Did it myself in the Banning Pass my first cross country Cessna 150 out of Gillespie Field 1993. You have explained a lot of what happened. Yes it was very scary but got to Thermal with the help of controllers. Thanks guys!!
@@SirDrifto Thanks. Forgot to say I was victim of a Strong Santa Anna The plane faced the mountain wall and fell 3 to 4 thousand feet but it allowed me to regain control with 500ft or less. It was a wake up call !!
Yikes. I'm sure we'll eventually find out who it was and get the whole story, either way, he didn't panic and pulled it out with inches to spare, and he, and many pilots, get got a lesson out of it.
Sounds like you are learning energy management in a properly low powered trainer Sir Drifto. I instructed at Monte Vista, 7611 MSL, years ago in the powerful 85 hp Cessna 140. Lean to max rpm in summer gains 300 rpm fuel energy, level in low ground effect (mountain runways are long) until at cruise airspeed gains about 50% of total energy available, down drainage egress is worth even more if we need it. I did not teach Vx (which is the same as Vy up there) or Vy. Neither was appropriate. Cruise climb was appropriate and when pulling on the yoke doesn't result in climb, push a bit. Nearly all mountain flying in normal powered trainers is maneuvering flight, where energy management is critical as you mentioned. Horizontal space available is generally less than vertical space available so using potential energy of altitude in 1 g turns of any bank angle can be life saving. Without making full use of both thermals and orographic/ridge lift, making the passes in small trainers was not possible. If we spent the hour or so necessary to climb up prior to rising terrain/orographic lift, 12 gallons of fuel energy in a 60 mph max speed Champ or J-3 would not make any fuel stop west of the divide in a 30-50 mph headwind. Attempting to maintain altitude on a summer afternoon in a training class airplane can be fatal. The reports of the accident may say the wind slammed him into the ground. Not true and the wind does not go into terrain...it compresses and the downdraft of 2,000 fpm bottoms out at around 200.' Rather, in a 152 we should pitch down in down air to fly through it quickly. We should pitch up in up air to stay (slow/climb) in it longer. That is the only safe way to maintain altitude in the mountains in summer. Winter wave is an even bigger trip up or down at up to 10,000 fpm. One of our Hueys at Ft. Carson hit a wave at 8,500 and, at flat pitch, went to 17,500 in less than a minute. We got oxygen like the zoomies after that. Don't think your big engine is going to save you in the powerful but manageable rivers of air in the mountains. Manage total energy by using the many deep drainage/ridge-valley-ridge systems in the mountains. And down drainage is guaranteed down all the way to the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific ocean. GPS direct is dangerous in small airplanes because it ignores drainage systems. GPs direct robs total energy both going up to the pass and having a for sure out by turning at 1 g to return to the desert down drainage. The first mission is to turn steep enough to miss the upwind ridge (we ride the up wind on the ridge that is downwind of the valley) and the second mission is to put the pipper (point the nose) on the bottom of the drainage going back down drainage. The only way to safely make the canyon turnback is to bank steep enough to miss the opposite ridge and release back pressure on the stick as soon as we bank. The airplane cannot stall itself. A pilot pulling back on the stick is required. The target of this turn (all energy management turns are to target not heading) is the bottom of the drainage. Good briefing Sir Drifto.
@@jimmydulin928 the fact that you're up at those altitudes with an 85hp 140. Is downright impressive. You have this mountain flying down to a science. I really like that. I need to come fly with you sometime and get some pointers 👌.
I think the 152’s service ceiling is 14.7k--density altitude. He was probably above that and had almost no excess power available to counter downdrafts and rotor winds over the ridge. Pretty foolish thing to do, no matter how good a pilot you are.
I simulated a sort of similar route yesterday in X-Plane 12, and being a hot afternoon model of the real weather, the density altitude factor makes it somewhat dangerous to cross that ridge with a Cessna 152, even at the Buchanan Pass low spot.
Juan Browne absolutely ROASTED this guy. I am not a pilot, but even if i was, i wouldn't try to go from BJC to RIL in a 152, OF COURSE it could be done, but i wouldn't go there.
Did it myself in the Banning Pass my first cross country Cessna 150 out of Gillespie Field 1993. You have explained a lot of what happened. Yes it was very scary but got to Thermal with the help of controllers. Thanks guys!!
Wow that’s impressive
@@SirDrifto Thanks. Forgot to say I was victim of a Strong Santa Anna The plane faced the mountain wall and fell 3 to 4 thousand feet but it allowed me to regain control with 500ft or less. It was a wake up call !!
Yikes. I'm sure we'll eventually find out who it was and get the whole story, either way, he didn't panic and pulled it out with inches to spare, and he, and many pilots, get got a lesson out of it.
WOWw THATS ALL JUST WOW" cheers./ il remember that one for a long time.
Sounds like you are learning energy management in a properly low powered trainer Sir Drifto. I instructed at Monte Vista, 7611 MSL, years ago in the powerful 85 hp Cessna 140. Lean to max rpm in summer gains 300 rpm fuel energy, level in low ground effect (mountain runways are long) until at cruise airspeed gains about 50% of total energy available, down drainage egress is worth even more if we need it. I did not teach Vx (which is the same as Vy up there) or Vy. Neither was appropriate. Cruise climb was appropriate and when pulling on the yoke doesn't result in climb, push a bit. Nearly all mountain flying in normal powered trainers is maneuvering flight, where energy management is critical as you mentioned. Horizontal space available is generally less than vertical space available so using potential energy of altitude in 1 g turns of any bank angle can be life saving. Without making full use of both thermals and orographic/ridge lift, making the passes in small trainers was not possible. If we spent the hour or so necessary to climb up prior to rising terrain/orographic lift, 12 gallons of fuel energy in a 60 mph max speed Champ or J-3 would not make any fuel stop west of the divide in a 30-50 mph headwind. Attempting to maintain altitude on a summer afternoon in a training class airplane can be fatal. The reports of the accident may say the wind slammed him into the ground. Not true and the wind does not go into terrain...it compresses and the downdraft of 2,000 fpm bottoms out at around 200.' Rather, in a 152 we should pitch down in down air to fly through it quickly. We should pitch up in up air to stay (slow/climb) in it longer. That is the only safe way to maintain altitude in the mountains in summer. Winter wave is an even bigger trip up or down at up to 10,000 fpm. One of our Hueys at Ft. Carson hit a wave at 8,500 and, at flat pitch, went to 17,500 in less than a minute. We got oxygen like the zoomies after that. Don't think your big engine is going to save you in the powerful but manageable rivers of air in the mountains. Manage total energy by using the many deep drainage/ridge-valley-ridge systems in the mountains. And down drainage is guaranteed down all the way to the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific ocean. GPS direct is dangerous in small airplanes because it ignores drainage systems. GPs direct robs total energy both going up to the pass and having a for sure out by turning at 1 g to return to the desert down drainage. The first mission is to turn steep enough to miss the upwind ridge (we ride the up wind on the ridge that is downwind of the valley) and the second mission is to put the pipper (point the nose) on the bottom of the drainage going back down drainage. The only way to safely make the canyon turnback is to bank steep enough to miss the opposite ridge and release back pressure on the stick as soon as we bank. The airplane cannot stall itself. A pilot pulling back on the stick is required. The target of this turn (all energy management turns are to target not heading) is the bottom of the drainage.
Good briefing Sir Drifto.
@@jimmydulin928 the fact that you're up at those altitudes with an 85hp 140. Is downright impressive. You have this mountain flying down to a science. I really like that. I need to come fly with you sometime and get some pointers 👌.
I’m sure he hoped nobody saw that lol
@@jasontipton8430that's what I was thinking 🤣
Yeah it was !!!!!
I think the 152’s service ceiling is 14.7k--density altitude. He was probably above that and had almost no excess power available to counter downdrafts and rotor winds over the ridge. Pretty foolish thing to do, no matter how good a pilot you are.
@@stephenabbott3623 you're right I said 12k 🤣🤦♂️
Missed it by this much . 🤏
@@ozzielinkin it was a close cigar 😅
Looks like a rc plane
I simulated a sort of similar route yesterday in X-Plane 12, and being a hot afternoon model of the real weather, the density altitude factor makes it somewhat dangerous to cross that ridge with a Cessna 152, even at the Buchanan Pass low spot.
instructor.
Blancolirio did a good review on this. One VERY lucky pilot.
Juan Browne absolutely ROASTED this guy. I am not a pilot, but even if i was, i wouldn't try to go from BJC to RIL in a 152, OF COURSE it could be done, but i wouldn't go there.
Hello this is the FAA calling, we need to talk.😂😂😂
😂😂😂