Excellent tutorial Muddy. I can't help but wonder if any of the sevice technicians at dealerships around the world perform these types of tasks with the attention to detail that you do. Your videos give me a standard with which to judge my own work. Great stuff.
Thanks for sharing this video. You know they say a picture paints a thousand words? Well a video paints a million. Seeing it done makes it much less daunting to start the job yourself now. Cheers.
blacktiger955i Glad it can help you. It isnt that bad of a job to do. Just make sure you turn the engine over by hand first when its back together then if anything isnt timed up properly you will know without bending valves
as a follow up, I finally got the bike back together with the timing marks all lined up. My bike has 88,ooo miles on it, so after nothing would line up as easy as you did in the video, I suspected the timing chain. I bought a new one but it took forever to arrive since it had to come from England. Anyway, with the new timing chain, everything lined up perfect on the first try. Thank you for your great instructional videos!
Thanks so much for the video,I have a Haynes manual for my bike but watching you do it makes it so much easier.I'm glad I finally did this because at 27,000 miles all of my exhaust valves were tight,the intakes were good,I bought the bike from the original owner who told me everything was checked on schedule but I doubt this was done,I guess it's possible but they were pretty tight.
LEGEND!! Just what i was after i spent way to long trying to figure that out about the end clip not locking in place but had to slide it across hahaha little things. Cheers Dude!.
Cool video, I don't own a Tiger but it was useful to see the process as I have only every done this type of work on cars with cambelts rather than chain drive.
toe knee Thanks. If teaching it is anything like filming it I'd rather give it a miss :-) I am thinking about maybe doing a bit of mobile servicing though
You'd do well, i bet! And you make the repairs you film, look very easy. As someone who's worked on my own bikes since they were peddle powered and right on up to my road motorcycles, I'm impressed!
Thanks for all this really great info sir, I'm almost done shimming but on #2 exhaust the shim slipped out of the bucket and down the space between the valve spring and case cavity for the valve. I can't see it but I know it's down there I tried the magnetic tool to move Avalon, any suggestions sir? Thanks in advance. Damm I was half way through and so proud of myself up to this point🤔
Excellent video, and so thorough. I was wondering if you knew the part number for the o-ring that goes over the spark plug hole that does not come in the kit? Thank you for all of your videos.
Very informative, thanks. Why does your video show the exhaust and inlet cam's to be reversed on your bike, and you put them back that way too ? Did you film it through mirrors or is my astigmatism getting worse. Surely the exhaust cam goes at the front of the engine? Confused of Horley.
You need to see what the gap is between the cam and bucket. If it’s out of spec then need to see what shim is already fitted then change it to one bigger or smaller that makes the gap right.
Great video. thanks. I was wondering if you measured the diameter of the shims. I am planning to make valve check and adjustment myself and wanted to order shims before I actually take the engine apart.
Punch Mark / Timing Question: Took apart, noticed that when the camshaft timing marks lined up, the crank punch mark and groove did not perfectly line up also. Rotated the engine a few times thinking I must’ve missed the alignment, but was never able to have BOTH camshaft lines AND the punch mark / groove line up. The punch mark was about 2-3 mm left (clockwise) from the groove, or camshaft lines were a few degrees off. Shrugged, went ahead, adjusted (tight) valves and put back to the same timing position. All complete, bike seems to run great but noticeably louder, more pronounced ticking. Wondering after the fact if the slightly misaligned punch mark is a problem? ( Also: Thanks for this and your other epicly awesome videos muddy! )
That’s not that bad mileage, thought it was going to be more. Should be alright still, if it was a tooth out you would know about it. If it’s gone back in the same place then just leave. Could try a new cam chain next time it’s apart if it looks worse
Hello MUddy, Thank you for your videos. How do you adjust camshaft timing in this particular bike. I notice the camshaft assembly both Inlet and exhaust do not have a cutout for Triumph Timing Tool?
Hi, Muddy thanks for your interesting videos, just want you ask my engine suffer off accident and the camshaft chain snapped. Can you tell me the pistons still can be operate or they broken due off stopping camshafts? Engine turning don't hear any noise just weak compression. Thanks for any help, Regards Paul
Keep up the good work on the video's. My confidence level increases every time I watch. My number one passion is motorcycles,dirt or road it doesn't matter. What did you purchase after selling the XC? Cheers Ron W.
I've bought a van, pick it up next week. Gonna try setting up as a mobile mechanic. Hopefully it will pay more than my current job and I can afford another bike too
You shouldn't have any trouble finding work,you look like you know what your doing. Too bad your in Britain and not in Canada. Good luck with your new plan. Cheers Ron
Hey Muddy, Got it mostly back together, when I line up the “line & dot” perfectly, the two eights ( 8- -8) are off slightly. I think I remember it being a little off when I disassembled it, but I’m not certain. It might be one tooth off. Should I take it back apart and see if I can get it perfect?
What’s the mileage on it? It might just be a bit of cam chain stretch. If it was a tooth out you would know. Turn it over by hand first, if you can turn it over a few rotations it’s more than likely just due to chain stretch
@@MuddySump 26k miles. Yes I just messed with it, and I’m sure you are correct, it’s chain stretch. Thanks for responding! You are a leader in our lil Tiger community.
Hello Muddy, Thank you for your videos. How do you adjust camshaft timing in this particular bike? I notice the camshaft assembly both Inlet and exhaust do not have a cutout for Triumph Timing Tool? I have a 2011 Triumph Tiger XC with 22,000 miles and I don't think the valves have ever been checked. The motorcycle runs well, but not good on MPG
Good day and thanks for putting this video out its been helpful. I got one question. If you have to do a shim adjustment, say on the exhaust side as they are too tight. The manual says to losen camshaft sprocket fixings. If I do this it leads to re doing the timing with speciality tools. Do I need to re time after the first adjustment? I'm at 35k km. TIA
Does your bike have the adjustable sprockets? You can still just take it apart the normal way like in the videos to adjust the shims. The timing adjustment takes the initial stretch out of the cam chain, I’ve seen loads of bikes that are supposed to have had the service done at a dealership and not had the adjustment done. You can tell because there’s paint dots on the factory screws and the ones you get to replace them don’t have them on.
Thanks for you fast reply muddysump, I think there's a missunderstanding here. In the min. 7:41, I meant that in what is suppose to be the inlet camshaft wheel it can read 'ex', and on the other 'in'. Is that right or I missing a basic notion?
Ah right, I was looking at the wrong video before, I was looking at the shim check one :-) It's the same sprocket part on both sets of cams, you've just got to make sure its the number 8 marked on the sprocket that are facing each other. You can't mix the cams up though so make sure you keep them separated and remember which one is which when you take them out
No. Do you mean you can’t get it out of the engine or can’t get it passed the frame? It should push itself out of the engine when undoing the screws. I think it only comes passed the frame one way. Keep turning it and find the way it just clears the frame.
Hi Muddy, I'm closing downto 35k miles and I will be doing valves guided by your video. Do you think I should check cam chain lengh? If yes, should I just remove that bolt in the middle to remove the chain? Thank you for your answer
Could you tell why to do this? I have a 2012 Tiger 800 and whistling noise really annoying even with earplugs on cruise speed. Is this maintenance job has to do with eliminating this "whistle"? I understand triple inline engine has the "character" and whistle is a part of it. But noise is too loud and I don't know is it ok or not...
The whistling is the throttle body noise on the triumphs. They all do it, you can tell when a triumph is coming down the street by it 😄 The shim adjustment is to make sure the valves open and close at the right time. The exhaust clearances usually tighten so the valve will be open too long
Hi, I purchased a 2013 tiger 800 with 18k on the clock, the owner said he checked the valves recently and they didn't need adjusting. Is that likely after 18k of wear?
12k is when they should have been checked. The only time I see them been in spec is if it’s been used for long rides and not just commuting a few miles to work and back
Muddy, let's say I had oil on my fingers when I was placing a shim back on the exhaust side of #1. I removed my finger, but the shim stuck to it and disappeared somewhere. I recorded the number prior to losing it, but I'm terrified it fell somewhere it absolutely shouldn't be. Where is the worst place it could have ended up?
Great videos!I have a 2012 xc which has a bit of a ticking when cold but when the engine is hot it is more of a clatter and the engine is hard to start (not sure if it is related) once cooled off it goes back to the original sound. Is this something you have heard of? I was thinking of reseting the cam chain tensioner to see if that makes a difference. Can you tell me just to do that does the tank etc have to come off or can I do it with the plugs still in? Keep up the good work!
You only need to reset the cam chain tensioner when you’ve got the cams out so you can build the engine back up without the tension on the chain. Does it still turn over trying to start when it’s hot or does it not even do that? Could be the starter motor if not
Thanks for your quick reply. I can hear the starter motor for probably a second or so then it stops but when it is left to cool it starts straight away. Regarding the noise if it is slack in the cam chain would that make the noise louder when engine is hot? I am drawing a bit of a blank as to where to start with it, I don't really want to take it to Triumph due to the cost so would rather fix it myself if possible.
Darren Watmough it could be a stretched cam chain but the bikes do have a noisy engine, some louder than others. I’ve changed a tension and chain for somebody before and it was exactly the same afterwards
Thanks again. For peace of mind i am going to follow your videos and check valve clearances etc and see if anything looks obvious, failing that I will take it to a mechanic to see if they can diagnose the issue.
Great video, thank you. Question. In your video around 9:45 you start to realign the timing marks. I only removed the exhaust cam and for the life of me I can't get all the marks to line up. you make it look so easy. I have the bottom dot and dash lined up, but just can't get the two 8's on the cams to line up. I was at it for two hours last night. What am I missing? and on the one attempt to tighten up the cam cover...it all went out of wack, I think due to having to compress some of the valves while tightening the cover. Any tips? and yes I have something holding cam tensioner per your video. once again thanks.
Are you putting the chain over the exhaust cam first? The ladder plate should be sitting down nearly all the way when you put it on. You shouldn’t be screwing it down and pushing valves down with a cam. Have you got the cam chain tensioner removed? Send me some pictures to service@muddysump.com if you want me to have a look see if I can see anything
I'm at work so will send pictures later. yes, chain over exhaust cam chain first just like your video. yes cam chain tensioner is removed. I have 88k miles on my bike. Shop said it was ok to reuse old timing chain, could it be stretched or worn out? Every time I get everything close to being lined up....it just seems like the two 8 marks are slightly off. As for the ladder plate. Are you saying that while tightening it down, it is not having to compress any of the valve springs... because it seems like at top dead center there would be at least one or two cam lobes that would be in a position that required them to push a spring and valve down. This is only a thought... don't know if that is the case or not. On my first attempt to bolt it down it set in place flush and bolted right up.... but once bolted, marks were no longer close. In previous attempts with chain tensioner out and a tool in to hold tension... turned engine over with lower nut/wrench and the whole chain jumped a tooth about every other turn of the wrench. I'm very mechanically inclined yet extremely frustrated at how difficult my process is proceeding. thanks
When the dot mark and line on the primary gear are spot on, the lines on the camshaft sprockets did not align perfectly on mine. So I figured the cam chain must be stretched( 30k bike with track days). I replaced it and behold, everything lines up perfectly. However the dreaded cam chain rattle from cold has returned now! I had this 2 years ago. I thought that happens when the chain is loose, yet it rattles with a brand new tight chain. Any hints on how to solve this?
Is it not just the cam chain tensioner until the oil pressure builds up in it again? They sometimes don’t hold the oil so rattle for a few seconds till pressures again.
I adjusted my valves on my 2016 but now when I start the bike there's a loud clicking/knocking noise. May be coming from the cam chain... do you know what I could have done wrong? How do i know if I have a faulty tensioner?
Not too bad if you take your time. Might be a bit of a pain if you have to leave it in pieces though if don’t already have shims to replace if any that need adjusting
@@MuddySump how they both have IN and EX written when clearly IN mean intake and EX mean exhaust did you flip the cam before or it is part of design of the engine ?
67 Amri it’s just on the part. They probably use the same sprockets on a few different models cams. I don’t even know why they have them on, they don’t get used for timing the engine up.
@@MuddySump no i think the cams and cam sprocket have very important job to make engine in time if not it wouldn't tell you in manual when going to adjust the valve shim with pacific clearance or would not tell you to make sure of crankshaft in top daed center position ....if they are using the same sprocket in all model that make every job you would do in your own motorcycle very hard because you couldn't trust them ... weird
67 Amri I know the 675 uses those sprockets too cause the timing lines with the 8 face each other on the 800’s and the lines without the 8’s face each other on the 675’s. They changed on the later models though cause there is just a mark on the camshaft to go by now.
Triumph sell service kits with the parts you need in them. I think there’s a video showing the kit too but it’s been updated since that video and has more bits in
Wait what? Are we supposed to measure that little shim? And if it's too small install a new one? Sorry but this is all new to me. Thanks for the video! 😁
Hey @muddysump , I got a little ahead of myself and took off the cams without turning the engine to TDC and I didn't note which cam was intake and exhaust, any tips for sorting this out?
Jean-Pierre Ledoux I’m sure you have got this sorted by now, but for anyone else reading this, with the cams removed, all of the valves are completely shut. So there should be no danger of turning the engine over til the timing marks meet at the bottom. Be very careful of not damaging your cam chain, and do like he did in the video and keep all the slack on the chain tensioner side when reinstalling the cams. For the future, mark the chain and gears with a dot of finger nail polish or a paint marker, to make sure you install the chain back in the same grooves as you removed it.
Thanks for the video buddy, where abouts are you based, as I'm looking at a triumph tiger 800 tomorrow with 10k miles on and I would like to get this service done at 12k miles really :) where abouts in the uk do you live and would you be willing to help me out? Thanks :)
Hi Muddy: I have a problem. On removing the cam cover to check the valves I immediately noticed that camshaft sprockets do not have the markings shown in your video and it appears that the sprockets are able to be rotated on the cams. The bosses at the end of the camshafts do have a line machined into them - do I use that in lieu of the usual marks?
Did you recheck the clearances you adjusted afterwards? Is the ticking when it’s running or when turning it over by hand still before running it? The tensioner makes noise if it hasn’t run yet cause there is no oil in it yet. The engines can make noise too though so probably nothing to worry about
Hey Muddy help me out! I’ve changed the shims three times on the exhaust valves, I keep going smaller on shims, but when I get it back together and remeasure to confirm, I see no change, the gap has not increased.
@@MuddySump Yes correct. I measure the exhaust valve clearance at .15mm, do the math: .15mm - .35mm (spec) + 2.25mm (old shim) = 2.05mm (new shim). Then get it all back together, expect a satisfying check of my work, and discover a frustrating measure of .15mm. So I repeat, do math again, put a .2 mm smaller shim and still the gap seams unchanged. I feel I must be missing something important or obvious. But I’m quite methodical in my work, and very familiar with the feeler gauge at this point.
I did the shims with a friend who happens to be more capable than me. Everything went smooth and the motor runs great but the engine light is on. Any thoughts as to why the light is on? We took the tank off again and checked all the connections and everything is ok.
MuddySump yes. We accidentally forgot a connection, took the tank off and reconnected it. It's been 3 weeks of riding now with no limp mode. The light is still on though. Perhaps the code needs to be cleared by the dealer service.
Hi: I am having a problem with the cam chain tensioner -when I push the plunger down the snap ring spring wont seem to engage so the plunger doesn't set - does this mean a replacement tensioner assembly or can you get a new snap spring?
Malcolm Bowling: I managed to fix the problem by bending out the clip a bit and that did the trick. Why that should happen I don't know. Anyway no need to buy a horrendously expensive new tensioner and thanks for your reply.
Mudd, I looked at the manual to see when cam chain need to be replace, how to check wear of the chain etc but there is no information. Do you have an idea when it should be done?
MuddySump Morning mate. I checked both and there is no information or I can't see it. Btw, my tiger have 33k miles now so I don't think it needs to be change but it's good to know for a future
@@victheoutdoor6221 A little late but hopefully this helps. Pull the chain from the bike and measure 23 links (preferably hanging from a hook with some weight attached to the bottom. Chain should be under 149.48mm in length. If its over, manual says to replace.
+Fcorrea2002 it's quite easy. Fuel tank off, air box off, throttle bodies off then you can get to the screws keeping the starter motor on. Take those out then you can wiggle the starter motor out.
Get a Harley. All you’ve got to do with those is change the oil. Worked there before triumph and wondered why I’ve gone somewhere to do more work for the same money 😅
@@MuddySump Thank you for this very quick answer. So just the cylinder head can't go out of the frame alone. I have to take all the engine out first and after remove the cylinder head. Great video.
David! I might have messed the TDC alignment behind the crank case. The cams and tensioner have been removed now, is it safe to turn the engine until I get the dot to align with the line in this condition? I want to reinstall the cams.
@@MuddySump Thank you. One last thing. Once the new shims are in, cam ladder back on, do I need to install the tensioner too before measuring clearances again?
The manual calls for turning the crank backwards 1/4 turn before doing 4 CW Turns. Doing that has always resulted in a jumped tooth for me, requiring repetition of all steps (remove tensioner, ladder, camshafts, reset...). The manual is utter garbage at times.
@@MuddySump I’m having a moment lol. Looked at time 2:40 and see EX and IN on the cam sprockets. This clearly doesn’t mean what I thought it meant then lol. Your reply makes better sense than me haha. I’m about to do this at the weekend, video helped loads. Thanks.
good. thats the whole idea of doing the videos. im going to write a blog post with more info and pictures of the torque sequence etc. I feel it was quite complicated trying to explain it all
You're the dude I see in a bunch of forums answering every question I've had in my mind! You are a hero and you may not even know it!
Thanks 😎
Thank you for putting this series of maintenance videos together. They are very well presented in a complete yet concise manner.
Thanks 👍🏻
Excellent tutorial Muddy. I can't help but wonder if any of the sevice technicians at dealerships around the world perform these types of tasks with the attention to detail that you do. Your videos give me a standard with which to judge my own work. Great stuff.
Simon Holmes Thanks, I've got more time to do it at home than what you would get to do the job at work
Thanks for sharing this video. You know they say a picture paints a thousand words? Well a video paints a million. Seeing it done makes it much less daunting to start the job yourself now. Cheers.
blacktiger955i Glad it can help you. It isnt that bad of a job to do. Just make sure you turn the engine over by hand first when its back together then if anything isnt timed up properly you will know without bending valves
as a follow up, I finally got the bike back together with the timing marks all lined up. My bike has 88,ooo miles on it, so after nothing would line up as easy as you did in the video, I suspected the timing chain. I bought a new one but it took forever to arrive since it had to come from England. Anyway, with the new timing chain, everything lined up perfect on the first try. Thank you for your great instructional videos!
👍🏼
What can I say Muddy, yet another awesome video with such attention to detail, you my friend make top quality "How To" vids, up there with the pros :)
Boycie Swindon Thanks Boycie
You are very thorough Muddy. I’m a long way off from doing this thankfully.
Thanks so much for the video,I have a Haynes manual for my bike but watching you do it makes it so much easier.I'm glad I finally did this because at 27,000 miles all of my exhaust valves were tight,the intakes were good,I bought the bike from the original owner who told me everything was checked on schedule but I doubt this was done,I guess it's possible but they were pretty tight.
👍🏻 they won’t have been done at 12k. They’ll have been tight by then then stay where they are. They’re usually alright still when checked again at 24k
I do not even have a motorbike anymore but I love watching your videos to learn motorcycle maintenance. Now if only you could do a video on Zen!
+Jonathan K thanks 👍🏼
Fantastic tutorial!! Helped me greatly with this job. Can’t thank you enough!! Keep up the good work👍👍
Thanks 👍🏻
Invaluable series of videos. Thanks for sharing dude, made my maintenance SO much easier. 👍
Thanks. Glad they helped 👍🏻
Muddy once again your videos are brilliant, you make this complex job look plain and simple and i don't mean this in a bad way. Thank you for sharing.
Dean Child Thank Dean :-)
Im going too check the Shim adjustment on my daytona 675, i see is almost the same motor disign !
You really help me, thank you man !! :D
Yes. Exactly the same procedure apart from the markings on the cam sprockets.
Thank you again for this great video, Muddy! It is really too bad that you have sold the Tiger. I will miss your videos.
Tigertrail Thanks, think I've just got one more to edit and upload
great video! I think i can tackle the 24,000 mile service myself now without paying a dealer £700!
👍🏼 if the valves got adjusted at 12k then they might be alright still
Excellent work on all your videos MS!!!
Thanks 👍🏼
LEGEND!! Just what i was after i spent way to long trying to figure that out about the end clip not locking in place but had to slide it across hahaha little things. Cheers Dude!.
👍🏻
Cool video, I don't own a Tiger but it was useful to see the process as I have only every done this type of work on cars with cambelts rather than chain drive.
buaan Thanks, every bike is pretty much the same just with different timing marks
Just Bought a 2016 Tiger 800 XRX. Nicely done video. My hats off to you!
+windsurfed1 thanks. Nice bike.
WOW what can I say, fantastic tuition and easy to follow guide. A+
Thanks 👍🏼
Another superb video from MuddySump!
Thanks
Thank you. Great informative video.
Thanks
Thank you so much for this. Very helpful
Thanks
Superb, many thanks.
fantastic job Muddy Sump.....you should teach engine maintenance.
toe knee Thanks. If teaching it is anything like filming it I'd rather give it a miss :-) I am thinking about maybe doing a bit of mobile servicing though
You'd do well, i bet! And you make the repairs you film, look very easy. As someone who's worked on my own bikes since they were peddle powered and right on up to my road motorcycles, I'm impressed!
Thanks for all this really great info sir, I'm almost done shimming but on #2 exhaust the shim slipped out of the bucket and down the space between the valve spring and case cavity for the valve. I can't see it but I know it's down there I tried the magnetic tool to move Avalon, any suggestions sir? Thanks in advance. Damm I was half way through and so proud of myself up to this point🤔
Ron Robinson how did this play out?
Excellent video, and so thorough. I was wondering if you knew the part number for the o-ring that goes over the spark plug hole that does not come in the kit? Thank you for all of your videos.
They do start coming in the kits now if you order a kit. If not they’re T3600188
I’ve just been quoted £780 for major service which includes this job, but does not cover reshimming the valves if needed
Some dealerships are around £1000. I’ve heard Staffordshire triumph charge £1205 for 12k service
Very informative, thanks. Why does your video show the exhaust and inlet cam's to be reversed on your bike, and you put them back that way too ? Did you film it through mirrors or is my astigmatism getting worse. Surely the exhaust cam goes at the front of the engine?
Confused of Horley.
I think it has IN and EX on both of the cam sprockets, don’t know why
Great video so clear. I watched this and then decided to pay triumph man the £800 to do it. Not sure how you decide what size shims you need
You need to see what the gap is between the cam and bucket. If it’s out of spec then need to see what shim is already fitted then change it to one bigger or smaller that makes the gap right.
Great video. thanks. I was wondering if you measured the diameter of the shims. I am planning to make valve check and adjustment myself and wanted to order shims before I actually take the engine apart.
Hi, it's 7.48mm shims for the tiger. Thanks
Thank you for this video, super helpful!
No problem 👍🏼
very good video thanks alot
Punch Mark / Timing Question:
Took apart, noticed that when the camshaft timing marks lined up, the crank punch mark and groove did not perfectly line up also.
Rotated the engine a few times thinking I must’ve missed the alignment, but was never able to have BOTH camshaft lines AND the punch mark / groove line up. The punch mark was about 2-3 mm left (clockwise) from the groove, or camshaft lines were a few degrees off.
Shrugged, went ahead, adjusted (tight) valves and put back to the same timing position.
All complete, bike seems to run great but noticeably louder, more pronounced ticking.
Wondering after the fact if the slightly misaligned punch mark is a problem?
( Also: Thanks for this and your other epicly awesome videos muddy! )
What’s the mileage on your bike? Might be cam chain stretch
Ahh! Good point!
27,000 kms on a 2012 xc
Valves had about half the spec clearance across the board.
That’s not that bad mileage, thought it was going to be more. Should be alright still, if it was a tooth out you would know about it. If it’s gone back in the same place then just leave. Could try a new cam chain next time it’s apart if it looks worse
you’re a saint muddy! thank you for the input 🙏
Hello MUddy, Thank you for your videos. How do you adjust camshaft timing in this particular bike. I notice the camshaft assembly both Inlet and exhaust do not have a cutout for Triumph Timing Tool?
Replied to email
Hi, Muddy thanks for your interesting videos, just want you ask my engine suffer off accident and the camshaft chain snapped. Can you tell me the pistons still can be operate or they broken due off stopping camshafts? Engine turning don't hear any noise just weak compression. Thanks for any help, Regards Paul
The pistons could have bent the valves. If it hasn’t got proper compression then they’re not seating in the head properly.
@@MuddySump thanks for your reply
Great video muddy!
Markus Vikberg Thanks :-)
+MuddySump you know, this vid made me save almost 650£
Thanks for all your video's.Ron W.
No worries 👍
Keep up the good work on the video's.
My confidence level increases every time I watch.
My number one passion is motorcycles,dirt or road it doesn't matter.
What did you purchase after selling the XC?
Cheers
Ron W.
I've bought a van, pick it up next week. Gonna try setting up as a mobile mechanic. Hopefully it will pay more than my current job and I can afford another bike too
You shouldn't have any trouble finding work,you look like you know what your doing.
Too bad your in Britain and not in Canada.
Good luck with your new plan.
Cheers
Ron
Hey Muddy,
Got it mostly back together, when I line up the “line & dot” perfectly, the two eights ( 8- -8) are off slightly. I think I remember it being a little off when I disassembled it, but I’m not certain. It might be one tooth off. Should I take it back apart and see if I can get it perfect?
What’s the mileage on it? It might just be a bit of cam chain stretch. If it was a tooth out you would know. Turn it over by hand first, if you can turn it over a few rotations it’s more than likely just due to chain stretch
@@MuddySump
26k miles.
Yes I just messed with it, and I’m sure you are correct, it’s chain stretch. Thanks for responding! You are a leader in our lil Tiger community.
Hello Muddy,
Thank you for your videos.
How do you adjust camshaft timing in this particular bike?
I notice the camshaft assembly both Inlet and exhaust do not have a cutout for Triumph Timing Tool?
I have a 2011 Triumph Tiger XC with 22,000 miles and I don't think the valves have ever been checked. The motorcycle runs well, but not good on MPG
Timings slots didn’t start till around 2014
Thanks again! I highly appreciate your help and feed back!
Good day and thanks for putting this video out its been helpful. I got one question. If you have to do a shim adjustment, say on the exhaust side as they are too tight. The manual says to losen camshaft sprocket fixings. If I do this it leads to re doing the timing with speciality tools. Do I need to re time after the first adjustment? I'm at 35k km.
TIA
Does your bike have the adjustable sprockets? You can still just take it apart the normal way like in the videos to adjust the shims.
The timing adjustment takes the initial stretch out of the cam chain, I’ve seen loads of bikes that are supposed to have had the service done at a dealership and not had the adjustment done. You can tell because there’s paint dots on the factory screws and the ones you get to replace them don’t have them on.
@@MuddySump , Yes they are adjustable, I have a 2017 Tiger explorer xca 1215cc. Thanks for the quick response, subbed!
Hi, Thanks for the video. Is it possible to replace the tensioner without removing the crankcase cover and putting a wedge? thanks
No. Once you take the tensioner out the cams will jump a tooth on the cam chain
@@MuddySump thank you very much.
top instructions! thanks a lot for this!
No problem
Thanks for you fast reply muddysump,
I think there's a missunderstanding here. In the min. 7:41, I meant that in what is suppose to be the inlet camshaft wheel it can read 'ex', and on the other 'in'. Is that right or I missing a basic notion?
Ah right, I was looking at the wrong video before, I was looking at the shim check one :-) It's the same sprocket part on both sets of cams, you've just got to make sure its the number 8 marked on the sprocket that are facing each other. You can't mix the cams up though so make sure you keep them separated and remember which one is which when you take them out
I am working on a 2015 street triple. The cam chain tensioner will not come out. Have you seen this before? Excellent videos by the way!
No. Do you mean you can’t get it out of the engine or can’t get it passed the frame? It should push itself out of the engine when undoing the screws. I think it only comes passed the frame one way. Keep turning it and find the way it just clears the frame.
@@MuddySump we ended up having to grind a touch off of the tensioner housing to get it out. Not ideal, but we are on to the next steps.
@@davidmuir6818 it does come out but only one way
Hi Muddy, I'm closing downto 35k miles and I will be doing valves guided by your video. Do you think I should check cam chain lengh? If yes, should I just remove that bolt in the middle to remove the chain? Thank you for your answer
You can if you want to since it’s going to be stripped down anyway. Yes, that extra bolt lets you get it out
Ótima aula. Parabéns
Could you tell why to do this? I have a 2012 Tiger 800 and whistling noise really annoying even with earplugs on cruise speed. Is this maintenance job has to do with eliminating this "whistle"? I understand triple inline engine has the "character" and whistle is a part of it. But noise is too loud and I don't know is it ok or not...
The whistling is the throttle body noise on the triumphs. They all do it, you can tell when a triumph is coming down the street by it 😄
The shim adjustment is to make sure the valves open and close at the right time. The exhaust clearances usually tighten so the valve will be open too long
Hi, I purchased a 2013 tiger 800 with 18k on the clock, the owner said he checked the valves recently and they didn't need adjusting. Is that likely after 18k of wear?
12k is when they should have been checked. The only time I see them been in spec is if it’s been used for long rides and not just commuting a few miles to work and back
Muddy, let's say I had oil on my fingers when I was placing a shim back on the exhaust side of #1. I removed my finger, but the shim stuck to it and disappeared somewhere. I recorded the number prior to losing it, but I'm terrified it fell somewhere it absolutely shouldn't be. Where is the worst place it could have ended up?
Inside the cylinder if it fell down the spark plug hole.
Great explanation.
Thanks 👍🏼
hi. is the 900 serie, 2020models the same [it looks the same] thanks for the info.
I’m not sure, I’ve never worked there n one.
Great videos!I have a 2012 xc which has a bit of a ticking when cold but when the engine is hot it is more of a clatter and the engine is hard to start (not sure if it is related) once cooled off it goes back to the original sound. Is this something you have heard of? I was thinking of reseting the cam chain tensioner to see if that makes a difference. Can you tell me just to do that does the tank etc have to come off or can I do it with the plugs still in? Keep up the good work!
You only need to reset the cam chain tensioner when you’ve got the cams out so you can build the engine back up without the tension on the chain.
Does it still turn over trying to start when it’s hot or does it not even do that? Could be the starter motor if not
Thanks for your quick reply. I can hear the starter motor for probably a second or so then it stops but when it is left to cool it starts straight away. Regarding the noise if it is slack in the cam chain would that make the noise louder when engine is hot? I am drawing a bit of a blank as to where to start with it, I don't really want to take it to Triumph due to the cost so would rather fix it myself if possible.
Darren Watmough it could be a stretched cam chain but the bikes do have a noisy engine, some louder than others. I’ve changed a tension and chain for somebody before and it was exactly the same afterwards
Thanks again. For peace of mind i am going to follow your videos and check valve clearances etc and see if anything looks obvious, failing that I will take it to a mechanic to see if they can diagnose the issue.
Thanx bro 😘
Great video, thank you. Question. In your video around 9:45 you start to realign the timing marks. I only removed the exhaust cam and for the life of me I can't get all the marks to line up. you make it look so easy. I have the bottom dot and dash lined up, but just can't get the two 8's on the cams to line up. I was at it for two hours last night. What am I missing? and on the one attempt to tighten up the cam cover...it all went out of wack, I think due to having to compress some of the valves while tightening the cover. Any tips? and yes I have something holding cam tensioner per your video. once again thanks.
Are you putting the chain over the exhaust cam first? The ladder plate should be sitting down nearly all the way when you put it on. You shouldn’t be screwing it down and pushing valves down with a cam. Have you got the cam chain tensioner removed? Send me some pictures to service@muddysump.com if you want me to have a look see if I can see anything
I'm at work so will send pictures later. yes, chain over exhaust cam chain first just like your video. yes cam chain tensioner is removed. I have 88k miles on my bike. Shop said it was ok to reuse old timing chain, could it be stretched or worn out? Every time I get everything close to being lined up....it just seems like the two 8 marks are slightly off. As for the ladder plate. Are you saying that while tightening it down, it is not having to compress any of the valve springs... because it seems like at top dead center there would be at least one or two cam lobes that would be in a position that required them to push a spring and valve down. This is only a thought... don't know if that is the case or not. On my first attempt to bolt it down it set in place flush and bolted right up.... but once bolted, marks were no longer close. In previous attempts with chain tensioner out and a tool in to hold tension... turned engine over with lower nut/wrench and the whole chain jumped a tooth about every other turn of the wrench. I'm very mechanically inclined yet extremely frustrated at how difficult my process is proceeding. thanks
Thank you ......again !
When the dot mark and line on the primary gear are spot on, the lines on the camshaft sprockets did not align perfectly on mine. So I figured the cam chain must be stretched( 30k bike with track days). I replaced it and behold, everything lines up perfectly. However the dreaded cam chain rattle from cold has returned now! I had this 2 years ago. I thought that happens when the chain is loose, yet it rattles with a brand new tight chain. Any hints on how to solve this?
Is it not just the cam chain tensioner until the oil pressure builds up in it again? They sometimes don’t hold the oil so rattle for a few seconds till pressures again.
@@MuddySump Forgot to mention, the bike is actually a Street triple and the tensioner is spring loaded.
@@paulsr7483 Fit a manual tensioner.Much cheaper than the hydraulic one.I put one on my Street Triple a few years ago and no problems since.
I adjusted my valves on my 2016 but now when I start the bike there's a loud clicking/knocking noise. May be coming from the cam chain... do you know what I could have done wrong? How do i know if I have a faulty tensioner?
+H C did you check the clearances and timing again after you built it back up? The tensioner should only make noise until it fills back up with oil.
Reay good video mate. But way over my my head and out of my comfort zone 🤣
Not too bad if you take your time. Might be a bit of a pain if you have to leave it in pieces though if don’t already have shims to replace if any that need adjusting
Is it me Muddy or is the INLET camshaft shown in the EXHAUST position and vice versa at 2:39? Regards
Sprockets just have the same markings on them
@@MuddySump Agh. OK thanks
Your work has inspired me to carry out my own servicing so thank you very much.
@@neilcullimore5798 👍🏻
i like the video ...but i had to ask why the exhaust cam in the intake valve when the exhaust valve behind the headers ?
They both have IN and EX written on the sprockets. Is that what you mean?
@@MuddySump how they both have IN and EX written when clearly IN mean intake and EX mean exhaust did you flip the cam before or it is part of design of the engine ?
67 Amri it’s just on the part. They probably use the same sprockets on a few different models cams. I don’t even know why they have them on, they don’t get used for timing the engine up.
@@MuddySump no i think the cams and cam sprocket have very important job to make engine in time if not it wouldn't tell you in manual when going to adjust the valve shim with pacific clearance or would not tell you to make sure of crankshaft in top daed center position ....if they are using the same sprocket in all model that make every job you would do in your own motorcycle very hard because you couldn't trust them ... weird
67 Amri I know the 675 uses those sprockets too cause the timing lines with the 8 face each other on the 800’s and the lines without the 8’s face each other on the 675’s. They changed on the later models though cause there is just a mark on the camshaft to go by now.
Hi Dave, is this the same on the 1200 also? thanks
Yes. Different markings and different valve clearances though
you mention a "kit" - does anyone know where to get this? with the crankshaft gasket & so on?
Triumph sell service kits with the parts you need in them.
I think there’s a video showing the kit too but it’s been updated since that video and has more bits in
Wait what? Are we supposed to measure that little shim? And if it's too small install a new one? Sorry but this is all new to me. Thanks for the video! 😁
Yes. Too small or too big. Putting a smaller one in will increase the gap
Hey @muddysump , I got a little ahead of myself and took off the cams without turning the engine to TDC and I didn't note which cam was intake and exhaust, any tips for sorting this out?
Jean-Pierre Ledoux I’m sure you have got this sorted by now, but for anyone else reading this, with the cams removed, all of the valves are completely shut. So there should be no danger of turning the engine over til the timing marks meet at the bottom. Be very careful of not damaging your cam chain, and do like he did in the video and keep all the slack on the chain tensioner side when reinstalling the cams.
For the future, mark the chain and gears with a dot of finger nail polish or a paint marker, to make sure you install the chain back in the same grooves as you removed it.
Thanks for the video buddy, where abouts are you based, as I'm looking at a triumph tiger 800 tomorrow with 10k miles on and I would like to get this service done at 12k miles really :) where abouts in the uk do you live and would you be willing to help me out? Thanks :)
@MuddySump
Where can I buy my shim kit from? Are they 9.5mm wide?
7.48 for the 800’s. eBay
@@MuddySump thanks!
Great video!
thanks
Hi Muddy: I have a problem. On removing the cam cover to check the valves I immediately noticed that camshaft sprockets do not have the markings shown in your video and it appears that the sprockets are able to be rotated on the cams. The bosses at the end of the camshafts do have a line machined into them - do I use that in lieu of the usual marks?
+Malcolm Bowling yes, that's the timing marks still.
Hey muddy ,done the shim adjustments and reset the tensioner but there is a slight ticking noise from the cam area ,any ideas?
Did you recheck the clearances you adjusted afterwards? Is the ticking when it’s running or when turning it over by hand still before running it? The tensioner makes noise if it hasn’t run yet cause there is no oil in it yet. The engines can make noise too though so probably nothing to worry about
Hey Muddy help me out! I’ve changed the shims three times on the exhaust valves, I keep going smaller on shims, but when I get it back together and remeasure to confirm, I see no change, the gap has not increased.
Is the shim sat properly on top of the valve? Have you got the cam pointing up when measuring?
@@MuddySump
Yes and yes
@@mattberning13 what shim was in and what did you replace it with? It has to get bigger with a smaller shim in.
@@MuddySump
Yes correct. I measure the exhaust valve clearance at .15mm, do the math: .15mm - .35mm (spec) + 2.25mm (old shim) = 2.05mm (new shim). Then get it all back together, expect a satisfying check of my work, and discover a frustrating measure of .15mm. So I repeat, do math again, put a .2 mm smaller shim and still the gap seams unchanged. I feel I must be missing something important or obvious. But I’m quite methodical in my work, and very familiar with the feeler gauge at this point.
@@mattberning13 weird. Is it just the one clearance doing that?
I did the shims with a friend who happens to be more capable than me. Everything went smooth and the motor runs great but the engine light is on. Any thoughts as to why the light is on? We took the tank off again and checked all the connections and everything is ok.
+Michael Bowlds did you turn the ignition on while things were unplugged still?
MuddySump yes. We accidentally forgot a connection, took the tank off and reconnected it. It's been 3 weeks of riding now with no limp mode. The light is still on though. Perhaps the code needs to be cleared by the dealer service.
I want to add to my reply by saying how grateful I am for your videos. You saved me a lot of money. I would like to help with a donation.
Hi: I am having a problem with the cam chain tensioner -when I push the plunger down the snap ring spring wont seem to engage so the plunger doesn't set - does this mean a replacement tensioner assembly or can you get a new snap spring?
I’ve never had that happen. Don’t know if you can get just the clip by itself. Might have to order a complete tensioner
Malcolm Bowling: I managed to fix the problem by bending out the clip a bit and that did the trick. Why that should happen I don't know. Anyway no need to buy a horrendously expensive new tensioner and thanks for your reply.
How you liking the tiger 800 muddy?
Neil Cole I've sold it now, it was mint though. lovely to ride.
Mudd, I looked at the manual to see when cam chain need to be replace, how to check wear of the chain etc but there is no information. Do you have an idea when it should be done?
It has a stretch limit. Can’t think what it is, I’m not at home right now. Did you look in the service book or the owners manual?
MuddySump Morning mate. I checked both and there is no information or I can't see it. Btw, my tiger have 33k miles now so I don't think it needs to be change but it's good to know for a future
@@victheoutdoor6221 A little late but hopefully this helps. Pull the chain from the bike and measure 23 links (preferably hanging from a hook with some weight attached to the bottom. Chain should be under 149.48mm in length. If its over, manual says to replace.
Please, I need change the starter motor. How can I do it? Can you show me?
+Fcorrea2002 it's quite easy. Fuel tank off, air box off, throttle bodies off then you can get to the screws keeping the starter motor on. Take those out then you can wiggle the starter motor out.
Explain why the rear cam sprocket says EX and the front says IN. Seem backwards to me.
Think they both have the same markings on cause they're used in different bikes. Only the line with the 8 on it is needed for the 800
Thanks
No problem. Glad it helped 👍🏻
do I need to drain the oil from the engine to adjust the valves?
No. You might get a little bit come out from behind the crank cover when you take it off. No need to drain it though
+MuddySump great, thanks a million
Where was this kit purchased? Thanks :)
Shim kit? Got it on eBay
How similar is this procedure to a street triple 675
Exactly the same but where the 8’s on the cam sprockets point together point the little lines opposite instead.
Muddy Where did you buy the kit from please?
Service kit is from triumph.
Shim kit from eBay. There’s no point in buying a shim kit. You’ll never use three quarters of the sizes.
@@MuddySump What diameter of shim?
Think this has inspired me to buy a himalayan...lol.
Get a Harley. All you’ve got to do with those is change the oil. Worked there before triumph and wondered why I’ve gone somewhere to do more work for the same money 😅
Hello
How to remove cylinder header?
You need to take the engine out of the frame
@@MuddySump Thank you for this very quick answer.
So just the cylinder head can't go out of the frame alone. I have to take all the engine out first and after remove the cylinder head.
Great video.
BiZaRo France yes.
David! I might have messed the TDC alignment behind the crank case. The cams and tensioner have been removed now, is it safe to turn the engine until I get the dot to align with the line in this condition? I want to reinstall the cams.
Yes. Turn it till the mark lines up then put the cams in with the marks lining up too
@@MuddySump Thank you. One last thing. Once the new shims are in, cam ladder back on, do I need to install the tensioner too before measuring clearances again?
Paul Mp yes, it needs to be built up properly so you can turn the engine over.
What year is this tiger?
2012
Muy buen video😊
👍🏻
Think it is time to check mine have 44k miles
How were they?
@@MuddySump haven't had a chance but enjoyed your video.
Where do you purchase the shims?
7.48mm diameters shims. Can get them from nearly all bike shops.
MuddySump great thank you!!
The manual calls for turning the crank backwards 1/4 turn before doing 4 CW Turns. Doing that has always resulted in a jumped tooth for me, requiring repetition of all steps (remove tensioner, ladder, camshafts, reset...). The manual is utter garbage at times.
I just turn it forwards now.
@@MuddySumpyeah I think that's the best way
This didn’t start did it! Inlet right, exhaust left. Wrong way when you put back together. Bet it rattled and didn’t go away!
Other way around. Intake left, exhaust right where the exhaust pipe is
@@MuddySump I’m having a moment lol. Looked at time 2:40 and see EX and IN on the cam sprockets. This clearly doesn’t mean what I thought it meant then lol. Your reply makes better sense than me haha. I’m about to do this at the weekend, video helped loads. Thanks.
Holy Christ what a pain in the Ass, What's the valve check interval on a Tiger 800 ??
+BeaglePower G 12,000 miles for valves. It's not that bad to do on them. Plenty of space to work
Thanks, still jobs that detailed are not for me..BeWell
Brilliant Job Muddy I would be very confident of doing this after watching your video.
Thank You for sharing...
RSM8
good. thats the whole idea of doing the videos. im going to write a blog post with more info and pictures of the torque sequence etc. I feel it was quite complicated trying to explain it all