so much noise if the lost spirits have to hear it through the fog, and why the ones with bells can copy more rememberances. The other things I know are that the mausoleums themselves are Nox-made. They're a dead ringer to the hanging sections in northern Nokron. Why would the Nox care about Marika's children? The Black Knives allowed demigods to die by killing Godwyn, and they are Numen which are (closely related to) the Nox. The Nox are looking for someone to replace Marika, as seen with the Mimic Tear. They might be holding onto demigods who were more aligned with their ideals that died in the shattering wars, to strengthen their claim in the next age and win back their night sky and the dark moon. The Mausoleum knights & soldiers seem to be aligned, since they are found in the nameless eternal city in the largest numbers. We also find a lot of them in Liurnia where the moon and stars are very powerful, and on the mountaintops where astrology began. My current theory (haven't watched anyone playing the DLC) is that the eclipsed sun symbolizes the rebirth of the dark moon, which is of course what they're trying to do at Castle Sol. So my head canon is that when Ranni takes us through her portal, the Eternal Cities are rebuilt and rise up to the surface to meet the dark moon in the sky while the Erdtree becomes just a husk like all the petrified trees found underground.
LMFAO i mean we already have a pair of siblings who were born cursed - i can only assume they're some sort of divine birth defect from being selfcest babies
I always figured the tarnished were related to Marika via the offspring of the other demigods. Like I figured the demigods all had children throughout time with members of humanity, and their children had children with other men. At least a spark of divinity inhabits each tarnished, and it makes sense the tarnished were led by Godfrey out of the lands between to wage war until they were called back. It’s actually really interesting that the only non-tarnished mob we can fight is Kenneth Haight. Maybe I’m forgetting others though.
I figured this out last night. If you watch the intro of the game, the narrator lists all of the bosses you’ll expect to fight and mentions that they’re all offspring of Marika and includes us the tarnished on that list. I came to the conclusion that I myself am also a Demi god.
But Godwyn is legitimate and beloved son of Marika. If we are rebirthed demigod why we got rebirthed from wandering mausoleum? What it has to do with actual Godwyns body buried under the Erdtree?
@@vsevolodpoddyh8191 If this unwanted demigod is soulless, and we are that demigod, either we never had a soul or we just sorta happened upon one. I don’t think it’s likely but it definitely isn’t impossible Specifically, if there was an attempt to duplicate Godwyn’s soul that didn’t quite work out, it’s possible we ended up with it. Absolute unfounded speculation but a cool thought
This was an interesting theory. I hadn't really thought about it before but I find myself not really connecting to it. I never noticed the sounds you pointed out, that was really cool. I think I can explain them with a different theory, granted one with less lore implications: Bells in the Lands Between are used in summoning rituals especially when dealing with the dead. I think the sounds we are hearing is a bell summoning us to the Lands Between. The cries we hear are our Finger Maiden. The "Stomps" are her killer trying to get into the chapel. Who knows how much time actually passes between us seeing that white light and us waking in the chapel but either way we wake arrive to late. Her killer has gotten in, killed her and closed the doors to hide their crime. Warning incoming wall about why we can beat Demi-gods: As too why we can beat demi-gods as a Tarnished has everything to do with runes. When we arrive in the Lands Between we are a full grown adult. Whatever role we picked we can assume we were at least average or a little less. The stats at the start of the game reflect the level of ability our character could achieve living in the regular world before they died. By this logic having your stats at "peak human" likely means having 20 in everything. The Greatsword's description reads "Though handling it likely requires the wielder to have surpassed the realm of the merely human, it is precisely for this reason the weapon is used to slaughter even inhuman foes." 31 strength, 31 strength means you have surpassed the realm of merely human. Moreover, the Great Runes are just larger pieces of the Elden Ring, the smaller runes we collect along the way come from the same source. As we level up the fragments of runes within us coalesce. Within us is a developing great rune of our own that we are feeding by leveling. The Duskborn quest shows that a broken rune, even a great one, can be rebuilt in a different configuration. Goldmask shows us that nonDemi-god people can create "mending runes" which is basically just a great rune covered in rune glue. Our rune isn't externalized into the ring in any ending because we are alive and need it and perhaps don't have the knowledge of how to wield it. This can be used to explain Radagon's Great/mending? rune since we know there was definitely a point when the Elden Ring did not have the trellis pattern. Radagon's rune is in the Elden Ring now because of his merger with Marika. So, by the end of the game we are a Demi-God in the same way that Godfrey became the first Demi-god (see Godrick Great Rune for text about Godfrey's status as first) we internalized a huge mass of runic power. I can't wait for the DLC to come along prove us all wrong lol
One reason we could just not spon in a mausoleum is that that door acted like a teleport gate, and teleport us to where our maiden would’ve waited for us
Maybe im crazy but the banner at 9:28 could be representative of a beheading. What would a guillontine look like from the front. Blood dripping down and a circle hole where the head is placed.
Also the sounds remind me a lot of the sounds we get on new areas or on graces and when we die. Could be just them reusing sounds, but the sounds we get when we die being the same as a mausoleum sound may hold a lot of meaning.
Headlessness, I think is a precaution against deathblight. Runes make eyes glow, right? Deathblight is fragments of the Rune of Death. Deathblight builds up in the eyes and leaks like we see in the opening with Godwyn. These mausoleum demigods were entombed before Godrick played with Godwyn’s living corpse. So they did not know you just had to remove the eyes to avoid deathblight forming. Of course, there’s also a difference between soulless because the soul is dead inside a living body and soulless because there is no soul present in the living body. I don’t articulate at the moment, hopefully this makes sense.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 oh, I know. My thought is as follows: Godrick is obsessed with the strength and approval of his ancestors but he is a weak and pathetic dumb dumb. Godfrey, the first and greatest of his idols, achieved greatness through the Crucible. He may know of Morgott, or at least sees Margit, an omen, as an incredibly strong figure, an omen. Omen have Crucible features. The Crucible is known for that whole “blending of life” thing. Knowing his bloodline was stronger in the past, Godrick obtained a bit of Godwyn that was not yet infected with Deathblight. (I suspect Morgott brought it to him in order to use Godrick as a test subject while studying deathblight. Morgott does not guard Godrick, he guards an experiment) This bit of Godwyn grows and, as Godwyn was alive during or near to the age of the Crucible, he uses Godwyn’s living corpse’s sinew to perform his vile grafting as a crude mockery of the blending and strength associated with the Crucible. Also, Morgott’s experiment in Stormveil reveals that deathblight does not form in a soulless living corpse if they eyes are removed. It is speculative, I know. I imagine that understanding how deathblight works would be crucial to stopping it. Soulless living corpses come in two varieties, dead soul and absent soul. At first, they did not know there was a difference. They saw Godwyn and noticed his head oozing deathblight juice. So they determined it forms in the head. Mausoleum demigods were beheaded. Morgott figures out it’s the eye, not the whole head. I can’t readily recall why I think there is a difference between dead and absent souls but it seems that the thing in the cocoon has its eyes removed and I believe there is no soul in the body.
I wonder if in Elden Ring something could be alive without having a soul. It would be somewhat ironic if that's the case, because that would make the real world (where we probably do not have such things as souls) more interesting in some respect than this fantasy rpg.
@@Nexus-jg7ev Godwyn’s is a living, soulless husk. His body still lives. D and D share the same soul but it only inhabits one at a time. I say that it is possible to live sans soul.
My crackpot hypothesis was just that we were directly chosen by the Greater Will, with my only piece of evidence being that we are the only _Tarnished_ that can respawn endlessly, even after dieing to Maliketh, who literally wields a permadeath blade. Of course, this is, most likely, entirely disproven by the fact that you can choose to burn the world down in defiance of the Greater Will, so my hypothesis is nothing more than a neat idea at most.
The Frenzied Flame, like all other Outer Gods, is just an aspect of the Greater Will, specifically it's self doubt about whether life is a good thing after all this fucking bullshit it's had to deal with. Bascially, that ending is letting the Intrusive Thoughts win.
We are indeed can't die, but die countlessly ingame is not canon in my opinion. The game implies that our tarnished never lose a single battle throughout his journey to become the elden lord. That's how strong he is. That's why the community treated tarnished like some weak little turd is cringe in my opinion. We projecting our failure onto him literally. The only die shown in the game is when we fall from the church of anticipation in the beginning. We are supposed to defeated grafted scion and dies by falling off of cliff, not by that scion. The ocean drifts our bodies from liurnia to limgrave
@@chakravartin3356 That's not true. The tarnished dying countless times is cannon. Tarnished blessed by the guidance of grace are effectively immortal, but many tarnished lose sight of the grace, which we know from lots of dialogue with many tarnished npcs. Just like hallowing in DS people lose hope and the will to press on and continue their journey eventually losing the guidance of grace. If you think about it from the perspective of the actual character player instead of YOU the player it makes more logical sense. The character is a nobody, chosen by grace, to kill literal gods and famed demigods with unimaginable power, dying over and over to what would seem insurmountable odds anyone in their right mind would give up or just not bother.
@@Apathetic2624 yeah, but remember, Tarnished like D has lost his grace long before we met him, but he is already know as one of the most famous in our era. How do you think people like D becoming famous if not for survive long enough without grace? We died countless time was never mentioned in the game, and most Tarnished are all ordinary people but some still can stand up against demigods or someone with god relation such as Vyke. Also, if you realize it, our Tarnished learnes some of the most powerful sorcery in an instant, like Rennala full moon sorcery, which she herself created that spell by encountering the moon itself when she was young and no sorcerer can copy that except us, lol, a sorcery that makes her the leader of the academy is just a plaything to our tarnished. That's totally a feat no human do
Maybe the starting area is a older mausoleums, as you progress through the game you can find the mausoleums change by becoming more aggressive and etc. That means the walking mausoleums are evolving. The staring area could be one of the first mausoleums that evolved to the point were in no longer needs to be mobile. This process would most likely take a long time, so if this theory is true, than the player would most likely be one of her first illegitimate children.
We expressly are told that we came to the Lands Between from outside so the starting location isn't where we awoken, it's just where we entered the Lands Between from. It is possible that there are mausoleums outside the Lands Between though, so the theory still holds.
I open-mouth gasped when your point dawned on me. Listening to the mausoleum and the game intro, i'm amazed at your keen hearing, in addition to your knowledge of Japanese. This is Theory crafting here. Amazing work.
maybe "our" father is the guy in the chapel of anticipation? the huge statue with the tree staff and head decoration that looks towards the statue of marika? i dont think i've seen his statue anywhere else in the game..
7:09 saw a theory about this, that if you look around in that room apparently the furniture is the same as in the eternal cities, which are known for trying to create artificial life so maybe it was marika trying to make artificial demi gods
Now that we know the info of Marika's backstory with the DLC, I am personally of the conviction that Marika mostly didn't have children the regular way, instead she splits parts of herself that were the result of the amalgamation of life that was stuck in the Jar where she was born from. This would explain why these ilegimate children are souless and unwanted by her, and why they have no known father.
Ah, the Unnamed. I can be of use, I think. If you have the paitence to read through context, then here you go. Keep in mind that much of Marika's actions were in facilitating the Greater Will, and that the Greater Will is a malicious parasite dead set on feeding upon unending life, to the detriment of all who live. Keep in mind also that Marika was originally a numen, the same race as the Nox, and therefore likely the same race as the Gloam-Eyed queen. It's early to speculate given the DLC hasn't cone out yet to confirm what species the Gloam-Eyed queen was, but my intuition tells me that the GEQ and Marika were related - maybe even sisters. Maybe twin sisters. Who knows, only that the GEQ and Marika were both empyreans in the age of the crucible. GEQ was the holder of the rune of death, and Marika was seduced by the GW with the promise of eternal life and bounty. It's a tale as old as time, really. Insofar as the unnamed mossoleum Demi-Gods are concerned, we can stipulate the following: 1. Marika had doubts about the golden order, which is identified by some of her speeches, namely the "the days of blind faith are long gone" and "I shall search the depths of the order" lines. This shows that she had begun to plot against the Greater Will before Godwyn's death. It's possible she did so long before, keeping in mind the timeline. It is unclear exactly when her doubts turned to action, but Godfrey is a good example of the turning point. Godfrey was a tool that Marika used in blind faith to the Greater Will's plans, that is, until she took that step in her long game by banishing Godfrey and his armies (who would have been The GW's tools by proxy). It's furthermore likely that Radagon (being the fanatic) was a creation of the Greater Will, perhaps at the behest of Marika originally (this being parallel to the concept of Rubric, which the three seemingly are based on). Radagon, at that point a free and separate entity, married and neutralized Rennala. The Greater Will, through Marika, beckoned its creation return home. Radagon, originally a simple warrior, had become enamored in incantations (GW order) while married, and so was likely brought to heel by the GWs religious seduction. Returning to the rubric concept, at some unidentified point, two became one, and so the GW further bent its vessel to its absolute will. Still, the fire of rebellion inside Marika resisted, and did not die out. In continuing her long game, she warns cryptically that should her children fail, they shall be sacrificed. 2. The rune of death was removed upon the creation of the golden order - which was the Greater Will's *will*, not Marika's. We know the greater will gives shadows to it's vessels, as evinced by by Blaith and Ranni. Despite Blaiths loyalty, he was there to enforce the GW - so too would Maliketh serve this purpose. We know the GW hates destined death, so Maliketh was scaled appropriately to safeguard it. To upend the source of the Greater Wills power and restore the power to kill a god, it is likely that Marika facilitated its being stolen through Ranni. Keep in mind that the black knife assassin's, and furthermore the Nox, are Marika's people, the former serving her and the later being her cousins, if not kin (The Nox and Numen are related). Ranni doesnt even know how to get to Noxstella. So, Marika plots to reintroduce death. Her unnamed Demi-God children were the planned sacrifices that she was willing to make, and so orchestrated the night of the black knives. Ranni would take the blame, Marika would trick the GW and move forward with her bid to freedom. A brilliant element in a larger plan from a clever woman, but like all plans, it doesn't always happen according to the letter. It's unexplained how Ranni came to know the lore of the rune of death, and how by killing herself at the same time as another god would have its effect (bodily death for her, soul death for godwyn), but it is clear that Ranni has no love for Marika - Marika, after all, destroyed her mother's mind. It is possible that the witch who taught ranni her spellcraft was as nox/numen, and may have been a loose end that failed to be purged. Perhaps said witch served the GEQ, and so was able impart that knowledge to Ranni. At any rate, we know the assassin's were successful in their heist, and many Demi-Gods were killed on the night of the black knives. If Ranni had played along, a simple misdirection (Godwyn being tricked into being in the wrong place at the wrong time) would have been sufficient to kill Godwyn. Its interesting that the stipulation about this method of killing empyreans with the rune of death is that the two must die at the same time in order for the result to be halved. And so, under the full moon, they held him down and carved the rune of death into his back. They left, figuring his death was just the same as the others. As far as they were concerned, they knew where he'd be at a specific time. They didn't know what their handiwork would cause. Elsewhere, under the full moon, Ranni had her back ritually cut as well (I suspect Iiji performed this), killing her bodily. The night is a success. Marika has eradicated demigods, and proven that even a shard of destined death is sufficient for her purposes (creating a weapon to slay a god, or perhaps her shadow). But wait, Godrick and Godefroy are alive? I imagine her heart pounding and her cheeks burning as she immediately realizes something is terribly wrong, for indeed it is. Her beloved golden child, Godwyn, is dead. In a mother's terrible anguish and rage, she overpowers radagon and destroys the elden ring. The GW knows. Radagon attempts to repair it, exerting control once more for its master. Deep inside, Marika's broken spirit looks to her failures and perhaps tastes the bitterness of her GIGANTIC hubris for the first time. Perhaps she thought of the gloam eyed queen (her sister?) for the first time, really and truly, for a long time. Either way, Radagon cannot repair it, try as he might. For this, they are crucified on the rune arc looking thing inside the erdtree, officially discarded by the GW, who seeks a new vessel. The DLC trailer clearly shows Marika creating the Erdtree in its current form. While debated that the GEQ is featured, if the theory is correct that she is there, then Malenia saying her mother is at the foot of the Erdtree gives credence to Malenia being the daughter of the GEQ. If so, it's likely that the shattering of the ring released the spirit of the GEQ. I could keep going, but, to summarize: Marika tries and fails to usurp the GW after orchestrating the night of the black knives. Our unknown demigods, the worthless lot or descended, are killed. Ranni disappears, and Godwyn, beloved Godwyn, is dead. If we are one of them, well, shit.
@izaakaz6863 That's the fun of it. I wonder now if Melina, being the likely firstborn daughter, was an empyrean and got put down early on in the timeline for rebellion. That new item description "like his younger sister, messmer bore a vision of fire" gives a lot to consider, especially considering that the GEQ's primary source of power was black/ghostflame, and her closed eye is literally the beast eye, tying her near and neatly to the concept of death. Maybe her rebellion was against Marika's removal of death specifically. Lots to think about
The Greater Will isn't responsible for the inability to properly die that we see in the world, that is specifcally Marika's fault from when she pulled the Rune of Death/Destined Death out of the Elden Ring in a bid to break the power of the Godskin's as their black flame is related to the RoD/DD. Things were able to die during most of ER's history, else Godfrey could hardly have waged succesful, genocidal wars against the giants, beastmen, and Placidusax, let alone the later war with the ancient dragons that left Gransax's corpse standing in Leyndell. Your theory is interesting, but that's a significant issue in your conception of it here
Why? A crown is warranted with strength. Fated to be the one because you're Marika's child is not as satisfying as being a tarnished of no renown who gains a crown through sheer overwhelming strength. But it's a very interesting theory.
There's precedent for demigods being weak, and I very heavily doubt that divine heritage alone would make you powerful. There is also Marika's message to her children(8:41), where she tells them to do as they wish, but threatens to forsake them if they fail to make something of themselves. I think a god's blood grants not strength, but *potential.* Then again, Melina was the one who grants us the ability to level up.
@@daveski7 It's not that bad, it is true that there are far more mausoleums than known demigods which automatically suggests that there are many demigods we haven't met. Some weaker than others such as Godrick. Biggest hick up in my opinion is that you clearly don't start the game in the lands between.
I'd say the theory is that we were once a demigod, not that we currently are one. Those demigods who died in the shattering wars were forsaken and stripped of their renown, followed and remembered only by the mausoleum knights who entered limbo out of honour of the sacrifice. This still fits nicely into the existing theme of the lowly exile returning to prove themself against much greater foes.
I think that part was just him acknowledging our ability since we have done feats no other tarnished has ever done, but in the end we're all tarnished, and no mortals can hope to kill a god
Gideon should have done his homework because gods have been slain a lot in the past and its not the man who does the killing, its the weapon that kills and a max lv weapon has the power to harm and kill gods. Nerd aint even good at his gig
Watching that opening cinematic so many times in this video, i was struck at the similarity of our Tarnished entering the light (of grace) to the DLC trailer's light of the Divine Gate.
This changes the game for me. It’s my head canon now and it actually makes me want to go through this game. When Elden ring came out I didn’t much like the setting, I preferred the more gothic/fire aesthetic. But this is growing on me.
My only problem with this theory is why our tarnished would begin with templates, like vagabond knight, badlands warrior, and have a race chosen, even numen, if he had demigod ties since the beginning? Besides, in no other moment of the cutscene, it is suggested that we are headless, like all the other souless mausoleum demigod. But, interesting theory nonetheless. I think it is a from software theme that even normal humans can achieve great things, with we persist in what we do, and not give up hope. Like the chosen undead not hollowing, or our tarnished not losing the guidance of grace.
Bc it’s a game, so it still needs to be practical. And the lore behind the classes point of being a demi god. Idk if the theory is good or not, but you have to take that into consideration that it is a game and needs game mechanics which means class templates
I think you can easily come up with a head cannon about how all the classes could fit given the illegitimate line. illegitimate children of nobility in history could not inherit anything so often went on their own paths in life to do different things, you could make the arguement for all the tarnished starting classes. ( Or maybe Wrech is just the cannon starting class)
I also find it interesting.. that we don't start the game where we "start". The first steps was not out first steps. We started near stormveil... And we fall. Into some lowly graveyard.. but when we first wake up. We are in a grand tomb
Maybe that's what Gideon means when saying: a man can Not become/kill a God. Because He would have no idea that we might be more then just a normal tarnished? That's why we COULD actually do it?
I mean, you have the rune of death at that point, and even a weapon reinforced with a Dragon smithing stone, which can twist time and allow you to kill a god. So it's no surprise you can kill elden beast.
@@lucasotavio-i6v You don't kill Elden Beast. Marika and Elden Beast are heavily connected. If you don't get the Age of the Stars or Frenzied Flame ending, you can still see the ''Elden Beast'' inside Marika, because the Elden Beast is Elden Ring itself. You just shape the Elden Beast into another Order. And Marika shatters with Elden Beast. That's why at the trailer both Marika and Radagon shattered. Marika even couldn't kill Elden Beast as a God, it is not strange that we also can't kill it even if we are demi-god. Also, Marika's body shatters even more after your fight with Elden Beast. So, for you to be Elden Lord you need a god at your side, right? Marika/Ranni and Flame of Frenzy are the God candidates. The only God we killed was the Radagon.
First, before I begin, I believe the eclipse based on the banners of the mausoleums are the completed symbol of the rune of death, though I could be mistaken. However, I would like to present another theory: The walking mausoleums house the soulless bodies of demigods, Godwyn the Golden's body has the rune of death to kill one's soul carved on the body of them, thus forcing his body unfit to house his soul any longer due to said rune. When you cause a walking mausoleum to collapse and enter it, you can use the body to reclaim any of the souls of the demigods that you had used for experience, equipment, or skills, thus suggesting that even in their destruction, their sould could potentially inhabit another form and return as the rune of death is not established within the elden ring, though they may or may not be able to reatain their form in one way or another. As for yourself, as Godwyn's body is unfit for use, the Tarnished is Godwyn The Golden reborn, albeit in a new and weaker body, and the only one who can tell and show interest in us is Torrent.
This would actually solve Gideon's dialogue at the end. Gideon learned the truth, that no tarnished could become Elden Lord. He interpreted that as the tarnished having to struggle for eternity. But in reality you are no tarnished. And you DO become Elden Lord.
Okay, cool theory, but where's the empty Mausoleum that housed our flesh? Seems like a pretty glaring hole in the idea, even if the distorted noise is a perfect match
@@NerdOracleread a comment somewhere that said that the chapel of anticipation is called that because they are anticipating a demigod. We came from far away and our mausoleum as well
Interesting to think of this that we were one of the soulless demigods and now we have a soul thanks to the player picking up the controller/ mouse, keyboard!
The Eclipse Shotel is the only weapon in ER that can inflict Death blight, a status effect tied to Godwyn the Golden, or rather his soulless corpse. The headless part and also the symbol of the Eclipse itself I interpret as something hidden. Again the soul, the decapitation could be the ritual to free the soul from the body, i.e. allowing the soul to wander or be reborn without the Elden Ring intervening. That could be the reason why these heroes or demigods are also decapitated. Maybe the Greater Will doesn't even want these children in its power structure, because they are a flaw, since they can reanimate themselves and reshape themselves just by passing time. If the Greater Will is order or stagnation, which is somehow symbolized by the sun. These children "can" be a change, which is symbolized by the Eclipse.
Also we saw in the DLC that Miquella got rid of his whole body to become a full god without any body. Maybe by this, other than by only decapitation his soul doesn't form a body like the tarnished do, but he stays formless without any binding to the physical world other than his consort. If you ask why Miquella and also Rani did go the extra mile to get rid of their entire body, it's because they are blessed by the Greater Will and would be reborn under its influence rather on their own accord. They are stuck in the cycle without going the extra stepp.
Theory: The demigod is in the body of the tarnished who was in the chapel of anticipation. So basically, this little theory solves two things. 1. The interactions between the tarnished and the other characters. 2. Why we actually hear the mausoleum sounds at the start The dead demigod's soul possessing a random dead tarnished could be a lead on how the mausoleum demigods are going to be reborn. This makes sense because the mausoleum corpses are already destroyed way too much and what better way to be reborn rather than possess a random upcoming tarnished. This also tells us why most characters are so unmoved by us in the lands between, as if we are supposed to be here, unlike the dead demigods. The tarnished could be a ticket to rebirth for them
Hi guys! Wanted to sneak in another video before the DLC drops! Only pertains to the base game so watch without worry. Curious to know what you guys think!
Edit: People are commenting mad about spoilers...bros it's the opening cinematic. I didn't think it needed spoiler warnings 😅
Bless 🙏🏼😍🎉
I'm not quite sure why this is the case, and I
can't substantiate it with anything in the game, but I have always felt like we as the tarnish of no renowned have a lot in common with Miquela.
My theory with the eclipse is that, like in reality, the sun is revered in Elden Ring, similar to the Erdtree because of its "life-giving" properties. (We literally need it to exist) There is tons of sun symbology throughout the game. What if, during an eclipse, when the sun is blocked, it somehow creates a way for souls to pass between Life and Death. In Castle Sol, that ghost at the very end talks about how they failed to swallow the sun and bring back Miquellas comrade because their prayers were lacking. What if this is because of two reasons, the first being that an eclipse is a Celestial event, there isn't a way to force it to happen but maybe they could with prayer. The concept of the moon in the game is varied, maybe they can pray to it like an Outer God. Also second reason is that maybe they failed because the comrade, who I am assuming was Godwyn, and whom only died in soul and not body because of Ranni, couldn't be reborn because of that. Since his body never died, his soul has nowhere to be reborn. Sorry for the long post, 😅 but that's my theory
Illegitimate means out of wedlock, which means it could be pre or post consort Godrey, or pre consort radagon. Doesn't rule out Godwyn, also presuming the parentage of any of her kids is truthful. This is the GRR Martin part.
I though for sure you’d mention that Sir Gideon Ofnir, the All-Knowing says “A man cannot kill a god”. We might’ve thought we were proving him wrong but if this is correct then his theory still tracks.
Does this mean every time I see “YOU DIED” the random soldier that kills me sees “DEMIGOD SLAIN”?
Imagining the random soldier being both confused and Horrified at that is making me giggle.
DEMIGOD SLAIN
RS"W-what? I-I did WHAT?? Oh god no."
Sees the tarnished he just killed riding back on a Horse.
"OH GOD NO!"
@@candlestone5397 🤣🤣🤣
Lol “Demi God Delayed”😂
You died, pft, armature.
🤣🤣🤣or “illegitimate demigod slain” “unwanted child slain”
Can we all agree that whatever our tarnished is, they are the most terrifying thing in the lands between. Imagine the demigods and you see this functionally immortal creature who's only purpose is to kill you, and they will, because you can never permanently destroy them. The tarnished is like a fantasy terminator.
Yeah that’s like a human shooting a tiger in the head but it keeps getting back up no matter what you do. Just determined to kill you. Terrifying.
Personally the most terrifying thing to me is the greater will. a Being that doesnt care how it goes aslong as it doesnt go against it. A being that no one can comprehend. For reffrence we can litterally comprehend a half shattered dude/girl with a glowing ring of order inside it that has two personalities that also made a magical phantom tree that u can see acress the entirety of the lands between. But we cant comprehend the greater will💀 whos motivations, form and origins will never be known. Yet he can controll every single one of us and irradicate us and every other being without even thinking of it💀
@@grim1306make the tarnished kill the greater will and thats a wrap
well its kinda written into the lore with the stowing away of the rune of death. thats why we have undead creatures running amuck
@@c4veman lore wise the tarnished never died
The fact that Melina and Ranni both take note of you at the beginning of the game and give you things (Torrent, spirit summons) also suggests that your Tarnished is a pre-existing character and not just some random guy.
Well it was Torrent who “choice”(found) us, while Melina was like “are you sure this is the right guy, torrent?” Ranni takes notice because she heard you were riding on the spectral steed and she knows Torrent and the former owner, most likely Miquella. It could suggest that our tarnished is special because Torrent sensed something in us but I don’t think we are meant to be someone of significance in the story.
The spirit summons, the bell and Torrent all belonged to someone else before us. Most likely that 'someone' is us since fromsoft has that sort of recurring theme. And if thats us it would mean that we were somewhat special during that time aswell.
@@yomo3757 It's strongly implied that person was Miquella.
Torrent is the Tarnished
you can see Okina riding a horse similar to Torrent in Radahn's bossfight if that means anything.
This makes let me solo her funnier lore wise, imagine your naked illegitimate brother whose suposed to be dead just laying hands on you every single time 😭
@@armandaneshjoo "our" 👀
The more lore videos I watch, the bigger Marika's body count gets
Marikas aint sht but hoes and tricks
lmao
I was thinking the same, lmao 😂.
Just like Zeus
Shes for the streets!
Holy shit this makes so much sense.
Marika states that her children that do not amount to anything would be cast aside.
If we're a Tarnished of NO renown it would follow that we were punished for not making something of ourselves if we were in fact a Demigod.
"But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..."
Meaning git gud or die die die....😂😂😂
When we're talking about realizing one's life ambitions like this, I think true "failure" can ultimately only come at the point of death-so long as you're still alive & kicking, you still have a shot at making your indelible mark on the world
And once you're dead, you're officially labeled a failure & entombed in a walking mausoleum as a sacrifice-you never did anything noteworthy, so now your only purpose at that point is to wait for somebody more powerful to come along, claim your essence & use it to synthesize a duplicate of some other entity who became powerful & influential enough to be forever remembered throughout history by having its image & story hewn into the Erdtree as a Remembrance
As a tarnished of no renown, it makes sense that this is the fate which originally befell our character
Why the Grace of the Erdtree gives us a chance to cheat death & escape such a fate by choosing us specifically for resurrection is an entirely different question for which we may never have a definitive answer
fake edit: unless of course the answer is just "this is a video game & we're the MC"
Or we are just aa nobody out of Godfreys presumably hundreds of tarnished. More likely that we are just " ´some dude" since Vyke could have become Lord and he aint no demigod
Actually I think it is a warning of Marika to their children. The “Greater Will” is a parasite in the Lands Between, and want nothing with someone that can’t achieve it’s desire. You can’t see it when the two finger says that the demigods were cast aside by the Greater Will, all of them, and want you the tarnished, to kill them and take their grace for yourself so you can use it as a champion to the Greater Will. Why? Simply because no one of them prevailed in the war. The closest winners were Radahn and Malenia, but they had a tie and were forsaken. Miquella was just too great to follow the Greater Will, as was Ranni. Both strayed away into their own objetives.
We are just tools to be used… You can either be great, or you will be sacrificed and have you grace taken by someone better suited to carry the parasite will. And thats what marika realized, and rebelled against, breaking the elden ring.
In the end, even her body was destroyed and used the carcass as a puppet. And when we beat that puppet, the Elden Beast use it to creste a sword!
The Erdtree is the evil in the lands between, using life energy to it’s benefit, and that why we burn it
of no renown in this setting means of no family to claim, meaning pretty much b@st@rds the demigod kids were raised by her they didnt make themselves anything they quite literally were groomed for success to a level, even mohg and margrette, there was a speculation (like all elden ring lore videos are) that mesmerr was the 1st child, and that the father was that old man next to the blond lady in the dlc trailer. he being in the shadow realm could be that marika forsook him. or Marika was a treesh and had babies all over the place for contingency, which makes the most sense imo. she is a doomist planting seeds all over the place for whatever potential adversary she faces in the future. She is pretty much japanese fantasy fictions Batman, and we are all in the bat family. we are probably a demigod like they said but isnt everyone descended from one another, the warrior chick whose last name is laux is a descendent of the 1st elden lord, even Godrick is a descendent of him. it makes sense that the lady with a god complex might have actually planted the seeds for the mortals in her world to be related to her in some way or form. but again we all just speculating at the end of the da
I like that this makes Gideon "The All-Knowing" Ofnir less ludicrusly uninformed.
He did know, in his bones, that a Tarnished could not become the Elder Lord.
Our bones received no such memo.
He was never well informed, he only knew a little more than us..
@@JG-fj6xq so isn’t that well informed in terms of us??? I’ll split hairs all day.
Did he know I was going to destroy him
Wasn't the whole point of Gideon's character that he was seeking knowledge, but massively exaggerated what he actually knew to manipulate other tarnished?
@@DarkKnight6six6 No, the books in his chamber and the dossier on all the relevant demigods and the canonical extensive network of secret agents and the fact that he derives iconic spells from bosses just by watching us fight them all indicate some real competence in the fact-finding arena.
He's just intellect without courage. A man without a chest.
I want to point out that Vyke killed 2 Demi-gods, and so did Bernahl. We're not the only Tarnished who could have reached the end-game; Bernahl had the wrong Maiden and couldn't burn the Erdtree, and Vyke fell to the Frenzied Flame.
Tho, it’s still leave five mausoleum in the land in between, enought of them for one of those corps to be us, eventually.
Also, that Vyke is a descendant of Godfrey/Horah loux. We know nothing else of Bernahl though.
Where did you read this? And which demigods did they kill?
@@darrincheng771 Some lore theory videos seems to point out Bernahl would be Rykard's brother.
Damn guys where do you get that information? I need sause cause im curious now. Played the game and had no idea about such facts about them.
I always thought the sounds in the intro are the sounds of Marika/Radagon hammering on the Elden Ring. The stomps are the hammer blows, and the cries/bell sounds are the Elden Ring vibrating and cracking under the strain, perhaps also the Elden Beast trying to communicate with Marika/Radagon, or just roaring in pain.
😃👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👍🏽
I think this is a pretty viable theory as well and I honestly think this theory is more likely than our tarnished being born from a walking mausoleum. But still a cool theory either way. I love that this game is 2 years old and we are still finding new things.
Was looking for this exact comment 😁 agreed
Seemed obvious to me that this is what it meant
I always thought it was pretty evident from the hero’s armor we’re a descendant of Godfrey/Hoara Lux and our gathering of runes was our journey to demigodhood
So what you're telling me is... we either marry our mom or sister, if we chose anything other than the frenzied flame ending...
GRRM? 🤷♂️
Look up any mythology and you would see that gods marry relatives all the time. And of course, Marika committed SUPER-Incest. Although it seems Marika's bodycount is expanding.
Sweet home Alabama
love is love
Ranni is born from that egg thing, so she is related to Radagon not Marika if even related to anyone at all. though they are said to be the same person, but that gives some leeway. she would have not come out of the same person at least.
(Edited)
Looking back I see I'm using an idea that was in a theory not main line lore, in the theory they try to explain why Ranni is an empyrean. as the leading idea for that is you need to be born of one god or gods, like how Melina and Miquella are. so the theory was that Ranni was born of the egg Radagon give her, as to be empyrean you must be born of a god or gods, and Rennala is not one.
The big problem with this theory is that now a decent chunk of Marika porn needs to be tagged as incest
As if it didn´t before.
And Ranni…
George R.R. Martin DID have a hand in the creation of the lore... it wouldn't be that shocking.
@MHVideos777 incest seems to really reoccur here also spoilers below this for the dlc
Incest like Miquella and revived fucking radahn who is basically a God, prime radahn.
They're gods incest is kinda their thing
4:50 as somebody obsessed with audio and sound design. The attention to detail of actually using those sounds to hint at an untold setting is really beautiful. At first I thought, they could just be combining random background game sounds. But you showed us!!🎉
Maybe we don't wake at a mausoleum because our body has to be united with our head and then be blessed by grace.
So our murdered maiden at the start reunited them and then was killed?
If so, we should find an empty mausoleum in the game
@@guillaumesuchet9263Maybe in dlc but also it is important to consider the fact that we may not be able to since it could have been destroyed upon our resurrection.
The first enemy you encounter is a grafted scion, so maybe our maiden was looking for a way to graft our head back onto our body and got killed in the process? Maybe the reason we don't find an empty mausoleum at the start is because we died in a far off land away from home, which might also hint as to why our starting location was on the coastline - perhaps after being shipwrecked.
Then what about ranni’s words “ godwyn” he is the first demigod died
@@yusufamin7243 Godwin's death is obviously quite singular and we have no idea how the people in the mausoleums died ... but it was certainly a different death.
Also, Renna (oops Ranni) is lying to us about a lot of elements at the beginning of the game
It's a fun theory and i can see it being a possibility, Marika was... not shy about sharing her bed, lets say lol hell, the Tarnished could theoretically pre-date Marika's rise to godhood all together or maybe they're a bastard born out of wed-lock if that 'illegitimate' line is literal in intent and the child was born of adultery or maybe to seal a pact with another group/faction, etc. I do love the Idea of one of Marika's kids not really amounting to much at all though and Marika just hating them for it
Marika: "Why can't you be more like your brothers or your sisters?"
Tarnished: "which ones? the brother who fed himself to a snake? the brother who went mad and turned into a cannibal because our sister poisoned him? The sister who poisoned him? The other sister who killed our other brother then killed herself because she joined a crazy moon cult or one of the two siblings you keep locked up in the sewers because the sight of them repulses you??"
Marika: "...clean your mausoleum, it's filthy in here" *slams door*
I'd love a classic family sitcom version of elden ring
Ive always thought the main character is a Tarnished being akin to purpose as the DoomSlayer in his universe. When things get so bad you have to unleash an avenger to set things right.
Good way to put it 😂
Keep in mind that godrick is a long distant offspring of godfrey. Ie, a demigod too since he's a descendent of marika.
Our tarnished can simply be part of that family tree. Or we could be a long distant relative of chadahn.
Technically Marika is the one who had children with Rennala...
I saw the video and continued my own run, at Leyndell, Royal capital an enemy can drop the Envoy's Horn.
I read the description of the item and i thought that it might be inherent to this video.
The description says:"Originally an instrument, but one that cannot be sounded by mere humans. Or perhaps it is too early to sound the call."
The weapon art actually makes the horn make a sound, it means that maybe the tarnished is not just a human, but actually something more.
And the Envoy's play their tune when waiting for a new god to arrive, that God could be you, there also at the haligtree for either Melania or miuqula ( her brother)
@@Lego_Whis_the_wise They play it for a new god alright, just not you
@@Lego_Whis_the_wise the mental image of the envoys just being entierly quiet only for the tarnished of no renown to arrive and they just go ham is funny to me
@@CythezISIt makes sense now why they are on Miquella's tree since he becomes a god in the end
@@Not_Alan_Wakeevidence of the dlc story in the base game.
I like this theory a lot. Its canon to me now.
I love the idea rhat Marika cast off this child who she thought would amount to nothing.
And this child just, changes the lands between forever out of spite.
Well you the player are the child 😂 it’s not a premade character
or rather, she brings you back now that all other, supposedly greater, demigods have failed her
@@healingpoison8241"perhaps I treated you too harshly"
- Queen Marika, supposedly
"fuck you, mom I do what I want!" Lmfao
When I saw the thumbnail, I was like “So we just making random theories about anything now”. But after watching the video, it’s actually pretty interesting and I want to believe it.
Hahaha Same lol I wasn't sold till they directs comparison. After that i had a WTF Moment xD
Sounds like nonsense
@@miceatah9359 I agree. There is literally no indication that we are a demigod. We are a descendant of a tarnished which were Godfrey’s warriors when they were banished from the Lands Between. We are 100% not a demigod. That would ruin how cool it would be that we are a nobody who rose to challenge the gods, and won.
@@Kazanko28
It would still be pretty cool because then we would have a better claim to the elden throne than anyone else, and we would be claiming OUR throne by right
though the idea of conquest is slightly better and cooler
That japanese UA-camr is a troll, this theory is a joke. Even himself point out that it contradicting the fact that we can choose starting class.
Tomato-chan is probably the sweetest UA-cam channel name.
It is! He has a really dark sense of humor too which is a funny contrast.
The cutscene from the dancing lion fight in the DLC would seem to support this as Marika is referred to as a strumpet and us her vile progeny
Oh...then i feel shame as her 1 of her child (if i am)
Yeah, damn. I didn't even realize.
Pretty sure Messmer could easily be who the Hornsent woman was referring to
Messmer refers to the tarnished as a "mongrel intruder." Which to me refers to our origin not being proper from his prospective
The woman that says this confesses that she mistakes us for one of messmers troops when you speak to her later
Miyazaki said a Tarnished is someone who died outside of the lands between and was resurrected by grace from the outer will to restore order.
My fan theory is the PC is actually Godwyn. Several items talk about transferring souls. Moving them into a new body or puppet restores the life of the individual.
The starting tomb does look like a walking mausoleum though.
I always felt like we are in the Erdtree at the begining. Specifically the Stone Platform you can warp to after defeating the Elden Beast. Look towards the opening. Similar to Marika in the DLC trailer.
I thought the same thing. No one seems to cover this though. It looks just like the arena in the erdtree boss fight
This would make a certain sense realistically. There are a bunch of references to "all life coming from the Erdtree" throughout the entire game. Could be literal in the case of our character. Even Melina talks about how she was born at the foot of the Erdtree
but why? I don't think it makes any sense. Marika is inside the Erdtree and we probably come from outside TLB. No one seems to cover it because it doesn't concile with the rest of the game
@simonediblasi8950 well Marika is the one who calls us to TLB and like you said, she is inside the tree, imprisoned there for her crimes. Makes sense that this where our soul would first come to first, then we get reborn into a new body and sent off to become elden lord. That's how I think of it anyway.
@@aaronuhrlaub2081 but we don't get a new body, it's the same we had before (eg: a warrior descending from hoara loux, or an astrologer), and we appear at the church of anticipation. It wouldn't make any sense for our dead body to be inside the Erdtree before grace revives us and beckons us to TLB
A very interesting potential lore tidbit is how the often looked over info from the starting classes. The hero is a decedent of Hoarah Loux, the Astrologer is called an HEIR to the school of glintstone sorcery (a potential translation error or could be connected to Carian royalty), the warrior is likely of the same tribe as the blue dancer, etc...
Ah yeah, that too, this theory really does a good job of not making _any_ sense in the context of the actual game
Hero is not a descendant of Hoarah Loux, just an elite warrior of his army. In cut content, He Who Walks Alongside Flame was meant to be a child of Hoarah Loux however - and there still seem to be some leftovers that could imply it (I.E. "Well, thou art of passing skill. Warrior blood must truly run in thy veins... Tarnished.")
@@gunsevenwhillans420 Hoarah Loux's title is "chieftain of the badlands", and the hero is "descended from a badlands chieftain" according to the flavor text in the character creation, and since Hoarah Loux is the only one in game with this title, I think it's safe to assume that it is referring to him. One difference though, is that the japanese text is written as hearsay/speculation, it says that the hero is "considered to be a descendant", instead of stating it as a fact like the english version does.
@@glhrmefernand Hm. I need to look into that again.
@@gunsevenwhillans420 The hero starting classes description heavily suggests that he is, "A stalwart Hero, at home with a battleaxe, descended from a badlands chieftain..." the main point being that the hero is a dependent if a badlands chieftain. Horah Loux is the only recorded badlands chieftain not to mention the hero wears the exact same gear as Nepheli Loux. It the connection with battle axes and thematic connection would make sense calling a barbarian a "hero" its odd when there are other characters.
Please continue giving us more lore theories that the Japanese have come up with because the English ones are getting stale
idk man, have you noticed how the drake talisman depicts a map? blew my fucking mind
Everywhere I go , I see you commenting.
Α ρε 2j πόσο γαμάτο είναι το elden ring
Yes man
This
@@krystasullivan3098 PLS NO
This tracks with how the Eclipse Crest Greatshield depicts the 'guardian star of soulless demigods' and buffs all of the Tarnished's status resistances.
Even during my first playthrough I wondered if the main Tarnished would be revealed in a twist ending as Marika's bastard child because remember, the backstory of Elden ring was written by George RR Martin, who LOVES putting arcs of insest and bastards finding out who their real parents are in his work.
Co-written.
Stop being a bastard and go love your sister!
Mizyaki putting as much feet while George puts as much incest
Are you saying my blue wife is my sister
Why do you even care ?
marika just married herself (radagon)
Step sister
Half* because radagon is Marika @@cyrowing1552
Keep it in the blood line 😂😂😂😂
@@cyrowing1552 Half-sister, since Radagon and Marika are the same
remember that line offnir utters on defeat? "i knew it in my bones... no *man* can kill a God..." the line makes so much more sense now, he comes to the realization of what you are and the irony of missing this one demi god just makes him so much more of a fool.
He goes on to say “not even you”
@@RegalBeginner!!
*know it in my bones, makes a big difference
He said knew
@@JFDovidhe said know
I have not yet seen the video but I'm already going to comment what me and some guy on Reddit found out two years ago. At least one of the classes you can pick, Hero, is related to Horoah Loux (and thus Nepheli) by blood. Horoah Loux is introduced as 'Horoah Loux, chieftain of the badlands' before the game starts. The description of the Hero class (which is basically default Nepheli) states that they were descendants of a badlands chieftain.
Now I'm going to watch the video and see what the Nihonjin came up with ✌🏻
Edit: Funny how context can change an entire translation. Now get ready for the 'prepare to read' edition of my comment which you're probably not even gonna see. I was actually really feeling that theory, but I'm 100% certain that this is not the case, as you are tarnished. Tarnished are people who died outside of the Lands Between, but were resurrected by grace. (Source: Miyazaki) Although, apparently Godfrey became tarnished as well right after losing his grace, so who knows. But that's how Miyazaki described tarnished with regards to the player. But that would mean that there is no possible way for the protagonist to resurrect in a Mausoleum, as they weren't in the land where the mausoleums are present. Loux's scars of him being impaled in the intro are also still seen on his body during his boss fight, which means damage done to the body persists after reawakening. As all demi-gods in the mausoleums are headless, that would've been pretty awkward.
Here's my theory: What you hear is in fact the mausoleum, but not because it's where your corpse lies in, but because it's being used as transportation. As you can see in the intro cutscene, the narration isn't just a story being told to the player, but a monologue from an actual in-game character as he's shown in the cutscene telling the story. I believe this unknown person hails from the Lands Between and has the task (for whatever reason) of bringing the tarnished back to the Lands Between. Mausoleums are the perfect choice to cross the sea, as they can just walk on the seabed with the inside sealed off from the water outside and any other sort of dangers, giving enough time for the tarnished to eventually rise once more. He actually witnessed the tarnished coming back to life. As to why the mausoleums would do that; these things are in constant mourning. I don't think they're too fond of Marika, so a tarnished becoming elden lord would probably sounds pretty good to them.
I think there's quite some time passed between the first cutscene and the gameplay. No proof, just a hunch. I always thought we actually had a maiden, but that she was killed in the chapel of anticipation, after which the game actually starts. I still can't shake off the feeling that she had been killed by maiden-blood hungry Varré, who carried the tarnished to the stranded graveyard after they were defeated by the grafted scion. How else could he know we were maidenless right away? I mean come on, she could've still been asleep or something, maybe going number two, anything at all.
Miyazaki presents stories like his childhood. He was born in poverty, and the only books he could read contained words he didn't understand, so he filled in the blanks with his imagination. That's how he handles storytelling in his game as well. As long something is not presented as fact, all fan theories are always correct if you look at it like that.
There’s one issue with the key stone of your point, being a descendant of Godfrey does not indicate that we are not illegitimate, it’s not even exactly clear how people are born in the lands between, we don’t know in what way we are descendant of Godfrey and he definitely doesn’t treat us as family when we meet him. We still could’ve been a demigod and there’s a myriad of reasons we were exiled or killed. And the headlessnesss of the body in the mausoleum may just be a depiction anonymity of the player character.
When Miyazaki says that Tarnished are those who "died outside The Lands Between" I think it could just as easily be refering to those who died outside of The Lands Betweens natural cycle of death and rebirth. Most creatures return to the Erdtree when they die and are reborn after some time. There is at least one way of circumventing this natural cycle of death and rebirth: Destined Death. Perhaps those felled by Destined Death (like those in the Night of the Black Knives) are forced out of TLB, similarly to how Godfrey "departed".
We know that the Souless Demigods bodies (who died in the Night of the Black Knives) are resting in the Walking Mausoleums, of which there are 7. However 2 of those Walking Mausoleums are "fake" as they specifically cannot duplicate the Rememberance of any of the Demigods. So we have 5 Mausoleums that I believe correspond to the 5 named Tarnished in the opening cinematic. Hoarah Loux, Goldmask, Fia, Dung Eater, and Sir Gideon Ofnir the All-Knowing.
The locations of the Mausoleums is something that has always puzzled me, and feels like there must be some reason as to why there are where they are, and interestingly there may be a connect with each Mausoleum location and their respective Tarnished.
Fia's Mausoleum is right next to where wants to end up in game, in the Deeproot Depths with Godwyns body.
Goldmask's Mausoleum is the one outside of Castle Sol, he wears a Goldmask like the Sun.
Gideon's is outside Apostate Derelict, where the Albinauric's Journey ends.
Hoarah Loux's is in the Weeping Peninsula, he notablely had a campaign there at Castle Morne, but I think the real idea is of him Weeping/Mourning his slain son, Godwyn
This leaves Dung Eater's being the Mausoleum in Liurnia... which frankly I have no idea what that Mausoleum could even correspond to. The closest thing is that it is roughly above the Dragonkin Soldier of Nokstella's arena, and the Dead Giant that rests there. I have 0 clue.
Also I think Godwyn being resurrected as Vyke makes so much sense with the Tarnished = Demigod theory. There is the clear duality between the 2 with them both being the only known people to befriend dragons. Plus Vyke is said to be one of the 1st Tarnished, which would make sense if it was Godwyn.
Crackpot theory ik.
@@shinyhydreigon7257i like the idea of the other mausoleums carrying characters we see in the game
Youre actually right about Varre, it was proven already through in game hints that he killed our maiden lol. There's a video of it somewhere showing how she might have looked like
Very interesting when also considering the last thing that Gideon says after you defeat him. “A man cannot slay a god”
But they can and have. The Godskins did exactly that.
@@daveski7The only members of the Godskin Cult who can really be classified as human are the Black Flame Monks.
@@footballfanboy9680 they didn't "have" destined death, they served it/him. Maliketh has the Rune of death and the only other known piece was the blades used to kill Ranni and Godwyn.
@@daveski7this is only applicable if giant stretchy snake people count as men
"Not even you" implies that either 1, he is dead wrong and you are strong enough to do so, or 2, he is right, and you are no mere man, regardless of your strength.
Another clue to this is Gideon's Dialog, which I always thought was strange... That he knows in his heart that a tarnished could not become Elden lord. I have always assumed that the headless demigods were in reference to headless vampire burials. They would cut off their heads to prevent them from rising and haunting them. Which kind of makes sense that considering rebirth is such a common theme in elden ring.
Lol Had the same thought!
In as much as this might make sense, the second half of the dialogue states “a tarnished cannot become a lord , NOT EVEN YOU. A man Cannot Kill a god. The “not even you” is not so clear . Perhaps we can hear the Japanese version
Oh...true xD hmmm
@@tomisinolapo2317 Hmm true, I forgot that.
@tomisinolapo2317 I mean, it's fairly easily explained by him thinking we are also just a tarnished. The "not even you" basically meaning that despite our great accomplishment so far, we're still just a tarnished
heres the thing about that....your tarnished like all the other important npcs that they show in the opening cutscene are regaining their grace and coming back to life where they last died after having lost their grace the first time marika renounced them, fia with a dead king in a crypt, godfrey pined to a tree in some wasteland, giddion in a tomb surrounded by his servant spies etc, and your tarnished is on the floor of the arena where you fight Radagon inside the erdtree at the end of the game. your tarnished for whatever reason is revived at the beginning of the game inside the erdtree at the feet of marika and then transported to the room near stormveil castle.
Nah, no golden leaves, it aint the "stump"
You are spot on. The bass sound is from the initial cinematic trailer, its not stomps but the shattering and reforging of the elden ring. The beginning always reminded me of "things betwixt" from Dark Souls 2.
I feel like we are basically the greater wills last resort a sorta nuclear option
@@theenderdestruction2362 just like in DS3
@tetrahedron9196 basically but more pointent, basically it kinda feels like we are the greater wills child? Idk, basically, it feels like the greater will only chose us as the last one cause of how uncontrollable we are or something
What also speaks for that theory is Melina and torrent why would they approach a random tarnished and set all hope in him, Melina said that "she doubt us at first but torrent never did", i think before Marika cast us aside or killed us, Torrent was our steed and was killed too, thats why he is a spirit the time we met. And maybe Torrent was the one who drew attention to us that we would be the one to Melina because horses are extremely loyal creatures just look up what warhorses did to protect their knight in the medieval age, so she initiated our rewive because the moment we were rewiveed she was right there and Torrent instantly sniffed us out.
The other thing is Ranni, she gave Torrent to Melina its like they planned everything together to bring the age of stars, because why would Ranni approach a random tarnished and give him the bell for spirit summoning, perhaps ranni knew us when we were alive after all we are her stepbro, this is why she snatched Torrent as a spirit. She even thanked Torrent and i think she thanked him for telling her about us or pressing her to put faith in us.
summary Torrent is a fucking chad, loyal even in death
The third thing is Gideon Ofnir the all knowing, when we kill him he said something like: "he knows no tarnished can become elden lord", but we are no ordenary tarnished thats why we can become elden lord, and no one likes him but ussaly he is right in what he says.
Also explains why we ride so well, even from extremely lowly backgrounds, where not only can we stay steady on a full gallop and jump, but even shoot from horseback, a famously difficult skill. It's hard to say for sure, but in medieval times horses were quite rare, and only those of some wealth would be able to afford one typically. The thing about Torrent is that... he has horns... which is probably why he killed as those with horns are... not appreciated. It could be why we have him as well, as we are unwanted so bonded with Torrent who was also unwanted, before we were both put to death.
I don’t like the way you’re spelling revived but i get your point lmao
Isn't it confirmed that Torrent was Miquella's horse?
@@MahirAnowar idk is it? I never heard of it
This actually makes a lot of sense.
And also brings us back to ancient Greek myths about heroes (i.e. demigods) hidden from everyone in some secluded spots who eventually go into world and change everything.
Like Paris or Achilles from Trojan war.
Even Zeus was hidden away for years before coming to free his siblings.
Paris is not even a hero for gigolos. Unbearable character, plunging several states into war through his juvenile libido. Thats not even an anti-here, that is just a fool. The Godrick of greek mythology.
Could they be children of Marika from before she became a God? If so, it would make sense for them to be illegitimate since they weren't born from the coupling of an Elden Lord and a God, but instead from some random guy and a future God.
Who's they here? The other demigods?
@@lodapow173 The corpses in the walking mausoleums.
It's hilarious to imagine that she was "for the streets" before being chosen as Empyrean.
@@courier6640greater will is a simp
@@courier6640” ay man, did you hear Marika is gonna be Empyrean? She been with half the eternal cities!”
If the demigods in the mausoleums are Illegitimate child's of merica. Then I propose the father for each child is based off of the character classes to choose from. The warrior is from a nomadic tribe who the blind swordsman was apart of. The blind swordsman was said to be strong enough to seal the god of rot away.
It would be very interesting if he was one of our possible fathers, it would explain why Marika would keep him around to the point of making him Malenia's master
maybe if we choose Hero that would make Godfrey our father, but only from a time when he was still hoarah loux and not married to Marika making us an illegitimate child
'Merica!
I hope to fight this Guy so much...
Marika was out there hooking up with the strongest person from every different culture
It is a legend. Game even states so with the flowing blade. They most likely vanquished mushroom lords and redirected the river to wash away stagnation of Rot God.
However, essense is so strong that even while diluted by holy river, it is still most potent source of Rot damage, even surpassing Malenia's.
The narrator in the opening scene names some of the other surviving demigods and transitions to us, a tarnished of no renown. That to me was a hint that we're somewhat related to them in terms of power.
yeah, it lists demigods and says 'and one other' us
What? It mentions the tarnisheds...
@@someguy9164 But Hourah Loux could be considered a demigod?
It mentions people who can potentially be elden lord
@@someguy9164not quite right as it states in in-game text that the first demigods were Godfrey and his descendants, the golden lineage
Edit: item description I'm talking about is godrick's great rune
Marika is for the STREETS!! She been getting ran through and running through!
lmao 😂 I would love a "Marika is for the Streets" shirt.
It's funny that, as far as I can tell, she is actually just a canonical hoe lol. Makes sense, given that she's queen of everything and all that, but still, damn.
This one might not by her choice,look up what some American slave owners do when the import of new slave got cut off, considering the importance Marika's people as ingredients for Jarring ritual it won't be surprising if the horn sent "copy the homework" this would tie in with "unsightly/shameful illegitimate child"
If this was a man ya’ll would NOT be saying that ..🙄🤣
The girl is an immortal goddess thousands of years old, what else was she supposed to do with her eternal life?
It's a cool theory but doesn't really add up. The Tarnished are Godfrey, his warriors and their descendants, they lost their grace when Marika cast them out as learned from Melina in one of the churches of Marika. Also every single starting class (except the astrologer) is explicitly from somewhere outside the Lands Between, and the Tarnished being a Demigod undercuts the main theme of every single FromSoft game, namely that you are just the latest of a long, long line of people to have tried this, and that you just happened to be the one to do it, your success built on the corpses of those who came before you (remember where you get all of your items from?)
The Tarnished were returned their Grace as a last resort to fix the Elden Ring, their revival was plan Z. And besides if you were revived in a walking mausoleum, why do you start in an offshore island surrounded by cliffs?
I agree.
This whole "possible interpretation" is based on merely two information.
It feels like they wanted to believe something and stitched it together to make sense. I personally don't like this way of reasoning.
They tell you why you don't revive in a mausoleum in the theory and it's not like revival is instant usually in any game with respawn that isn't cod takes awhile in-between dying and respawning
Godfreys warriors are the first tarnished, not all
I believe that the Tarnished are all those from outside of the lands between. It makes sense how they were all guided by grace to the Lands Between to become Lord. The low-key racism makes sense as well since they're foreigners, and it makes sense that each and every one of the starting classes are Tarnished, even though they all come from different areas. If only Godfrey and his warriors were tarnished, then if you picked anything other than the barbarian starting class, you would not be Tarnished.
It's possible Godfrey wasn't the first demigod who was banished from the land between, considering its long history. There could be other Ancient/unknown demi-gods who was in service of Marika before she banished them. One of them could be Marika's child before she's married to Godfrey. That's why all of them are capable of defeating demi gods and use the great runes.
I mean basically all the outer gods including the greater will tries to get to you so you must be something important or with great potential
would definitely explain why mechanically we are able to learn any magic from any outer god
I think several characters remark on how people seem to want to trust us intrinsically, unless we give them a reason not to. Could just be a joke about the way things usually go in these kind of RPGs, or something more. Miquella connections, perhaps?
@@davisiotta489 then again gideon is also able to wield a wide variety of sorceries and incantations depending on who we defeat ranging from bloodflame incantations from Mohg and the formless mother, black flame incantations from the godskins and Gloam Eyed Queen, scarlet aeonia from Malenia and the goddess of rot etc as well as golden order incantations
@@Solibrae Godricks real
Tries to get you? In what way?
This theory really spoke to me, and it fits too damn well with why our tarnished, besides all else, is blessed by gold. I'd like to add one possible piece to this puzzle - The fact that the tarnished emotes "O Mother" to Marika's statue and that it opens the way to the Shaman Village is quite telling.
OMG YOU ARE SO RIGHT
Also would like to note that we are always shown to be important from the very beginning. Where we spawn at there was an entire bridge built so someone would be able to reach us as well as a portal to access the area by the bells. Not only that but if you pay attention to the opening dialogue the narrator tells “us” to become the Elden Lord as opposed to everyone else. All of the other NPCs go around and do their own thing for a while before we came along. “A tarnished of no renown” also doesn’t mean that we didn’t have renown before just means that we currently have none. We could have been an important figure in the past but were stripped of glory or enough time passed to where we were forgotten. Also if we weren’t important at all you would think that just calling us a tarnished would be enough.
I feel like we are the greater wills last resort, a sorta nuclear option when all else fails, the greater will pretty much trys to get anyone else to become elden lord and well it all fails,
The illegitimate child.. you were one of them..born a tarnished ( like morgot) (minus the crucible aspects). Grace was taken from the tarnished in days of old. Then the erd tree granted us grace once again.
"Illegitimate" completely changes the tone. I wonder what the implications of the beheaded corpse are; swift and painless execution, or meant to dishonor the spirit upon revival? Really well-done video!!
Thanks so much @Kitetales! I just found your channel recently and I have been enjoying your videos as well :)
Often a being cannot revive if beheaded unless they are reunited if being could revive when beheaded wouldn't the head and body revive separately when the body registers death damage creating two of you? Which would be the real you? Typically to revive a being the head and body have to be reunited before revival can begin. The church you wake up in could very well of been where your head was stored. While taking the head to the body would be easier the mausoleum are all in the wide open and reviving a failed demigod would draw way to much attention. Stealing the body while harder taking it to the head stored on an island isolated away from prying eyes would make chances of the revival being interrupted lower than conducting it in the open.
This makes me really think: how many times did Marika attempt to birth an Empyrean strong enough to eliminate the hold of the greater will? And eventually out of frustration, would smash the Elden Ring as a hasty method to bring chaos to that control in some way.
Walking Mausoleums only house the headless demigods.
Chapel of ANTICIPATION, as in, awaiting for something to happen, is where the Demigods get resurrected at, either being brought there from their mausoleums, or, the Chapel itself being a prototype version of such a mausoleum, seeing it may have been sooo much more magnificent in the past, being ruined either during the Shattering or... by someone who actually knew the place's actual purpose and wanted it to cease function.
Holy. Fucking. Shit. 🤯
Is it written somewhere that chapel of anticipation is for ressurecting demigods?
@@tejastakalkar7924 no, but Araneus21 never stated it as fact.
How can you claim that thee chapel of anticipation is a place of resurrection if we could have been simply been teleported/summoned there by an incantation? What you tipped is pure speculation at best
Chef's kiss, this side theory is immaculate. I always felt like that name had to have some kind of significance but I had no idea what it could be
This theory changes everything. Also Enia dialogue where she talks about taking the shards from the other demigods and having their heads. The last part of this dialogue says “you are here to take, are you not”? which resonates with Melinas speech where Marika spoke to her demigod children
Always resonated with me that you were not unlike the other demi-gods in that sense. Your goal is in essence the same.
That also resonates with how the Tarnished are meant to pick up after the demigods, and how they are there to "put the demigods to the sword"
This makes too much sense and makes the elden ring jigsaw feel complete. Also, this would be such a George R.R Martin thing to do. Bastard child returns, kills the queen and marries his sister.
Ranni isn't Marikas daughter
@@eternal_trickster1541 still makes her half sister though, through Radagon
@@eternal_trickster1541 she is radagon is marika. Ranni is a Empyreans which mean both of her parents are god.
Ranni's father is radagon
Radagon is part of marika
So that makes ranni a child of marika as well
@@eternal_trickster1541
Doesn’t the opening game scene portray all the tarnished from there graves a literally say they crossed the fog back into the lands between? Which then makes all the in game messaging people running around make sense we’re just all part of the tarnished hordes.
Well, at the beginning of the game, the chapel in which you awaken is festooned with the images of a beast-a symbol representing descent from the "golden" nobles. There are gravestones and coffins piled in pretty much every corner of this game, but you wake up in this special place. Seems to suggest you're more than an ordinary Tarnished, as does the attention from other actors in the story who killed your maiden.
(MAYBE SPOIL AHEAD)
idk if this is nonsense but in the DLC we can make this "O mother" emote infront of a MArika statue to this secret area. Maybe this is also a hint?
Could explain the randomness of the encounter
I'd think it would suggest otherwise. From my opinion, it would seem people of Marika's village/belief would see her as a mother cuz she is the leader of her people become god, so a motherlike deity. The potentate village implied the theory that Marika's village were used as sacrifice for pot people (O mother opening up the secret path to said village) to create a pot deity. The emote being their signifying their prayers to their mother deity, Marika, in hopes of her coming to save them.
Implying that would mean anyone under her regilious umbrella would be considered her 'child'. So, my assumptions were that the mausoleums were nobility (aka people like Godrick) who aren't complete direct descendant but watered down ancestry and maybe even to the point where they lost any connection to godhood due to thinning bloodline.
(I also think we aren't demigods but crucible warriors under Godfrey/Hoarah Loux which is why we can use crucible stuff, kill demigods, and assume rights as we were warriors of grace but it was taken from us and we got banished with Godfrey, hell we could just be a descendant of Godfrey himself AFTER he got banished... he still was a demigod himself)
o mother could be hinting that marika is our (the tarnisheds) mother, or it could be that the corpse that we get it from died while kneeling ifront of their mother and then their final words where just that "o mother" but then again being the demigod child of marika who then became the lord of frenzied flame is also cool so idk
The Statue is in the Shadowkeep so Messmer build the hidden path its prob just him because he is a big mommys boy
I can’t help but feel that the ghost npc near the mausoleum was actually hinting at Messmer, him being the oldest and possibly the reason for other illegitimate children being beheaded and guarded. Also it’s funny how miquella just wanted to cure himself and his sister and give his brother a true death but figured out something he shouldn’t have and found himself in a entire rabbit hole of lies, deception, scandals and a bloody coverup. I’d want nothing to do with my fate either.
Spoilerssss
No. After the DLC we all know how that happened. And it was not him. Also theres more then just 1 mosseleum💀 and theres only one messmer😂
there is also one Museluem missing in the base game. dont forget that.
@@MichaSenninwait I didn’t know what where can I find that info
@@eslur6691 dlc. second area.
So... After we defeat Messmer with the help of Hornsent, he says he's gonna hunt down the rest of Marika's offspring, and then later he invades us...
Does this confirm this theory??
Unless he just becomes batshit insane like Edgar or something...
No DLC spoilers in the video title, please respect that and tag your comment with a spoiler.
Hornsent specifically mentions Marika and her allies.
@@Myncu Sorry, but no. Too late.
It's already been a week since I posted this comment, I'm sure a lotta people already reached that point in the game anyway, if my comment spoils anyone's fun I apologize, but I'm not gonna edit it anymore.
@Northern14 Honestly, you didn't mention anything that spoils anyway. This video is interesting, but I think it's more likely that Messmer is the offspring being referenced.
@@rdbiv6874Nah, cuz it's a dialogue he speaks after we defeat Messmer. Though he did says denizen of Eldtree so that probably it.
“RADAGON! You’re son has returned! I bring the destruction of Leyndell!
I'm tempted to believe this theory if there wouldn't be some character class descriptions that defy that idea - some of our classes are descendants of the original first tarnished that were exiled alongside Godfrey. So the Tarnished that we see ingame are a future generation, which at this point, has no ties with anything that could have spawned from Marika at this time. The Tarnished are not THE Tarnished that first left the Lands Between. Our Tarnished is a successor and we don't know how many generations have passed ever since then and it is quite unlikely that Godfrey or Marika would have had any offsprings among them to reproduce futher. Vyke is another constant in the formula that defies the Demigod idea - Vyke could have become Elden Lord and he is no demigod at all. He's just like us - a pillaging Tarnished.
thats silly. Tarnished are immortal, there is no reason you are from a later generation, or that there *are* later generations of tarnished. Nothing indicates marika continued to make more tarnished, nor that the children of tarnished would be tarnished themselves.
@@DellikkilleD as far as i can tell most of the original tarnished were just, people who in some way worked under godfrey and previously did have grace. so even if there are more generations of tarnished, which i agree seems off, a very very wide variety of people could have qualified to become them, and it's honestly hard to come up with literally any explanation for the mausoleums even existing other than as a way to hit pause on certain people's resurrection cycles and/or hide them temporarily with that as an excuse. i legitimately cannot think of a single other thing in the whole game that even hints at why illegitimate demigods were going into the giant stone turtle instead being buried under space trees
@@DellikkilleDTarnished are not immortal. Without grace they don't have the immortality granted by the Erdtree.
Miyazaki himself has stated before the games release that the tarnished was a descendant of Godfrey so while this theory is neat, it doesn't really work
Godrick is the weakest demigod we fight, and the All-Knowing guy says that was a watered-down relation. So, it would make sense we could be a very weak/ young demi-god or distant relation to Marika and as we convert runes to strength, get gear, and find spells/ashes of way we are awakening some of our power.
Godrick was never born weaker than the other demigods, he simply didn't have the force of will to get stronger and use the maximum potential of his demigod blood, we are probably of even more diluted blood and yet by sheer force of will we are capable of surpassing all other demigods
all the other demigods were not born more powerful, they simply had the determination to become stronger and that is what they became, people believe that Godrick was weaker due to lack of divine blood but in reality what he lacked was determination
@@davisiotta489 This is head cannon. The game states he is of distant relation and his demigod blood is diluted.
@@pancakke08 I'm not saying he isn't, I'm saying people in the lands between think that's the reason when in reality he just doesn't really have the determination to get stronger
@@davisiotta489 Malenia was born powerful because God of rot so she got master who allowed her to control it, Morgott and Mogh got blessings from before Golden Order and only achieved things during shattering, Ranni was already into being chosen Emperyan, Rykard allowed himself to be consumed by the serpent, Godwyn was loved by everyone which probably boosted him greatly.
Though Radahann, Morgott and Godrick have one thing in common 3 of them wanted to prove themselves before their fathers.
The thing is Morgott and Radahann succeeded, Godrick didn't.
All tarnished are distantly related to godfrey / horah loux, margit the fell omen says "warrior blood must truly run in thy veins" Horah loux also refers to himself as "WARRIOR". The location that we are being awoken in looks like the inside of the erdtree, which makes sense, given we know that dead people's souls return to the erdtree in this world, but in this case instead of being reborn you were awoken from grace, meaning your soul walked out of the erdtree and returned to your body which remained at the chapel of anticipation. Inside the chapel is a dead maiden, likely the maiden meant to be your maiden, the church is also wrecked, and guarded by a grafted scion of godrick. I think that when the tarnished were expelled from the land between, our tarnished refused, instead deciding to take shelter in an isolated chapel with their maiden, thinking they would be safe but be allowed to remain in the lands between. However godrick sent out a grafted scion to enforce control over the chapel, being so close to stormveil, which then killed you and your maiden and continued to guard the location. When you are defeated by the scion or fall of the ledge, your body is then dragged either by the current or by godricks forces to be dumped into the fringefolk hero's grave. This is where Melina finds you. She likely see's potential in you based solely on the fact you survived all that alone, but she is still scepticle and it is more torrents (correct) intuition that convinces Melina to observe us from a distance. All of our unique strength, and our ability to face the demigods themselves, comes from her, lending her own ability to convert runes into strength to you. Melina is nigh confirmed to be a daughter of Marika in the dlc, so her ability to convert runes into strength is a demi-god trait to have and (at least for people who dont beat the game at level 1) is the only reason why we can face the demigods, that along with the grace of gold allowing us to come back to life over and over. All the other tarnished can only upgrade their strength by upgrading their weapons with the help of heugh, none of them have a spectral steed either. Basically we can thank Melina for our unique advantages, and we can thank torrent for having a hunch we were the right tarnished to lend it to. We can also thank Marika for giving Melina her purpose, telling her to find a worthy tarnished, and giving them the strength to become a new lord, and then sacrificing herself to allow the erdtree to burn. Marika likely gave Melina this purpose after the death of godwyn but just before the shattering of the elden ring, when Marika decided her order was broken and in need of change. If your wondering why Melina doesn't go around killing demigods herself, is because she is literally a ghost, she has no body, which is why she can only appear at graces, and probably why she feels no pain when she burns.
One thing tho, Melina allowed us to turn runes into strenght. Its not her ability to convert runes into strenght for us. If you go for the frenzied flame, she abandons you. She tells us she will kill us, for that its her responsiblity for allowing us to turn runes into strenght. This means, we turn the runes into strenght ourself. Either she showed us how it's done, or she unlocked it for us. Either way, she leaves and you still level up without her help.
Bro just make your own lore video at this point. Would watch
amazing comment dude
I would argue that we did start inside a mausoleum, the chapel of anticipation was probably one before it settled down, converting itself into the chapel after its mission to await for our revival was finished.
The Armor of Solitude from the Dlc says "The nameless mausoleums of the realm of shadow are said to hold the spirits of warriors who lost their names, or their hearts" so maybe the tarnished is from one of the mausoleums of the realm of shadow instead thoughts?
Maybe the theories about the old man in the DLC trailer were correct and Messmer is his child but as well as that we are also born from the old man and Marika. Potentially making the old man our father and Messmer our brother?
That would add even more to the fact that messmer seems to be the first true antagonistic for a souls protagonist in a game.
The audible gasp I gasped the Walking Mausoleum reference came together.
The head is very often referred to as the seat of the soul. A headless soldier would be that of a soldier who was given the gift of eternal rest while their body marched ever onward doing it's sworn duty.
It's very possible that we, as a player, become a soul able to revive one of these soulless demigods.
This. 👌
Kudos to Tomato-chan that theory has solid, stompy legs. It makes sense that the Mausoleums are making so much noise if the lost spirits have to hear it through the fog, and why the ones with bells can copy more rememberances.
The other things I know are that the mausoleums themselves are Nox-made. They're a dead ringer to the hanging sections in northern Nokron. Why would the Nox care about Marika's children? The Black Knives allowed demigods to die by killing Godwyn, and they are Numen which are (closely related to) the Nox. The Nox are looking for someone to replace Marika, as seen with the Mimic Tear. They might be holding onto demigods who were more aligned with their ideals that died in the shattering wars, to strengthen their claim in the next age and win back their night sky and the dark moon.
The Mausoleum knights & soldiers seem to be aligned, since they are found in the nameless eternal city in the largest numbers. We also find a lot of them in Liurnia where the moon and stars are very powerful, and on the mountaintops where astrology began. My current theory (haven't watched anyone playing the DLC) is that the eclipsed sun symbolizes the rebirth of the dark moon, which is of course what they're trying to do at Castle Sol.
So my head canon is that when Ranni takes us through her portal, the Eternal Cities are rebuilt and rise up to the surface to meet the dark moon in the sky while the Erdtree becomes just a husk like all the petrified trees found underground.
Takin into account GRR Martin, I wouldnt be surprised if the father was Mesmer lol
LMFAO
i mean we already have a pair of siblings who were born cursed - i can only assume they're some sort of divine birth defect from being selfcest babies
Or Godwyn.
@@azureascendant994but Godwyn is son of Marika
@@minhyeubanlamnha8112 GRRM has a lot of incest in his writing.
@@minhyeubanlamnha8112 So is Mesmer.
I always figured the tarnished were related to Marika via the offspring of the other demigods. Like I figured the demigods all had children throughout time with members of humanity, and their children had children with other men. At least a spark of divinity inhabits each tarnished, and it makes sense the tarnished were led by Godfrey out of the lands between to wage war until they were called back.
It’s actually really interesting that the only non-tarnished mob we can fight is Kenneth Haight. Maybe I’m forgetting others though.
I figured this out last night. If you watch the intro of the game, the narrator lists all of the bosses you’ll expect to fight and mentions that they’re all offspring of Marika and includes us the tarnished on that list. I came to the conclusion that I myself am also a Demi god.
This could set up some conflict between the tarnished and Miquella, if somehow the attempt to revive godwin resulted in the rebirth of the tarnished.
ARE WE GODWYN?!
@@thobycameron5308 We accidentally Godwyn 😮
But Godwyn is legitimate and beloved son of Marika. If we are rebirthed demigod why we got rebirthed from wandering mausoleum? What it has to do with actual Godwyns body buried under the Erdtree?
@@vsevolodpoddyh8191 If this unwanted demigod is soulless, and we are that demigod, either we never had a soul or we just sorta happened upon one. I don’t think it’s likely but it definitely isn’t impossible
Specifically, if there was an attempt to duplicate Godwyn’s soul that didn’t quite work out, it’s possible we ended up with it. Absolute unfounded speculation but a cool thought
@@zach4281 hahaha, I was mostly just trying to come up with something insane but I agree that it’s definitely not impossible.
This was an interesting theory. I hadn't really thought about it before but I find myself not really connecting to it. I never noticed the sounds you pointed out, that was really cool. I think I can explain them with a different theory, granted one with less lore implications:
Bells in the Lands Between are used in summoning rituals especially when dealing with the dead. I think the sounds we are hearing is a bell summoning us to the Lands Between. The cries we hear are our Finger Maiden. The "Stomps" are her killer trying to get into the chapel. Who knows how much time actually passes between us seeing that white light and us waking in the chapel but either way we wake arrive to late. Her killer has gotten in, killed her and closed the doors to hide their crime.
Warning incoming wall about why we can beat Demi-gods:
As too why we can beat demi-gods as a Tarnished has everything to do with runes. When we arrive in the Lands Between we are a full grown adult. Whatever role we picked we can assume we were at least average or a little less. The stats at the start of the game reflect the level of ability our character could achieve living in the regular world before they died. By this logic having your stats at "peak human" likely means having 20 in everything. The Greatsword's description reads "Though handling it likely requires the wielder to have surpassed the realm of the merely human, it is precisely for this reason the weapon is used to slaughter even inhuman foes." 31 strength, 31 strength means you have surpassed the realm of merely human. Moreover, the Great Runes are just larger pieces of the Elden Ring, the smaller runes we collect along the way come from the same source. As we level up the fragments of runes within us coalesce. Within us is a developing great rune of our own that we are feeding by leveling. The Duskborn quest shows that a broken rune, even a great one, can be rebuilt in a different configuration. Goldmask shows us that nonDemi-god people can create "mending runes" which is basically just a great rune covered in rune glue. Our rune isn't externalized into the ring in any ending because we are alive and need it and perhaps don't have the knowledge of how to wield it. This can be used to explain Radagon's Great/mending? rune since we know there was definitely a point when the Elden Ring did not have the trellis pattern. Radagon's rune is in the Elden Ring now because of his merger with Marika. So, by the end of the game we are a Demi-God in the same way that Godfrey became the first Demi-god (see Godrick Great Rune for text about Godfrey's status as first) we internalized a huge mass of runic power.
I can't wait for the DLC to come along prove us all wrong lol
One reason we could just not spon in a mausoleum is that that door acted like a teleport gate, and teleport us to where our maiden would’ve waited for us
Crazy way to spell spawn
Maybe im crazy but the banner at 9:28 could be representative of a beheading. What would a guillontine look like from the front. Blood dripping down and a circle hole where the head is placed.
Also the sounds remind me a lot of the sounds we get on new areas or on graces and when we die. Could be just them reusing sounds, but the sounds we get when we die being the same as a mausoleum sound may hold a lot of meaning.
Headlessness, I think is a precaution against deathblight. Runes make eyes glow, right? Deathblight is fragments of the Rune of Death. Deathblight builds up in the eyes and leaks like we see in the opening with Godwyn.
These mausoleum demigods were entombed before Godrick played with Godwyn’s living corpse. So they did not know you just had to remove the eyes to avoid deathblight forming.
Of course, there’s also a difference between soulless because the soul is dead inside a living body and soulless because there is no soul present in the living body.
I don’t articulate at the moment, hopefully this makes sense.
Nothing in the game really indicated that Godrick did anything with Godwyn's body but yeah.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 oh, I know.
My thought is as follows: Godrick is obsessed with the strength and approval of his ancestors but he is a weak and pathetic dumb dumb.
Godfrey, the first and greatest of his idols, achieved greatness through the Crucible. He may know of Morgott, or at least sees Margit, an omen, as an incredibly strong figure, an omen. Omen have Crucible features.
The Crucible is known for that whole “blending of life” thing. Knowing his bloodline was stronger in the past, Godrick obtained a bit of Godwyn that was not yet infected with Deathblight. (I suspect Morgott brought it to him in order to use Godrick as a test subject while studying deathblight. Morgott does not guard Godrick, he guards an experiment)
This bit of Godwyn grows and, as Godwyn was alive during or near to the age of the Crucible, he uses Godwyn’s living corpse’s sinew to perform his vile grafting as a crude mockery of the blending and strength associated with the Crucible.
Also, Morgott’s experiment in Stormveil reveals that deathblight does not form in a soulless living corpse if they eyes are removed.
It is speculative, I know. I imagine that understanding how deathblight works would be crucial to stopping it.
Soulless living corpses come in two varieties, dead soul and absent soul. At first, they did not know there was a difference. They saw Godwyn and noticed his head oozing deathblight juice. So they determined it forms in the head.
Mausoleum demigods were beheaded.
Morgott figures out it’s the eye, not the whole head.
I can’t readily recall why I think there is a difference between dead and absent souls but it seems that the thing in the cocoon has its eyes removed and I believe there is no soul in the body.
I wonder if in Elden Ring something could be alive without having a soul. It would be somewhat ironic if that's the case, because that would make the real world (where we probably do not have such things as souls) more interesting in some respect than this fantasy rpg.
@@Nexus-jg7ev Godwyn’s is a living, soulless husk. His body still lives.
D and D share the same soul but it only inhabits one at a time.
I say that it is possible to live sans soul.
My crackpot hypothesis was just that we were directly chosen by the Greater Will, with my only piece of evidence being that we are the only _Tarnished_ that can respawn endlessly, even after dieing to Maliketh, who literally wields a permadeath blade. Of course, this is, most likely, entirely disproven by the fact that you can choose to burn the world down in defiance of the Greater Will, so my hypothesis is nothing more than a neat idea at most.
The Frenzied Flame, like all other Outer Gods, is just an aspect of the Greater Will, specifically it's self doubt about whether life is a good thing after all this fucking bullshit it's had to deal with. Bascially, that ending is letting the Intrusive Thoughts win.
We are indeed can't die, but die countlessly ingame is not canon in my opinion. The game implies that our tarnished never lose a single battle throughout his journey to become the elden lord. That's how strong he is. That's why the community treated tarnished like some weak little turd is cringe in my opinion. We projecting our failure onto him literally.
The only die shown in the game is when we fall from the church of anticipation in the beginning. We are supposed to defeated grafted scion and dies by falling off of cliff, not by that scion. The ocean drifts our bodies from liurnia to limgrave
The greater will has chosen you, but you, the tarnished still have free will.
@@chakravartin3356 That's not true. The tarnished dying countless times is cannon. Tarnished blessed by the guidance of grace are effectively immortal, but many tarnished lose sight of the grace, which we know from lots of dialogue with many tarnished npcs. Just like hallowing in DS people lose hope and the will to press on and continue their journey eventually losing the guidance of grace. If you think about it from the perspective of the actual character player instead of YOU the player it makes more logical sense. The character is a nobody, chosen by grace, to kill literal gods and famed demigods with unimaginable power, dying over and over to what would seem insurmountable odds anyone in their right mind would give up or just not bother.
@@Apathetic2624 yeah, but remember, Tarnished like D has lost his grace long before we met him, but he is already know as one of the most famous in our era. How do you think people like D becoming famous if not for survive long enough without grace? We died countless time was never mentioned in the game, and most Tarnished are all ordinary people but some still can stand up against demigods or someone with god relation such as Vyke. Also, if you realize it, our Tarnished learnes some of the most powerful sorcery in an instant, like Rennala full moon sorcery, which she herself created that spell by encountering the moon itself when she was young and no sorcerer can copy that except us, lol, a sorcery that makes her the leader of the academy is just a plaything to our tarnished. That's totally a feat no human do
Maybe the starting area is a older mausoleums, as you progress through the game you can find the mausoleums change by becoming more aggressive and etc. That means the walking mausoleums are evolving. The staring area could be one of the first mausoleums that evolved to the point were in no longer needs to be mobile. This process would most likely take a long time, so if this theory is true, than the player would most likely be one of her first illegitimate children.
We expressly are told that we came to the Lands Between from outside so the starting location isn't where we awoken, it's just where we entered the Lands Between from. It is possible that there are mausoleums outside the Lands Between though, so the theory still holds.
I open-mouth gasped when your point dawned on me. Listening to the mausoleum and the game intro, i'm amazed at your keen hearing, in addition to your knowledge of Japanese. This is Theory crafting here. Amazing work.
maybe "our" father is the guy in the chapel of anticipation? the huge statue with the tree staff and head decoration that looks towards the statue of marika? i dont think i've seen his statue anywhere else in the game..
Why would there be a statue of our characters father in the chapel?
@@certifiedcib7958 well... if marika is the mother why would there be a statue of hers there too?
@@valdoryn2709 because she’s the god of the realm?
@@certifiedcib7958 i dunno man id give anyone able to bang a 9ft tall literal goddess a freaking statue as well
In the chapel of anticipation, above the door way is a motif of a group of women doing multiple things surrounding a figure. That is our character.
I always found it interesting that the player can use larval tears at all. Maybe that's a kind of hint as to who the father might be.
Who?
We can explicitly only use them because of Renallas Great Rune.
It also states in the cinematic opening “Arise now tarnished, ye dead who yet live”
7:09 saw a theory about this, that if you look around in that room apparently the furniture is the same as in the eternal cities, which are known for trying to create artificial life so maybe it was marika trying to make artificial demi gods
When i heard the second stomp it clicked and my mouth literally fell open like a cartoon character
I've heard similar takes on this theory. Another one being that Miquella is the 1 who created us. And that's why torrent chose us
also the eclipse is related to miquella so idk
Now that we know the info of Marika's backstory with the DLC, I am personally of the conviction that Marika mostly didn't have children the regular way, instead she splits parts of herself that were the result of the amalgamation of life that was stuck in the Jar where she was born from. This would explain why these ilegimate children are souless and unwanted by her, and why they have no known father.
Ah, the Unnamed. I can be of use, I think. If you have the paitence to read through context, then here you go.
Keep in mind that much of Marika's actions were in facilitating the Greater Will, and that the Greater Will is a malicious parasite dead set on feeding upon unending life, to the detriment of all who live.
Keep in mind also that Marika was originally a numen, the same race as the Nox, and therefore likely the same race as the Gloam-Eyed queen. It's early to speculate given the DLC hasn't cone out yet to confirm what species the Gloam-Eyed queen was, but my intuition tells me that the GEQ and Marika were related - maybe even sisters. Maybe twin sisters. Who knows, only that the GEQ and Marika were both empyreans in the age of the crucible. GEQ was the holder of the rune of death, and Marika was seduced by the GW with the promise of eternal life and bounty. It's a tale as old as time, really.
Insofar as the unnamed mossoleum Demi-Gods are concerned, we can stipulate the following:
1. Marika had doubts about the golden order, which is identified by some of her speeches, namely the "the days of blind faith are long gone" and "I shall search the depths of the order" lines. This shows that she had begun to plot against the Greater Will before Godwyn's death. It's possible she did so long before, keeping in mind the timeline. It is unclear exactly when her doubts turned to action, but Godfrey is a good example of the turning point. Godfrey was a tool that Marika used in blind faith to the Greater Will's plans, that is, until she took that step in her long game by banishing Godfrey and his armies (who would have been The GW's tools by proxy). It's furthermore likely that Radagon (being the fanatic) was a creation of the Greater Will, perhaps at the behest of Marika originally (this being parallel to the concept of Rubric, which the three seemingly are based on). Radagon, at that point a free and separate entity, married and neutralized Rennala. The Greater Will, through Marika, beckoned its creation return home. Radagon, originally a simple warrior, had become enamored in incantations (GW order) while married, and so was likely brought to heel by the GWs religious seduction. Returning to the rubric concept, at some unidentified point, two became one, and so the GW further bent its vessel to its absolute will. Still, the fire of rebellion inside Marika resisted, and did not die out. In continuing her long game, she warns cryptically that should her children fail, they shall be sacrificed.
2. The rune of death was removed upon the creation of the golden order - which was the Greater Will's *will*, not Marika's. We know the greater will gives shadows to it's vessels, as evinced by by Blaith and Ranni. Despite Blaiths loyalty, he was there to enforce the GW - so too would Maliketh serve this purpose. We know the GW hates destined death, so Maliketh was scaled appropriately to safeguard it. To upend the source of the Greater Wills power and restore the power to kill a god, it is likely that Marika facilitated its being stolen through Ranni. Keep in mind that the black knife assassin's, and furthermore the Nox, are Marika's people, the former serving her and the later being her cousins, if not kin (The Nox and Numen are related). Ranni doesnt even know how to get to Noxstella. So, Marika plots to reintroduce death. Her unnamed Demi-God children were the planned sacrifices that she was willing to make, and so orchestrated the night of the black knives. Ranni would take the blame, Marika would trick the GW and move forward with her bid to freedom. A brilliant element in a larger plan from a clever woman, but like all plans, it doesn't always happen according to the letter.
It's unexplained how Ranni came to know the lore of the rune of death, and how by killing herself at the same time as another god would have its effect (bodily death for her, soul death for godwyn), but it is clear that Ranni has no love for Marika - Marika, after all, destroyed her mother's mind. It is possible that the witch who taught ranni her spellcraft was as nox/numen, and may have been a loose end that failed to be purged. Perhaps said witch served the GEQ, and so was able impart that knowledge to Ranni. At any rate, we know the assassin's were successful in their heist, and many Demi-Gods were killed on the night of the black knives. If Ranni had played along, a simple misdirection (Godwyn being tricked into being in the wrong place at the wrong time) would have been sufficient to kill Godwyn. Its interesting that the stipulation about this method of killing empyreans with the rune of death is that the two must die at the same time in order for the result to be halved. And so, under the full moon, they held him down and carved the rune of death into his back. They left, figuring his death was just the same as the others. As far as they were concerned, they knew where he'd be at a specific time. They didn't know what their handiwork would cause. Elsewhere, under the full moon, Ranni had her back ritually cut as well (I suspect Iiji performed this), killing her bodily.
The night is a success. Marika has eradicated demigods, and proven that even a shard of destined death is sufficient for her purposes (creating a weapon to slay a god, or perhaps her shadow). But wait, Godrick and Godefroy are alive? I imagine her heart pounding and her cheeks burning as she immediately realizes something is terribly wrong, for indeed it is. Her beloved golden child, Godwyn, is dead. In a mother's terrible anguish and rage, she overpowers radagon and destroys the elden ring. The GW knows. Radagon attempts to repair it, exerting control once more for its master. Deep inside, Marika's broken spirit looks to her failures and perhaps tastes the bitterness of her GIGANTIC hubris for the first time. Perhaps she thought of the gloam eyed queen (her sister?) for the first time, really and truly, for a long time. Either way, Radagon cannot repair it, try as he might. For this, they are crucified on the rune arc looking thing inside the erdtree, officially discarded by the GW, who seeks a new vessel.
The DLC trailer clearly shows Marika creating the Erdtree in its current form. While debated that the GEQ is featured, if the theory is correct that she is there, then Malenia saying her mother is at the foot of the Erdtree gives credence to Malenia being the daughter of the GEQ. If so, it's likely that the shattering of the ring released the spirit of the GEQ. I could keep going, but, to summarize: Marika tries and fails to usurp the GW after orchestrating the night of the black knives. Our unknown demigods, the worthless lot or descended, are killed. Ranni disappears, and Godwyn, beloved Godwyn, is dead.
If we are one of them, well, shit.
Its a shame the DLC has rendered all the theories in this post null and void. Would need drastic reworking at the very least.
@izaakaz6863 That's the fun of it. I wonder now if Melina, being the likely firstborn daughter, was an empyrean and got put down early on in the timeline for rebellion. That new item description "like his younger sister, messmer bore a vision of fire" gives a lot to consider, especially considering that the GEQ's primary source of power was black/ghostflame, and her closed eye is literally the beast eye, tying her near and neatly to the concept of death. Maybe her rebellion was against Marika's removal of death specifically. Lots to think about
The Greater Will isn't responsible for the inability to properly die that we see in the world, that is specifcally Marika's fault from when she pulled the Rune of Death/Destined Death out of the Elden Ring in a bid to break the power of the Godskin's as their black flame is related to the RoD/DD. Things were able to die during most of ER's history, else Godfrey could hardly have waged succesful, genocidal wars against the giants, beastmen, and Placidusax, let alone the later war with the ancient dragons that left Gransax's corpse standing in Leyndell. Your theory is interesting, but that's a significant issue in your conception of it here
Why? A crown is warranted with strength. Fated to be the one because you're Marika's child is not as satisfying as being a tarnished of no renown who gains a crown through sheer overwhelming strength. But it's a very interesting theory.
Its definitely not true. This is one of the least evidenced and most far reaching theories I've heard.
There's precedent for demigods being weak, and I very heavily doubt that divine heritage alone would make you powerful. There is also Marika's message to her children(8:41), where she tells them to do as they wish, but threatens to forsake them if they fail to make something of themselves.
I think a god's blood grants not strength, but *potential.* Then again, Melina was the one who grants us the ability to level up.
@@daveski7 It's not that bad, it is true that there are far more mausoleums than known demigods which automatically suggests that there are many demigods we haven't met. Some weaker than others such as Godrick. Biggest hick up in my opinion is that you clearly don't start the game in the lands between.
The starting cutscene literally makes it known that we ourselves are destined for throne already.
I'd say the theory is that we were once a demigod, not that we currently are one. Those demigods who died in the shattering wars were forsaken and stripped of their renown, followed and remembered only by the mausoleum knights who entered limbo out of honour of the sacrifice. This still fits nicely into the existing theme of the lowly exile returning to prove themself against much greater foes.
You missed the opportunity to include Gideon’s line, “A Tarnished cannot become a Lord, not even you. A man cannot kill a god.”
I think that part was just him acknowledging our ability since we have done feats no other tarnished has ever done, but in the end we're all tarnished, and no mortals can hope to kill a god
That might mean that we are not just a mere tarnished and Gideon knows something about us (our godhood?).
Gideon should have done his homework because gods have been slain a lot in the past and its not the man who does the killing, its the weapon that kills and a max lv weapon has the power to harm and kill gods. Nerd aint even good at his gig
Well he was technically right. He, a man, couldn't kill me.
@@lexmortis5722Gideon the all-misunderstanding
Watching that opening cinematic so many times in this video, i was struck at the similarity of our Tarnished entering the light (of grace) to the DLC trailer's light of the Divine Gate.
This changes the game for me. It’s my head canon now and it actually makes me want to go through this game. When Elden ring came out I didn’t much like the setting, I preferred the more gothic/fire aesthetic. But this is growing on me.
My only problem with this theory is why our tarnished would begin with templates, like vagabond knight, badlands warrior, and have a race chosen, even numen, if he had demigod ties since the beginning? Besides, in no other moment of the cutscene, it is suggested that we are headless, like all the other souless mausoleum demigod. But, interesting theory nonetheless. I think it is a from software theme that even normal humans can achieve great things, with we persist in what we do, and not give up hope. Like the chosen undead not hollowing, or our tarnished not losing the guidance of grace.
Bc it’s a game, so it still needs to be practical. And the lore behind the classes point of being a demi god. Idk if the theory is good or not, but you have to take that into consideration that it is a game and needs game mechanics which means class templates
I think you can easily come up with a head cannon about how all the classes could fit given the illegitimate line. illegitimate children of nobility in history could not inherit anything so often went on their own paths in life to do different things, you could make the arguement for all the tarnished starting classes. ( Or maybe Wrech is just the cannon starting class)
Tomato-chan coming clutch with the lore theories 🍅
I also find it interesting.. that we don't start the game where we "start". The first steps was not out first steps. We started near stormveil... And we fall. Into some lowly graveyard.. but when we first wake up. We are in a grand tomb
Maybe that's what Gideon means when saying: a man can Not become/kill a God. Because He would have no idea that we might be more then just a normal tarnished? That's why we COULD actually do it?
I mean, you have the rune of death at that point, and even a weapon reinforced with a Dragon smithing stone, which can twist time and allow you to kill a god. So it's no surprise you can kill elden beast.
No he’s literally just wrong.
@@lucasotavio-i6v You don't kill Elden Beast. Marika and Elden Beast are heavily connected. If you don't get the Age of the Stars or Frenzied Flame ending, you can still see the ''Elden Beast'' inside Marika, because the Elden Beast is Elden Ring itself. You just shape the Elden Beast into another Order. And Marika shatters with Elden Beast. That's why at the trailer both Marika and Radagon shattered. Marika even couldn't kill Elden Beast as a God, it is not strange that we also can't kill it even if we are demi-god. Also, Marika's body shatters even more after your fight with Elden Beast. So, for you to be Elden Lord you need a god at your side, right? Marika/Ranni and Flame of Frenzy are the God candidates. The only God we killed was the Radagon.
First, before I begin, I believe the eclipse based on the banners of the mausoleums are the completed symbol of the rune of death, though I could be mistaken.
However, I would like to present another theory: The walking mausoleums house the soulless bodies of demigods, Godwyn the Golden's body has the rune of death to kill one's soul carved on the body of them, thus forcing his body unfit to house his soul any longer due to said rune.
When you cause a walking mausoleum to collapse and enter it, you can use the body to reclaim any of the souls of the demigods that you had used for experience, equipment, or skills, thus suggesting that even in their destruction, their sould could potentially inhabit another form and return as the rune of death is not established within the elden ring, though they may or may not be able to reatain their form in one way or another.
As for yourself, as Godwyn's body is unfit for use, the Tarnished is Godwyn The Golden reborn, albeit in a new and weaker body, and the only one who can tell and show interest in us is Torrent.
Thats interesting
Ranni was the first of the demigods whose flesh perished, while the Prince of Death perished in soul alone. -Cursemark of Death
This would explain why there's two mausoleums with no bells. First one was Vyke, who failed. Second is the player Tarnished.
This would actually solve Gideon's dialogue at the end. Gideon learned the truth, that no tarnished could become Elden Lord. He interpreted that as the tarnished having to struggle for eternity. But in reality you are no tarnished. And you DO become Elden Lord.
Okay, cool theory, but where's the empty Mausoleum that housed our flesh? Seems like a pretty glaring hole in the idea, even if the distorted noise is a perfect match
Could be in the shadow of the erdtree
@@ChickenBellagio I concur, but I was hoping for answers that draw from more than mere speculation
@@ChickenBellagio But that's not where we came from.
@@NerdOracleread a comment somewhere that said that the chapel of anticipation is called that because they are anticipating a demigod. We came from far away and our mausoleum as well
@@Kriggleton Seems far fetched that walking mausoleums exist outside the lands between. But may as well throw it on the pile
9:23 maybe the circle is supposed to represent a head and the lines going down is the blood from the head
Interesting to think of this that we were one of the soulless demigods and now we have a soul thanks to the player picking up the controller/ mouse, keyboard!
The Eclipse Shotel is the only weapon in ER that can inflict Death blight, a status effect tied to Godwyn the Golden, or rather his soulless corpse. The headless part and also the symbol of the Eclipse itself I interpret as something hidden. Again the soul, the decapitation could be the ritual to free the soul from the body, i.e. allowing the soul to wander or be reborn without the Elden Ring intervening. That could be the reason why these heroes or demigods are also decapitated. Maybe the Greater Will doesn't even want these children in its power structure, because they are a flaw, since they can reanimate themselves and reshape themselves just by passing time. If the Greater Will is order or stagnation, which is somehow symbolized by the sun. These children "can" be a change, which is symbolized by the Eclipse.
Also we saw in the DLC that Miquella got rid of his whole body to become a full god without any body. Maybe by this, other than by only decapitation his soul doesn't form a body like the tarnished do, but he stays formless without any binding to the physical world other than his consort. If you ask why Miquella and also Rani did go the extra mile to get rid of their entire body, it's because they are blessed by the Greater Will and would be reborn under its influence rather on their own accord. They are stuck in the cycle without going the extra stepp.
I think this is the secret that Miyazaki said that we were missing.
You just exploded my mind! Thanks for sharing!
Theory: The demigod is in the body of the tarnished who was in the chapel of anticipation.
So basically, this little theory solves two things.
1. The interactions between the tarnished and the other characters.
2. Why we actually hear the mausoleum sounds at the start
The dead demigod's soul possessing a random dead tarnished could be a lead on how the mausoleum demigods are going to be reborn. This makes sense because the mausoleum corpses are already destroyed way too much and what better way to be reborn rather than possess a random upcoming tarnished. This also tells us why most characters are so unmoved by us in the lands between, as if we are supposed to be here, unlike the dead demigods. The tarnished could be a ticket to rebirth for them