Uh oh- Here come the critics. I hear so many certified instructors and players say "never drop the elbow" it's not textbook and will give you problems. Well, let me say on behalf of those of us who do have an elbow drop... YOU'RE A LEGEND. Don't let them take away how you've proven them wrong here. I get it- the argument is solid. "The more mechanics you have, the more flaws you have". I just think that's a shortsided argument. The human mind/body is an amazing thing, and a couple extra mechanics can do wonders for the right people with the right practice. I basically have the same stroke you do, long on both sides of the swing. It greatly improves my timing because there's a bigger margin for error to hit the sweet spot of the stroke. With a frozen elbow, because there's little follow through, that inherently means the sweet spot in the stroke timing comes towards the end of the stroke, and that is harder for me to get a hold of. The only difference for me is that I often use a stroke slip (throwing my cue) so sometimes the follow through seems excessively long, but that's just cause the cue is ending up in a different place in my hand already. Excellent video my friend. Keep 'em coming.
Hi Nate! I am blushing…. Thanks a lot for this encouraging feedback! Yet, its not my knowledge, I am just lucky to be able to learn from some of the best. The arguments from trainers and instructors to not drop your elbow are valid as well! The beauty of a stroke with a dropping elbow, when executed by an expert, is just mesmerizing to me. Have a great day/evening!
I think we can agree there are opportune times and certain shots that are just performed better with each stroke. The ability to be able to perform both is a great advantage. Almost as good as being ambidextrous.
@@YaworskiPoolPractice exactly. An example would be rail shots. When the CB is froze. To a rail, or close I don’t use the same stroke as I would normally. A more compact stroke is more accurate for that kind of hit.
Very good explanation 👏 👌 You helped me realize some of my mistakes with this one. I've been struggling with my stroke too. So far I have only used the punch because most of the time everyone says you should never drop the elbow but now I feel it's worth to try get this technique under your belt. Thank you
I love this information. The punch pinned elbow stroke has its place but not being able to execute the well timed J stroke or dropping elbow stroke is just setting a arbitrary limit on you pool journey that a serious player limits himself with unnecessarily. Using both is obviously the right thing for a good player to learn. Use both, perfect both. Regardless of what you prefer the well executed J stroke moves the cue ball easier and with less effort. Both strokes, when done well work, one is punchy, short and consistent the other flowing, seemingly requires less effort to move the cue ball, but requires a bit more timing to learn. Both have their place, why a good player would want to limit him or herself to just one technique out of some sense of their being only one right way to do it dogma seems odd to me. It is also in evidence the best players in the world do both.
Yes I believe with Ronnie O’Sullivan as he is one of the few professionals who dropped the elbow he said that he can get through the ball much better and therefore the tip remains in contact with the cue ball for longer so it gives him the extra bit of control versus a player who doesn’t follow through as far. Plus you are generating power more easily with less effort so ultimately the ethos is less is more so you don’t have to hit the ball so hard so there is less deflection and less chance of something will go wrong with a technique. Surprisingly Ronnie O’Sullivans technique actually uses a rocking action when he’s queueing up and he actually comes down onto the ball and as he is cueing it’s almost like a seesaw motion and then he’s coming down on the ball almost at 50° angle which he says helps him to generate better timing and more power and help him get through the ball better where is this is usually advised against because you are pushing down the cue ball which can make the cue ball bands and obviously you want as little bounce of the cue ball on the slate as possible. At the end of the backswing he actually raises the cue butt up and it’s very interesting to watch and then he’s coming ‘down’ onto the cue ball which is advised against an all Snooker textbooks because this could encourage you to miss Q or chip the white off the table I’ve tried this and it definitely gives me more consistency , better feel and generally more success. Its an odd one
I am Brazilian, I loved your video, very well explained, very clear, I have a question. Could you please clarify for me? When you say, relaxed, loose wrist, do you mean about the grip, that is, having a light and relaxed grip? Should the hand holding the cue not squeeze it?
Great vid that makes you think! Of course being able to use either stroke at opportune times in a game without having to think about it and "just do it" as the shot deems necessary would be the ultimate mind set if that's even possible. The same as Myself when using a closed bridge for the most part, but going to an open bridge when I feel it is necessary and making the switch without thinking about it. THAT would be the pinnacle of shot making with or without elbow drop... jmho
I'm more on the opposide side. As Shortstop on Pool also pointed out, we see more pro's not droping their elbow, which outlines sort of a best practice. It is indeed true that you sometimes see elbow drop by some ofte the pro's, but i believe many of them implement it on power strokes, while they are more compact on other shots. It's also a confidence thing - I believe mastering the compact stroke, and having it in your arsenal actually is a great insurance on bad days, which in itself limits the amount of bad days, because it boosts your overall confidence - allowing for a more free flowing stroke more of the time. You can also make an argument that especially "normal players" (non pro's) would benefit not droping their elbow a lot, because it demands much more control, which is harder for a non-pro to aquire. Last thing: elbow drop is not black/white. There are things in between. There's also a question about how much of the drop is happening before and after the tip. And one last thing, i think the increased cue tip contact time was debunked by Dr. Dave, wasn't it? I believe the biggest benefit of dropping the elbow, is the mental factor of not choking the grip before impact, often happening in more compact strokes with power as a result of the mind beeing programmed to "catch" the cue immidiatly after contact. Thanks for a great video. I agree that you need to find what suits for you. Quality content as usual!
I don't remember where, but someone did an analysis of the elbow drop before or after contact. The conclusion was that almost all pros that use the elbow drop, don't start dropping until after the tip has struck the cue ball and their is no longer contact. So if the strokes were analyzed by camera and slowed down, up until the point that the cue ball was already gone, there was no difference. Basically they are all using a pendulum until it doesn't matter anymore. (When I say all, I mean most)
Fantastic, couldn't agree more. I have a lot to say. I may also make a video on my findings and opinions as a fellow amateur. I love the community we are building on youtube. Thank you ! 😊
@@joebird2744 Using a mirror to see if your elbow is straight when moving, or using a camera (smart phone) always helps to keep aligned. And of course, repetition, practice practice
A very great video,youre a great player too,i like the way you describe all the things in every single detail, and please make whats in my case video im sure people wonder what you have in your case too. Have a blast day man🤜🏻💪🏻
Long straight shot elbow stays up. When I don't need to be as accurate and want to juice the ball. Elbow is coming down. Some pros play like robots and they never drop the elbow and always have perfect stance they also never go for tough shots they play a percentage game.
Uh oh- Here come the critics. I hear so many certified instructors and players say "never drop the elbow" it's not textbook and will give you problems. Well, let me say on behalf of those of us who do have an elbow drop...
YOU'RE A LEGEND. Don't let them take away how you've proven them wrong here. I get it- the argument is solid. "The more mechanics you have, the more flaws you have". I just think that's a shortsided argument. The human mind/body is an amazing thing, and a couple extra mechanics can do wonders for the right people with the right practice.
I basically have the same stroke you do, long on both sides of the swing. It greatly improves my timing because there's a bigger margin for error to hit the sweet spot of the stroke. With a frozen elbow, because there's little follow through, that inherently means the sweet spot in the stroke timing comes towards the end of the stroke, and that is harder for me to get a hold of. The only difference for me is that I often use a stroke slip (throwing my cue) so sometimes the follow through seems excessively long, but that's just cause the cue is ending up in a different place in my hand already.
Excellent video my friend. Keep 'em coming.
Hi Nate! I am blushing…. Thanks a lot for this encouraging feedback! Yet, its not my knowledge, I am just lucky to be able to learn from some of the best. The arguments from trainers and instructors to not drop your elbow are valid as well! The beauty of a stroke with a dropping elbow, when executed by an expert, is just mesmerizing to me. Have a great day/evening!
@@pocketedyoutube 100% agree. Thanks! you too.
I think we can agree there are opportune times and certain shots that are just performed better with each stroke. The ability to be able to perform both is a great advantage. Almost as good as being ambidextrous.
@@YaworskiPoolPractice exactly. An example would be rail shots. When the CB is froze. To a rail, or close I don’t use the same stroke as I would normally. A more compact stroke is more accurate for that kind of hit.
Very good explanation 👏 👌 You helped me realize some of my mistakes with this one. I've been struggling with my stroke too. So far I have only used the punch because most of the time everyone says you should never drop the elbow but now I feel it's worth to try get this technique under your belt. Thank you
Thanks a lot!
Very clear concise accurate and important. Thank you very very much. And please don’t sit on the table. So glad to have located your videos.
Hello Bob! Thanks so much for your kind feedback, means a lot to me! And promised, I will never sit on the table again ✌🏻
I love this information.
The punch pinned elbow stroke has its place but not being able to execute the well timed J stroke or dropping elbow stroke is just setting a arbitrary limit on you pool journey that a serious player limits himself with unnecessarily. Using both is obviously the right thing for a good player to learn. Use both, perfect both. Regardless of what you prefer the well executed J stroke moves the cue ball easier and with less effort. Both strokes, when done well work, one is punchy, short and consistent the other flowing, seemingly requires less effort to move the cue ball, but requires a bit more timing to learn. Both have their place, why a good player would want to limit him or herself to just one technique out of some sense of their being only one right way to do it dogma seems odd to me. It is also in evidence the best players in the world do both.
Hey, thanks so much for your detailed feedback, to which I can relate a lot
Yes I believe with Ronnie O’Sullivan as he is one of the few professionals who dropped the elbow he said that he can get through the ball much better and therefore the tip remains in contact with the cue ball for longer so it gives him the extra bit of control versus a player who doesn’t follow through as far.
Plus you are generating power more easily with less effort so ultimately the ethos is less is more so you don’t have to hit the ball so hard so there is less deflection and less chance of something will go wrong with a technique. Surprisingly Ronnie O’Sullivans technique actually uses a rocking action when he’s queueing up and he actually comes down onto the ball and as he is cueing it’s almost like a seesaw motion and then he’s coming down on the ball almost at 50° angle which he says helps him to generate better timing and more power and help him get through the ball better where is this is usually advised against because you are pushing down the cue ball which can make the cue ball bands and obviously you want as little bounce of the cue ball on the slate as possible.
At the end of the backswing he actually raises the cue butt up and it’s very interesting to watch and then he’s coming ‘down’ onto the cue ball which is advised against an all Snooker textbooks because this could encourage you to miss Q or chip the white off the table
I’ve tried this and it definitely gives me more consistency , better feel and generally more success. Its an odd one
Cool, thanks for the Snooker perspective on this man
Well! Ya can't get better than Ronnie, so on that basis, I'll try to learn this technique. Also check your channel out. Thank you James.
@@pocketedyoutube count on me for that lol! Some very good points you covered though- great video and good value
Elbow drop it a well discussed topic. But I think I agree with your elpanation. I'll try and develope this cue action. Thanks a lot. Cheers.
As mentioned, its up to everyone to individually, yet always awesome to see if someone perfects it!!
I am Brazilian, I loved your video, very well explained, very clear, I have a question. Could you please clarify for me? When you say, relaxed, loose wrist, do you mean about the grip, that is, having a light and relaxed grip? Should the hand holding the cue not squeeze it?
Great vid that makes you think! Of course being able to use either stroke at opportune times in a game without having to think about it and "just do it" as the shot deems necessary would be the ultimate mind set if that's even possible. The same as Myself when using a closed bridge for the most part, but going to an open bridge when I feel it is necessary and making the switch without thinking about it. THAT would be the pinnacle of shot making with or without elbow drop... jmho
Hi! I see it quite similar than you being able to pull of both, and you have so many more options. Have a great time!
I'm more on the opposide side. As Shortstop on Pool also pointed out, we see more pro's not droping their elbow, which outlines sort of a best practice. It is indeed true that you sometimes see elbow drop by some ofte the pro's, but i believe many of them implement it on power strokes, while they are more compact on other shots. It's also a confidence thing - I believe mastering the compact stroke, and having it in your arsenal actually is a great insurance on bad days, which in itself limits the amount of bad days, because it boosts your overall confidence - allowing for a more free flowing stroke more of the time. You can also make an argument that especially "normal players" (non pro's) would benefit not droping their elbow a lot, because it demands much more control, which is harder for a non-pro to aquire.
Last thing: elbow drop is not black/white. There are things in between. There's also a question about how much of the drop is happening before and after the tip.
And one last thing, i think the increased cue tip contact time was debunked by Dr. Dave, wasn't it? I believe the biggest benefit of dropping the elbow, is the mental factor of not choking the grip before impact, often happening in more compact strokes with power as a result of the mind beeing programmed to "catch" the cue immidiatly after contact.
Thanks for a great video. I agree that you need to find what suits for you. Quality content as usual!
Thanks a lot for your detailed opinion and feedback! Really appreciate it!!
I don't remember where, but someone did an analysis of the elbow drop before or after contact. The conclusion was that almost all pros that use the elbow drop, don't start dropping until after the tip has struck the cue ball and their is no longer contact. So if the strokes were analyzed by camera and slowed down, up until the point that the cue ball was already gone, there was no difference. Basically they are all using a pendulum until it doesn't matter anymore. (When I say all, I mean most)
@@viralvidsrepository4632 thanks a lot for your kind feedback!! Really appreciate it!
Fantastic, couldn't agree more. I have a lot to say. I may also make a video on my findings and opinions as a fellow amateur. I love the community we are building on youtube. Thank you ! 😊
Thanks a lot, feel the same!
I've been doing the elbow stroke and I'm getting really good I spent 4 hours today developing this stroke
Cool! Keep pushing
@pocketed! The Pool Billiard Channel how else can I improve my elbow stroke
@@joebird2744 Using a mirror to see if your elbow is straight when moving, or using a camera (smart phone) always helps to keep aligned. And of course, repetition, practice practice
Thanks
A very great video,youre a great player too,i like the way you describe all the things in every single detail, and please make whats in my case video im sure people wonder what you have in your case too. Have a blast day man🤜🏻💪🏻
Hi! Thanks for your comment, and for the idea to show whats in my bag! Have a great day
You should look at Tor Lowry and Mark Wilson info.
Thanks for the hint, will do!
Good explanation but don't like the sitting on the pool table!
Thanks a lot - will avoid it next time 😬
Not important at all. It’s about cueing straight and timing. The acceleration of your cue should be at its peak when you contact the cue ball.
Absolutely agree on having speed and timing correct when you hit the ball!!
It’s hard to take you seriously when you’re sitting on your table
Will avoid it next time!!
Long straight shot elbow stays up. When I don't need to be as accurate and want to juice the ball. Elbow is coming down. Some pros play like robots and they never drop the elbow and always have perfect stance they also never go for tough shots they play a percentage game.
Hi there! Absolutely agree 100% As mentioned in the video, some do, some don‘t. All about personal preference.