The Unseen Realm? | Doug Wilson
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- In this episode of Ask Doug, Pastor Doug Wilson answers the question, "Are you familiar with 'The Unseen Realm' and other works on angels and demons by Michael Heiser? What do you make of his stuff?"
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Not going to get more until you support the claim that his take on Calvinism was dumb.
One of the wonderful things Dr Heiser says is that if its in the bible, and it's weird, it's important.
I need to look into this
@@inkbythebarrelandpaperbyth6905 be ready to have your mind blown! Makes so much sense.
Yes, God preserved the entire Bible, He chose what's in it, so it's all there to be read and understood. Otherwise we'd just have the Gideon NT and Psalms if that was all that was important.
...and that is the exact opposite of what my Pastor says...he hates talking about the weird stuff...
@@anarchorepublican5954 lol, some people just don’t want the ‘weird’ stuff.. but the weird stuff always turns out to be extremely interesting to learn about.
Heiser and Wilson have been two of the biggest influences on me. It's fun to see Wilson talk about Heiser here
Interesting, as someone schooled in Calvinism for years, I found his chapter to be really helpful. He interacts with texts the way they are presented and not with how they fit into a theological system. Yes, there are more texts to interact with to get the full picture (or at least the part of the picture God has given us at this time), but often we forget that the Bible predates our systematic theologies and we read, often unwittingly, through some lense that blocks what is actually there. Removing the lenses is part of Heiser' project.
You're correct, but Heiser fails to rise up to the challenge. He does not remove his own lens in approaching the text in that Calvinism chapter.
I still can't grasp Calvinism. Too much tribulation and spiritual attacks to make me concede that I don't fit in the " God's elect" predestinated sphere of grace.
Heiser attacks conservative Lutheran traditions too. But I think I'll stick with my Wisconsin Lutheran Church.
Heisers teaching on "Finding Jesus in the Old Testament. " is pretty good.
Flanuer Record has the best 17 part teaching thru the book of Revelation.
Amen re:the chapter on Calvinism! It was that goofy Molinism, middle-knowledge garbage.
@@DanAndreiVladut interesting stuff. I have wanted to read this book for a while.
And myself who also was saved in a Calvinistic church, went to Southern seminary, (all profs have to be calvinists) and having gobs of other books and resources from Calvinism and supporting Doug Wilson and Canon I am even less convinced of singular presentation to salvation as the proper reading of Ephesians 1 and 2. Romans 9-11 has nothing to with Calvinism or actual Jacob and Esau and everything to do with nations of Israel and Edom. But anyway...I still love all of it. But I've heard the arguments.
The one thing I don't care for his responses like Doug's who say 'well you didn't interact with it well' or ' you don't understand Calvinism' that just makes all of us who did belong and adhere in the past look like idiots. And also God would be too if Calvinism were true because he determined me to accept it and then reject it, though I love the Lord Jesus even more than I did when I was a Calvinist. Hmmmm
@@servicetech8538 God's elect is more about understanding God than it is about whether or not you 'fit the glove'. We are to be reminded that no one fits the glove without Jesus Christ. However, I do sympathize with your statement.
I'm so pleased to hear this, Doug. Mike is an amazing, brilliant, and HUMBLE man.
Everyone here, please pray for Mike. He's not doing well at all.
As far as Calvinism, don't skip over that chapter. Don't be scared to read something that might go against your position.
For the life of me, IDK why any of us would take a label of "Calvinist." I never read about John Calvin in scripture.
Heiser moves beyond the denominational squabbles for the most part. He just sticks to scripture.
I can’t stand the Calvinist label. I doubt Calvin would have approved. It’s just what the Bible says.
Wilson was not suggesting to skip over the chapter because it would challenge us. He suggested to skip over it due to it not flowing well with the rest of the book and it also being a mischaracterization of Calvinism.
@Dakota Bledsoe okay!
I used to devour his content and I’ve learned a lot but he’s not that great of biblical theologian (like many scholars especially OT scholars) IMO. For him it’s mostly ANE context and 2nd temple context through which he interprets scripture. Not typology and the biblical canonical context. I believe the NT writers teach us how to read scripture and they see Christ and Satan etc. in OT scriptures where Heiser and other OT scholars don’t see it (I think in that respect they are definitely misguided) because they are committed to the critical and historical method (they have to if they want to be taken seriously in their academic field which is of course secular).
I did benefit from reading Heiser and his insights about the council, Sons of God etc. but I wouldn’t recommend adopting his overall method of reading the Bible. There are much better biblical theologians out there (theologians like Alastair Roberts or Peter Leithart and others) who interpret biblical passages based on biblical threads and not just the ANE context, so much more like the NT writers and that leads to a much more christian reading of the text and to a much greater connection between biblical books and an understanding of the great biblical narrative, the opposite of what is being done in many universities today where the Bible tends to get disjointed and not put together again (IMO Heiser operates in that world which is why he gets some things seriously wrong though he is definitely one of the better guys).
@Dakota Bledsoe LOL yep. I'm so tired of the denominational stuff I could scream. God couldn't be pleased. There are things about God that us mere mortals couldn't dream of understanding, and for me, that's ok. I think there are things that God chooses not to know, just my opinion.... like how he FORGETS our sin? God is sticking to His plan A and will steer everything towards His will. He obviously doesn't sanction evil. I've noticed with Calvinists, if you call them on any of their beliefs, they ALWAYS say "that's a strawman, you just don't understand," then they proceed to prove everything you just said. It's a very confounding position to take, and we know from scripture that God isn't the author of confusion.
I like this "new trend" of reading the Bible and ACTUALLY believing what it ACTUALLY says. It's positively revolutionary! 😄
As a former charismatic with reformish theology in a reformed culture, I really can see the two steps from the country club paradigm at work. Excellent.
Former? You can be both! Join the Truth and Spirit club ;) They go nicely together!
Also, I use the label “Calvinish” for myself 😄
Charismatic and hold to sola scritpura, and the doctrines of grace... yes! I hold to all.
I really enjoy Heiser’s work and his podcast, “TheNaked Bible.” Appreciate this, Uncle Douglas.
Literally just went down the youtube rabbit hole of Heiser today. Never heard of him before, and Doug covers it in today's video. Perfect Timing! Cant wait to hear what he has to say.
Edit: Back after watching. Weird Charismatic here; thanks for inviting me over to the campfire chat ;)
I found Michael S Heiser reading The Second Coming of the New Age. He wrote the introduction.
All of these guys including Mike build their theology on extra biblical writings while they all say they do not. Mike Heiser is an open theist and he has redefined a lot of things. He came up with all kinds of new views that no one before him did for 2000 years. A that is dangerous.
@@Vynachadzavy actually, not all this comes directly from Heiser. His objective is to bring scholarly studies of the Bible, his and others, to the average person. There is much that wasn’t know to men like Calvin and others would created these so-called theological systems. Many things were not considered by them.
@@herengone I am not saying that he is wrong on everything but that is exactly why he is so dangerous. How can a Calvinist with his very distinguished understanding of sovereignity of God embrace a guy who is open theist? Most of Heiser's ideas are not even coming for biblical canon but from many especially Gnostic ancient writings? A lots of ancient cultural and religious practices and beliefs he elevates almost to the level of inspired scripture. You people better open your eyes for crying out loud. This is really not that hard to see. Just take any few of his videos and it is right there.
@@Vynachadzavy To say Heiser raises Gnostic writings almost to inspired scripture is an exaggeration. Heiser clearly points out that the Bible writers often took known things pagans ascribed to their gods and attributed them to the One True God. As Heiser says the Bible was written for us but not to us. Early Christians knew nothing of Reformed or Arminian theology espoused in the 19th century. And, there is a reason the are two camps. I find some people very prideful in their theological view points. They get on their high horse when anything threatens their view point.
It was the apostle Paul who wrote about the simplicity that is Christ.
“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
II Corinthians 11:3 NKJV
By the way, I have the Kindle version of The Unseen Realm which is searchable. There are only 4 references to Calvin and they are in the footnotes at the end of the book. Only one reference to the word reformed and that is in one of the same footnotes. It merely makes the point that people who have read certain theological writings like Calvin have a hard time divorcing themselves from those ideas reading the Bible, meaning they come with presuppositions.
Also read Mike's book "Reversing Hermon." It'll blow your mind.
I was far less impressed with that one, and very irritated that the footnotes weren't under the running text and were in the back of the book instead.
Is he calvinist or
@@CEOofSleep No. He has lots of Calvinist friends, but no.
Is it about...Hermoneutics?
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
I agree with what he’s said about how oftentimes the reformed guys are a bit out of their element being contrarian and “weird”. I saw that in spades during 2020. Right off the bat, I saw the goings on in clear black and white relief, while sadly, I saw my own dearly beloved, wise, and faithful Elders asking us to sit one row apart and such.
It was a growth season where suddenly some of the carefully conservative minds needed to recognize a time and a place for being skeptical towards perceived “authorities”.
Dougs initial review was what promted me to pick it up years ago. Great book!
Btw, pretty sure the chapter isn't about calvinism, it's about free will. The role of the will is important to angelology.
😂😂😂 I’m a Pentecostal and I know what it’s like to be weird. 😂😂😂 love Doug.
Heiser promoted reading Jubilees & Enoch, noncanonical books of heresy. He also believed in the existence of many "gods". May God have mercy on his soul.
Jude quotes Enoch...
@@natedowney9590❤bless you!
I've been waiting for this
As Dr Heiser would say: if it’s strange, it probably important.
Exactly! And it should be researched
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
Love Heiser, love Wilson 🕊️
I'd love to hear Doug's take on the Enlightenment
I like Doug’s sound judgment on this.
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and more importantly, WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
What judgement and how is it sound without any argument.
The naked bible podcast and Mike's sermons are true content!
Yea. He teaches how to view scripture without loaded presuppositions and to read it in its intended context.
As a charismatic who reads after and regularly listens to Doug Wilson (and other reformed guys), I loved this video lol
Michael Heiser doesn't teach Global flood, teaches a localized flood
This is true.
Not that it's a deal-breaker, but that put up a red flag with me.
So hugh ross and john lennox, Did god flood mountain Everest?
@@JulianArmy1 one theory is that mountains are a result of the flood narrative.
Not sure, but I’ve been told there are clam fossils on Everest.
Absolutely relevant and honestly it makes me excited to re-read passages now with a new insights.
No, I'm not a denominationalist and honestly ,both Frank Viola's book, "Pagan Christianity?" And Heiser's "Unseen Realm" I see how distorted the church is with how we view the Bible and seeing who God really is.
As for the 'sons of god,' Heiser's work makes see the relevance of that line. We see it again in the new testament, "behold what manner the love of the Father hath given unto us that we shall be called,'the sons of God.'
We're (the ekklesia) are replacing the former entourage around the throne of God to sit in Judgment.
God's Son wasn't conceived in rape as alleged in Unseen Realm with the nephilim. He was emmuculately conceived. The other 'sons of gods' were the unholy seed and wiped out as Israel conquered the Holy Land. Their descendants were giants and once killed off their spirits couldn't go to heaven again so they were stuck on earth. These spirits were the demons Christ was casting out during his ministry.
They hated his disciples and the church. Why? Because we're their replacements in heaven. Heiser's work makes a lot of sense. Leastwise to me.
(If you understand the covid orchestrators you'll also note they worship the ancient gods in Hollywood and in their own distorted way are trying to usher in the antichrist.
Omicron variant was introduced 666 days after covid. "Omicron" in ancient sumerian translates to, "scorpion men."
Just saying
Occultists, secret societies, black budget departments, Jesuits, Jewish Kabbalah, many elites and world leaders, etc are all worshiping those ancient gods.
Whether it be through rituals/human sacrifice, pharmakia, or even possibly actual scientific methods at the sub-atomic level (CERN) they want the portals open and access to the gods, and the knowledge they can get and use for their purposes.
Including the genetic knowledge/manipulation that was so prevalent in the days of Noah and is on its way back into our world.
The last 150 years or so, the human activity in the supernatural realm has been escalating, and the results are manifesting themselves in our realm.
And they may not all realize they are drawing from the same power source, although many probably do.
And so while the end goal/result may be similar, each are probably trying to come out on the top end of the resulting power structure.
But in the end the consequences are the same, an increase in Satanic/fallen supernatural entities presence, influence, power, and control of our physical world.
Kinda ironic (actually not, it was by design) how the people who have deceived the world into believing in evolution and everything has a natural explanation are the ones who have the most knowledge and belief in the supernatural, albeit evil supernatural power.
But hey if they ever do decide to show their hand in a supernatural display, it will make it that much easier to fool people into believing that they are the true god(s).
Since many don’t believe in God or have a Biblical foundation, when their mind is blown, they’ll just accept that “this must be him.”
@@shannoncrawford7212 You gotta go burn that book of enoch mate its gone to your head.
At first I thought, this dude is watching Star Wars cultish stuff...that's weird....
Then I read the nonsense you wrote, now it make sense. The parallels in comprehension and "thinking" are outstanding...
What's emmuculately? By en Emu, late at nigh? Immaculately.
Did the Nephilim had laser sabers too?
@@shannoncrawford7212 You kinda make sense, in the weirdest most unfahomable way possible. Stop reading Jung please.
@@einarabelc5 cynics, gotta love them. quick to bash slow to think
For those that do read/watch Heiser, and start digging more.
I would recommend checking out Timothy Alberino.
He has a YT channel with good content.
And you can find him on other people’s podcasts/channels being interviewed or having discussions.
He has recently written a new book Birthright, I haven’t read it yet.
And one of his documentaries, True Legends: The unholy see, is available on Twitch.
His focus isn’t on OT scholarly work, but more on analyzing historical archaeological evidences and writings.
And what has been hidden from the masses in regards to our history, and how the supernatural interacted in our world.
He does delve into future ramifications and tries to connect where humanity/human power intersects with the supernatural in the present.
Which is somewhat speculative and does require a worldview of the future (which may not align with post-millennialism).
And he does believe that there was a lot of supernatural “activity” prior to man’s creation, but that the entire history of the universe is Christ-centered (not man-centered) and as a result actions in the supernatural order prior to our creation impact us.
And he believes that the genetic manipulation/transhumanism we currently see and are speeding toward, plays a big role in our future, just as it did in the days of Noah.
As always test the spirits, but from what I have seen he is doctrinally sound.
And works to explain what he knows/believes about ancient history (and more recent supernatural phenomena/events) within the Biblical framework and Christs redemptive work.
NYSTV/Midnight Ride, and Trey Smith (God in A Nutshell) are a couple others in the same vein.
But again there is a lot of current event/future speculation on those channels, but they also stay within a biblical framework in explanations, and remain sound doctrinally and Christ centered.
Obviously, no one will agree with all of their beliefs or conclusion, but still can gain insights.
Heiser's research seems to pair well with Christian identity too
I really appreciate the point about liberal scholars as sometimes taking the text more seriously and face-value, even thought they may be dismissive thereof. This is why I read unbelieving a liberal scholars often; their lack of fear often provides insights into the text that more conservative believing scholars are afraid to make.
Thanks very much! I was hoping to hear thoughts about Dr. Heiser’s work!
I’m a former charismatic who now goes to a biblical church that teaches Calvinism (although I very much disagree with them on that) I really like to see calvinists and charismatics praising each others work. We need to unite around the gospel, we may disagree on other things, but we actually don’t disagree on much, love my reformed brothers and non Calvinist brothers alike.
Very good talk. Thanks Doug!
May the Lord return! Amen. God is merciful. He always forgives. Never be ashamed to take your failures to him. He is for you, not against you! God is with you in the storm. He knows your troubles, he hears you! He is for you, on your side, always! It may feel silent at times, but he’s holding you close! May the Lord return soon! We are drawing closer. He is coming! Believe and trust in the Lord, you will be saved. Period. May the Lord bless you all! Hang in there family. Stay strong. It is not easy following the Lord. We are scoffed at. We give up our earthly dreams, our fleshly desires. What the enemy offers is short lived, but heaven is forever! Life may seem or be unfair, but God is with you! Always remember that. Things may get better or worse for you, but a kingdom awaits you! Finish the race! Repent daily and carry your cross. This world is fading fast. Your troubles are temporary! New channel here, I’d appreciate any kind of support. Don’t give up! God loves you so much! So do I. The Lord bless you!
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and more importantly, WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
It is a good book... Well worth reading.
Thank you for this!! ‘The Mike’ is a very honorable man! I’d love you two to interact.
This is such an inside joke for Heiser fans. I love it! Well done 😂
@@goaliemelvin Lol. I call us heiser heads
Knowing full well I will receive a lot of fire from the Heiser fan-boys, I would seriously caution anyone reading Heiser. Some of the dangers, in particular, is that he interprets Scripture through the lens of ancient pagan beliefs, as if the ignorant, foolish, mystical beliefs of ancient pagans taint the trust-worthiness of the Scriptures. He rejects the infallibility of Scripture. He rejects penal substitutionary atonement. He is a strong critic of Reformed theology (and by strong, I mean he is strongly against it, but as Doug says he doesn't know what he's talking about and engages in a lot of straw-manning). Heiser may be *interesting* to read, but he is textbook "going beyond what is written". It's a journey that starts with a passage of Scripture and launches into a bunch of wild speculations and myths. It reminds me of 1 Timothy 1:4, which tells us not to "pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith."
And perhaps the most alarming of all, which I have seen asserted by his disciples, is the idea that you cannot "truly" understand the Gospel unless you understand his teaching on the "unseen realm".
So I would seriously approach his work with a critical eye. I do wish Doug would have been a bit more measured in his endorsement.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
I was just thinking the other day , "I would like to get someone's opinion I trust , about Heiser. Thanks
One of the greatest blessings I've received from the Lord is letting the Bible speak for itself. I read it as it is, not how I want it to read, not how anyone tells me it should read. And, I've always looked at scripture this way.
I believe this was made possible because of God, and also because I rarely attended church.
To be totally honest - I never much trusted Christians. Even though I am one (don't trust myself all that much, either 😄😉). Whenever I was around them I always thought "NO ONE is THAT good".
With 30 years of hindsight I now see, the church teaches you how to ACT like a Christian, not how to BE a Christian.
Big difference!!
"the church teaches you how to ACT like a Christian, not how to BE a Christian." This is one of the best comments ever.
Heiser is a flaming arminian. I am shocked Doug approves.
There are elect Arminians, and there are Calvinists who choose Christ.
Thanks to my parents having an interest in spiritual warfare and a class I had on Angleology in college I had a better grasp of biblical cosmology than most people I know, but it was Heiser's fuller elucidation of biblical cosmology that actually made it possible for me to accept Doug's arguments for postmillennialism. Before hearing Heiser, Doug's arguments didn't convince me to give up Premillennialism. They sounded hopeful and inspiring, but didn't seem to me to fit the whole counsel of scripture; but once Heiser described how Yahweh and Jesus engage in territorial warfare, that Him claiming physical ground has cosmic significance, then I literally shouted out in a burst of epiphany, "Oh, then I'm post mil!"
Wait Angelology is real thing lol?
I very much enjoyed the chapter on Calvinism...
Me too
Thanks Doug Wilson - this is useful
The arrogance of how Heiser was dismissed was painful to hear.
Very interesting conversation, particularly in regards to the interdenominational differences.
We are meant to be as one body.
I’ve always understood difference would exist in the church due to varying inflections and emphasises on secondary issues; but the downright judgemental and often hostile exclusivity of some is (I believe) abhorrent to God, divisive within the church universal, off putting in the extreme to non believers and contrary to God’s will and therefore not reflecting either His plan nor His nature.
This was such a useful video. I secretly watch and love Michael S. Heiser's videos and, as a five-point-Calvinist myself, I feel kind of guilty for watching Dr. Heiser's stuff (he is obviously not a Calvinist). I remember thinking to myself "oh, there is so much to learn here" every time I saw one of Dr. Heiser's videos. Thank you pastor Wilson.
What? Secretly? Guilty? Trying not to offend your Calvinistic superiors?
Doug reads non calvinists all the time
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Trying to keep the doctrine clear.
@@michelnarvaez2615
And by clear you mean Calvinistic. That’s not keeping scriptural doctrine clear, that’s avoiding theology that disagrees with your presuppositions. Only someone who legitimately seeks truth will cover all corpus of biblical writing without guilt.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Here's Scripture for you:
Total Depravity: (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).
Unconditional Election: (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12; 1 Kings 19:18).
Limited Atonement: (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).
Irresistible Grace: (John 6:37, 44; 10:16).
Perseverance of the Saints: (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).
There is a lot more scripture to support Calvinism, but I don't have the time. Besides, I'm not in the business of arguing with my brothers and sisters in Christ (I assume you are one).
That's a very interesting point at the end, it makes sense. Someone who affirms Scriptural Inerrancy is (rightly) bound to affirm what the Bible says as true. But that then may lead them to color what they believe the Bible is saying by what they already think is true. "Of course this passage should be interpreted to mean X, because X is true and the Bible is inerrant so of course it must align with what I 'know' (believe) to be true!".
Now that I think about it, I have seen this play out from Christians with all sorts of positions.
It's the only point worth listening to, the rest was rubbish.
The Chapter on Calvinism is great.
The Bible also teaches that the earth is founded on pillars, doesn’t move, and is enclosed by a tent shaped firmament. Is affirming that spiritual push-ups as well?
All of that is true from our perspective. It doesn't scientifically state those things are the case as brute facts.
@@joshf2218 well played.
I do not know of this author or his writings, but I do know that the Lord God created the Heavens and the Earth in the exact manner the Holy Bible said he did because God cannot lie. Furthermore, I know that the earthly powers have lied to us about everything. I look forward to the day when history books will no longer be nothing more than story books. Thank you again, Pastor Wilson, and may the Lord our God bless and keep you!
If I could sum up Heiser in one sentence it would be "did God really say?"
@@UnderTheFloor79 yep. Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
@@subrje5546Why? He does not deny any of the major tenants of the faith.
The obvious bias of saying it's really good and scholarly except the part where he disagrees with me is hilarious
I do wish the Pentecostals spoke more on this subject when I went to church. I think they were embarrassed by it, like you said. I also didn't hear the classic Moses and the flood, David and Goliath stories too in church, I think because they thought they'd be discrediting themselves talking about those bible stories.
I'll bet you'd be interested to know that all humans have mitochondrial DNA from one of three haplogroups, conveniently coded L,M,N, with the region of intersection being southwest Asia. This is because all humans have mtDNA from one of the three daughters-in-law of Noah.
Another great resource that's maybe a bridge between Heiser and some of the more mainstream guys is Tim Mackie from the Bible Project. His stuff is exceptionally rich.
And his visuals are amazing!
Just know that he has taught against the biblical, orthodox view of hell, as well as Christ’s penal substitutionary atonement.
@@davidrussell631
Are you a Protestant or a Catholic?
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Evangelical Protestant
@@davidrussell631
Then none of your doctrines beside the trinity are orthodox
I HAVE LEARNED SO NUCH WITH DR HEISER THAT ALMOTH NOONE ELSE WILL EVAN TRY TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE , I LOVE HIS WORK IT IS WHAT I HAVE BELIEVED A LONG TIME
I DO NOT LIKE WHEN PEOPLES TRADITION SAY'S THAT WRONG , CATHOLIC IS A BIG PROBLEM AS I WAS ONE
I actually don’t like Heiser. I really wanted to, but whenever I read him, he seems to be very influenced by secular scholarship which reads pagan beliefs into the Bible and fails to see the Bible, and the Israelite culture, as having its own distinctive view on the subject. Heiser seems to get that on a certain level but still seems to publish sloppy takes which include way too much secular thought.
The Bible provides a spiritual worldview. If you are living in the east like I do, you'll need the biblical spiritual worldview to confront the eastern spiritualism. Heiser's work is very important in this context. For some from the west it may seem irrelevant, that's because they do not have the eastern context
@@princens350 I don’t think it’s irrelevant. That’s why I was enthusiastic to get into Heiser’s work. I just think he does a poor job at it in what I’ve encountered with him. He also dismisses church history while elevating secular takes on pagan culture. His methodology is just poor.
I agree completely that he reads the Bible through a pagan culture lens. He also interprets the Bible through a theological lens that is not Orthodox Christian. He interprets certain passages by discounting options because they infer that God infringes upon man or angels free wills in some way. He believes in freewill (God can't obstruct or impede any choice we make) throughout our life. Even Arminians don't take freewill to this extreme. They believe in a freewill choice for salvation but believe in the Sovereignty of God over our choices throughout life like Calvinists do. Heiser is like the open theist in this belief. He differs from open theism in that he believes somehow in the end God will bring about his will but without impeding freewill without explaining how. This is very close to open theism with "sovereignty backloaded" to just the end of time to fulfill prophecy in Scripture. Heiser also does not believe in Original sin or predestination. By those definitions, he could be defined a pelagian heretic. Why would Doug Wilson endorse him?
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
Re: Okay sans Calvinism chapter - I think Doug is missing the broader implications here. Most (all?) Calvinist view God as the only libertarian free being. Thus, a Calvinist overlay would have other (lesser) elohim’s actions forced/determined. While I suppose in theory it is possible to have these concepts function together, it really doesn’t seem to mesh with the divine counsel view that Heiser lays out. Heiser states at the end of Ch 7 “The choices made by human and nonhuman begins described in Genesis 3 were neither coerced nor needed by Yahweh for sake of his greater plan.” Nor would Calvinism fit Heiser’s man in the image of God view expounded on in Unseen Realm.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
I am releived that Pastor Wilson looked favaoably on Dr. Heiser in general. I would have been sad if he had not. I just recently was referred to Pastor Wilson's podcasts and the first one I listened to had the reference to the "Brave, brave Sir Robin contingent." I instantly had a man crush on Pastor Wilson.
However, I also find Dr. Heiser a fantastic help in creating a framework for bibiocal understanding, so I would have been greatly saddened he had not likewise appreciated Dr. Heiser's work. As for the comment on the Calvinism, I will have to re-read that chapter. But, these sorts of disagreements don't bother me. I personally am working to articulate my belief on this topic, so contrary views on this are actually helpful. My man crush can survive this.
But he uses the Book of Enoch which has many issues. Heavily.
People who attack Calvinism have an odd tendency not to know what it is. See: Chesterton.
That’s what Calvinists say when ever someone offers a legitimate critique of Calvinism. The teaching is just not in scripture.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 That's a proposition, not an argument.
Also, the book of Romans is pretty straightforward.
@@robertlewis6915
Yes it is;
_“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, _*_The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in._*_ Well; _*_because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith._*_ Be not highminded, but fear: For _*_if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee._*_ Behold therefore the goodness and _*_severity of God: on them which fell,_*_ severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: _*_otherwise thou also shalt be cut off._*_ And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: _*_for God is able to graft them in again._*_ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”_
Romans 11:17-25 KJV
Oh! You wanted Roman’s 9? I was under the assumption that chapter and verses didn’t exist when Paul wrote this letter.
You’re most certainly correct. Everything in the above passage demonstrates the opposite of what Calvinists teach specifically in regards to salvation and man’s ability to respond to god’s grace on his own volition.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 Except that passage isn't talking about personal salvation? It's talking about the gentiles being grafted into Israel's tree and Israel's apostates being cut off from it.
" So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" Romans 11:11-12
He's clearly NOT addressing personal salvation; instead he's addressing the favored status of Israel and how it was lost, or rather opened to the whole world.
(Are you arguing against predestination, the doctrine of the elect, or the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints? I'm unclear.)
What about Romans 3?
9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
^How can man be a participant in his own salvation?
(Doctrine of the Elect and the Radical Depravity of Man)
what about Romans 8?
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died-more than that, who was raised-who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
^What can pry man free from God's grasp? His own actions? I'm pretty sure that 'anything else in all creation' covers that.
(Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints)
Does not 'elect' imply that God chose us and not we ourselves? (predestination)
As a side note, if God created the world, how can it be anything but predestined? He set up the start condition; even if He were somehow conformed to the Deistic model, that would effectively predestine all that happened, barring something not under His sovereignty intruding. And if you're arguing that ANYTHING is not under God's sovereignty, we've got bigger fish to fry here.
Micheal Heiser is very intelligent and I recommend checking his stuff out.
Thanks. I’ve enjoyed Michael Heiser’s podcast. 💪🙏🙏
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
@@ThePriestofYahuahYahushah Quit spamming this.
When ever people try to put God "in a box" He just busts out.. The entire universe can not hold Him let alone your tiny theorm.
I've been pretty wary of Michael Heiser, but maybe I'll give The Unseen Realm a read.
It's amazing. Don't be wary of him. He sticks with scripture alone.
What he says actually goes along with top philosophical arguments for God. It goes back to God being the first cause, but angels and humans possibly aren’t the next cause. God created other lesser Gods and God and the lesser gods creates humanity together. The lesser Gods are also given part dominion over the earth which actually accounts for a stronger moral argument for Christianity.
I'm afraid the Doug hasn't done enough research on this.
While the concepts that Michael Eisner brings up are certainly true the man himself has a clear ulterior motive. He is reintroducing Angel and Demon worship with all the subtlety of the Father of Lies.
Study the subject but beware of the man.
I used to devour his content and I’ve learned a lot but he’s not that great of biblical theologian (like many scholars especially OT scholars) IMO. For him it’s mostly ANE context and 2nd temple context through which he interprets scripture. Not typology and the biblical canonical context. I believe the NT writers teach us how to read scripture and they see Christ and Satan etc. in OT scriptures where Heiser and other OT scholars don’t see it (I think in that respect they are definitely misguided) because they are committed to the critical and historical method (they have to if they want to be taken seriously in their academic field which is of course secular).
I did benefit from reading Heiser and his insights about the council, Sons of God etc. but I wouldn’t recommend adopting his overall method of reading the Bible. There are much better biblical theologians out there (theologians like Alastair Roberts or Peter Leithart and others) who interpret biblical passages based on biblical threads and not just the ANE context, so much more like the NT writers and that leads to a much more christian reading of the text and to a much greater connection between biblical books and an understanding of the great biblical narrative, the opposite of what is being done in many universities today where the Bible tends to get disjointed and not put together again (IMO Heiser operates in that world though he is definitely one of the good guys).
Brian Hale what do you mean by reintroducing Angel and demon worship? Im genuinely interested in how you concluded that after reading his book or books.
It's kinda of a rabbit trail I think, even though it's very interesting and alluring, and has some value but, I'm not sure R C Sproul would be too enamored with it. I've been wrong about many things so...I like it personally.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
An important discovery from the scientific realm: Neanderthal (and Denisovan) DNA was 15-16ths human and 1-16th chimpanzee. We should conclude this was the end result of human-ape hybridization in Genesis 6:12.
I'll check it out.
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
I agree I enjoyed Dr. Heiser and took some things with a grain of salt. I grew up in a Presbyterian church and was dismayed I was constantly told supernatural things in the Bible were not to be believed (demons do not exist Jesus and the disciples simply did not understand modern medicine). Personally either Jesus is the Son of God and perfectly understands He is talking to a demon or He does not, in which case His death and Resurrection are moot points. The Resurrection was and is clearly a supernatural event just like the Ascension. I hope that is about to be repeated in the Harpazo. John 13:36 “Lord, where are You going?” Simon Peter asked. Jesus answered, “Where I am going, you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later.”
Heiser is the best answer to the unfortunate "the old testament isn't important, you don't need to read it," Crowd, similar to Doug saying "skip over the Chapter on Calvinism. Doug, bless your heart, you and Dr. Heiser should spend sometime together.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
Don't miss out on his fictional novels The Facade and The Portent. Biblical scholarship, black site intel ops, and the paranormal don't often cross paths in the fictional world and these books prove its a shame.
Thanks.
I got the audio book, I'm not far in, but it's mazing! Frankly, it isn't shaking my world few, only affirming some things I have already began to believe. For example, I came to a conclusion that if other gods existed, then the All Mighty made them. I was thinking about that in the context of atheist criticism. I've seen debates where an atheist will ask the crowd if they believe in Thor. He concludes by saying, "I just believe in one less god than you do." It's a clever thing to say. Presently, I have no issue saying that a god people called Thor existed or exists. However, if he does he was created by the uncreated YHWH.
I recommend the book. Certainly an interesting thing to think about.
Reformed theology is one step away from the country club. I would add that it IS the country club and the country club is where you will meet the powers and principalities.
As I have fought to make my faith my own I have always questioned each style of systematic theology as I get around to studying each area of faith. I grew up catholic, mostly listen to protestants and go to an evangelical church and I disagree on many topics with each of them. I have come to my own conclusions which are all biblical and doctrinal but just a little from this tradition and a little from that. My main goal has to never lose sight of the original context in which scripture was being written and that is what I appreciate about Dr. Heiser's work so much. I appreciate the writing of protestants but they read out of latin or english bibles and may not have spoken the original greek or hebrew. Aquinus had the same problem, never learned the original languages and relied on interpretations. I don't want to try and squeeze my theology into a box ready made by others unless that is what the bible is saying is true and I can be convinced of it in discussion and debate. Each branch of christianity seems to get so much right but has also been overly grecanized in my view because of the dominate culture the early church spread in. Dr. Heiser's work helps to alleviate that I feel. I am glad Doug knows of his work as well although I would love to hear more about what points Heiser brought up and how Doug answers them.
Same here. I'm reading the Dead Sea Scrolls, intertestamental literature, and the early church fathers to give the Bible context, not filtered through reformed theology or later Catholic traditions. There are things that are wrong in many denominations.
@@slash4216 100%. I was already thinking and studying this way but when I heard Dr. Heiser say "The was written for you but was not written to you." The lightbulb went off. That is an excellent way to put it. I need to understand the many different frames of refrence of the culture and events surrounding the different literature in scripture to make the best sense of it. The message and the theology tht comes out of it will be more accurate and just as innerrant.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
Man, spot on about reformed believers and their shunning of those things in the Bible that demand greater inspection and debate.
Just because Heiser doesn’t agree with Calvinism doesn’t mean he doesnt under it.. I’ve heard him speaking on it and as a former myself Calvinist he definitely understands it..
If angels/demons could procreate with human women and this was a great evil, why does the OT law never mention it as a sin to be avoided or the prophets never condemn women for doing it? Did the flood somehow effect the ability of angels/demons to procreate with humans?
The flood wiped out the seed of those angels and the angels are held in Tartarus per the insight from Peter and Jude (Judas).
No need to warn for what is now prevented from occurring.
And both men tie that sin along with other sexual or unnatural sins being mentioned in their passages on the subject.
@@KMANelPADRINO but their offspring was on the earth even afterwards.
@@arminius504
Actually no. It says the Nephilim were on the earth afterwards. As a category, demons or fallen spiritual beings were on the earth.
The children born to them, the Gibborim or warriors/heroes of old were just that: of old. They don’t live anymore.
Exactly! His take on angels having sex with women is ridiculous. Angels are spirits and don't have sperm to have children, when you say it out loud it' sounds ridiculous. God created Humans with a purpose to have children. If that's the case angels would be having sex with women 24 hours a day.
His fiction is actually pretty fun to read too.
Any chance you might discuss this topic with Dr. White?
From Heiser’s perspective, he got this “fringe” material from scholarly papers and articles. He’s very educated. There’s a minute or two in here which sounded like his work is not scholarly. I would say the opposite is the case.
Currently studying 1 Corinthians using Dr. Randle Smith's videos and chapter 1&2 cover this issue of "I am Calvanist, I am Arminian, I am pre-millenial , I sm dispensentional" etc...Calvin did not die for my sins, nor did Doug, nor did Baptists etc. We as Christians are to stay loyal to the message not the messenger. And it is God who gives growth....so I find it uttterly ridiculous that Christians go by these lables. We belong to God through Christ.
Read the text, if you do not understand, research it with the same vigour we look for money...then pray about it and make up you mind based on your understanding and research. But always always keep an open mind snd be willing to learn.
Knowlege puffs up...but love builds up.
heiser gets his stuff from ancient jewish paganism. he uses the apocryphal books as canon if they fit his "unseen realm" wackiness
He is also a weasel in how he talks about various topics. Like when he is pushing a narrative that isn't popular he pretends it's not his view but that he is just presenting various views.
@@UnderTheFloor79 his popularity is very important to him
Does he use them as Canon or context? My reading has led me to the latter conclusion.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
See, it’s the fact his read on Calvinism and debate are soooo bad that I have a hard time trusting his (Michael Heiser) main works..
100% agreed
Just one single problem with Mr Heiser theology, that his opinions for and Old earth creation is painfully bad, using eisegesis instead of exegesis for the creation account.
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
One thing that I took away from heiser's work is a cosmological view of the struggle that I have been born into that was engaged before my time and is going to carry on through the future. The thing that I find uplifting challenging I don't know if I'm using the right word it gives me purpose to know that God has arranged things and has chosen me to fit into his plan and it's not just sitting on a cloud playing the harp. He has councils and he listens to his creatures and wants us to participate in his creation. I find that invigorating.
For those unaware, Michael Heiser in this book spends a few chapters, 8 and 9 I believe, proving methodically and precisely how Calvinism is absolutely wrong, heretical, and unbiblical. One of the great proof texts he uses is 1 Samuel 23:10-13. It's where David asks the Lord about what Saul and the men of a city will do if he and his men stick around. The Lord tells him precisely what Saul and the men of the city will do, at which point David makes the decision to leave the area, which causes those things the Lord told him about to NOT OCCUR. It's one of the great evidences against the heresy of Calvinism in God's word. So for those of you that wish to see the truth about Calvinism being a trash lie, this book is fantastic.
But, Doug Wilson is on record saying that Michael Heiser is wrong about Calvinism and the subject doesn't belong in Heiser's book "Unseen Realm". I trust Douglas Wilson on Calvinism. Brilliant man, brilliant mind.
I have to agree with Heiser about calvanism, it's not logically coherent and the calvanist spend more time defending it than Christianity
...📖💪🏼a push back to post-enlightenment Modernist (Fundamentalist) assumptions..."spiritual push-ups"(4:20)
Heiser's "divine council" theology is flawed because he twisted or otherwise distorted key passages, such as Psalm 82, Deuteronomy 32:8, 4:19, and others. Psalm 82 is about human judges, not alleged and speculative "divine beings," since we have no Scripture showing "divine beings" engaging in judging human activity as shown in verses 2-4. It's human judges who have been guilty of what verses 2-4 claim.
I recommend reading the book "The Unbiblical Realm: Refuting the Divine Council of Michael Heiser’s Deuteronomy 32 Worldview" by Heath Henning.
Those interested in videos on this topic can check out my series called "The UnBiblical Realm: Refuting Michael Heiser's Divine Council w/Heath Henning.
Heiser used his liberal education and imported the "divine council" idea into his evangelical views, and has duped the evangelical world into accepting liberal theology cloaked in evangelical garb.
I've read all of Heiser's books (I think) and listened to scores, if not hundreds of hours of his lectures and I think Mr. Wilson may be giving the good doctor too much credibility here. Heiser is more like the Oxford professor mentioned above, i.e., he will state, "this is what the Bible teaches," but I am not confident that he believes any of it to be true. For example, he clearly teaches that Genesis 1-11 were written post-exile, as a polemic against Mesopotamian theology and never seems to come right out and say, "And it really happened." Instead, it's the old "mythology" tangent. He outright says that the Israelites believed in a flat earth, with an actual canopy covering the sky, with the literal throne of God resting above it and Sheol, Hades or Hell, being below the earth, etc. And he insists that Genesis One does NOT require literal six day creation and that it really has nothing to say to us about how the universe came into being other than, "God did it." When I have asked, at least two dozen times, in the comment sections of his videos, "Why should we trust God about things we cannot see, when He clearly got in wrong on things we can see" the silence is deafening. It really does appear that Heiser thinks that the Old Testament "weird stuff" is all there and important, but only because it bolsters certain theological arguments the Israelites were having with Mesopotamian religion; and that none of it actually had to have happened because the point was always theological, and had little to do with the "real" world. If I am wrong in this analysis, I am quite open to correction; but thus far, his evangelical fans seem to assume he is one of them, when in reality, he belongs more to the academy.
Well I have taken his courses, so might be biased here. The things you point out are true criticism under a modernist paradigm of the discussion of these topics, but the whole point of Dr. Heiser discourse is we should reject the modernist paradigm to analyze and bring conclusions to the table. And now in my experience beyond Heiser material the more you dive in ancient cultures it becomes more apparent that meaning was more important than scientifically factual as limitation of the paradigms that built the ancient cosmological view of the world, because being pragmatic came before proving something in a scientific sense. It's quite an incomplete answer from my part but in a more simple way the paradigm shift depend if we accept that ancient people even thou were equal to us in the capacity to have revelation and being used by God, were different in their approach to describing "reality", defining and debating concepts.
@@cristianfernandez1874 I couldn’t have said it better myself. Good stuff.
i don't care for anything heiser believes
@@hondotheology your loss mate
I used to devour his content and I’ve learned a lot but he’s not that great of biblical theologian (like many scholars especially OT scholars) IMO. For him it’s mostly ANE context and 2nd temple context through which he interprets scripture. Not typology and the biblical canonical context. I believe the NT writers teach us how to read scripture and they see Christ and Satan etc. in OT scriptures where Heiser and other OT scholars don’t see it (I think in that respect they are definitely misguided) because they are committed to the critical and historical method (they have to if they want to be taken seriously in their academic field which is of course secular).
I did benefit from reading Heiser and his insights about the council, Sons of God etc. but I wouldn’t recommend adopting his overall method of reading the Bible. There are much better biblical theologians out there (theologians like Alastair Roberts or Peter Leithart and others) who interpret biblical passages based on biblical threads and not just the ANE context, so much more like the NT writers and that leads to a much more christian reading of the text and to a much greater connection between biblical books and an understanding of the great biblical narrative, the opposite of what is being done in many universities today where the Bible tends to get disjointed and not put together again (IMO Heiser operates in that world which is why he gets some things seriously wrong though he is definitely one of the better guys).
Heiser missed the mark on Calvinism but I agree, it's really helpful. I think he's right about most of his interpretations it flows and coheres very well.
Here's how to do all of the true appointed times.
Children, listen CLOSELY. TRANSLATE FOR YOUR PEOPLE
This link below shows how you do the
appointed times and more importantly, WHEN.
I watched and logged the moon for two years and here I
show you the EXACT days to do the feasts. Study this
and fix the calendar.
ua-cam.com/video/185siLcVToI/v-deo.html
I have respected Dr. Heiser and his work. And yet, even he falls into that camp that just can't help but caricature Calvinism. Why do so many otherwise learned men do this?
Because we have been taught our entire lives that we have to earn/achieve what we want to happen. We have to put in the effort, that it is about what WE have to do. Also, I think that growing up in Western society, we are naturally all about our freedoms and opposition to kings/rulers/dictators. To suddenly be told that you have been wrong your entire life by the Word of God is a pretty jarring experience for everyone, some to a greater extent than others. Many just have a really hard time letting that mindset go and accepting that it isn't about us.
because its easy
@@douglasmcnay644 As someone who is both "Calvinist" (I hate that term but it gets the point across) and a lover of liberty as a gift from God to every image bearer, I disagree with your assessment of why Westerners caricature and dismiss a Calvinist reading of Scripture. People love rulers, they love kings, they love abdicating responsibility. Just look around you at the events of the last few years for proof of this. In fact, the American Revolution was spearheaded by Presbyterian ministers - so much so, that in England at the time the war was known as the "Presbyterian Revolt". It isn't a disregard for rulers in general that drives the post-Enlightenment West away from Calvinism; it is a disregard for God in particular as ruler, as decision maker, as king, that I see as the driving force behind it.
For every argument against Calvinism, there is a Calvinist who says, "the arguer just doesn't understand Calvinism." This is why the Christians in the other sandboxes don't like you.
@@MissingTrails Wow! "For every argument" and "...don't like you." how utterly un-Christian. Is there any Christian charity in your heart or simply hate for Calvinists. You say you have arguments. Speak them. Don't hide behind generalities and ad hominem arguments. Unless, of course, all you have in your quiver is hate. If so, as Paul said,
"Test yourself to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-unless indeed you fail the test?"
And elsewhere said,
"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."
May God grant that this be so for you.
Dear Doug
After watching this video a couple of times i got the impression that maybe you don't want to rock the boat to a certain extent.
Dr. Heiser is also on Canon Press
But you are gracious and kind even though I know you take a different position on his view of
Theistic determinism.
TULIP / Calvinism
It's well observed that you are not afraid to take a strong position on others who don't share your view on predestination ?
Why is this ? No one challenges
Dr. David Jeremiah and he is by my estimation a man of God.
But certainly not a Calvinist.
Any thoughts ?
Sincerely Stephen.
Just an observation maybe I'm wrong ?
Is this true? Heiser is on canon press?
You can scratch the same itch by reading Meredith Kline.
Scripture does NOT take the pagan ideas and adapt them. What is true is that in pagan cultures there might be some things that reflect what is TRUE in the Bible. Everything starts with GOD and the Scriptures by chance some pagan religions reflect some truth. We must Always START and STAY with the WORD.
Why listen to a creature that says it’s angels God is talking to when He says “let us make man in our image.” ?
Heiser is like a man who filters living waters of life through 8 tons of rotten dung and is then surprised the water comes out all brown, smelly and poisenous
What book??
i have been taught that historically human language has always been in a flux , ever changing . some stuff with heiser or john wilson maybe so,maybe not .both could use a good dose of occam's razor. what has not changed since the genesis fall is the seed its planting,water sun and ground . agrarian is the universal language and family the meaning and purpose for staying alive. bee gees recused.
Dr. Heisers view on Calvinism is spot on. Calvinism is such a limited view of the character of God.
Two steps from The country club
classic LOL
"Everything was great except the 1 thing I didn't like! So skip it its dumb" is probably the lamest response I've heard from Doug, and I love him
Youre presuming Doug says that material is trite and doesnt engage the issues just because it is anti-calvinist. But I doubt that. I think he would acknowledge if he disagreed but the argument was on point, and wrong. He probably says it is silly and doesnt engage the issues. . NOT because he disagrees with the conclusion, but because it is silly and doesnt engage the issues.
@@ibperson7765 Doug is a smart guy but calvinism is easily wrong. People just get caught up on a man made definition of omnipresence and force reading scripture to match that expectation.
If that expectation is wrong, the Bible doesnt "have" to be interpreted that way.
@@LoftOfTheUniverse Doug aside, are you willing to say more about that. Im interested. Calvinism is based on an incorrect understanding of omnipresence?
@@ibperson7765 It's similar to Peter telling Christ "never lord" about Him going to His death.
Peter meant well, probably thought something like "a king, the king of kings will rule in luxury! In power!" Obviously dying *seems* weaker. Peter couldn't see the big picture other than the traditional perspective of early kings.
Christ does have power and He is a king. Us being obsessed over it and saying things like "we can't choose to believe that undermines Christ getting the glory/ credit" to me is one of those things similar to Peter.
The intention is well and it can make sense to us because omnipotence supposedly means every atom is constantly and actively controlled by God, but the truth is the truth and it doesn't undermine His power if people need to choose. Faith precedes regeneration so calvinism which is the crux calvinism can't stand without.
@@LoftOfTheUniverse Makes sense. Thanks.
Personally Im getting to the point, even just in the last couple days, that I think the question “between” sovereignty and human volition is artificial. Not all of reality can fit into our linear, logical cognition.
Just one aspect, but not the whole of what Im getting at, is: Even a staunch Calvinist would say that salvation involves people accepting Christ and choosing to repent, etc; so from there it seems like we are asking whether God decided the person decided to or whether the person decided the person decided to. Either way the person had better decide to.
Clearly the Holy Spirit is giving a gift when He reveals Christ to us “while we were yet sinners”. So gratitude and understanding we are being SAVED are both good. But yes that involves much admission and confession and acceptance BY the one being saved. I guess if we wanted to treat deciding as a thing in and of itself, then we could make a contradiction out of those statements, yet there really isn’t one.
One of the attributes of God is ineffability.
Be nice were one to be specific when one says, "He gets Calvinism wrong....feel free to skip this chapter."
Words are cheeeeeaaaaap.
1:34 - agreed.
Unlike Doug Wilson, I would recommend "Supernatural" as a better place to start reading Michael Heiser. The secondary part of the book's title is, "What the Bible teaches about the unseen world--and why it matters."
Heiser's books aren't hard to understand at all, he's not a theist as some have said, etc.
I've learned where those other gods the neighboring kingdoms worshiped came from!
Haven't you ever wondered about that? Heiser teaches what the Bible says about their source.
John 10:34 Jews stoning Jesus for blasphemy, because you declare yourself to be God. Jesus replied "Is it not written in your law, 'I have said you are gods'?
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came---and the scripture cannot be broken---"
I've wondered about that for a long time. What was Jesus talking about?
Oh! Psalm 82:1 "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."
Wow! Did you know this was in the Psalms? Did you know "the scripture cannot be broken"? I didn't. THAT'S WHY I loved reading Michael Heiser!
Answers to so very many things I've or you have come across, frowned, wondered about.
Heiser is exciting. No, you don't need to be fringe, or charismatic, or weird. Biblical is what you need to be. And willing to see the world through the eyes of the people of that time period.
How did Jews see THEIR world when the scriptures were written. Heiser opened up those doors for me.
How is it “not gospel” ??
That’s part of the reason Jesus came announcing the arrival of the kingdom/ His reign. Bc the gods/ principalities/ powers of the air needed disarmed (read Colossians ch2) by his preaching the kingdom, His death and resurrection.
It most certainly is gospel. It’s one of the missing parts of the gospel in most churches today.
1 Corinthians 2:8 another important text on this