Expert’s solution on solving Korea’s population collapse
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Malcolm Collins is the host of Based Camp, a pronatalist, a Stanford MBA graduate, a venture capitalist, and an author.
In this Asian Boss Podcast episode, Stephen Park and Malcolm discuss Korea's declining birth rate and possible solutions to the problem.
If you want to learn why Korea is on its way to population extinction within the next century, you're in the right place.
50:33 Here's where Malcolm stops being convincing.
Many people want their kids to have at least the same, if not better, upbringings than they did. Without stable economic resources or government subsidies, most people can't make that guarantee nor are willing to take on that risk for an incrrase in stress and economic and financial strain.
Also, no one is going to go a few generations back to before the internet existed and aspire to bring kids into the world because they had it better absolute terms compared to people before the modern age of technology. It is no longer relevant to the expectations of the modern world. You don't compare yourself to feudal kings during the Middle Ages. You look at what your current peers are able to achieve.
Fertility rate is extremely easy to understand. It is directly tied to the perceived attainability of the expectations for your acceptable standard of living.
In other words, how easy you think it will be to live a good life WITH a kid, and how good it will be FOR your kid.
If you perceive that you will need to provide him with the entire American dream with a house, extracurriculars, college fund while still maintaining time with your wife or husband and yourself and your friends, then having a kid is going to be VERY hard.
If you perceive that you will need to provide them with love and care of your family and the ability to run around on the beach along with all the other kids but not necessarily much else, them having kids is a lot easier.
What this tells us is that the root cause and root solution for increasing fertility is extremely simple, though not necessarily easy: Either increase the ease for which people can attain their acceptable standard of living, or lower their expectations for what an acceptable standard of living would be.
The easier one to do is to lower everyone's expectations and thus far the world powers seem to be doing that incredibly well.
How about skipping college altogether, and gaining a Trade. The salary bonus from higher education is hugely skewed by a small cohort of people with STEM qualifications and Medics making Megabucks. The median boost to income probably doesn't cover the student loans. Moreover a lot of college graduates may earn decent money but the work they do isn't actually productive, they are penpushers who just add to the workload of others.
@@colinmacdonald5732 You are on the nose, exactly right. There is another video, I think it's Asian Boss as well, about South Koreans giving up on obtaining a Samsung LG or other Chaebol company job and instead going into blue collar trades. That's one aspect of men readjusting their expectations of an acceptable living.
For a long time it was perceived by men and women alike that the only acceptable standard for living was earning a degree and getting accepted into Samsung but now that is changing, and with that change we will definitely see people doing jobs with real tangible value and other people shifting their views toward such jobs as being a respectable career path.
@@colinmacdonald5732 This. We're huge fans of a reformed education system that focuses on producing graduates who are set up to thrive economically, socially, physically, and mentally. College is NOT a necessary factor in these things. Trades should be elevated and taught not just in trade schools for high school graduates, but also in primary and secondary school.
Brilliantly put. Societal standards and expectations play a huge role in demographic collapse. We'd also argue that industrialization (namely, work leaving the household) also played a huge role in the downfall of fertility, alongside some other factors, but societal standards and expectations can more easily be changed, so they're well worth attention.
@@SimoneandMalcolm Oh I absolutely agree. The industrialization and incentivization of a 2-income household has made the normal standard for a good life unattainable on 1 income for the median American. I think there are many ways to slice the same orange and we're all really talking about the same thing from different lenses. Great points, Simone/Malcolm
Pay moms.
No more lip service about motherhood being the "hardest job."
They're hyperaware of the huge risks and lack of respect associated with childbirth and childrearing in a way most women weren't in the past. Make it worth their while. Most people in comment sections are coming from such...detached points of view😂
My observation is that the fewer kids you have the more micromanaged each child is, the more WORK each child is. When I was growing up in 1970's, one of four siblings, we were pretty much left to our own devices, no parent helped us with homework, sometimes went to school a bit scruffy and unkempt. Nowadays parents expect to organise every tiny aspect of kids lives, if your kid turns up school with holes in their clothes that could attract the attention of the Social Workers. Mums especially spend crazy amounts of time to ensure the safety of their one or two kids that they're exhausted, and couldn't contemplate having more.
Small things. Me and me and three siblings would travel squeezed in the back seat of a car, all over the place, no seat belts, it's just what we did. in contrast, when one time my six year was in a child seat that I hadn't secured properly ( for an entire MILE!) my wife went NUTS! But the safer our children are ( and they are FAR safer) the more we knock ourselves out eliminating that last scintilla of risk.
Great points! (Simone and Malcolm here)
We're all for giving kids a great childhood, increasing their safety, and having adequate resources for them, but to your point, we've arrived at a point in time where societal standards are INSANE and we're seeing severe diminishing marginal returns in safety/attention/resources expended on kids (even to the point where our additional time/money/safety is hurting them).
Society has to balance between the consideration for child and for the parents. Now it's too much on the child.
My dad is one of seven. His parents did not go to sports meets. How could a parent of seven go to sports meets? Sports were the hobby of the child, not the parent. Today, sports take so much time from parents. I have a friend who can't make plans all summer because there might be a swim meet. I remember other parents, I knew, unable to go on summer vacation because their kids had to do football practice over a holiday weekend.
People always forget the part where the kids take care of the other kids too. I'm second youngest of 7 and my siblings would make sure I was safe and not completely screwing up my life either
Damn, you are that old and you are still as ignorant as you were before. Kids don't need that many management. Kids only need a lot attention first 12 years - this period is called childhood. After that period, kid becomes adult. Period from 13-17 years is called teenage hood, teenager is basically an adult but in its very primitive form. You are a father you don't need to protect worry about your kids this is their mom's job, you are a father they need your guidance. From birth till 12 kids only need mom's protection and her love. Afterwards, the separation happens, why teenagers are so insufferable? Because they want to prove the world, their peers their value, they want someone to recognize them they want to live by themselves, they want understand how to be full member of society. Difference between teenager and kid is that kid lives in family, for him parents are priority, the whole world of a kid revolves around parents. For teenager this is different, for teenager whole world is about society, teenagers speaking shortly are living in completely different world than kids. Teenagers compared to kids don't need mother, they need father's guidance and authority and support. The real game for fathers start when their kids become teenagers. Boys start to dream about becoming popular and respected at school, they want to learn how to live autonomously, and they desperately need someone to ask guidance and if fathers won't react as normal father should react, they would destroy son's destiny. Why so many teenagers are broken and depressed? Because their fathers are weak, and as lost as their offsprings, they are unable to guide their kids, give them confidence in their own potential, and so desperate teenagers start to join gangs, start to smoke cigarettes - and all those things have one common aim - to get recognition from someone, the approval from that person. Fathers in today's world are lazy, listen to women, act like women, instead of trying to guide their grown up kids they act like mothers, and so situation becomes even worse. Of course nowadays people don't want to have kids. Because most of the young people are still teenagers seeking for guidance, seeking for approval of their personality and potential, they realize that their kid's life would be even worse and logically they refuse to have kids. Moreover, the banished equality agenda destroyed all the balance between sexes, weak and lazy fathers gave birth to extremely arrognant women, who doesn't know anything about respect, and weak, pathetic sons whose whole life is about disrespect from every direction, who will never understand what it is like to be loved and respected genuinly. I hope i made you realize how serious and deep the problem is
in everyone of these countries with fertility problems, there is a clearly noticeable dissatisfaction by the women towards the men, they are very unhappy with them and they do not wont to start familes with them.
you cant just tell men to get married and have kids when they cannot get women to go on dates with them in the first place.
lesbian families are the answer
Good comment. The problem is what it's inside women's mind and behaviour.
@@pepitodegranolax the other way around is most likely the case. Try having attraction for both sex's and you'll see what I mean.
@@pepitodegranolax It's not women or men, it's the ruling class that has made life too expensive for the rest of us. There is no reason we should be wageslaving 9-5, 5 days a week.
@@Dg0yd That's true, but it is not the only reason : dating apps, technology, feminism which have put hypergamy in steroïds. If you just point out the economical factor, you just see the tip of the iceberg. A society in which 80% of women are attracted to 20% is not sustainable and beneficial, we're going to a downfall and we never rise up again if we don't change this paradigm.
haven’t watched this yet, but banning the cram schools would probably bump them up by 0.5 TFR all by itself.
They just move to online school
The anime crossover I needed
🤣🤣😂
Society has to be so happy, enjoyable, and easy to live in to make people want to make children. Don't ever see that happening anytime soon, and it is not just Korea. Any half-effort tiptoe policy won't fix people's pessimism about their lives and future.
The planet thanks you for not having kids. 🌏
Great interview! But I have a few issues. First, he claims USA is second in fertility rate among rich countries behind Israel. That's not correct. I'm pretty sure France is. The "stan"-countries are also worth having a look at. While not rich, they have a lot of economic growth and have recovered from the post-Soviet dip in fertility.
Secondly, I agree that it's not a great idea, and not sustainable, to fill the gap in rich countries by importing people from poor countries. But a similar thing happens within rich countries, where people from rural areas move to the cities where wages are higher. The retility-rate in cities in even lower, so cities become sinks of population. This is also a bad thing, and a trend that we should try to reverse.
And since he so often criticise people on the left, I should add that I'm very left. But I think declining fertility is a real problem. And I'm not the least bit worried that the right will dominate in the future because they focus on fertility-rate, while the left try to solve other issues. Because the right doesn't understand the underlying causes of declining birth-rates, and is unwilling to deal with it. And that is capitalism. People choose not to have children because in our capitalist society that prioritices short-term gain, having children is a hinderence. And that's not going to change.
We don't deal with the falling fertility-rates for the same reason we don't deal with the threat of climate change. Because the negative effects will be felt in decades or even centuries in the future. While in the short term, it's economically benefitial to increase emissions and decrease fertility.
Great interview! Love Malcolm!
The last thing most people wanted to do a long time ago was to have all those kids, but there was just no reliable way to prevent pregnancy. Therefore, these societies' high levels of procreation was not a heroic gesture! In fact, women went to all sorts of lengths not to have kids, including self-inducing abortions, eating poisonous plants, and infanticide.
Exactly! It wasn’t like people were happy having a gazilion kids and birth control has been used in various forms throughout history.
Highly disagree with the statement. In 20 years of my adult life i have been in romantic relationships with 400 women many of whom where girlfriends in my rotation for over a decade.
My fertility was very high but i was able to intentionally not have any children by simply pulling out like my life depending on it.
Pull out method works if the guy is disciplined and does it properly, never drinks or is under the influence.
Anyas i've tested myself i am fertile with a perfect semen analysis.
You do not need condoms or hormonal birth control to prevent pregnancy if you really wanted to.
50 to 60 years ago those couples wanted to have kids.
@@Re3iRtH😂😂😂
@@Emptytopfloor I know right :) this must be some freak Chad with a major case of OCD
@@arktseytlin idk if it’s real. 🤣
1:04:31 Parentification of children increases the likelihood that they won't want to have kids of their own because they got robbed of their own childhood and already endured the stresses of raising kids for little to no direct reward of their own. That's not a good strategy as it repeats the mistakes of the past. 🤦♂️
I think about how Tom Leykis was stuck raising his 3 younger siblings, and decided "Eff dem kids" when he was an adult.
Did Malcolm say that economic depression will become the normal situation? Well, I don't doubt it. I've been thinking the same thing and it's nice to hear someone else say it out loud in front of the whole world.
Of course the economic success story we've had since 1950 is all about large numbers of young workers and consumers driving the economy. First in the West and then in the rest of the world. Now when world population will stop growing fast and then actually start to decline of course we will have a shrinking economy. I imagine the stock market won't be a place where you wanna invest your money from now on for example. Welcome to a new world where almost everybody will become poorer over time. Much poorer and maybe a lot more quickly so than most of us wanna think about.
May you live in interesting times!
GameStop already proved a well managed decline can be very functional.
Please change the thumbnail, this dude's face on a void background is not engaging, I almost skipped the video
Cringe thumbnail
Exactly, this guy doesn’t know how to UA-cam. Make the thumbnail a hot Korean model with a baby. It’s a layup.
Just looking for appearance but overlooking the message? Sorry but you're the cringe.
Now it says “Asian boss” with the image of a blonde white guy…
Same
"You cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet."- Dane Wigington.
So overpopulation was always myth not science.
What does that have to do with stopping a population collapse?
Asteroid mining, Moon mining, Mars mining, other planet/moon mining, near-perfect recycling of materials etc. There’s nothing finite about our future.
I used to think like that but then changed perspective and realized something, stone age didn't end because stones ended, stone age ended because new technology, discoveries and specially ideas helped to create a better future, more efficient in the use of resources and with new paradigms and tools to do the jobs we used to do.
Obviously the human growth isn't going to be infinite, because nothing is (maybe ideas are) but using that excuse as the limit is really far with the technology we have today and could be pushed even farther with new technologies is just a dishonest or bad faith argument that appeals to feelings and other similar things to make you follow a very narrow point of view.
you have a wonderful imagination. The problem is we all have to eat dinner tonight. Everyone in the world faces a geopolitical situation that is driven by fear of short-term risks; hunger, immigration, jobs, income inequality. Demographics is going to become the key driver, if it’s not already, of all of those short term risks.
Malcolm initially acknowledges the historical correlation between more children and greater family wealth, which is accurate. However, he later commits a logical error by shifting to compare our current living standards to those of our ancestors. This comparison overlooks the historical context where increasing comfort traditionally correlated with higher fertility rates. Your point about 0 GDP and its role in fertility was insightful. It's disappointing to see this inconsistency in Malcolm's argument. While the discussion is informative overall, it fails to recognize the changing relationship between fertility and comfort in historical and contemporary contexts.
Good observation
This man is not an expert. He is finance bro who decided that Silicon Valley tech jargon justifies eugenics.
There is no degree that gives you expertise to talk about fixing fertility rates, malcom is a pro natalist activist who regularly attends conferences related to this issue and his yt channel is dedicated entirely to this issue
Eugenics??? His wife has to use IVF.
I’m not sure Malcolm would tell anyone not to have children. Not Eugenics.
@@jsbrads1 You pretty clearly can’t v see through the jargon.
@@matthewcaldwell8100 you apparently can see things that aren’t there 🫤
The tax on childlessness was a natalist policy imposed in the Soviet Union and other Communist countries, starting in the 1941. Joseph Stalin's regime created the tax in order to encourage adult people to reproduce, thus increasing the number of people and the population of the Soviet Union. The 6% income tax affected men from the age of 25 to 50, and women from 20 to 45 years of age.The tax remained in place until the collapse of the Soviet Union.
This propaganda communist policy made the Soviet Union's birth rate always between 2.6-2,3 during the period 1960 -1990 .
And the Soviet Union was the first country in the world to legalize abortion in 1918 .But then abortion was Ban again in 1933 as a result of the birth rate dropping from 7.0 (1920) to 4.0 (1930)
.After the tax on chilliness was implemented (1941). Abortion was legalized again in 1955.
It wasn't pro natalist policies as such that kept the birth rate high in Communist countries it was the complete absence of any other form of fun, and total economic security, albeit in near poverty. Anyway you weren't going to advance materially by having no kids, since NOBODY advanced. And in countries like Poland, with technologically backward agriculture, kids could help out on the farm. Furthermore a lot of food was grown on small domestic plots, and kids could definitely help out there.
Same thing was introduced in Italy during the Fascist regime.
Old world still required lots of human work (including help from kids in many life/work areas). Do not forget it was till 1980's mentality that next war will come and it both needed soldiers and some seed population in case of total/atomic war. Additionally it was mainly for men (less numbers after war in comparison to women so it was men who held matrimonial power and marriage for women equaled for better economic situation) - in Poland known as 'bull tax'. Currently it would have to be 'cow tax', as it is currently more men than women in reproduction age on average so women hold matrimonial and reproduction power. We all know that even if they think about it - such proposal will not squeeze through throats of talking heads as it would be political self deletion, and introducing 'bull tax' again would make the problem even deeper.
@@colinmacdonald5732 What fun are we talking about? I don't think lone incels playing vidyas all day are having fun. Or girlboss feminists substituting kids with pets. Both of these demographics are actually miserable.
I think it might be time to crack down on some of these anti-social behaviors, whether through taxes or more rigorous measures. After all the alternative is societal collapse in a couple of generations.
Within the RSFSR, the FR stayed above 2.0, only occasionally dipping it in the late 1960s and 70s before climbing again in the 1980s. After the USSR dissolved, the new Russian Federation saw it's FR drop far below 2.0 and never recovered
I don't know maybe let's make* housing affordable, so people can actually have the place to have children,cut the work day to let's say 8 hours so people have time to rise the kids, and made work culture healthy, ah and let the people save just a little bit of money for children (so they can afford them) I gurente you will have a booming population in 5 to ten years. Boom problem solved thank you guys for watching
Housing was a lot more expensive in the past, so entire families were living in a single room. People were working 12h a day. Slavery was a thing. Everybody was poor. Even kings could not have access to an ambulance and modern medicine. And yet people had 6 kids on average.
Amish have more kids than average.
@@Isinlor Depends of what country you speak of, people used to make more kids because more of then would die, slavery is of course very harmful to economy (and morally wrong) there is a lot of factors but during American dream, population was absolutely booming where all of the criteria i mentioned were fulfilled maybe expect for 8 hours
@@soren2386 The list of countries with the highest fertility rate in the world are all known for having a place to rise children, healthy work life balance and well functioning governments. Countries like Niger, Chad, DR Congo, Somalia, Central African Republic. They have around 10% mortality rate of children below 5. I don't know when the American dream was, but that's around USA levels in 1930.
For Poland, my home country, the American dream is absolutely right here, right now. It's the best 30 years for our country in our 1 000 years history. Booming economy, nobody is invading us (yet), no foreign occupation, no famines. And our fertility is very low.
People are very happy to lie to themselves about reasons to not want kids. I don't have kids because I'm hedonistic. Kids are a lot of work and sacrifice. Individually I'm happier without them.
@@Isinlor We don't have energy, time, or money for kids, because we are wageslaves. We spend half our waking hours generating profit for rich people. How much profit? I don't know, but you can bet that we make much more money for them, than they give us in our salaries. And we console ourselves over this exploitation with lies, that our labor brings us "fulfillment" or "purpose", or that it's directed toward "progress" or the good of society. We clutter our prison cell apartment with unnecessary luxuries - big glowing screens that mirror our windows overlooking the treeless, dirty avenues under the low grey sky, in an open-air prison cell of a city populated by a million slaves, and not one real human being among them...
@@Isinlor Well you see, in poverty people make a lot of children, especially when they don't have their sense of compassion developed and a sense of care as well, but besides this my polish friend, you see in your country of poland people refuse to have children since they know what will happen to them when born into poverty, and even besides this point as well how many young poles can't afford a house despite working hard? I mean don't pretend like a works rights exist in Poland, we both know they are fictional? But you know maybe this imitation of a country deserves to fade away, since polish society is very picky when they choose whom this country gives a crak* about, so now tell me what American dream you're talking about, right in Germany your work is worth 4 times more, if anything it's some biedak sen my friend
Mass immigration in European countries like France, UK, Germany, Sweden, etc. has not increased the fertility rate of the indigenous peoples of those European countries, the indigenoous fertility rates in all those countries have continued declining steadily while mass immigration rates have increased. Malcolm is painting a misleading, false picture by insinuating that Koreans need to adopt mass immigration in order to increase Korean fertility rates.
The way I see it, you can maintain population by immigration but the cost is the death of local culture. Immigrants don't usually respect or pass down the culture of indigenous people. Eventually the locals will be replaced by immigrants and no one will remember what Korean traditions are. Give it long enough time, maybe not even speaking Korean language anymore.
1:05:43rather than nothing. I think everyone in the past just didn't care.because they have to keep working 12 hours a day to live.even if living as a slave you have stress The owner just needs to whip your and you will go straight back to work slave.
That is also the reason why ancient people had short life spans.
Even slaves had more children than today's middle class
60 mins and i didnt get any solutions
Lots of waffle from the lesbian on glasses
He literally said culture change
@@kfcmcdonald5803
That's about as accurate and useful as someone saying "a number" if asked "what's 2+2"
Because he’s lowkey part of the problem.
Since a few years when i became aware of this issue i was very much interested in what policies could change this trend...mister Collins came with so many new insights, perspectives and possible solutions...thank you for that!!....will humanity ends with a sigh and starts again from rock bottom...which SF writer could have made up the story thats unfolding now for our eyes???
It's the same outcome as Children of Men and The Handmaid's Tale with a more mundane origin story.
The solution to the birth rate crisis is much simpler than Malcolm is making it out to be. We need communal living. We focus too much on nuclear families and not enough on village style living. The nuclear family puts way too much pressure on its inhabitants. We need village style family living to encourage higher birth rates. No need for religiosity or taking away people's freedoms. We need to build housing and lifestyles that allow multiple families to pool resources and live together in an urban, surburban, or rural environment. Focusing on ideology is a losing battle. Focus on building communal culture to raise birth rates.
18:43 is central Asia. Kazakhstan
Is $15K per capita really a high wealth country. To me thats like middle income because that per capita number is going to be bumped up a bit by all the oil wealth in the hands of a few.
@@cantingpython1809 They have some regions with Europe level wealth and still relatively high fertility rates. Though cities do have rates around 2. I do agree that it's a an outlier, but I think it will break soon.
@@cantingpython1809considering much lower cost of living, 15K in Kasakhstan is like 60K in USA.
Without implementation of a Resource Based Economy humanity will not solve shait.
Have fun destroying your economy with communism
condom and farmacy shortage... combined with cheap alcohol and cheap housing
South Korea birth rate
2016-1.17
2017-1.05
2018- .98
2019- .92
2020- .84
2021- .81
2022- .78
2023- .72
South Korea will be a 0 birth rate in 2035 or sooner.
This trajectory is terrifying.
Recall all your expats. Stop living in whyte countries.
It is literally impossible.
@@egolayer13 US birth rate
2016-1.82
2017-1.77
2018-1.73
2019-1.71
2020-1.64
2021-1.66
2022-1.67
2023-1.62
The US will be at 0 birth rate in 2056 or sooner.
You are absolutely right
51:24 That's severely out of touch. There's not equal access to knowledge or resources nor opportunities within communities, much less at a global level. Not everything is a zero-sum game, but many people will die in scarcity, and it's often due to a lack of understanding that other opportunities exist and that certain sacrifices would be required to take a huge gamble for a leap of faith that may or may not get you out of the current rut. A post-scarcity world would not have the current situations in Haiti, South Sudan, Syria, Gaza, or Yemen. Additionally, MGTOW, incels, and femcels wouldn't be so noticeable online.
47:47 Are you serious.
49:45 The reason poor people in the past have many children is because children are make money For family ( Work in the fields or even sell to other people to cover debts) And old age security safety net.
Without 2 This reason. There is no reason for poor people to have many children like in the past. Everyone will only have 1 or 2 children now
wrong
@@sydnacious4239 what wrong
There are a whole lot more reasons than that.
@@melelconquistador Differentiate the reasons for having children. For the reason of having many children.
@@komisiantikorupsikoruptord6257 you have poor people who are ignorant, ideologically inclined and plenty more.
Those are very broad reasons do I really have to list them to you?
48:20 bit of a dumb statement coming from someone who just said about half an hour ago, that during these times kids weren't as much of an economic burden instead even perhaps be an economic asset. So no, this isn't an argument against it being an economic problem. Doesn't mean that the cultural approach isn't also necessary, but it's not the end all be all. Economic viability is a HUGE consideration for mate selection in women, so we can't just ignore that
If the investor class didn't squeeze every last penny they can out of the workforce, then maybe we would have kids!
Can he explain Kazastan?
I sincerely hope Korea does find a way to reverse this trend. It would be an absolute tragedy to see a culture as successful as Korea's to simply fade away.
Well its not really successful if their not able to replace themselves now is it?
@@jasonkoroma4323 I have tried to make a case that a civilization can be successful without making babies and I don't really know how to do it.
@austinduke8876 you mean you failed, because it doesn't make any fking sense.
@AtheismF7W I'm not sure what you didn't understand. If you can be more specific I'll try and clarify
There's another...
Love this guy’s energy and intellect. I feel better about the future knowing he’s going to have lots of kids.
What about Kazakhstan?
The only fertility metric that makes it to the News is Teenage Pregnancy Rate, something tragic to be avoided at all costs. There's been a fairly substantial effort to reduce this, and a successful one. Free contraception, abortion. And Sex education which seems to a be campaign to sever the link between sex and procreation, no surprise that sex goes further and further into the virtual realm, ( pornography folks!). And we esteem general kinkiness above anything else, just look at the frankly perverse sex promoted in some sex ed materials here in Scottish schools. No surprise that having children is becoming a niche option.
Also a lot of anti natalist propoganda in the Media along the lines of "Parenthood doesn't make you happier", hugely besides the point, perhaps the hacks who peddle this stuff would rather their own parents had chosen the Happy option
Kazkhstan is not very known country despite being so big
You are right after 4 kids take care of each other the hard part really is food
My parents accidentally have their 5 child and my oldest sister are the one who take care of her
Kids can get involved in food at ages as young as six with some simpler things.
@@jsbrads1affording healthy food is a real issue right now. Most people can afford garbage food (which is why most poor people in the US are obese) but affording HEALTHY food is rough.
Live on a homestead
@@ant2715 live in reality 🤣
Man I hope you aren’t talking parentification, unless I’m misunderstanding
1:01:49 i think rich Korians who are extremely religious and can afford shefs, nanies, drivers and external good education in and abroad should do so or bee the target of this program also they have generational wealth that can be passed down and koria in 2100 will be a very equal society very techenophylic and everyone in koria will own everything and there wealth will grow with them working for themselves and have kids with a very secure feature. Just a thought .
Met a Korean woman 40 in college, her dad owns a huge factory which she worked in a high end position until she decided to quit her job, move to the US to go to Law school. She didn’t decide to marry or have kids, she didn’t tell me and I didn’t ask.
At this point I can’t imagine Korea or Japan recovering, they can import southeast Asians in the millions 🤷
The only way to improve brith rate is have a verry good wealth redistribution system.Edcuated smart People will only have kids if they can provide for them it's not to have 7 so 2 can survive into adulthood. It's to have 2 so 2 can thrive and have all the opportunity others kids have.
1:07:28 Mentally healthy is a stretch as psychiatric evaluations across time would need to be made with some level of standardization, and the demands of the modern world are nothing like the demands our grandparents faced. That may work as you are colonizing the Western frontier and need farmhands, but that is not the strategy used to get Stanford MBA grads that have Google manager and venture capitalist positions lined up. My grandparents from one side of the family were cattle ranchers and farmers who never completed high school and faced extreme hardship throughout their lives with multiple illnesses. Going backwards in time doesn't benefit everyone as those strategies were for survival in environments that demanded additional workers and had no entertainment, and even then, my mom was like screw all of that and got her degree as she helped her siblings move out of the countryside and to the capital of her home country to get educated. None of them wants to return to the old ways because they sucked, and they told my cousins and me the same thing.
So the fertility rate will go back up when having more kids becomes beneficial to the family, and that will happen when society stops being mostly urban and goes back to mostly small farm and herds-based. I give it at least three generations.
Make houses affordable. End of video. You're welcome.
Ooo! “By the time it’s affecting your daily life, it’s always too late.” That’s like climate change. The parallels just keep coming.
When we aged, during last days we dont feel pain after loss of senses. So dont worry abt end of aged. Though they r breathing and hav eye movement they dont demand or need anything. Understand end of life and accept it.
Love Malcom! First discovered him via Benjamin Boyce and becane a fan. Respect from Nigeria 👍👍
Very interested interview and very relevant. I lived for several years in Korea and can definitely say they should change their work culture. The working culture was the only thing bad about that place.
Maybe, a model for Korea could be the communes they have in Haifa for example. That IS kinda left-wing framework but kids are absolutely part of that framework...
The communes were very abusive to children. Jewish Israelis have also continued to break the modern norms with nonreligious people having 3-4 children even in modern homes and apartments today.
I'd say that it can't be just solved with individuals or culture it's clearly an economic issue so what I'm thinking is that countries need to start experimenting with new economic structures like socialism or something because capitalism as it is just doesn't work anymore .
This rich venture capitalist just wants to ensure he has a steady supply of serfs! 😂
My fellow Koreans, we must all band together and have a minimum of 3 kids in each and every family
2100 north Korea is real Korea
I mean, maybe get yourself living wages, affordable housing, affordable/reasonable education that won’t burn out your kids, and equitable division of house and child labor between you and your future spouses first?
Also good social safety nets to support you when things go wrong….
You’ll then have kids in paradise instead of a nightmare.
1:03:20 Like Duggars of Korea? No, don't do that. There must be another way is that did not work as you would hope. 😬😅
Does this guy even have kids? This needs to be addressed.
He has 4 and goes on to minimum 7
If this korea collapses at least we have a spare up North
Yeah this guy looks like a melted popsicle in the photo, also don't put your kid online.
He's a child abuser. Read "America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’" on The Guardian.
Artificial intelligence doing useful work will make the human population level unimportant.
Lmao
Yet people will still have to work a 9 to 5.
Honestly I hope ai will somehow get us to the old school Star Trek utopia. Lol
We need protection of all humans life from moment of conception.
Kind of fucked up to have kids as a social experiment, what's next? Having more kids and dumping them at orphanages to gains of scale?
What's more fucked up is needing a reason to have kids.
😂 “mankind” umm take accountability for the fall of the xy
Why not just bring in African and Indian men?
If the situation were the opposite, how would, say, Tanzania feel if 50% of their population will become Korean in 2 generations?
They're not missing men. Bringing in men from the world won't change a thing in that regard. It will just cause additional problems, like it does in Europe right now.
Because it will destroy their society even faster.
Immigration doesn't increase birth rates for more than a single generation unfortunately. We've tried in America for decades.
Yes! vector them away from white countries for once.
Please don't platform child abusers. His son was only two years old when he did this:
"Torsten has knocked the table with his foot and caused it to teeter, to almost topple, before it rights itself. Immediately - like a reflex - Malcolm hits him in the face.
It is not a heavy blow, but it is a slap with the palm of his hand direct to his two-year-old son’s face that’s firm enough for me to hear on my voice recorder when I play it back later. And Malcolm has done it in the middle of a public place, in front of a journalist, who he knows is recording everything.
Torsten whimpers. “In a restaurant, you gotta be nice,” Malcolm says. “I love you but you gotta be nice in restaurants. No, Toastie. You’re going to get bopped if you do that.”
“Hey. Can you help me with the iPad?” Octavian says, handing it to his father. None of this is remarkable to any of them. Torsten soon stops whimpering.
Smacking is not illegal in Pennsylvania. But the way Malcolm has done it - so casually, so openly, and to such a young child - leaves me speechless.
Malcolm picks up where he left off. “What Elon stands for, largely, I wholly support,” he continues. “Our politics are very aligned.” Grimes, the mother of three of Musk’s children, follows Simone on X.
The meal passes in a bit of a blur. Malcolm tells me about how pronatalism and space travel are intricately linked (“we don’t just want to create a sustainable civilisation here, we want it to expand outwards to the stars”); how his branch of effective altruism considers the suffering of humans today to be “pretty irrelevant” because the suffering of billions of future humans could be eliminated if they succeed in creating a “technophilic, interplanetary” species. Torsten and Octavian climb down from the banquette and run around the restaurant, and every so often, Malcolm threatens them - “If you go to the door again, Torsten, you’re getting bopped” - before loading new cartoons.
For someone dedicated to helping people have as many babies as possible, Malcolm doesn’t seem to like children very much.
Maybe he noticed how appalled I was when he hit Torsten. On the way back to the farmhouse, Malcolm tells me that he and Simone have developed a parenting style based on something she observed when she saw tigers in the wild: they react to bad behaviour from their cubs with a paw, a quick negative response in the moment, which they find very effective with their own kids. “I was just giving you the context so you don’t think I’m abusive or something,” he says."
- "America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’", The Guardian
Hitting is not the only way they abuse their children. They also refuse to heat their house and keep their children freezing, among other things.
56:54They are North Korea.
Also muslim contry rich men can have 4 wife and many children
But they also don't have a replacement birth rate.
No the richer you are the higher your birthrate.
If you want to have kids then come to India and spend a few days in Bihar, West Bengal, and East Utter Pradesh. Or the slums of Delhi and Mumbai which are already famous among Western media.
You will drop your every reason to have kids.
The whole country's fertility rates are down 2.0 except for these areas which are at 6. Look at their religion, poverty, sanitation quality, crime rate and local govt policies and you will get your answer
Well, in Israel the orthodox jews are known to hv many children , like 5 and up. So that subgroup compensates for the western outlook of the rest of the israelis. I see the mormons having a similar social fabric as the orthodox jews and they also hv lots of kids. Can we the world replicatecthese 2 social constructs to increase number of kids. I think not.
Two ethnic groups are having many children in Israel, the Ultra Orthodox Jews and the Arabs with Palestinians with Jewish nationality, the secular Jews have low birth rates but higher than those in other developed countries. The Ultra Orthodox Jews reject the modern style and mentality of life, so they isolate themselves from other Jews, the Palestinians suffer segregation from the Jews so they are also isolated members of other Jews despite living in the same territory or even having the nationality.
You have zero stats on this. Mormons have less fertility than Nebraska and South Dakota.
Actually nonreligious Jews are also having 3-4 children as well, that was what broke the stat. Of course not every single nonreligious Israeli marries and has kids, but the norm for nonreligious… the supercharging of the growth comes from the religious, also some of their kids become nonreligious…
@@jsbrads1 Just like saying there are many families who are just like Elon Musk in Korea and who can actually afford to pay for nannies or hv their extended families like moms, sisters help take care of the kids, but is that the norm, far from it . And I bet S Korea is one of the countries with the most generous incentives to raise a family just like many Western countries. But obviously, this isn't enough. Maybe in Jewish upbringing, it's been hammered in them that they need to reproduce for the sake of survival of the tribe and that's why the some of the young take it seriously.
@@bobmorane4926 I don’t claim to understand the secret sauce, just observing the stats.
Problem is that even if we made childcare, delivery and housing cheap or free, we still have a culture that is very anti natal.
my guess is just a philosophy for life has been lost, so if people dont have anything to do they just go work which ends in more money, but woman with more money and older woman are just not attractive anymore making it very unlikely for having children
solution: ECTOGENESIS ( = Hŭxley's Brave New World).
It's too late to do anything
While it's too late to stop demographic collapse, it is possible to broker in a soft landing (rather than a hard landing) and minimize the damage caused as it takes place. That's the focus of the modern pronatalist movement.
Of the richest people in the world, only Elon Musk openly talks about the threat of real depopulation of the Earth and the consequences for the development of our civilization.
yeah since there would be less people buying his cars
People aren't having babies because of wokeness??? Have you been to Korea?? Or Japan?? What a load of nonsense!
If you have been to South Korea, patterns of behavior and mentality tend to be repeated in similar environments regardless of culture, in this case large cities.
Not sure it's wokeness, but feminism/rise of women mixing with hypergamy certainly is there. You have women (often from large cities) with high education and financial stability (but older age) hoping to find men that is of unrealistically high quality (height, wealth, real estate), which causes a total mismatch between men and women's expectations in marriage. And yeah this is pretty much the case about Korea, Japan, and China.
I disagree with you on the solution, but I have huge respect for your ability to critique cultural trends. The most interesting neonatalist interview I’ve watched.
“Obviously we don’t have any responsibility toward a person who hasn’t been born yet” is correct.
I can't stand the rambling. What is he suggesting as a solution?
This is not rambling. He’s highly intelligent
@@pastorg48 Can you summarize his suggestions?
@@kev2582 he mentions two things. Give hope and a revival of young people to see they have a report the next generation to reproduce.
Foreign brides
If North Korea manages to solve its birth decline before South Korea, then your grand-children will speak of "the liberation of Seoul" by the People's Army of Korea. Future Koreans will know South Korea in the same way that today's Vietnamese know South Vietnam.
the best solution is make adoption for unwanted children from other countries, raise them from little
there are tons of orphans
If they don't want to have kids naturally, then they are also going to not want to adopt kids.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call the temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal… Even in death I serve the Omnissiah.
Ukraine and Russia before the war would half their population after a generation, now they may have lost much more, millions of young women left Ukraine, millions of young men fled Russia, they may lose more than half.
Thumbnail sucks
The Korean birthrate isn't a problem, it's a SOUTH Korean problem. The north will be just fine.
I love this guys take on the gene editing portion.
Im planning on buying eggs from certain countries the. Paying for a surrogate mother.
I live in New Zealand and I have five kids . This is an issue I think about quite a bit. Would certainly like to have more children and if something happened to my wife, I would probably remarry and have more children
교회에서 출산을 좀 더 강조했으면 좋겠는데 요즘 교회들도 신도들 눈치보느라 그런 설교 잘 안하더라고요.
To the people that have no kids, I ask this simple question: Who will bury you?
My cats
I want kids, but I can't make the leap because finances are uncertain. Everything goes up in price .
@@alexViera0314Im the same
Do the dead even care about this?
The government most likely, or my household robots maybe. It doesn't matter too much.
This is a joke? That's the most stupid thint I've heard on the internet. It is like someone call3d a little child to give "solutions" to a compl3x problem. And just take it all conpketaly wrong. HUAHUAHUA!!!
ARTIFICIAL WOMBS
😃 Who will pay for that womb? And who will pay the child support? Who will bottle feed at 2 AM? 🍼 Who will change diapers? How much will you pay them to do it? 😃
@@natashadickson4819 state funded daycare workers
State funded grandparents @@Samuel-vw2wy
@@Samuel-vw2wy 😃 Increase your tax burdens to fund state farms producing unloved human livestock. Sounds worse than foster care. But, whatever... 😃
@@natashadickson4819 SAME AS NOW. The parents.
Artificial wombs come in 5 years.. that can fix the situation.
Highly doubt it.
@@nikkili8944 doubt artificial wombs will come or doubt that artificial wombs can fix the problem?
The world had a stable birthrate until feminism
The world had a stable birthrate until the industrial revolution
You mean until capitalism, industrialisation and birth control
What's the solution? Well, you need to be very honest about what the problem is to get to the solution. The problem is clearly women choosing not to have children. how do you solve it? You restrict the amount of choices women can make, ban social media, drop any incentive for them in education and the workforce. The choice needs to be either choose to have children or starve. In one generation feminism would have been forgotten and the natural balance will be restored.
Luckily Malcom is not an incel like you, he supports healthy feminism
Doesnt even matter. This will not happen anytime soon. But maybe after some countries start collapsing this is what will happen in some cultures. Because many feminists dont have the long term thinking to save the future women lol
So, slavery-induced fertility? That's your solution? This is schizo posting at its worst. 🤦♂️
alpacacomentadora413
Pretty soon incels are going to surround you. Enjoy your rights while you can, missy.
Dumb choices. Under those circumstances the outcome would be cannibalism. See also: Holodomor
Easy. Import firstly Asian men who are willing to marry and stay there. Then bring over others.
Primary concern should be what sectors they work in and affinity for working with children.
They've already imported 150 childcare workers to help new parents in a test to see if it's feasible to help parents. But to really boost baby numbers, get Philippine men and Asian Americans from to come home
Notice how this guy wants to preserve every race but Europeans.