Yeah, I think most people have troubles with way oversized groupings and thats why they started putting out rounded mags. To be honest, all larger groupings weren't totally flat when we used to make them,. Each one had a little bevel on the edge. You were still able to use 90% of the grouping when held flat, unlink the heavy rounded mags of today. Anyways, thank for the comment! Let us know if there is something else you want us to cover
Thanks a lot for the visual from multiple angles. I learned to shade with 14 rounds so the circle thing was kind of a nasty habit because of that. But I'm definitely going to try out the shovel technique as it makes a lot of sense for shading with mags. Great video, man.
To be honest, we were freaked out that it actually looked like what Rian wanted it to. Drawing with magic marker, leaning over a freezer, is difficult!
Hey man! I was used to the tight circle motion technique and lately i've tried the shovel method and it worked really well!! Almost no weeping at all, just one pass and it's in! the only thing i'd like to ask is: i've seen that with this technique, i've had to crosshatch sometimes because i could see vertical marks from the mags needle.. if that makes sense haha is there any other solution to that? Am i doing something wrong?
yeah that can happen. Usually it occurs because you are moving across the skin (side to side) faster than is required for full saturation. If you don’t want to slow down because you feel like you’re getting a good result, punchy our mags into flats. Ive got a video on here talking about that if you want to search for it? I don’t know how to link to it from here for some reason💁♂️ Pinch the woven pattern into a flat position by pulling the needle grouping out and applying pressure next to the solder lines while gloved up. Be careful putting the needle back through the tube as it can catch the edges (if you use cartridges you never have to deal with threading a needle so be careful)
Yeah. The overlap is essential because the needles have a gap between them. The 2/3 rule is just to make it easier for people, and so they don't have their nose touching the surface of a person's skin while tattooing.
@@BetterTattooing ok one more clarification I know imma pain. So you push push push move over or just one pass then move. I've had real trouble packing white and yellow evenly. White in particular ends up looking dotty or like a bunch of lines.
@@100octane2 Depending on the base pigment used in the whites and yellows, all pigments put into the skin using a TiO2 base tend to aggregate after application. This leads to inconsistent tones once healed. So, using these colors isn't really a good base to qualify a person's work. If you have having flow control issues, where the pigment isn't available to be tattooed due to poor quality pigment, incorrect technique, or other mechanical issues, you can try: Thinning out your colors by adding a drop of distilled water or alcohol to the ink caps. If inks are too thick this can make available more pigment for the tattoo process (capillary actions - physics) Make sure to mix every pigment that has white added to it for 2-5 minutes. Shake that bottle like a madman! If you are going to be sitting for longer than 2-3 hours, don't dispense every color at the start of the tattoo. Pigments can settle in the ink caps and leave you with a poor-quality finish. See if you have the same result if you switch up the grouping. Instead of using a MAG, try a liner grouping and see what happens. If the liner looks good but the MAG is bad, chances are your technique needs work.
@better tattooing Hi, the shovel technique, what’s the length? If I try it for a cm length you’ll see lines, especially with 12 gauge. Doesn’t matter if I go 2/3 or less to the right. But if I do it like 4/5mm or shorter and also like weeding with a hoe, back to front and back, it packs quite easily. Without the stripes, could be that my hand speed is to quick or machine speed is to slow, 79 hz. ? I noticed on fake skin, especially the 1mm type, if you do the circular technique it gets uneven and you grind the surface. 12 gauge is not funny to see what happens with the fake skin.
There was a lot in that message so let me try to unpack it. Focusing in the minutea won't give the best results. Realistically, doing any of the techniques listed requires relaxation, a commitment to the act, and practice to fit the motions to your ontology of tattooing. If you are having trouble, try changing things up. Take a longer swipe, let's say around 4 cm. If that doesn't yield a result to your liking, move your hand fast, or be rougher, or change the angle, or mix all of those together. Eventually, you will feel something "CLICK". When you do, replicate that feeling and don't let it go lol! If you are using fake skin the results will vary, as the product is not a good replacement for actual skin. In fact, the tech issues you utilize on fake skin cannot transfer to real tattooing, unless you are comfortable scarring people 😳
@@BetterTattooing reacting to first part. Without any visual aid, not regarding the whiteboard, how do you find one’s sweet spot in technique not using fake skin except maybe your own leg , because you don’t want to scar other people and you don’t have a mentor looking over your shoulder? Then basically it takes a lot of time with the possibility that you’re up shit creek without a peddle, to quote Jake Blues.
That is really going to depend on what your medium actually is. To get something looking good on fake skin, you use those techniques - but don't be amazed when they don't transfer onto real skin. As for trying on yourself - you won't know what is right because you have no foundational knowledge about what works and what doesn't. It will come down to trial and error, which needs to be documented well. A person will also need to wait for results to come back after time has passed to ensure the process which results in the best course of application will be attempted again. The time necessary to define each specific application, per product used (for each needle, ink, skin type, all tested in relation to each other, individually), can become daunting when that timeline is expressed towards a functional mastery. Like you stated, literally up shit's creek waiting and watching, all the while covering yourself with crap work. That is why tattooers often recommend getting an apprenticeship. Even if it is a bad apprenticeship, you still get exposure to the craft and enough data to fast track the experience. If you want to focus more on fake skin, then you don't have to worry about what the results are, infections, mentor pissiness, etc... You just have to take a piece and turn it into an experiment. Run a liner (whatever grouping) and try using the same lateral speed at different angles of insertion, line by line, until the piece is covered. Mark each attempt to identify the result as "X" process. The try to replicate. Then try different variables: machine speed, ink product used, needle grouping used - get results and see what you can do to improve off those. Hopefully that gives you a bit of info... We'll make a video about this soon to better explain what we mean.
This gave me more info than everything I've watched after trial and error and error. Figured this out using a 45 flat. Exactly what said
45 mag is not for begginers , Start using a 23 to 27 max mag
Thanks for that, it's a very difficult technique, it's making me a big problem, but one day I'm going to be able to get it.Be good, 🤟✌️👌👊
I’m still practicing, working on my skills and always had problems with 45 magnums for sleeves.
I appreciate your info.
Yeah, I think most people have troubles with way oversized groupings and thats why they started putting out rounded mags. To be honest, all larger groupings weren't totally flat when we used to make them,. Each one had a little bevel on the edge. You were still able to use 90% of the grouping when held flat, unlink the heavy rounded mags of today.
Anyways, thank for the comment! Let us know if there is something else you want us to cover
This guy gives us Gold information ℹ️
Thanks
Thanks a lot for the visual from multiple angles. I learned to shade with 14 rounds so the circle thing was kind of a nasty habit because of that. But I'm definitely going to try out the shovel technique as it makes a lot of sense for shading with mags. Great video, man.
Was surprised how fast u drew a mock machine...then I remembered wat you do for a living lol.
To be honest, we were freaked out that it actually looked like what Rian wanted it to. Drawing with magic marker, leaning over a freezer, is difficult!
Great video with great explanations
Glad you liked it!
Hey man! I was used to the tight circle motion technique and lately i've tried the shovel method and it worked really well!! Almost no weeping at all, just one pass and it's in! the only thing i'd like to ask is:
i've seen that with this technique, i've had to crosshatch sometimes because i could see vertical marks from the mags needle.. if that makes sense haha
is there any other solution to that? Am i doing something wrong?
yeah that can happen. Usually it occurs because you are moving across the skin (side to side) faster than is required for full saturation. If you don’t want to slow down because you feel like you’re getting a good result, punchy our mags into flats. Ive got a video on here talking about that if you want to search for it? I don’t know how to link to it from here for some reason💁♂️ Pinch the woven pattern into a flat position by pulling the needle grouping out and applying pressure next to the solder lines while gloved up. Be careful putting the needle back through the tube as it can catch the edges (if you use cartridges you never have to deal with threading a needle so be careful)
By pinching it flat you will remove some of the gap between the needles decreasing the gap you see
thank you!!!!
So push it for color packing?
Yeah. Pretend you're doing some tebori. Narrower angle than shading, push/scrub in color. Make sure you mix really well
@@BetterTattooing and 2/3 over lap
Yeah. The overlap is essential because the needles have a gap between them. The 2/3 rule is just to make it easier for people, and so they don't have their nose touching the surface of a person's skin while tattooing.
@@BetterTattooing ok one more clarification I know imma pain. So you push push push move over or just one pass then move. I've had real trouble packing white and yellow evenly. White in particular ends up looking dotty or like a bunch of lines.
@@100octane2 Depending on the base pigment used in the whites and yellows, all pigments put into the skin using a TiO2 base tend to aggregate after application. This leads to inconsistent tones once healed. So, using these colors isn't really a good base to qualify a person's work.
If you have having flow control issues, where the pigment isn't available to be tattooed due to poor quality pigment, incorrect technique, or other mechanical issues, you can try:
Thinning out your colors by adding a drop of distilled water or alcohol to the ink caps. If inks are too thick this can make available more pigment for the tattoo process (capillary actions - physics)
Make sure to mix every pigment that has white added to it for 2-5 minutes. Shake that bottle like a madman!
If you are going to be sitting for longer than 2-3 hours, don't dispense every color at the start of the tattoo. Pigments can settle in the ink caps and leave you with a poor-quality finish.
See if you have the same result if you switch up the grouping. Instead of using a MAG, try a liner grouping and see what happens. If the liner looks good but the MAG is bad, chances are your technique needs work.
@better tattooing Hi, the shovel technique, what’s the length? If I try it for a cm length you’ll see lines, especially with 12 gauge. Doesn’t matter if I go 2/3 or less to the right. But if I do it like 4/5mm or shorter and also like weeding with a hoe, back to front and back, it packs quite easily. Without the stripes, could be that my hand speed is to quick or machine speed is to slow, 79 hz. ? I noticed on fake skin, especially the 1mm type, if you do the circular technique it gets uneven and you grind the surface. 12 gauge is not funny to see what happens with the fake skin.
There was a lot in that message so let me try to unpack it.
Focusing in the minutea won't give the best results. Realistically, doing any of the techniques listed requires relaxation, a commitment to the act, and practice to fit the motions to your ontology of tattooing.
If you are having trouble, try changing things up. Take a longer swipe, let's say around 4 cm. If that doesn't yield a result to your liking, move your hand fast, or be rougher, or change the angle, or mix all of those together. Eventually, you will feel something "CLICK". When you do, replicate that feeling and don't let it go lol!
If you are using fake skin the results will vary, as the product is not a good replacement for actual skin. In fact, the tech issues you utilize on fake skin cannot transfer to real tattooing, unless you are comfortable scarring people 😳
@@BetterTattooing if I was comfortable scarring people , I would be working in a shop years ago. Lol🙃
@@BetterTattooing reacting to first part. Without any visual aid, not regarding the whiteboard, how do you find one’s sweet spot in technique not using fake skin except maybe your own leg , because you don’t want to scar other people and you don’t have a mentor looking over your shoulder? Then basically it takes a lot of time with the possibility that you’re up shit creek without a peddle, to quote Jake Blues.
That is really going to depend on what your medium actually is. To get something looking good on fake skin, you use those techniques - but don't be amazed when they don't transfer onto real skin.
As for trying on yourself - you won't know what is right because you have no foundational knowledge about what works and what doesn't. It will come down to trial and error, which needs to be documented well. A person will also need to wait for results to come back after time has passed to ensure the process which results in the best course of application will be attempted again.
The time necessary to define each specific application, per product used (for each needle, ink, skin type, all tested in relation to each other, individually), can become daunting when that timeline is expressed towards a functional mastery.
Like you stated, literally up shit's creek waiting and watching, all the while covering yourself with crap work.
That is why tattooers often recommend getting an apprenticeship.
Even if it is a bad apprenticeship, you still get exposure to the craft and enough data to fast track the experience.
If you want to focus more on fake skin, then you don't have to worry about what the results are, infections, mentor pissiness, etc... You just have to take a piece and turn it into an experiment.
Run a liner (whatever grouping) and try using the same lateral speed at different angles of insertion, line by line, until the piece is covered. Mark each attempt to identify the result as "X" process. The try to replicate. Then try different variables: machine speed, ink product used, needle grouping used - get results and see what you can do to improve off those.
Hopefully that gives you a bit of info... We'll make a video about this soon to better explain what we mean.
Dont gotta knock other people’s methods
Who says I'm knocking?
It is ok. 'Us' is us, obviously. 'Them' are them, of course, but they are also NOT 'us.'